LOST (the tv show)

[Rodey]

Again, like I posted before, if its all about characters, then why make the island mystical at all? Why introduce the mythology?

The show isn't "All about characters." Its how these characters interact and grow in reaction to this larger mythology. And what this flash-never did was take a key element--the island--and relegate it to the backburner down the stretch.

I think the whole idea of the mythology was just sort of an over-the-top way for them to pass the tests they needed to pass in order to move on. It would have been a lot harder/less interesting to show them doing ordinary good deeds. Does that make sense?

[thebridge15]

Anyone else roll their eyes at "Is this table number 23?"

[uro55]

That was explained. His soul is still on the island. The afterlife, for him, is wandering around on the island.

That's right, forgot about that one. Thanks:)

[uro55]

Anyone else roll their eyes at "Is this table number 23?"

I'm lost here (no pun intended lol)?

[RJP2741]

Transcript of Jack and Christian's convo.

C: Hey, kiddo.
J: Dad?
C: Hello, Jack.
J: I don't understand...you died.
C: Yes, I did.
J: Then, how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: I died, too?
C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)
J: I love you, dad...are you real?
C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.
J: They're all...
C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.
J: Are they all here now?
C: Well, there is no "Now" here.
J: Where are we, dad?
C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember....and let go.
J: Kate--she said we were leaving.
C: Not leave--No--Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let's go find out.

[thebridge15]

I'm lost here (no pun intended lol)?It brought back the first couple seasons when everyone wanted to figure out everything about the numbers. They hadn't had a random number reference in a while, so the very last episode ever was a funny place to put it.

[uro55]

It brought back the first couple seasons when everyone wanted to figure out everything about the numbers. They hadn't had a random number reference in a while, so the very last episode ever was a funny place to put it.

Ahhhh gotcha:)

[thebridge15]

The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.The most emotional moment for me.

[dh4645]

Transcript of Jack and Christian's convo.

C: Hey, kiddo.
J: Dad?
C: Hello, Jack.
J: I don't understand...you died.
C: Yes, I did.
J: Then, how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: I died, too?
C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)
J: I love you, dad...are you real?
C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.
J: They're all...
C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.
J: Are they all here now?
C: Well, there is no "Now" here.
J: Where are we, dad?
C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember....and let go.
J: Kate--she said we were leaving.
C: Not leave--No--Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let's go find out.

nice. did u do that yourself? +1

[Beebz]

Two things:

1. Eko turned down a spot in the finale. He wanted five times what they were offering.

2. MiB had a name. It was Samuel.

[uro55]

Transcript of Jack and Christian's convo.

C: Hey, kiddo.
J: Dad?
C: Hello, Jack.
J: I don't understand...you died.
C: Yes, I did.
J: Then, how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: I died, too?
C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)
J: I love you, dad...are you real?
C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.
J: They're all...
C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.
J: Are they all here now?
C: Well, there is no "Now" here.
J: Where are we, dad?
C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember....and let go.
J: Kate--she said we were leaving.
C: Not leave--No--Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let's go find out.

I got a little choked up reading that!:lorraine:lol

[RJP2741]

Christian: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.

This line specifically should put any of the "They all died in the crash" theories to bed.

[thebridge15]

Two things:

1. Eko turned down a spot in the finale. He wanted five times what they were offering.

2. MiB had a name. It was Samuel.Anyone else remember The Mother referring to the MiB by a name in Across the Sea?

[RJP2741]

nice. did u do that yourself? +1

Stole it from a lost forum, but I copied, pasted, and spoilered it myself. That counts for something right?

[dh4645]

Stole it from a lost forum, but I copied, pasted, and spoilered it myself. That counts for something right?

- 1

taking the extra work to spoiler it when the show is over seems like overkill. hah

[dh4645]

Two things:

1. Eko turned down a spot in the finale. He wanted five times what they were offering.

2. MiB had a name. It was Samuel.

1. what a douche

2. how do we know this?

[RJP2741]

I just didn't want to take up a ton of room. Though i guess it's not actually that long.

[thebridge15]

Wait, Nestor Carbonell actually doesn't wear eyeliner?

[inmytree]

screwed up, actual post is a few down

[Beebz]

Yeah it seems odd. I don't think the characters consciously constructed the FS - it was really just the natural progression of their "souls." Ideally, yes, they would know each other right off the bat - but it's not like they had meticulously planned this out together. They were still trying to find their way.

He didn't die from the neck wound did he? I thought it was pretty shallow. I was under the impression that the knife to his side eventually killed him.

Yeah - I still don't get why his neck was bleeding in the FS.

Thats a good point. It makes no sense to have him bleeding in the FS. Especially since they're already dead.

Right right, I'm still a bit confused as to why that happened for Jack but no one else.

Me too.

Because if you are in limbo and have no idea what is going on, or that what is happening is not actually real, then yes, something dramatic needs to happen in order for you to come to the realization of what is actually going on around you.

But my original question, which no one has answered (because I dont think there is an answer) is why set it up so anyone would need to be triggered?

I think the whole idea of the mythology was just sort of an over-the-top way for them to pass the tests they needed to pass in order to move on. It would have been a lot harder/less interesting to show them doing ordinary good deeds. Does that make sense?

It certainly makes sense, and I think the story works on that level. But the mythology drove the plot and had far ore importance than a obstacle course for character development. And fair or not, the audience considered that mythology far more important than the character developments.

Anyone else remember The Mother referring to the MiB by a name in Across the Sea?

She didnt. No one did. Samuel was the name they were going to use.

[Beebz]

1. what a douche

2. how do we know this?

Creators revealed it to E! or something.

Eko is a doucher. See the story I posted earlier about the actor who played him and what he did to prepare for his role in Oz.

[thebridge15]

But my original question, which no one has answered (because I dont think there is an answer) is why set it up so anyone would need to be triggered?It can't be answered. It's the writers' version of the afterlife. Who knows, maybe you need to get triggered in the afterlife.

[Rodey]

I get that that's a reason, but it feels like an excuse. There's nothing to support that theory. Why would they do that? It fails the logic test. Their only goal was to create a place where they could see each other again, and they decide to make it so they wont remember each other? People need to get hit with cars and shot in kitchens to remember? Huh?

I don't think that FS was ever consciously created, was it? I mean, I don't remember them ever sitting down and planning it out. I think it was just sort of something that happened because they each individually, to themselves, knew how important they all meant to one another. There was never actual discussion about creating that place that I recall. It was their world to "re-live" their life so to speak and do better things. They weren't reminded of the island until they ran into one another.

[inmytree]

For those wondering about the lack of answers about mythology in the end of the series, I wonder what questions weren't answered. We learned what the island was in terms of the fight between Jacob and MIB, what their roles and duties were, and why the 815 passengers were brought to the island. We learned what the consequences of MIB leaving would be, etc. Now I don't think these answers were necessarily good ones; I think the weakest part of it was how wishy-washy and new age-y the answers seemed to be (it's the light of the world that humans want to corrupt, and it MIB can leave the darkness will be released that destroys the world). I get being unsatisfied with those answers, but I don't think they left those mysteries unanswered.

[uro55]

But my original question, which no one has answered (because I dont think there is an answer) is why set it up so anyone would need to be triggered?
.

Maybe so they were all togeather or all moved on at once/as a group?

P.S. Who knows, just guessin here:)

[RJP2741]

Creators revealed it to E! or something.

Eko is a doucher. See the story I posted earlier about the actor who played him and what he did to prepare for his role in Oz.

:lol:lol:lol

[thebridge15]

She didnt. No one did. Samuel was the name they were going to use.She refers to him as "my love," and it sounds like "Michael."

I don't get how they didn't take 5 seconds to have Jacob refer to him as Samuel. It's not that hard.

[Rodey]

charlie and daniel did not "get it" before desmond. they had been having feelings, but desmond was the one who finally put everything together.

Also, Charlie was a raging drunk in the FS so it's likely that he the glimpses he saw meant nothing to him and were no more than an odd, drunken occurrence. When he finally met up with Claire, those visions were powerful enough to make him remember.

[monkeyman420]

Decent review from Time: http://tunedin.blogs.time.com/2010/05/23/lostwatch-all-of-this-matters/

SPOILER ALERT: Before you read this post, gather some of your closest friends together in a special place, and watch the last episode ever of Lost.

The great puzzle of the last season of Lost has been: how can both the flash-sideways universe and the Island universe mean anything? If Sideways is the universe in which Oceanic 815 never crashed, who cares what happens on the Island? If the Island is where the characters' fates are sealed, how can there be any meaning to what happens in the Sideways?

The moving, soulful finale that Damon Lindelof and Carleton Cuse gave us met that challenge. The Island world, we learned, absolutely mattered to the physical fate of the survivors. (And sci-fi purists ticked over the spiritual ending should at least give it up for this: what happened, did, indeed happen.) And the Sideways world mattered because it was the culmination of the spiritual, moral, human lives--the souls--of the characters.

It mattered, it moved, and it achieved. And before we get into any dissection of the plot logic of the ending (or, retroactively, the entire series), the answers or lack thereof, or the balance between science and faith in the resolution, this has to be said. "The End" was an epic, stirring two and a half hours of television, full of heart and commitment, that was true to Lost's characters as we knew them from season one. And through elaborate use of symmetries, echoes and callbacks—as well as some go-for-broke acting and a visual grandeur by director Jack Bender that matches the show's pilot—it brought them powerfully and cathartically full circle.

Did it work on a plot level? I'm not sure my head is wrapped around the mythology implications of this finale well enough to say right now. And it's not going to get better wrapped around it by, say, 3 a.m., so I'm going to largely leave that aside for today. I have questions: first, if in fact the Sideways does not exist in the mortal world, then what did it mean when Juliet said the H-bomb detonation "worked"? All it evidently did was kicked the Losties from 1977 to 2007. With the Island safe and no Man in Black, why, how, did Hurley ever die? Why exactly did Locke become mortal? And--a question with a zillion subquestions--would it really have been so damn bad if the Island sank after Locke died?

&c., &c. I have questions that will never be answered. You do. And more will come to me. But at this moment, what's more important to me is: the dog made me cry.

I guessed about halfway into the episode that Jack would not survive it. This is no work of genius on my part. In a way, the ending was almost so perfect that it's amazing we didn't all call it. Certainly people have guessed that the series that began with Jack's eye opening would end with it closing. And it made perfect sense that Jack, who was meant to die at the end of the original version of the Lost pilot, instead die at the end of the series.

But though I saw that--and knew, as Jack staggered through the bamboo, that he was going out to die precisely where he first came to the Island--all my intellectualizing went out the window when Vincent reappeared as he had in the pilot's first minutes. The show was returning to its simplest roots: life and death in the wild, and people trying to save other people. Even if you saw the closing eye coming, what that eye saw before it gave up its spark--a plane flying, safe in the sky, with Jack's friends on board--counts among the loveliest images Lost has produced in six years of them.

[A side note: good advice to future producers trying to keep final scenes secret--make sure it contains only two actors, one of whom is a dog and cannot spill any secrets. In retrospect, Matthew Fox's comment in my interview with him that the finale dealt with "what happens after we die" was even more spoilery than it seemed to me at the time.]

Now, yeah: this whole afterlife thing. I suspect some fans are complaining that the Sideways reveal was a cheat, because Cuse and Lindelof said long ago that Lost wasn't about Purgatory. In fact, the popular theory they refuted was that the Island was Purgatory, and indeed it wasn't--by making the Island mortal life, and the Sideways, well, some sort of afterlife, they actually managed to find a way to use a "debunked" theory, while hiding it in plain sight. (A loophole, if you will.)

You could argue that the Flash Sideways was entirely unnecessary. You know what? You would be right. On a plot level, you did not need it at all. It had no direct bearing on what happened on the Island. It turned out that, unlike what some of us thought (including maybe Island Desmond), Sideways Desmond's efforts to "awaken" his friends had no bearing on saving the Island or defeating Locke. You could have simply picked up season six in 2007, had everyone realize that Juliet's smacking the bomb did not undo the Oceanic crash, and ended the series with Jack dying and a few of his friends escaping.

You could, but you would have given up an emotionally powerful ending whose spirituality--though it may rankle some as Battlestar Galactica's ending did--bothered this big fat secular agnostic not one bit. To me, the closing of Lost was not telling me that I do or do not have an immortal soul; it was telling me what these characters lives meant. And that meaning, like all our lives' meaning, derived from the interactions they had with, and the memories they shared with, other people.

You could take that literally, as in: this is a picture of what happens when you die. Or you could take it metaphorically, as in: this is a story using spiritual imagery to depict the lasting legacy of human contact. (I personally see it that way, in the same way that I believe that religious scriptures are not literally true and yet are some of our most powerful and important stories regardless. Your mileage may vary, as they say on the Internet.)

It was, in other words, like the symbols on the church windows indicated, a Unitarian ending. It could be explained through any or all of the spiritual traditions depicted there, or none. It could be a literal event, or Jack's last dying memory, or the workings of some Jungian universal consciousness. (In the same way, as I've said, the golden water, and now the Giant Bathtub Drain, work for me; they're no more outlandish root explanations than "giant pocket of electromagnetic energy." One is "science," one is "faith," but both are ways of describing phenomena beyond our ken.) It was, to me, not about literal Heaven so much as memory: something you make together with the people you love, so you can find them when they're gone.

What it was, regardless, was a *story*, which showed the characters realizing the struggles we had seen them work through on the Island. So the state they reached in the Sideways was, in fact--as we often suspected through season 6--too perfect. The characters had more completely overcome their demons than they did on the Island world. But this perfection itself was not enough. Without the pain, and struggle of the physical world, and without the actual memory of it, their happiness was meaningless.

They didn't all get to complete those journeys in the actual, physical world. Because the actual, physical world is not perfect. The important thing, and what Lost over six years showed--along with a hell of a loopy, inventive sci-fi tale--was how each of them shouldered their burdens and tried, with varying degrees of success, to let go.

Before I get too college-dorm-room-talk with all this, though, back to the actual mechanics of the episode. First, the performances, and chief among them I have to give it up to Matthew Fox. I've had my issues with Jack as a character over the years--my feelings ranging from irritation to admiration that Cuselof would make such an irritating guy the center of the show--but he acted the hell out of this finale, both action and emotion. When he finally clasps his father--not Smokey-in-disguise but his father--and sobs, you can feel the weight lifting from him. And when he lays himself down in the bamboo and smiles, laughs at Vincent walking up--a gorgeous last display of childlike happiness--he sells Jack's relief at giving up life, at his work being done, at having, finally, fixed things.

