Should 527 groups be outlawed?

[cyberhound]

Put aside your biases for a moment and think about the subject. Should 527 groups be outlawed? You can post why or why not as well...

[saygoodbye12]

If you don't mind the fact that 527's are basically a way for politicians to raise unlimited amounts of soft money, then I guess they are acceptable.

[cyberhound]

If you don't mind the fact that 527's are basically a way for politicians to raise unlimited amounts of soft money, then I guess they are acceptable.
What about the fact that doing so limits freedom of speech?

[cbsauder]

nah, i dont know too much about them, but groups should be able to run ads if they wnat to.

[ambysshrink]

What about the fact that doing so limits freedom of speech?
I don't agree with the premise of that argument. Individuals and groups can say whatever they want through other kinds of organizations. But using tax-exempt organizations who have no limit on cash flow is just a way of getting around the law. I forget the Latin phrase, but it's something like "You can't do indirectly what you can't do directly." It's a trapdoor in our system, and it should be sealed shut.

My $0.02

[cyberhound]

I don't agree with the premise of that argument. Individuals and groups can say whatever they want through other kinds of organizations. But using tax-exempt organizations who have no limit on cash flow is just a way of getting around the law. I forget the Latin phrase, but it's something like "You can't do indirectly what you can't do directly." It's a trapdoor in our system, and it should be sealed shut.

My $0.02
So, if you and I happen by some great disturbance in the universe to agree on something political, we should not be able to find like minded people who agree and want to contribute and pool our resources to get our message out?

I take it you are against Moveon.org.

[Davenumber40]

You can try to close this trap door but they'll find another. I hope John McCain is happy; this is going to be one of the dirtiest campaigns in a while thanks in part to his bill.

[ambysshrink]

So, if you and I happen by some great disturbance in the universe to agree on something political, we should not be able to find like minded people who agree and want to contribute and pool our resources to get our message out?

I take it you are against Moveon.org.
Yes, I am against MoveOn.org.
I don't think that limiting what monetary resources can go into launching blanket statements (many of which are simply untrue or misleading) over the airwaves is imposing upon free speech. You are free to get together and protest outside of city hall, so to speak.
Just curious, where do you stand on campaign finance reform?

[cyberhound]

Yes, I am against MoveOn.org.
I don't think that limiting what monetary resources can go into launching blanket statements (many of which are simply untrue or misleading) over the airwaves is imposing upon free speech. You are free to get together and protest outside of city hall, so to speak.
Just curious, where do you stand on campaign finance reform?
I am against CFR. It limits free speech and puts too much power in the hands of the media.

[momuleskinner]

I am against all 527's. I am all for free speech, but there should be limits on donations to all of these groups. They do nothing but muddy the waters with misinformation and biased parsing of the facts to sway opinions.

[ambysshrink]

527's also provide protection to individuals who blatently lie (cough cough swift vote veterans for "truth") by putting them behind the facade of an organization. When someone slanders, they should be individually and personally liable.

[cyberhound]

527's also provide protection to individuals who blatently lie (cough cough swift vote veterans for "truth") by putting them behind the facade of an organization. When someone slanders, they should be individually and personally liable.That's why we have courts. You don't preemptively stop speech because some will lie. Should we hold Bush and Kerry legally accountable for their lies during the campaign as well? If you want to use the excuse of stopping lying, why not just shut down the whole campaign?

[chellek23]

Although I don't really care for 527s, especially this year... I think they certainly do have the right to exist. The only way to really 'diminish' their influence is to put the ability back in that of the party by repealing the most recent campaign finance reform. At least then you can better keep track of where and how money is spent as well hold the parties and their respective candidates more accountable. Unlike the 'shadowy' political organizations...

[chels012002]

I am so uneducated for this campaign. My state is having the local votes this week and I know who I am voting for cause I dont see any real issues with who I am voting for, but when the presidential election comes I haven't the slightest clue what to do. Especailly now cause I, in all honesty, don't know what a 527 is. Any fellow ANT wanna pm me and give me the 411?

[ambysshrink]

If you want to use the excuse of stopping lying, why not just shut down the whole campaign?
Yeah, because that's really what I said.

[ambysshrink]

Although I don't really care for 527s, especially this year... I think they certainly do have the right to exist. organizations...
Yes, I agree; I just don't think that they should exist in the way that they do right now. I guess my point is that we need to crack down on the ones that are abusive of their own protections, and take legislative action to stop it from happenning in the future.

[schmenencke]

527 groups are pieces of crap. However, they're only the logical offshoot of McCain-Feingold, which I agree is a limit to free speech. So, 527 groups shouldn't be outlawed, but if we got rid of campaign finance reform, they'd fall away.

[divi0013]

while i am a liberal, i think that 527's should be banned

[Warehouse21]

I hate the attack ds on Kerry's service, but i think that as a politician, you have to deal with oppostition. To silence opposition is to sink to Bush's level, which no one should do for the good of the country.

[ZildjianLudwig]

As lunatic as groups like MoveOn.org are, nobody should squash their right to free speech.

I do think it's fair that the public know who is behind such groups. If Kerry is behind MoveOn.org (and I don't think he is), the public should know. If Bush is behind SwiftVets.com (and I don't think he is), the public should know.

But for NO reason should they be outlawed.

Save that for the USSR. Not the USA.

[EatSleepJeep]

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Their name just implies that they are full of it. Had they left the "for truth" part out, I may have listened to their message. As a rule, anyone that says "Trust me" is lying to you.

