It's Over Gang: Deal with it!

[TypicalTimes06]

The good news however, Nader isn't hurting Kerry. Kerry is Texas Toast all on his own.

Selected, not elected? How about landslide, not even close?


2004 Presidential Race - 3 Way PollDate
Bush/
Cheney
Kerry/
Edwards
Nader/
Camejo
Spread
RCP Average
9/6 - 9/10
49.4%
42.9%
2.0%
Bush +6.5
Newsweek (1003 RV) (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040911/nysa006_1.html)
9/9 - 9/10
49%
43%
2%
Bush +6
Zogby (1018 LV) (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=863)
9/8 - 9/9
46%
42%
2%
Bush +4
Time (LV) (http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,695528,00.html)
9/7 - 9/9
52%
41%
3%
Bush +11
AP/Ipsos (899 LV) (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131912,00.html)
9/7 - 9/9
51%
46%
1%
Bush +5
FOX/Opin. Dyn. (1000 LV) (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131912,00.html)
9/7 - 9/8
47%
43%
3%
Bush +4
ABC News/Wash Post (LV) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/polltrend_090804.html)
9/6 - 9/8
52%
43%
2%
Bush +9
CBS News (909 RV) (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/09/opinion/polls/main642108.shtml)
9/6 - 9/8
49%
42%
1%
Bush +7

[yin_yang]

yeah, Bush has officially won the Sept 11th election. now let's see how he does in the REAL election in 2 months.

[mantra4]

polls are stupid... and even mr. al gore can tell you that getting a simple majority of the vote doesn't necissarily mean you win.

[DMBSignGuy]

yea last time i checked one doesnt win by getting the popular vote....either way, we'll see what happens after the debates.

[drumdawgone]

VOTE people !!!!! its going to be close...too bad this great land is split right down the middle. its amazing the small minds that call themselves americans.....single issue voters....damn shame guns and tax breaks get people on the band-wagon...unable to see the big picture....dont even care about the big picture for that matter....we should be thinking as a whole and taking care of our own...........

[Evans]

polls mean nothing really, and when you look at the margin of error it means even less...you have to consider the number of people polled, the type of people polled, where the polling took place, if there was any tainting, etc, etc,...

I'll be soooo happy if Bush wins, and if Kerry wins I will accept it and get behind him (and then edwards will bitch slap me for taking his place)....no seriously though, I will get behind him figuratively speaking and hope that he doesn't completely screw up the country or allow a terrorist attack. If Kerry wins, I will consider his presidency a success in my mind as long as (1) he continues the war on terror as effectively or more so than Bush has, (2) does not allow a terror attack in the US in a post-9/11 world on his watch (as Bush has done up to this point by strengthening and supporting the dept. of HS), and (3) continues or at least maintains the economic growth our country is experiencing in a post 9/11 world. If he can at least do these three things, I will be content with him (not happy about his stance on abortion though, but i guess i'll have to live with millions of unborn human beings being murdered before birth for four more years...how long will we allow this unresponsible holocaust continue?...not that Bush has lived up to his word on the abortion issue, but he has had more to deal with, so i can give him a little slack...just a little, but if Bush gets re-elected I will look for him to move on the abortion issue...we'll see i guess)

[Dr. Strangelove]

Another thing to consider: the people polled in these elections are all previous voters. There are going to be so many people who have never voted before registering to vote in this election it isn't even funny. I personally know several.

[Warehouse21]

Another thing to consider: the people polled in these elections are all previous voters. There are going to be so many people who have never voted before registering to vote in this election it isn't even funny. I personally know several.
:thumbsup that's exactly right.

[marco j]

polls mean nothing really, and when you look at the margin of error it means even less...you have to consider the number of people polled, the type of people polled, where the polling took place, if there was any tainting, etc, etc,...

I'll be soooo happy if Bush wins, and if Kerry wins I will accept it and get behind him (and then edwards will bitch slap me for taking his place)....no seriously though, I will get behind him figuratively speaking and hope that he doesn't completely screw up the country or allow a terrorist attack. If Kerry wins, I will consider his presidency a success in my mind as long as (1) he continues the war on terror as effectively or more so than Bush has, (2) does not allow a terror attack in the US in a post-9/11 world on his watch (as Bush has done up to this point by strengthening and supporting the dept. of HS), and (3) continues or at least maintains the economic growth our country is experiencing in a post 9/11 world. If he can at least do these three things, I will be content with him (not happy about his stance on abortion though, but i guess i'll have to live with millions of unborn human beings being murdered before birth for four more years...how long will we allow this unresponsible holocaust continue?...not that Bush has lived up to his word on the abortion issue, but he has had more to deal with, so i can give him a little slack...just a little, but if Bush gets re-elected I will look for him to move on the abortion issue...we'll see i guess)


let me guess just outlaw abortions right!?!?

fuck when will people learn that by outlawing something it doesn't go away?!?!? :BANG

[cyberhound]

let me guess just outlaw abortions right!?!?

fuck when will people learn that by outlawing something it doesn't go away?!?!? :BANG
Are you for gun control? Or bans?

[marco j]

Are you for gun control? Or bans?


control.

[nonewdirections]

i guess i'd better just not vote then ...

[chevman]

wasn't bush #1 ahead by a similar margin in the 92 election? and then we all know what happened to him....

the similarities are striking - war time president, shitty economy, etc.

[cyberhound]

wasn't bush #1 ahead by a similar margin in the 92 election? and then we all know what happened to him....

the similarities are striking - war time president, shitty economy, etc.
This war is not over. And the economy isn't that shitty. Wasn't really that shitty under Bush #1 though either.