Yet he also sold Jack's confidence and determination as he committed himself to face down Locke. And that--from the march through the jungle to the breathtaking fight scene on the rocks to his descent into "hell"--sold the episode's suspenseful narrative drive, in a season that had sometimes lacked it. (And there were other strong performances around him, like Jorge Garcia showing Hurley's horror at the enormity of running the Island.)

"The End" was an episode of ripping action (and, of course, a lush musical finish for Michael Giacchino), and an elegant narrative construction. Cuselof are lovers of symmetries (the entire arc of Lost is a kind of butterfly shape, expanding out both ways from the end of season three as a fulcrum). And "The End" was packed with mirrors and callbacks: the Apollo bar in the candy machine, the scene of Kate helping deliver Aaron, and, especially, Locke and Jack's peering down into the Well of Light, a parallel to the glowing Hatch at the end of season one.

Which brings us back to science and faith. Just as "The End" found a way that both the Flash Sideways and the Island universe would matter, it finally found a way that Locke's faith-based worldview and Jack's science-based one would be vindicated. (And not simply because they ended up arguing opposite sides; as each told the other, they have also both been wrong.) In the end, it was right that they were brought to the Island for a purpose; but it was also true that what happened, happened. Empirical answers and physical reality--say, that of duct tape--did affect the physical outcome; and yet without the spiritual endgame, what would it mean?

"The End," and thus season six, and thus Lost, was not perfect, because nothing is. I still believe that Jacob and the Man in Black were never characterized as richly as other characters, like Ben, which rendered Locke in the end too much of a generic baddie. And the final images--with the heavenly light shining though the doorway of the chapel, as Christian walked into it a la Close Encounters--were a bit overly touched by an angel.

But the finale, as good TV finales do, captured what the show's essence. Lost is a story about community, connections and interdependence. You live together, it told us, or you die alone. And when you live together--when you share of yourself and make meaning with others--you never die alone, even when you die bleeding out on the floor of a bamboo forest.

We didn't see Walt. We didn't learn about the Egyptian imagery. And now, yes, we also have to wonder who carved out that perfectly round bathtub plug at the core of the Island. For tonight, I have the answers that mattered. And I got them in a way that was moving and real and right enough that, as for the rest--I can let go.

And now, to paraphrase Kate, I saved a hail of bullets:

* So, yeah, I think we've established that this was a finale with a good bit of religious imagery. But there's more--Jack, for instance, bleeding from a wound in his side? Anyone with greater religious training than I care to point out some more?

* Why are only the major characters in the chapel at the end? Maybe they're the only ones ready to let go. Or maybe it's just that they're together because they mattered to each other. I'd like to think that, somewhere, there's another chapel, where Frogurt and Arzt, Nikki and Paulo are letting go together.

* Loved Miles' curtain-call one liner: "I don't believe in a lot of things. But I believe in duct tape."

* I've said before that to know Lost is to know Star Wars and "The End" did not disappoint with the callouts: first, Hurley likening Jacob to Yoda, then giving that classic Star Wars refrain, "I've got a bad feeling about this."

* Also, as usual, Lost did an excellent job of commenting on itself as the action unfolded. On the episode's religious allusions, Kate: "Christian Shephard? Really?" And Locke on Jacob's choice of Jack: "I expected to be more surprised. You're kind of the obvious choice, don't you think?"

* While I thought the finale was tremendously satisfying on a character level, it inevitably did service every character as well as others. I wished, for instance, that Ben had a more active role--that he made some more active moral choice--in the endgame. I wanted more for my favorite Daniel than to rock out some classical piano in Justin Timberlake's hat. And you may or may not be more invested in the Sayid/Shannon love affair than I am.

* On the other hand, too many waterworks moments here for me to count, especially Sawyer and Juliet's candy-machine reunion.

* Non-story-related complaint: I think that when the finale was expanded to 2.5 hours, ABC gave Cuselof five more minutes for story and kept 25 extra minutes for commercials. Good lord, that was ad overload.

* "Looks like you got your first gray hair." Are we to infer that Richard became mortal? If so, was it from the same cause that made Locke mortal? (And does that explain our discovering that Hurley eventually died?)

* All of which raises the question: if I am, as I say above, a big fat agnostic, why am I ultimately OK with a story involving an Island protected by unnaturally long-lived God-men? Because I'm watching a show with a giant monster made of smoke, that's why.

* So the spoilery scene I witnessed shooting on location when I visited the set? The scene on the rocks where Ben radios Lapides and a wounded Jack says goodbye to Kate and Sawyer. (When Kate announced that Locke was dead, the horrified publicist with me said, "You cannot write that!") Also, I learned in interviews that the key scene in the end of the episode was between Jack and Christian, but decided it was too spoilery to write up beforehand.

* I'm running out of steam, so I'm going to wrap up here. I'll probably come back tomorrow to add updates, or amend anything particularly idiotic I find I wrote. But mainly, it's all yours now. Because that's what Lost has been about above all to me: collaboratively making sense of it with friends, and Mrs. Tuned In, and you, the smartest TV blog-commenters on the Internet here at Tuned In. Please stick around for whatever comes along after Lost. And thank you for helping make this place together.

[inmytree]

Also, Charlie was a raging drunk in the FS so it's likely that he the glimpses he saw meant nothing to him and were no more than an odd, drunken occurrence. When he finally met up with Claire, those visions were powerful enough to make him remember.


I think it was also that each person didn't necessarily get the same amount of clarity at the same time, or the same amount of information. Like Charlie gets an image of Claire, but he might not have had the context to understand it. Desmond gets an image and along with it comes all the memories and context he needs to understand what it is to do. Sun also had that part in the hospital where she recognizes Locke but doesn't know how, Jack has many images before he comes to an understanding, etc.

[Beebz]

It can't be answered. It's the writers' version of the afterlife. Who knows, maybe you need to get triggered in the afterlife.

No youre right: it cant be answered. Which is why I think, with a show like Lost where everything is largely predicated on answers, to introduce a season-lon plot that is finally revealed, with four minutes left in the entire series, to be a metaphysical afterlife.

I don't think that FS was ever consciously created, was it? I mean, I don't remember them ever sitting down and planning it out. I think it was just sort of something that happened because they each individually, to themselves, knew how important they all meant to one another. There was never actual discussion about creating that place that I recall. It was their world to "re-live" their life so to speak and do better things. They weren't reminded of the island until they ran into one another.

I dont know. That's the thing. Christian said it was some place they created. Recappers have theorized that Hurley created it as a final gift to help everyone.

And OK sure, if that place was created organically, so to speak, I just have trouble accepting that extreme acts would need to take place in order to make them realize who they are. Remember, meeting didnt trigger it. Acts did.

For those wondering about the lack of answers about mythology in the end of the series, I wonder what questions weren't answered. We learned what the island was in terms of the fight between Jacob and MIB, what their roles and duties were, and why the 815 passengers were brought to the island. We learned what the consequences of MIB leaving would be, etc. Now I don't think these answers were necessarily good ones; I think the weakest part of it was how wishy-washy and new age-y the answers seemed to be (it's the light of the world that humans want to corrupt, and it MIB can leave the darkness will be released that destroys the world). I get being unsatisfied with those answers, but I don't think they left those mysteries unanswered.

They didnt leave them unsolved. They just left some of them very ambiguous, which is in many ways worse than getting nothing at all. Moreover, getting an answer often meant raising five more questions, a cycle that became more and more troubling as we began running out of hours.

Overall, I think there's a sense that whatever was revealed wasn't close to being worth the five years of build-up that preceeded it. I mean, was there one answer that you thought "Damn, that's awesome?" Alpert's story kinda did that for me, as did the idea that there were two beings on the island manipulating the castaways.

[dh4645]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts#Most-watched_series_finales

damn #55

below mr belvedere????

did they take into account DVR or online viewing

[thebridge15]

No youre right: it cant be answered. Which is why I think, with a show like Lost where everything is largely predicated on answers, to introduce a season-lon plot that is finally revealed, with four minutes left in the entire series, to be a metaphysical afterlife.The FS was the afterlife. It may have been a stupid plotline (which it was), but that's what it was.

[Beebz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts#Most-watched_series_finales

damn #55

below mr belvedere????

did they take into account DVR or online viewing

That doesnt mean anything. This was a heavily serialized show that not only didnt accomodate newer viewers, it flat-out rejected them. Which frankly, is awesome. Besides, then telelvision market is so fragmented anymore that big finale numbers are almost impossible.

[phattmatt]

Anyone else think that Locke was going to push Jack down the well when lowering Desmond?

[thebridge15]

Lepidus, Miles, and Richard as a trio trying to solve problems was awesome to me. Characters that had kinda been thrown by the wayside, but were all still determined to leave the island, and actually did it more efficiently than anyone else.

[thebridge15]

That doesnt mean anything. This was a heavily serialized show that not only didnt accomodate newer viewers, it flat-out rejected them. Which frankly, is awesome. Besides, then telelvision market is so fragmented anymore that big finale numbers are almost impossible.Exactly this. Seinfeld was a sitcom, you could have watched the finale even if you've never seen it. Same with Friends - I saw the finale and I wasn't an enormous fan beforehand.

But if you watch the Lost finale without really seeing the show, you'd be so confused you'd turn it off after 10 minutes.

[PWall]

http://www.heavy.com/comedy/comedy-videos/funny-videos/2010/05/lost-reenacted-by-cats/?aff=07

hahah that didnt take long

[trautwein.m]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most-watched_television_broadcasts#Most-watched_series_finales

damn #55

below mr belvedere????

did they take into account DVR or online viewing

TV audiences are much more fragmented today than they were in the past.

[Rodey]

The FS was the afterlife. It may have been a stupid plotline (which it was), but that's what it was.

I guess it depends on your definition of afterlife, but my understanding was that FS was the pre-cursor to the afterlife (heaven for lack of a better term). In order for them all to move onto heaven, they all had to realize they were dead, so that they could enter together. Hence Christian saying "let's go find out" to Jack's question of "where are we going?" and the bright light when he opens the church doors.

[sunshower]

The Celebrity Apprentice. Many people wanted to see Brett Michaels, and in the final half hour, it was watched by almost 11 million people.

CBS aired Brooks & Dunn: The Last Rodeo, which averaged over 10 million viewers and was good for a CBS Sunday

All of the FOX Animation line up was #2 for the 18-49 demographic only behind Lost, so a lot of that demographic were watching the cartoons.

Of your average 13 posts per day, are they all as terrible and pointless as the ones I have been reading today?

[Beebz]

Here's something I just thought of that makes me frustrated as shit.

The entire season we've been told that MiB cant get off the island or all your loved ones and the entire rest of the world will be gone. It wouldnt have made a lick of difference, because apparently, when you die your soul goes to this afterlife place where all your friends and relatives are. It all meant nothing.

[javierm27]

Transcript of Jack and Christian's convo.

C: Hey, kiddo.
J: Dad?
C: Hello, Jack.
J: I don't understand...you died.
C: Yes, I did.
J: Then, how are you here right now?
C: How are YOU here?
J: I died, too?
C: It's okay. It's okay, son (hug)
J: I love you, dad...are you real?
C: I sure hope so...yeah, I'm real. All those people in the church...they're real, too.
J: They're all...
C: Everyone dies sometime, kiddo. Some of them before you, some long after you.
J: Are they all here now?
C: Well, there is no "Now" here.
J: Where are we, dad?
C: This is a place that you--that you all made together--that you could find one another. The most important part of your life was the time you spent with these people. That's why all of you are here. Nobody does it alone, Jack. You needed them and they needed you.
J: For what?
C: To remember....and let go.
J: Kate--she said we were leaving.
C: Not leave--No--Moving on.
J: Where are we going?
C: Let's go find out.

What a scene last night, probably one of the best, had me :lorraine

[thebridge15]

http://www.heavy.com/comedy/comedy-videos/funny-videos/2010/05/lost-reenacted-by-cats/?aff=07

hahah that didnt take long"I gave up a respectable career as a spinal surgeon to protect a light from a cloud. Seriously."

[thebridge15]

Here's something I just thought of that makes me frustrated as shit.

The entire season we've been told that MiB cant get off the island or all your loved ones and the entire rest of the world will be gone. It wouldnt have made a lick of difference, because apparently, when you die your soul goes to this afterlife place where all your friends and relatives are. It all meant nothing.Brian, if you believe in the afterlife, this is true of life in general.

Nothing you do means shit cause you'll see everyone in the afterlife anyway. You either die sooner (if Samuel escapes) or later (if Kate kills him).

[thebridge15]

^ Them killing Samuel made it so that those who got off the island (Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Frank, Miles, Richard, etc.) could live long, happy lives instead of dying immediately.

[Beebz]

Also:

Are there still questions? Of course. But, really, who the fuck cares? (O.K., I do really want to know why, if this is a purgatory and everyone there is someone who had died, who the hell is Jack's son?)

Damn good question there.

[PWall]

Brian, if you believe in the afterlife, this is true of life in general.

Nothing you do means shit cause you'll see everyone in the afterlife anyway. You either die sooner (if Samuel escapes) or later (if Kate kills him).

where are you guys coming up with a name for MiB? hahah

[dmbredsox36]

Creators revealed it to E! or something.

Eko is a doucher. See the story I posted earlier about the actor who played him and what he did to prepare for his role in Oz.

:lol:lol:lol I laughed out loud at work when I read that. Nicely done ~

[Rodey]

I will say that I'm feeling mildly depressed and sad that this show is over. I shed a tear last night during the ending, which isn't something I normally do. The finale hit all the right emotional buttons and subconsciously I guess I felt more connected to the characters than I ever realized. Lost was the first show that I've ever watched religiously from the very first episode to the very last as it went along. I've watched other complete series, but it's always involved watching previous seasons on DVD or reruns. Despite not having some of the answers that I might have wanted about the island, I'll say that the past six years have been awesome and I'm glad I stuck with the show. As corny as it might sound, when you watch a show for so long, you really do get devoured in it and when it ends, it is sad.

MacGyver and Lost, the only two finales I think I've shed a tear during. :lol

[Beebz]

^ Them killing Samuel made it so that those who got off the island (Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Frank, Miles, Richard, etc.) could live long, happy lives instead of dying immediately.

