9/11 conspiracy?

[UNLTrpt]

http://www.911uncovered.com/

This guy actually thinks the government planned the 9/11 attacks. I can see where people would get very mad at this but I found it very humorus. Take this with a grain of salt people...this guy is dumb and isn't worth the air he's breathing.

[mwjorgens]

http://www.911uncovered.com/

This guy actually thinks the government planned the 9/11 attacks. I can see where people would get very mad at this but I found it very humorus. Take this with a grain of salt people...this guy is dumb and isn't worth the air he's breathing.
i didint read it cause i dont think the gov't planned it. i do believe however that some high ranking indiviudals knew of it and let it happen. i just dont think they imagined how bad it was going to be.

[GLR87]

I usually believe in conspiracy theories, But Im not gonna waste my time with this, You gotta be an idiot.

[UNLTrpt]

again people don't get angry....laugh at the stupidity.

[GLR87]

:haha this guys so stupid

[mwjorgens]

look at how crappy the website is, did he throw this together one night. i couldnt take it serisouly if i tried just by looking at it

[Dancing Ants]

i didint read it cause i dont think the gov't planned it. i do believe however that some high ranking indiviudals knew of it and let it happen. i just dont think they imagined how bad it was going to be.

what? "didn't know how bad it was going to be"? they rammed a plane into a building.

[mwjorgens]

what? "didn't know how bad it was going to be"? they rammed a plane into a building.
but who thought it would callapse. i watched it live as the building fell. its a day ill never forget but the whole time it never crossed my mind. i thought no way is that building falling.

its already established that they had the info. yea maybe it wasnt pieced together but i doubt it. similar to pearl harbor but on a much worse scale. without 9/11 there would be no war on terror and no war in iraq

[Gary]

the osama pictures are pretty convincing

[JonTheRvelator]

*cough* Micheal Moore *cough*

[mwjorgens]

*cough* Micheal Moore *cough*
i guess seeing as what i said made sense, was true and was the chronological sequence of what happened. but anytime someone starts to get at something thats no good.

[JonTheRvelator]

thanks dad.

[bdfresh62]

*cough* Micheal Moore *cough*

*cough* moron *cough*

[JonTheRvelator]

ok.

whatever that means.

[warriors1226]

He was referring to the speech Michael Moore gave at the Academy Awards when he was accepting his award...it was rather, well...uh lets just call it "unsupporting" of the US government...you're the moron.

[JonTheRvelator]

moron?

huh?

:D

[DTRFFdmb]

so they knew that osama was wanting to attack the united states. and they had a very broad timefrime..."soon". theres not much you can do with that little information. if a psychic tells you are going to die, but doesnt tell you when, where, or how, then how in the world can you be expected to stop it? and how in the world can you be held responsible?

[cyberhound]

but who thought it would callapse. i watched it live as the building fell. its a day ill never forget but the whole time it never crossed my mind. i thought no way is that building falling.

its already established that they had the info. yea maybe it wasnt pieced together but i doubt it. similar to pearl harbor but on a much worse scale. without 9/11 there would be no war on terror and no war in iraq
So your implication is, like FDR let Pearl Harbor happen to get us into WWII, you think Bush let 9/11 happen to lead us into a war on terror and with Iraq?

[Jake]

that site is more sad than anything. But there is something fairly interesting that will never be revealed:

the US fighter plane were closer to shooting down flight 93 then anyone will ever know. That comes from the brother of a former Bush admin. official with whom I spent 9.11.01 with. He originally told us that we were going to shoot down planes, and when that one went down, we all presumed that we did it. In reality, The fighters wern't in range to shoot down flight 93.


so, in conclusion, his site is pathetic.

[haildmb]

so they knew that osama was wanting to attack the united states. and they had a very broad timefrime..."soon". theres not much you can do with that little information. if a psychic tells you are going to die, but doesnt tell you when, where, or how, then how in the world can you be expected to stop it? and how in the world can you be held responsible?

yeah really. not to mention similar "information" is received practically every day.

[Number27]

I had pancakes for breakfast...and they were good. Mmm.

[malonestar]

http://letsroll911.org/

[saygoodbye12]

http://letsroll911.org/
That site is great. :lol

Since I posted this site, I have been asked to answer any and every question about the days events. I am unable to answer everything of course. However, I can prove the following, and proving this is enough to expose 911 for the cover-up it is.

1. There is a missile pod, canopy, on the undercarriage of this aircraft.

2. That it shoots out a missile before impact.

3. That because of 1 & 2, it is logical and even obvious that this special 767 isn't the same 767 that took off from Bostons Logan International that morning. This is a fact.

4. That because of 1, 2 & 3, one other 'Fact' is also glaringly obvious. The 767 that took off from Bostons Logan, was switched, and that this 767 you see with a pod, and shooting a missile out, is the plane that took it's place. This occurred when the transponder of the aircraft was turned off.

[UNLTrpt]

http://letsroll911.org/

yeah I saw that link and I thought I'd only deal you one heap of crap for the day and if you wanted to look at another dose of crap...then that's your own doing.

Again people, this people should be riddiculed, lauged at, and then drug out in the street and shot for being so dumb.

[item8274]

did you guys notice the two different osama people? that was the only thing that had any value. the missle thing is a joke. are we supposed to believe that they took off, landed somewhere, shuffled everybody onto the modified plane and then rammed that one into a building? or are they just hiding those people in protection so they can't contact their families?
~peace~love~music~

[boiii]

the controlled demolition of the wtc:
http://enwhore.com/viewmovie.php?mid=797

(video safe for work -- banner ads around it, maybe not).

as always, it's not that i subscribe to these theories, but they are food for thought to some level.

cheers.
ken

[DmatthewsBAND9]

Earlyer this year I saw a video with fottage of the attacks and many flaws with the attacks (like no damage to the pentagon lawn, some items just inside the pentagon were not damaged, the size of the hole compared to an airplane did not match, etc). I don't thinl the government did it, but the vid was kinda cool (it was well put together and was a good 5 or 10 min long). I will do some searching and will try to get a link to it.

[DmatthewsBAND9]

here it is: http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

[Bullsman898989]

"Earlyer this year I saw a video with fottage of the attacks and many flaws with the attacks (like no damage to the pentagon lawn, some items just inside the pentagon were not damaged, the size of the hole compared to an airplane did not match, etc). I don't thinl the government did it, but the vid was kinda cool (it was well put together and was a good 5 or 10 min long). I will do some searching and will try to get a link to it.


You got to think about your sources...Who made that video? Do you truly believe the US killed their own soldiers in the Pentagon and killed 3,000 people in the WTC just to go to Iraq? There were many more outcomes of this attack besides the war. The economy plummeted and the President lost a lot of confidence. Why would any President truly plan this? I think you need to look at this kind of propaganda as a joke because that is what it is. There is not a chance the US planned 9/11. Impossible!

[dmbcrazy4041]

the controlled demolition of the wtc:
http://enwhore.com/viewmovie.php?mid=797

(video safe for work -- banner ads around it, maybe not).

as always, it's not that i subscribe to these theories, but they are food for thought to some level.

cheers.
ken

Wow, just wow. I am speechless after watching this.

[boiii]

here is not a chance the US planned 9/11. Impossible!

for the record, nothing is impossible.

cheers.
ken

[dmbcrazy4041]

for the record, nothing is impossible.

cheers.
ken

Man, that video is the most disturbing thing I have seen since 9/11. Seriously people, if you have not seen it, watch it, then post your opinions. The video is only about 6-8 minutes long. I would rep you if I could Ken, but its been telling me for a week to spread the love b4 giving to boiii again:)

[DmatthewsBAND9]

"Earlyer this year I saw a video with fottage of the attacks and many flaws with the attacks (like no damage to the pentagon lawn, some items just inside the pentagon were not damaged, the size of the hole compared to an airplane did not match, etc). I don't think the government did it, but the vid was kinda cool (it was well put together and was a good 5 or 10 min long). I will do some searching and will try to get a link to it.


You got to think about your sources...Who made that video? Do you truly believe the US killed their own soldiers in the Pentagon and killed 3,000 people in the WTC just to go to Iraq? There were many more outcomes of this attack besides the war. The economy plummeted and the President lost a lot of confidence. Why would any President truly plan this? I think you need to look at this kind of propaganda as a joke because that is what it is. There is not a chance the US planned 9/11. Impossible!

As I clearly stated. The vid just makes you think

[RyienKu]

Definitely makes you wonder. I wouldn't be shocked if officials in the government realized this was happenening before September 11th and could've prevented it if they wished...

But, blowing it up themselves seems a tad farfetched. Completely possible though, I won't throw the theory out the window.

[Tomriddle]

for the record, nothing is impossible.

cheers.
ken

Wrong. It is, for example, impossible for that statement to be true and false at the same time.

[Tomriddle]

Definitely makes you wonder. I wouldn't be shocked if officials in the government realized this was happenening before September 11th and could've prevented it if they wished...

