LOST (the tv show)

[Beebz]

[/left]

Yes it does.


uhhhh, you wanna explain that, or.......

[water_into_wine]

uhhhh, you wanna explain that, or.......

I mean I don't really understand how you think it doesn't...

[monkeyman420]

There's no emotional connection and no reason to care because we dont know why we should.

To me, its always been about the island and how those characters fit into that place. The island info is infinitely more interesting that some character-driven side story. Could be a personal preference, but Im far from the only one questioning the relavence of these FS stories.
If you have no emotional connection or don't care about the characters then why watch the show? The show is not about the island, it's about the characters on the island. We've been shown the lives of these characters for 5 years, and the FS now give us a glimpse as to what these characters would have been like if the plane had not crashed. There is a lot of similarities going on in the FS and current events happening on the island.

I love the island stuff as much as anyone, but it's not why I watch the show. I like the characters, I like all of the fate/free will/religious/philosophical ideas that get shown to us every week. If this show was about a mystical island with a bunch of characters who had no depth or meaning I wouldn't watch the show.

[uro55]

They way Richard Alpert was talking last night, am I wrong to think or assume he came to the Island on the Black Rock?

[pathetic]

They way Richard Alpert was talking last night, am I wrong to think or assume he came to the Island on the Black Rock?

that was our assumption even before Flocke said "nice to see you out of those chains" or someting like that

since jacob brought richard to the island, the black rock seemed like one of the only explanations of how richard reached the island.

[RJP2741]

If you have no emotional connection or don't care about the characters then why watch the show? The show is not about the island, it's about the characters on the island. We've been shown the lives of these characters for 5 years, and the FS now give us a glimpse as to what these characters would have been like if the plane had not crashed. There is a lot of similarities going on in the FS and current events happening on the island.

I love the island stuff as much as anyone, but it's not why I watch the show. I like the characters, I like all of the fate/free will/religious/philosophical ideas that get shown to us every week. If this show was about a mystical island with a bunch of characters who had no depth or meaning I wouldn't watch the show.

This is the important thing. The flash-sideways have no emotional connection because these aren't the characters we've been watching for 5 years now. They are a different set of characters played by the same actors who we haven't followed through a series of experiences on the Island. That's why they don't hold any weight for me, and I think that's what Brian was getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There's nothing substantial about these Sideways Scenes, they have no weight because as an audience all the clues we have about them are that it is just a nice "what-if" that has no relevance to the story we've been following yet.

[uro55]

that was our assumption even before Flocke said "nice to see you out of those chains" or someting like that

since jacob brought richard to the island, the black rock seemed like one of the only explanations of how richard reached the island.

Oh, I didn't get that part/put those two things togeather:)

[RJP2741]

They way Richard Alpert was talking last night, am I wrong to think or assume he came to the Island on the Black Rock?

that was our assumption even before Flocke said "nice to see you out of those chains" or someting like that

since jacob brought richard to the island, the black rock seemed like one of the only explanations of how richard reached the island.

Exactly. There have also been several references indicating that Richard is very, very old. And The Black Rock is the oldest mode of transportation we've seen on the island.

[jmkratt]

I think we know for certain Richard arrived on the Black Rock.

We now know for certain the Candidates are there to replace Jacob, which we suspected.

We know that by touching people Jacob protects them, which we suspected.

There are 6 Candidates.

We know that Emerson is one hell of an actor. That guy is awesome.

[jkrue22]

Yeah, that's all well and good, but who cares? Its more like a nice little webisode moment than essential storytelling that dominates half an episode. There's no emotional connection and no reason to care because we dont know why we should.

To me, its always been about the island and how those characters fit into that place. The island info is infinitely more interesting that some character-driven side story. Could be a personal preference, but Im far from the only one questioning the relavence of these FS stories.

I disagree... we've talked a lot about how Lost is a character-driven story. Without knowing and appreciating the characters, it is just another sci-fi drama on a [not-so]deserted island. And the flashbacks/forwards/sideways are an integral component in fleshing out the characters. I think the times I was most excited watching this show were in Season 1, with each new flashback as we learned more about each character's checkered past. (e.g.: Holy crap an Iraqi torturer! He was in a wheelchair?! etc.) If all the characters were drawn to the island for a reason, then the flashes help us understand what that reason might be.

I have Locke-like (or Jack-like?) faith that these sideways stories will prove important in a few episodes after this "slow burn" as Darlton called it.

[monkeyman420]

This is the important thing. The flash-sideways have no emotional connection because these aren't the characters we've been watching for 5 years now. They are a different set of characters played by the same actors who we haven't followed through a series of experiences on the Island. That's why they don't hold any weight for me, and I think that's what Brian was getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There's nothing substantial about these Sideways Scenes, they have no weight because as an audience all the clues we have about them are that it is just a nice "what-if" that has no relevance to the story we've been following yet.
I can understand that, but now that we know the island did exist in the FS, and that Dharma was there and Ben and his father were there, I think the FS are now going to really start to merge or integrate with what is currently happening on the island. As I said before, there are a lot of parallels with what is happening in the FS with current island events.

[Beebz]

This is the important thing. The flash-sideways have no emotional connection because these aren't the characters we've been watching for 5 years now. They are a different set of characters played by the same actors who we haven't followed through a series of experiences on the Island. That's why they don't hold any weight for me, and I think that's what Brian was getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There's nothing substantial about these Sideways Scenes, they have no weight because as an audience all the clues we have about them are that it is just a nice "what-if" that has no relevance to the story we've been following yet.

This.

