9/11 conspiracy?

[DMBBeav]

I have worked with some leading professor's in the field of Tax, as an RA, when I was working on a Master's of Tax (I will not state the college because I do not want anyone reading this to associate 9/11 Conspiracy Theories with the college, even though the following has nothing to do with 9/11). One thing that I learned from them was to read an article with an unbiased point of view before making a conclusion. (One problem with people is that they will form a judgment about a topic before even reading/listening to evidence presented by someone else) When you read an article look at the data and the research method, then form your conclusion. This book really changed my viewpoint about 9/11. When analyzing the data and the research method, the conclusions that are formed in some of the articles are hard to disprove. Does this mean someone has to accept them as their viewpoint? No, it means that people should at least respect someone else's viewpoint when they are able to provide evidence to support it.


Actually, whats more important than reading an article with an unbiased point of view is reading one and understanding the intent of an article.

A book called "9/11 and the American Empire" seems to indicate that it may be inclined to slant the government's supposed role in the attacks in a negative light, don't you think?

[nitz]

Funny vid:thumbsup Onion yummy

[bothedmbfan]

Probably has a lot to do with the basis that there is no factual evidence to support the claims - whereas the evidence that Terrorists did fly planes into buildings is.



Seriously, if you really think there is some government conspiracy behind 9/11, how are you still alive? I mean, if they can take out buildings on live TV, what's stopping them from shutting down a bunch of websites devoted to the 'truth', or some meaningless (no offense) person on some board spouting the 'truth'?



Yet another of the 'facts' that don't add up

That's my main reason for why this is bull shit. The fact that these people are not pulvarized into the smallest of dusts at the bottom of the ocean, and cleared from any record of existence is proof that it's BS.

[Jake]

...There are a few people with Ph.D's that have conducted research on their own that have disproved major parts on the 9/11 Commission Report. ....

Two things:

1. Don't mistake a Ph.D. for being right all the time. Just because you went to college for a really long time, doesn't make you infallible.

2. Please show 1, just 1 example of something that proves, in the eyes of the Ph.D.'s, that the US Government was behind 9.11

[jmccully61]

2. Please show 1, just 1 example of something that proves, in the eyes of the Ph.D.'s, that the US Government was behind 9.11

Why Did the Twin Towers and Building 7 of the WTC
Collapse?

The Bush-Cheney administration has also failed to provide a
credible explanation for the destruction of the World Trade
Center buildings. According to the official explanation, the
Twin Towers (WTC 1 and 2) collapsed because of the impact of
the airplanes and the heat of the ensuing fires. But this
explanation faces several formidable problems.
First, WTC 7 also collapsed, and in roughly the same
way. This similarity implies that all three buildings
collapsed from the same causes. However, unlike the Twin
Towers, WTC 7 was not hit by an airplane.
Second, the fires in these buildings were not as big,
hot, or long-lasting as fires in steel-frame high-rises that
have not induced collapses. In 1991, a fire in Philadelphia
burned for 18 hours; in 2004, a fire in Caracas burned for
17 hours. But neither fire produced even a partial
collapse.22 The World Trade Center’s north and south towers
burned only 102 and 56 minutes, respectively, before they
collapsed. WTC 7, moreover, had fires on only a few floors,
according to several witnesses23 and all the photographic
evidence.
Third, total collapses of steel-frame high-rise
buildings have never been brought about by fire and
externally caused structural damage. All such collapses have
been caused by explosives in the procedure known as
“controlled demolition.”
Fourth, the collapses of these three buildings all
manifested many standard features of the kind of controlled
demolition known as “implosion,” such as: sudden onset
(whereas steel, if weakened by fire, would gradually begin
to sag); straight-down collapse (as opposed to falling
over); collapse at virtually free-fall speed (indicating
that the lower floors, with all their steel and concrete,
were offering no resistance); total collapse (indicating
that the massive steel columns in the core of each building
had been broken into many pieces---which is what explosives
do in controlled demolitions); the production of molten
metal; and the occurrence of multiple explosions. Although
none of these six features can be explained by the official
theory, let us focus on only the last two.
To begin with the molten metal: Many people have been
led to believe, by misleading TV documentaries, that the
Twin Towers collapsed because their steel melted. But steel
does not begin to melt until it reaches 2800°F, whereas open
fires based on hydrocarbons such as kerosene---which is what
jet fuel is---cannot get much above 1700°F (even with an
ideal mixture of fuel and oxygen, which seldom occurs in
building fires). Nevertheless, molten metal was produced,
according to many witnesses. For example, Peter Tully,
president of Tully Construction, which was involved in the
clean-up operation, said that he saw pools of “literally
molten steel” at the site.
That would be no surprise only if the buildings’ steel
columns had been sliced by the use of high-temperature
explosives, such as thermite, thermate, or RDX, which are
regularly used to cut steel. That this is what happened is
supported by reports that sometimes when steel beams were
lifted from the rubble, they were dripping molten metal.
With regard to explosions, literally dozens of people--
-including journalists, police officers, WTC employees,
emergency medical workers, and firefighters---reported
hearing explosions in the Twin Towers, with some of them
explicitly saying that the collapses appeared to be
instances of controlled demolition. One fire captain said:
"I hear an explosion and I look up. It is as if the building
is being imploded, from the top floor down, one after
another, boom, boom, boom." One paramedic said: “[I]t was
[like a] professional demolition where they set the charges
on certain floors and then you hear 'Pop, pop, pop, pop,
pop.’” One firefighter said: “It seemed like on television
[when] they blow up these buildings. It seemed like it was
going all the way around like a belt, all these
explosions.”
Steven Jones, a physicist who long taught at Brigham
Young University, has pointed out that to believe the
official account is to believe that some very basic laws of
physics were violated.
Given all the features that indicate controlled
demolition, it is not surprising that when a controlled
demolition expert in Holland was shown videos of the
collapse of WTC 7,31 without being told what the building
was (he had previously thought that only the Twin Towers had
collapsed on 9/11), he said: “They have simply blown away
columns. . . . A team of experts did this. . . . This is
controlled demolition.” It is also not surprising that two
emeritus professors of structural analysis and construction
at Zurich’s prestigious ETH Institute of Technology say that
WTC 7 was “with the highest probability brought down by
explosives.”
All evidence suggesting controlled demolition is
ignored in The 9/11 Commission Report, which simply assumed
the truth of the official story. Indeed, after FEMA, the
first agency given the task of explaining the collapse of
the WTC, said that its best explanation for the collapse of
WTC 7 had “only a low probability of occurrence,”34 the 9/11
Commission avoided the problem by simply not finding room to
mention this collapse in its 571-page report.
This behavior is no surprise given the fact that the
Commission was run by its executive director, Philip
Zelikow, who was virtually a member of the Bush-Cheney
administration: He had worked with Condoleezza Rice on the
National Security Council in the administration of the first
President Bush; when the Republicans were out of office
during the Clinton administration, Zelikow and Rice coauthored
a book; Rice then, as National Security Advisor for
the second President Bush, asked Zelikow to help make the
transition to the new National Security Council, after which
he was appointed to the President’s Foreign Intelligence
Advisory Board;36 Rice later brought in Zelikow to be the
primary author of the 2002 National Security Strategy of the
United States of America, which used 9/11 to justify a new
doctrine of preemptive warfare, according to which the
United States can attack other nations even if they pose no
imminent threat. The idea that the 9/11 Commission was
independent and impartial is, therefore, ludicrous.
If the first two reports on the WTC collapses (FEMA’s
and the 9/11 Commission’s) were carried out by investigative
bodies that were closely tied to the Bush-Cheney White
House, the same is true of the supposedly definitive report
produced by the National Institute for Standards and
Technology (NIST). It is an agency of the U.S. Commerce
Department, headed by Bush’s secretary of commerce. It could
hardly publish a report that contradicted the official
story. In any case, NIST’s explanation of the collapses of
the Twin Towers---at this writing it still has not published
a report on WTC 7---itself collapses when scrutinized from a
scientific point of view. As I show in Debunking 9/11
Debunking, for example, the NIST scientists, who knew molten
metal could not have been produced by the fires, handled the
problem by casting doubt on its existence, in spite of the
abundant evidence for it.

The latter is part of an essay, "The American Empire and 9/11", by David Ray Griffin, which is published in " 9/11 and The American Empire" (The book that I have been discussing). The link below is provided to (1) I did not provide all the footnotes that were cited in the essay. As part of quoting a published essay, I need to provide the sources. (2) You asked for one example where someone with a Ph.D believed the U.S. government was behing 9/11. The essay is broken into 6 different parts where the author discusses how the U.S. government could have been behing 9/11. Therefore if you want to read the entire article, you would have 5 more examples. I encourage you to read the rest of the essay.

http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/DavidRayGriffin911Empire.pdf

[jmccully61]

Two things:

1. Don't mistake a Ph.D. for being right all the time.

I thought I hinted at this in a previous post. I discussed that when you read an article, one needs to look at the data and the research method. Then draw your own conclusions about the article. I should have defined an article as research that is published in an academic journal.

Trust me, I do not believe all Ph.D's are right all the time. There is a reason research is published in academic journals. To allow other experts in the field to discuss someone's finding, and conclude if the research is relevant to provide futher advacements in their field. Just because an article is published does not mean it is always relevant or "correct". Also, I have had my share of disagreements with a professor's point of view, as I am sure other people on here have had as well.

[Mr. Vertical]

Two things:

1. Don't mistake a Ph.D. for being right all the time. Just because you went to college for a really long time, doesn't make you infallible.

2. Please show 1, just 1 example of something that proves, in the eyes of the Ph.D.'s, that the US Government was behind 9.11

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...141667399#body

Jake, please read this petition, I posted this is another thread that turned to another 911 truth bitch fest. I think some of the questions raised, have merit. This is the crux of the matter, this would dispell any doubt, because IMO there is doubt. This is from the same people in the post above, Steven Jones etc. The scholors for Truth is made up with experts in the respected fields. You have said you have no doubt about 911, then sign this petition, and maybe the truth will be settled. Peace

[Beefsteak1138]

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...141667399#body

Jake, please read this petition, I posted this is another thread that turned to another 911 truth bitch fest. I think some of the questions raised, have merit. This is the crux of the matter, this would dispell any doubt, because IMO there is doubt. This is from the same people in the post above, Steven Jones etc. The scholors for Truth is made up with experts in the respected fields. You have said you have no doubt about 911, then sign this petition, and maybe the truth will be settled. Peace

Fail.