That makes some sense.

[Rodey]

:lol:lol:lol I laughed out loud at work when I read that. Nicely done ~

Someone link me to the page that's on. I've just recently started watching Oz on DirecTV's 101 Network and the amount of full-frontal male nudity is quite disturbing. :lol

[zajDmB1]

Overall, I think there's a sense that whatever was revealed wasn't close to being worth the five years of build-up that preceeded it. I mean, was there one answer that you thought "Damn, that's awesome?" Alpert's story kinda did that for me, as did the idea that there were two beings on the island manipulating the castaways.

I think this is fans fault, too, though. I feel like fans made the show bigger than itself, in that people started looking for answers way too deep, and answers for things the writers didn't necessarily see as important. Now, the writers certainly don't get off the hook because if you accept that, then you have to accept that the writers just went with it, which is sort of how you keep viewers; by stringing them along.

For instance with the numbers. We know they were just numbers of candidates. In the pre-finale wrap up it was basically stated they just put them everywhere for the hell of it. There was no real reason besides the candidates and the somewhat loose fate tie in. But by putting them everywhere, they and the fans both created this hysteria where people were expecting the numbers to be some elaborate code or have some transcendent meaning.

And I think this is a good synecdoche for the entire show. There was just so much material that people MADE themselves assume there was meaning in everything. And instead of saying, "hey, we're not THAT crazy of writers." the writers just embraced it and acted like everything was planned the whole time. And some of it I'm sure was, but a lot was made up along the way. So what happened is the little mysteries had people assuming the bigger picture was also a giant mystery. When in fact, it was pretty much just a long action, sci-fi movie.

I would sort of weave in and out of both camps, ie thinking some things meant more than they did and just going with the journey not really letting myself get too involved. And I think that saved me from being overly disappointed. I was expecting something underwhelming and I got it. I think it was done very well, though, and I by no means hate the finale. I just think people over-thought the entire series.

[inmytree]

They didnt leave them unsolved. They just left some of them very ambiguous, which is in many ways worse than getting nothing at all. Moreover, getting an answer often meant raising five more questions, a cycle that became more and more troubling as we began running out of hours.

Overall, I think there's a sense that whatever was revealed wasn't close to being worth the five years of build-up that preceeded it. I mean, was there one answer that you thought "Damn, that's awesome?" Alpert's story kinda did that for me, as did the idea that there were two beings on the island manipulating the castaways.

I understand the criticism, and agree in part. It's just that in terms of the finale, people were going to be for or against the storytelling devices such as the light of the island, the darkness that the MIB personified and the danger it posed to the world. I accept them, but think there had to have been a more creative way than relying on MacGuffins, but in terms of what the show was able to accomplish I suppose it's a minor quibble for me. But with the finale, they obviously felt that those questions had been answered. I don't know where else they could go with the stage that had been set with the answers I just described. They answered them.

Like I said, I'm not saying criticisms of those answers are unwarranted. I guess I'm just saying that I understand the criticism about the answers we got rather than a criticism that we did not get answers at all. Most of the mythology questions I can think of got answered, and I think ones that didn't are probably just due to the fact that in the 120 something Lost episodes, they fucked up at points. It was a massive undertaking not without faults. I think the biggest fuck up was probably putting so much emphasis on Walt early on.

[Beebz]

Someone link me to the page that's on. I've just recently started watching Oz on DirecTV's 101 Network and the amount of full-frontal male nudity is quite disturbing. :lol

http://antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=11089868&postcount=22845

[thebridge15]

That makes some sense.YES!

I do like how the ending didn't REALLY involve the Jacob/Samuel conflict hugely. Even Samuel/Locke's death was kinda anticlimactic.

[Beebz]

I think this is fans fault, too, though. I feel like fans made the show bigger than itself, in that people started looking for answers way too deep, and answers for things the writers didn't necessarily see as important. Now, the writers certainly don't get off the hook because if you accept that, then you have to accept that the writers just went with it, which is sort of how you keep viewers; by stringing them along.

For instance with the numbers. We know they were just numbers of candidates. In the pre-finale wrap up it was basically stated they just put them everywhere for the hell of it. There was no real reason besides the candidates and the somewhat loose fate tie in. But by putting them everywhere, they and the fans both created this hysteria where people were expecting the numbers to be some elaborate code or have some transcendent meaning.

And I think this is a good synecdoche for the entire show. There was just so much material that people MADE themselves assume there was meaning in everything. And instead of saying, "hey, we're not THAT crazy of writers." the writers just embraced it and acted like everything was planned the whole time. And some of it I'm sure was, but a lot was made up along the way. So what happened is the little mysteries had people assuming the bigger picture was also a giant mystery. When in fact, it was pretty much just a long action, sci-fi movie.

I would sort of weave in and out of both camps, ie thinking some things meant more than they did and just going with the journey not really letting myself get too involved. And I think that saved me from being overly disappointed. I was expecting something underwhelming and I got it. I think it was done very well, though, and I by no means hate the finale. I just think people over-thought the entire series.

It is our fault, to some extent. I said a few weeks ago that the one thing we'll take away from this show is that we overthought nearly everything.

Not fully though, because not only did the creators not do anything to dampen expectations about the mythology, they embraced the frenzy and ratcheted up the mystery to 11. So to now say, "Its about characters, not mysteries" is a pretty big crock of shit. Its both.

I understand the criticism, and agree in part. It's just that in terms of the finale, people were going to be for or against the storytelling devices such as the light of the island, the darkness that the MIB personified and the danger it posed to the world. I accept them, but think there had to have been a more creative way than relying on MacGuffins, but in terms of what the show was able to accomplish I suppose it's a minor quibble for me. But with the finale, they obviously felt that those questions had been answered. I don't know where else they could go with the stage that had been set with the answers I just described. They answered them.

Like I said, I'm not saying criticisms of those answers are unwarranted. I guess I'm just saying that I understand the criticism about the answers we got rather than a criticism that we did not get answers at all. Most of the mythology questions I can think of got answered, and I think ones that didn't are probably just due to the fact that in the 120 something Lost episodes, they fucked up at points. It was a massive undertaking not without faults. I think the biggest fuck up was probably putting so much emphasis on Walt early on.

I liked the finale. More than a little bit, in fact. I just think the writers made some big mistakes, namely ignoring a lot of the island backstory that made the series what it was, and employing this FS device whose true meaning wasnt revealed until five minutes from the end of the series. You go all in like that and bust (as I feel they did), and you risk toppling the whole apple cart.

Walt was a big mistake. You can make the case that he was the central figure of importance in season 1, so to have him completely absent from the narrative for three years is a little strange.

[Beebz]

YES!

I do like how the ending didn't REALLY involve the Jacob/Samuel conflict hugely. Even Samuel/Locke's death was kinda anticlimactic.

It did in a different sense. The conflict remained the same, there were just different players.

And I hated that his death was that weak.

[thebridge15]

Walt was a big mistake. You can make the case that he was the central figure of importance in season 1, so to have him completely absent from the narrative for three years is a little strange.Walt was an enormous mistake. You just can't end his story when he talks to Locke in the FF. It's ridiculous.

[RJP2741]

It did in a different sense. The conflict remained the same, there were just different players.

And I hated that his death was that weak.

Me too.

[thebridge15]

It did in a different sense. The conflict remained the same, there were just different players.

And I hated that his death was that weak.I liked it. I didn't want them spending 10 minutes on "now I'm going to kill you" etc, etc. Even when characters were kissing a voice in my head was saying "yea we get it. Keep going, keep going, there's only an hour left"

[Beebz]

Walt was an enormous mistake. You just can't end his story when he talks to Locke in the FF. It's ridiculous.

I completely get that the age thing was a problem. Its hard, when youre casting/writing a show six years before its going to end, to know that kids will age and change. That kind of foresight is rare.

Seriously, they should have just given those abilities to a different character.

[thebridge15]

I completely get that the age thing was a problem. Its hard, when youre casting/writing a show six years before its going to end, to know that kids will age and change. That kind of foresight is rare.

Seriously, they should have just given those abilities to a different character.:lol exactly. Why the fuck make a child actor extremely important? Give his "powers" to Boone or someone.

[Beebz]

I liked it. I didn't want them spending 10 minutes on "now I'm going to kill you" etc, etc. Even when characters were kissing a voice in my head was saying "yea we get it. Keep going, keep going, there's only an hour left"

I dont mean I wanted the knife fight to be longer. I meant that making him human and shooting him was lame as shit. This was an all-timer of a bad guy, a centuries-old column of evil personified. A couple hours (in Lost time) before he died, he murdered four people in a sub. And he goes out by gunshot would to the back as he's about to kill the hero.....with a knife....to the throat. Hard to get more cliche than that.

[mja271]

It's interesting to me that the only time we saw the MiB act really evil was as Flocke. All the flashback scenes of him he is relatively normal. I feel like they never really tapped in to why he was such a force to be reckoned with.

[junior94]

I don't think I've posted one of these up the whole season, here's a link to the weekly recap that's always done by one of the Mods on a Pearl Jam site I visit, and this particular post was made on page #108 of the thread :D
(there's a new thread made for each season on that site)

http://www.jeff-fischer.net/?p=3988


It's often not quite as extensive as the ones done by the DarkUFO guys (to say nothing of Doc Jensen's marathon essays) but I've always found them insightful.

[doesmusicbest]

Wow. The first sequence of Raised by Another is pregnant with symbolism and references to later events. (pun intended)

[Beebz]

Hmmmmm


ABC packed roughly 107 spots — or more than 45 minutes of commercial and promotional time — into the two-and-a-half-hour Lost series finale, according to our (very unscientific but pretty reliable) count. Just when the finale would unveil a major plot point, a break would occur featuring anywhere from five to 11 ads and/or sneak peeks for fall shows on ABC. Granted, some of the spots were extremely clever (Target used images of the island’s smoke monster to peddle fire detectors) but numerous, nonetheless.
Though it can (and will) vary depending upon the circumstance, a network typically runs anywhere from 18 to 21 spots — or roughly 9 to 10.5 minutes of commercial time — per hour to accommodate 44 minutes of content (the rest of the time goes to network promos and local ads). Within the first hour of last night’s finale, it appeared that ABC squeezed in roughly 37 ads, along with seven promos for ABC and local programming. HBO got in on the fun later in the broadcast by buying a spot to promote the upcoming season of True Blood. Ad time was also gobbled up by the likes of Home Depot and the iPad.
It’s hardly a surprise that ABC would want to make hay out of the much-anticipated finale: In March, Ad Age reported that the network (http://hollywoodinsider.ew.com/2010/03/30/lost-finale-a-30-second-ad-will-cost-around-900000/)was expected to charge around $900,000 per 30-second spot during the Lost series ender. A 30-second Lost ad was only selling for a reported $213,000 at the start of the season. Apparently, advertisers are willing to pay a premium in programs with a rabid fan base, according to the article.
“I expected there would be a significant amount of commercials in Lost,” concedes Bill Carroll of Katz TV Group, a media buying firm. ”It didn’t seem like any more than you are seeing in primetime these days. Does there appear to be more commercials on TV? Yeah. Obviously, ABC was able to put in more in the two-and-a-half-hour broadcast.”

[Beebz]

http://www.youtube.com/user/ubetchatuber#p/c/0/42fKLn2A_Do

[Beefsteak1138]

Target commercials were the best.

$0.99 bbq sauce? Yes please.

[thebridge15]

But Samuel was always mortal, wasn't he? Jacob killed him.

Even if people become immortal when they become the Smoke, Jack still died afterwards, didn't he?

[Beebz]

But Samuel was always mortal, wasn't he? Jacob killed him.

Even if people become immortal when they become the Smoke, Jack still died afterwards, didn't he?

The man MiB was mortal. Smokey wasnt.

Jack died from a stab wound.

[MVDMB]

Target commercials were the best.

$0.99 bbq sauce? Yes please.

Don't do it! The Kraft brand bbq sauce is terrible.

I'm still on the fence about last nights episode, I don't have a formal opinion of it, I liked it, it was a great watch, but when I think about what they could have done, that's when I start to second guess it. I'm going to watch it another time and let it sit before I make a final decision however.

With that said, I feel like I just closed a chapter of my life; no TV show will ever be like Lost again in my opinion.

[thebridge15]

The man MiB was mortal. Smokey wasnt.

Jack died from a stab wound.Then how'd he die?

[dh4645]

Target commercials were the best.

$0.99 bbq sauce? Yes please.

the wife and i started watching the 2 hr pop up pilot episode around 7pm yesterday and caught up to LIVE time during the finale around 11pm. only had to watch like 2 or 3 commercial breaks.

[Beebz]

Then how'd he die?

He was made mortal once the stone was removed or whatever. He wasnt always mortal.

[Beefsteak1138]

Then how'd he die?

Did you watch the finale?

[inmytree]

But my original question, which no one has answered (because I dont think there is an answer) is why set it up so anyone would need to be triggered?



.


I think this ties into the conversation Jack and Christian have at the end, where it is something along the lines of "you needed all of them, and they needed all of you." At first I didn't understand why Desmond was the ultimate key in the FS world, but now that I look back his role was minimal. He was the impetus (actually, I suppose Charlie would be as he enlightened Desmond), but he wasn't the person who primarily switched the light on for all the characters. Libby did it for Hurley, who did it for Boone, who brought Shannon so she could help Sayid (and vice versa). Desmond got Kate to the party, but Claire awoke Kate, who awoke Jack, and Aaron awoke Claire, who awoke Charlie, and so on and so forth. The bonds they had formed in life were rebuilding themselves in this afterlife through shared memory. So I suppose the thing to take from it is not that there was a concisious design for them to be triggered, but it was just that companionship and an acknowledgement of the bonds they formed in life were the only way to continue to the next life. Jack wasn't there last because he was individually the last to get it. It's just that they couldn't go until they were together.

Writing that out, it seems pretty hokey, but I think it worked better in the show. It gives the FS some thematic weight, if not necessarily weight in terms of plot sensibility. Looking back though, I think they definitely should have revealed the bonds between the FS world and the real world earlier, because knowing what we know about FS world now, it might make the first episodes of the season, before Charlie and Desmond drive into the water, seem like they're spinning their wheels.

[Beefsteak1138]

the wife and i started watching the 2 hr pop up pilot episode around 7pm yesterday and caught up to LIVE time during the finale around 11pm. only had to watch like 2 or 3 commercial breaks.