I disagree... we've talked a lot about how Lost is a character-driven story. Without knowing and appreciating the characters, it is just another sci-fi drama on a [not-so]deserted island. And the flashbacks/forwards/sideways are an integral component in fleshing out the characters. I think the times I was most excited watching this show were in Season 1, with each new flashback as we learned more about each character's checkered past. (e.g.: Holy crap an Iraqi torturer! He was in a wheelchair?! etc.) If all the characters were drawn to the island for a reason, then the flashes help us understand what that reason might be.

I have Locke-like (or Jack-like?) faith that these sideways stories will prove important in a few episodes after this "slow burn" as Darlton called it.

Im not saying the characters dont matter. Not at all. Just that if you take those characters out of the island setting at this point in the story, they dont matter anymore.

Yes, the flashbacks and flashforward were interesting because it gave us more insight on the story and the people. These FS dont do anything close to that. Its just people who are sorta like the island people doing things that are sorta like their old characters did, sometimes with slight variations. Who really cares? Its neat, but its not integral. The island--and the people on it--is everything.

[uro55]

Exactly. There have also been several references indicating that Richard is very, very old. And The Black Rock is the oldest mode of transportation we've seen on the island.

Oh ya, I know both those two things. I just hadn't put 2 and 2 togeather until his comment last night about not being back to it since he's been on the Island.

[Beebz]

I mean I don't really understand how you think it doesn't...

So if a nuclear bomb went off in 1977, why did Juliet come to the island? How was Ben there? How was the island still there? Why wasnt the entire place vaporized? How were there people living on it for the entire time afterwards? They can survive they just cant have children? Makes no sense.

This is one of the classic examples of the writers biting off more than they could chew. There are too many timelines and mysteries to keep track of, and while some of these questions could be answered by the bomb detonating, there are still way too many holes for that to be the explanation.

[RJP2741]

I can understand that, but now that we know the island did exist in the FS, and that Dharma was there and Ben and his father were there, I think the FS are now going to really start to merge or integrate with what is currently happening on the island. As I said before, there are a lot of parallels with what is happening in the FS with current island events.

Yeah, that is clear enough. The sideways stories every episode have done a good job of mimicking that character's arc from earlier seasons as well as mirroring the experiences they were having on the island at that very moment. But once we as the audience understood that (half-way through LA X) it started becoming redundant. Cool to see, because we got to see some of the minor characters pop up again, but repetitive. The Sideways story hasn't advanced past that mirroring of island events thing.

And yes, we now know the Island existed in the Sideways world, but it would have been better to find out when exactly Ben and his dad left. Was it 1975? or 1980? Because that would certainly play a role.

[breckbrew]

This is the important thing. The flash-sideways have no emotional connection because these aren't the characters we've been watching for 5 years now. They are a different set of characters played by the same actors who we haven't followed through a series of experiences on the Island. That's why they don't hold any weight for me, and I think that's what Brian was getting at (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). There's nothing substantial about these Sideways Scenes, they have no weight because as an audience all the clues we have about them are that it is just a nice "what-if" that has no relevance to the story we've been following yet.

This is also why we shouldn't be concerned about who the DeGroots are/were, what the hatch map means, and a host of other stuff like that. Those things were intriguing and sucked us in to search for more, but that's exactly what they were designed to do - the writers dropped things here and there for us to talk about/investigate and try to fill in the blanks ourselves. These are great things to think about, but in the grand scheme of things, they're pretty unimportant and I never expected to have the writers serve up full explanations on silver platters.

[water_into_wine]

So if a nuclear bomb went off in 1977, why did Juliet come to the island? How was Ben there? How was the island still there? Why wasnt the entire place vaporized? How were there people living on it for the entire time afterwards? They can survive they just cant have children? Makes no sense.

This is one of the classic examples of the writers biting off more than they could chew. There are too many timelines and mysteries to keep track of, and while some of these questions could be answered by the bomb detonating, there are still way too many holes for that to be the explanation.

For the Island Timeline the bomb caused a release of energy that transported the Losties to 1977. No one else actually died in 1977 (For the Island Timeline at least). They transported forward in time so everything that had happened, happened. Chang had his arm hurt, radiation was all over the island leaving no births, Ben was still there, etc. The bomb didn't work in this timeline, but it did release the energy and radiation. It makes sense.

[Beebz]

Jensen's dissertation is up:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20350039_2,00.html

[Beebz]

For the Island Timeline the bomb caused a release of energy that transported the Losties to 1977. No one else actually died in 1977 (For the Island Timeline at least). They transported forward in time so everything that had happened, happened. Chang had his arm hurt, radiation was all over the island leaving no births, Ben was still there, etc. The bomb didn't work in this timeline, but it did release the energy and radiation. It makes sense.

They were already in 1977 when they detonated the bomb, Tony. The release pushed them to 2007. Is that what you meant?

So the bomb released energy that transported the castaways. OK. Even if I accept that, how did the bomb not damage anything in 1977? Why wasnt everything destroyed? How come adults can survive the radiation yet all the babies die? And if its because the bomb never went off, then why the birth problems? You cant just say that there's radiation and energy but nothing else blew up, ya know?

Its too convenient. I think your theory is what the writers are going with, but there are huge holes that they're asking us to ignore. "Oh, the bomb went off, didnt kill anyone that was within six feet of it, but it left behind a massive amount of radiation that scarred the island for three decades."

[Beebz]

Decent question:

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING! I have no doubt the burning question that'll be making the rounds in the Lost fan culture is going to be this: Is Sideways Locke actually...THE MAN IN BLACK/SMOKEY/FAKE LOCKE.

I mean, it could be. Its not that far out there. Well, for Lost anyway.

[RJP2741]

Decent question:

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING! I have no doubt the burning question that'll be making the rounds in the Lost fan culture is going to be this: Is Sideways Locke actually...THE MAN IN BLACK/SMOKEY/FAKE LOCKE.