But, blowing it up themselves seems a tad farfetched. Completely possible though, I won't throw the theory out the window.

If they blew if up themselves, why would they blame it on Afghanistan and not the place they really wanted to invade, Iraq?

[DmatthewsBAND9]

Wrong. It is, for example, impossible for that statement to be true and false at the same time.
Not if you are Hermione with the a Time-Turner (Year 3)

[boiii]

Wrong. It is, for example, impossible for that statement to be true and false at the same time.

except that if i believe it to be true, and you believe it to false; then its now been proven.

cheers.
ken

[Tomriddle]

Not if you are Hermione with the a Time-Turner (Tear 3)

Nope, not even then. Even though I have a sneaking suspicion we'll see a time turner in 6..i surprised we didnt get one in 5.

[Tomriddle]

except that if i believe it to be true, and you believe it to false; then its now been proven.

cheers.
ken

But opinion isn't fact. You can believe that something false is true.

[RyienKu]

If they blew if up themselves, why would they blame it on Afghanistan and not the place they really wanted to invade, Iraq?

I can't tell you. Why are you asking me?

The reality is it was blamed on terrorists. Terrorists don't reside in a single nation, you can't invade terrorists. That's what makes them more dangerous.



I just watched the Pentagon video... That one is just strange, lots of unanswered questions there.

[d+ter]

the controlled demolition of the wtc:
http://enwhore.com/viewmovie.php?mid=797

(video safe for work -- banner ads around it, maybe not).

as always, it's not that i subscribe to these theories, but they are food for thought to some level.

cheers.
ken

here it is: http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

well that does it for me....karl rove bombed the WTC. :thumbsdow ;)

[TwoStepFF]

we did shoot down that plane in PA though

[SnakeEyes]

I think might have, and have no problems with that.

[OCMarsh]

I'm sorry, but that video does not make me think anything other than some kids are trying to make themselves known by making a video.

Everything they say can be explained by common sense and everything they showed is to be expected when that sort of damage takes place to a structure. This video is ALMOST as dumb as the "Pentagon was a missle" video.

But both have great music.:thumbsup

[josh101prf]

for the record, nothing is impossible.

cheers.
ken

Exactly what I was going to say!!!

[~Crashintome89~]

So any idiots think that this was still a conspiracy?

[colegibson]

So any idiots think that this was still a conspiracy?



Was it really necessary to bring this back?

[Tomriddle]

Even though I have a sneaking suspicion we'll see a time turner in 6..i surprised we didnt get one in 5.

Good prediction, douchebag. Get bent.

[nuclearcapacity]

If they blew if up themselves, why would they blame it on Afghanistan and not the place they really wanted to invade, Iraq?

There is a school of thought floating around out there that Unocal, Karzai, pipeline to Caspian Sea, etc. Area to the East of Iran occupied by American forces.

Iraq: oil, pipelines, access to the Persian Gulf, area to the West of Iran occupied by American forces.

Incidentally, the invasion of Iraq also surrounded Syria with territory that in theory was supposed to be friendly to the US.

Would it not be beneficial to secure a pipeline from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranian? Seems to me to be a bit more convenient than extracting it through the Suez and having to give the Saudis a cut.

Have you ever seen the video purporting to be the controlled demolition of the WTC? Man, that shit is scary. Put options on AA stock? There is a LOT of fishy stuff out there, and I dont put naything past our corporate masters.

[zdaddy]

idk the only thing that ever throws me off is that picture of the engine from the Pentagaon. I dont remember where i saw it or where exactly to look, but my god that engine was at least 6 feet too small for a 767

[Tomriddle]

There is a school of thought floating around out there that Unocal, Karzai, pipeline to Caspian Sea, etc. Area to the East of Iran occupied by American forces.

Iraq: oil, pipelines, access to the Persian Gulf, area to the West of Iran occupied by American forces.

Incidentally, the invasion of Iraq also surrounded Syria with territory that in theory was supposed to be friendly to the US.

Would it not be beneficial to secure a pipeline from the Persian Gulf to the Mediterranian? Seems to me to be a bit more convenient than extracting it through the Suez and having to give the Saudis a cut.

Have you ever seen the video purporting to be the controlled demolition of the WTC? Man, that shit is scary. Put options on AA stock? There is a LOT of fishy stuff out there, and I dont put naything past our corporate masters.

:BANG

We didn't blow up the WTC.

The I've looked into the pipeline. Just regular, baseless fear of corporations.

[ncdude2k3]

i hate insane people.

[nuclearcapacity]

:BANG

We didn't blow up the WTC.

The I've looked into the pipeline. Just regular, baseless fear of corporations.

Even tough when taken in totality there is a lot of evidence that I think could lead some to think that we had a hand in it (did you know that W's brother was on the board of directors for the company that handled security at the WTC & Dulles?), I think it would have been impossible to pull off. A plan of that size would just simply involve too many people, and eventually someone would crack.

But, it is really hard to explain the "controlled detonation" footage, no?

That said, in most cases: circumstantial evidence + opportunity + motive = shit too horrible to think about.

[HolyCow]

But, it is really hard to explain the "controlled detonation" footage, no?


See: Popular Mechanics

They have engineers explain it.

[nuclearcapacity]

:BANG

We didn't blow up the WTC.

The I've looked into the pipeline. Just regular, baseless fear of corporations.

There is no such thing as baseless fear of corporations. Corporations are extragovernmental unchecked power that have the freedom to operate in a way that a government doesnt. Countries that will have nothing to do with the US government cut deals w/US corporations all the time. You dont think that the US government (or any foreign government in the same situation) would use that corporation as a front for their own pruposes?

Ever study post cold war Latin American history? UFCO and their involvement in Guatamala? It has always been common for the US to carry out activities in foreign countries through corporate fronts.

Ever wonder why the Bay of Pigs invasion was called Operation Zapata? The CIA has always used corporate fronts for info gathering, money laudering, etc. Its just a dirty fact.

[Tomriddle]

There is no such thing as baseless fear of corporations.

Yeah, there is.

Ever study post cold war Latin American history? UFCO and their involvement in Guatamala?

Yep

Ever wonder why the Bay of Pigs invasion was called Operation Zapata? The CIA has always used corporate fronts for info gathering, money laudering, etc. Its just a dirty fact.

God forbid the CIA use "corporate fronts"

[UNLTrpt]

I'm really sorry I made this thread.

But was it really necessary to top?

[Cheekster12]

Watch "Loose Change 2nd Edition" on Google Videos

[~Crashintome89~]

Watch "Loose Change 2nd Edition" on Google Videos

Yeah, for shits and giggles.

[Warehouse21]

If they blew if up themselves, why would they blame it on Afghanistan and not the place they really wanted to invade, Iraq?

the best lie is the big lie. and what you're saying is just edaling with psychological mind puzzles. the physical evidence is the only thing that matters, and it is questionable. Not saying it was a conspiracy, but the derision of people who ask perfectly legitimate questions like "why was there no evidence of a plane at the pentagon (the news at first that day was 'explosion at the pentagon', not 'plane hits pentagon) is not warranted.

[ncdude2k3]

the sad thing is i was watching a guiliani speech on youtube and was amazed at the number of people who actually posted comments saying that he was 'behind the september 11th' attacks. shocking that people actually believe this garbage.

[Tomriddle]

the sad thing is i was watching a guiliani speech on youtube and was amazed at the number of people who actually posted comments saying that he was 'behind the september 11th' attacks. shocking that people actually believe this garbage.

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/youtube.png

the best lie is the big lie.

?

Do you just repeat catch phrases without knowing what they mean?

the physical evidence is the only thing that matters, and it is questionable. Not saying it was a conspiracy, but the derision of people who ask perfectly legitimate questions like "why was there no evidence of a plane at the pentagon (the news at first that day was 'explosion at the pentagon', not 'plane hits pentagon) is not warranted.

On the one hand, you, whatever the hell you do for a living (I shudder to think) think it's "questionable."

On the other hand, Popular Mechanics, actual scientists who went to actual college to get actual degrees and PhDs think that it isn't.

Hmmmmmmmm.

[dowling25]

i watched this thing about a conspiracy on 9/11 on this website about a year ago. i thought it was pretty interesting but couldn't really believe any of it.

[Lcsulla]

I can't even believe this collection of horseshit is still being regurgitated....

[PhishFleck41]

I can't even believe this collection of horseshit is still being regurgitated....

Amen.

[Tiduwho]

Popular Mechanics are just a front for Bush and the gang. They are intentionally lying to cover-up the truth. They are not a trustable source. THEY'RE LYING!

[crashintome202]

i seriously can not fathom why people believe this shit. one day a kid in my school saw some stupid video on youtube about the "cover-up" of 9/11 and was spewing this shit about bombs in the pentagon. for about 30 minutes straight me and 4 other kids destroyed this guy in argument...

