pentagon 9/11 flash

[pkpro1]

i'm sure some of you have seen this... but it's a flash vid that's kind of interesting and getting more attention lately.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main

[System]

ya, so i don't believe a word that was shown.

5300 lbs of jet fuel will make a 757 disappear. Aluminum will melt

[cyberhound]

http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

[Jake]

it's scarry how people who have no idea of the mechanics of a high velocity crash can put something out as a 'fact'.

[Number27]

The music was catchy.

[boilermaker26]

What was the point of that? I did not have sound, but watched the video and read it. Were they getting that a missile hit the pentagon or that a military jet crashed into it or that a military jet shot the missile that crashed into the pentagon.

I think that this is extremely insulting for anyone who had loved ones on that plane. So, their deaths didn't really happen? Just a governement conspiracy? How stupid.

[cyberhound]

i'm sure some of you have seen this... but it's a flash vid that's kind of interesting and getting more attention lately.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main
Ok, so what's your point?

[RaynorC]

It does make you think.

[Carbon Copy]

It does make you think.
makes you think about how retarded the people that made the video were..

what about all the familys that had their family members die..was there over 100+ people die in a 12 passenger jet....that will make you think right

[RaynorC]

what about all the familys that had their family members die..was there over 100+ people die in a 12 passenger jet....that will make you think right
What kind of response is this? That isn't even relevant. Some of the points make sense and really do make you think that something else could have happened.

[Carbon Copy]

What kind of response is this? That isn't even relevant. Some of the points make sense and really do make you think that something else could have happened.

The plane went down. the plane had more than 10-12 people on it. had 100+ becuase thats how many people died. did those people just dissapear?:twak

[RaynorC]

The plane went down. the plane had more than 10-12 people on it. had 100+ becuase thats how many people died. did those people just dissapear?:twak
All I'm saying is something else could have happened to the plane.

[System]

All I'm saying is something else could have happened to the plane.


:BANG :BANG :BANG :BANG

Nope not a chance in hell, I have a better chance of being asked to replace Dave due to his enlisting into the Marine Corp

nothing else happened to the plane. It was crashed by some towel heads into the penegon. End of Story

[Gregb486]

this is fucking retarded

[boilermaker26]

It was crashed by some towel heads into the penegon.

Wow, bigotry is a level headed approach to this.

[Davenumber40]

Did anyone else notice the stuff about the Pentagon's mind control? That was my favorite.

[Route_2]

I wonder if that is true about the videotapes. Do you think those tapes exist or that it was all bullshit to make hi point look stronger?

[Agent0016]

The bottom line about this thing was said earlier:

What was the point of that? I did not have sound, but watched the video and read it. Were they getting that a missile hit the pentagon or that a military jet crashed into it or that a military jet shot the missile that crashed into the pentagon.

I think that this is extremely insulting for anyone who had loved ones on that plane. So, their deaths didn't really happen? Just a governement conspiracy? How stupid.

I wonder what the families of the people on that plane think about this. If they've seen it that is. And the part about the pilot being incompetent only explains why the guy hit the ground before hitting the Pentagon like this (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon.jpeg) image shows.

[Route_2]

The bottom line about this thing was said earlier:



I wonder what the families of the people on that plane think about this. If they've seen it that is. And the part about the pilot being incompetent only explains why the guy hit the ground before hitting the Pentagon like this (http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/images/sozen.pentagon.jpeg) image shows.Did you draw that yourself?

[Agent0016]

No, I got it from an earlier post.


http://news.uns.purdue.edu/UNS/html4ever/020910.Sozen.Pentagon.html

[EddieW33]

I wonder if that is true about the videotapes. Do you think those tapes exist or that it was all bullshit to make hi point look stronger?
Even if those tapes taken away do exist, should our govt release them to the public to see a commercial airliner crashing into the Pentagon? Yeah, this is what we all need, because it is so much fun to see those planes hit the World Trade Centers as it is...

Anyone can make a point and try to argue it, just ask all of the people who say the Holocaust did not happen - OK.

Questionsing authority is OK, but this vidoe was misguided information, a propaganda tactic many different groups have used over the years.

:BANG :violent :BANG :BANG :BANG

[jrock5730]

One would think that the Pentagon has so many video cameras around that place, that they can see anywhere on the Pentagon grounds at anytime. I would like to see the real video, it would be interesting I am sure.

[Route_2]

They don't have any reason to release them but i wouldn't mind taking a look at them. Sure it's a horrible event but it's not something you get to see everyday.

[thing4377]

I must say this is a little crazy.....many people saw that plane...

[jrock5730]

I must say this is a little crazy.....many people saw that plane...

exactly what is "that plane" though is the question...

[thing4377]

exactly what is "that plane" though is the question...
that plane is a big formation of metal and aluminum used to transport people and cargo through the big sky...and if your are loser george bush you can have a plane to carry your limos and shit...cool huh?

[Carbon Copy]

exactly what is "that plane" though is the question...

there is no question. it was a huge ass plane. topic done. oh an btw..purdue rocks.

[Gary]

makes you think about how retarded the people that made the video were..

what about all the familys that had their family members die..was there over 100+ people die in a 12 passenger jet....that will make you think right

um, unless they "took care" of the plane and did the pentagon separately. If I remember correctly there is an airport near the pentagon. If we were indeed talking about a gov't conspiracy that would not be out of the question. Also, did you know no Arabs were on the passenger list for that flight and that several of the hijackers are still alive in their home countries?

True that the families might not like this, but I think we owe it to those who died to find out what actually happened.

[Jake]

in case anyone really buys this tripe, I can assure you that a plane indeed did hit the building, via Mel Martinez (former HUD sect. and now running for FLA senate). he told his brother that his (Mel's) secetary saw the plane hit the building from her window. Mel's brother told us at a depo on 9.11 that his brother just called and told him a plane hit the pentagon (before it made the news).

[Gary]

in case anyone really buys this tripe, I can assure you that a plane indeed did hit the building, via Mel Martinez (former HUD sect. and now running for FLA senate). he told his brother that his (Mel's) secetary saw the plane hit the building from her window. Mel's brother told us at a depo on 9.11 that his brother just called and told him a plane hit the pentagon (before it made the news).