I mean, it could be. Its not that far out there. Well, for Lost anyway.

Wow, that never even crossed my mind actually. It certainly could end up being possible though.

[water_into_wine]

They were already in 1977 when they detonated the bomb, Tony. The release pushed them to 2007. Is that what you meant?

So the bomb released energy that transported the castaways. OK. Even if I accept that, how did the bomb not damage anything in 1977? Why wasnt everything destroyed? How come adults can survive the radiation yet all the babies die? And if its because the bomb never went off, then why the birth problems? You cant just say that there's radiation and energy but nothing else blew up, ya know?

Its too convenient. I think your theory is what the writers are going with, but there are huge holes that they're asking us to ignore. "Oh, the bomb went off, didnt kill anyone that was within six feet of it, but it left behind a massive amount of radiation that scarred the island for three decades."

Yes, I mistyped.

The way I see it is that the bomb went off and it released the energy pocket that transported the Losties. With that release the energy pocket absorbed a lot of the bomb's explosion but left the Island with damaging radiation that means no more babies on the Island.

Is it convenient? Maybe, but my point remains. They gave us the pieces to solve the puzzle. We know their answer for why there was a birth problem and to be honest it doesn't matter anymore so we can't expect them to have a chat about it at any point. Juliet is dead and Dharma is frankly in the past. That stuff really isn't important anymore and if you still think it is then you are going to hate this season.

I do wish they wouldn't be a-holes though and say they won't talk about LOST after the finale. Just do a fucking DVD special that gives us a shit-ton of answers about stuff that doesn't matter anymore.

[RJP2741]

Yes, I mistyped.

The way I see it is that the bomb went off and it released the energy pocket that transported the Losties. With that release the energy pocket absorbed a lot of the bomb's explosion but left the Island with damaging radiation that means no more babies on the Island.

Is it convenient? Maybe, but my point remains. They gave us the pieces to solve the puzzle. We know their answer for why there was a birth problem and to be honest it doesn't matter anymore so we can't expect them to have a chat about it at any point. Juliet is dead and Dharma is frankly in the past. That stuff really isn't important anymore and if you still think it is then you are going to hate this season.

I do wish they wouldn't be a-holes though and say they won't talk about LOST after the finale. Just do a fucking DVD special that gives us a shit-ton of answers about stuff that doesn't matter anymore.

I'm sure this will happen eventually. But first they will release Season 6 on its own, and then release Seasons 1-6 as a package, and then finally they'll make a Collectors Edition 1-6 with some extra bonus content from Darlton.

[water_into_wine]

I'm sure this will happen eventually. But first they will release Season 6 on its own, and then release Seasons 1-6 as a package, and then finally they'll make a Collectors Edition 1-6 with some extra bonus content from Darlton.

And by that point I won't give a shit.

[Beebz]

Yes, I mistyped.

The way I see it is that the bomb went off and it released the energy pocket that transported the Losties. With that release the energy pocket absorbed a lot of the bomb's explosion but left the Island with damaging radiation that means no more babies on the Island.

Is it convenient? Maybe, but my point remains. They gave us the pieces to solve the puzzle. We know their answer for why there was a birth problem and to be honest it doesn't matter anymore so we can't expect them to have a chat about it at any point. Juliet is dead and Dharma is frankly in the past. That stuff really isn't important anymore and if you still think it is then you are going to hate this season.

I do wish they wouldn't be a-holes though and say they won't talk about LOST after the finale. Just do a fucking DVD special that gives us a shit-ton of answers about stuff that doesn't matter anymore.

I dont care about Dharma and Juliet. I do care that the babies explanation makes no sense. Or, at the very least, requires some insane gaps in logic to make it make sense.

I think they go out of their way to be dicks about stuff. On the one hand I dont blame them because I cant imagine how insufferable Lost fans must be. They probably cant go anywhere without being bombarded with questions.

On the other hand, they created this monster. They've done quite well with it, largely because they convinced viewers that every single thing happens for a reason and that there was a method behind this massive story. Essentially, we stuck around because we wanted answers to all of these things. I dont think its too much to ask to fill in some blanks....unless of course they dont have answers to a lot of these things, which is my hypothesis.

[gocubsgo3822]

Linus's daughter is hot

[pathetic]

Linus's daughter is hot

i thought he was gonna bang her in the FS. they just kept awkwardly looking at each other

[monkeyman420]

They were already in 1977 when they detonated the bomb, Tony. The release pushed them to 2007. Is that what you meant?

So the bomb released energy that transported the castaways. OK. Even if I accept that, how did the bomb not damage anything in 1977? Why wasnt everything destroyed? How come adults can survive the radiation yet all the babies die? And if its because the bomb never went off, then why the birth problems? You cant just say that there's radiation and energy but nothing else blew up, ya know?

Its too convenient. I think your theory is what the writers are going with, but there are huge holes that they're asking us to ignore. "Oh, the bomb went off, didnt kill anyone that was within six feet of it, but it left behind a massive amount of radiation that scarred the island for three decades."
Couple things here. To begin with, we need to think about the statue on the island. The statue depicts Taweret, the Egyptian goddess of birth, rebirth and the northern sky. We've seen the statue intact and broken. When the statue was intact, babies were born on the island (Ethan is perfect example). With the statue broken, no babies. If what Faraday said that what happened, happened, one could then theorize that Juliet setting off the bomb led to the statue being broken, which could lead to the reason as to why women who become pregnant on the island are not able to have the child on the island.