"Never ask anyone to trust you, it's the cry of a dishonest soul."

[boob]

no, the part that is full of it is kerry's review about troops in vietnam acting as terrorist. i wish i was standing on the white house lawn when that prick threw his medals over the fence- wait they werent his medals- wait they were his ribbons- wait they were copies of his medals- so i could either piss on them or throw them back over the fence. after the vietnam war, a time when his veterans needed his backing most, he disgraced them by making them look like bigger animals more than the american population already thought our soldiers were when they returned home.

[nonewdirections]

no, the part that is full of it is kerry's review about troops in vietnam acting as terrorist. i wish i was standing on the white house lawn when that prick threw his medals over the fence- wait they werent his medals- wait they were his ribbons- wait they were copies of his medals- so i could either piss on them or throw them back over the fence. after the vietnam war, a time when his veterans needed his backing most, he disgraced them by making them look like bigger animals more than the american population already thought our soldiers were when they returned home.
wait, hold on, can you be a bit more blatantly anti-kerry? ;)

[boob]

just stating my side against his post-vietnam era behavior which led to these 527 ads. that behavior has shaped him into how parts of our country views him today, flip flopper. im not an anti-kerry extremist yet, just an anti- jane fonda extremist. damn that woman

[ambysshrink]

no, the part that is full of it is kerry's review about troops in vietnam acting as terrorist. i wish i was standing on the white house lawn when that prick threw his medals over the fence- wait they werent his medals- wait they were his ribbons- wait they were copies of his medals- so i could either piss on them or throw them back over the fence. after the vietnam war, a time when his veterans needed his backing most, he disgraced them by making them look like bigger animals more than the american population already thought our soldiers were when they returned home.
Look, we all know you're a boob. Did you have to go and show us by naming yourself that as well? In 21 posts, you haven't made a single point. You just say whatever you impulsively think and don't listen to anyone else or examine evidence that others put forth. Here is a site that is more on your level of debate: www.disney.com

[EatSleepJeep]

just stating my side against his post-vietnam era behavior which led to these 527 ads. that behavior has shaped him into how parts of our country views him today, flip flopper. im not an anti-kerry extremist yet, just an anti- jane fonda extremist. damn that woman
The avatar fits the user name better than any I've ever seen.

[cyberhound]

Look, we all know you're a boob. Did you have to go and show us by naming yourself that as well? In 21 posts, you haven't made a single point. You just say whatever you impulsively think and don't listen to anyone else or examine evidence that others put forth. Here is a site that is more on your level of debate: www.disney.com (http://www.disney.com)
:lol The Anti-Cyberhound. Good one.

[jrock5730]

Look, we all know you're a boob. Did you have to go and show us by naming yourself that as well? In 21 posts, you haven't made a single point. You just say whatever you impulsively think and don't listen to anyone else or examine evidence that others put forth. Here is a site that is more on your level of debate: www.disney.com

you must have alot of free time :lol

and I also think anyone that makes a quote like this: "I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'" —George W. Bush, Beaverton, Oregon, Aug. 13, 2004 should be banned from government

[ambysshrink]

you must have alot of free time :lol
Why? Because I call people on their bullshit?
and I also think anyone that makes a quote like this: "I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'" —George W. Bush, Beaverton, Oregon, Aug. 13, 2004 should be banned from government
That's hilarious--I haven't seen that one. :lol :lol

[momuleskinner]

First, let me say that I will be voting for Bush this fall. From reading some of the posts here, it is obvious that many, on both sides, see the 527 groups opposing their respective candidates as crooked and dishonest. The only difference to me between moveon.org or the swift boat vets is the candidate in the crosshairs of their message.

As a ten year vet of the military I can somewhat understand the swift boaters' ire towards Kerry for his commentary after the war and ditching his medals he now wants respect for.

[firedwarftj]

I think they are good as long as they dont endorse a canidates, I may not agree with all their views, but if people want to spend money against a candidate or idea, then let them ...

[jrock5730]

Why? Because I call people on their bullshit?

That's hilarious--I haven't seen that one. :lol :lol


you should visit www.politicalhumor.com you would be suprised some of the stupid stuff that comes out of politicians mouths.

[TwoStep2888]

With a new election right around the corner, I decided to bump this thread.

[ShotgunDMB]

George Soros is satan.

[TwoStep2888]

George Soros is satan.

Okay?

[kjzz12]

You know, you'd be less Colbert-esque if you didn't let everyone who disagrees with you piss you off.

[TwoStep2888]

You know, you'd be less Colbert-esque if you didn't let everyone who disagrees with you piss you off.

He'll get it. Give him time.

[ShotgunDMB]

George Soros is a disgusting waste of oxygen. Its crazy how much money that dude has poured into various 'movements', and into the democratic party. He tried his best to buy the election in 04. Didn't work obviously. These little groups annoy me because it gives a lot of crazy mofo's the belief that they control things .

[kjzz12]

And reactions like yours by people like you fuel him. So continue freaking out, because that's what drives him. I'm not a huge fan of him myself, but whatever.

[ShotgunDMB]

I'm not freaking out. I'm just stating opinion. If you allow morons to go unchecked they only get more powerful, and pick up more gullible little followers. I hope people continue to call him out.

[TwoStep2888]

I'm not freaking out. I'm just stating opinion. If you allow morons to go unchecked they only get more powerful, and pick up more gullible little followers. I hope people continue to call him out.

It's no different than Rupert Murdoch on the right. Both sides have their big players who influence (or outright control) media outlets to get their message out. It's politics.