Yeah, I've heard this from a couple other people with friends/relatives who were around it. I don't buy much of the story, but it's pretty amazing that the plane got that low to the ground.

[mantra4]

anyone who believes this should just go ahead and do us a favor and kill themselves... we need to get the gene pool cleaned out just a little.

[JonTheRvelator]

there was a second shooter.

oh wait.

[JonTheRvelator]

anyone who believes this should just go ahead and do us a favor and kill themselves... we need to get the gene pool cleaned out just a little.

:thumbsup

:ggoat

[saygoodbye12]

um, unless they "took care" of the plane and did the pentagon separately. If I remember correctly there is an airport near the pentagon. If we were indeed talking about a gov't conspiracy that would not be out of the question. Also, did you know no Arabs were on the passenger list for that flight and that several of the hijackers are still alive in their home countries?

True that the families might not like this, but I think we owe it to those who died to find out what actually happened.
I'll ask again:

a) If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, How did they find the black boxes/voice recorder for flight 77 INSIDE the Pentagon? Did the government plant it?

b) Barbra Olson called her husband from the plane to tell him it had been hijacked. Were those "fake" hijackers planted by the government in case anyone actually did call home before they died?

c) WHERE IS FLIGHT 77? It really did exist and there really were people on it. Did the government crash it and then clean up the wreckage and all the people before anyone could see it?

d) Why exactly would the U.S. send a missile into the Pentagon on the same day hijackers flew planes into the WTC? Was it just a coincidence?

[Daevian]

i'm sure some of you have seen this... but it's a flash vid that's kind of interesting and getting more attention lately.

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php#Main
Possible......not probable.

[Holla9]

Anything is possible.

[pkpro1]

Ok, so what's your point?
i don't have a point. not everything has to have a point.

i just said that that link was interesting. that's all.

[cyberhound]

i don't have a point. not everything has to have a point.

i just said that that link was interesting. that's all.
What so interesting about it?

[Carbon Copy]

Anything is possible.no its not. i will be the first one to break the news but not everything is possible

[Holla9]

no its not. i will be the first one to break the news but not everything is possible

If we can send people to the moon, I believe its possible to fake a plane crash into a building.

[saygoodbye12]

If we can send people to the moon, I believe its possible to fake a plane crash into a building.
How is it possible? Seriously. Give me a logical thought process as to how this could have occurred.

[nonewdirections]

If we can send people to the moon, I believe its possible to fake a plane crash into a building.
interestingly enough there's a conspiracy theory about how the US govt faked going to the moon

[cyberhound]

If we can send people to the moon, I believe its possible to fake a plane crash into a building.
So it is. Now, do you think it's probable that possiblity happened in this case?

[nonewdirections]

So it is. Now, do you think it's probable that possiblity happened in this case?
:thumbsup

holla9 -- read the snopes article please. loftin posted it earlier in the thread.

[gloco]

I recall seeing a short clip from a security console at the Pentagon that showed the plane (or the tail of it) entering the building on impact. It was a short clip and a bit grainy, from what i recall. I'm just surprised they we're able to guide the plane so low, i'm not familiar with the area around the Pentagon, so i'm assuming the land around was quite flat.

[Carbon Copy]

interestingly enough there's a conspiracy theory about how the US govt faked going to the moon
the whole moon conspiracy pisses me off....so where did the rocket go once it left the atmosphere? just chill for a while or not. the moon isnt really that far away in aerospace lingo

[Gary]

the whole moon conspiracy pisses me off....so where did the rocket go once it left the atmosphere? just chill for a while or not. the moon isnt really that far away in aerospace lingo

is that really hard to believe? just chillin in outer space, not much to it.

[MonkeySex]

I'm not saying I believe this but I find it really hard for someone who trained on smaller aircrafts, to fly a 757 (or whatever it was) in to the penatgon. And if there were those extra video footages you would think they would be released. I mean they don't hold back on the footage for the WTC. Just makes you think.

[saygoodbye12]

I'm not saying I believe this but I find it really hard for someone who trained on smaller aircrafts, to fly a 757 (or whatever it was) in to the penatgon. And if there were those extra video footages you would think they would be released. I mean they don't hold back on the footage for the WTC. Just makes you think.
Does it make you think about how dumb you have to be to actually even think this is possible?

[marco j]

i just watched the film ...and....uuuh. i need a while to form a logical explanation to how or where the actual flight 77 is or went?!? or possibly there never was a flight 77. i will say a minute or two into the film when you
see the 'puncture holes' into the pentagon ...and when you see the last
'hole' that punches through!!?!??!? very weird . some windows intact?!?!
that also could have been manipulated or if real highly unlikely. i think right at this moment to me the most credible piece of info is the photos of the punctured holes through the pentagon. those just don' look like something created from a plane. the first two walls would have been enough to shred a plane. also i do believe we should have seen more wreckage , this i have said to my wife since the incident, but at that time i had never seen footage of interior damage. the punture holes resemble missile damage quite well. i am now going to show this to a pilot i know that flew for the airforce.

[saygoodbye12]

i just watched the film ...and....uuuh. i need a while to form a logical explanation to how or where the actual flight 77 is or went?!? or possibly there never was a flight 77.
There was a Flight 77. Phone calls were made from the actual flight once it was hijacked. Next?

[cyberhound]

i just watched the film ...and....uuuh. i need a while to form a logical explanation to how or where the actual flight 77 is or went?!? or possibly there never was a flight 77. i will say a minute or two into the film when you
see the 'puncture holes' into the pentagon ...and when you see the last
'hole' that punches through!!?!??!? very weird . some windows intact?!?!
that also could have been manipulated or if real highly unlikely. i think right at this moment to me the most credible piece of info is the photos of the punctured holes through the pentagon. those just don' look like something created from a plane. the first two walls would have been enough to shred a plane. also i do believe we should have seen more wreckage , this i have said to my wife since the incident, but at that time i had never seen footage of interior damage. the punture holes resemble missile damage quite well. i am now going to show this to a pilot i know that flew for the airforce.If there never was a flight 77, where are those people? Are you a mechanical engineer? Just wondering how you know what holes created by a plane crashing into a building are supposed to look like and what walls should do to shred a plane. Do you examine missle damage to buildings on a regular basis? What exactly is your profession or area of expertise?