Yeah, we we're going to wait until about 9:45 to start watching, but we got too antsy and just started watching about 15 minutes in.

[dh4645]

With that said, I feel like I just closed a chapter of my life; no TV show will ever be like Lost again in my opinion.

i agree. i most likely wont be watching any new network shows anymore.

they just get canceled way too easily and dont get a proper ending.

it started with firefly back in the day, surface in the middle and a bunch this season (like flash forward) with plenty more along the way.

it's just not worth it to invest my time anymore.

[dh4645]

Yeah, we we're going to wait until about 9:45 to start watching, but we got too antsy and just started watching about 15 minutes in.

yeah i wasnt sure we were gonna make it to LIVE time before the finale ended, but due to all the commercials in the pilot, the pre-finale stuff and the finale itself, we made it with 30 min to spare.

it was a long LOST marathon to say the least

[thebridge15]

I wanted there to be more with the light. As in, more scenes taking place there. The weird places on the island were always my favorite part of the show (the hatch, the statue, Jacob's room in the statue, the lighthouse, the light, the cave with the candidates' names, etc.)

[dh4645]

I wanted there to be more with the light. As in, more scenes taking place there. The weird places on the island were always my favorite part of the show (the hatch, the statue, Jacob's room in the statue, the lighthouse, the light, the cave with the candidates' names, etc.)

i loved all that stuff too...especially the time travel stuff and basically all of faradays stuff with the differences of the 2 digital clocks/timers, experiments with the mouse, etc.

[Beefsteak1138]

I wanted more of Juliet's boobage.

[dh4645]

I wanted more of Juliet's boobage.

she did have some nice boobage at the concert. too bad she left right away

[Beebz]

i agree. i most likely wont be watching any new network shows anymore.

they just get canceled way too easily and dont get a proper ending.

it started with firefly back in the day, surface in the middle and a bunch this season (like flash forward) with plenty more along the way.

it's just not worth it to invest my time anymore.

:lol, Surface was awful.

i loved all that stuff too...especially the time travel stuff and basically all of faradays stuff with the differences of the 2 digital clocks/timers, experiments with the mouse, etc.

This.

[comerelaxnow]

What happened to all of Hurleys money is what i wanna know

[javierm27]

What happened to all of Hurleys money is what i wanna know

His dad smoked it all away.

[uro55]

His dad smoked it all away.

DAMN YOU! lol:)

I was JUST about to write the same post lol!

[RJP2741]

Stealing another theory from Lostpedia. I kind of like this idea.

This isn't the answer to "how" it was done, but it is an answer of "who" and a little of the "why"

Hurley created the "limbo" that the losties went to after dying on the island to give his friends a place to go where they could meet up before moving on together. Hurley has always been about bringing people together and I think this was one of his first acts as the protector of the island.

We know from previous transcripts of the whispers that Boone was trapped/stuck on the island and watched his sister get shot, and we got the rather crapy explanation of the whispers from Michael who was obviously stuck there after dying so we know that the island has the ability to collect/hold on to souls after people die.

So I think Hurley decided after Ben told him he could do things differently to create the alt limbo, and I think he made a deal with Desmond who was right there with him, to be the go between for the limbo and reality. Desmond would have agreed (you know he would have) and maybe one of the terms of the agreement he made with Desmond was that he would be allowed to bring Penny along at the end which explains why she was in the chuch with them even though she was never on either plane, nor ever on the island.

As to why Michael wasn't there...well if Hurley created it and was planning to be there with his love Libby, why would you want the guy that killed her in cold blood right there with you. I don't think Hurley left Michael trapped on the island, and released him to go on his way (spirtually), but I Hurley obviously didnt have to send him to the alt since it was his creation.

When Christian told Jack that "you" created it...obviously Jack didn't do it he didn't have the power. And the group of losties didn't do it either, because they didn't have any special powers as a group. Jughead going off didn't do it, all it did was setup the need for the Swan and complete the time loop (whatever happened, happened ) But Hurley did have the power as protector of the island, and as stated above it all adds up.

Again, that's a why it was created, and by who. But how he used the power of the island to do it, hell, how did the island trap souls there to begin with, turn a man into smoke, etc...the how isn't really all that important in sci-fi. I like to have a reason for stuff to be able to happen, but you work within the contructs of the series, and the series ended on a mystical/magicial/spiritual tip so that's gonna have to do for the how.

I can't explain why people can get shot or run over in the limbo, or how a baby can be born yet probably have lived a full life off of the island, but nobody is perfect, and the story isn't perfect, but I don't think everyone that was in the limbo was necessarily there...Hurley couldn't just populate it with just the losties, it was almost a Matrix style scenario..with constructs walking around...which is why Locke told jack you don't have a son, because in reality Jack never had a son, and David was just a figment of the limbo.

Still thinking on this though, but as soon as I saw Hurley come out of church and tell Ben that he was a great number two, I thought back to when Ben told him he could do things differently...and I figured this was Hurley doing things his way.

[dh4645]

:lol, Surface was awful.


This.

i liked it and lake bell had some really nice boobage

and as you can see i like a lot of sci-fi type shows, that's why it was easy for me to accept some of the crazy things that happened on LOST and not nitpicking on every little non-realistic/logical thing like some people

[Haiku Jimi]

i agree. i most likely wont be watching any new network shows anymore.

they just get canceled way too easily and dont get a proper ending.

it started with firefly back in the day, surface in the middle and a bunch this season (like flash forward) with plenty more along the way.

it's just not worth it to invest my time anymore.

Great great show :thumbsup I still need to finish the last few episodes unfortunately, if I can find where I put them.

[junior94]

If you guys didn't hear yet, Eko was invited to take part in last night's show and appear in one scene in the FS, but he demanded 5 times more money than they offered him to do it. Good fucking riddance, dickwad.

[41ravens]

christ, jensen's write-up is probably gonna be about 20 pages.

[Beebz]

http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/?attachment_id=13249

[uro55]

http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/?attachment_id=13249

Jack Attack? :lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[41ravens]

i wondered how he'd milk this...

part 1 is up.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20387946,00.html

part 2 tomorrow.

[RJP2741]

Thinking more about everything and trying to figure out how the Flash Sideways was created...

Was Desmond's initial consciousness travel the creation of the Flash Sideways? When he turned the failsafe key back in season 2 and we got the episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes" had he gone to the universe we saw this season? I haven't watched that episode in awhile but it seems like it could work.

[stank]

I don't think that FS was ever consciously created, was it? I mean, I don't remember them ever sitting down and planning it out. I think it was just sort of something that happened because they each individually, to themselves, knew how important they all meant to one another. There was never actual discussion about creating that place that I recall. It was their world to "re-live" their life so to speak and do better things. They weren't reminded of the island until they ran into one another.

When it was revealed last night what was going on, I immediately thought of this clip:
Wet Hot American Summer - Planning a Reunion (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzkaS4uCOls)

[Haiku Jimi]

Thinking more about everything and trying to figure out how the Flash Sideways was created...

Was Desmond's initial consciousness travel the creation of the Flash Sideways? When he turned the failsafe key back in season 2 and we got the episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes" had he gone to the universe we saw this season? I haven't watched that episode in awhile but it seems like it could work.


I thought his consciousness had traveled back in time. I don't recall entirely though.

And :lol @ Jack Attack

[Beebz]

Thinking more about everything and trying to figure out how the Flash Sideways was created...

Was Desmond's initial consciousness travel the creation of the Flash Sideways? When he turned the failsafe key back in season 2 and we got the episode "Flashes Before Your Eyes" had he gone to the universe we saw this season? I haven't watched that episode in awhile but it seems like it could work.

That makes some sense, actually. It wouldnt explain how he didnt know Penny or Eloise though.

Also, where was the island? Did we ever pinpoint that?

[41ravens]

That makes some sense, actually. It wouldnt explain how he didnt know Penny or Eloise though.

Also, where was the island? Did we ever pinpoint that?

you mean like where is it physically located? if so, then no, i don't believe that was ever stated. although, i don't think it matters in the least.

[thebridge15]

That makes some sense, actually. It wouldnt explain how he didnt know Penny or Eloise though.

Also, where was the island? Did we ever pinpoint that?It kept moving as a way to protect itself.

[uro55]

It's fairly obvious that the island was (at least some/most of the time) in the South Pacific.

[joshizzle3]

That makes some sense, actually. It wouldnt explain how he didnt know Penny or Eloise though.

Also, where was the island? Did we ever pinpoint that?

the ocean :monkey

[mja271]

The Jack vs. Flocke showdown on the cliff was epic. I was so amped up when the "Jack Attack" happened going into the commercial.

[thebridge15]

Hurley and Ben were a good two people to leave on the island.

[uro55]

Hurley and Ben were a good two people to leave on the island.

There's a tiny part of my that would LOVE to see a sit-com style spinoff of those two ha ha!

[neumdogg]

If you guys didn't hear yet, Eko was invited to take part in last night's show and appear in one scene in the FS, but he demanded 5 times more money than they offered him to do it. Good fucking riddance, dickwad.
The guy HATES Hawaii. It was his choice in the first place to leave the show. They actually didn't want to kill him. He asked to leave. He probably didn't want to travel to Hawaii again.

[Haiku Jimi]

The guy HATES Hawaii. It was his choice in the first place to leave the show. They actually didn't want to kill him. He asked to leave. He probably didn't want to travel to Hawaii again.

Seems like that's something one would think about before auditioning for a show primarily filmed in Hawaii.

[breckbrew]

Just throwing some thoughts out here - probably difficult to understand, but it's an attempt.

If you view the Flashsideways world as purgatory, then it kind of makes sense that something had to intiate their passing on. My understanding is purgatory is neither heaven or hell, it's an in-between point, not completly filled with good, but not filled with evil either (hence why it seems that most of the people are better versions of themselves, but there is still pain and trouble to deal with). When souls are in purgatory, they need some sort of intervention in order to be released into the next realm. This purgatory begins on the plane at the moment right before the Losties began strongly interacting with one another (I think that's what Christian meant by "you all created this"). That's the point right before their lives all started to intersect and cross-over beyond unraveling. In the beginning of the flashsideways, ignorance is bliss for the losties, much like the matrix connections others have made. In order to go to the next realm, however, they have to realize who they are and whether they are good or bad; their soul needs to be purified. Begining with Charlie, they start becoming purified by remembering the good things they've done (loved others, cared for others, sacrificed for others, etc.) as a result of someone intervening on their behalf (Jack started it with Charlie, Desmond arranged for most of the rest). It's not until their flashes of recollection that they understand they have redeemed themselves for whatever wrong they did in the past. Once they've realized the good they've done, they become purified and can move on.

For what its worth.

[uro55]

Seems like that's something one would think about before auditioning for a show primarily filmed in Hawaii.

That also seem nuts. "Um ya I hate tropical paradise" lol:twak

[Beebz]

I went back and watched the last 20 minutes again. I gotta say, once you um, let go, and accept the fact that this is the way the creators chose to end the series, the ideas and emotions work much better.

I still think the flash sideways was a big mistake. If anything, the concept should have been introduced in the premiere and not touched again until the Desmond episode. Or maybe not even introduced until the Desmond episode. But the idea that these people made a place to be together again and enter the afterlife as one is very touching and appropriate in an ironic (plesanrtly though) twist on the theme of live together, die alone. That central idea worked. That was a success.

The whole storyline that led to that point failed. But that core idea was very well done indeed.

[RJP2741]

I went back and watched the last 20 minutes again. I gotta say, once you um, let go, and accept the fact that this is the way the creators chose to end the series, the ideas and emotions work much better.

I still think the flash sideways was a big mistake. If anything, the concept should have been introduced in the premiere and not touched again until the Desmond episode. Or maybe not even introduced until the Desmond episode. But the idea that these people made a place to be together again and enter the afterlife as one is very touching and appropriate in an ironic (plesanrtly though) twist on the theme of live together, die alone. That central idea worked. That was a success.

The whole storyline that led to that point failed. But that core idea was very well done indeed.

That's kind of the way I'm leaning, but i haven't had a chance to watch it again. But I think on a second viewing, when I know a major answer/plot twist is not going, I'll be able to focus more on the character resolutions and enjoy it for what it is.

[twistedmind1586]

I think some people are missing the point of the sideways world.

My take on the purpose of sideways land:

The reason none of them remember their island life from the beginning is because they are still "flawed" in sideways universe. Whether it be Jack's obsession with control, or Locke's search for purpose. The point of them remembering everything is to help them "let go" of these problems in the sideways world, and "move on" together. Because nothing in any of their lives was as important as the time they spent together on the island, they moved on together. I think Ben stayed behind because he has not yet accepted how his life turned out, and still needs to let go of Alex and the realization he failed as a father, although he is DEFINITELY dead, because everyone in sideways has already died.

While it's a little contrived, thats my thinking on why they didn't remember everything in sideways world from the start.

[PWall]

Along with failing as a father and not letting go of alex, Ben hasnt let go of the fact that jacob made him feel more important than he really was and he coudnt let go that the MiB lied to him when he said he was going to leave the island to him when he left.

[jojo04]

I think some people are missing the point of the sideways world.

My take on the purpose of sideways land:

The reason none of them remember their island life from the beginning is because they are still "flawed" in sideways universe. Whether it be Jack's obsession with control, or Locke's search for purpose. The point of them remembering everything is to help them "let go" of these problems in the sideways world, and "move on" together. Because nothing in any of their lives was as important as the time they spent together on the island, they moved on together. I think Ben stayed behind because he has not yet accepted how his life turned out, and still needs to let go of Alex and the realization he failed as a father, although he is DEFINITELY dead, because everyone in sideways has already died.

While it's a little contrived, thats my thinking on why they didn't remember everything in sideways world from the start.


I don't believe Hurley and Ben are dead. I like the theory from Lostpedia, that's it a world that Hurley created to be able to see all of his friends. We all know jacob was a god-like character who could make people live forever and we know Hurley could see dead people. The fact that Penny was there is the only part that I was totally confused about. I think FS world is just a place that's just a living Heaven, so to speak. Why the don't remember the island for awhile? Can't figure that out.

[neumdogg]

Seems like that's something one would think about before auditioning for a show primarily filmed in Hawaii.
He didnt know he hated it until after he started living there. He got fed up and asked to leave.