I think the government deleted the petition.

[Dads_obsessed]

here it is.....

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/929981172?ltl=1141667399#body

[VanHorneDog]

still no video of the pentagon yet huh?

[nitz]

Well done fellas....well done:thumbsup

Who's the new stud in this thread?:lol He's throwing in the 100s:thumbsup

[dre2142]

still no video of the pentagon yet huh?

What holds more water....the lack of a video of a plane hitting the pentagon, or the 100s of witnesses that WATCHED the plane hit the Pentagon?

[jmudmbphan]

my friends dad saw the plane hit the pentagon.......is he in on the conspiracy too?

[dre2142]

Exactly. Its ridiculous to point out whats NOT THERE, and totally avoid WHAT IS THERE.

[Mr. Vertical]

my friends dad saw the plane hit the pentagon.......is he in on the conspiracy too?

What does your dads friend do. Also If i had inside info saying I know someone who knows someone who was told that it was a conspiriacy, would that make you believe me. I doubt it. So depending on what this person does, i would say yes he is in on it.

[Mr. Vertical]

What holds more water....the lack of a video of a plane hitting the pentagon, or the 100s of witnesses that WATCHED the plane hit the Pentagon?

I would say a video showing a plane hitting the building would dispell any doubt, The pentagon says they have it, then release it. Its rather simple, just like me:D

[dre2142]

I would say a video showing a plane hitting the building would dispell any doubt, The pentagon says they have it, then release it. Its rather simple, just like me:D

Forget the video. Are you saying those hundreds of witnesses are wrong?

[Crazy#41]

Forget the video. Are you saying those hundreds of witnesses are wrong?

I hope not lol.

There were dozens of yard workers in and around the Pentagon that day... just like everyday.

So the Mexican Gardeners are in on it too? lol

[Mr. Vertical]

Forget the video. Are you saying those hundreds of witnesses are wrong?

Are you a government shill, I'm saying everyone has a price, if you pay enough (or threaten enough ) people are going to say what they are told to say. So I won't forget the video. If there is nothing to hide, then a the video would dispell all doubt. You may not have any(doubt), you accept the story of what happened that day, fine by me. But there is many who don't. Question, any of these hundred witnesses testify at the NIST hearings.

Did anyone besides NITZ read the petition I posted. Do you think scholors for truth would go throught the trouble to question the official report unless there are holes you fly a 747 thru (pun intended). Read the petition, sign it anonoumosly(sp), if you think there is nothing to hide then they should release the info. case closed.

[dre2142]

Are you a government shill, I'm saying everyone has a price, if you pay enough (or threaten enough ) people are going to say what they are told to say. So I won't forget the video. If there is nothing to hide, then a the video would dispell all doubt. You may not have any(doubt), you accept the story of what happened that day, fine by me. But there is many who don't. Question, any of these hundred witnesses testify at the NIST hearings.



Riiiiiigh. The easy way out answer. Yeah, the government planted all of those witnesses. And they got to the THOUSANDS of people that were traveling on that road and were around the Pentagon to ask what they saw and to shut up the ones that saw a missile hit the Pentagon. Right.

You conspiracy theorists will go to whatever length you can to try to prove your point, no matter how far fetched it is. Wow...this conspiracy is getting deeper and deeper!

[Mr. Vertical]

Riiiiiigh. The easy way out answer. Yeah, the government planted all of those witnesses. And they got to the THOUSANDS of people that were traveling on that road and were around the Pentagon to ask what they saw and to shut up the ones that saw a missile hit the Pentagon. Right.

You conspiracy theorists will go to whatever length you can to try to prove your point, no matter how far fetched it is. Wow...this conspiracy is getting deeper and deeper!

Well you won't believe in government involvment, to many people to keep a secret. But you believe everything you hear, from witnesses who I would think work at the Pentegon. If anyone was to lie would it not be people that work for the government, to protect National Security. You can't fathom that this happened, but in the next breath you know the government keeps secrets for National Security.

I have tried to answer questions that have been asked, can you say the same for yourself. I will ask again, did you read the petition that i posted, I think it is a page back. Actually I will link it again. Read it if you think It has no merit, then leave it alone, If you want to think you live in a free society, go ahead. And if I'm proven wrong (which deep down i would like to be), then everyone can say I told you so.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...141667399#body (http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/929981172?ltl=1141667399#body)

[Tomriddle]

Are you a government shill, I'm saying everyone has a price, if you pay enough (or threaten enough ) people are going to say what they are told to say. So I won't forget the video. If there is nothing to hide, then a the video would dispell all doubt. You may not have any(doubt), you accept the story of what happened that day, fine by me. But there is many who don't. Question, any of these hundred witnesses testify at the NIST hearings.

Did anyone besides NITZ read the petition I posted. Do you think scholors for truth would go throught the trouble to question the official report unless there are holes you fly a 747 thru (pun intended). Read the petition, sign it anonoumosly(sp), if you think there is nothing to hide then they should release the info. case closed.

Good Lord.

End your life.

[Mr. Vertical]

Good Lord.

End your life.

So much info from all you naysayers, good post knobgobbler.

[Mr. Vertical]

Isn't that how it works, ignore post then call each other names, Am I playing right. The middle school antics in here baffles me.

[Tomriddle]

Your charges don't warrant a reasoned response.

[~Crashintome89~]

In 1991, a fire in Philadelphia
burned for 18 hours; in 2004, a fire in Caracas burned for
17 hours. But neither fire produced even a partial
collapse.22 The World Trade Center’s north and south towers
burned only 102 and 56 minutes, respectively, before they
collapsed. WTC 7, moreover, had fires on only a few floors,
according to several witnesses23 and all the photographic
evidence.


These buildings you mentioned weren't hit by fucking 757 planes either. And as for WTC 7, the amount of rubble that it got hit with from both collapses is astronomical. And that building in Philly, it was only a few floors, and it was pretty much contained throughout the other floors. You're assessment and examples don't match up.

[Mr. Vertical]

Your charges don't warrant a reasoned response.

So why respond...

























Got pad that post count.

[chr35919]

What does your dads friend do. Also If i had inside info saying I know someone who knows someone who was told that it was a conspiriacy, would that make you believe me. I doubt it. So depending on what this person does, i would say yes he is in on it.:lol
do you believe they secretly wired the twin towers with explosives too?...and nobody has blown the whistle yet? yeah...:rolleyes

and of course: canadian!

[Tiduwho]

Jesus Christ, the video WOULD NOT WOULD NOT WOULD NOT dispell any doubt. Stop saying this. :BANG


The video would be called edited, it would be called created, then they'd go on about how unbelievably advanced government visual technology could be when the common computerhead has photoshop.


Releasing the video would do NOTHING when you have hundreds of witnesses and each one is easily batted away as part of the Conspiracy.


:BANG

[Mr. Vertical]

These buildings you mentioned weren't hit by fucking 757 planes either. And as for WTC 7, the amount of rubble that it got hit with from both collapses is astronomical. And that building in Philly, it was only a few floors, and it was pretty much contained throughout the other floors. You're assessment and examples don't match up.

Your right no planes hit that building. But the reason WTC 1,2 and 7 collapsed was from fires burning so hot it weakened the steel, thus causing collapse (official report). Yet the steel in the WTC 1 & 2 should have maintained it structure as the fires did not burn long enough or hot enough, the steel was treated withstand temps of 2200 degrees the fires that day burned at 1800 degrees for roughly 1 hour each. This is just the steel in the floors, not to mention the 43 support columns in the middle of each tower.

The amount of rubble shouldn't matter to you as the reason for the collapses were from fire.

You didn't mention the building in Brazil burning for 24+ hours why is that.

[Tomriddle]

So why respond...

I said they don't warrant a reasoned response, not that they don't warrant making fun of your stupid ass

[~Crashintome89~]

Your right no planes hit that building. But the reason WTC 1,2 and 7 collapsed was from fires burning so hot it weakened the steel, thus causing collapse (official report). Yet the steel in the WTC 1 & 2 should have maintained it structure as the fires did not burn long enough or hot enough, the steel was treated withstand temps of 2200 degrees the fires that day burned at 1800 degrees for roughly 1 hour each. This is just the steel in the floors, not to mention the 43 support columns in the middle of each tower.

The amount of rubble shouldn't matter to you as the reason for the collapses were from fire.

You didn't mention the building in Brazil burning for 24+ hours why is that.

What took down the towers was the impact of the planes taking out one of the four support columns on each side. With that happening, and the addition of the weaken structure from jet fuel, the towers collapsed. It's that easy to comprehend. And what's the difference with Brazil? That building wasn't hit by a plane either.

[Mr. Vertical]

Jesus Christ, the video WOULD NOT WOULD NOT WOULD NOT dispell any doubt. Stop saying this. :BANG


The video would be called edited, it would be called created, then they'd go on about how unbelievably advanced government visual technology could be when the common computerhead has photoshop.


Releasing the video would do NOTHING when you have hundreds of witnesses and each one is easily batted away as part of the Conspiracy.


:BANG

Your right,I agree it wouldn't stop the doubt. Popular Mechanics and the NIST report(which everyone uses as the official report around here) had access to footage no one else has. I am going by there report that there is footage of a plane hitting the Pentagon, I don't think the footage shows a plane, and if it was a plane, it wasn't a jumbo jet.