[marco j]

If there never was a flight 77, where are those people? Are you a mechanical engineer? Just wondering how you know what holes created by a plane crashing into a building are supposed to look like and what walls should do to shred a plane. Do you examine missle damage to buildings on a regular basis? What exactly is your profession or area of expertise?


listen i respect just about everything you say on these boards , but man you come across like such a dick sometimes.

my first question to you is.....why be so defensive about this??? why wouldn't it be logical to let "all footage" and information about this out???
if i for one had someone who died at the pentagon i would want to know without a doubt how they died. period . so again when people are told somethingelse than what they have been told from there own government it is OK to ask more questions. got it.

now to my expertise. i have none. other that watching the history channel and every other war machines or guy flavored piece of TV on cable. that is why i want my friend who had flown and fired missiles to watch this.
i would say that when a 'plane' crashes into something it immediately starts to come apart, thus losing some inertia. now after the next wall more of the same. in those pictures from the very inner walls theres is a nice round circular portion of the wall missing.
ok here's a better way to explain. an "uncontrolled" explosion will blow outwards in the path of "least" resistance. meaning after the first wall and second the actual blast that would occur would blow into the hallwas and rooms that have been penetrated ! the last hole looks as if something pushed through that last portion. i don't believe the plane pushed through after already smashing into a couple of reinforced walls. there simply wouldn't be enough solid plane left to do the actual damage AND if there were we would still have wreckage then to say it was definately a plane.

[cyberhound]

listen i respect just about everything you say on these boards , but man you come across like such a dick sometimes.

my first question to you is.....why be so defensive about this??? why wouldn't it be logical to let "all footage" and information about this out???
if i for one had someone who died at the pentagon i would want to know without a doubt how they died. period . so again when people are told somethingelse than what they have been told from there own government it is OK to ask more questions. got it.

now to my expertise. i have none. other that watching the history channel and every other war machines or guy flavored piece of TV on cable. that is why i want my friend who had flown and fired missiles to watch this.
i would say that when a 'plane' crashes into something it immediately starts to come apart, thus losing some inertia. now after the next wall more of the same. in those pictures from the very inner walls theres is a nice round circular portion of the wall missing.
ok here's a better way to explain. an "uncontrolled" explosion will blow outwards in the path of "least" resistance. meaning after the first wall and second the actual blast that would occur would blow into the hallwas and rooms that have been penetrated ! the last hole looks as if something pushed through that last portion. i don't believe the plane pushed through after already smashing into a couple of reinforced walls. there simply wouldn't be enough solid plane left to do the actual damage AND if there were we would still have wreckage then to say it was definately a plane.
Yeah, I'm a dick for simply asking what kind of expertise you have that would lead you to your conclusions. Of course, you have none. Ever stop to wonder when every one of those pictures was taken?

[saygoodbye12]

listen i respect just about everything you say on these boards , but man you come across like such a dick sometimes.

my first question to you is.....why be so defensive about this??? why wouldn't it be logical to let "all footage" and information about this out???
if i for one had someone who died at the pentagon i would want to know without a doubt how they died. period . so again when people are told somethingelse than what they have been told from there own government it is OK to ask more questions. got it.

now to my expertise. i have none. other that watching the history channel and every other war machines or guy flavored piece of TV on cable. that is why i want my friend who had flown and fired missiles to watch this.
i would say that when a 'plane' crashes into something it immediately starts to come apart, thus losing some inertia. now after the next wall more of the same. in those pictures from the very inner walls theres is a nice round circular portion of the wall missing.
ok here's a better way to explain. an "uncontrolled" explosion will blow outwards in the path of "least" resistance. meaning after the first wall and second the actual blast that would occur would blow into the hallwas and rooms that have been penetrated ! the last hole looks as if something pushed through that last portion. i don't believe the plane pushed through after already smashing into a couple of reinforced walls. there simply wouldn't be enough solid plane left to do the actual damage AND if there were we would still have wreckage then to say it was definately a plane.
I almost had faith from your first post that you would come to an intelligent logical solution.

I should have known better.

[marco j]

Yeah, I'm a dick for simply asking what kind of expertise you have that would lead you to your conclusions. Of course, you have none. Ever stop to wonder when every one of those pictures was taken?


again you come across like a pompous dick. yes i have thought of when the pictures where taken. from the looks of them since there is still smoke and stuff smoldering i'd say the first couple of days.
still the time of the pictures could possibly explain why no plane wreckage is seen because it has already been removed but it still doesn't explain why the explosion continued hrough the building like i tryed to explain. so once again instead of trying to be an ass why not just talk it through with me.

[Holla9]

If there never was a flight 77, where are those people? Are you a mechanical engineer? Just wondering how you know what holes created by a plane crashing into a building are supposed to look like and what walls should do to shred a plane. Do you examine missle damage to buildings on a regular basis? What exactly is your profession or area of expertise?

I'll have my friend look at it(although he probably has already) and ask him what he thinks. He is a mechanical engineer. If you don't mind me asking, whatis YOUR profession?

[marco j]

I almost had faith from your first post that you would come to an intelligent logical solution.

I should have known better.

what the fuck are you talking about?!?! i'm trying to figure out how a pretty fragile plane flying at 500 hundred miles an hour could buerst through a series of reinforced walls!?!? that's all.

explosions expand in the direction of least resistance. i'm curious how after breaking into the building , which would destroy most of the plane , that parts of it were still able to continue forward and penetrate another two walls ?!?! that's all i've been trying to get at.

[saygoodbye12]

what the fuck are you talking about?!?! i'm trying to figure out how a pretty fragile plane flying at 500 hundred miles an hour could buerst through a series of reinforced walls!?!? that's all.

explosions expand in the direction of least resistance. i'm curious how after breaking into the building , which would destroy most of the plane , that parts of it were still able to continue forward and penetrate another two walls ?!?! that's all i've been trying to get at.