[hbktonyb]

One thing has been blowing my mind over the last couple of hours - Lets say the island didn't have a protector and people were able to attack the light - What would happen and how would it effect the rest of the world?

[javierm27]

I don't believe Hurley and Ben are dead. I like the theory from Lostpedia, that's it a world that Hurley created to be able to see all of his friends. We all know jacob was a god-like character who could make people live forever and we know Hurley could see dead people. The fact that Penny was there is the only part that I was totally confused about. I think FS world is just a place that's just a living Heaven, so to speak. Why the don't remember the island for awhile? Can't figure that out.

Then why did Hurley tell Ben you made a good #2 at the church? I think they died.

[livetimedmb]

I wonder how the island ended up on the bottom of the ocean though!!

[uro55]

Then why did Hurley tell Ben you made a good #2 at the church? I think they died.

I think so too.

[javierm27]

Thought this was funny.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S_nNDLqaieI/AAAAAAAAzW4/x_8-blClywo/s400/104962235.png

[hbktonyb]

I wonder how the island ended up on the bottom of the ocean though!!

Maybe it did after Ben and Hurley were done with it...

[Rodey]

I wonder how the island ended up on the bottom of the ocean though!!

My friend suggested that maybe Hurley and Ben eventually sank it, but I don't get why they would want to do that.

[comerelaxnow]

I still don't really get this....the general idea from you guys is that the Flash sideways stuff is all a type of puratory and that the island is what really happened. Is that correct?

So in the start of season Six in the LAX episode when they hit the turbulance and the plane didn't crash and life went on as if 815never crashed then thats the start of what exactly?
What is the deal with Jacks son?
Why did Hurley not remember being in the mental institute at all?

Now from watching Jimmy Kimmel last night they say that Michael spends his afterlife stuck on the island wandering around. I guess my theroy there is that he's being punished for the acts that he made on the island, murder and such (although killing Anna was the best part of the series)

[junior94]

The guy HATES Hawaii. It was his choice in the first place to leave the show. They actually didn't want to kill him. He asked to leave. He probably didn't want to travel to Hawaii again.

Right, I know. He had basically everyone in his life back in the UK, and I guess it didn't fully hit him until he was down in Hawaii for awhile shooting what it was like to be completely and so far away from them. Still though, he's a prick for how he treated the cast and crew for the time he WAS there. I mean when you've got the lovable Terry O'Quinn actually saying something publicly alluding to how much of a douche you are, you must really be bad :evil

[sunshower]

I still don't really get this....the general idea from you guys is that the Flash sideways stuff is all a type of puratory and that the island is what really happened. Is that correct?

So in the start of season Six in the LAX episode when they hit the turbulance and the plane didn't crash and life went on as if 815never crashed then thats the start of what exactly?
What is the deal with Jacks son?
Why did Hurley not remember being in the mental institute at all?

Now from watching Jimmy Kimmel last night they say that Michael spends his afterlife stuck on the island wandering around. I guess my theroy there is that he's being punished for the acts that he made on the island, murder and such (although killing Anna was the best part of the series)

If you think they were all dead when the original 815 crashed, then you don't really have a theory about Michael, especially not one that involves him paying the price for killing people who were already dead. Sounds like a cool zombie movie, though.

[Rylan]

I haven't backread all 40 pages from the last 24 hours but it seems a lot of you are questioning why the island was under water at the beginning of the season. We weren't shown the entire island submerged, only parts of it, specifically the foot of the statue. As we saw last night some part of the island definitely did fall into the ocean before Jack put the cork back in. It seems obvious to me that the statue is one of the places that fell in, not the entire island.

[sunshower]

Zombeach: Oceanic Flight 815.

[comerelaxnow]

If you think they were all dead when the original 815 crashed, then you don't really have a theory about Michael, especially not one that involves him paying the price for killing people who were already dead. Sounds like a cool zombie movie, though.

Well part of me is still open to the idea that they might have all died in the crash...now i know thats not the popluar theroy here and that people actually get physically upset for me thinking so but who knows. The show ended last night. Of course people are going to be questioning this thing from all angles.

Anyways thats why i started the paragraph saying that im looking at it like the island was real and the FS was a purgatory type thing. So in that instance i belive thats what happened to Michael.

[junior94]

I still don't really get this....the general idea from you guys is that the Flash sideways stuff is all a type of puratory and that the island is what really happened. Is that correct?

So in the start of season Six in the LAX episode when they hit the turbulance and the plane didn't crash and life went on as if 815never crashed then thats the start of what exactly?
What is the deal with Jacks son?
Why did Hurley not remember being in the mental institute at all?

Now from watching Jimmy Kimmel last night they say that Michael spends his afterlife stuck on the island wandering around. I guess my theroy there is that he's being punished for the acts that he made on the island, murder and such (although killing Anna was the best part of the series)

See I think the biggest mistake you're already making (& what's therefore hampering you in understanding) is you're trying to apply the concept of time as you and I know it in the real world to this sideways world. This is another detail that Christian flat out tells Jack, "there is really is no 'now' here". There's no such thing as the ordinary passage of time in the FS. So if one of the castaways died in 2010, but another didn't die until 2050, it's not like that person had to "wait around" in the FS world for 40 years until the other person died.

[RJP2741]

Well part of me is still open to the idea that they might have all died in the crash...now i know thats not the popluar theroy here and that people actually get physically upset for me thinking so but who knows. The show ended last night. Of course people are going to be questioning this thing from all angles.

Anyways thats why i started the paragraph saying that im looking at it like the island was real and the FS was a purgatory type thing. So in that instance i belive thats what happened to Michael.

They are both sort of a purgatory in the sense that yes, Michael is stuck on the island (with others apparently) for his afterlife because of what he did on the island. But it wasn't a result of the plane crash, it was what happened after they survived the crash.

[comerelaxnow]

See I think the biggest mistake you're already making (& what's therefore hampering you in understanding) is you're trying to apply the concept of time as you and I know it in the real world to this sideways world. This is another detail that Christian flat out tells Jack, "there is really is no 'now' here". There's no such thing as the ordinary passage of time in the FS. So if one of the castaways died in 2010, but another didn't die until 2050, it's not like that person had to "wait around" in the FS world for 40 years until the other person died.

I honeslty don't even know what the hell this is suposed to be...

I understand that time to them isn't what we precieve as time. I simply asked a couple questions and threw out a theroy about Michael based on your guys assumptions of the ending. Can you tell me where you thought i was misunderstanding the Time factor?

[javierm27]

As most of you guys enjoyed this show you should try and check out Vanilla Sky. I have been saying this on this thread for a while but if you need some sort of fix on the LOST scale, check it out. Similar story telling, a great movie and to me Cameron Crowes best film, so far.

[comerelaxnow]

Then why did Hurley tell Ben you made a good #2 at the church? I think they died.

I think the only thing we know for sure is that at the end in the church they are all dead already

[sunshower]

I haven't backread all 40 pages from the last 24 hours but it seems a lot of you are questioning why the island was under water at the beginning of the season. We weren't shown the entire island submerged, only parts of it, specifically the foot of the statue. As we saw last night some part of the island definitely did fall into the ocean before Jack put the cork back in. It seems obvious to me that the statue is one of the places that fell in, not the entire island.

Interesting but I think it was the whole island. I have no explanation for the question of why it had sunk, I just think the whole thing is down there. Watch that scene again (it's on YouTube) and you can see they travel along the span of it and circle around.

Definitely open for debate. Not dismissing your idea.

[RJP2741]

I think the only thing we know for sure is that at the end in the church they are all dead already

But the conversation between Ben and Hurley indicates that they remained on the Island after Jack died and Frank flew away and governed the Island like Jacob had for so many years (although with a different methodology than Jacob).

[DoDaFoo]

I think the only thing we know for sure is that at the end in the church they are all dead already

Exactly. Everyone dies eventually and that what we were seeing. They were all dead.

[uro55]

Interesting but I think it was the whole island. I have no explanation for the question of why it had sunk, I just think the whole thing is down there. Watch that scene again (it's on YouTube) and you can see they travel along the span of it and circle around.

Definitely open for debate. Not dismissing your idea.

I agree, as in I have no idea why it is, but I do think it's all down underwater.

[comerelaxnow]

Also if the island was something that really happened and was the real life situation then why would these people need to be reminded of what happened on the island? How do you forget something like that

[Beebz]

The island being underwater makes no sense. I originally thought it was just a red herring to make us think that's how they killed Locke. And it was. Someone else said it was on the bottom because the losties who created this world didn't want that memory (even though the island memories were the key to everything). Ok. But it also doesn't make sense because bens dad said he worked there. So when did it sink? After they left? Thing is, time doesn't exist there. And if they only got to purgatory after they died, how does Ben remember being there as a kid?

This is why the FS didn't work for me. Wayyyyyyyy too many holes.

[jojo04]

So would we just assume that the people in the FS world were living that life until Hugo and Ben died?

[comerelaxnow]

Exactly. Everyone dies eventually and that what we were seeing. They were all dead.

If Jack died on the island and was watching everyone else fly away then how is he the last to get the whole thing and enter the church?

[Beebz]

As most of you guys enjoyed this show you should try and check out Vanilla Sky. I have been saying this on this thread for a while but if you need some sort of fix on the LOST scale, check it out. Similar story telling, a great movie and to me Cameron Crowes best film, so far.

It is nothing near Cameron Crowes best film. That would be Almost Famous, followed by Jerry Maguire.

[DoDaFoo]

But the conversation between Ben and Hurley indicates that they remained on the Island after Jack died and Frank flew away and governed the Island like Jacob had for so many years (although with a different methodology than Jacob).

Right, and they eventually died after their time as the island's protectors. It does not matter how long they lived after Jack died and everyone else flew away, when they died, they went to the "flash sideways".

[sunshower]

Well part of me is still open to the idea that they might have all died in the crash.
I really don't see how you can entertain this possibility. My intention is not to be mean but simply to say that the Sideways world was explained and the Island world was validated all in the span of 3 minutes. It was put out there.

One of the few times we've ever gotten a definitive answer about something, actually.

[Beebz]

If Jack died on the island and was watching everyone else fly away then how is he the last to get the whole thing and enter the church?

This is why Kevin said you don't understand the time thing. It's because you don't understand the time thing.

Why don't you go check out the 24 thread for a while. Start in the shallow end so to speak. Then come back and try again

[DoDaFoo]

If Jack died on the island and was watching everyone else fly away then how is he the last to get the whole thing and enter the church?

Ok, listen. It does not matter when they died. Time does not exist in the flash sideways. People in the flash sideways do not realize they are dead. Jack was the last one to realize and accept that he had died.

[sunshower]

You're kind of a bitter, mean guy, aren't you, Brian? :)

Edit: I mean this in jest. Edited to add in case it didn't come across.

[comerelaxnow]

Ooops...sorry i said something that went against the general theroy in here again. Ill go hide in shame.

[sunshower]

Ooops...sorry i said something that went against the general theroy in here again. Ill go hide in shame.

Your time might be better spent watching the last 30 minutes again. Did you tape it? If so, you should. They explain it really well and it might just warrant another viewing to wrap your mind around it.

Kevin is right in what he says about the Sideways time vs. actual calendar time.

[comerelaxnow]

Your time might be better spent watching the last 30 minutes again. Did you tape it? If so, you should. They explain it really well and it might just warrant another viewing to wrap your mind around it.

Kevin is right in what he says about the Sideways time vs. actual calendar time.

No i think everyones hanging on the the fact that when Christain said that everything that happened to Jack was "real" that it means that it happened to him in his real life and not just that he expirecned it in possible limbo type state and therefore it was real to him.

[Beebz]

So would we just assume that the people in the FS world were living that life until Hugo and Ben died?

Yeah this is the other problem. I get what Christian said about time not existing, and that works for the idea that everyone just arrives when they die, and when they've all realized their island lives, they move on together.

But these people lived chronological lives. For all the talk of time not mattering, it seems to matter a lot. Jack obviously had to concieve and raise a son who grew older. Sawyer remembers the con man from his youth. Kate killed someone and was chased for years. Did none of the losties age? And what age did they enter the FS?

This is what I meant earlier when I said you can only accept part of the writers rules if you want this to make any sense.

[javierm27]

It is nothing near Cameron Crowes best film. That would be Almost Famous, followed by Jerry Maguire.

What part of my opinion do you not comprehend?

[sunshower]

No i think everyones hanging on the the fact that when Christain said that everything that happened to Jack was "real" that it means that it happened to him in his real life and not just that he expirecned it in possible limbo type state and therefore it was real to him.

So then you agree that they crashed and lived, left and came back but the Sideways was many moons later after they all died.

[javierm27]

Ooops...sorry i said something that went against the general theroy in here again. Ill go hide in shame.

No its ok just wait for the muppets recap, then you will understand. :lol

[comerelaxnow]

So then you agree that they crashed and lived, left and came back but the Sideways was many moons later after they all died.

Uhh...yeah sure if that makes ya feel better. :hump

LOL thats not at all what i said. But hey if thats what makes you guys actually read what im saying and not just make fun of my opinion then hey...sure what the hell? Why not

[Beebz]

You're kind of a bitter, mean guy, aren't you, Brian? :)

Edit: I mean this in jest. Edited to add in case it didn't come across.

I punted a litter of kittens after the finale. And I liked the finale.

So yeah, you're right. I'm one of those PA guys who Obama said cling to their guns and religion because the world has failed them. ;)

[javierm27]

Yeah this is the other problem. I get what Christian said about time not existing, and that works for the idea that everyone just arrives when they die, and when they've all realized their island lives, they move on together.

But these people lived chronological lives. For all the talk of time not mattering, it seems to matter a lot. Jack obviously had to concieve and raise a son who grew older. Sawyer remembers the con man from his youth. Kate killed someone and was chased for years. Did none of the losties age? And what age did they enter the FS?

This is what I meant earlier when I said you can only accept part of the writers rules if you want this to make any sense.

I think its safe to assume that the reason why they appeared the way the did, age and look wise is because this is the way they want to remember each other. The moment on the island is what impacted them the most.

[Rodey]

Uhh...yeah sure if that makes ya feel better. :hump

LOL thats not at all what i said. But hey if thats what makes you guys actually read what im saying and not just make fun of my opinion then hey...sure what the hell? Why not

Honestly, when it first ended, I thought for a bit that maybe they did die in the crash. However, after you go back and really look at things, there's no way that that's the case. I'm normally not one to tell someone there opinion is wrong, but yours is. Everything points to them surviving the crash and going through everything that happened on the island. The evidence is laid out perfectly in Christian's speech. How do you explain his speech if they died in the crash? It makes zero sense.