[jharap]

Watch "Loose Change 2nd Edition" on Google Videos

No...

[bubba40]

See: Popular Mechanics

They have engineers explain it.

Thank you :thumbsup .

If you happen to be one of those morons who thinks the US had a hand in 9/11, read this book: Popular Mechanics' "Debunking 9/11 Conspiracy Theories".

It honestly pisses me off that some people believe this shit.

[Warehouse21]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/youtube.png



?

Do you just repeat catch phrases without knowing what they mean?


On the one hand, you, whatever the hell you do for a living (I shudder to think) think it's "questionable."

On the other hand, Popular Mechanics, actual scientists who went to actual college to get actual degrees and PhDs think that it isn't.

Hmmmmmmmm.

The big lie is a propoganda technique attributed to Hitler, who thought that the best lie was one that was so colossal that no one would think anyone could distprt the truth in such a big way.

[bubba40]

The big lie is a propoganda technique attributed to Hitler, who thought that the best lie was one that was so colossal that no one would think anyone could distprt the truth in such a big way.

What in the hell are you talking about? :lol

[Tomriddle]

The big lie is a propoganda technique attributed to Hitler, who thought that the best lie was one that was so colossal that no one would think anyone could distprt the truth in such a big way.

Goebbels.

But nice Wikipedia search :thumbsup

And it has nothing to do with the discussion, saying Osama attacked us (and somehow getting Osama and a bunch of captured operatives to admit it) is no bigger a lie than saying Iraq did.

[bubba40]

Goebbels.

But nice Wikipedia search :thumbsup

And it has nothing to do with the discussion, saying Osama attacked us (and somehow getting Osama and a bunch of captured operatives to admit it) is no bigger a lie than saying Iraq did.

The propaganda technique had been utilized a long time before the 1940's.

[Tomriddle]

The propaganda technique had been utilized a long time before the 1940's.

But not that particular method, and not with such success. Goebbels and to a lesser degree Leni Reifenstahl revolutionized propaganda

[bubba40]

But not that particular method, and not with such success. Goebbels and to a lesser degree Leni Reifenstahl revolutionized propaganda

They definitely revolutionized it.

[VanHorneDog]

i still want to see the pentagon crash video... thats just so strange.

other than that this guy is a dumbass.

[comerelaxnow]

some people honestly believe that 911 was planned and all you can do is just laugh at them and walk away

[Dancing Ants]

i still want to see the pentagon crash video... thats just so strange.

other than that this guy is a dumbass.

fwiw, a girl-I-know's dad was in a parking lot not too far away from the pentagon when the plane hit it.

did anyone ever hear the story of those supposed Mossad agents that were in NYC on 9/11 and knew about the whole thing but let it happen so we'd support israel more in their war?

[jiggajm18]

the best lie is the big lie. and what you're saying is just edaling with psychological mind puzzles. the physical evidence is the only thing that matters, and it is questionable. Not saying it was a conspiracy, but the derision of people who ask perfectly legitimate questions like "why was there no evidence of a plane at the pentagon (the news at first that day was 'explosion at the pentagon', not 'plane hits pentagon) is not warranted.

back during the cuban missile crisis in the '60s, the government painted missiles to look exactly like planes. when the pentagon was first hit, numerous reports stated a "missile-like object" striking the pentagon. also, why were pentagon tour dates cancelled for the 10th, 11th, and 12th of september (monday, tuesday, wednesday)?

i'm not saying the pentagon was struck by a missile....but we shouldnt blindly say that there is no way the government would do something like that. because if the government can have the president killed, it can do anything.

[Dads_obsessed]

i still want to see the pentagon crash video... thats just so strange.

other than that this guy is a dumbass.

I had asked the question in another thread: Where is the plane wreckage at the pentagon? I have never seen a picture or video of it. The Pentagon is the most secure building in the world with what I would assume has many, many surveillance camaras, and yet we have never seen a clear shot of the plane hitting the building.

I was told that the Popular Mechanics site would explain it. That site has left me with still more questions rather then the answers is was hoping for.

[zdaddy]

Ive never understood any of the conspiracy theories about the WTC attack. The building was designed in such a way that if it did collapse, it would fall straight down! It fell exactly how it should have. When people say those planes looked too small to be 767's or whatever they were, they are completely incorrect as the wingspan fits the holes that were made (just goes to show how incredibly massive those buildings were!)

The only conspiracy theories i can see for any of 9/11 is the pentagon, and i say that only because of the 1 jet engine that was found, as it was easily 4+ feet too small for what they said the plane that crashed should have been

[jiggajm18]

I had asked the question in another thread: Where is the plane wreckage at the pentagon? I have never seen a picture or video of it. The Pentagon is the most secure building in the world with what I would assume has many, many surveillance camaras, and yet we have never seen a clear shot of the plane hitting the building.

I was told that the Popular Mechanics site would explain it. That site has left me with still more questions rather then the answers is was hoping for.


also, where is the little black box that each plane has?? the black box is indestructible. they found both black boxes from the WTC site. yet they never found the black box from the pentagon.

also, the hole formed from the "plane" was a perfect circle. a plane has wings.

[PhishFleck41]

also, where is the little black box that each plane has?? the black box is indestructible. they found both black boxes from the WTC site. yet they never found the black box from the pentagon.

also, the hole formed from the "plane" was a perfect circle. a plane has wings.

I'll agree that the pentagon crash was a bit creepy, yet America attacking itself is not plausible.

[jiggajm18]

I'll agree that the pentagon crash was a bit creepy, yet America attacking itself is not plausible.


when a government kills its own president, anything is possible

[Tomriddle]

the black box is indestructible.

Sounds scientific ;)

Here's a reason we don't know as much about the Pentagon crash than the WTC one: a lot about the Pentagon is classified, and with good reasons

[Tomriddle]

when a government kills its own president, anything is possible

:ugh

Oh.

Sweet.

Jesus.

[jiggajm18]

Sounds scientific ;)

Here's a reason we don't know as much about the Pentagon crash than the WTC one: a lot about the Pentagon is classified, and with good reasons

agreed.....i'm not saying the pentagon is a conspiracy. i'm just saying that there are some reasons why it could be (as well as numerous reasons or opinions why it couldnt be).....and i think we should recognize both sides, instead of just blindly thinking the american gov't would never do that. i'm not saying this is what you're saying, but alot of people in this thread are saying that

[jiggajm18]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job

[PhishFleck41]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job

... what?

[jiggajm18]

the CIA changed the route of kennedys car the day he was shot.....yet they supposedly never told anyone.

also, newspapers in australia printed stories about his assassination before it actually happened

[Tomriddle]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job
CONGRATULATIONS!

That was one of the worsts posts, ever.

[bubba40]

also, the hole formed from the "plane" was a perfect circle. a plane has wings.

So you expect the hole formed by the plane to have been a perfect cutout of a plane? Like the end result of a cartoon character going through a wall? Dear God.

[Thegravedigger]

Watch/Download the movie "Loose Change." To clear up some of the confusion about the actual 9/11 "Conspiracy Theory." Could be complete bullshit............if nothing else, very entertaining to watch. :thumbsup

[jiggajm18]

So you expect the hole formed by the plane to have been a perfect cutout of a plane? Like the end result of a cartoon character going through a wall? Dear God.


not at all

but it should not (and mathematically could not) be a perfect circle

[TwoStep2888]

CONGRATULATIONS!

That was one of the worsts posts, ever.



Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...
Back and to the left...

:rolleyes

[Tomriddle]

the CIA changed the route of kennedys car the day he was shot.....yet they supposedly never told anyone.

also, newspapers in australia printed stories about his assassination before it actually happened

...im not even getting into this.

[zdaddy]

CONGRATULATIONS!

That was one of the worsts posts, ever.


well considering the very first thing that Clinton did in office was order his personal lawyer (might have been chief of staff or something similar at the time too) to find out "who really killed JFK" Those are words straight from his mouth. I dont know if he ever found anything, but if anything was found, it was never released.

Also, there was a video of the assassination that was recently released i believe, and it gives a much more graphic view of the shooting. IMO there is no way that there was only one shooter, based on the bullet that blew the right side of his head off.

[Tomriddle]

well considering the very first thing that Clinton did in office was order his personal lawyer (might have been chief of staff or something similar at the time too) to find out "who really killed JFK" Those are words straight from his mouth. I dont know if he ever found anything, but if anything was found, it was never released.

?

Bill Clinton wasn't sure who exactly killed JFK, like most Americans = the CIA did it?

Also, there was a video of the assassination that was recently released i believe, and it gives a much more graphic view of the shooting. IMO there is no way that there was only one shooter, based on the bullet that blew the right side of his head off.

There's your opinion, and then there's physicist's opinion. There is no magic bullet problem, it all makes sense.

[zdaddy]

?

Bill Clinton wasn't sure who exactly killed JFK, like most Americans = the CIA did it?