[haildmb]

This war is not over. And the economy isn't that shitty. Wasn't really that shitty under Bush #1 though either.


plus, Kerry << Clinton

[Mickey Carson]

This war is not over. And the economy isn't that shitty. Wasn't really that shitty under Bush #1 though either.
The unemployment rate during Bush #1 steadily increased during his Presidency and was @ 7.8% by the time he left office. It steadily decreased while Clinton was in office and the unemployment rate was under 4% when Clinton left office. It has again steadily increased during Bush's Presidency but has dipped this year, down to 5.4%. I don't know what you mean by "isn't that shitty." But the economy in terms of unemployment statistics and obviously national deficit, is much shittier now than it has been in the past decade.

[cyberhound]

The unemployment rate during Bush #1 steadily increased during his Presidency and was @ 7.8% by the time he left office. It steadily decreased while Clinton was in office and the unemployment rate was under 4% when Clinton left office. It has again steadily increased during Bush's Presidency but has dipped this year, down to 5.4%. I don't know what you mean by "isn't that shitty." But the economy in terms of unemployment statistics and obviously national deficit, is much shittier now than it has been in the past decade.
The percentage of debt to GDP isn't that bad. And unemployment in a changing economy isn't unexpected. The economy was due for a correction. So, no, the economy isn't that shitty. Especially given certain events that have taken place in the last 3 years. Being able to remember the Nixon, Ford, and Carter years, I can assure you that the short recessions we had under both Bush's (you conveniently left out that the current recession had it's genesis in the Clinton years) aren't nearly so bad.

[Evans]

let me guess just outlaw abortions right!?!?

fuck when will people learn that by outlawing something it doesn't go away?!?!? :BANG

Obviously I know it would continue in some other form, but at least it wouldn't be as easy for those people to just go have one, and you know what? It shouldn't be...its murder, and if some chick ends up bleeding to death trying to perform a coat hanger abortion then oh well, maybe she should've been responsible in life...and hey, if you die trying to kill your own baby, you kinda deserved it. Thats the straight up no compromises truth that this country is in need of. The situation as it is now isn't exactly all roses, we as a nation are standing idle as millions of unborn children are killed. Its disgusting, and so are those who partake in it.

[saygoodbye12]

Obviously I know it would continue in some other form, but at least it wouldn't be as easy for those people to just go have one, and you know what? It shouldn't be...its murder, and if some chick ends up bleeding to death trying to perform a coat hanger abortion then oh well, maybe she should've been responsible in life...and hey, if you die trying to kill your own baby, you kinda deserved it. Thats the straight up no compromises truth that this country is in need of. The situation as it is now isn't exactly all roses, we as a nation are standing idle as millions of unborn children are killed. Its disgusting, and so are those who partake in it.
And the kid who is born deformed because the coat hanger didn't kill him deserves it too!

Just curious, are you willing to have your taxes raised in order to support these millions of children who will now be born? I always find it funny how people advocate so much for the child to be born but once it is, they no longer give a shit about it.

[AggieDMBFan06]

Obviously I know it would continue in some other form, but at least it wouldn't be as easy for those people to just go have one, and you know what? It shouldn't be...its murder, and if some chick ends up bleeding to death trying to perform a coat hanger abortion then oh well, maybe she should've been responsible in life...and hey, if you die trying to kill your own baby, you kinda deserved it. Thats the straight up no compromises truth that this country is in need of. The situation as it is now isn't exactly all roses, we as a nation are standing idle as millions of unborn children are killed. Its disgusting, and so are those who partake in it.
I am in agreement with your statement here mate but i think there should be a loophole or whatever it may be called for those women who are raped and get pregnant. But, if a girl gets pregnant its her fault and mistake and she should live with it. I know if i were to get a girl pregnant id be man enough to sack up and deal with the situation that is infront of me. (knock on wood) :thumbsup

[tdowe99]

Evans, all I can say is that if you don't like something, it's not your right to prohibit other people from doing it. There's a reason it's called Pro-Choice. It's not Pro-Death. It's Pro-Choice. The choice to not ruin your life by bringing in an unwanted child into the world. It's not fair for the baby, and it's not fair for the mother.

[chevman]

The situation as it is now isn't exactly all roses, we as a nation are standing idle as millions of unborn children are killed. Its disgusting, and so are those who partake in it.

If they are unborn, then it's kind of hard to murder them, as you claim so many are doing.

The issue is not really about life and death though, as those on the anti-abortion side would have you believe, as we will NEVER be able to define when a life starts. If we could, then this debate would be easy.

As it stands now though, it is more a debate about choice - do you want the govt to choose how a woman uses her body, or do you want the woman to determine how she uses her body? Frankly, I don't trust the govt to make that choice, and the next logical person to make it is the person themself. Pretty simple really, but how complicated the debate has become!

[ss10mets]

The percentage of debt to GDP isn't that bad.

Actually our percentage of debt is over 5% to our GDP which under WTO guidelines is very bad, not sure but I think they make countries correct this after lending money to them.

[Mickey Carson]

The percentage of debt to GDP isn't that bad...Being able to remember the Nixon, Ford, and Carter years, I can assure you that the short recessions we had under both Bush's aren't nearly so bad.

