So let's just say.... [Archive] - Antsmarching.org Forums

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 09:39 PM

Nope. And I'm sure everyone can agree here--Kerry, Bush, doesn't matter--let's focus on the issues that are going to effect us now and in the future instead of focusing on issues which date back to the late 60s and 70s.
I'm not accusing Kerry of doing anything, in fact I don't think he had anything to do with it.

But for the sake of this argument, let's say he did know. That would have ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with Viet Nam or whether Bush missed a physical 30 years ago.

Forging a document is a serious matter. So I was just curious if you would apply the same standards to Kerry you apply to Bush.

And I know...Bush's "lie" killed people. Well, Kerry hasn't had that opportunity yet...And if he had a part in forging these documents to try and "get one over" on the American people, who's to say he wouldn't do it when he's president?

Actually, I guess the better question would have been would it make you less confident in your vote for Kerry...because obviously I know it wouldn't make you vote for Bush instead.

JustinRIT

09-22-2004, 09:42 PM

I'm voting for the communist candidate anyway.

cyberhound

09-22-2004, 09:47 PM

And I know...Bush's "lie" killed people. Well, Kerry hasn't had that opportunity yet...
Sure Kerry has. He killed innocents in Vietnam, and he voted to give Bush the authority to go to war knowing full well that Bush would go it alone if he had to and that the war would take place in the spring of 2003. Kerry has the same blood on his hands that Bush does, plus the blood stains from Vietnam.

pedrosanchez

09-22-2004, 10:00 PM

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 10:07 PM

Nah. I wouldn't really care that much if I found out Kerry's campaign did that. Same as I wouldn't care if Bush's campaign were the ones who attacked Kerry's military record on TV. I don't really care that much about Bush's military service, even if he had served with some other respectable service other than the national guard. He would still be the same unintelligent president. Also for all the headstrong Bush supporters who think we can rebuild Iraq and liberate the people, how are things over in Afghanistan? Or is that old news?
Do you have any reading comprehension skills?

This is not a question of Bush's service, nor does it have anything to do with Kerry in Viet Nam.

FORGING documents is a SERIOUS matter. Remember a little something called Watergate? (obviously not on the same scale, but perhaps this will help you better understand the real issue being discussed here)

marco j

09-22-2004, 10:16 PM

Do you have any reading comprehension skills?

This is not a question of Bush's service, nor does it have anything to do with Kerry in Viet Nam.

FORGING documents is a SERIOUS matter. Remember a little something called Watergate? (obviously not on the same scale, but perhaps this will help you better understand the real issue being discussed here)

i would bet CBS didn't forge any documents. they may have aired them but i would bet they didn't forge them. it's just too risky given the president who they are flaming.

also if you are referring to watergate because you watch Fox news call this fiasco ....rathergate ..or something like that, then you really need to start watching some other news. seriously just monday i heard them say that these people arrested in Iraq and around the world do not deserve or are included in...'geneva rights'.

now people like to flame kerry for putting soldiers at risk for saying the things he said when he returned from vietnam. this is simply inexcusable. EVERYONE deserves 'geneva rights'. what's to stop any government of sect of people from torturing or troops our civilians after things like this are commonly spread to the population here?!?! there simply is NO EXCUSE. FOx news should be shut down permanetly.

*edit*
saygoodbye i am not trying to flame you or attack you. just fox news :)

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 10:21 PM

i would bet CBS didn't forge any documents. they may have aired them but i would bet they didn't forge them. it's just too risky given the president who they are flaming.

also if you are referring to watergate because you watch Fox news call this fiasco ....rathergate ..or something like that, then you really need to start watching some other news. seriously just monday i heard them say that these people arrested in Iraq and around the world do not deserve or are included in...'geneva rights'.

now people like to flame kerry for putting soldiers at risk for saying the things he said when he returned from vietnam. this is simply inexcusable. EVERYONE deserves 'geneva rights'. what's to stop any government of sect of people from torturing or troops our civilians after things like this are commonly spread to the population here?!?! there simply is NO EXCUSE. FOx news should be shut down permanetly.