There's your opinion, and then there's physicist's opinion. There is no magic bullet problem, it all makes sense.
haha you really despise the thought of opening up your mind dont you?

[Tomriddle]

not at all

but it should not (and mathematically could not) be a perfect circle

Ahem.


A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings.

Sourced (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=6).

The guy who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings thinks it's legit.

[Tomriddle]

haha you really despise the thought of opening up your mind dont you?

No, I like making conclusions based on logic and information, not crazy theories by wild eyed, rabid conspiracy theorists that the CIA is behind everything from the Lincoln assassination to premature ejaculation.

[~Crashintome89~]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job

Not even close.

Good night and good luck.

[Tomriddle]

More:

Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon after the crash and helped coordinate the emergency response. "It was absolutely a plane, and I'll tell you why," says Kilsheimer, CEO of KCE Structural Engineers PC, Washington, D.C. "I saw the marks of the plane wing on the face of the building. I picked up parts of the plane with the airline markings on them. I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building. Kilsheimer adds: "I held parts of uniforms from crew members in my hands, including body parts. Okay?"


But teh CIA is using teh mind control!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes

[zdaddy]

No, I like making conclusions based on logic and information, not crazy theories by wild eyed, rabid conspiracy theorists that the CIA is behind everything from the Lincoln assassination to premature ejaculation.
I believe there is a greater chance the Soviets or Cubans did it than the CIA, and Lincoln IMO is exactly how it happened.

[~Crashintome89~]

More:




But teh CIA is using teh mind control!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes

AND OMGZ WHO CONTROLLED CIA LAST DECADE?

BUSH SR.

CONSPIRACY!

[Tomriddle]

I believe there is a greater chance the Soviets or Cubans did it than the CIA, and Lincoln IMO is exactly how it happened.

...good for you.

[Tomriddle]

AND OMGZ WHO CONTROLLED CIA LAST DECADE?

BUSH SR.

CONSPIRACY!

:eek:eek:eek:eek OMGz!!!!!!

No bBluD 4 OiL!

BiGBrOthErIzWatCHiN!

[Thegravedigger]

Well, aside from the Conspiracy Theories on 9/11 and JFK being complete and utter bullshit to some of you, entertain this question for a moment:

Where the FUCK are our "Weapons of Mass Destruction?" They must be in Iran because they're definetly NOT in Iraq! Just out of curiosity. Seems like a pretty legitimate question .................... I could be wrong.

[TwoStep2888]

:eek:eek:eek:eek OMGz!!!!!!

No bBluD 4 OiL!

BiGBrOthErIzWatCHiN!

Teh bUSh KilED JKF!!1

[~Crashintome89~]

Well, aside from the Conspiracy Theories on 9/11 and JFK being complete and utter bullshit to some of you, entertain this question for a moment:

Where the FUCK are our "Weapons of Mass Destruction?" They must be in Iran because they're definetly NOT in Iraq! Just out of curiosity. Seems like a pretty legitimate question .................... I could be wrong.

Not there. It was faulty intelligence. I'll give this country the benefit of the doubt though because it's not like others, which are completely fucked up.

[Tomriddle]

Where the FUCK are our "Weapons of Mass Destruction?" They must be in Iran because they're definetly NOT in Iraq! Just out of curiosity. Seems like a pretty legitimate question .................... I could be wrong.


Syria is more likely than Iran, but please direct that question to the numerous high ranking Democrats who said Saddam was building WMDs in the 90s and to the intelligence agencies of numerous nations

my belief? saddam's bluff that he had them was too effective for his own good. also, i believe bush exaggerated the evidence somewhat, though he did not fabricate anything or engage in acts of intellectual dishonesty

[Smoke/Mirrors]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job
(you do know that there are numerous holes in every conspiracy theory about that don't you? its not as clear cut as you think, tinkerbell.)

[PhishFleck41]

I, personally, think the 9/11 conspiracy is false.

However, playing devils advocate, if the American Gov't did "stage" this and called for the demolition of the said towers, aren't they playing it off perfectly? There's no better way to deal with a controversial topic that might have a few truths than to not do anything about some videos on the internet. The gov't can debunk the whole conspiracy by implementing "Popular Mechanics", a well known, intelligent magazine to take down "Loose Change".

What I am proposing as "devil's advocate" is almost as far-fetched as the whole conspiracy theory, thus I thoroughly believe that it could not have happened.

/endrant.

[Tomriddle]

However, playing devils advocate, if the American Gov't did "stage" this and called for the demolition of the said towers, aren't they playing it off perfectly?

Since that's exactly what they'd do if they didn't come up with it to, that's not really a valid point

[jiggajm18]

(you do know that there are numerous holes in every conspiracy theory about that don't you? its not as clear cut as you think, tinkerbell.)

i absolutely agree with you.....however, i also think that blind faith is unintelligent. why not question the government? goverments have lied to its people in the past, and they will continue to do so. the way to make sure they lie as little as possible, or get caught lying, is to question them

[Tomriddle]

Great. Believe crap that makes no sense or you're a sheep. Fantastic.

[VanHorneDog]

I had asked the question in another thread: Where is the plane wreckage at the pentagon? I have never seen a picture or video of it. The Pentagon is the most secure building in the world with what I would assume has many, many surveillance camaras, and yet we have never seen a clear shot of the plane hitting the building.

I was told that the Popular Mechanics site would explain it. That site has left me with still more questions rather then the answers is was hoping for.

its there, supposidly the explosion destroyed the plane... im just not convinced. its just so strange.

all they would have to do is show us the videos from countless sercurity cameras from sites off the pentagon lot. there is a 7/11 i think that actually aims one of its security cameras right in the line of where the hit was. FBI agents where there in minutes to get the videos. they probably already new about all the cameras on the pentagon in case something like this happend. but why cant we see them?

i mean im pretty imune now to the sight of seeing plans hit buildings. why is it classified, we know it happend, they told us how. but they cant show us?

its like saying, look we have this stealth plane, it blew up this building. it flys at 453 mph and is the size of an A-4. looks like a big black triangle. but you cant see it, becuase you might find something out.

[Dads_obsessed]

Its these sorts of claims by PM that have me scratching my head. Like I said before, I want PM to give me the answers, but the following just leaves me even more confused:


"What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass."

A solid crashes into another solid and turns to liquid??!?

"The tidy hole in Ring C (http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0305911-pentagon-lg.jpg) was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage."

Landing gear? Were the terriorists trying to land the plane? Wouldn't the landing gear be closed?


Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer (who) was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon says: "I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building."

Why not shut up all the conspiracy theorists and show the photos?


...is this really the best they could do for a pic of the wreckage?

http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0305911-flight77-lg.jpg

It might be wroth noting, however relevant it may or may not be, that Benjamin Chertoff, the "senior researcher" at Popular Mechanics who is behind the article, is none other than a cousin of Michael Chertoff, the Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, not be any means. But I think that there are very real and valid questions that need to be asked, and so far I can't find the answers I'm looking for.

[bubba40]

Watch/Download the movie "Loose Change." To clear up some of the confusion about the actual 9/11 "Conspiracy Theory." Could be complete bullshit............if nothing else, very entertaining to watch. :thumbsup

It's complete bullshit.

[Tomriddle]

"What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass."

A solid crashes into another solid and turns to liquid??!?

No shit, Sherlock. It's called heat.

"The tidy hole in Ring C (http://media.popularmechanics.com/images/0305911-pentagon-lg.jpg) was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage."

Landing gear? Were the terriorists trying to land the plane? Wouldn't the landing gear be closed?

Perhaps it happens automatically it was shooting down that fast or perhaps they just don't know what they're doing.


Blast expert Allyn E. Kilsheimer (who) was the first structural engineer to arrive at the Pentagon says: "I held in my hand the tail section of the plane, and I found the black box." Kilsheimer's eyewitness account is backed up by photos of plane wreckage inside and outside the building."

Why not shut up all the conspiracy theorists and show the photos?

Because we care a hell of a lot more about maintaining the confedentiality of the Pentagon than shutting up a couple of loonies that most people are to smart to pay attention to

[Teddy KGB]

No overt conspiracy, no.

Regarding those who carried out the tragedy, I still think it was more than their supposed "hatred of freedom" which caused them to spend 5 years planning the attacks.

So am I saying I think the U.S. governments of the recent past and present are in part responsible for 9/11? Yes. But only on a foreign policy level. It pissed those 19 guys off and they struck back at what they understood to be the enemy. In their mind it was tit for tat. The U.S. government supports actions which hurt their citizenry of their respective nations and so did they direct harmful actives toward the U.S..

I don't agree with their thinking, but there you have it. They weren't cowards either. They were believers willing to give their lives for their cause. You gotta at least admire their conviction. Now if only they'd done something different with them...

[Dads_obsessed]

No shit, Sherlock. It's called heat.



Perhaps it happens automatically it was shooting down that fast or perhaps they just don't know what they're doing.