Um...do you have any idea what you're talking about? Looking at the debt to GDP percentage, it's higher now than it was during Nixon, Ford, or Carter's administration. And it's predicted that the percentage will be at a 50-year all-time high shortly.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

[cyberhound]

Um...do you have any idea what you're talking about? Looking at the debt to GDP percentage, it's higher now than it was during Nixon, Ford, or Carter's administration. And it's predicted that the percentage will be at a 50-year all-time high shortly.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.htmlMore accurately, when you are considering a deficit the critical measure is not the dollar amount. The severity of a deficit is measured by percentages; more particularly, the percentage of your total economy.

Look at it this way. Let's say that your family spends $5,000 more than it makes in 2003. Is that bad? If you only make $25,000 year, it's bad. To eliminate your deficit you have to cut your spending by 20%. But what if your total income is $500,000? Then you only have to cut your spending by 1%.

In the past the United States has suffered under deficits equal to 6% of the GDP, and more. This deficit will be just under 4% of the GDP. This is NOT a record.

Now .. having said this, federal spending is increasing under George Bush at a rate that makes Clinton look like a miser. Bush is a big part of this spending with his education bill and other big-government spending measures. He has yet to veto one single spending bill, and gave us one of the most expensive spending programs we've seen in decades; the free drugs for old folks program. Here is a good reason to be showing discontent with the Bush Administration. In the first two Bush budget years federal spending has increased by an inflation-adjusted 5.3% per year. How does that compare with other administrations?

Carter 4.2%
Reagan, first term 3.5%
Reagan, second term 1.8%
George Bush1.9%
Clinton, first term 1.0%
Clinton, sencond term 1.9%
George W. Bush (first two years)5.3%

And, the problems aren't necessarily due to tax cuts, though with a war and a taste for buying votes, Bush's tax cuts were ill advised and probably not necessary. According to the Office of Management and Budget, lower revenues due to economic conditions are responsible for 53 percent of the turnaround from projected surpluses to projected deficits. Increased spending is responsible for another 24 percent. The tax cuts only account, even in a static analysis, for 23 percent of the turnaround.

In other words, if the tax cuts hadn't been adopted, the federal government would still be facing a budget deficit of at least $278 billion, or $437 billion excluding the Social Security surplus. And that assumes utterly no stimulative effect from the tax cuts, including the 2001 rebate originated by the Democrats.

[Evans]

And the kid who is born deformed because the coat hanger didn't kill him deserves it too!

Just curious, are you willing to have your taxes raised in order to support these millions of children who will now be born? I always find it funny how people advocate so much for the child to be born but once it is, they no longer give a shit about it.

yes, I am willing to have taxes raised if that is what it takes to end this holocaust half our country wrongly justifies.

Evans, all I can say is that if you don't like something, it's not your right to prohibit other people from doing it. There's a reason it's called Pro-Choice. It's not Pro-Death. It's Pro-Choice. The choice to not ruin your life by bringing in an unwanted child into the world. It's not fair for the baby, and it's not fair for the mother.

There are so many things wrong with your statement, I do not know where to begin. I'll never convince you that you are wrong, so I'll just say that I disagree with your point and move on.


If they are unborn, then it's kind of hard to murder them, as you claim so many are doing.

The issue is not really about life and death though, as those on the anti-abortion side would have you believe, as we will NEVER be able to define when a life starts. If we could, then this debate would be easy.

As it stands now though, it is more a debate about choice - do you want the govt to choose how a woman uses her body, or do you want the woman to determine how she uses her body? Frankly, I don't trust the govt to make that choice, and the next logical person to make it is the person themself. Pretty simple really, but how complicated the debate has become!

Same goes for you chevman, soooooo many things wrong with your statements, and I think you know what my response will be. So lemme get this straight, since we can "NEVER" define when life begins, then THAT MAKES IT OKAY TO JUST HAVE A BIG OLE ABORTION PARTY?! If anything, using your argument of never being able to know, wouldn't one err on the side of life? Disgusting...

[tdowe99]

There are so many things wrong with your statement, I do not know where to begin. I'll never convince you that you are wrong, so I'll just say that I disagree with your point and move on.

Same with your point of view. I'll never sway you, so I won't bother trying. I'll just be happy when "my side" wins the battle cuz it's right.

[DMBSignGuy]

yes, I am willing to have taxes raised if that is what it takes to end this holocaust half our country wrongly justifies.


unfortunatly most similar minded people, ie pro-life, arent willing to do that.

[TheJCLer]

Same with your point of view. I'll never sway you, so I won't bother trying. I'll just be happy when "my side" wins the battle cuz it's right.
you're correct, slaughtering helpless children is definitely right. have fun in hell, dude. :devil

[tdowe99]

:lol I have to believe in Hell first.

[gloco]

....no seriously though, I will get behind him figuratively speaking and hope that he doesn't completely screw up the country or allow a terrorist attack.

Like Bush did eh? Bush does more harm than good during this term. Of course, the conservatives think everything is fine and dandy.

[mantra4]

you're correct, slaughtering helpless children is definitely right. have fun in hell, dude. :devil dipshit

[DreemingTree]

The good news however, Nader isn't hurting Kerry. Kerry is Texas Toast all on his own.

Selected, not elected? How about landslide, not even close?