What we don't know is the effect the bomb detonating had on the island. Did the detonation put into place the sinking of the island? What happened to everyone on the island when the bomb detonated? Now that we know in the FS the island existed as well as Dharma, and that Ben was on the island, how did he get off? When did he get off the island? I don't think radiation is playing a part in the baby thing, i think it has more to do with the statue. Remember, Dr. Chang soke of an incident which is why the hatch was built. I think the incident, however, was changed when Juliet detonated the bomb. What I mean is that the incident always happened, but was more magnified when Juliet set off the bomb.

[breckbrew]

Decent question:

KNOW WHAT YOU'RE THINKING! I have no doubt the burning question that'll be making the rounds in the Lost fan culture is going to be this: Is Sideways Locke actually...THE MAN IN BLACK/SMOKEY/FAKE LOCKE.

I mean, it could be. Its not that far out there. Well, for Lost anyway.

Locke's character in the FS didn't really change much did he? Jack did, maybe so did Kate. Sayid seems like he tried to change, but didn't in the end.

Maybe team smokey in the FS doesn't really get the benefit of the experience of the island, but team jacob does? Ben seems to have changed and we see him joining up with team jacob again last night.

[RJP2741]

Locke's character in the FS didn't really change much did he? Jack did, maybe so did Kate. Sayid seems like he tried to change, but didn't in the end.
.

Physically? No. Mentally? Absolutely. In the Sideways storyline Locke's personality and mindset on life was the complete opposite of the Locke we saw for the first 5 seasons.

[Beebz]

Locke's character in the FS didn't really change much did he? Jack did, maybe so did Kate. Sayid seems like he tried to change, but didn't in the end.

Maybe team smokey in the FS doesn't really get the benefit of the experience of the island, but team jacob does? Ben seems to have changed and we see him joining up with team jacob again last night.

That's actually really interesting. We've seen Jack and Ben make complete role reversals. Kate too, so maybe she doesnt stay with Smokey. Locke is them only hole in that theory so far.

[breckbrew]

Physically? No. Mentally? Absolutely. In the Sideways storyline Locke's personality and mindset on life was the complete opposite of the Locke we saw for the first 5 seasons.

But was it different from pre-island Locke? On island, he was very optimistic and full of faith, but pre-island and in the FS, he seems like he has given up hope (doesn't end up calling Jack).

[dmbman32]

Without question, this was one of the (if not the) best episode of the season. It was very much reminiscent of Season 1. It had great character interactions, an interesting story, some answers, and most importantly, heart.

Ben, in my opinion, is a goner by series' end. But tonight's episode proved that even the most heartless, cold, mass murderer can have a soft side (ha ha). I also like how the "Good Guy Side" is shaping up (Jack, Hurley, Alpert, Sun, Frank, Ben, Illana, Miles). Where Widmore will fit into that, I'm guess with Jacob. But who knows.

I'm still maintaining that these "flash sideways" WILL be huge by the end of the series. There's no way they're just there to show a "what if," and nothing more. Either the characters will have the choice to remain on the island, or live the alternate lifestyle, or both, or whatever. But they're definitely going to play a big role at some point.

[Beebz]

But was it different from pre-island Locke? On island, he was very optimistic and full of faith, but pre-island and in the FS, he seems like he has given up hope (doesn't end up calling Jack).

But he accepted the fact that he cant do everything he wants, and that's OK. He came to peace with his situation, something that pre-island Locke never could have done.

[RJP2741]

But he accepted the fact that he cant do everything he wants, and that's OK. He came to peace with his situation, something that pre-island Locke never could have done.

Exactly. It was an internal transformation that was similar to Jack letting go of his daddy issues. It was about accepting that their pasts happened but moving on with their lives.

[pathetic]

But he accepted the fact that he cant do everything he wants, and that's OK. He came to peace with his situation, something that pre-island Locke never could have done.

OMGz!!!! dont tell him what he cant do!!!!!!!

[Beebz]

OMGz!!!! dont tell him what he cant do!!!!!!!

:lol:lol, well done.

[breckbrew]

But he accepted the fact that he cant do everything he wants, and that's OK. He came to peace with his situation, something that pre-island Locke never could have done.

Is that a result of his experience on the island though, or was the walkabout situation the final straw? To me, in the FS, Jack and Ben are different because of what they experienced on the island ( I think that was pretty clear from last night's episode, and we're starting to see it more with Jack).

[RJP2741]

Is that a result of his experience on the island though, or was the walkabout situation the final straw? To me, in the FS, Jack and Ben are different because of what they experienced on the island ( I think that was pretty clear from last night's episode, and we're starting to see it more with Jack).

We haven't seen nearly enough evidence in the FS to support this, imo. Its certainly possible but I don't think we've seen enough. Yes all of the FS have mirrored what's going on on the island, but none of the characters have acknowledged any of their Island experiences.

[pathetic]

:lol:lol, well done.

:lol

We haven't seen nearly enough evidence in the FS to support this, imo. Its certainly possible but I don't think we've seen enough. Yes all of the FS have mirrored what's going on on the island, but none of the characters have acknowledged any of their Island experiences.

except for ben and roger. i wish they went more in depth about it too

[water_into_wine]

except for ben and roger. i wish they went more in depth about it too

Yes, but it was an entirely different island experience.

[RJP2741]

:lol



except for ben and roger. i wish they went more in depth about it too

True, but that Ben clearly had different Island experiences than the Ben we know. None of the other characters have really given us any reason to think that they remember the time they spent on the island.

[breckbrew]

True, but that Ben clearly had different Island experiences than the Ben we know. None of the other characters have really given us any reason to think that they remember the time they spent on the island.

We might not either, they might have the results of their island experience, but not the memory of it - something doesn't seem right with their memory (Jack asking about when he had his appendix taken out) - that's why we need to wait till the end to see how this panned out.