Because we care a hell of a lot more about maintaining the confedentiality of the Pentagon than shutting up a couple of loonies that most people are to smart to pay attention to


Heat turns jumbo jets into liquid....uh huh, ya.

A picture of somebody holding a tail section would give up Pentagon confedentiality........sure.

Anybody else wanna try?

[Tomriddle]

Heat turns jumbo jets into liquid....uh huh, ya.

And how many degrees in physics do you hold? More than the people who have come to that conclusion?

A picture of somebody holding a tail section would give up Pentagon confedentiality........sure.

Sometimes protocal needs to be followed even when it doesn't make too much sense

[crashintome202]

everyone here has it wrong. there was no plane. those images on the camera where hand draw by Bush himself. the people who "claimed" to have seen the plane hit the pentagon-brainwashed. So what happened to the plane? shot down in the Atlantic ocean where a ship full of fisherman saw the whole thing happen. then, the pilots turned the missiles on the boat and blew it up.

[~Crashintome89~]

i absolutely agree with you.....however, i also think that blind faith is unintelligent. why not question the government? goverments have lied to its people in the past, and they will continue to do so. the way to make sure they lie as little as possible, or get caught lying, is to question them

Because it doesn't a) add up b) make sense.

[zdaddy]

Because it doesn't a) add up b) make sense.
I think it was Dave Matthews himself who said something along the lines of "The government has failed when it has gained complete trust from the people." Take that as you will, its always good to be open minded and look at all sides of an issue no matter how ridiculous or erroneous they may be.

[VanHorneDog]

Heat turns jumbo jets into liquid....uh huh, ya.


are you (removed for inflamitory reasons)?

there are 4 possibly 5 states of elements in the universe that we know of.

(bulian solid), Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma

when you heat somethign up, they go through something called phase change. so a jumbo jet (solid) would MELT into liquid. unless it skips the process and goes straight to gas, but aluminium isnt easy to get to gas, that would take a large amount of heat.

so yeah jumbo jets can turn into liquid very easily with just heat.

that said, i dont think there is enough heat in a plane crash to generate enough temperature change to turn the whole thing to liquid, surely not enough to vaporize. the aluminium could have heated enough to become plastic and change form so much its not recognizable. this is probably what happend with the majority of the plane. so it was in there, just it didnt look like a plan anymore becuase it was transformed by a lot of heat and pressure.

[~Crashintome89~]

People are stupid, Alex.

[dre2142]

Well......anyone see pics of the freeway collapse in San Fran area from Sunday night?

Anyone hear the conspiracy theorists claiming that no fire could weaken the steel of the WTC to the extent that they did?

Well, there goes THAT theory.

[dre2142]

Goebbels.

But nice Wikipedia search :thumbsup

And it has nothing to do with the discussion, saying Osama attacked us (and somehow getting Osama and a bunch of captured operatives to admit it) is no bigger a lie than saying Iraq did.


......

[jiggajm18]

Because it doesn't a) add up b) make sense.

there are some unanswered questions, that people continue to ignore:

1. why wasnt the black box found? it was found at both WTC sites and in PA, yet the gov't has never acknowledged finding the black box at the pentagon

2. why were the pentagon tour dates closed on sept 10, 11, 12?

3. is it more than coincidental that rumsfeld was on the opposite side of the building when the planes hit?

also, it is known that our gov't painted missiles to look like planes during the cuban missile crisis.

and some mathematicians/physicists have said there is no way a plane could make a perfect hole in the side of the building. even if one part of the wing fell off, and the other slammed into the building, it still shouldnt be a perfect hole.

until someone can answer these questions, which i have continued to ask and people have continued to ignore (particularly # 1 and # 2), i will continue to question what actually happened

[dre2142]

there are some unanswered questions, that people continue to ignore:

1. why wasnt the black box found? it was found at both WTC sites and in PA, yet the gov't has never acknowledged finding the black box at the pentagon

Show me some documentation that says that the black box has not been found


2. why were the pentagon tour dates closed on sept 10, 11, 12? Again, show me some evidence that says the tour dates were closed. Then, compile a list of all of the other days in 2001 that the tour dates were closed.
If you can prove that the tour dates were closed those three days.....and that those were the only three days in the entire year that were closed to tours, this question may hold some water.

3. is it more than coincidental that rumsfeld was on the opposite side of the building when the planes hit? Now thats just a stupid question. We're not talking about a McDonalds here...we're talking about the largest business building in the world. Him being on the other side of the building doesnt mean shit.

also, it is known that our gov't painted missiles to look like planes during the cuban missile crisis. Annnnnnnnddddddddd?

and some mathematicians/physicists have said there is no way a plane could make a perfect hole in the side of the building. even if one part of the wing fell off, and the other slammed into the building, it still shouldnt be a perfect hole. The picture of the "perfect hole" is not on the outer shell of the building......its on one of the inner shells, which was made by the firefighters gaining access into the building.

until someone can answer these questions, which i have continued to ask and people have continued to ignore (particularly # 1 and # 2), i will continue to question what actually happened

Cool. Now answer mine.

[jiggajm18]

1. excuse me for being misinformed, i was told by one of my poly sci profs (who himself must be misinformed) that the black boxes were missing. actually, they were found, however, they were so badly burned that nothing useful came from them. this article still doesnt change my belief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1543564.stm

my point about the missile is that some people believe a missile painted like a plane struck the pentagon. since the gov't has done so in the past, i see no reason it wouldn't be able to do so today

[dre2142]

1. excuse me for being misinformed, i was told by one of my poly sci profs (who himself must be misinformed) that the black boxes were missing. actually, they were found, however, they were so badly burned that nothing useful came from them. this article still doesnt change my belief.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1543564.stm

my point about the missile is that some people believe a missile painted like a plane struck the pentagon. since the gov't has done so in the past, i see no reason it wouldn't be able to do so today

And I guess the many many witnesses that saw a large plane with wings fly over them were brainwashed.

You did not answer my other questions...something that you pointed out about everyone else.

[zdaddy]

also, it is known that our gov't painted missiles to look like planes during the cuban missile crisis.
If it was actually a missile, that whole section of the pentagon would have been wiped away!

[Tiduwho]

and some mathematicians/physicists have said there is no way a plane could make a perfect hole in the side of the building. even if one part of the wing fell off, and the other slammed into the building, it still shouldnt be a perfect hole.


Tell me, would a missile make a perfect circle into a building and then keep going circle after circle through walls?


A fucking missile that fucking explodes and blows shit up? :ugh

[Lcsulla]

This administration was in office 9 months before this happened. Call me a skeptic but I do not believe they are competent or efficient enough to plan, pull off, and cover up something of this magnitude in that timeframe. I don't believe they could have, there is just too much bureaucracy to achieve it and it would require too many people to keep quiet unless they were executed which also might be noticed. Plus, they also had so many resources going into assassinating Chavez (if you believe in conspiracies) it would have further hamstrung them. The best spooks in the cold war (on both sides) could not have pulled this off in 5 years even if given complete autonomy and no oversight - which leads me to the conclusion that there is just no way in hell this administration could have done all that in 9 months.

[Tiduwho]

This administration was in office 9 months before this happened. Call me a skeptic but I do not believe they are competent or efficient enough to plan, pull off, and cover up something of this magnitude in that timeframe. I don't believe they could have, there is just too much bureaucracy to achieve it and it would require too many people to keep quiet unless they were executed which also might be noticed. Plus, they also had so many resources going into assassinating Chavez (if you believe in conspiracies) it would have further hamstrung them. The best spooks in the cold war (on both sides) could not have pulled this off in 5 years even if given complete autonomy and no oversight - which leads me to the conclusion that there is just no way in hell this administration could have done all that in 9 months.

That's because they were planning it years in advance! Things almost didn't go according to plan, so Jeb Bush had to fix the voting results in Florida! This planning was started by Bush Sr. and was put into the hands of W to carry out!!

[TwoStep2888]

That's because they were planning it years in advance! Things almost didn't go according to plan, so Jeb Bush had to fix the voting results in Florida! This planning was started by Bush Sr. and was put into the hands of W to carry out!!

Actually, "evidence" suggests that Andrew Johnson was the one who originally thought up 9/11, and that he killed Lincoln, and framed Booth, because both were suspicious of Johnson's crimes.

[Tomriddle]

this article still doesnt change my belief.


Out of curiosity, what information could come to light that will change your beliefs?

[comerelaxnow]

well if you knew the facts about kennedy, you would know it had to have been an inside job


:BANG

you and rosie o'donnell would have a great time together

[hotniks160]

I think one of the best arguments for why 9/11 was a conspiracy is this: One of the world trade center buildings did not collapse during the initial attack. im not talking about one of the towers, but one of the surrounding buildings filled with small offices and such. the government decided that one surviving building had to be brought down so they brought in a demolition expert, on 9/11, and brought the building down using tnt.