2004 Presidential Race - 3 Way PollDate
Bush/
Cheney
Kerry/
Edwards
Nader/
Camejo
Spread
RCP Average
9/6 - 9/10
49.4%
42.9%
2.0%
Bush +6.5
Newsweek (1003 RV) (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/040911/nysa006_1.html)
9/9 - 9/10
49%
43%
2%
Bush +6
Zogby (1018 LV) (http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=863)
9/8 - 9/9
46%
42%
2%
Bush +4
Time (LV) (http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,695528,00.html)
9/7 - 9/9
52%
41%
3%
Bush +11
AP/Ipsos (899 LV) (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131912,00.html)
9/7 - 9/9
51%
46%
1%
Bush +5
FOX/Opin. Dyn. (1000 LV) (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,131912,00.html)
9/7 - 9/8
47%
43%
3%
Bush +4
ABC News/Wash Post (LV) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/polls/polltrend_090804.html)
9/6 - 9/8
52%
43%
2%
Bush +9
CBS News (909 RV) (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/09/opinion/polls/main642108.shtml)
9/6 - 9/8
49%
42%
1%
Bush +7
:lol pre-election polls are USELESS. ESPECIALLY if they are close. 2 more months, then it's over, sorry, that's just the way the cookie crumbles :cool:

[saygoodbye12]

yes, I am willing to have taxes raised if that is what it takes to end this holocaust half our country wrongly justifies.
Do you do anything now to help the children who are being born and not taken care of?

What if your taxes weren't raised. Would you take money out of your pocket to help them?

[Evans]

Do you do anything now to help the children who are being born and not taken care of?

What if your taxes weren't raised. Would you take money out of your pocket to help them?

Do I do anything now about these children who are "being born and not taken care of"? My understanding of this question is that you are asking me if I help children who were going to be aborted but instead were allowed to have their right to life. Am I correct? If so, my response is that I have never met or heard of a situation where a mother or father says "you know, I wish I aborted him/her instead of giving birth"...anyone with a heart loves their own child at least this much not to think something so awful.

Regarding taxes, why do they need all this money for help? Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas. I'm guessing your response to this will be "well thats not our job to tell people that they should give their children up for adoption, they should have the choice to kill their own kid if they choose to do so". Unfortunately, to allow society to continue with this blind irresponsible attitude is a general sign that we are in critical moral despair. It is sick that we continue to justify this murder (yes, that is what it is) and in the process we de-humanize the whole situation. Our society treats abortion as if it is just an appointment you squeeze in between your 12:00 perm and your 4:00 botox.

We have convinced ourselves to be ignorant, and afterall, ignorance really is bliss isn't it? When we truly believe we've done nothing wrong, then we feel better about spreading our legs and having our own living, breathing flesh ripped out like an afterthought. Its the life that would've shown you what love was all about if only you'd given it a chance, the life that would've made you a birthday card in kindergarten class 5 years from now, the life that one day God willing would've given you grandchildren, the life that gets a chance to live, love, spread love, break hearts, have their heart broken, see the horrors of the world, and learn to rise above them.

Unfortunately, the ignorance is bliss idea doesn't work for most women. Many of them have severe mental side effects as a result of their abortion. Many end up in counseling. It would be interesting to tally up the cost of abortion, if you wanna make this issue about tax dollars and money. But its not about money, we both know that.

[marco j]

^^^^^sorry but there is no god^^^

[cyberhound]

^^^^^sorry but there is no god^^^
There most certainly is. He made mankind. After we made him.

[nubby]

The percentage of debt to GDP isn't that bad. And unemployment in a changing economy isn't unexpected. The economy was due for a correction. So, no, the economy isn't that shitty. Especially given certain events that have taken place in the last 3 years. Being able to remember the Nixon, Ford, and Carter years, I can assure you that the short recessions we had under both Bush's (you conveniently left out that the current recession had it's genesis in the Clinton years) aren't nearly so bad.
When the recession started greatly depends on your definition of recession.

[cyberhound]

When the recession started greatly depends on your definition of recession.
Yes, but since they don't happen overnight, I'll stand by my statement.

[nubby]

Yes, but since they don't happen overnight, I'll stand by my statement.
We need to clearly define a recession.

[MistreatedLewis]

you're correct, slaughtering helpless children is definitely right. have fun in hell, dude. :devil

You really believe in Hell?

[DMBSignGuy]

There most certainly is. He made mankind. After we made him.

thats a good one. I'm gonna write that down. :lol

[DMBSignGuy]

Regarding taxes, why do they need all this money for help? Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas.

so how many kids have you adopted? how many other pro-life parents have adopted? and why are our orphanages full?

[dmsurfer2011]

Abortion is nothing more than another crutch for society to escape responsibility for our actions. We have lost all compassion for human life. We only believe in what we can see and since you can't see the baby yet its not alive. Its amazing to me that the media can report a pregnant woman in a car accident to have died along with her "unborn child" but then when its the issue of abortion is raised its not a child.

[DMBSignGuy]

Abortion is nothing more than another crutch for society to escape responsibility for our actions. We have lost all compassion for human life. We only believe in what we can see and since you can't see the baby yet its not alive. Its amazing to me that the media can report a pregnant woman in a car accident to have died along with her "unborn child" but then when its the issue of abortion is raised its not a child.

you are forgetting the greater issue here. the greater issue here is that is it ok for the government to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body.? and its not just abortion, its pro-choice as a whole. the idea of Pro-choice means respecting and supporting the right of every woman to make private, personal choices regarding pregnancy, childbearing, and abortion. It is not which choice she makes, but rather that she is free to make the choice that is right for her.

[tyler1389]

you are forgetting the greater issue here. the greater issue here is that is it ok for the government to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body.? and its not just abortion, its pro-choice as a whole. the idea of Pro-choice means respecting and supporting the right of every woman to make private, personal choices regarding pregnancy, childbearing, and abortion. It is not which choice she makes, but rather that she is free to make the choice that is right for her.
What the government is trying to do is propect all people, including unborn children.