*edit*
saygoodbye i am not trying to flame you or attack you. just fox news :)
I haven't watched Fox News in a long time. But I did put on Hannity today because my boys Opie and Anthony were on. :)

Like I said, this is certainly not even in the same ballpark as Watergate...but my question in this thread wasn't about their war service or lack thereof. So I thought that woul dhelp get the point across.

So if CBS didn't forge the documents, someone else did. And if it did happen to be the Kerry campaign, would that make you think even just slightly less of him? (leave Bush out of the equation...and do your best not to be partisan)

Daevian

09-22-2004, 10:22 PM

I'm voting for Kerry. If he's connected to this crime I will be the first to say YES I will gladly vote for Bush if that were the case.

marco j

09-22-2004, 10:37 PM

I haven't watched Fox News in a long time. But I did put on Hannity today because my boys Opie and Anthony were on. :)

Like I said, this is certainly not even in the same ballpark as Watergate...but my question in this thread wasn't about their war service or lack thereof. So I thought that woul dhelp get the point across.

So if CBS didn't forge the documents, someone else did. And if it did happen to be the Kerry campaign, would that make you think even just slightly less of him? (leave Bush out of the equation...and do your best not to be partisan)

absolutely. i already don't favor him very much. i guess i'd call it faith like the right does of bush. however you ask to be non-partisan. i'm not . i could care less what party is in power, but in this election i have only one choice.
bush is deffinately not an option. if kerry goes in and fucks this up worse , in four years i'll vote him out too. this whole garbage about letting someone finish what they started ..is ...well...bullshit. did you hear how the UN repsonded to bush??? they were polite but noone is going to fucking help us. fuck they think bush invade iraq illegally! and now he's asking for their support!?!what a tool. like i've stated before ...the first thingfor our country's
needs to do is replace bush and gain some respect from other country's. replacing bush will instantly give some more respect. it is that simple.

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 10:44 PM

absolutely. i already don't favor him very much. i guess i'd call it faith like the right does of bush. however you ask to be non-partisan. i'm not . i could care less what party is in power, but in this election i have only one choice.
bush is deffinately not an option. if kerry goes in and fucks this up worse , in four years i'll vote him out too. this whole garbage about letting someone finish what they started ..is ...well...bullshit. did you hear how the UN repsonded to bush??? they were polite but noone is going to fucking help us. fuck they think bush invade iraq illegally! and now he's asking for their support!?!what a tool. like i've stated before ...the first thingfor our country's
needs to do is replace bush and gain some respect from other country's. replacing bush will instantly give some more respect. it is that simple.
So do you think a country like France will suddenly decide to send troops because Kerry is president?

(here's a clue: Straight from their mouths they said they don't care who wins this presidency, none of their troops will go into Iraq)

So much for Kerry garning all this international support, because I'm sure we can keep Germany on the "coalition of the unwilling" list, as well.

marco j

09-22-2004, 10:46 PM

So do you think a country like France will suddenly decide to send troops because Kerry is president?

(here's a clue: Straight from their mouths they said they don't care who wins this presidency, none of their troops will go into Iraq)

So much for Kerry garning all this international support, because I'm sure we can keep Germany on the "coalition of the unwilling" list, as well.

you are partially right. they may not send troops but they will help financially and also help train iraqi's. they plan on sending iraqi's out of country to be trained in whatever field needed and then sent back to help with the rebuilding. doesn't this sound intelligent to you?!?

Daevian

09-22-2004, 10:48 PM

So do you think a country like France will suddenly decide to send troops because Kerry is president?

(here's a clue: Straight from their mouths they said they don't care who wins this presidency, none of their troops will go into Iraq)

So much for Kerry garning all this international support, because I'm sure we can keep Germany on the "coalition of the unwilling" list, as well.
I think with Kerry as president we will gain more allied support. Especially after those countries will be hit. No country is making any money from oil for food anymore and if we lose this war (which won't happen but looks as if it could) they will feel the weight of terrorism firsthand. Them not helping is actually quite stupid and Bush could probably get support if he tried.