[jojo04]

I think its safe to assume that the reason why they appeared the way the did, age and look wise is because this is the way they want to remember each other. The moment on the island is what impacted them the most.


So you're saying when Jack and Juliet arrived they just had a made up son and knew they weren't together?

And does everyone think they did leave and come back?

[monkeyman420]

Yeah this is the other problem. I get what Christian said about time not existing, and that works for the idea that everyone just arrives when they die, and when they've all realized their island lives, they move on together.

But these people lived chronological lives. For all the talk of time not mattering, it seems to matter a lot. Jack obviously had to concieve and raise a son who grew older. Sawyer remembers the con man from his youth. Kate killed someone and was chased for years. Did none of the losties age? And what age did they enter the FS?

This is what I meant earlier when I said you can only accept part of the writers rules if you want this to make any sense.
It's the afterlife, it's not 'real'. Therefore, Jack's son isn't real. And Jack realized that when Locke said something to him in the hospital. Everything going on in Limbo was each characters way of dealing with where they are, instead of remembering and beginning the process of moving on. Since Jack's spirit had no idea where he was, and no recollection of his real life, his spirit created the world and circumstances under which that Jack Shephard lived.

The reason they all looked the same in Limbo is because that relates to the time they all spent together on the island. We know Kate and Sawyer were on the plane when it left the island. I think we can assume that those characters lived their lives after the island, therefore aging, but the most significant and important time of their lives was when they were on the island. So when meeting up in Limbo they all came there as representations of that period of time.

[comerelaxnow]

So wait jack had a son in his afterlife? You know with all of the questions floating around im suprised any of you people can say anything happened for 100% certainty.

[Beebz]

I think its safe to assume that the reason why they appeared the way the did, age and look wise is because this is the way they want to remember each other. The moment on the island is what impacted them the most.

I understand why they look like they do to one another. But again, these people lived lives unaware that they were dead. As does everyone they interact with in that world. So they couldn't just not age. Especially since they all died at different times in the real world.

For instance, Shannon died at like, age 23. Ok, so she enters purgatory looking like a 23 year old, or as a baby? Does she live an entire life so to speak? So you can say, no, because time doesn't exist. Ok then, but these losties only became aware of that fact when they were triggered. Until, they thought they were alive. Again, Jack concieved and raised a son. Sawyer was around as a child and had old newspaper articles. Hurley built a chicken empire over the years. Claire had a baby grow inside her. So clearly time both exists and, um, doesn't at the same time. It's all very confusing.

This is why the alternate world should have just been introduced in the penultimate episode. Giving each character a backstory that really didn't matter not only wasted half the season, it created too many continuity problems and big time questions that weren't, and frankly can't be, answered.

[Rodey]

So, I was just thinking about this.

How come in FS, some of the characters had completely opposite lives, while some had pretty much the same? Like Sawyer was a cop instead of a con-artist, but Kate was still a fugitive on the run?

[Jibiti]

So, I was just thinking about this.

How come in FS, some of the characters had completely opposite lives, while some had pretty much the same? Like Sawyer was a cop instead of a con-artist, but Kate was still a fugitive on the run?

I saw on the recap show that she was innocent in the alternate timeline.

[javierm27]

So you're saying when Jack and Juliet arrived they just had a made up son and knew they weren't together?

And does everyone think they did leave and come back?

It's the afterlife, it's not 'real'. Therefore, Jack's son isn't real. And Jack realized that when Locke said something to him in the hospital. Everything going on in Limbo was each characters way of dealing with where they are, instead of remembering and beginning the process of moving on. Since Jack's spirit had no idea where he was, and no recollection of his real life, his spirit created the world and circumstances under which that Jack Shephard lived.

The reason they all looked the same in Limbo is because that relates to the time they all spent together on the island. We know Kate and Sawyer were on the plane when it left the island. I think we can assume that those characters lived their lives after the island, therefore aging, but the most significant and important time of their lives was when they were on the island. So when meeting up in Limbo they all came there as representations of that period of time.

This summed it up for me. Locke tells him in the hospital after he remembers you don't have a son.

[Beebz]

It's the afterlife, it's not 'real'. Therefore, Jack's son isn't real. And Jack realized that when Locke said something to him in the hospital. Everything going on in Limbo was each characters way of dealing with where they are, instead of remembering and beginning the process of moving on. Since Jack's spirit had no idea where he was, and no recollection of his real life, his spirit created the world and circumstances under which that Jack Shephard lived.

The reason they all looked the same in Limbo is because that relates to the time they all spent together on the island. We know Kate and Sawyer were on the plane when it left the island. I think we can assume that those characters lived their lives after the island, therefore aging, but the most significant and important time of their lives was when they were on the island. So when meeting up in Limbo they all came there as representations of that period of time.

ok, now some of this I can get behind. If we want to accept the fact that nothing in the sideways world was real, it was all part of the construct, then that answers some of the aging questions.

There's only one problem: Christian said he was real. He was flat-out asked if he was real in the sideways world and he confirmed it. They were all real. So therefore, their families were real. Their friends were real. They had lives that followed a timeline.

[Rodey]

I saw on the recap show that she was innocent in the alternate timeline.

Ahh, didn't see that, that helps though. I was just confused as to why some of them were leading the exact opposite lives, as if they had a chance to live it over, that's how it'd be, but then others seemed to be on the same path.

[javierm27]

I understand why they look like they do to one another. But again, these people lived lives unaware that they were dead. As does everyone they interact with in that world. So they couldn't just not age. Especially since they all died at different times in the real world.

For instance, Shannon died at like, age 23. Ok, so she enters purgatory looking like a 23 year old, or as a baby? Does she live an entire life so to speak? So you can say, no, because time doesn't exist. Ok then, but these losties only became aware of that fact when they were triggered. Until, they thought they were alive. Again, Jack concieved and raised a son. Sawyer was around as a child and had old newspaper articles. Hurley built a chicken empire over the years. Claire had a baby grow inside her. So clearly time both exists and, um, doesn't at the same time. It's all very confusing.

This is why the alternate world should have just been introduced in the penultimate episode. Giving each character a backstory that really didn't matter not only wasted half the season, it created too many continuity problems and big time questions that weren't, and frankly can't be, answered.

To me it seems like the flash sideways was like a waiting room until they were all reunited so they can move on. Some of the stories we saw in this alternate timeline seemed to be what maybe at one point the people from the crash thought they should have lived.

Ex. Jack getting married and having a kid.
Sawyer being a cop instead of being a fugitive.
Hurley having all the money and being lucky.

[comerelaxnow]

ok, now some of this I can get behind. If we want to accept the fact that nothing in the sideways world was real, it was all part of the construct, then that answers some of the aging questions.

There's only one problem: Christian said he was real. He was flat-out asked if he was real in the sideways world and he confirmed it. They were all real. So therefore, their families were real. Their friends were real. They had lives that followed a timeline.

To me your taking the extreame literal meaning of the word "real" To me real could simply mean that he expirenced these things but that doesn't specify if he expirenced these things in his real life, limbo, or another time period between life, death, limbo and afterlife

[Rodey]

I think Christian saying they were real was accurate because they were in fact real, at least until they came to the realization that they were dead. Make sense?

Edit: They didn't know they were in limbo until they had their moments with one another. Once they had those moments, they realized that they were in fact dead and everything they had been experiencing in limbo wasn't actually real.

[javierm27]

ok, now some of this I can get behind. If we want to accept the fact that nothing in the sideways world was real, it was all part of the construct, then that answers some of the aging questions.

There's only one problem: Christian said he was real. He was flat-out asked if he was real in the sideways world and he confirmed it. They were all real. So therefore, their families were real. Their friends were real. They had lives that followed a timeline.

He confirmed they lived and that yes they were real in the sense that the are in purgatory/flash sideways waiting to move on.

[Beebz]

This summed it up for me. Locke tells him in the hospital after he remembers you don't have a son.

And this is why, to me, the FS was a disaster. We see Jack with this son for a year, bonding, growing, being a good father. It was redemptive and hinted that the island made him a different man. Only it didn't. It all meant shit because

1. He never existed. Or
2. He existed but only as a means to an end.

You can apply that to any of the stories. The idea of an afterlife was a good one. Turning it into a season long story that only gained it's proper context with four minutes remaining in the series was not.

[hbktonyb]

One thing has been blowing my mind over the last couple of hours - Lets say the island didn't have a protector and people were able to attack the light - What would happen and how would it effect the rest of the world?

This is the one question that I have not seen a good answer for yet.

[javierm27]

And this is why, to me, the FS was a disaster. We see Jack with this son for a year, bonding, growing, being a good father. It was redemptive and hinted that the island made him a different man. Only it didn't. It all meant shit because

1. He never existed. Or
2. He existed but only as a means to an end.

You can apply that to any of the stories. The idea of an afterlife was a good one. Turning it into a season long story that only gained it's proper context with four minutes remaining in the series was not.

See I see it as Jack in purgatory living a life he didn't have. He never had a kid.

You have been on this thread complaining since I can remember. I don't think the writers could have satisfied you in any way. There is nothing wrong with having a different take on the matter, but constantly saying this is shit they fucked it up blah blah blah, is pretty ridiculous.

[comerelaxnow]

This is the one question that I have not seen a good answer for yet.

How about....

The island in reality never needed a protector in the 1st place. Everyone espically Jack and Locke despreatly were searching for meaning to their lives so they created one.

(runs away)

[Rodey]

This is the one question that I have not seen a good answer for yet.

I'm not sure it would really matter to be honest. I think if the island were destroyed, it would simply not exist and there wouldn't be a place for people to redeem themselves. I think the whole point of MIB trying to destroy it was so that people could not move on to a happy existence in the afterlife.

[comerelaxnow]

See I see it as Jack in purgatory living a life he didn't have. He never had a kid.

You have been on this thread complaining since I can remember. I don't think the writers could have satisfied you in any way. There is nothing wrong with having a different take on the matter, but constantly saying this is shit they fucked it up blah blah blah, is pretty ridiculous.

The fact that anyone here, despite their opinions of the outcome, would be blaming the writers and saying they fucked up is really funny to me

[twistedmind1586]

I think the reason Jack had a son in his sideways life was to deal with his father issues before letting go. Seems pretty plausible to me.

[Beebz]

To me it seems like the flash sideways was like a waiting room until they were all reunited so they can move on. Some of the stories we saw in this alternate timeline seemed to be what maybe at one point the people from the crash thought they should have lived.

Ex. Jack getting married and having a kid.
Sawyer being a cop instead of being a fugitive.
Hurley having all the money and being lucky.

Yeah maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Too many maybes.

Even if it was a waiting room (which I can accept) people would be waiting for different lengths of time. Sometimes decades longer. Maybe more until
everyone died. Even if the familes and friends weren't real, they would have to provide the illusion of aging. Meaning, how would Shannon look 23 50 years after she died? If the answer to that is time doesn't exist, fine. But then an explanation is needed for how these dead people lived fake chronological lives.

[Rodey]

Yeah maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Too many maybes.

Even if it was a waiting room (which I can accept) people would be waiting for different lengths of time. Sometimes decades longer. Maybe more until
everyone died. Even if the familes and friends weren't real, they would have to provide the illusion of aging. Meaning, how would Shannon look 23 50 years after she died? If the answer to that is time doesn't exist, fine. But then an explanation is needed for how these dead people lived fake chronological lives.

I don't understand what you're saying/confused about. There was no time in FS, no one was waiting longer than anyone else. Everyone was in the FS at the same time, it was just that everyone realized that they were actually dead at different times, hence Jack being the last to the church even though he technically died before Hurley.

[jojo04]

I don't understand what you're saying/confused about. There was no time in FS, no one was waiting longer than anyone else. Everyone was in the FS at the same time, it was just that everyone realized that they were actually dead at different times, hence Jack being the last to the church even though he technically died before Hurley.


Not to put words in anyones mouth, but what I'm assuming she means is how do the characters not realize they are dead if they are living this continuous fake life and not aging.

The not aging has to be noticed somehow. I mean in the church Claire was holding a baby Aaron, who, by that time was older.

[Beebz]

See I see it as Jack in purgatory living a life he didn't have. He never had a kid.

You have been on this thread complaining since I can remember. I don't think the writers could have satisfied you in any way. There is nothing wrong with having a different take on the matter, but constantly saying this is shit they fucked it up blah blah blah, is pretty ridiculous.

Ok. But he did have a kid. We saw it for a seasons worth of episodes. To me, saying half the season didn't exist was a failure. Paricularly when there was plenty of island stuff left to mine.

As for the second paragraph, i don't know what to tell you. I would suggest noting the difference between complaining and being critical. I gave the episode and the season a B. The series an A-. That's not exactly bitching.

Everything I've posted has been backed up. These are ridiculous questions. My biggest gripe in fact, is that we have so many questions. And I don't just mean from a mythology standpoint. Lost spent five years weaving a tight, multifacted mystery with strong characters and deep themes. Then they turned the final season into what amounted to a massive literary exercise. I'm all for discussion and interpretation, but not to this scale. This is so opened ended that there are people who think they all died in the inital crash (although that's more their failings than the that of the writers). Some think Hurley created the world. Others think the island was hell.

Thing is, the entire series is so ambgious that anyone thinks any interpretation is valid, and that sucks. I wanted the creators to put their stamp on it; to tell us exactly what was going on. I wanted the discussions to be "well they said their vision was this, but wouldn't it be cool if....." rather than "it was this! No it was this! No way it was this!"

What's the point of that? I can create my
own show with it's own ending in my head whenever I want. I wanted this show to me more clear. The feeling I get from Lost is that they didn't know how to wrap it up, were scared to make a mistake, so they threw all this out there as said "you guys make it whatever you want." lame or not, I wanted a definitive result.

[twistedmind1586]

To get off the theorizing and everything for a second...

Holy shit was Evangeline Lilly smokin' in that dress last night. I mean good God she looked incredible. One of the many reasons last night was her best episodes in years.

[mr.MikeD]

i wonder who built the light plug pond cave?

[inmytree]

Yeah maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Too many maybes.