Now, either this demolition expert set an unbreakable world record for setting up TNT into a relatively large building to bring it down and took all the safe measurements in mere hours when it takes months to plan such a thing, or the tnt was set up in the building prior to 9/11...you decide

[comerelaxnow]

That's because they were planning it years in advance! Things almost didn't go according to plan, so Jeb Bush had to fix the voting results in Florida! This planning was started by Bush Sr. and was put into the hands of W to carry out!!




what a load of crap....:thumbsdow

[jiggajm18]

believe what you want.....b/c of some of our countries actions in the past, i choose to question the gov't, and will continue to do so

[Tomriddle]

I think one of the best arguments for why 9/11 was a conspiracy is this: One of the world trade center buildings did not collapse during the initial attack. im not talking about one of the towers, but one of the surrounding buildings filled with small offices and such. the government decided that one surviving building had to be brought down so they brought in a demolition expert, on 9/11, and brought the building down using tnt.

Now, either this demolition expert set an unbreakable world record for setting up TNT into a relatively large building to bring it down and took all the safe measurements in mere hours when it takes months to plan such a thing, or the tnt was set up in the building prior to 9/11...you decide

Oh jesus christ. you're refering to what, WTC7? the government did not bring that down, it fell on its own

sources?

[Tomriddle]

believe what you want.....b/c of some of our countries actions in the past, i choose to question the gov't, and will continue to do so

Like what? The vague and ridiculous notion, with only a tiny bit of evidence (at best) to back it up, that we killed Kennedy? That leads you to believe that every expert and eyewitness to the most well publicized event in the last couple of decades is flat out wrong?

[Lcsulla]

what a load of crap....:thumbsdow

Pretty sure he was being sarcastic. :)

Oh wow though, I missed the Kennedy arguing. 44 years later and we're still debating this one. Thanks Oliver! :lol

[TapNorris]

we killed Kennedy?

Come on!! Everyone knows that Joe DiMaggio killed Kennedy!!

[Dads_obsessed]

Oh jesus christ. you're refering to what, WTC7? the government did not bring that down, it fell on its own

sources?

How exactly does a building fall on its own?

[TapNorris]

How exactly does a building fall on its own?

After TWO 1300 ft. towers fell on it?!!? Pretty easily if you ask me.

[Dads_obsessed]

After TWO 1300 ft. towers fell on it?!!? Pretty easily if you ask me.

Have you seen footage of wtc7 coming down?

[Tomriddle]

How exactly does a building fall on its own?

Jeeeeesus. Stay with me here.

What Happened On 9/11:

1) Terrorists hijack planes
2) planes crash into two main WTC towers
3) WTC towers fall down
4) the debris and stuff from their falling down weakens a support column on the WTC 7 building
5) The column gives, and the WTC7 building falls down

[TapNorris]

Have you seen footage of wtc7 coming down?


I'm sure I did after it happened.....it hasn't been something I've felt the need to watch since then.

[Dads_obsessed]

I'm sure I did after it happened.....it hasn't been something I've felt the need to watch since then.

Thats kinda what I thought. The twin towers did not fall on wtc7.

[Jake]

Have you seen footage of wtc7 coming down?



don't forget that these buildings aren't built where mountains grow, this was sand underneath them. A few years back, The History Channel re-ran a 1970's documentary on the building of the entire WT center. It's all sand underneath there.

In other words, structurally speaking, everything around there isn't very sturdy. In fact, it's kind of a miracle that only WT7 went down, and a bunch of buildings didn't fall like dominoes.

[Dads_obsessed]

Jeeeeesus. Stay with me here.

What Happened On 9/11:

1) Terrorists hijack planes
2) planes crash into two main WTC towers
3) WTC towers fall down
4) the debris and stuff from their falling down weakens a support column on the WTC 7 building
5) The column gives, and the WTC7 building falls down

According to the buildings landlord, Larry Silverstein, thats not what happened.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

[TapNorris]

Thats kinda what I thought. The twin towers did not fall on wtc7.


I don't think you can know that for sure. What do you think about that?!!?:eek

[Jake]

so the government blew up WTC7.

1. where did the dynamite come from? did anyone at the scene happen to notice anyone carrying dynamite into the building? I think there were a few people with camera there, so I'm guessing there may be video somewhere of people with pix of this happening.

2. Where did the dynamite come from? I don't think Dick Cheney keeps it in his back pocket. It had to be stored somewhere.

3. who delivered it? Surely the same people who keep the dynamite didn't deliver it.



Get the picture? Say it's kept on an army base. 10 people rotate the guard over it. 10 more do the inventory, 4 people drive the truck to deliver and unload it. those 24 people have 8 commanding officers. Those answer to the joint chiefs, who have assistants. Then the President does this b/c his handlers tell him to do so.


maybe 600 people put this together then?

and no one, not a one leaks this to the press. But if the President has a meeting with just 3 other people, anonymous sources leak the info to the NY Times??



yea... sure...

[jiggajm18]

Like what? The vague and ridiculous notion, with only a tiny bit of evidence (at best) to back it up, that we killed Kennedy? That leads you to believe that every expert and eyewitness to the most well publicized event in the last couple of decades is flat out wrong?


do you know any history?? here are a few questionable (if not just plain stupid) actions in our country's short history:

1. think of how we got here. arent you glad the natives just felt free to move to reservations?

2. watergate

3. george bush senior's claim : "i will never, not ever, under no circumstances ever raise taxes". what did he do when elected? raise taxes

4. clinton lying under oath (relatively minor compared to others, but still proves that our government lies)

5. all of the scandal surrounding the vietnam war

6. the recent firings of the u.s. attorneys. why? the answers confidential, according to the bush administration

7. putting asians along the california coast in concentration camps

so the next time our government does something questionable, from lying about sex to putting innocent people in concentration camps, feel free to blindly accept what they do. i, on the other hand, will continue to protect myself by questioning our government

[WiseManSay]

do you know any history?? here are a few questionable (if not just plain stupid) actions in our country's short history:

1. think of how we got here. arent you glad the natives just felt free to move to reservations?

2. watergate

3. george bush senior's claim : "i will never, not ever, under no circumstances ever raise taxes". what did he do when elected? raise taxes

4. clinton lying under oath (relatively minor compared to others, but still proves that our government lies)

5. all of the scandal surrounding the vietnam war

6. the recent firings of the u.s. attorneys. why? the answers confidential, according to the bush administration

7. putting asians along the california coast in concentration camps

so the next time our government does something questionable, from lying about sex to putting innocent people in concentration camps, feel free to blindly accept what they do. i, on the other hand, will continue to protect myself by questioning our government


I thought it was common knowledge to question what politicans say.

[Lcsulla]

do you know any history?? here are a few questionable (if not just plain stupid) actions in our country's short history:

1. think of how we got here. arent you glad the natives just felt free to move to reservations?

2. watergate

3. george bush senior's claim : "i will never, not ever, under no circumstances ever raise taxes". what did he do when elected? raise taxes

4. clinton lying under oath (relatively minor compared to others, but still proves that our government lies)

5. all of the scandal surrounding the vietnam war

6. the recent firings of the u.s. attorneys. why? the answers confidential, according to the bush administration

7. putting asians along the california coast in concentration camps

so the next time our government does something questionable, from lying about sex to putting innocent people in concentration camps, feel free to blindly accept what they do. i, on the other hand, will continue to protect myself by questioning our government

1. Wasn't exactly hidden or covered up.
2. Expand on that one.
3. There's something new, a candidate not keeping a promise. Stop the presses.
4. That proves one man lies, nothing more.
5. Such as?
6. Nothing inherently illegal there.
7. Again, hardly covered up - the whole world knew.

You forgot Lincoln suspending Habeas Corpus too - oh, and waterboarding!

None of what you mentioned is exactly a criminal conspiracy and I would hardly let a few moments in our history we regret allow you to believe the government killed 3,000 citizens for no good reason - not to mention the virtual impossibility of one group of people pulling it off without a leak in only 9 months.

[zdaddy]

According to the buildings landlord, Larry Silverstein, thats not what happened.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

From what ive gathered (sorry i looked this stuff up months ago and cant remember the sources) what they mean by "pulling it", is actually PULLING IT. Pulling the support beams out from under it so it would fall straight down, instead of the domino effect it would have created. AND neither of the Twin Towers (significant debris included) fell on WTC 7, it was the heat of the immense fires that weakened and eventually destroyed it

[Tomriddle]

do you know any history??

Loads.

1. think of how we got here. arent you glad the natives just felt free to move to reservations?

So?

2. watergate

You can't possibly be comparing that level of conspiracy to bringing down the WTC

3. george bush senior's claim : "i will never, not ever, under no circumstances ever raise taxes". what did he do when elected? raise taxes

4. clinton lying under oath (relatively minor compared to others, but still proves that our government lies)

:eek:eek:eek:eek

An elected official told a lie!?!?! Clearly, this is irrefutable evidence that our government pulled off the most successful conspiracy of all time for vague goals.