[Sou1 So1di3r]

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons


Proof that there is no conspiracy^^

[Tiduwho]

Your right no planes hit that building. But the reason WTC 1,2 and 7 collapsed was from fires burning so hot it weakened the steel, thus causing collapse (official report). Yet the steel in the WTC 1 & 2 should have maintained it structure as the fires did not burn long enough or hot enough, the steel was treated withstand temps of 2200 degrees the fires that day burned at 1800 degrees for roughly 1 hour each. This is just the steel in the floors, not to mention the 43 support columns in the middle of each tower.

The amount of rubble shouldn't matter to you as the reason for the collapses were from fire.

You didn't mention the building in Brazil burning for 24+ hours why is that.

Why aren't you questioning the architects that designed the building? Why aren't you calling the constructors of the building LIARS that did a SHITTY job?

The thought that a construction company made a few cutbacks behind closed doors never crosses your mind, only the shady government entities trying to cover up explosives behind closed doors.

:BANG

[chr35919]

Your right no planes hit that building. But the reason WTC 1,2 and 7 collapsed was from fires burning so hot it weakened the steel, thus causing collapse (official report). Yet the steel in the WTC 1 & 2 should have maintained it structure as the fires did not burn long enough or hot enough, the steel was treated withstand temps of 2200 degrees the fires that day burned at 1800 degrees for roughly 1 hour each. This is just the steel in the floors, not to mention the 43 support columns in the middle of each tower.

The amount of rubble shouldn't matter to you as the reason for the collapses were from fire.

You didn't mention the building in Brazil burning for 24+ hours why is that.why have there been no whistle blowers? do you really believe every single person involved was bought off? not a single one would have come forward to expose this, the biggest act of treason in American history?

i'm not buying.

[Mr. Vertical]

:lol
do you believe they secretly wired the twin towers with explosives too?...and nobody has blown the whistle yet? yeah...:rolleyes

and of course: canadian!

Yes, 6 weeks before 911, around the clock security (on top of regular security) was added, along with the removal of bomb sniffing dogs that had been there sine 93. Do you know who was head of security for the WTC. Maybe look into it a little more and you can answer that for yourself. I know the answer, and it shouldn't suprise you.

The company that removed the debris (or some would evidence) was a demolition company. And most of the steel was in nice 30 feet lengths. I will concede that there was Iron workers cutting large amounts of those.

And yes Canadian Citizen, born in Ireland. (yes an immigrant, grab your pitch forks)...Thanks for that. that doesn't help

[Mr. Vertical]

Why aren't you questioning the architects that designed the building? Why aren't you calling the constructors of the building LIARS that did a SHITTY job?

The thought that a construction company made a few cutbacks behind closed doors never crosses your mind, only the shady government entities trying to cover up explosives behind closed doors.

:BANG

Well the building held up from the bombing in 93, and the architects have stated that the buildings should not have collapsed. They were designed to withstand more than one plane hit(they had some forethought), hurricanes and earthquakes. This just shows your ignorance, if you looked into it you would maybe come across this info. There is footage of the architect saying this same thing. you have no clue and you keep coming in to this discussion and looking more foolish.

[VanHorneDog]

What holds more water....the lack of a video of a plane hitting the pentagon, or the 100s of witnesses that WATCHED the plane hit the Pentagon?

i dont care what holds more water. i wanna see the video.

[Mr. Vertical]

Why aren't you questioning the architects that designed the building? Why aren't you calling the constructors of the building LIARS that did a SHITTY job?

The thought that a construction company made a few cutbacks behind closed doors never crosses your mind, only the shady government entities trying to cover up explosives behind closed doors.

:BANG

Also what is the motive for the construction company, to get money. Isn't pride in your work or American Made taken really seriously in your country. I think building a structure that could collapse wouldn't be good for buisness. "Hey can I build you a skyscraper that sucks, like the WTC" WAKE THE FUCK UP

[~Crashintome89~]

Well the building held up from the bombing in 93, and the architects have stated that the buildings should not have collapsed. They were designed to withstand more than one plane hit(they had some forethought), hurricanes and earthquakes. This just shows your ignorance, if you looked into it you would maybe come across this info. There is footage of the architect saying this same thing. you have no clue and you keep coming in to this discussion and looking more foolish.

93's bombing and destruction is considered minimal compared to the plane crashes in 2001. Also, the report that the constructors of WTC who said that it could sustain at least one plane attack was back in the 70's where the planes were much smaller, and less faster than the planes that hit the buildings in 2001. Plus, you have to add the massive quantities of jet fuel in the tanks.

[Mr. Vertical]

i dont care what holds more water. i wanna see the video.

Thank you, logic, I know your not taking my side but at least you can see when your being duped.

[VanHorneDog]

Thank you, logic, I know your not taking my side but at least you can see when your being duped.

hahaha its not logic that makes me want to see the video.

[Mr. Vertical]

93's bombing and destruction is considered minimal compared to the plane crashes in 2001. Also, the report that the constructors of WTC who said that it could sustain at least one plane attack was back in the 70's where the planes were much smaller, and less faster than the planes that hit the buildings in 2001. Plus, you have to add the massive quantities of jet fuel in the tanks.

I was being facetious, but whatever makes you sleep better. I'm done trying to change anyones mind, I'm trying to protect my own. You will never beleive what I say cause yoy think I'm crazy. You won't look into the research yourself, you won't believe Scholors for truth and a small number of legit 911 truth movements, who are trying to save you(USA). You will believe a government who has gained so much since that horrible day. I knew by 9:30 am that Tuesday that everything would change, but not to this degree. I'm done with name calling and insults because in the end I don't live there, I'm not losing family members to a war that is not going to end. Bury your head in the sand, if I get more info I will post it but I'm done with this arguement. I hope I can be taken seriously in DMBc, or other threads. I'm not crazy, I just don't think we are getting all the info, and the info we do recieve in the mainstream is so controlled. PEACE no hard feelings.

[Mr. Vertical]

hahaha its not logic that makes me want to see the video.

what the reason.

[VanHorneDog]

what the reason.

i just want to see it, you know probably becuase it is "top secret" or whatever.

but another part of me wonders why they are holding onto it and i want to know what that is too.

im just curious.

[VanHorneDog]

93's bombing and destruction is considered minimal compared to the plane crashes in 2001. Also, the report that the constructors of WTC who said that it could sustain at least one plane attack was back in the 70's where the planes were much smaller, and less faster than the planes that hit the buildings in 2001. Plus, you have to add the massive quantities of jet fuel in the tanks.

wrong, the worlds biggest and still one of the fastest commercial planes was built in the 70s.

the 747.

also it was designed to hold up to a 707 crash (a very large plane on the scale of a 757 or 767) and not fall over for hours.

[Mr. Vertical]

i just want to see it, you know probably becuase it is "top secret" or whatever.

but another part of me wonders why they are holding onto it and i want to know what that is too.

im just curious.

I warn you, I was curious, and to quote a real hero " With great power(knowledge in this case), comes great responsability". Now I'm fucked.

Well I've always been curious and wanted answers. Like when I was 5 " your trying to tell me "god" made all this. Riiight"

[VanHorneDog]

I warn you, I was curious, and to quote a real hero " With great power(knowledge in this case), comes great responsability". Now I'm fucked.

Well I've always been curious and wanted answers. Like when I was 5 " your trying to tell me "god" made all this. Riiight"

yeah but im not an idiot who thinks that a 757 cant bring down a building, especially that building and the way it was designed.

some of those people are just looking for money, some are crazy and some are perpetual believers in things that make less sense.

[chr35919]

you know, maybe the twin towers were pre-wired with explosives during their initial construction.

[VanHorneDog]

you know, maybe the twin towers were pre-wired with explosives during their initial construction.

lol, the funny thing is i dont understand how anyone can even believe there were explosives in the building. when you put steel and concrete under extreme pressure and heat they explode.

[Tomriddle]

Canada FTW

[chr35919]

Canada FTWokay, fwend.

[VanHorneDog]

okay, fwend.

im not your fwend, bud'eh

[Mr. Vertical]

lol, the funny thing is i dont understand how anyone can even believe there were explosives in the building. when you put steel and concrete under extreme pressure and heat they explode.

Explode? Can you give an example. Other than WTC 1,2 or 7. I'm not saying its impossible I just don't know of another example.

Shit I said I was done with this thread

" I try to get out, and they pull me back"

[SmoothG]

One question for people who believe the government was in on it:

* Whose idea was it? Who is at the top? who organized it?

[Mr. Vertical]

One question for people who believe the government was in on it:

* Whose idea was it? Who is at the top? who organized it?

First this is higher than government, I'm sure you have heard of New World Order, it was slogan from Bush sr. There has been IMO and lots of others a small group of the biggest, wealthiest, most powerful people run the world behind the governments we as citizens put into office. 13 families, old money blood lines that have been in control for centuries. Call it Illuminati, Knights Templar, Freemasons, skulls, owls and many others. They or Them. A group meets every year in a different location, last year in Montreal, the first of these secret meeting was may 29-31 1954 in the Netherlands at Hotel de Bilderberg. The Bilderberg Group, is just the tip of the iceberg.

Bush is a puppet as every president has been from the early 1900's on. Every president since Nixon has been to these secret Bilderberg Group meeting before they are president. Stephen Harper Canada's PM also.

So they planned, executed, finainced this and everything else, that we don't even see, unless you dig and sift and look with objectivity.

And if you want to hear something crazier. "they" Invented organized religion, and it has worked in controlling humans for how long. Its not a far stretch for 911 being a more than 19 Muslims with box cutters.

[Tiduwho]

Also what is the motive for the construction company, to get money. Isn't pride in your work or American Made taken really seriously in your country. I think building a structure that could collapse wouldn't be good for buisness. "Hey can I build you a skyscraper that sucks, like the WTC" WAKE THE FUCK UP

Bingo.


Go back and read my post. I'm sure it won't hit you that I said the same thing in a different way though. You clearly have no concept of the American businessman. It's the bottom line that matters.