[nubby]

It could be argued that potentially all sperm are unborn children. Using spermicide is mass murder.

[DMBSignGuy]

What the government is trying to do is propect all people, including unborn children.

by telling a woman what she can and cant do with her body?

[Evans]

so how many kids have you adopted? how many other pro-life parents have adopted? and why are our orphanages full?

Why are our orphanages full? Don't worry, at the current moral pace of American society, we will soon be gassing those children. And we won't call it "murder" though, we'll just call it "down-sizing". Yeah, that'll make it better, that way we can invent a whole new way of solving the mass-epidemic of over-flowing orphanages that is paralyzing America!

[nubby]

I'm certainly paralyzed by the orphanages.

[DMBSignGuy]

Why are our orphanages full? Don't worry, at the current moral pace of American society, we will soon be gassing those children. And we won't call it "murder" though, we'll just call it "down-sizing". Yeah, that'll make it better, that way we can invent a whole new way of solving the mass-epidemic of over-flowing orphanages that is paralyzing America!

not only do you not answer my question, you go on a rant about ophanages. nice.

[Evans]

It could be argued that potentially all sperm are unborn children. Using spermicide is mass murder.

Good god i hear this everytime abortion comes up...FOR THE LAST TIME...the life is at conception, conception is the JOINING of the sperm and the egg, not the destruction of one alone or the other...guys, you realize that sometimes you release microscopic sperm even when you're peeing. Are you committing murder then? No. Fast forward to reality, where doctors in our country use instruments of penetration to destroy a baby's skull and suck the brains out. Thats murder. But believe what you like. Thats what America is all about.

[Evans]

not only do you not answer my question, you go on a rant about ophanages. nice.

Why answer a question that I believe is totally irrelevant?

[DMBSignGuy]

Why answer a question that I believe is totally irrelevant?

irrelevant how? especially that you yourself said Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas.

that kinda makes my question relevant.

[DMBSignGuy]

It could be argued that potentially all sperm are unborn children. Using spermicide is mass murder.

that and you could then charge a woman with involuntary manslaughter by having a miscarriage.

[Evans]

that and you could then charge a woman with involuntary manslaughter by having a miscarriage.

a miscarriage is not purposefully done :rolleyes:

[saygoodbye12]

Do I do anything now about these children who are "being born and not taken care of"? My understanding of this question is that you are asking me if I help children who were going to be aborted but instead were allowed to have their right to life. Am I correct? If so, my response is that I have never met or heard of a situation where a mother or father says "you know, I wish I aborted him/her instead of giving birth"...anyone with a heart loves their own child at least this much not to think something so awful. No. I'm talking about the kids who are born to poor mothers living in the ghetto off food stamps who can barely afford their son's next bottle of milk. You care so much about human life...are you doing anything to help those kids?

Regarding taxes, why do they need all this money for help? Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas. I'm guessing your response to this will be "well thats not our job to tell people that they should give their children up for adoption, they should have the choice to kill their own kid if they choose to do so". Unfortunately, to allow society to continue with this blind irresponsible attitude is a general sign that we are in critical moral despair. It is sick that we continue to justify this murder (yes, that is what it is) and in the process we de-humanize the whole situation. Our society treats abortion as if it is just an appointment you squeeze in between your 12:00 perm and your 4:00 botox. This is bullshit. I have personally never met anyone who thinks abortion is fantastic. I've never heard of anyone who went out and purposely had unprotected sex just so they could have an abortion. You're exaggerating...just slightly.

As for the adoption. So now, you not only want to tell these women you can't have an abortion, but we will make you carry the baby full term and then you have to give it up. If the woman wants to keep their baby, it should be their right should it not? And if she can't afford it, then unless you want the kid to starve to death, we as a society have no choice but to help. But as someone who seems to care so much for them, it shouldn't bother you at all.

Oh..and if people are waiting for kids so badly here in the U.S. maybe they should try adopting the more than 100,000 kids living in group homes and foster homes right now waiting to be adopted.

We have convinced ourselves to be ignorant, and afterall, ignorance really is bliss isn't it? When we truly believe we've done nothing wrong, then we feel better about spreading our legs and having our own living, breathing flesh ripped out like an afterthought. Its the life that would've shown you what love was all about if only you'd given it a chance, the life that would've made you a birthday card in kindergarten class 5 years from now, the life that one day God willing would've given you grandchildren, the life that gets a chance to live, love, spread love, break hearts, have their heart broken, see the horrors of the world, and learn to rise above them. Who's being ignorant? I think we all know what an abortion means. I think we all know what is being prevented. But life isn't so black and white.

[DMBSignGuy]

a miscarriage is not purposefully done :rolleyes:

hence the world involuntary. now on to answering my adoption question with ya.

[DMBSignGuy]

:thumbsup No. I'm talking about the kids who are born to poor mothers living in the ghetto off food stamps who can barely afford their son's next bottle of milk. You care so much about human life...are you doing anything to help those kids?

This is bullshit. I have personally never met anyone who thinks abortion is fantastic. I've never heard of anyone who went out and purposely had unprotected sex just so they could have an abortion. You're exaggerating...just slightly.

As for the adoption. So now, you not only want to tell these women you can't have an abortion, but we will make you carry the baby full term and then you have to give it up. If the woman wants to keep their baby, it should be their right should it not? And if she can't afford it, then unless you want the kid to starve to death, we as a society have no choice but to help. But as someone who seems to care so much for them, it shouldn't bother you at all.