If you think this is even remotely possible answer the questions I posted in this thread...or at least give me any LOGICAL explanation you can think of:

a) If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, How did they find the black boxes/voice recorder for flight 77 INSIDE the Pentagon? Did the government plant it?

b) Barbra Olson called her husband from the plane to tell him it had been hijacked. Were those "fake" hijackers planted by the government in case anyone actually did call home before they died?

c) WHERE IS FLIGHT 77? It really did exist and there really were people on it. Did the government crash it and then clean up the wreckage and all the people before anyone could see it?

d) Why exactly would the U.S. send a missile into the Pentagon on the same day hijackers flew planes into the WTC? Was it just a coincidence?

[cyberhound]

I'll have my friend look at it(although he probably has already) and ask him what he thinks. He is a mechanical engineer. If you don't mind me asking, whatis YOUR profession?
I'm a foodservice sales rep. That's why I don't speculate on missle or plane damage to buildings.

[marco j]

If you think this is even remotely possible answer the questions I posted in this thread...or at least give me any LOGICAL explanation you can think of:


a) If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, How did they find the black boxes/voice recorder for flight 77 INSIDE the Pentagon? Did the government plant it?

easily could have been planted. i never saw it get recovered so i have no way of knowing when it was recovered.

b) Barbra Olson called her husband from the plane to tell him it had been hijacked. Were those "fake" hijackers planted by the government in case anyone actually did call home before they died?

well if it was a conspiracy then i would say who is her husband ? who does he work for? and where is he now? and let's talk to the rest of the family's of the people who died on that flight. this is all implying there never was a flight77.

c) WHERE IS FLIGHT 77? It really did exist and there really were people on it. Did the government crash it and then clean up the wreckage and all the people before anyone could see it?

again where are the records of these people and flight?!? i would love to see more and more interviews with the surving family members. but if there is irrefutable evidence that this flight did exist and these people are no longer around then maybe it was flown somewherelse. and again i don't pretend to know any of this but it is fun to think it through.

d) Why exactly would the U.S. send a missile into the Pentagon on the same day hijackers flew planes into the WTC? Was it just a coincidence?

:confused: i haven't a clue. maybe someone at the pentagon needed to be taken out.

[haildmb]

yes, and not only this, but the holocaust didn't happen, and Neil Armstrong never walked on the moon.

People and their silly stupid ideas are so entertaining; and yet, frightening.

[marco j]

i think all this thread is about is maybe it wasn't an airliner that hit the pentagon.

[haildmb]

those just don' look like something created from a plane. the first two walls would have been enough to shred a plane. also i do believe we should have seen more wreckage , this i have said to my wife since the incident, but at that time i had never seen footage of interior damage. the punture holes resemble missile damage quite well. i am now going to show this to a pilot i know that flew for the airforce.

well, you have no idea what you're talking about, so that's that.

[haildmb]

i think all this thread is about is maybe it wasn't an airliner that hit the pentagon.

at face value. One level below that is the inherant idiocy required to believe that idea.

[saygoodbye12]

well if it was a conspiracy then i would say who is her husband ? who does he work for? and where is he now? and let's talk to the rest of the family's of the people who died on that flight. this is all implying there never was a flight77.

Forget about her husband, it's who she was. She had written a book all about Clinton and his last days in office. It wasn't very nice. Hillary tried to get it pulled off the presses. Plus, she was not so nice to Bill during his impeachment hearings.

The Clintons must be behind this!!!!

[haildmb]

Forget about her husband, it's who she was. She had written a book all about Clinton and his last days in office. It wasn't very nice. Hillary tried to get it pulled off the presses. Plus, she was not so nice to Bill during his impeachment hearings.

The Clintons must be behind this!!!!

*dun dun dun!*

[saygoodbye12]

i think all this thread is about is maybe it wasn't an airliner that hit the pentagon.
Better start wearing your tin foil hat!

[System]

but it's pretty amazing that the plane got that low to the ground.

Ya, planes get low to the ground all the time...it is called landing

[System]

anyone who believes this should just go ahead and do us a favor and kill themselves... we need to get the gene pool cleaned out just a little.

I agree.

[System]

If we can send people to the moon, I believe its possible to fake a plane crash into a building.

:BANG :BANG :BANG :BANG :BANG

It is not possible to fake a plane crash, the level of people that would have to known about this is huge.

The damage suggests the airplane crashed into the pentagon, anybody that believes other wise should read up on airplane crashes and damaged caused by them before considering themself an expert

[haildmb]

look people, if you want to spout silly conspiracy theory, it would be so much more plausible that the government headed the hijacking and crash of the plane, than the idea that the crash was faked and it was a missle or something like that.

[marco j]

Forget about her husband, it's who she was. She had written a book all about Clinton and his last days in office. It wasn't very nice. Hillary tried to get it pulled off the presses. Plus, she was not so nice to Bill during his impeachment hearings.

The Clintons must be behind this!!!!

i said who's her husband because he's still around. and it would be interesting to know who he works for. also i would like to know whoelse was on the plane.

again watched the footage and that last little hole in the buildings inner walls is not from a plane. looks like damage from a bunker buster .

[System]

A few things....
I'm not saying I believe this but I find it really hard for someone who trained on smaller aircrafts, to fly a 757 (or whatever it was) in to the penatgon.

All planes are the same. Just the operating procedures change

3 rules of flight

Lift must equal weight
Thrust must be greater than drag
and gravity always wins

. And if there were those extra video footages you would think they would be released. I mean they don't hold back on the footage for the WTC. Just makes you think.

Difference between the footage is the target. If they realesed one section of video from a secure government facility there would be a legal trail to have more realesed. So, why take the chance of that and just not realease the video

[marco j]

interesting but why do the feds have the right to confiscate videos from surroundin establishments?!?!

[saygoodbye12]

i said who's her husband because he's still around. and it would be interesting to know who he works for. also i would like to know whoelse was on the plane.
He's the Solicitor General under George W. Bush. More proof that it had to be the Clintons!