You call me clueless and are basing this opinioin off a couple posts of mine? You're reading biased material with an agenda, and you don't even realize it. :lol

[Tiduwho]

I was being facetious, but whatever makes you sleep better. I'm done trying to change anyones mind, I'm trying to protect my own. You will never beleive what I say cause yoy think I'm crazy. You won't look into the research yourself, you won't believe Scholors for truth and a small number of legit 911 truth movements, who are trying to save you(USA). You will believe a government who has gained so much since that horrible day. I knew by 9:30 am that Tuesday that everything would change, but not to this degree. I'm done with name calling and insults because in the end I don't live there, I'm not losing family members to a war that is not going to end. Bury your head in the sand, if I get more info I will post it but I'm done with this arguement. I hope I can be taken seriously in DMBc, or other threads. I'm not crazy, I just don't think we are getting all the info, and the info we do recieve in the mainstream is so controlled. PEACE no hard feelings.

And what exactly have they gained?

Trillions in debt? Loss of former allies? Widespread disdain from the rest of the world? Ever-increasing oil prices because they persist in trying to build a country instead of just taking the oil for themselves?

Perhaps they've gained countless American citizens that hate them? Maybe it's the lowest approval ratings of all time?

Yeah, they've really gained a lot. :rolleyes:rolleyes:rolleyes

[Mr. Vertical]

Bingo.


Go back and read my post. I'm sure it won't hit you that I said the same thing in a different way though. You clearly have no concept of the American businessman. It's the bottom line that matters.


You call me clueless and are basing this opinioin off a couple posts of mine? You're reading biased material with an agenda, and you don't even realize it. :lol

I have thought this since the day it happened. I'm not giving you a minute by minute of that day. But I said the same thing Dan Rather, Aaron Brown(CNN)and others, live on air that day. "there is something more going on here, it looks like those building were planted with explosives". I didn't watch Loose Change till 2 months ago, It didn't make sense then, and since really looking into it it stinks worse. NIST report could have covered its tracks better, but they didn't. I don't need to re-read your post it was quoted in my responce. And as you stated The bottom line is what important. 3000 lives is nothing to these people, how many more in Iraq, it's the bottom line. Who's bottom line? I'll name 1- Dick Cheney, he owns a weapons factory does he not. Borrow the money from the world bank and by weapons to kill more expendable humans, and let the rest (taxpayers) pay for it for generations to come. I was 27 when 911 happened. How old were some of you? Honest question.

[Tiduwho]

I have thought this since the day it happened. I'm not giving you a minute by minute of that day. But I said the same thing Dan Rather, Aaron Brown(CNN)and others, live on air that day. "there is something more going on here, it looks like those building were planted with explosives". I didn't watch Loose Change till 2 months ago, It didn't make sense then, and since really looking into it it stinks worse. NIST report could have covered its tracks better, but they didn't. I don't need to re-read your post it was quoted in my responce. And as you stated The bottom line is what important. 3000 lives is nothing to these people, how many more in Iraq, it's the bottom line. Who's bottom line? I'll name 1- Dick Cheney, he owns a weapons factory does he not. Borrow the money from the world bank and by weapons to kill more expendable humans, and let the rest (taxpayers) pay for it for generations to come. I was 27 when 911 happened. How old were some of you? Honest question.

Businessmen are all about money. Making cutbacks to save a buck happen EVERY DAY. I work at a bank, and created the budget for a new branch we're building. What do I then have to do? Go to the Chairman of the board and have him tell "Why the heck is this costing us this much?" time and again.

Again, why aren't you questioning the architects making these claims of what temperatures the building was supposed to withstand? Why aren't you questioning the builders, that said it could withstand a plane? Why can't you think outside the box, outside of something that you can chalk up to "conspiracy"?

I was 16 on 9/11.

[Mr. Vertical]

Businessmen are all about money. Making cutbacks to save a buck happen EVERY DAY.


I was 16 on 9/11.

I'm not disputing business practices. But what is government...a bunch of businessmen palying risk with real people. Am i wrong

[Tiduwho]

I'm not disputing business practices. But what is government...a bunch of businessmen palying risk with real people. Am i wrong

Yes.

You are singling out one area of an insanely large and wide stretching government, as if it is the only one that matters. Military commanders want budget money, but so do your average municipalities.

[VanHorneDog]

Explode? Can you give an example. Other than WTC 1,2 or 7. I'm not saying its impossible I just don't know of another example.

Shit I said I was done with this thread

" I try to get out, and they pull me back"

well concrete had a load limit, when the supports of a building put extra pressure on a concrete pillar it tends to fracture. this can be very loud and can cause debre to be expelled from the fractured concrete at a very fast rate. it also can cause dust to pick up. this is especially true when it is hot, remember concrete is bonded through a chemical reaction. Heat corrupts chemical bonds.

those little puffs of smoke you see on the WTC buildings as they come down are parts of the superstructure fracturing and exploding under the extra strain of the top section of the building coming down.

the building came down in the first place becuase the exterior structure of the building was crippled by the planes impact. the main structure of the WTC buildings (its genious design) was that it was all on the outside, freeing up the interior space for workspace.

however, when you lose a large amount of your supports extra weight is put onto the other columns. Normally you prepare a building to be able to cope with the loss of structure for a period of time. If i remember correctly from the Discovery Channel film about "how the buildings collapesed" the building was rated to be able to withstand a 707 crash and stand for 3-5 hours while it is evacutated.

they didnt stand as long but, it was also a plane that had a full load of fuel. when the fuel ignited a huge fire in the building plus the loss of superstructure becuase of the crash the extra load onto less supports and the fire that started to cause the iron to become plastic it was a chain reaction.

The iron began to sag, concrete began to weaken and deteriorate due to the fire. if it was just a fire the load would have been evenly distributed accross the weaking structure. it would have stood probably until it was put out, or would have fallen much later. However, the entire structure wasnt there. so it fell.

remember, you say these things about other buldings and them having fires that last days and they didnt fall, but this building was a revolution in design and has a completely unique structure. most of the weight of the buliding rested on the exterior skeleton. when that was crippled, the building was doomed.

[Mr. Vertical]

Yes.

You are singling out one area of an insanely large and wide stretching government, as if it is the only one that matters. Military commanders want budget money, but so do your average municipalities.

And from the Trillions of debt you mentioned they get it or have in the past. And that insanely large a wide stretching government, everyone wonders how they could hide such a big plot...Well the planners are bigger than the insanely large and wide stretching USA ,it would be quite easy IMO.

[Tomriddle]

Why aren't you questioning the builders, that said it could withstand a plane? Why can't you think outside the box, outside of something that you can chalk up to "conspiracy"?


Because he's a moron.

[dre2142]

Well you won't believe in government involvment, to many people to keep a secret. But you believe everything you hear, from witnesses who I would think work at the Pentegon. If anyone was to lie would it not be people that work for the government, to protect National Security. You can't fathom that this happened, but in the next breath you know the government keeps secrets for National Security.

I have tried to answer questions that have been asked, can you say the same for yourself. I will ask again, did you read the petition that i posted, I think it is a page back. Actually I will link it again. Read it if you think It has no merit, then leave it alone, If you want to think you live in a free society, go ahead. And if I'm proven wrong (which deep down i would like to be), then everyone can say I told you so.


http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takea...141667399#body

For every "Scholar" that says they can prove it was an elaborate scheme, you can find just as many scholars that say they can prove it wasnt an elaborate scheme.

Ill tend to believe the hundreds of witnesses that saw a plane hit the pentagon, along with firemen friends that were there as well, and a friend that was IN the pentagon when it hit. I was also in DC when it occured. Have you ever been to the Pentagon before?

[Mr. Vertical]

the building came down in the first place becuase the exterior structure of the building was crippled by the planes impact. the main structure of the WTC buildings (its genious design) was that it was all on the outside, freeing up the interior space for workspace.van horne dog

911research.wtc7.net/.../wtc/construction-1.jpg

What about the 43 support columns,See jpg. Your theory
(and that of NIST) keeps omitting the large coloumns on both buildings.so i would disagree with your statement I copied. I asked for a reference , not WTC 1,2 or 7. Do you have any others. I'm sorry to be a tight ass, but I want the truth. You also referenced the Discovery Channel, I love this channel and watch it all the time, but it is owned by the Rothchilds, and you don't want me started on that. I have touched on it a few posts above. Thanks for responding, at least there was an effort

Does anyone know a joke or 2 cause this gets depressing after all day.

[Tomriddle]

For every "Scholar" that says they can prove it was an elaborate scheme, you can find just as many scholars that say they can prove it wasnt an elaborate scheme.

Excuse me, but for every "scholar" that says they can prove it's a scheme you can find four dozen scholars who know it wasn't.

[dre2142]

But I said the same thing Dan Rather, Aaron Brown(CNN)and others, live on air that day. "there is something more going on here, it looks like those building were planted with explosives".

That is total BS.

I was 27 when 911 happened. How old were some of you? Honest question.

What does that matter?

Where were you when 911 happened? On the other side of the country? Should that really matter as well?

[dre2142]

Excuse me, but for every "scholar" that says they can prove it's a scheme you can find four dozen scholars who know it wasn't.


True. Thanks for the correction!

[jmudmbphan]

What does your dads friend do. Also If i had inside info saying I know someone who knows someone who was told that it was a conspiriacy, would that make you believe me. I doubt it. So depending on what this person does, i would say yes he is in on it.


1. To the bolded, I've known this guy for over 15 years.

2. He's a pediatrician.

3. I really dont care if you believe me or not, im simply saying, my friends dad who is a doctor saw a plane hit the pentagon and told us about it. As a result I can say that no "bomb" conspiracy took place.

[Mr. Vertical]

For every "Scholar" that says they can prove it was an elaborate scheme, you can find just as many scholars that say they can prove it wasnt an elaborate scheme.

Ill tend to believe the hundreds of witnesses that saw a plane hit the pentagon, along with firemen friends that were there as well, and a friend that was IN the pentagon when it hit. I was also in DC when it occured. Have you ever been to the Pentagon before?