[RJP2741]

Yeah, I'm willing to be patient, I just hope that these sideways stories aren't just an epilogue, because then I'll feel like they wasted half of the final season on something that ultimately I don't totally care about.

[jkrue22]

I think Widmore is on Smokey's side, which is why he wanted to "continue to the destination" (rendezvous at the Hydra island?) It seems he's been pissed ever since he got booted from the island, and he's been trying to find his way back. I'm guessing MIB offered him one of those Faustian bargains: a return to eternal life on the island in exchange for helping Locke "get back" to the island (which figured into MIB's loophole plan to kill Jacob).

There may also be a connection between Widmore's pseudonym for Locke (Jeremy Bentham) and the "panopticon" (Bentham's invention) of the Lighthouse.

Also I feel like Widmore has always been portrayed as an evil character without redeeming qualities (unlike Ben) and therefore he's better suited for Team Smokey. :) And if Ben and Widmore were proxies for the war between their masters, it now makes sense that Ben is on Team Jacob (even if he didn't communicate with him directly) and Widmore is on Team Smokey (in retaliation for his ousting).

[Beebz]

I think Widmore is on Smokey's side, which is why he wanted to "continue to the destination" (rendezvous at the Hydra island?) It seems he's been pissed ever since he got booted from the island, and he's been trying to find his way back. I'm guessing MIB offered him one of those Faustian bargains: a return to eternal life on the island in exchange for helping Locke "get back" to the island (which figured into MIB's loophole plan to kill Jacob).

There may also be a connection between Widmore's pseudonym for Locke (Jeremy Bentham) and the "panopticon" (Bentham's invention) of the Lighthouse.

Also I feel like Widmore has always been portrayed as an evil character without redeeming qualities (unlike Ben) and therefore he's better suited for Team Smokey. :) And if Ben and Widmore were proxies for the war between their masters, it now makes sense that Ben is on Team Jacob (even if he didn't communicate with him directly) and Widmore is on Team Smokey (in retaliation for his ousting).

First paragraph: Nicely done.

Second paragraph: You had to have taken that from somewhere. I dont even know what you're getting at, but that's a Jensenesque reference

Third paragraph: More solid work.

[gocubsgo3822]

Quick query i rewound the episode like 80 times but i cant make out what widmore said....... THoughts? Also i assume he is there to blo up said island?

[jkrue22]

Second paragraph: You had to have taken that from somewhere. I dont even know what you're getting at, but that's a Jensenesque reference


Hahaha I planned to write more about that, thanks. In the process of thinking about Widmore, I was trying to determine who he was working for when he helped Locke in Tunisia. Then I was wondering why he gave him the new name Jeremy Bentham. Thought it might have something to do with this from Lostpedia:

"The full circle design of The Dial and its mirrors is very similar to the concept of the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/panopticon), created by philosopher Jeremy Bentham, a prison building designed to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without them being able to tell whether they are being watched, conveying the sentiment of an invisible omniscience. In such a design, the observer is in the center of a circle and observes the prisoners by rotating around 360 degrees. Albeit magically, The Dial allows the same thing; Jacob was able to observe the off-Island lives of his candidates by rotating to their corresponding number."

[clcfball11]

Just back-read a couple pages, didn't see anything about this..so at the risk of looking like a complete dumbfuck..


"If Jacob touches you, you can't die."

Does this mean the real Locke is still alive somehow?

Or was the statement that you just can't kill YOURSELF if you've been touched by Jacob?

[pathetic]

Just back-read a couple pages, didn't see anything about this..so at the risk of looking like a complete dumbfuck..


"If Jacob touches you, you can't die."

Does this mean the real Locke is still alive somehow?

Or was the statement that you just can't kill YOURSELF if you've been touched by Jacob?

you cant kill yourself if jacob touches you...

[clcfball11]

you cant kill yourself if jacob touches you...

Which means Ben knew that when he stopped Locke from killing himself and killed him.

Awesome stuff.. :thumbsup

[jkrue22]

Just back-read a couple pages, didn't see anything about this..so at the risk of looking like a complete dumbfuck..


"If Jacob touches you, you can't die."

Does this mean the real Locke is still alive somehow?

Or was the statement that you just can't kill YOURSELF if you've been touched by Jacob?

I think the implication is that Jacob's touch is "a gift" that can vary from person to person... In Richard's case this means he doesn't age and can't kill himself (think LOTR elves). However he could still die by external circumstances.

But looking back it does seem like Jacob's touch has granted similar powers to other characters who have been saved from almost certain death (Locke a couple of times, others in the initial 815 crash) or suicidal attempts (Michael, Jack, Locke again).

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

Also, not a literal death, but the fact that Kate didn't get locked away, after like 35 felonies...seems like it might have to do with this.

[dh4645]

[/LEFT]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoyd1fe2x4g

"You can go now Michael."

yeah, i forgot about that...
but when did jacob actually touch michael before he tried to kill himself those few times?

i guess we don't really need to know when...it could have been in passing on a street somewhere. i was just wondering if there was a clip that seemed insignificant before we knew jacob where we see him touch michael.

[41ravens]

Which means Ben knew that when he stopped Locke from killing himself and killed him.

Awesome stuff.. :thumbsup

not necessarily.

[dh4645]

Quick query i rewound the episode like 80 times but i cant make out what widmore said....... THoughts? Also i assume he is there to blo up said island?

didnt he just say something about just ignoring the people on the beach and continuing on their course as planned?

edit:

just watched on abc.com. he says "No. Proceed as planned."

[pathetic]

yeah "proceed as planned" dont know what that means, but it's a hell of a aggravating way to end an episode :lol

[dh4645]

yeah "proceed as planned" dont know what that means, but it's a hell of a aggravating way to end an episode :lol

he just meant continue on the plotted course...probably to dock at the dock. hah.