Oh..and if people are waiting for kids so badly here in the U.S. maybe they should try adopting the more than 100,000 kids living in group homes and foster homes right now waiting to be adopted.

Who's being ignorant? I think we all know what an abortion means. I think we all know what is being prevented. But life isn't so black and white.

[Evans]

irrelevant how? especially that you yourself said

that kinda makes my question relevant.

Would you justify the Female Infanticide in China by saying "ah well, there are already too many people in China, no loss"...?

So we can't use population arguments as a justification of abortion. That is what you are doing.

[DMBSignGuy]

Would you justify the Female Infanticide in China by saying "ah well, there are already too many people in China, no loss"...?

So we can't use population arguments as a justification of abortion. That is what you are doing.

nowhere in any of my statements did i say that. im arguing against government control in the personal life of women regarding thier right to choose what they can and cannot do with thier own body.

still havent answered the adoption question yet.

[Evans]

No. I'm talking about the kids who are born to poor mothers living in the ghetto off food stamps who can barely afford their son's next bottle of milk. You care so much about human life...are you doing anything to help those kids?

This is bullshit. I have personally never met anyone who thinks abortion is fantastic. I've never heard of anyone who went out and purposely had unprotected sex just so they could have an abortion. You're exaggerating...just slightly.

As for the adoption. So now, you not only want to tell these women you can't have an abortion, but we will make you carry the baby full term and then you have to give it up. If the woman wants to keep their baby, it should be their right should it not? And if she can't afford it, then unless you want the kid to starve to death, we as a society have no choice but to help. But as someone who seems to care so much for them, it shouldn't bother you at all.

Oh..and if people are waiting for kids so badly here in the U.S. maybe they should try adopting the more than 100,000 kids living in group homes and foster homes right now waiting to be adopted.

Who's being ignorant? I think we all know what an abortion means. I think we all know what is being prevented. But life isn't so black and white.

We could go back and forth like this all night. I disagree with you. You disagree with me. Neither of us can change the others opinions and Big Brother is coming on now so gotta go.

[saygoodbye12]

Why are our orphanages full? Don't worry, at the current moral pace of American society, we will soon be gassing those children. And we won't call it "murder" though, we'll just call it "down-sizing". Yeah, that'll make it better, that way we can invent a whole new way of solving the mass-epidemic of over-flowing orphanages that is paralyzing America!
WHat a dumb statement. Explain yourself. You say on one hand there are tons of parents waiting to adopt but yet we have more than 100,000 kids still waiting thos very day to be adopted.

What you should have said was:

"There are tons of parents waiting to adopt normal white babies."

And by normal I mean not born addicted to any drug, having fetal alcohol syndrome or any other type of abnormality like Down Syndrome etc.

And just a bit of info, since I have experience with this...Many parents choose to go out of the country to adopt because they never have to worry about the parents showing up in 5 years and wanting their kid back. In the U.S. there is no guarantee that if you adopt an American baby, that if a few years down the road the birth mother changes her mind, that she won't be able to get him/her back. (hint: this won't go away if we make abortion illegal!)

[Evans]

WHat a dumb statement. Explain yourself. You say on one hand there are tons of parents waiting to adopt but yet we have more than 100,000 kids still waiting thos very day to be adopted.

What you should have said was:

"There are tons of parents waiting to adopt normal white babies."

And by normal I mean not born addicted to any drug, having fetal alcohol syndrome or any other type of abnormality like Down Syndrome etc.

And just a bit of info, since I have experience with this...Many parents choose to go out of the country to adopt because they never have to worry about the parents showing up in 5 years and wanting their kid back. In the U.S. there is no guarantee that if you adopt an American baby, that if a few years down the road the birth mother changes her mind, that she won't be able to get him/her back. (hint: this won't go away if we make abortion illegal!)

:lol You were replying to a sarcastic statement of mine....you people... :rolleyes:

[saygoodbye12]

:lol This was a sarcastic statement...you people... :rolleyes:
You were being sarcastic when you said:

Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas.
Sure could have fooled me.

[nubby]

I say kill all the orphans. Waste our money anyway.

[Evans]

I say kill all the orphans. Waste our money anyway.

ATTENTION EVERYONE: THIS POST WAS A SARCASTIC POST. NOW CONTINUE YOUR EVENING

[saygoodbye12]

ATTENTION EVERYONE: THIS POST WAS A SARCASTIC POST. NOW CONTINUE YOUR EVENING
Your first statement wasn't sarcasm. Unless your entire stance is you being sarcastic.

So stop avoiding what you said and explain.

Here, I'll quote you again in case you forgot:

Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas.

[DMBSignGuy]

Your first statement wasn't sarcasm. Unless your entire stance is you being sarcastic.

So stop avoiding what you said and explain.

Here, I'll quote you again in case you forgot:

i am waiting for an answer as well. not sure if we'll ever get it.

[nubby]

Seriously why not kill them all. We kill cows and chickens every day. Children are similar in size to chickens.

[SatelliteEyes]

I actually heard a guy call in on NPR to say that, basically that he doesnt even look at issues such as Health Care, Education, the enviorment, Job, the economy. He said that it is all pointless because if we don't elect Bush we are all gonna either die or be taken over by the terrorists and become another country, in which case, none of the other issues matter anyway.

Genius.

[nubby]

Aliens will get us before Terrorists will.

[Evans]

i am waiting for an answer as well. not sure if we'll ever get it.