I tend to believe someone who doesn't have an agenda. I have never been to the Pentagon, but from what I have seen and read it is quite the impressive building. So you read my post as you quoted it, but did you read the petition. If you did and don't think they have merit, Fine I can live with that. I have a question for some of your fireman friends. Did they pull bodies from the sight of where the plane crashed. The reason I am asking is , the palne "liquified from the heat of the fire". Yet it was reported bodies were pulled out and Identified. It can't go both ways. And as someone who was there, did yoy personally speak with anyone who saw a plane. If you answer me yes, then maybe I will believe a plane hit that day...But again I'll just say it was a US pilot who was taking one for the team, and we will yell and call each other names:lol

[VanHorneDog]

the building came down in the first place becuase the exterior structure of the building was crippled by the planes impact. the main structure of the WTC buildings (its genious design) was that it was all on the outside, freeing up the interior space for workspace.van horne dog

911research.wtc7.net/.../wtc/construction-1.jpg

What about the 43 support columns,See jpg. Your theory
(and that of NIST) keeps omitting the large coloumns on both buildings.so i would disagree with your statement I copied. I asked for a reference , not WTC 1,2 or 7. Do you have any others. I'm sorry to be a tight ass, but I want the truth. You also referenced the Discovery Channel, I love this channel and watch it all the time, but it is owned by the Rothchilds, and you don't want me started on that. I have touched on it a few posts above. Thanks for responding, at least there was an effort

Does anyone know a joke or 2 cause this gets depressing after all day.



you cannot really get a comparison to these buildings becuase they are so unique and no other building to my knowledge built like this has been hit with a plane and fallen over.

the link didnt work

[VanHorneDog]

I tend to believe someone who doesn't have an agenda. I have never been to the Pentagon, but from what I have seen and read it is quite the impressive building. So you read my post as you quoted it, but did you read the petition. If you did and don't think they have merit, Fine I can live with that. I have a question for some of your fireman friends. Did they pull bodies from the sight of where the plane crashed. The reason I am asking is , the palne "liquified from the heat of the fire". Yet it was reported bodies were pulled out and Identified. It can't go both ways. And as someone who was there, did yoy personally speak with anyone who saw a plane. If you answer me yes, then maybe I will believe a plane hit that day...But again I'll just say it was a US pilot who was taking one for the team, and we will yell and call each other names:lol

i dont get the "liquified" thing either. considering the nose con went through 3 rings of the pentagon. but, there was plenty of plane debre in the building (there are pictures, i believe even in this thread).

but, you can still have bodies even if the plan did liquify. there was colateral damage. i dont believe anybody on the plane was recovered.

[Mr. Vertical]

That is total BS.



What does that matter?

Where were you when 911 happened? On the other side of the country? Should that really matter as well?

reason I asked was your perception can be instilled at a younger age. When a 13 year is watching what happened that day they would maybe not question why the towers fell. Me being a 27 adult with 2 small kids and had seen and read a lot of shit, i watched the towers falling I was sure something didn't add up. The thing that I found most disturbing was the graphics on CNN. Within minutes or a half hour "Terrorism in new york" USA at War". I realize it doesn't take long to come up with a graphic as I have a background in CAD and computer graphics. It just seemed to easy. Those building should not have fallen from the small amount of damage(reliative to the scale of WTC). I hate to diminish that day, or insult everyone here I'm just can't find answers that are not tarnished. What would 911 Truthers gain from bringing this to the attention o people, the only reason I can think of is so it can't happen again.

I'm done for know my kids and wife miss me, andI have been on here all day

[VanHorneDog]

reason I asked was your perception can be instilled at a younger age. When a 13 year is watching what happened that day they would maybe not question why the towers fell. Me being a 27 adult with 2 small kids and had seen and read a lot of shit, i watched the towers falling I was sure something didn't add up. The thing that I found most disturbing was the graphics on CNN. Within minutes or a half hour "Terrorism in new york" USA at War". I realize it doesn't take long to come up with a graphic as I have a background in CAD and computer graphics. It just seemed to easy. Those building should not have fallen from the small amount of damage(reliative to the scale of WTC). I hate to diminish that day, or insult everyone here I'm just can't find answers that are not tarnished. What would 911 Truthers gain from bringing this to the attention o people, the only reason I can think of is so it can't happen again.

I'm done for know my kids and wife miss me, andI have been on here all day

that was no small amount of damage.

and

MONEY! come on really? i mean... thats pretty obvious. money and fame.

EDIT: can you fix the link in your response to my post, im curious what you are seeing and thinking.

[jmudmbphan]

two things conspiracy theroists cant answer.


Why are the thousands of people who actually saw a plane hit the pentagon lying AND was is Al qaida lying and taking credit for this if it were actually us?

[Mr. Vertical]

that was no small amount of damage.

and

MONEY! come on really? i mean... thats pretty obvious. money and fame.

EDIT: can you fix the link in your response to my post, im curious what you are seeing and thinking.

I googled WTC under constrution in images.

911research.wtc7.net/.../wtc/WTC_ch2.htm (http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/WTC_ch2.htm)

and it happened to be 911 truth site. this isthe link to the site I was referencing a black and white pic of early construction showing the 43 columns.

[DMBBeav]

reason I asked was your perception can be instilled at a younger age. When a 13 year is watching what happened that day they would maybe not question why the towers fell. Me being a 27 adult with 2 small kids and had seen and read a lot of shit, i watched the towers falling I was sure something didn't add up. The thing that I found most disturbing was the graphics on CNN. Within minutes or a half hour "Terrorism in new york" USA at War". I realize it doesn't take long to come up with a graphic as I have a background in CAD and computer graphics. It just seemed to easy. Those building should not have fallen from the small amount of damage(reliative to the scale of WTC). I hate to diminish that day, or insult everyone here I'm just can't find answers that are not tarnished. What would 911 Truthers gain from bringing this to the attention o people, the only reason I can think of is so it can't happen again.

I'm done for know my kids and wife miss me, andI have been on here all day

:lol to this entire post.

I won't even bother commenting on the ridiculousness about how you knew something didn't add up while watching the towers fall, I wil just address your suggestion that the media was now involved in the attacks.

Not to be short, and with your background in computer graphics you should know this, but you can create graphics in under one mintue. In fact, news organizations literally hire people to do so because they want to have the graphics for breaking news! Glad I can put your mind to ease on this one.

This may have been answered, but what happened again to the plane and the passengers of American Airlines Flight 77 if it was a bomb? Are you saying it did crash into the Pentagon or are you saying it wasn't responsible for the damage(a bomb was)? I'm just curious what the fiction is on it.

[chiznaz]

I tend to believe someone who doesn't have an agenda. I have never been to the Pentagon, but from what I have seen and read it is quite the impressive building. So you read my post as you quoted it, but did you read the petition. If you did and don't think they have merit, Fine I can live with that. I have a question for some of your fireman friends. Did they pull bodies from the sight of where the plane crashed. The reason I am asking is , the palne "liquified from the heat of the fire". Yet it was reported bodies were pulled out and Identified. It can't go both ways. And as someone who was there, did yoy personally speak with anyone who saw a plane. If you answer me yes, then maybe I will believe a plane hit that day...But again I'll just say it was a US pilot who was taking one for the team, and we will yell and call each other names:lol


I personally know an individual who was in charge of pulling the charred remains of people out of the Pentagon. He was inside the Pentagon when it was hit. He did not see the plane hit, but knows people who did see it.

I also talked to a cab driver in DC while I was there in '04. He showed me where he saw the plane coming in on Sept 11 towards the Pentagon. Obviously I don't know the guy, but I have no idea why he would lie to be 3 years after 9/11 about something like that.

[VanHorneDog]

I googled WTC under constrution in images.

911research.wtc7.net/.../wtc/WTC_ch2.htm (http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/WTC_ch2.htm)

and it happened to be 911 truth site. this isthe link to the site I was referencing a black and white pic of early construction showing the 43 columns.

yes i see what you are talking about. however considering the extent of the damage on the exterior frame of the building (which like ive said transfers a lot of the load itself in this structure) and the heat of the fire. it wouldnt take long for the fire to heat enough of the core steel to create a catostrophic falure.

these types of buildings are designed to withstand fires and such up to a certain temperature and for a certian amount of time, however with the failure of 1/4 of the exterior tube structure and internal damage poor load distribution was rapidly increased the effects of the fire.

plust due to the blast and impact it would be a very good guess that the protective coating around enough of the steel was blown off quickly. the heat from the fire is enough to weaken and creep steel. with the imense load above pushing down, it is not supprising it fell.

you also have to remember that they dont build sky scrappers like they used to. they dont over-engerner things anymore. you look at the Empire State building for example, its got more then enough steel and concrete. when they build modern buildings they determine the loads and build a building that will hold the loads plus some depending on location. New York city is pretty windy plus hurricanes, San Fran has earthquakes, Chicago has Wind, Snow, Ice.

but once you pass those levels you dont need to reinforce anymore, sure they said it could withstand a 707 and guess what it did, they didnt fall over when the plan hit. everyone who could get out did. I think people are taking the whole "they made them so they could withstand a 707 crash". they did, just like fire protection is made to withstand fire, for a period of time. buildings wont stand forever either, they will enevitably fall over all by themselves.

[Dads_obsessed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Son0BWduQx4

[ShotgunDMB]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

[bubba40]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

:thumbsup My thoughts exactly :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Warehouse21]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

you're extremely insulting to the people that died on 9/11, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.

[Tomriddle]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

:thumbsup

[Tomriddle]

you're extremely insulting to the people that died on 9/11, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.

:lol ok dude

[ShotgunDMB]

you're extremely insulting to the people that died on 9/11, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.

i'd love to know what i've done to insult them. please, enlighten me oh great one.

[TwoStep2888]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

Exactly. I'm a pretty steadfast liberal, and I'm not at all a fan of W, but to accuse him, or anyone else in the administration of being behind a convoluted conspiracy theory like this is just fucking stupid. :thumbsup

you're extremely insulting to the people that died on 9/11, in Afghanistan, and Iraq.

And you, please stop making me agree with Shotgun.