[pathetic]

he just meant continue on the plotted course...probably to dock at the dock. hah.

another mystery solved!:multi

[breckbrew]

he just meant continue on the plotted course...probably to dock at the dock. hah.

beach the sub at the beach? :evil

[Beebz]

Hahaha I planned to write more about that, thanks. In the process of thinking about Widmore, I was trying to determine who he was working for when he helped Locke in Tunisia. Then I was wondering why he gave him the new name Jeremy Bentham. Thought it might have something to do with this from Lostpedia:

"The full circle design of The Dial and its mirrors is very similar to the concept of the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/panopticon), created by philosopher Jeremy Bentham, a prison building designed to allow an observer to observe (-opticon) all (pan-) prisoners without them being able to tell whether they are being watched, conveying the sentiment of an invisible omniscience. In such a design, the observer is in the center of a circle and observes the prisoners by rotating around 360 degrees. Albeit magically, The Dial allows the same thing; Jacob was able to observe the off-Island lives of his candidates by rotating to their corresponding number."

That's pretty good. :thumbsup

[jkrue22]

beach the sub at the beach? :evil

first it has to surface at the water's surface

[jmkratt]

Sub to the hydra station to meet FLocke?

[dh4645]

first it has to surface at the water's surface

haha what did i start

:evil

[keithcoldroses]

Hilarious theory from TWoP

I'd guess that the series ends with Locke and Jack (the successful candidate), sitting on the beach, Jack asking if Locke wants some fish. "No, I already ate." And maybe an oceanliner in the background...

[UNC41]

First paragraph: Nicely done.

Second paragraph: You had to have taken that from somewhere. I dont even know what you're getting at, but that's a Jensenesque reference

Third paragraph: More solid work.

It probably sounded Jensenesque because Jensen wrote this yesterday before the episode ...

If the Lighthouse really can be likened to a Panopticon, let us remind ourselves that Jeremy Bentham invented the panopticon. Let us also remind ourselves also that John Locke was given the ''Jeremy Bentham'' pseudonym by Charles Widmore, and when Locke asked why, Widmore explained that his choice was an inside joke. And who this season did we see cracking ''inside jokes'' inside Jacob's cave? Fake John Locke. We might wonder, then, if Charles Widmore truly was setting Locke up for his Fake Locke destiny.

I don't know if that guy pulled his reference from Jensen or not, but it definitely was Jensenesque. :)

[newscane]

Saw a preview screening of "Remember Me" tonight... starring Emilie de Ravin. Good movie, great seeing her.. :)

[jkrue22]

It probably sounded Jensenesque because Jensen wrote this yesterday before the episode ...

If the Lighthouse really can be likened to a Panopticon, let us remind ourselves that Jeremy Bentham invented the panopticon. Let us also remind ourselves also that John Locke was given the ''Jeremy Bentham'' pseudonym by Charles Widmore, and when Locke asked why, Widmore explained that his choice was an inside joke. And who this season did we see cracking ''inside jokes'' inside Jacob's cave? Fake John Locke. We might wonder, then, if Charles Widmore truly was setting Locke up for his Fake Locke destiny.

I don't know if that guy pulled his reference from Jensen or not, but it definitely was Jensenesque. :)

Although I do read Jensen, I didn't realize I was blatantly ripping him off when I wrote that... I've read so much about Lost over the past couple days it all blurs together. :) Sorry Doc.

[UNC41]

Although I do read Jensen, I didn't realize I was blatantly ripping him off when I wrote that... I've read so much about Lost over the past couple days it all blurs together. :) Sorry Doc.

I do the same, and can easily see how that could have subconsciously happened, so I didn't want to call you out. There's too much out there to read!

[Beebz]

Oh yes. Oh. Yes:

Just a heads up for those with TIVO's etc that the upcoming Episode 6.09 will run an additional 6 minutes on 23rd March.

That's Ab Aeterno. The Alpert ep.

[jkrue22]

Oh yes. Oh. Yes:

Just a heads up for those with TIVO's etc that the upcoming Episode 6.09 will run an additional 6 minutes on 23rd March.

That's Ab Aeterno. The Alpert ep.

As if I wasn't excited enough for this episode...It's gonna blow minds. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[41ravens]

Oh yes. Oh. Yes:

Just a heads up for those with TIVO's etc that the upcoming Episode 6.09 will run an additional 6 minutes on 23rd March.

That's Ab Aeterno. The Alpert ep.

shit. i'm going to have to remember this.

[RJP2741]

Oh yes. Oh. Yes:

Just a heads up for those with TIVO's etc that the upcoming Episode 6.09 will run an additional 6 minutes on 23rd March.

That's Ab Aeterno. The Alpert ep.

My expectations for this episode are ridiculously high.

[pathetic]

My expectations for this episode are ridiculously high.

same here. i imagine this episode will answer a hell of a lot of questions, and prob open up even more :lol

the relationship between widmore and richard never went sour right? just ben and widmore. i am trying to figure out how he's playing into this...i think i like team jacob. team smokey just seems like a bunch of people that are buying the temptations of Flocke...

[breckbrew]

Forgot to mention this earlier, but I thought Ben's lesson about Elba when he was teaching the high-school kids was great. Paraphrase: Being exiled to Elba (island) was the worst punishment for Napolean -sure he kept his title of emperor, but he was stripped of any real power." Kind of like Ben, he thought he was King of the Island, but really, he was just being used as a pawn by others/didn't really have any real power.

[hulupputree]

. team smokey just seems like a bunch of people that are buying the temptations of Flocke...

...except for Kate. :D

[uro55]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. But with a lot of old charactors coming back this season. Has there been any talk of Mr. Eko? I thought his charactor was great.