As for your second question:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/12/victim-capsule-flight77.htm

[System]

i just watched the film ...and....uuuh. i need a while to form a logical explanation to how or where the actual flight 77 is or went?!? or possibly there never was a flight 77. i will say a minute or two into the film when you
see the 'puncture holes' into the pentagon ...and when you see the last
'hole' that punches through!!?!??!? very weird . some windows intact?!?!
that also could have been manipulated or if real highly unlikely. i think right at this moment to me the most credible piece of info is the photos of the punctured holes through the pentagon. those just don' look like something created from a plane. the first two walls would have been enough to shred a plane. also i do believe we should have seen more wreckage , this i have said to my wife since the incident, but at that time i had never seen footage of interior damage. the punture holes resemble missile damage quite well. i am now going to show this to a pilot i know that flew for the airforce.

few comments

The pentagon is a bit stronger than just reinforced concrete. It is a nuclear hardened facitliy. Nuclear explosion around it...still function.

And i highly doubht those windows there are standard pain glass. More like, I don't know bullet proof glass, like all high importance military buildings have.

I expected to find less wreckages, Planes are made from Aluminum, Al melts at a low temp, planes carry jet fuel, jet fuel burns at a high temp, thus when it started to burn it melted the aircraft structure.

Don't talk to pilots, they just fly them. Talk to an engineer/physics guy cause they understand why aircraft fly.

[haildmb]

few comments

The pentagon is a bit stronger than just reinforced concrete. It is a nuclear hardened facitliy. Nuclear explosion around it...still function.

And i highly doubht those windows there are standard pain glass. More like, I don't know bullet proof glass, like all high importance military buildings have.

I expected to find less wreckages, Planes are made from Aluminum, Al melts at a low temp, planes carry jet fuel, jet fuel burns at a high temp, thus when it started to burn it melted the aircraft structure.

Don't talk to pilots, they just fly them. Talk to an engineer/physics guy cause they understand why aircraft fly.


this is all true.

[System]

listen i respect just about everything you say on these boards , but man you come across like such a dick sometimes.

my first question to you is.....why be so defensive about this??? why wouldn't it be logical to let "all footage" and information about this out???
if i for one had someone who died at the pentagon i would want to know without a doubt how they died. period . so again when people are told somethingelse than what they have been told from there own government it is OK to ask more questions. got it.

now to my expertise. i have none. other that watching the history channel and every other war machines or guy flavored piece of TV on cable. that is why i want my friend who had flown and fired missiles to watch this.
i would say that when a 'plane' crashes into something it immediately starts to come apart, thus losing some inertia. now after the next wall more of the same. in those pictures from the very inner walls theres is a nice round circular portion of the wall missing.
ok here's a better way to explain. an "uncontrolled" explosion will blow outwards in the path of "least" resistance. meaning after the first wall and second the actual blast that would occur would blow into the hallwas and rooms that have been penetrated ! the last hole looks as if something pushed through that last portion. i don't believe the plane pushed through after already smashing into a couple of reinforced walls. there simply wouldn't be enough solid plane left to do the actual damage AND if there were we would still have wreckage then to say it was definately a plane.

ya, so between you watching the history channel and you buddy pressing buttons to fire a missle i say we have a world class organization here to determine what really happened.

I will notify the press and tell them the 9-11 Commision was wrong. and you will be releaseing your report shortly

[System]

again watched the footage and that last little hole in the buildings inner walls is not from a plane. looks like damage from a bunker buster .

Bunker buster really? Ever see one of those go off? or understand why they can bust through bunkers?

Ya, didn't think so...

[System]

I'll have my friend look at it(although he probably has already) and ask him what he thinks. He is a mechanical engineer. If you don't mind me asking, whatis YOUR profession?

I am a mechanical engineer

I am also an aerospace engineer working on a major defense contract building airplanes.

I think this flash thing is horse crap

[System]

what the fuck are you talking about?!?! i'm trying to figure out how a pretty fragile plane flying at 500 hundred miles an hour could buerst through a series of reinforced walls!?!? that's all.

explosions expand in the direction of least resistance. i'm curious how after breaking into the building , which would destroy most of the plane , that parts of it were still able to continue forward and penetrate another two walls ?!?! that's all i've been trying to get at.

You want the equations or the simple term explination?

Simple term,

Planes don't jsut "fall apart" They are much stronger than you give them credit for.

That and the shear amount of energy that was traveling with it needed to go somewhere and just hitting 2 walls wasn't enough to slow it down.

[System]

a) If a plane didn't hit the Pentagon, How did they find the black boxes/voice recorder for flight 77 INSIDE the Pentagon? Did the government plant it?

easily could have been planted. i never saw it get recovered so i have no way of knowing when it was recovered.

b) Barbra Olson called her husband from the plane to tell him it had been hijacked. Were those "fake" hijackers planted by the government in case anyone actually did call home before they died?

well if it was a conspiracy then i would say who is her husband ? who does he work for? and where is he now? and let's talk to the rest of the family's of the people who died on that flight. this is all implying there never was a flight77.

c) WHERE IS FLIGHT 77? It really did exist and there really were people on it. Did the government crash it and then clean up the wreckage and all the people before anyone could see it?

again where are the records of these people and flight?!? i would love to see more and more interviews with the surving family members. but if there is irrefutable evidence that this flight did exist and these people are no longer around then maybe it was flown somewherelse. and again i don't pretend to know any of this but it is fun to think it through.

d) Why exactly would the U.S. send a missile into the Pentagon on the same day hijackers flew planes into the WTC? Was it just a coincidence?

:confused: i haven't a clue. maybe someone at the pentagon needed to be taken out.


Ya, so these answers prove to me you haven't a snowball's chance at hell at holding an intellegent coversation on this topic....

[System]

interesting but why do the feds have the right to confiscate videos from surroundin establishments?!?!


National Security. Anything they think could hurt the country they take. I believe they know more than we do cause, well it is there job to know. So if they say they can't release it due to national security issues i got no problem with taht.

[marco j]

National Security. Anything they think could hurt the country they take. I believe they know more than we do cause, well it is there job to know. So if they say they can't release it due to national security issues i got no problem with taht.

well i would want to know how does having footage of a plane flying past a sheraton equate to national security. i don't believe it's ok to label something national security and confiscate it.


i think it is quite sad how everybody attacked me when i even stated i was just trying to discuss the possibility, but what do i expect from a bunch of kids .
i don't even fully believe nor debunk this story. all i wanted to do was talk it through but hey this is a politcal forum bashing runs rampid.