[dre2142]

reason I asked was your perception can be instilled at a younger age. When a 13 year is watching what happened that day they would maybe not question why the towers fell. Me being a 27 adult with 2 small kids and had seen and read a lot of shit, i watched the towers falling I was sure something didn't add up. The thing that I found most disturbing was the graphics on CNN. Within minutes or a half hour "Terrorism in new york" USA at War". I realize it doesn't take long to come up with a graphic as I have a background in CAD and computer graphics. It just seemed to easy. Those building should not have fallen from the small amount of damage(reliative to the scale of WTC). I hate to diminish that day, or insult everyone here I'm just can't find answers that are not tarnished. What would 911 Truthers gain from bringing this to the attention o people, the only reason I can think of is so it can't happen again.

I'm done for know my kids and wife miss me, andI have been on here all day


I had two kids in 2001. And from someone that works in the television broadcast industry now, those graphics can be made up in about 2 minutes. Are you implying that the news networks had prior knowledge of the attacks and had those graphics ready? lol.

Small amount of damage? Wow.

[MistreatedLewis]

god this bullshit pisses me off. it's extremely insulting to the people who died that day and their families, and well as our government, including the president. you may not like the guy, but to think he was behind something as barbaric as this is fucking disgusting and you should be disgusted with yourself if you believe this garbage.

you're cute when you're mad :bounce

[DMBBeav]

I had two kids in 2001. And from someone that works in the television broadcast industry now, those graphics can be made up in about 2 minutes. Are you implying that the news networks had prior knowledge of the attacks and had those graphics ready? lol.

Small amount of damage? Wow.

My favorite part about the suggestion that the media was involved(besides the fact that you can create graphics very quickly) is that the guy who does graphics had to be involved as well. You are talking about so many executives and producers leading down....he just added a few hundred people to the conspiracy right there, all so they could have the graphics up quicker!

[Warehouse21]

i'd love to know what i've done to insult them. please, enlighten me oh great one.

your refusal to admit that Iraq was a terrible mistake is an insult to the troops. Our foreign policy is an insult to those who died on 9/11.

and there's a reason why Bush supporters nowadays tend to be the most religious of the population. It's because these people need to feel like they're being taken care of by something higher than them. The idea that the government doesn't care about them, like the idea that God doesn't care about them, is too hard for these bedwetters to believe, so it's really kind of a defense mechanism.

[Tomriddle]

your refusal to admit that Iraq was a terrible mistake is an insult to the troops.

:lol:lol:lol

Nice one Michael Moore

Our foreign policy is an insult to those who died on 9/11.

And again!

The idea that the government doesn't care about them, like the idea that God doesn't care about them, is too hard for these bedwetters to believe, so it's really kind of a defense mechanism.

Yeeeeeeeeah, conservatives are the ones wo need the government to take care of them...universal health care, state sponsored everything, etc, none of these ring a bell?

[MistreatedLewis]

This thread is so boring.

[FunkyTeaParty]

I don't believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, but I don't get how questioning what happened is insulting to those who died in the attack.

Can someone explain that to me?

[MistreatedLewis]

I don't believe in a 9/11 conspiracy, but I don't get how questioning what happened is insulting to those who died in the attack.

Can someone explain that to me?

Yeah I'm curious about that too. Either way their deaths are completely tragic.

[FunkyTeaParty]

I would argue that the Iraq War is more insulting to those who died that day because their deaths were used as an excuse to further an agenda that existed before the attacks even took place.

[jmudmbphan]

Well, from what Ive gathered, its insulting to more than those who died. Its suggesting the thousands of people, some I personalyl know, who witnessed the plane hit the pentagon are lying and part of a govt conspiracy that killed thousands of people.

[MistreatedLewis]

Well, from what Ive gathered, its insulting to more than those who died. Its suggesting the thousands of people, some I personalyl know, who witnessed the plane hit the pentagon are lying and part of a govt conspiracy that killed thousands of people.

Ok - it might be insulting to those people, but still not to the people who died.

[~Crashintome89~]

It takes literally a minute or two to replay something that is taped. I watch hockey games all the time and before they go to a commerical break right after a goal, they show the replay.

[jmudmbphan]

Ok - it might be insulting to those people, but still not to the people who died.


eitehr way, its insulting.

[FunkyTeaParty]

Insulting to witnesses at the Pentagon.

That I can see.

[MistreatedLewis]

eitehr way, its insulting.

True, but that's not a reason not to raise the question.

I don't believe there was a conspiracy, and I haven't seen anything that would make me devote any time to pursuing the idea, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

[~Crashintome89~]

True, but that's not a reason not to raise the question.

I don't believe there was a conspiracy, and I haven't seen anything that would make me devote any time to pursuing the idea, but that doesn't mean it's impossible.

It would be possible if it was on a small scale. The 9/11 attacks were not on a small scale.

[FunkyTeaParty]

Right on.

[MistreatedLewis]

It would be possible if it was on a small scale. The 9/11 attacks were not on a small scale.

It's still possible on a large scale. It's not likely but it's not impossible. It isn't like trying to add two plus three and getting six.

[~Crashintome89~]

It's still possible on a large scale. It's not likely but it's not impossible. It isn't like trying to add two plus three and getting six.

I don't think so. You would have to account for nearly thousands of people who would know about the conspiracy, and you expect all of them to keep their mouths shut? I don't buy it.

[MistreatedLewis]

I don't think so. You would have to account for nearly thousands of people who would know about the conspiracy, and you expect all of them to keep their mouths shut? I don't buy it.

Well if the above happened, some haven't kept their mouths shut - the people who have spoken about the conspiracy theories.

[jmudmbphan]

you can continually say, well anything is possible, that cant be proven.

sure its possible, ru paul and george bush have been having a secret relationships, and on wednesdays osama bin laden videotapes them while a sea lion performs fellatio on him......sure you cant p rove its not happening, but that doesnt make it so.


thinking thousands of ordinary americans who were stuck in rush hour traffic have been contacted by the govt and convinced to lie about what they saw happend....is just as unlikely.

[MistreatedLewis]

you can continually say, well anything is possible, that cant be proven.

sure its possible, ru paul and george bush have been having a secret relationships, and on wednesdays osama bin laden videotapes them while a sea lion performs fellatio on him......sure you cant p rove its not happening, but that doesnt make it so.


thinking thousands of ordinary americans who were stuck in rush hour traffic have been contacted by the govt and convinced to lie about what they saw happend....is just as unlikely.

Right. All we're doing is leaving open the possibility. Like I said, I'm not taking it seriously.

[Tomriddle]

Anyone whose argument is that some point of view is "insulting" to the "memory of those who died in _____" is someone whose position I couldn't care less about.

[ShotgunDMB]

your refusal to admit that Iraq was a terrible mistake is an insult to the troops. Our foreign policy is an insult to those who died on 9/11.

and there's a reason why Bush supporters nowadays tend to be the most religious of the population. It's because these people need to feel like they're being taken care of by something higher than them. The idea that the government doesn't care about them, like the idea that God doesn't care about them, is too hard for these bedwetters to believe, so it's really kind of a defense mechanism.

Cliche, weird, stupid. Typical of most of your posts on here. Are you a member of Huffington Post, by chance? If not, you should sign up...you'd fit right in. Lots of strange angry radicals over there. Look into it. :thumbsup

[nitz]

the building came down in the first place becuase the exterior structure of the building was crippled by the planes impact. the main structure of the WTC buildings (its genious design) was that it was all on the outside, freeing up the interior space for workspace.van horne dog

911research.wtc7.net/.../wtc/construction-1.jpg

What about the 43 support columns,See jpg. Your theory
(and that of NIST) keeps omitting the large coloumns on both buildings.so i would disagree with your statement I copied. I asked for a reference , not WTC 1,2 or 7. Do you have any others. I'm sorry to be a tight ass, but I want the truth. You also referenced the Discovery Channel, I love this channel and watch it all the time, but it is owned by the Rothchilds, and you don't want me started on that. I have touched on it a few posts above. Thanks for responding, at least there was an effort

Does anyone know a joke or 2 cause this gets depressing after all day.






What do Michael Jackson and Caviar have in common?

Well...to start, they are both black. They also both come on little crackers.

[Warehouse21]

Cliche, weird, stupid. Typical of most of your posts on here. Are you a member of Huffington Post, by chance? If not, you should sign up...you'd fit right in. Lots of strange angry radicals over there. Look into it. :thumbsup

you keep calling me angry. I'm not an angry person. i don't really give a shit about this country or its politics. i have my opinions and I express them here, but in real life, i'm not that political a person.

by the way, how can something be weird and cliche? Think about that for awhile.

[jmudmbphan]

Anyone whose argument is that some point of view is "insulting" to the "memory of those who died in _____" is someone whose position I couldn't care less about.


Isnt that a bit general?

Arguing to a group of holocause survivors and relatives, that the holocaust never happened is downright insulting. I dont see what else it could be seen as.

[nitz]

I don't think so. You would have to account for nearly thousands of people who would know about the conspiracy, and you expect all of them to keep their mouths shut? I don't buy it.


Wrong again. All you would need is the discrediting and disinformation tools the CIA and media posses. They would have been able to account for people like yourself helping with this, shunning any and everyone with this opinion. The few big dogs with clout who come out publicly can be trashed systematically. This makes the argument of the sheer scope of the coverup being impossible, ridiculous.

[nitz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Son0BWduQx4


For shits and giggles...what's the rebuttle on this video? Let me guess, he's crazy! And his glasses keep falling, so he doesn't count.:lol

[ShotgunDMB]

you keep calling me angry. I'm not an angry person. i don't really give a shit about this country or its politics. i have my opinions and I express them here, but in real life, i'm not that political a person.

by the way, how can something be weird and cliche? Think about that for awhile.

Where are you from?

[Lcsulla]

This is still being debated? Good god, how can otherwise rational and intelligent people be reduced to the IQ of a toaster on this issue. Amazing.

[~Crashintome89~]

Wrong again. All you would need is the discrediting and disinformation tools the CIA and media posses. They would have been able to account for people like yourself helping with this, shunning any and everyone with this opinion. The few big dogs with clout who come out publicly can be trashed systematically. This makes the argument of the sheer scope of the coverup being impossible, ridiculous.