[pkrfan97]

According to the front page of lostpedia, the first hour of the season finale leaked online. I'm so downloading that when I get home :bounce

Edit: Oops, misread. That was for the first episode of the season :(

[pathetic]

...except for Kate. :D

she can easily be erased

[jkrue22]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. But with a lot of old charactors coming back this season. Has there been any talk of Mr. Eko? I thought his charactor was great.

He's my all-time favorite Lost character, but sadly I haven't heard any rumors about him reappearing this season. :( His Island story obviously came to an end and I don't see how he would figure into the Sideways reality... but there's always a chance.

[junior94]

According to the front page of lostpedia, the first hour of the season finale leaked online. I'm so downloading that when I get home :bounce

Edit: Oops, misread. That was for the first episode of the season :(

Even so, you were going to watch that without having yet seen the like 8-9 hours of story that comes directly before it? So much of it would be out of context. I mean I can understand those who wanted to DL the premiere weeks before it aired, but seeing material that's still so far ahead in the game makes no sense to me.

Besides, based on when we last heard Carlton was doing a rewrite on hour 15, yea there's no way in hell a finished version would exist yet.

[junior94]

I suppose one of the main questions from last night would be, is UnLocke lying to Ben, or to Sawyer? Because he indicates to Ben that the island does need a protector, a savior, and suggesting him to be the one who does it, but weeks ago he tried to sell Sawyer on the idea that the island is nothing more than a giant piece of land, nothing special and in no need of watching over.

[pathetic]

I suppose one of the main questions from last night would be, is UnLocke lying to Ben, or to Sawyer? Because he indicates to Ben that the island does need a protector, a savior, and suggesting him to be the one who does it, but weeks ago he tried to sell Sawyer on the idea that the island is nothing more than a giant piece of land, nothing special and in no need of watching over.

all temptations imo

Flocke knows better than anyone how much the island meant to ben. he knows ben is a power whore. what better gift than the island itself?

[jmkratt]

all temptations imo

Flocke knows better than anyone how much the island meant to ben. he knows ben is a power whore. what better gift than the island itself?

Agreed, seems to me like he tells the person whatever he thinks will persuade them to his cause.

[RJP2741]

all temptations imo

Flocke knows better than anyone how much the island meant to ben. he knows ben is a power whore. what better gift than the island itself?

Agreed, seems to me like he tells the person whatever he thinks will persuade them to his cause.

Both of these. I think it has to do with Smokie's ability to judge people. Though it will be interesting to see how he reacts to Ben going with Ilana.

[pathetic]

Agreed, seems to me like he tells the person whatever he thinks will persuade them to his cause.

yeah, i thought sawyer would be tougher to get, but after all that darma bourbon he downed, im sure anything sounded good to him...

[pathetic]

Both of these. I think it has to do with Smokie's ability to judge people. Though it will be interesting to see how he reacts to Ben going with Ilana.

:lol i was just thinking about the scene that ben was diggin his own grave and flocke approached him and used the force to unlock ben's chains :lol

[daveMathews48]

I don't know if this has been brought up before. But with a lot of old charactors coming back this season. Has there been any talk of Mr. Eko? I thought his charactor was great.

Yeah he had a great character. He was only killed off because the actor didn't like staying in Hawaii for shooting.

[jmkratt]

yeah, i thought sawyer would be tougher to get, but after all that darma bourbon he downed, im sure anything sounded good to him...

Dharma Bourbon sounds pretty fine to me right now too!

[jmkratt]

:lol i was just thinking about the scene that ben was diggin his own grave and flocke approached him and used the force to unlock ben's chains :lol

lol, Forgot about that. The Force must be strong with FLocke :lol

[pathetic]

Dharma Bourbon sounds pretty fine to me right now too!

just lose your girlfriend in a nuclear explosion?

[pkrfan97]

Even so, you were going to watch that without having yet seen the like 8-9 hours of story that comes directly before it? So much of it would be out of context. I mean I can understand those who wanted to DL the premiere weeks before it aired, but seeing material that's still so far ahead in the game makes no sense to me.

Besides, based on when we last heard Carlton was doing a rewrite on hour 15, yea there's no way in hell a finished version would exist yet.

Yeah I would have watched it. I'd think of it like a Memento situation: you're shown the beginning of the end, then you get to watch how it all came to be. I'd find it interesting.

[il bacio dolce]

Is it me or did virtually nothing happen in that last episode? Nothing really important. Ilana was going to kill Ben but then he got her to change her mind, in other words nothing happened except Ben dug a hole. There was more action in the pointless flash-sideways. That was more interesting.

[pathetic]

Is it me or did virtually nothing happen in that last episode? Nothing really important. Ilana was going to kill Ben but then he got her to change her mind, in other words nothing happened except Ben dug a hole. There was more action in the pointless flash-sideways. That was more interesting.

we found out some info from richard. hurley and jack joined ilana's group. ben was tested by smokie and refused the temptation. the principal was banging the nurse. we found out that if jacob touches you cant die. we found out richard doesnt trust the ghost of jacob or whoever it is talking to hurley. widmore found the island again

i thought it was the 2nd best ep of the season

[il bacio dolce]

I just got schooled.

I mighta been drunk.

[pathetic]

:shrug LOST cant please everyone

[CaffeineQueen]

So, I'm doing some rewatching. Did we ever find out who was shooting at Locke, Sawyer and them in season 5 during the time travel? They were on the little boat.

[junior94]

So, I'm doing some rewatching. Did we ever find out who was shooting at Locke, Sawyer and them in season 5 during the time travel? They were on the little boat.