5. all of the scandal surrounding the vietnam war

Like what?

6. the recent firings of the u.s. attorneys. why? the answers confidential, according to the bush administration

The President can have whoever he wants working for him

7. putting asians along the california coast in concentration camps

Which is clearly FDR's ulterior motive for bombing Pearl Harbor :rolleyes

The fact that you use "George Senior broke a campaign promise" to prove "the US government has no problem with murdering thousands of Americans" proves how deluded and preposterous your claims are.

[Tomriddle]

According to the buildings landlord, Larry Silverstein, thats not what happened.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=7WYdAJQV100

Popular mechanics:

NIST investigators believe a combination of intense fire and severe structural damage contributed to the collapse, though assigning the exact proportion requires more research. But NIST's analysis suggests the fall of WTC 7 was an example of "progressive collapse," a process in which the failure of parts of a structure ultimately creates strains that cause the entire building to come down. Videos (http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=5#) of the fall of WTC 7 show cracks, or "kinks," in the building's facade just before the two penthouses disappeared into the structure, one after the other. The entire building fell in on itself, with the slumping east side of the structure pulling down the west side in a diagonal collapse.


According to NIST, there was one primary reason for the building's failure: In an unusual design, the columns near the visible kinks were carrying exceptionally large loads, roughly 2000 sq. ft. of floor area for each floor. "What our preliminary analysis has shown is that if you take out just one column on one of the lower floors," Sunder notes, "it could cause a vertical progression of collapse so that the entire section comes down."
There are two other possible contributing factors still under investigation:



First, trusses on the fifth and seventh floors were designed to transfer loads from one set of columns to another. With columns on the south face apparently damaged, high stresses would likely have been communicated to columns on the building's other faces, thereby exceeding their load-bearing capacities.


Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."

[jiggajm18]

Loads.



So?



You can't possibly be comparing that level of conspiracy to bringing down the WTC





:eek:eek:eek:eek

An elected official told a lie!?!?! Clearly, this is irrefutable evidence that our government pulled off the most successful conspiracy of all time for vague goals.



Like what?



The President can have whoever he wants working for him



Which is clearly FDR's ulterior motive for bombing Pearl Harbor :rolleyes

The fact that you use "George Senior broke a campaign promise" to prove "the US government has no problem with murdering thousands of Americans" proves how deluded and preposterous your claims are.

no, the most successful conspiracy was the murder of JFK. i dont think WTC was a conspiracy

what the hell does that mean?

not once have i said that WTC was a conspiracy. i dont think it is. so the fact that you read more deeply than what i actually said shows how blind you really are.

and my entire post was due to someone who, when i said our country has done questionable things in the past, immediately said, "like what? murder JKF?" my post was to prove a point, which is that people who think that the government would never try to hurt its people are blind.

[Tomriddle]

no, the most successful conspiracy was the murder of JFK. i dont think WTC was a conspiracy

what the hell does that mean?

not once have i said that WTC was a conspiracy. i dont think it is. so the fact that you read more deeply than what i actually said shows how blind you really are.

and my entire post was due to someone who, when i said our country has done questionable things in the past, immediately said, "like what? murder JKF?" my post was to prove a point, which is that people who think that the government would never try to hurt its people are blind.

Oh, youre the jfk guy, not the wtc guy

same argument still applies. bush sr broke a campaign promise and clinton got a blowjob means the cia killed jfk? please. the evidence for that is immaterial, superficial and lacking at best

[jharap]

Anyone ever notice how every single conspiracy theory sounds so convincing ? I mean, if you're going to believe one, why not believe that our government planned 9/11, the government has covered up countless UFO landings, Kurt Cobain didn't actually commit suicide, and JFK's murder was an inside job. They're all the same thing, really...

[Tiduwho]

Anyone ever notice how every single conspiracy theory sounds so convincing ? I mean, if you're going to believe one, why not believe that our government planned 9/11, the government has covered up countless UFO landings, Kurt Cobain didn't actually commit suicide, and JFK's murder was an inside job. They're all the same thing, really...

Don't forget the great Titanic conspiracy. You don't actually believe such an incredibly large and dense ship made of TITANIUM was taken down by a wimpy iceberg do you? Think about the profits that could be made if that ship could be taken down! Don't be such a sheep.

[davehead86]

Anyone ever notice how every single conspiracy theory sounds so convincing ? I mean, if you're going to believe one, why not believe that our government planned 9/11, the government has covered up countless UFO landings, Kurt Cobain didn't actually commit suicide, and JFK's murder was an inside job. They're all the same thing, really...

:lol :lol :lol

my favorite is still that we never landed on the moon.

[zdaddy]

:lol :lol :lol

my favorite is still that we never landed on the moon.

"The flag is blowing. THE DAMN FLAG IS BLOWING!!!"

:lol how did these people ever graduate from high school:lol

[dre2142]

Thats kinda what I thought. The twin towers did not fall on wtc7.


The entire infrastructure from 2 1300 high buildings fell around it, weaking the entire footprint of the area. Not hard to comprehend.

[~Crashintome89~]

Don't forget the great Titanic conspiracy. You don't actually believe such an incredibly large and dense ship made of TITANIUM was taken down by a wimpy iceberg do you? Think about the profits that could be made if that ship could be taken down! Don't be such a sheep.

OMGZ OMGZ JP MORGAN DIDN'T GO ON THE SHIP BECAUSE HE WAS "SICK"!

conspiracy!

[jiggajm18]

"The flag is blowing. THE DAMN FLAG IS BLOWING!!!"

:lol how did these people ever graduate from high school:lol


lol......it doesnt take much to graduate from high school in america. all you need is to get your parents to call up your teachers and complain about how many baseball games you have that week and all your tests get cancelled.

thats why i love having classes with freshman.....theyre so babied in high school that when they get to college, they shit their pants when they find out professors dont care if you have 2 exams in one day

[jiggajm18]

The entire infrastructure from 2 1300 high buildings fell around it, weaking the entire footprint of the area. Not hard to comprehend.


right.....and i'm pretty sure the land that the towers were on actually wasnt land when the property was first bought.

[Tomriddle]

"The flag is blowing. THE DAMN FLAG IS BLOWING!!!"

:lol how did these people ever graduate from high school:lol

:lol

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/youtube.png

[Jake]

some people just don't want to believe, it's that simple. They can't believe that a bunch of Muslims could pull off something like this. So they think their government is all evil and also able to trick everyone but themselves.


it's really sad.

[FunkyTeaParty]

If the bizarre obsession to invade Iraq wasn't the result I think this conspiracy theory would have lost all steam.

Many of us (and I don't believe in any conspiracy) still ask ourselves everyday, why did we really invade Iraq?

[clemson357]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a fucking lunatic, and needs to be baker acted.

[dre2142]

Many of us (and I don't believe in any conspiracy) still ask ourselves everyday, why did we really invade Iraq?

I wonder that myself....but I dont believe for a second that the Iraq situation was pre-planned in any way. Its ludicrous.

So okay, the government believed Saddam had WMDs. None have been found.....so what? I do think that the govt needs to get the ball rolling on a set plan to get our troops out of there.

[FunkyTeaParty]

It was pre-planned in many ways.

The question is, how many?

[bubba40]

Anyone who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy is a fucking lunatic.

:thumbsup

That basically sums up my thoughts on this topic :lol

[laststraw41]

People sure do hold a lot of faith in what the media/government tells them...

[Tiduwho]

People sure do hold a lot of faith in what attention-seeking delusional teenagers tell them...

[laststraw41]

People sure do hold a lot of faith in what attention-seeking delusional teenagers tell them...

I guess all teenagers are ignorant, uninformed and delusional? Is this what you're getting at?

Pretty flawed point you're trying to make, if you ask me.

[jharap]

Can we get a list of the dispshits that entertain this conspiracy theory? I just think all Ants with a junior high school level of intelligence or above should be able to know whose posts aren't worth reading...

[Dads_obsessed]

People sure do hold a lot of faith in what attention-seeking delusional teenagers tell them...

Would the movie be more creditable if it where made by scholars, PhDs or physicists?

[jharap]

Would the movie be more creditable if it where made by scholars, PhDs or physicists?

Of course...that's the dumbest question I've ever heard.

And guess what...if they were well respected, peer reviewed, elite members of their respective fields, the movie would have even more credibility!

[Dads_obsessed]

Of course...that's the dumbest question I've ever heard.

And guess what...if they were well respected, peer reviewed, elite members of their respective fields, the movie would have even more credibility!

you're right, it is a dumb question, I asked it only to make a point.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

[jharap]

you're right, it is a dumb question, I asked it only to make a point.

http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/

:BANG Some point you made.

Lets concede that 1 out of every 100 scholars believe that it was a conspiracy. Who would be more credible? The 1 scholar or the other 99? Now lets take into account that in actuality, it's probably more like one moron whose daddy was President of the college where he received his phD versus 10,000 scholars who laugh at people who think the government planned 9/11.