[haildmb]

i think it is quite sad how everybody attacked me when i even stated i was just trying to discuss the possibility

It's not even worth discussion.

[saygoodbye12]

i think it is quite sad how everybody attacked me when i even stated i was just trying to discuss the possibility, but what do i expect from a bunch of kids .
i don't even fully believe nor debunk this story. all i wanted to do was talk it through but hey this is a politcal forum bashing runs rampid.
Don't try to blame your stupidity on us.

[Gary]

Ya, planes get low to the ground all the time...it is called landing

Except the area around the pentagon isn't that easily to navigate. They have said the plane made expert flight maneuvers to get there.

[marco j]

It's not even worth discussion.


then why even bother posting a reply?!?! :rolleyes:

you being one of the completley rude people commenting on top of it.

please if you didn't think it was worth discussing why bother to come in the middle of a discussion and start bashing??? quite immature.

[nonewdirections]

i would just suggest anyone that buys this conspiracy should really check out the snopes article.

[haildmb]

then why even bother posting a reply?!?! :rolleyes:

you being one of the completley rude people commenting on top of it.

please if you didn't think it was worth discussing why bother to come in the middle of a discussion and start bashing??? quite immature.

Because "rampid"(sic) stupidity, especially considering things of this magnitude, is quite frustrating.

[marco j]

i would just suggest anyone that buys this conspiracy should really check out the snopes article.

what's that? do you have a link? always love an interesting read.

[marco j]

Because "rampid"(sic) stupidity, especially considering things of this magnitude, is quite frustrating.




that's why so many people can't understand anyone would still vote for a moron like bush.

but anyways you don't have to bash someone for discussing something. it's immature rude and stupid as well.

[Gary]

It's not even worth discussion.


Don't try to blame your stupidity on us.

Way to keep an open mind people. I don't think anyone has interviewed family of that flight. And here's something about the Olsen thing:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/lies911/lies.htm

Plus, just because she called that the plane was hijacked doesn't mean it actually crashed into the pentagon. They could take the plane to the landing strip behind the pentagon and do whatever to the pentagon. Then the plane has been seen by all those people. Possible? Yes. But not probable. I'm just trying to show you how this could be possible, since you make fun of everyone who tries to have a conversation about it and suggest they go kill themselves.

[Gary]

i would just suggest anyone that buys this conspiracy should really check out the snopes article.

Except that refutes the French book, which while has similar accusations, is not the same thing.

[haildmb]

an open mind about political issues, religion, things of that sort, is commendable.

An open mind about impossibilities is pointless and wasteful.

[marco j]

an open mind about political issues, religion, things of that sort, is commendable.

An open mind about impossibilities is pointless and wasteful.


impossible???? :rolleyes: OK

[Gary]

an open mind about political issues, religion, things of that sort, is commendable.

An open mind about impossibilities is pointless and wasteful.

It's not impossible. Just improbable. Something like this challenges someone's beliefs and their knee-jerk reaction is to dispell it as stupid and impossible, without considering any evidence.

Anyway, I wonder if any of you have heard of operation Northwood from a long time ago:

"When U.S. Joint Chiefs Planned
Terror Attacks on America
by Edward Spannaus

According to documents that were intended to have been destroyed almost 40 years ago, top levels of the U.S. military proposed carrying out acts of terrorism against the United States in the early 1960s, in order to drag the United States into a war against Cuba."

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2839operation_northwds.html

I initially read about it on ABC news, I'll try to find that source if you don't believe all the others.

[haildmb]

that's kind of what i'm saying though: it's much more plausible to believe that the government had conducted/promoted the hijacking/crashing of the aircraft than the idea that it didn't happen and was faked.

Now, both are false. But only one is plausible.

[Gary]

Here is the ABC News link:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html

Anyone who doesn't think a government would ever attack their own people should read that. Very interesting.

I agree that it's more possible they hijacked them, or allowed it. We won't know what really happened for a long time, if ever, similar to JFK. In fact, these documents were released somewhat due to the movie JFK, according to that article.

[chevman]

How does everyone refute the HUNDREDS of people who saw the plane crash into the Pentagon?

Two of my good college buddies were starting jobs with the DC police dept. at the time, and were right across the street when the plane came in. They SAW IT HIT THE PENTAGON and were some of the first people on the scene helping rescue people. I really don't see how all these eyewitness acounts can be refuted.

That's not to say you can't come up with bizarre conspiracy theories though, but when they are looked at in the larger scope of all the evidence, it becomes pretty damn obvious that an actual plane crashed into the pentagon that morning. Either that, or thousands of people are in on the biggest conspiracy EVER in our country. Which seems more likely to you?

[saygoodbye12]

Way to keep an open mind people. I don't think anyone has interviewed family of that flight. And here's something about the Olsen thing:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steveseymour/lies911/lies.htm

Plus, just because she called that the plane was hijacked doesn't mean it actually crashed into the pentagon. They could take the plane to the landing strip behind the pentagon and do whatever to the pentagon. Then the plane has been seen by all those people. Possible? Yes. But not probable. I'm just trying to show you how this could be possible, since you make fun of everyone who tries to have a conversation about it and suggest they go kill themselves.
They landed the plane behind the Pentagon? :lol:lol

You can't be serious. No it's not possible. Unless you're an idiot.

See the better argument here would be, perhaps the government knew the plane was being hijacked and would fly into the Pentagon because that flight went way off the map, and supposedly they had time to shoot it down, but didn't.

But to tell me that a missile hit the Pentagon and that they "possibly" LANDED the plane behind the Pentagon (with NO ONE seeing it) is stupid and while I haven't said you should kill yourself, if you truly believe that, it might not be such a bad idea.

As for your Ted Olson link, did you actually read it? Some people in this world really truly scare me. So now the Todd Beamer phone call with an airplane phone operator is a hoax too? So we're not only being duped by our government, but they have now involved the media in this whole lie.

So if you believe a missile hit the Pentagon, do you think the attacks on the Twin Towers were carried out by our government as well?