Yeah, sure. :rolleyes
That point right there makes it utterly impossible to be a conspiracy. The media is on this now? Sorry, I'm not ridiculous. You are.

[swampdonkey]

This is still being debated? Good god, how can otherwise rational and intelligent people be reduced to the IQ of a toaster on this issue. Amazing.

:thumbsup

[Mr. Vertical]

First this is higher than government, I'm sure you have heard of New World Order, it was slogan from Bush sr. There has been IMO and lots of others a small group of the biggest, wealthiest, most powerful people run the world behind the governments we as citizens put into office. 13 families, old money blood lines that have been in control for centuries. Call it Illuminati, Knights Templar, Freemasons, skulls, owls and many others. They or Them. A group meets every year in a different location, last year in Montreal, the first of these secret meeting was may 29-31 1954 in the Netherlands at Hotel de Bilderberg. The Bilderberg Group, is just the tip of the iceberg.

Bush is a puppet as every president has been from the early 1900's on. Every president since Nixon has been to these secret Bilderberg Group meeting before they are president. Stephen Harper Canada's PM also.

So they planned, executed, finainced this and everything else, that we don't even see, unless you dig and sift and look with objectivity.

And if you want to hear something crazier. "they" Invented organized religion, and it has worked in controlling humans for how long. Its not a far stretch for 911 being a more than 19 Muslims with box cutters.

I'm going to post this again. I highlighted the important words, its obvious no one can read or make a conclussion for themselves. So get mommy and daddy to read these big words. Here we go... This isn't the "US" government, this is the world government. I think there is part of the Bush Administration involved, not Dubya himself. The media, the banks(World Bank FED), are all part of this new world order. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, the freedom we are all fighting for is slipping away. What freedom? I ask who do you know is really free. Free from stress,hate,debt,envy,ego. Do you know anyone who can walk into a car dealership and my a car, not finance, buy. If you do know someone of this stature they are part of it. The haves, and the havenots, Microchipping, PR, propaganda from all sides, have you heard of the Amero, north american union. This is happening now.

Lastly, I stated when I watched the towers falling I had a horrible feeling that this wasn't right, it was to easy, to pricise. I also stated in the same post about Dan Rather and Aaron Brown said the same thing. "it looks like those buildings were set up to come down like a controlled demolition". And someone said Bullshit. Were saying bullshit to Dan Rather and Aaron Brown saying this, because it's documented, I have heard it. If you were saying bullshit to how I felt, Fuck you and how dare.What gives you the gall to tell me what I felt that day. Tell me how you look into your 3 year old eyes and answer him, why did those planes fly into that building, why did the building fall. And he did ask ,he was and is very perceptive, I had no logical answer that day, and the "official report" is a sham. That is why there is a petition, I'm sure no one has looked at, because no refered to it at all. And If you had, it should have been ripe for the pickens of scrutiny from just about everyone on here. Notice how many views this thread has had, not many people talking, why, because the terrorist are winning, fear in winning. And that is something no-one can dispute.

[chr35919]

what's the motive for the government to do this? what's the end game?

[Tomriddle]

Where are you from?

I think we all know that

[Mr. Vertical]

what's the motive for the government to do this? what's the end game?

Control of the human race...kinda like pinky and the brain

[Tomriddle]

what's the motive for the government to do this? what's the end game?

It's not the government. It's the New World Order. They're going to blow up the statue of liberty and turn us all into monkeys! :eek:eek:eek

[Mr. Vertical]

I could see you lineing up for your chip...kinda like holocaust victims thinking there getting de-loased!

[chr35919]

Control of the human race...kinda like pinky and the brainplay again?

[DMBBeav]

I'm going to post this again. I highlighted the important words, its obvious no one can read or make a conclussion for themselves. So get mommy and daddy to read these big words. Here we go... This isn't the "US" government, this is the world government. I think there is part of the Bush Administration involved, not Dubya himself. The media, the banks(World Bank FED), are all part of this new world order. The Patriot Act, Homeland Security, the freedom we are all fighting for is slipping away. What freedom? I ask who do you know is really free. Free from stress,hate,debt,envy,ego. Do you know anyone who can walk into a car dealership and my a car, not finance, buy. If you do know someone of this stature they are part of it. The haves, and the havenots, Microchipping, PR, propaganda from all sides, have you heard of the Amero, north american union. This is happening now.

Lastly, I stated when I watched the towers falling I had a horrible feeling that this wasn't right, it was to easy, to pricise. I also stated in the same post about Dan Rather and Aaron Brown said the same thing. "it looks like those buildings were set up to come down like a controlled demolition". And someone said Bullshit. Were saying bullshit to Dan Rather and Aaron Brown saying this, because it's documented, I have heard it. If you were saying bullshit to how I felt, Fuck you and how dare.What gives you the gall to tell me what I felt that day. Tell me how you look into your 3 year old eyes and answer him, why did those planes fly into that building, why did the building fall. And he did ask ,he was and is very perceptive, I had no logical answer that day, and the "official report" is a sham. That is why there is a petition, I'm sure no one has looked at, because no refered to it at all. And If you had, it should have been ripe for the pickens of scrutiny from just about everyone on here. Notice how many views this thread has had, not many people talking, why, because the terrorist are winning, fear in winning. And that is something no-one can dispute.

I would set your qualifier a little higher. I know people who can go into a car dealership and buy a car(not finance...BUY) and they for certain are not part of a worldwide organization of scariness. And certainly amongst people who can outright buy a car are:

Dave Matthews
Boyd Tinsley
Carter

no....no not Carter, it just can't....let's move on.

Certainly amongst those people is Dan Rather. So I don't get it...are you saying Dan Rather was or was not clued into the attacks? If he was, I'm sure he would have known to NEVER say a controlled demolition. It couldn't be that he was speculating as it was happening, could it?

[ShotgunDMB]

This thread sucks at life.

[VanHorneDog]

pretty much

its funny i actually put up some theory/science that has merrit and it gets ignored.

[chr35919]

pretty much

its funny i actually put up some theory/science that has merrit and it gets ignored.scientific theories aside, i don't see a motive for our government or a new world order(:lol) to do this.

[Mr. Vertical]

pretty much

its funny i actually put up some theory/science that has merrit and it gets ignored.

pretty much

its funny i actually put up some theory/science that has merrit and it gets ignored.

I asked for another example of a building collapseing from fire other than WTC 1,2,7. I and you gave the same info from the NIST report. You didn't give me an example because there isn't one.

Quote DMBBeav-I would set your qualifier a little higher. I know people who can go into a car dealership and buy a car(not finance...BUY) and they for certain are not part of a worldwide organization of scariness. And certainly amongst people who can outright buy a car are:

Dave Matthews
Boyd Tinsley
Carter

you personally know these people. I'm not talking some one who is rich, give me a fuckin break. I'm talking working class middle america. And no I don't think they are in on the conspiricy, the point is no one gets ahead, no one I know does, my dad who has a trade and was making $30+ an hour 10 years ago, and they still lived pay cheque to pay cheque for the most part.

So the options are be part of the establishment, or tear it down, i'm tearing it down. I will not be a sheep, I have seen behind the curtain of oz, I took the blue pill.

Dan Rather live on the air 911 as the second tower was falling, said (paraphrase), It would appear these building were set up for a controlled demolition, we are seeing what looks like a building that was prepped. And how long till he retired. and if Chronkrit(sp) is any indicater rather had a couple years. And Aaron Brown said similar, is he on CNN, I personally don't watch it much I haven't seen him.

You may have nothing to lose, but I do, If this thread is so lame,and I should kill myself,(so apathetic) why do you keep coming back, It's not entertaining its a mindless circle. If it's to make fun, it shows your maturity level. If it' to change my mind, I would need to see more evidence. I appreciate the doctors story, and I am not doubting he told you that, but if you want to talk establishment, money hungry pillpushers I could build a larger thread. I tried to get someone to look at my back for year and a half, after my fourth injury. 6 doctors, 5 did nothing , and I was saved by the 6th. M yfaith in the medical establishment is as deep as my faith in religion. Don't get me wrong there are many amzing DRs, but it not about helping people, its a business. And it all tied together

So lets all agree to disagree. my energy is spent. If I find something I thonk sis relevent I 'll post.

[dre2142]

Dan Rather live on the air 911 as the second tower was falling, said (paraphrase), It would appear these building were set up for a controlled demolition, we are seeing what looks like a building that was prepped. And how long till he retired. 4 years later he retired. lol. Kinda. Hes not even retired. Youre really stretching here.....they have 12 hours to fill while on camera......he wasnt implying that he thought that the building was set up before hand....he was comparing it to a building falling one floor on top of eachother. Youre twisting his words around and making it into something that its not.


And Aaron Brown said similar, is he on CNN, I personally don't watch it much I haven't seen him. From Aaron Browns viewpoint, he couldnt even see the South tower fall, as the North Tower was blocking the view. All he could see was the smoke from the fall. He was referring to WTC 7 falling from the top floor down.....again....not implying that he thought it was demolished with explosives.

I tried to get someone to look at my back for year and a half, after my fourth injury. 6 doctors, 5 did nothing , and I was saved by the 6th. M yfaith in the medical establishment is as deep as my faith in religion. Don't get me wrong there are many amzing DRs, but it not about helping people, its a business. And it all tied together This right here shows how far youll go.....amazing.

[dre2142]

Lastly, I stated when I watched the towers falling I had a horrible feeling that this wasn't right, it was to easy, to pricise. I also stated in the same post about Dan Rather and Aaron Brown said the same thing. "it looks like those buildings were set up to come down like a controlled demolition". And someone said Bullshit. Were saying bullshit to Dan Rather and Aaron Brown saying this, because it's documented, I have heard it. If you were saying bullshit to how I felt, Fuck you and how dare.What gives you the gall to tell me what I felt that day. Tell me how you look into your 3 year old eyes and answer him, why did those planes fly into that building, why did the building fall. And he did ask ,he was and is very perceptive, I had no logical answer that day, and the "official report" is a sham.