Mickey Carson

09-22-2004, 10:49 PM

So much for Kerry garning all this international support, because I'm sure we can keep Germany on the "coalition of the unwilling" list, as well.
But it can't get any worse. Of course France and Germany won't change their tune with Kerry in office. But, with Kerry in office we stand a much better chance of brining Spain & Britain (the citizens not the PM) back into favor with America.

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 10:56 PM

you are partially right. they may not send troops but they will help financially and also help train iraqi's. they plan on sending iraqi's out of country to be trained in whatever field needed and then sent back to help with the rebuilding. doesn't this sound intelligent to you?!?
Um...you do know they are training the Iraqi police right this very moment, don't you?

And as far as I know, they said that is all they will continue to do, regardless of what happens in November.

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 10:57 PM

But it can't get any worse. Of course France and Germany won't change their tune with Kerry in office. But, with Kerry in office we stand a much better chance of brining Spain & Britain (the citizens not the PM) back into favor with America.
It could get worse.

The countries who are helping us now, that Kerry seem to think are only there because they are being "bribed" might say a big fuck you and pull out.

I'd say that would leave us worse off inside Iraq, especially when these supposed countries he has on his side (which obviously we know now is bullshit because WHY would France come out and say something like that otherwise?) tell him they aren't going to help him out.

marco j

09-22-2004, 11:03 PM

Um...you do know they are training the Iraqi police right this very moment, don't you?

And as far as I know, they said that is all they will continue to do, regardless of what happens in November.

uh yeah but only in Iraq with only the US doing so. did you read my post???
i stated a part of Kerry's plan to use other nations to train people! not only in Iraq but also fly people to other countries for a month or so of intense training in whatever field needed (teachers, soldiers, utility's ect.) and then send them back to Iraq to help in the rebuilding process! we have little support like this now. also their will become a combined effort not only with personnel but also with financing it! other nations will donate nothing but money to the cause. noone right now wants to help bush. don't you see this is what it has become?!? the world against bush! which inturn makes it->the world hates America! this is a bad thing. remove ....bush and replace with kerry it will take othre nations longer to hate him therefor->hate America! :freak

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 11:13 PM

uh yeah but only in Iraq with only the US doing so. did you read my post???
i stated a part of Kerry's plan to use other nations to train people! not only in Iraq but also fly people to other countries for a month or so of intense training in whatever field needed (teachers, soldiers, utility's ect.) and then send them back to Iraq to help in the rebuilding process! we have little support like this now. also their will become a combined effort not only with personnel but also with financing it! other nations will donate nothing but money to the cause. noone right now wants to help bush. don't you see this is what it has become?!? the world against bush! which inturn makes it->the world hates America! this is a bad thing. remove ....bush and replace with kerry it will take othre nations longer to hate him therefor->hate America! :freak
Let's try this again. Where did you read that France would take people out of the country...or that they would give any type of extra funding?

Because as I said, all I read is that they would continue what they are doing right now. Training the police and that was that.

marco j

09-22-2004, 11:26 PM

Let's try this again. Where did you read that France would take people out of the country...or that they would give any type of extra funding?

Because as I said, all I read is that they would continue what they are doing right now. Training the police and that was that.

france isn't training police right now. :ugh:

i said that when Kerry gets into office Fance and Germany have discussed
doing this . Kerry has pointed this out in his four point plan for Iraq. i heard it on NPR(national public radio) here in chicago today. they were going over Kerry's plan. Kerry was also interviewed. he had some real points to make when asked "why are you different than bush?"

Mickey Carson

09-22-2004, 11:27 PM

It could get worse.

The countries who are helping us now, that Kerry seem to think are only there because they are being "bribed" might say a big fuck you and pull out.

I'd say that would leave us worse off inside Iraq, especially when these supposed countries he has on his side (which obviously we know now is bullshit because WHY would France come out and say something like that otherwise?) tell him they aren't going to help him out.

The coalition of the "willing" is such a joke right now that it really can't get much worse. The popular opinion of nearly every single country in the coalition is that the war was not necessary. Including the U.S., only 9 nations have more than 500 troops in Iraq.