Even if it was a waiting room (which I can accept) people would be waiting for different lengths of time. Sometimes decades longer. Maybe more until
everyone died. Even if the familes and friends weren't real, they would have to provide the illusion of aging. Meaning, how would Shannon look 23 50 years after she died? If the answer to that is time doesn't exist, fine. But then an explanation is needed for how these dead people lived fake chronological lives.

Why does aging have to apply in someplace that isn't real in any actual word? Just because there is a history between Jack's son and himself with a past doesn't mean that past had to exist in any type of chronological span. We saw them interacting with each other in this alternate realm, but that doesn't necessarily mean they did any living besides what we saw.

I feel like the slippery terminology is meaning that this makes no sense; I hope I'm making some sort of sense. I just don't see why any sense of time or chronology would need apply in the flash-sideways scenes. There was no need for aging because they weren't aging; there was no "time" in the waiting room between when Jack for example and Hurley got there.

[Beebz]

I don't understand what you're saying/confused about. There was no time in FS, no one was waiting longer than anyone else. Everyone was in the FS at the same time, it was just that everyone realized that they were actually dead at different times, hence Jack being the last to the church even though he technically died before Hurley.

Of course thy entered at different times. They died at different times in the real world. Shannon died let's say 50 years before Sawyer. What happened to her soul for 50 years until sawyers arrived?

They were all eventually there at the same time. But they didn't all enter at the same time. It's impossible.

[javierm27]

Ok. But he did have a kid. We saw it for a seasons worth of episodes. To me, saying half the season didn't exist was a failure. Paricularly when there was plenty of island stuff left to mine.

As for the second paragraph, i don't know what to tell you. I would suggest noting the difference between complaining and being critical. I gave the episode and the season a B. The series an A-. That's not exactly bitching.

Everything I've posted has been backed up. These are ridiculous questions. My biggest gripe in fact, is that we have so many questions. And I don't just mean from a mythology standpoint. Lost spent five years weaving a tight, multifacted mystery with strong characters and deep themes. Then they turned the final season into what amounted to a massive literary exercise. I'm all for discussion and interpretation, but not to this scale. This is so opened ended that there are people who think they all died in the inital crash (although that's more their failings than the that of the writers). Some think Hurley created the world. Others think the island was hell.

Thing is, the entire series is so ambgious that anyone thinks any interpretation is valid, and that sucks. I wanted the creators to put their stamp on it; to tell us exactly what was going on. I wanted the discussions to be "well they said their vision was this, but wouldn't it be cool if....." rather than "it was this! No it was this! No way it was this!"

What's the point of that? I can create my
own show with it's own ending in my head whenever I want. I wanted this show to me more clear. The feeling I get from Lost is that they didn't know how to wrap it up, were scared to make a mistake, so they threw all this out there as said "you guys make it whatever you want." lame or not, I wanted a definitive result.

Yeah and I think the expectations that you had compared to mine is the driver behind this. From the beginning I grew to love the characters, to me this ending was great because it gave me closure. The beauty in this and what I believed the writers tried to do was to leave it open to interpretation, which from what I see you don't like.

Which is why I pointed out Vanilla Sky, there are three different possible interpretations on the ending from of that movie even though the movie only had one.

[mr.MikeD]

Of course thy entered at different times. They died at different times in the real world. Shannon died let's say 50 years before Sawyer. What happened to her soul for 50 years until sawyers arrived?
irrella. time has no meaning in that "reality", as stated by christian. there was no 50 years from the soul's perspective. or something.

[javierm27]

To get off the theorizing and everything for a second...

Holy shit was Evangeline Lilly smokin' in that dress last night. I mean good God she looked incredible. One of the many reasons last night was her best episodes in years.

Seriously and Juliet, whoa!

But in all seriousness the Giants suck, Dodgers!!!

[inmytree]

Of course thy entered at different times. They died at different times in the real world. Shannon died let's say 50 years before Sawyer. What happened to her soul for 50 years until sawyers arrived?

They were all eventually there at the same time. But they didn't all enter at the same time. It's impossible.

Why would that realm follow any semblance of linear time as existed in the real, "island" world?

[javierm27]

irrella. time has no meaning in that "reality", as stated by christian. there was no 50 years from the soul's perspective. or something.

Exactly thats what I understood from it. Also you should listen to what Matthew Fox said last night on Kimmel.

[hulupputree]

Interesting clue that they did not die when the plane crashed, and some time had elapsed on island before Jack died, lending credit to the island being real.

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=126846

[twistedmind1586]

Of course thy entered at different times. They died at different times in the real world. Shannon died let's say 50 years before Sawyer. What happened to her soul for 50 years until sawyers arrived?

They were all eventually there at the same time. But they didn't all enter at the same time. It's impossible.

It's the writers take on the afterlife. You just have to accept it. They stated that "there is no now," which I took to mean that regardless of when someone dies, when they enter the after, they go to a time when everyone else exists.

Also, to those who say not enough questions were answered, I call bullshit.

THE question of the entire series has always been about faith vs. science, and last night they finally settled the debate, in the story of Lost, faith rang true.

Most of the questions were trivial to the central story of Lost, which was always about faith and science.

[Beebz]

There is one way this all makes sense: when the last of the losties finally died (let's say hurley) the waiting room suddenly activated and all the losties "went online" in the forms that we saw, which I guess was the plane ride. So there would be chronlogical time from that point forward, and they would all have fake memories of a past and a present that seemed familiar.

I don't really like that idea, mainly because it feels like a way to explain away a poorly thought out idea, but it kinda works.

[sunshower]

I punted a litter of kittens after the finale. And I liked the finale.

So yeah, you're right. I'm one of those PA guys who Obama said cling to their guns and religion because the world has failed them. ;)

:lol:lol:lol People like you make me miss this place when I am not around for awhile. You're hilarious.

[inmytree]

There is one way this all makes sense: when the last of the losties finally died (let's say hurley) the waiting room suddenly activated and all the losties "went online" in the forms that we saw, which I guess was the plane ride. So there would be chronlogical time from that point forward, and they would all have fake memories of a past and a present that seemed familiar.

I don't really like that idea, mainly because it feels like a way to explain away a poorly thought out idea, but it kinda works.

I don't see why chronological time had to pass before the afterlife section had to begin. I'm still not seeing why you think their souls were 'hanging out' until the last one died. The flash-sideways section doesn't exist in any time relative to the action going on in the real world. It doesn't even exist in any conventional meaning. There's no physical "waiting room." For the characters, if we're trying to put it in chronological order, for Jack it began the second he died. For Charlie it began the second he died. For Hurley the same. There's no time spent waiting for everyone to show up because the time in the island world doesn't apply.

[javierm27]

There is one way this all makes sense: when the last of the losties finally died (let's say hurley) the waiting room suddenly activated and all the losties "went online" in the forms that we saw, which I guess was the plane ride. So there would be chronlogical time from that point forward, and they would all have fake memories of a past and a present that seemed familiar.

I don't really like that idea, mainly because it feels like a way to explain away a poorly thought out idea, but it kinda works.


Yeah my Fiancee pointed this out also. If you look at Kimmels show when they were interviewing Matthew Fox, they have the scene from LA X where Jack is griping his seat as the plane experiences turbulence and after the turbulence stops hes still holding on, Rose then tells him "you can let go".

[sunshower]

So wait jack had a son in his afterlife? You know with all of the questions floating around im suprised any of you people can say anything happened for 100% certainty.

Did you actually watch the show?

I mean, did you watch any of the 6th season?

[monkeyman420]

Yeah maybe it was maybe it wasn't. Too many maybes.

Even if it was a waiting room (which I can accept) people would be waiting for different lengths of time. Sometimes decades longer. Maybe more until
everyone died. Even if the familes and friends weren't real, they would have to provide the illusion of aging. Meaning, how would Shannon look 23 50 years after she died? If the answer to that is time doesn't exist, fine. But then an explanation is needed for how these dead people lived fake chronological lives.
You are trying to associate time with the afterlife, or purgatory, or limbo, whatever you want to call it. You keep assuming that in that place all of the characters somehow lived and created an existence and did things in a chronological order. I think that whatever that place was, it was made in part by memories of those that had died. So in Jack's case, we always knew he had Daddy issues, that he wanted to be loved, that he didn't want to be like his father. And so when he died and his spirit went to that place, his spirit created the world in which Jack Shephard lived. His spirit or unconsciousness was able to take things from his real existence and then manifest those thoughts, experiences, feelings etc into new surroundings and new memories. And all of that was done because his spirit, and the spirits of everyone else, weren't ready to move on to the next stage. Once everyone began to realize that they were dead and that they needed each other to move to the next place is when the enlightenment happened.

[comerelaxnow]

Did you actually watch the show?

I mean, did you watch any of the 6th season?

Yes i watched the show. Yes i watched the 6th season....why, whats wrong now?

[comerelaxnow]

So when Jacks eyes close on the island, is it safe to say that from that point he goes to the start of the 6th season where the plane never crashed and when he opens his eyes after the turbulance and Bernards wife says "you can let go now"

[javierm27]

So when Jacks eyes close on the island, is it safe to say that from that point he goes to the start of the 6th season where the plane never crashed and when he opens his eyes after the turbulance and Bernards wife says "you can let go now"

Thats what I took it as, but there is no one right answer.

[monkeyman420]

So when Jacks eyes close on the island, is it safe to say that from that point he goes to the start of the 6th season where the plane never crashed and when he opens his eyes after the turbulance and Bernards wife says "you can let go now"
Yes. When he dies on the island his spirit or soul or consciousness then goes into the flash-sideways and starts with him on the plane. That's why he had that look on his face like he had a memory of something in the first scene on the plane to start this season.

[comerelaxnow]

Thats what I took it as, but there is no one right answer.

Makes sense to me.

[inmytree]

So when Jacks eyes close on the island, is it safe to say that from that point he goes to the start of the 6th season where the plane never crashed and when he opens his eyes after the turbulance and Bernards wife says "you can let go now"

Yeah, in Jack's timeline I feel that's right. But when Charlie drowned at the Looking Glass he was where he was in limbo, despite the fact that if you look at it like in a linear sense that would mean that something that "happened" after Jack's death would be happening while Jack was alive. That's why, although the flash-sideways sections obviously come after the characters' death, no conventional sense of linear timelines really apply there, nor should they.

[comerelaxnow]

Yes. When he dies on the island his spirit or soul or consciousness then goes into the flash-sideways and starts with him on the plane. That's why he had that look on his face like he had a memory of something in the first scene on the plane to start this season.

So..ok we are getting somewhere here. Lets say that everyone who flew off the island....Kate, Saywer ect. They go on, live full lifes, they die God knows when and when they die, they then jump back to the start of season 6 where they are on the plane. Thats why they forget they were ever on the island and thats why Desmond, Hurley and Ben have to find them, get them in situations where they can remember and then that way they can all go "home" together. BOOM!

[hbktonyb]

Juliette saying "it worked"...what worked?

[hulupputree]

^the vending machine trick?

[twistedmind1586]

There is one way this all makes sense: when the last of the losties finally died (let's say hurley) the waiting room suddenly activated and all the losties "went online" in the forms that we saw, which I guess was the plane ride. So there would be chronlogical time from that point forward, and they would all have fake memories of a past and a present that seemed familiar.

I don't really like that idea, mainly because it feels like a way to explain away a poorly thought out idea, but it kinda works.

When someone is born, do you think they're waiting around for 2000 years waiting to pop out of a vagina? No, they just are in whatever time it is. No waiting. Same thing with the sideways world.

[gocubsgo3822]

what if the island wasnt the most important part of their life anymore??? I mean i guess a plane crash is horrific but if they led full lives then they would maybe have had someone else they wanted to hang with in the after life

[comerelaxnow]

Alright! After watching the final episode again ive come a ver solid conclusion

1st off...i was wrong, they didn't die in the plane crash. Fine, i admit it. It was an early theroy i had which i thought would be kinda cool.

Season 6 episode 1. LAX. They are all in the airplane and turbulance hits but the plane calms down and they end up landing in LA going about what they think are their lives.

That scene in the airplane where they all end up not crashing is the begining of the time period between their actual deaths and their crossing over to the afterlife (purgatory if you may)

When Jack dies on the island in my belief that is when he opens his eyes on the airplane and Bernards wife says "You can let go now"

Kate, Saywer, Claire, ect...all of the ones who got off the island went on to live lives for an unspoken amount of time. Although when each of them died they (like jack) open their eyes and are on the plane headed to LA. Limbo for them too.

Hurley, Ben and Desmond stay on the island. Michael is dead but has to stay on the island as punishment for his sins.

They all end up dying, in diffrent times and diffrent places and all end up on that plane again leading into the sideways flashback. Then with help from eachother they slowly start remembering that they all knew eachother from the island. Jack is the last to remember until Kate brings him to place that leads him to remember and they all go into their afterlives together. BOOM!

For all of the people who died on the island, Anna lucia, Charlie, Boon, Shannon ect...they all follow suit and wake up on the plane headed to LAX. Since Time no longer plays a factor, it doesn't matter that they all die years apart from eachother, they all wake up at the same time on the plane going to LAX

[javierm27]

Alright! After watching the final episode again ive come a ver solid conclusion

1st off...i was wrong, they didn't die in the plane crash. Fine, i admit it. It was an early theroy i had which i thought would be kinda cool.

Season 6 episode 1. LAX. They are all in the airplane and turbulance hits but the plane calms down and they end up landing in LA going about what they think are their lives.

That scene in the airplane where they all end up not crashing is the begining of the time period between their actual deaths and their crossing over to the afterlife (purgatory if you may)

When Jack dies on the island in my belief that is when he opens his eyes on the airplane and Bernards wife says "You can let go now"

Kate, Saywer, Claire, ect...all of the ones who got off the island went on to live lives for an unspoken amount of time. Although when each of them died they (like jack) open their eyes and are on the plane headed to LA. Limbo for them too.

Hurley, Ben and Desmond stay on the island. Michael is dead but has to stay on the island as punishment for his sins.

They all end up dying, in diffrent times and diffrent places and all end up on that plane again leading into the sideways flashback. Then with help from eachother they slowly start remembering that they all knew eachother from the island. Jack is the last to remember until Kate brings him to place that leads him to remember and they all go into their afterlives together. BOOM!

For all of the people who died on the island, Anna lucia, Charlie, Boon, Shannon ect...they all follow suit and wake up on the plane headed to LAX. Since Time no longer plays a factor, it doesn't matter that they all die years apart from eachother, they all wake up at the same time on the plane going to LAX

That is certainly a great take on it to me and what I came away from it for the most part.