[cyberhound]

What I want to know from the resident members of the Keepers Of Odd Knowlege Society in this thread is who shot the missle at the Pentagon, what kind of missle it was, why was it shot at the Pentagon, where are those people that were on Flight 77, and where is the actual plane? Surely they must be able to deduce these things since they can deduce it wasn't a plane but a missle...

[Number27]

This thread if sull of shit...

[MonkeySex]

Does it make you think about how dumb you have to be to actually even think this is possible?
Maybe if you read the entire quote I said that I don't believe this. And I do find this theory interesting. Does it mean I believe it? No.

[MonkeySex]

And just becuase I'm thinking about the possibilities doesn't make dumb asshole.

[mmazz72]

i don't pretend to know that there is some sort of government conspiracy going on...nor do i pretend to care. but in reference to the comment below.

So we're not only being duped by our government, but they have now involved the media in this whole lie.

you say this like it's completely ridiculous. do you really have a hard time believing that the government and/or media could lie to us? if you do...you may be the one who's truly stupid.

[System]

please if you didn't think it was worth discussing why bother to come in the middle of a discussion and start bashing??? quite immature.


So far, you are the only one that thinks this is worthy of a discussion.

and don't always blame people bashing you and not agreeing with you on maturity. maturity has nothing to do with common sense.



ANd on a side note, the sheer magnitude of the deception that would have to be involved for a missle to hit the pentegon and not the airplane is astronomical.

Besides, only a few countries posses missles that big to attack a ground based target.

[saygoodbye12]

you say this like it's completely ridiculous. do you really have a hard time believing that the government and/or media could lie to us? if you do...you may be the one who's truly stupid.
Yes because that's exactly what I said.

[Gary]

So if you believe a missile hit the Pentagon, do you think the attacks on the Twin Towers were carried out by our government as well?

Thanks for your death wish of the day.

That would be easier to believe, however about the only way would be to remote control them into the buildings. Not likely.

[mmazz72]

Yes because that's exactly what I said.
ok then. thank for answering the question. :)

[Daevian]

I always enjoy a good government deception story. A few questions for those that might know...

What kind of plane was Flight 77?

Was it a 757?

Is the wing span of the plane as wide as the hole it made?

I don't think something so big could be used as cover up for anything. Much too hard really for whatever the cause may be. Like I said earlier possible not probable.

[nonewdirections]

Except that refutes the French book, which while has similar accusations, is not the same thing.
did the trick to prove to me that this idea is total bullshit. it was a compelling flash vid, but the snopes article soundly debunked it.

[mantra4]

this thread sucks

[jrock5730]

Its hard to believe this thread has also turned into a big argument. I don't understand why people have to be so offended by this. There are conspiracy theories all over the place, and this is just that. The government should come out and make a statement on this, in my opinion. I would imagine that someone who lost a loved one on Flight 77 has seen this, and if it was me, my ass would be mad as hell. I would want answers, and I would want them right away.

[System]

Is the wing span of the plane as wide as the hole it made?



Wing spans have incredeble strength in the vertical direction. They have relatively weak strength in the horizontal direction

My educated guess is that they plane came in so fast and so full of kinetic eneregy that the wings folded back and folled the plane's body into the hole in the building. The resulting fire from the wing fuel tanks caused the structure to melt thus not leaving very little trace of the aircraft at the crash scene

[Gary]

Wing spans have incredeble strength in the vertical direction. They have relatively weak strength in the horizontal direction

My educated guess is that they plane came in so fast and so full of kinetic eneregy that the wings folded back and folled the plane's body into the hole in the building. The resulting fire from the wing fuel tanks caused the structure to melt thus not leaving very little trace of the aircraft at the crash scene

good analysis

[dmb1spe]

According to the guy who built the site I saw, he says the plane was taken to another airstrip in the Penssylvania/Delaware area that was military. The passengers and crew were then basically killed (exploded) and shipped to the morgue. As someone who has researched it a bit, it is a FACT that the "remains" of the plane crash arrived at the makeshift morgue at a different time than those in the Pentagon. The author goes on to state it's more than likely a drone, guided in. He also points to a large "mark" in the pentagon lawan almost singaling a flight path to the impact sight. However, once he begins to relate it all to the illumanati, he loses me.

[pkpro1]

What so interesting about it?
you enjoy living up to your sig don't you?

[cyberhound]

you enjoy living up to your sig don't you?That's why I'm asking you questions and not arguing with you.

[sliver108]

I saw that video and researched a little on it. I just don’t know how there was no sufficient warning given to the people that work in side of the Pentagon. I mean it is only one of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world! So nothing is fishy then we need to find out why the billions we spend on security is not working. I mean it wasn’t like a stealth plane. And please don’t mention the fact that the tracker was turned off on the plane… we still have radar! So any ideas about how we just missed an 80+ ton plane flying towards the pentagon (headquarters of the Department of DEFENCE!) right after 2 planes hit TWC? I am just playing devils advocate hear but something isn’t right!

[wedge914]

I saw that video and researched a little on it. I just don’t know how there was no sufficient warning given to the people that work in side of the Pentagon. I mean it is only one of the most heavily guarded airspace in the world! So nothing is fishy then we need to find out why the billions we spend on security is not working. I mean it wasn’t like a stealth plane. And please don’t mention the fact that the tracker was turned off on the plane… we still have radar! So any ideas about how we just missed an 80+ ton plane flying towards the pentagon (headquarters of the Department of DEFENCE!) right after 2 planes hit TWC? I am just playing devils advocate hear but something isn’t right!
It's also worth noting that the 9/11 Commission said that the plane circled DC several times searching for the White House before picking the Pentagon.

[sliver108]

It's also worth noting that the 9/11 Commission said that the plane circled DC several times searching for the White House before picking the Pentagon.
Realy now........ very interesting! Either way we should be unhappy about something, don't you think?

[quick turtle]

NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING. Sounds like we have a lot of Bush votes in the room.

Why get so defensive about people asking questions? Why so afraid?


and all politics aside, don't you find it amazing that the supposed pilot who had very little training could fly that close to the ground and hit the Pentagon dead on? Part of the government's story given to the media was that the hijackers told their flight instructors that they had no interest in learning how to land.

[cyberhound]

NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING. Sounds like we have a lot of Bush votes in the room.