Both of you are wanting me to respond to what? I already replied that I believe the questions are irrelevant. I already made a comparison about Chinese Infanticide. Your arguments do not trump the ultimate moral question. You are both trying to justify abortion by using the "well how would we pay for all the extra kids" and "who would adopt them, where would they go?" arguments. They simply hold no water! Killing babies may be an effective form of the population control, but it is not a moral way of operating. I mean, Hitler killed millions of Jews and others during WWII, do you see any sane person saying "well, its a good thing he killed millions of jews or else we'd have so many more people around"? Of course not!

I would hope the two of you would be more responsible than to basically say to me that you support abortion so you don't have to shell out additional tax dollars (which is debatable that would happen anyways) to support all the unaborted babies. They are not just lives you can throw away so you have more money in your pockets. Your mothers both gave you a chance.

Secondly, every kid that ends up in an orphanage or on welfare isn't doomed. Some of the greatest Americans have risen up from those places. This is the so-called "land of opportunity"...yet there are many efforts to deny this opportunity and deny the very right to life!

[tdowe99]

Maybe I'm a heartless bastard, but I just don't give a shit about babies.

[mwjorgens]

Just curious, are you willing to have your taxes raised in order to support these millions of children who will now be born? I always find it funny how people advocate so much for the child to be born but once it is, they no longer give a shit about it.
well slow down there buddy, you are speaking of logic, which is something our conservative friends dont have. they dont want these babies to be killed but if they grow up in the inner city, pubs will do everything in their power to make sure they dont succeed in life. no child left behind. yea!!

[saygoodbye12]

Both of you are wanting me to respond to what? I already replied that I believe the questions are irrelevant. I already made a comparison about Chinese Infanticide. Your arguments do not trump the ultimate moral question. You are both trying to justify abortion by using the "well how would we pay for all the extra kids" and "who would adopt them, where would they go?" arguments. They simply hold no water! Killing babies may be an effective form of the population control, but it is not a moral way of operating. I mean, Hitler killed millions of Jews and others during WWII, do you see any sane person saying "well, its a good thing he killed millions of jews or else we'd have so many more people around"? Of course not!
The questions ARE relevant when you use BOGUS "facts" to support your opinion. You brought up all the parents that are apparently just waiting in line to adopt kids that for some reason you seemed to think didn't already exist.

And I'm not trying to justify abortion. I just always find it amusing that people fight and fight for these kids to be born but they are never anywhere to be found when it comes time to take care of these particular kids. You think it's irrelevant what happens after they're born, I think it's more important than anything.


I would hope the two of you would be more responsible than to basically say to me that you support abortion so you don't have to shell out additional tax dollars (which is debatable that would happen anyways) to support all the unaborted babies. They are not just lives you can throw away so you have more money in your pockets. Your mothers both gave you a chance.
Yes, that is exactly my stance. I say kill all babies...then I can keep all my money!!!

First of all, it's not really debatable. Unless of course you think it's all rich people having abortions right now. If they're poor now and having kids they can't afford, who is going to pick up the tab?

In any case, I never said I was pro-choice because I don't want my taxes raised. I simply asked you if you would be willing to take money out of your pocket to help take care of the kids who will now need the support.

Secondly, every kid that ends up in an orphanage or on welfare isn't doomed. Some of the greatest Americans have risen up from those places. This is the so-called "land of opportunity"...yet there are many efforts to deny this opportunity and deny the very right to life!
All I can say to this is, I will bet all the money I will ever make in my life, that not only have you never lived in a group home or foster home but you've never even had first hand experience with one.

[Evans]

The questions ARE relevant when you use BOGUS "facts" to support your opinion. You brought up all the parents that are apparently just waiting in line to adopt kids that for some reason you seemed to think didn't already exist.

And I'm not trying to justify abortion. I just always find it amusing that people fight and fight for these kids to be born but they are never anywhere to be found when it comes time to take care of these particular kids. You think it's irrelevant what happens after they're born, I think it's more important than anything.



Yes, that is exactly my stance. I say kill all babies...then I can keep all my money!!!

First of all, it's not really debatable. Unless of course you think it's all rich people having abortions right now. If they're poor now and having kids they can't afford, who is going to pick up the tab?

In any case, I never said I was pro-choice because I don't want my taxes raised. I simply asked you if you would be willing to take money out of your pocket to help take care of the kids who will now need the support.


All I can say to this is, I will bet all the money I will ever make in my life, that not only have you never lived in a group home or foster home but you've never even had first hand experience with one.


Shows how much you know about me. I'm a social worker. I have worked in group homes taking care of children and adults, used to do it full time and then some. So where is all your money for me? Because since i'm a social worker, i need it.

[DMBSignGuy]

Shows how much you know about me. I'm a social worker. I have worked in group homes taking care of children and adults, used to do it full time and then some. So where is all your money for me? Because since i'm a social worker, i need it.

:confused: and your a social worker because???

[DMBSignGuy]

Shows how much you know about me. I'm a social worker. I have worked in group homes taking care of children and adults, used to do it full time and then some. So where is all your money for me? Because since i'm a social worker, i need it.

another question...as a social worker who has worked in group homes and taken care of those children and adults how could you make a comment such as this Our nation is over-flowing with perfectly capable parents who wish to adopt. They are so desperate that they are forced to adopt overseas.

[Evans]

whats wrong with that comment? There is always a waiting list for adoption in this country, and the system itself is a bit of a mess. There are always people out there looking to adopt.