I said BS to what you were implying. I was IN DC on 9/11, not too far from the Capitol and the Pentagon....where were you? You want to talk about how I felt that day?

[dre2142]

Well if the above happened, some haven't kept their mouths shut - the people who have spoken about the conspiracy theories.

But no one that was "directly involved" have come forward. I dont buy it either. Its too large of a endeavor to complete flawlessly.

[dre2142]

edit

[swampdonkey]

I asked for another example of a building collapseing from fire other than WTC 1,2,7. I and you gave the same info from the NIST report. You didn't give me an example because there isn't one.

Quote DMBBeav-I would set your qualifier a little higher. I know people who can go into a car dealership and buy a car(not finance...BUY) and they for certain are not part of a worldwide organization of scariness. And certainly amongst people who can outright buy a car are:

Dave Matthews
Boyd Tinsley
Carter

you personally know these people. I'm not talking some one who is rich, give me a fuckin break. I'm talking working class middle america. And no I don't think they are in on the conspiricy, the point is no one gets ahead, no one I know does, my dad who has a trade and was making $30+ an hour 10 years ago, and they still lived pay cheque to pay cheque for the most part.

So the options are be part of the establishment, or tear it down, i'm tearing it down. I will not be a sheep, I have seen behind the curtain of oz, I took the blue pill.

Dan Rather live on the air 911 as the second tower was falling, said (paraphrase), It would appear these building were set up for a controlled demolition, we are seeing what looks like a building that was prepped. And how long till he retired. and if Chronkrit(sp) is any indicater rather had a couple years. And Aaron Brown said similar, is he on CNN, I personally don't watch it much I haven't seen him.



Dan Rather isn't a demolitions expert is he? This is the argument from lack-of-authority fallacy.

[dre2142]

That is why there is a petition, I'm sure no one has looked at, because no refered to it at all. And If you had, it should have been ripe for the pickens of scrutiny from just about everyone on here. Notice how many views this thread has had, not many people talking, why, because the terrorist are winning, fear in winning. And that is something no-one can dispute.


1. Immediate release of the full Pentagon surveillance tapes, of which five frames (only) have been released via the official ASCE report, as Judicial Watch has also requested. We further demand release of the video tape seized by FBI agents minutes after the Pentagon hit, from the fuel service station near the Pentagon, as well as any other videotape which shows the 9/11 strike on the Pentagon. Ah, the famous gas station tape! The gas station that I frequent pretty often....the gas station that is on the opposite side of the Pentagon, with cameras that point DOWN at the pumps. What a shocking concept.

2. 2. Immediate release of 6,899 photographs and 6,977 segments of video footage held by NIST, largely from private photographers, regarding the collapses of WTC buildings on 9/11/2001 (NIST, 2005, p. 81). In particular, all footage relating to the collapse of WTC 7 (including shots before, during and after the collapse) must be released immediately, without waiting for the NIST report on WTC 7, which is long overdue and may be prolonged indefinitely. What will this accomplish? Do those photos hold evidence that the other 10,000 photographs and the other 10000 minutes of video footage dont see?

3. An explanation from Vice President Richard Cheney regarding the "orders" described by Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta in his testimony before The 9/11 Commission. Secretary Mineta stated that while in an underground bunker at the White House, he watched Vice President Cheney castigate a young officer for asking, as a plane drew closer and closer to the Pentagon, "Do the orders still stand?" The officer should be identified and allowed to testify at a deposition under oath. Im not quite sure I understand the significance behind this one.....does this imply that the PA airliner was shot down? It also seems that Mineta doesnt really know what was going on during that time. He says that the officer comes in and says that the plane is 50 miles out, then comes back and says its 30 miles out, and then comes back and says its 10 miles out. Hmm...must have been a very slow moving airplane....as crusing speed is 500-600 mph, which means it travels 50 miles in only a few minutes. After doing some more research, I guess this means that Cheney gave the order to STAND DOWN...which doesnt mean anything anyways as the jets couldnt intercept fast enough anyways.

4. The documents generated by Vice President Cheney's energy task force have been kept from the public. A court case brought forth a few maps that display oil fields in the Middle East. We hereby put Congress on notice that there is probable cause with regard to criminal activities by the Cheney Energy Task Force involving a criminal conspiracy to launch illegal wars and/or terrorist activities. We therefore demand that Energy Task Force document that comprise, discuss, or refer to plans to invade the Middle East, including Iran, and Venezuela or other sovereign nations be released immediately. [B]Lol. A few maps of oil fields are found, and the next step is to accuse them of launching illegal wars? Ludicrous.

5. Audio tapes of interviews with air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 were intentionally destroyed by crushing the cassette by hand, cutting the tape into little pieces, and then dropping the pieces in different trash cans around the building. We demand an explanation for this destruction of evidence and ask that the possible existence of other copies of such tapes or perhaps of written transcripts of the interviews be pursued. All air traffic controllers on-duty on 9/11 should be allowed to testify during a public forum under oath. Seems that a policy was set, and the supervisors had followed it. One would have to think that the written statements that were taken of those air traffic controllers would be sufficient, as well as the actual communication during the actual attacks. How would verbal statements about the attacks, recorded AFTERWARDS, show anything different than the ACTUAL communication DURING the attacks?

6. The Secret Service, which is highly trained to protect the President from danger and to move him to a secure location in the event of a threat, breached its own standard procedures by allowing President Bush to remain at a public location for 25 minutes after it was known that the nation was under attack. All Secret Service personnel who were at Booker Elementary School with President Bush on 9/11 should be required to testify in public and under oath about these events. [B]Now this is a real stretch. Im failing to see the significance of this, and what this would prove. Also, the 3 links included with this one are pointless. Yes, we know Bush was at that school.


7. On the morning of 9/11, some five "war games" or "terror drills" were being conducted by U.S. defense agencies, including one "live fly" exercise employing aircraft. These drills reportedly included the injection of false radar blips onto the screens of air traffic controllers. In addition, the government was running a simulation of a plane crashing into a building the morning of 9/11. Who was in charge of coordinating these war games and terror drills? Who had the ability to issues orders in relation to their conduct? On which screens were "false radar blips" inserted? When did such false injects commence? When were they purged from the controllers' screens? What was the effect of these activities on standard procedures for interdicting hijacked aircraft? I dont see the reasoning behind this inquiry

8. It has been reported that the FBI long ago found three of four "black boxes" from the two airplanes which hit the Twin Towers, yet has consistently denied that they were ever found. Their data would be of the greatest importance to understanding the events of 9/11. This matter must be investigated and the data they provide released to the public. Denied they exist? There is direct documentation from the FBI (And Robert Mueller himself) that confirms that information from the boxes was unattaibable. So theres a flaw in this one right there. Also, a few conspiracy websites use statements made from firefighters on the scene of the Pentagon as credible evidence that the black boxes WERE found........Id also like to point out that if they are credible sources, that their statements about finding airline seats in the wreckage should be credible as well, correct?

9. In the weeks before 9/11, the US Stock market showed rather high levels of activity on companies that would subsequently be affected by the attacks. The afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over trading patterns in stock options. A jump in United Air Lines some 90 times (not 90 percent) above normal between September 6 and September 10, for example, and 285 times higher than average the Thursday before the attack, have been reported. A jump in American Airlines put options 60 times (not 60 percent) above normal the day before the attacks has also been reported. No similar trading occurred on any other airlines appear to have occurred.
Between September 6-10, 2001, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw suspicious trading on Merrill Lynch and Morgan Stanley, two of the largest WTC tenants. An average of 3,053 put options in Merrill Lynch were bought between Sept. 6-10, compared to an average of 252 in the previous week. Merrill Lynch, another WTC tenant, saw 12,215 put options bought between Sept. 7-10, whereas the previous days had seen averages of 212 contracts a day. According to Dylan Ratigan of Bloomberg News: "This would be the most extraordinary coincidence in the history of mankind, if it was a coincidence. This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you’ve ever seen in your entire life. It’s absolutely unprecedented."
On September 18, 2001, the BBC reported: "American authorities are investigating unusually large numbers of shares in airlines, insurance companies and arms manufacturers that were sold off in the days and weeks before the attacks. They believe that the sales were by people who knew about the impending disaster". According to the London Independent, October 10, 2001: "To the embarrassment of investigators, it has also emerged that the firm used to buy many of the 'put' options—where a trader, in effect, bets on a share price fall—on United Airlines stock was headed until 1998 by 'Buzzy' Krongard, now executive director of the CIA."

I have not been able to find anything actually confirming any of this.

Heres some refuting this drivel: http://www.snopes.com/Rumors/putcall.asp
I have read that trades like this happen on a daily basis, and jumps in numbers for United and American airlines happens often. If this was a one off scenario, yeah, it may hold some water.

10. Eyewitness testimony and a substantiating photographic record suggest that a large sample of slag from the World Trade Center is being held at Hangar 17 of the John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City. Access to the slag sample should be made available to appropriate physicists in order to conduct non-destructive X-ray Fluorescence tests and other forms of examination, which should reveal evidence of the cause of the collapse of the Twin Towers. Based on these tests, we further demand two small samples (about the size of a fist) be extracted from this large piece for further scientific analysis. Reference link is broken. Not sure what this could prove though


11. Release of a complete inventory of the plane wreckage and debris from flights 11, 77, 93 or 175 or any other aircraft that crashed or was destroyed on September 11, 2001, including, but not limited to:
(a) the location (whether warehouses or otherwise) of all such items;
(b) a catalog of photographs and videotapes taken of any and all such items; and
(c) a list of all tests and examinations concerning any and all such items, including reports of such tests or examinations.
12. Release of a complete inventory of any steel, other metal or other material from the World Trade Centers, including, but not limited to:
(a) the location (whether warehouses or otherwise) of all such items;
(b) a catalog of photographs and videotapes taken of any and all such items; and
(c) a list of all tests and examinations concerning any and all such items, including reports of such tests or examinations.

I dont feel that any of this is show