Why get so defensive about people asking questions? Why so afraid?


and all politics aside, don't you find it amazing that the supposed pilot who had very little training could fly that close to the ground and hit the Pentagon dead on? Part of the government's story given to the media was that the hijackers told their flight instructors that they had no interest in learning how to land.
Here's a thought. Why don't you answer those questions logically and with some evidence of expertise or even a shred of proof. I see lot's of amazing and improbable things all the time. Improbable doesn't mean impossible. Perhaps you have some proof to back up those questions? Don't be afraid, show some proof.

[System]

NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING. Sounds like we have a lot of Bush votes in the room.

Why get so defensive about people asking questions? Why so afraid?


and all politics aside, don't you find it amazing that the supposed pilot who had very little training could fly that close to the ground and hit the Pentagon dead on? Part of the government's story given to the media was that the hijackers told their flight instructors that they had no interest in learning how to land.


Um, back in the 60s they trained monkeys to fly. I personally wonder how hard it is to train a human.

You can also learn how to fly on a computer game by the way as well.

[Gary]

This is a really good page arguing that it was indeed a 757:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

[AnyonebutBush]

Well as we all know our Government loves to be right , so why dont they release the real security tapes to prove it to be false? I mean it is the Pentagon they probably not only have it taped from 36,445,778 differnt angles but from satelites images as well.

[AnyonebutBush]

NEVER QUESTION ANYTHING. Sounds like we have a lot of Bush votes in the room.

Why get so defensive about people asking questions? Why so afraid?


and all politics aside, don't you find it amazing that the supposed pilot who had very little training could fly that close to the ground and hit the Pentagon dead on? Part of the government's story given to the media was that the hijackers told their flight instructors that they had no interest in learning how to land.Yeah it must be nice just believing everything you hear , for the people with thier own minds its very difficult figuring out whats real and whats not.

[System]

Well as we all know our Government loves to be right , so why dont they release the real security tapes to prove it to be false? I mean it is the Pentagon they probably not only have it taped from 36,445,778 differnt angles but from satelites images as well.

Cause the penegon is a top secret facility. The moment you release tapes you start a legal precedent that allows other tapes to be released. Called national security.

Other than that, i don't konw what else to tell you.

[cyberhound]

Yeah it must be nice just believing everything you hear , for the people with thier own minds its very difficult figuring out whats real and whats not.
Well then, perhaps it is you that can provide credible evidence with some sort of expertise to back up the theory that something other than a 757 called Flight 77 hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2004. Surely you can enlighten those who believe everything they hear and help them use their own minds with information that will at the very least cast great doubt on the accepted events of the day.

[pkpro1]

That's why I'm asking you questions and not arguing with you.
all the same. one usually leads to the other. the flash video was interesting- i figured it would start a discussion (apparently i was right).

if that doesn't satisfy your ever-so-curious mind, you can go look for your needle in some other haystack

[Daevian]

Well then, perhaps it is you that can provide credible evidence with some sort of expertise to back up the theory that something other than a 757 called Flight 77 hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2004. Surely you can enlighten those who believe everything they hear and help them use their own minds with information that will at the very least cast great doubt on the accepted events of the day.
I can.

Last time I checked nothing hit the pentagon in 2004.:D

Oh geez I just couldn't resist.

[pkpro1]

lol..

[cyberhound]

all the same. one usually leads to the other. the flash video was interesting- i figured it would start a discussion (apparently i was right).

if that doesn't satisfy your ever-so-curious mind, you can go look for your needle in some other haystack
I'll do that while you continue to pretend to be a libertarian.

[AnyonebutBush]

Well then, perhaps it is you that can provide credible evidence with some sort of expertise to back up the theory that something other than a 757 called Flight 77 hit the Pentagon on 9/11/2004. Surely you can enlighten those who believe everything they hear and help them use their own minds with information that will at the very least cast great doubt on the accepted events of the day.I cant provide credible evidence for either side, but by knowing the history of our Government I wouldnt be suprised either way.

[AnyonebutBush]

Cause the penegon is a top secret facility. The moment you release tapes you start a legal precedent that allows other tapes to be released. Called national security.

Other than that, i don't konw what else to tell you.So if its all about "top secret" why would you believe anything they say?

[JustinRIT]

*poops in thread*

sorry Jon.

[nonewdirections]

This is a really good page arguing that it was indeed a 757:

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html
thank you! i am surprised the other side of this argument still lasts.

[pkpro1]

I'll do that while you continue to pretend to be a libertarian.
and while you pretend to pose intelligent

[cyberhound]

and while you pretend to pose intelligentThis from someone who pushes Michael Moore, cannot comprehend the constitution, and finds conspiracy theories with no shred of proof interesting. That and your post isn't even coherent.

[pkpro1]

This from someone who pushes Michael Moore, cannot comprehend the constitution, and finds conspiracy theories with no shred of proof interesting. That and your post isn't even coherent.

my opinion of moore is different than yours. enough said.

both of us know laws can be read respectively in loose/strict ways.

what i find interesting need not be to you, and vice versa.

my post was plenty coherent.... but it seems as though you're stalking me.
thanks for attempting to keep tab sweetheart. i'm flattered.

unfortunately, i'm not single.

[mantra4]

and while you pretend to pose intelligent
...
my post was plenty coherent....
um... no, not really

[ShutUpNRide05]

My friend Ashley's dad was killed in the Pentagon disaster on September 11th. I sat next to her in my first block class and watched the entire thing, along with almost everyone else in America. My mom heard the crash from her office. Believe that bullshit or don't, either way, people died. The least we can do is respect them.

[davehead86]

Just so that everyone knows your not an idiot for asking questions :twak , and your not disrespecting anyone who died on 9-11, im sorry for anyone who lost someone that day,

and i dont claim to be an accident investigator but i was just curious as to what proof the other side had against this argument.

Its a very interesting argument, highly unlikley but interesting. I can defintally see why people would think that a small plane crashed into the building. I can also see why there is undoubtable arguments for the large plane - voice recorders, phone calls, 100+ dead people, i missing plane.

But i also do remember why i hate ants for political descusions cause everyone feels it nessecary to insult the other people into submission.