I mean, every time I say it out loud I can't believe that people who can operate a computer can also believe that the Bush Administration had a hand in 9/11.

[Jake]

....
Many of us (and I don't believe in any conspiracy) still ask ourselves everyday, why did we really invade Iraq?



the real answer, which is politically incorrect and no one will ever say with any authority, is because in order for the US to be safe from Islamic Attacks, we must destroy all the governments over in the Middle East.


We obviously must take Iran out, so the theory was to overtake Iraq, and then Iran would be surrounded on both sides, with the hope that the students would revolt and the hard-liners would fall.

That would dry out Syria's money pipeline, stopping most suicide bombers in Israel.

Syria then could be bought off to be tough on the remaining hard-liners in their country, and whammo! peace in the Middle East.



Of course, securing Iraq would have to occur first, and the US did not provide enough troops to secure the country, hence the situation we're in today.


questions/comments?

[FunkyTeaParty]

Even with enough troops that series of events are/were a pipe dream of epic proportions.

[Jake]

Even with enough troops that series of events are/were a pipe dream of epic proportions.



but that's the real reason.

[jharap]

Just curious, with every liberal paper in America and Europe that can't wait to expose the Bush Administration or hurt them in any small way possible, why are none of them picking this story up? As Jake said, Bush has a classified conversation with three people and somehow it winds up in the New York Times. In order for this plan to have worked it requires upwards of 500 people to be completely content with complying in the murder of thousands of Americans in cold blood. And in all these years not one of those 500-1000 people's consciences get the best of them, nor do any of them leak the information that could make them millionaires.

Oh, but top secret information told to a handful of people that is no where near as daunting or as harmful to the Bush Administration(which is the goal of countless people/media outlets) finds its way into one of the largest papers in the country.

So lets just wrap this one up for the idiots: Bush has people who can't wait to leak irrelavant information in his innermost circles, but he finds hundreds of the most loyal servants to conspire to partake in what would be the largest mass murder in American history.

[FunkyTeaParty]

.....and with a grand scheme like that we elected to try and do it on the cheap?

[jharap]

.....and with a grand scheme like that we elected to try and do it on the cheap?

I don't think anyone's arguing Bush's competence in this situation...

[Dads_obsessed]

:BANG Some point you made.

Lets concede that 1 out of every 100 scholars believe that it was a conspiracy. Who would be more credible? The 1 scholar or the other 99? Now lets take into account that in actuality, it's probably more like one moron whose daddy was President of the college where he received his phD versus 10,000 scholars who laugh at people who think the government planned 9/11.

I mean, every time I say it out loud I can't believe that people who can operate a computer can also believe that the Bush Administration had a hand in 9/11.

Making assumptions about how many of these people there are, and where they might come from, is hardly basis for arguement.

[jharap]

Making assumptions about how many of these people there are, and where they might come from, is hardly basis for arguement.

You're the only one who thinks there's an argument.

[Dads_obsessed]

You're the only one who thinks there's an argument.

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for answers. I've stated before that I'm not a conspiracy thoerist, and although it may seem like it, I'm not trying to change your, or anybody elses mind. There are just way to many coincidences to ignore. I would love nothing more then to have the straight facts to prove once and for all that these thoeries are bullshit, but I can't find them.

Simply stated, I have been trying to find answers to questions that need to be asked, but the more I look, the more questions I end up having.

[Jake]

I'm not looking for an argument, I'm looking for answers. I've stated before that I'm not a conspiracy thoerist, and although it may seem like it, I'm not trying to change your, or anybody elses mind. There are just way to many coincidences to ignore. I would love nothing more then to have the straight facts to prove once and for all that these thoeries are bullshit, but I can't find them.

Simply stated, I have been trying to find answers to questions that need to be asked, but the more I look, the more questions I end up having.

just for giggles, would you state your questions again? I'll be happy to answer them this evening.

[Tomriddle]

Many of us (and I don't believe in any conspiracy) still ask ourselves everyday, why did we really invade Iraq?

I think there was just a lot of residual hate of Saddam, since a lot of the movers and shakers in the Bush Admin were old Gulf War people. Then when presented with (substantial) evidence that he had WMDs we rushed to war without the necessary pre-planning and considerations.

It's like let's say you have a thing for this girl. Then all of a sudden she asks if you want to see a movie that's playing with her because noone else is around. Is this really indicative of her interest in you? No, but most likely you'll jump on it as if it was.

We also have to consider that a lot of the people the administration associates with are Kellog Brown Root etc people. Now, I'm not saying that the war was done for profit, this is just a conspiracy theory put together by crazy leftists who live in irrational fear and hatred of corporations and, I believe, capitalism in general. However, I think the military industrial complex did push the decision along a little and that just because these are people who think about war a lot it was viewed as a more viable answer.

Also, I think that it was a factored and calculated move in the war on terror, because "terror" does not necessarily mean "al-Qaida." However, I think a lot of these calculations were off for the reasons mentioned above.

So, to conclude: was the war a mistake? Yes, though its not nearly as stupid or malicious as some people would like to paint it. Should W. be removed or impeaced for it? Of course not. Should he have not won reelection because of it? Yes, were he running against a viable candidate, which Kerry wasn't.

My two cents.

[Tomriddle]

questions/comments?

Question. When you say that we didn't bring enough troops to secure Iraq, is that because our military simply doesn't have the resources/capacity to maintain numbers that high in Iraq or did we just screw it up?

[Jake]

Question. When you say that we didn't bring enough troops to secure Iraq, is that because our military simply doesn't have the resources/capacity to maintain numbers that high in Iraq or did we just screw it up?


we screwed it up. They were under the impression that they'd just march in and life would be grand. They didn't secure the boarders, so Iran and Syria took advantage by sending in people to bomb the place and feed weapons to insurgents.


if you had enough troops to patrol the boarders, none of this would've happened.

[Dads_obsessed]

just for giggles, would you state your questions again? I'll be happy to answer them this evening.

I have a lot of questions, but the two I have asked here are:

Why have we never seen pictures or video of a plane at the Petagon?

How did wtc7 come down all on its own.

[Tomriddle]

Why have we never seen pictures or video of a plane at the Petagon?

There is a picture of a wing fragment, and the rest are probably classified on general principle because its the pentagon or perhaps there simply weren't as many taken as WTC

[quote=Dads_obsessed;6004915] How did wtc7 come down all on its own.

it didn't, duh.

it was on fire.

for seven hours.

[Lcsulla]

Why have we never seen pictures or video of a plane at the Petagon?

How did wtc7 come down all on its own.

It is more of a fluke to me that we have pictures and video of the first plane hitting the WTC than not having pictures or video of the pentagon one. Generally we get neither for a plane crash because they happen so suddenly. The pentagon is also a military installation so you wouldn't expect a bunch of gawking tourists snapping pictures or video feeds for kicks like you may in WTC plaza.

If I actually believed in this conspiracy I would also be curious why they would use 3 jumbo jets to take out other targets and then waste a perfectly good missile on a 4th target.

WTC 7 most likely came down due to stress and shifting in the foundation caused by the two main towers tumbling down.

[Tomriddle]

we screwed it up. They were under the impression that they'd just march in and life would be grand. They didn't secure the boarders, so Iran and Syria took advantage by sending in people to bomb the place and feed weapons to insurgents.


if you had enough troops to patrol the boarders, none of this would've happened.

yeah, i'll buy that

[Lcsulla]

if you had enough troops to patrol the boarders, none of this would've happened.

For a second I thought you were justifying police brutality against all those poor immigrants in LA.

[Jake]

I have a lot of questions, but the two I have asked here are:

Why have we never seen pictures or video of a plane at the Petagon?

How did wtc7 come down all on its own.




As already stated, we have some quick pictures of the plane hitting as it went by a camera. We also have numerous eye witness reports. I can't link now (I'll link at home later), but there are reports of people on 66 seeing the plane, on 495 seeing it, etc.

In addition to that, I was working on 9.11 with the brother of Mel Martinez, current FL Senator (R) and at that time HUD sect. His office faced the pentagon and his sect told the former HUD'er that she saw the plane approach the building, and then saw an explosion. Mel's brother told us this a little after 1 pm et.

She did not mistake it for a missle.



the WTC7 fell for the reasons already stated in this thread; the ground was a bit pourous, and two buildings twice its size fell next to it.



those are the answers. Now do you believe? Or do you need to put your hands in the wounds to believe it?

[Tiduwho]

I guess all teenagers are ignorant, uninformed and delusional? Is this what you're getting at?

Pretty flawed point you're trying to make, if you ask me.

No. These ones are.

[Tiduwho]

Would the movie be more creditable if it where made by scholars, PhDs or physicists?


Ummm....duh? :ugh

[Jake]

in addition: in your neck of the woods, a bridge collapsed under the heat of a truck fire. Do you think Pres. Bush had missiles fired into the bridge and that's really how it fell?