Coalition comes from a Latin word meaning to grow together. But since the coalition was assembled, we've seen Spain withdraw troops. We've seen Honduras withdraw troops. Costa Rica has left the list of the willing. Across the world, popular opinion of the U.S. is at an all-time low. Over 75% of Europeans oppose Bush's foreign policy. This percentage has risen over 20 points in the past two years. After 9/11 we had an incredible amount of sympathy and support from nations around the world. Bush squandered that opportunity at a true coalition and instead has alienated our allies.

In polls conducted across Europe, Kerry is viewed in a MUCH more favorable light than Bush...

Massachusetts senator easily beat Bush in 32 out of 35 countries asked by the Globescan institute for a survey released this month.

Kerry wins in countries that opposed the Iraq war -- 64 percent to five percent in France, 74-10 in Germany, 61-16 in Canada -- and those in Bush's "coalition of the willing" -- 47 percent to 16 percent in Britain and 43-23 in Japan.

Bush wins in Poland, the Philippines and Nigeria.

Source: http://www.turkishpress.com/turkishpress/news.asp?ID=27986

marco j

09-22-2004, 11:33 PM

those numbers mean a lot. public opinion can start wars. or at least escalate things towards that direction. Iraq seems to be the epicenter. maybe that's why people believe the whole "he took the fight over there!" ? i get it on a lower level. like when i was 22 i'd say it was a good idea. now that i'm older i feel like it is the irrational thing to do. we are smarter than this...aren't we?!?

saygoodbye12

09-22-2004, 11:47 PM

france isn't training police right now. :ugh: Wrong, try again.

Google can be your friend...

[i]Despite insisting that it would prefer any NATO training to be kept outside Iraq, France lifted its objections to an alliance mission in July, allowing about 40 NATO instructors to deploy to Iraq in August.[/quote] http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040922-1746-nato-iraq.html

The article also outlines the NATO Mission which is set to start...UNDER Bush.

pedrosanchez

09-23-2004, 01:23 AM

[QUOTE=saygoodbye12]Do you have any reading comprehension skills?

You asked me this question earlier now I will return the favor. You said that France is training the Iraqi troops. Then you provide a link to google. If you had these so called reading comprehension skills, then you would have read the article correctly. It says that France finally agreed upon a mission for NATO to train the troops. The plan called for 40 NATO instructors to go into Iraq to train the Iraqis. That was last month, this month NATO is sending 300 officers to train Iraqis in an academy outside Baghdad. This just means that France finally agreed to allow NATO alliance members to enter Iraq, which they would not do previously. Nowhere in your provided article does it say that France will be sending any training instructors of their own.
In fact the article states: "France, Belgium, Germany and Spain already have said they will not send instructors to Iraq." The article goes on to say that there will be training done outside of Iraq, which will be done by Germany in the United Arab Emirates. It also states:"France and Belgium insisted on more guarantees that costs of the operation would be mostly borne by countries that participate in the mission." Wouldn't this imply that France is not participating in the mission??

Alright so here you go http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/iraq/20040922-1746-nato-iraq.html

Now maybe you can brush up on your skills, big guy.

AnyonebutBush

09-23-2004, 03:16 AM

Running for President is like fighting a war, Bush and Kerry should do almost whatever it takes to win the election.

Its a dirty game that needs to be fought dirty. When they said Bush was behind the Veterns against kerry TV ad that was accusing Kerry of not earning his metals I had nothing bad to say about Bush. Its a fucking War and may the biggest asshole win!

Dancing Ants

09-23-2004, 09:16 AM

i would bet CBS didn't forge any documents. they may have aired them but i would bet they didn't forge them. it's just too risky given the president who they are flaming.

CBS knew that they weren't the same two documents, and Rather aired them anyway. good job there.

marco j

09-24-2004, 08:29 PM

CBS knew that they weren't the same two documents, and Rather aired them anyway. good job there.

what are you saying? the same two as the originals?!?! :ugh:

ambysshrink

09-24-2004, 09:25 PM

Sure Kerry has. He killed innocents in Vietnam, and he voted to give Bush the authority to go to war knowing full well that Bush would go it alone if he had to and that the war would take place in the spring of 2003. Kerry has the same blood on his hands that Bush does, plus the blood stains from Vietnam.
Whereas Clinton is a hero, because he dodged the draft.