[saygoodbye12]

whats wrong with that comment? There is always a waiting list for adoption in this country, and the system itself is a bit of a mess. There are always people out there looking to adopt.
What kind of social worker are you? Do you work directly with families or are you a clinical social worker?

Show me a waiting list of adoptive parents that are NOT looking for white "normal" babies.

With more than 100,000 kids sitting around with no homes, logic tells us that if there was a waiting list, they would be getting adopted...not shipped off from placement to placement.

I'd love to know what orphanages or agencies you have been through if as a social worker, you can honestly say foster homes, group homes and orphanages aren't that bad.

[marco j]

for being a social worker EVANS you sure seem slow in comprehending the social ramifications of thousands of baby's born that were never wanted or can't be fed.

i understand the right's "ideas" of this debate.

abortion= murder end of story.

the very sad truth is EVERYONE HATES ABORTION. but we need to figure out a way to educate people enough and provide enough health care to everyone who wants to
have a child.
in a perfect world ...yes noone would be aborted, but in this world , the real world people will ALWAYS have abortions wether you outlaw it or not. so we need to take care and educate people more end of story. now go spread the news.

[saygoodbye12]

for being a social worker EVANS you sure seem slow in comprehending the social ramifications of thousands of baby's born that were never wanted or can't be fed.

i understand the right's "ideas" of this debate.

abortion= murder end of story.

the very sad truth is EVERYONE HATES ABORTION. but we need to figure out a way to educate people enough and provide enough health care to everyone who wants to
have a child.
in a perfect world ...yes noone would be aborted, but in this world , the real world people will ALWAYS have abortions wether you outlaw it or not. so we need to take care and educate people more end of story. now go spread the news.
We agree on something. I'm getting scared. :p

[marco j]

We agree on something. I'm getting scared. :p


:lol trust me we agree on a lot more.

[saygoodbye12]

:lol trust me we agree on a lot more.
Probably.

My dad said he gives me 2 more years of being in the teachers union before I turn into a full fledged liberal. :p

[DMBSignGuy]

:thumbsup for being a social worker EVANS you sure seem slow in comprehending the social ramifications of thousands of baby's born that were never wanted or can't be fed.

i understand the right's "ideas" of this debate.

abortion= murder end of story.

the very sad truth is EVERYONE HATES ABORTION. but we need to figure out a way to educate people enough and provide enough health care to everyone who wants to
have a child.
in a perfect world ...yes noone would be aborted, but in this world , the real world people will ALWAYS have abortions wether you outlaw it or not. so we need to take care and educate people more end of story. now go spread the news.

[DMBSignGuy]

Probably.

My dad said he gives me 2 more years of being in the teachers union before I turn into a full fledged liberal. :p

well let me be the first to say welcome to the team. :p

[1sweetworldgirl]

It could be argued that potentially all sperm are unborn children. Using spermicide is mass murder.

:lol so we should have a funeral every time a guy jerks off

[cyberhound]

Probably.

My dad said he gives me 2 more years of being in the teachers union before I turn into a full fledged liberal. :p
So, you are union thug now.

[Evans]

for being a social worker EVANS you sure seem slow in comprehending the social ramifications of thousands of baby's born that were never wanted or can't be fed.

i understand the right's "ideas" of this debate.

abortion= murder end of story.

the very sad truth is EVERYONE HATES ABORTION. but we need to figure out a way to educate people enough and provide enough health care to everyone who wants to
have a child.
in a perfect world ...yes noone would be aborted, but in this world , the real world people will ALWAYS have abortions wether you outlaw it or not. so we need to take care and educate people more end of story. now go spread the news.

So murder is the answer? Is that the acceptable way that a healthy society should behave? Obviously people will always continue having abortions because they are immoral and irresponsible twats. I'm just saying lets not roll the red carpet out for the people who wanna have abortions. You wanna talk about "social ramifications", lets talk about the millions of babies who will never be born who could've been brilliant, could've cured a disease, could've made just a positive difference in a person's life, etc etc etc (and obviously I realize not all of them would do great things). Abortion is not the answer....it is as simple as that! Let the millions be born, stop being so selfish and let them have a little room in this world. They sure as hell deserve it as much as you do! They deserve the OPPORTUNITY. You understand that?

[saygoodbye12]

So murder is the answer? Is that the acceptable way that a healthy society should behave? Obviously people will always continue having abortions because they are immoral and irresponsible twats. I'm just saying lets not roll the red carpet out for the people who wanna have abortions. You wanna talk about "social ramifications", lets talk about the millions of babies who will never be born who could've been brilliant, could've cured a disease, could've made just a positive difference in a person's life, etc etc etc (and obviously I realize not all of them would do great things). Abortion is not the answer....it is as simple as that! Let the millions be born, stop being so selfish and let them have a little room in this world. They sure as hell deserve it as much as you do! They deserve the OPPORTUNITY. You understand that?
What kind of social worker are you? I'm seriously interested.

If one of your clients came to and wanted an abortion, would you help them to make sure they got one done in a safe, sterile place by a real doctor?

[Evans]

What kind of social worker are you? I'm seriously interested.

If one of your clients came to and wanted an abortion, would you help them to make sure they got one done in a safe, sterile place by a real doctor?

Thankfully, i've never been in a situation where that has been an issue. I've changed my focus in this field, so now I do work with families who have a child or adult living with them that has a developmental disorder. We support the family so the family does not have to institutionalize the person. Pretty much any mental or physical disablity you can think of is our focus. Primarily, i've done alot of work with autism. Wish i could tell you more, but Survivor just started.