[RJP2741]

Yeah this is the other problem. I get what Christian said about time not existing, and that works for the idea that everyone just arrives when they die, and when they've all realized their island lives, they move on together.

But these people lived chronological lives. For all the talk of time not mattering, it seems to matter a lot. Jack obviously had to concieve and raise a son who grew older. Sawyer remembers the con man from his youth. Kate killed someone and was chased for years. Did none of the losties age? And what age did they enter the FS?

This is what I meant earlier when I said you can only accept part of the writers rules if you want this to make any sense.

That's the question I've had with the FS, in terms of maybe their bodies exist in the FS with these fully fleshed out chronologies (Jack's kid, Sawyer's childhood, etc) but it is only when the real world version dies that their soul is transferred to the FS version. Although that wouldn't factor in if Hurley lives another 100 years as Island guardian or anything.

There is one way this all makes sense: when the last of the losties finally died (let's say hurley) the waiting room suddenly activated and all the losties "went online" in the forms that we saw, which I guess was the plane ride. So there would be chronlogical time from that point forward, and they would all have fake memories of a past and a present that seemed familiar.

I don't really like that idea, mainly because it feels like a way to explain away a poorly thought out idea, but it kinda works.

This was my other thought too. Perhaps they have perpetually been on Sideways Flight 815, and only when the last of them has died can the plane land. Or something to that effect, allowing them to all start their FS lives at the same time. Though, then you can't really explain the backstories.

[thebridge15]

Juliette saying "it worked"...what worked?

^the vending machine trick?They put that line in there to keep alive the theory that the bomb made it so that the plane never crashed, etc. They put the line in the finale to wrap up why she said that, because there really was nothing else to do with it.

[thebridge15]

Alright! After watching the final episode again ive come a ver solid conclusion

1st off...i was wrong, they didn't die in the plane crash. Fine, i admit it. It was an early theroy i had which i thought would be kinda cool.

Season 6 episode 1. LAX. They are all in the airplane and turbulance hits but the plane calms down and they end up landing in LA going about what they think are their lives.

That scene in the airplane where they all end up not crashing is the begining of the time period between their actual deaths and their crossing over to the afterlife (purgatory if you may)

When Jack dies on the island in my belief that is when he opens his eyes on the airplane and Bernards wife says "You can let go now"

Kate, Saywer, Claire, ect...all of the ones who got off the island went on to live lives for an unspoken amount of time. Although when each of them died they (like jack) open their eyes and are on the plane headed to LA. Limbo for them too.

Hurley, Ben and Desmond stay on the island. Michael is dead but has to stay on the island as punishment for his sins.

They all end up dying, in diffrent times and diffrent places and all end up on that plane again leading into the sideways flashback. Then with help from eachother they slowly start remembering that they all knew eachother from the island. Jack is the last to remember until Kate brings him to place that leads him to remember and they all go into their afterlives together. BOOM!

For all of the people who died on the island, Anna lucia, Charlie, Boon, Shannon ect...they all follow suit and wake up on the plane headed to LAX. Since Time no longer plays a factor, it doesn't matter that they all die years apart from eachother, they all wake up at the same time on the plane going to LAXI like this.

[javierm27]

They put that line in there to keep alive the theory that the bomb made it so that the plane never crashed, etc. They put the line in the finale to wrap up why she said that, because there really was nothing else to do with it.

I dont agree with that I think that line was there to sum up what was going on in the island with Desmond removing the plug from the island and then jack putting it back.

[comerelaxnow]

I like this.

Whew!! I knew eventually we'd see eye to eye. My main flaw which bites me in the ass in my daily life is that i speak in the moment of my thoughts.

Anyways...amazing show, amazing ending.

[DoDaFoo]

Alright! After watching the final episode again ive come a ver solid conclusion

1st off...i was wrong, they didn't die in the plane crash. Fine, i admit it. It was an early theroy i had which i thought would be kinda cool.

Season 6 episode 1. LAX. They are all in the airplane and turbulance hits but the plane calms down and they end up landing in LA going about what they think are their lives.

That scene in the airplane where they all end up not crashing is the begining of the time period between their actual deaths and their crossing over to the afterlife (purgatory if you may)

When Jack dies on the island in my belief that is when he opens his eyes on the airplane and Bernards wife says "You can let go now"

Kate, Saywer, Claire, ect...all of the ones who got off the island went on to live lives for an unspoken amount of time. Although when each of them died they (like jack) open their eyes and are on the plane headed to LA. Limbo for them too.

Hurley, Ben and Desmond stay on the island. Michael is dead but has to stay on the island as punishment for his sins.

They all end up dying, in diffrent times and diffrent places and all end up on that plane again leading into the sideways flashback. Then with help from eachother they slowly start remembering that they all knew eachother from the island. Jack is the last to remember until Kate brings him to place that leads him to remember and they all go into their afterlives together. BOOM!

For all of the people who died on the island, Anna lucia, Charlie, Boon, Shannon ect...they all follow suit and wake up on the plane headed to LAX. Since Time no longer plays a factor, it doesn't matter that they all die years apart from eachother, they all wake up at the same time on the plane going to LAX

Exactly what I think as well.

[thebridge15]

Whew!! I knew eventually we'd see eye to eye. My main flaw which bites me in the ass in my daily life is that i speak in the moment of my thoughts.

Anyways...amazing show, amazing ending.As long as you're in the island is life, FS is afterlife camp, I'm with it.

[scrock25]

Dude I just watched the end of the finale again and I got to say that I love it even more the second time, it was way more powerful. In the end the show was always about the characters. Because of that I really couldn't care less about all those little questions that weren't answered. All these people bitching and complaining can kiss my ass. The ending was perfect. People say it cheapens the series on the whole. I don't agree, the plot was the engine that invested us all in the incredibly written characters. And what made me shed a tear when it was over.

[hulupputree]

They put that line in there to keep alive the theory that the bomb made it so that the plane never crashed, etc. They put the line in the finale to wrap up why she said that, because there really was nothing else to do with it.


Right. We were led to believe she was talking about the bomb, when in context she was referring to unplugging/re-plugging the vending machine to get the Apollo bar.

[JacobLovesYou]

what if the island wasnt the most important part of their life anymore??? I mean i guess a plane crash is horrific but if they led full lives then they would maybe have had someone else they wanted to hang with in the after life

well only a few people went on and had "full lives"... most everybody else was already dead. and the ones that went on to live full lives were most certainly changed and the rest of their lives were impacted by what happened and what they learned about themselves on the island.

[Rodey]

Alright! After watching the final episode again ive come a ver solid conclusion

1st off...i was wrong, they didn't die in the plane crash. Fine, i admit it. It was an early theroy i had which i thought would be kinda cool.

Season 6 episode 1. LAX. They are all in the airplane and turbulance hits but the plane calms down and they end up landing in LA going about what they think are their lives.

That scene in the airplane where they all end up not crashing is the begining of the time period between their actual deaths and their crossing over to the afterlife (purgatory if you may)

When Jack dies on the island in my belief that is when he opens his eyes on the airplane and Bernards wife says "You can let go now"

Kate, Saywer, Claire, ect...all of the ones who got off the island went on to live lives for an unspoken amount of time. Although when each of them died they (like jack) open their eyes and are on the plane headed to LA. Limbo for them too.

Hurley, Ben and Desmond stay on the island. Michael is dead but has to stay on the island as punishment for his sins.

They all end up dying, in diffrent times and diffrent places and all end up on that plane again leading into the sideways flashback. Then with help from eachother they slowly start remembering that they all knew eachother from the island. Jack is the last to remember until Kate brings him to place that leads him to remember and they all go into their afterlives together. BOOM!

For all of the people who died on the island, Anna lucia, Charlie, Boon, Shannon ect...they all follow suit and wake up on the plane headed to LAX. Since Time no longer plays a factor, it doesn't matter that they all die years apart from eachother, they all wake up at the same time on the plane going to LAX

I like this as well, seems to make a lot of sense in terms of the FS.

[pats4life2003]

can someone explain what happened in the last episode. didn't watch it. don't want to. just wondering

[hbktonyb]

can someone explain what happened in the last episode. didn't watch it. don't want to. just wondering

Jack died, Hurley is the new Jacob with Ben as his right hand man, Desmond remained on the island, the others that were still alive left on a plane to live their life, they all met up in an afterlife.

LOST

[JacobLovesYou]

also important to note that it seemed as if hurley and ben's first order of business was to try and get desmond off the island somehow

[thebestauntie]

Jack died, Hurley is the new Jacob with Ben as his right hand man, Desmond remained on the island, the others that were still alive left on a plane to live their life, they all met up in an afterlife.

LOST
That's a pretty good recap of last night's episode. :lol

[pats4life2003]

i'm so lost.

[hbktonyb]

That's a pretty good recap of last night's episode. :lol

I thought so myself :lol

Have to mention once again how much I loved the finale and how much I loved LOST as a tv show. Yes, I wanted more, but I still loved it.

[thebestauntie]

i'm so lost.
Pun intended?

[PipeandaCrepe]

Yeah this is the other problem. I get what Christian said about time not existing, and that works for the idea that everyone just arrives when they die, and when they've all realized their island lives, they move on together.

But these people lived chronological lives. For all the talk of time not mattering, it seems to matter a lot. Jack obviously had to concieve and raise a son who grew older. Sawyer remembers the con man from his youth. Kate killed someone and was chased for years. Did none of the losties age? And what age did they enter the FS?

This is what I meant earlier when I said you can only accept part of the writers rules if you want this to make any sense.

My response to this would be that their memories in the FS are like those you can have in dreams. I don't know about yous guys, but sometimes I have dreams where I have a distinct understanding of things that have happened prior to any particular point in my dream (I remember them having happened during my dream, but I never actually played them out in my dream). Call them a set of circumstances or scenarios if you will. I think you could say that the Losties were all "dreaming" until they started meet each other and remember their real lives.

Having said all that, I really liked the finale and don't think they could have ended it much better. I'm glad they didn't try to more precisely answer "what is the island" or "what is the black smoke". I'm satisfied with the knowledge that the island is a place where miracles happen and the black smoke was something complex that I don't feel like writing all about right now.

Here's something quick that I noticed about the heart of the island that I haven't thought about much yet: it was at peace with the balance of fire & water (I don't think the water put out the fire, I think it kept it under control and reflected it's light)

[Norman Smiley]

Amazing show. Amazing ending.

Those who don't like it... just don't "get it"....

[pats4life2003]

haha no pun intended

[thebridge15]

I wonder what Richard was like when he got back to the real world...:lol

I'd bet he was really confused.

[JacobLovesYou]

I thought so myself :lol

Have to mention once again how much I loved the finale and how much I loved LOST as a tv show. Yes, I wanted more, but I still loved it.

same. i loved the finale and i love LOST as a television series. i can't see how i will ever have more fun watching a television show then i did with LOST. its been a great 6 years and i really hope to see michael emerson, terry o'quinn, josh holloway, and matthew fox in some new pilots over the next few years.

[hbktonyb]

same. i loved the finale and i love LOST as a television series. i can't see how i will ever have more fun watching a television show then i did with LOST. its been a great 6 years and i really hope to see michael emerson, terry o'quinn, josh holloway, and matthew fox in some new pilots over the next few years.

I think we will, other than Matthew Fox. He'll stick to movies, according to him.

Hopefully they are cast in some good cable/premium cable serial drama series..

[thebestauntie]

I thought so myself :lol

Have to mention once again how much I loved the finale and how much I loved LOST as a tv show. Yes, I wanted more, but I still loved it.
I will say Matthew Fox did a fantastic job in the finale.

[JacobLovesYou]

if i don't get to see terry oquinn and michael emerson act in a serious, good drama again, i will be sad.

i also think that in the fall of 2012 there will be a matthew fox pilot. i dont think his movie career is going to pan out the way he wants it to. hope so though i guess. i would also love to the locke monster and ben linus on the silver screen working their magic.

[thebestauntie]

if i don't get to see terry oquinn and michael emerson act in a serious, good drama again, i will be sad.

i also think that in the fall of 2012 there will be a matthew fox pilot. i dont think his movie career is going to pan out the way he wants it to. hope so though i guess. i would also love to the locke monster and ben linus on the silver screen working their magic.
Actually I liked the buddy cop show that Kimmel pitched last night. :lol

[thebridge15]

Carbonell, Emerson, and O'Quinn are all awesome actors. Hell, Benjamin Linus wasn't supposed to be an important character at all and Emerson's acting changed that entirely. Throw Cusick in there as well.

Can't support Perinneau but I've never seen Oz either.

[twistedmind1586]

Whew!! I knew eventually we'd see eye to eye. My main flaw which bites me in the ass in my daily life is that i speak in the moment of my thoughts.

Anyways...amazing show, amazing ending.

I agree with all the stuff you wrote, except for Desmond. I really believe Hurley and Ben let him go home to be with Penny and Charlie to live the rest of his life. Jack was still the leader of the island at the point of Desmonds rescue from the waterfall, and he wanted Desmond to go home, therefore, I think he did.

[twistedmind1586]

if i don't get to see terry oquinn and michael emerson act in a serious, good drama again, i will be sad.

i also think that in the fall of 2012 there will be a matthew fox pilot. i dont think his movie career is going to pan out the way he wants it to. hope so though i guess. i would also love to the locke monster and ben linus on the silver screen working their magic.

I would love to see those two work on stage, but I'd be more than happy with another TV series or a film that had those two in prominent roles. Their last scene was absolutely perfect.

[proppenator]

Michael Emerson for the Riddler in Batman 3. Make it happen.

[JacobLovesYou]

^talk to richard alpert, if anyone can, the mayor of gotham city can!

[junior94]

I wonder what Richard was like when he got back to the real world...:lol

I'd bet he was really confused.

Actually that especially stuck out to me, as well. I mean he wasn't returning to Isabella obviously, so he could potentially find an entirely new romantic relationship. But like, dude's gotta find an apartment, get a job to pay the bills, etc :lol Of course, he probably winds up going to live in Hawaii to remind himself of home :p

[JacobLovesYou]

richard became a linguist? got a masters in theology?

lapidus is DEFINITELY drunk on a beach yelling to anybody who will listen how he has 9 lives.

[proppenator]

^talk to richard alpert, if anyone can, the mayor of gotham city can!

good call, it can happen!