HA! I just brought up this exact question less than a week ago on another site. The people there seemed to think it's more or less been proven to be Ilana & Bram's group (I'm not sure if that would mean during the time when Lapidus was unconscious traveling with them or not).

[junior94]

oh and also I'm finding out that apparently most other people aren't nearly as interested in the mystery of why Smokey makes the sounds he does as I am. See it's just that from the beginning, there are basic, familiar sounds that you'd think would tend to go along with the idea of something massive crushing all of its surroundings in its wake, but largely Smokey is NOT that. It has multiple very different and distinctive sounds, to the point where I've always gotten the impression there's a very specific purpose to those sounds, and knowing would help to give better insight into what Smokey is.

But I'm thinking more and more this is one of those anscilliary kind of mysteries to which we won't get much of an answer.

[water_into_wine]

HA! I just brought up this exact question less than a week ago on another site. The people there seemed to think it's more or less been proven to be Ilana & Bram's group (I'm not sure if that would mean during the time when Lapidus was unconscious traveling with them or not).

We'l never find this out but I assume this is the reason.

oh and also I'm finding out that apparently most other people aren't nearly as interested in the mystery of why Smokey makes the sounds he does as I am. See it's just that from the beginning, there are basic, familiar sounds that you'd think would tend to go along with the idea of something massive crushing all of its surroundings in its wake, but largely Smokey is NOT that. It has multiple very different and distinctive sounds, to the point where I've always gotten the impression there's a very specific purpose to those sounds, and knowing would help to give better insight into what Smokey is.

But I'm thinking more and more this is one of those anscilliary kind of mysteries to which we won't get much of an answer.

Bolded=Highly likely

Though I disagree that knowing why it makes the noises will help us understand it. It's the same as any other animal making noises.

[junior94]

We'l never find this out but I assume this is the reason.

Well I'll say that if this IS the answer, I'm not sure I see what the point of having that moment was. What it accomplished. Although, alright, I'll say that if anything it seemed to further illustrate the point that the universe was going to course-correct however much it had to in order to keep the losties from being harmed all throughout the time jumps. I think I heard D&C talk about this, that it wasn't necessarily arbitrary for why certain flashes lasted as long as they did (after all look back and realize that some periods the gang were in for mere minutes, some in for like half a day), like look at Locke getting shot by Ethan as a prime example, the flash occurred just quickly enough to get Locke out of real further danger, this was the course-correction at work. And, so, seemingly that was the same thing with them flashing in the moment of getting shot at from the other boat.

[CaffeineQueen]

Well I'll say that if this IS the answer, I'm not sure I see what the point of having that moment was. What it accomplished. Although, alright, I'll say that if anything it seemed to further illustrate the point that the universe was going to course-correct however much it had to in order to keep the losties from being harmed all throughout the time jumps. I think I heard D&C talk about this, that it wasn't necessarily arbitrary for why certain flashes lasted as long as they did (after all look back and realize that some periods the gang were in for mere minutes, some in for like half a day), like look at Locke getting shot by Ethan as a prime example, the flash occurred just quickly enough to get Locke out of real further danger, this was the course-correction at work. And, so, seemingly that was the same thing with them flashing in the moment of getting shot at from the other boat.

Yeah. I kind of have a feeling we may still find out. I mean with Flocke going to the other island, they may come back for some reason or other, hence the boats.

[Beebz]

I just got schooled.

I mighta been drunk.

Actually, very little happened to propel the plot--hell, as far as that goes, Jack and Hurley met up with the people on the beach. But the characters took massive leaps in terms of development. Jack is a confident man of faith; Ben found redemption, Richard regained his will to live. Those are major steps.

HA! I just brought up this exact question less than a week ago on another site. The people there seemed to think it's more or less been proven to be Ilana & Bram's group (I'm not sure if that would mean during the time when Lapidus was unconscious traveling with them or not).

Again, this is something that could be answered in one line from Ilana. But it won't.

[pathetic]

lol, Forgot about that. The Force must be strong with FLocke :lol

:lol i watched it again last night, he waves his hand and the chains unlock hahahaha

[hulupputree]

oh and also I'm finding out that apparently most other people aren't nearly as interested in the mystery of why Smokey makes the sounds he does as I am. See it's just that from the beginning, there are basic, familiar sounds that you'd think would tend to go along with the idea of something massive crushing all of its surroundings in its wake, but largely Smokey is NOT that. It has multiple very different and distinctive sounds, to the point where I've always gotten the impression there's a very specific purpose to those sounds, and knowing would help to give better insight into what Smokey is.

But I'm thinking more and more this is one of those anscilliary kind of mysteries to which we won't get much of an answer.


Yeah...like Locke's adding machine in his cubicle from season one (Walkabout, I believe). The sound carries into black before commercial. It's the same Smokie noise.

I've always found this bit pretty curious!

[zigbaldi]

I had wondered if we were ever gonna actually meet the DeGroots in some way, but I think the ship's sailed.

If you're referring to Chang's arm, didn't the 5th finale answer that?


I forget, i know we are under the assumption he died cause thats what miles mother told him, but did we actually see him die? I dont know. It would be nice to see him and miles reunited.

[GinaNMU]

Yeah...like Locke's adding machine in his cubicle from season one (Walkabout, I believe). The sound carries into black before commercial. It's the same Smokie noise.

I've always found this bit pretty curious!

The wheel and chains turning in the lighthouse sounded an awful lot like Smokey as well.

[GinaNMU]

So, I'm doing some rewatching. Did we ever find out who was shooting at Locke, Sawyer and them in season 5 during the time travel? They were on the little boat.

It would be AWESOME if they were able to tie this in somehow.

[Ascf33]

Hey I have a question...

I don't watch Lost or anything but I am good friends with "Jay" who does this podcast about Lost. Apparently it is very popular within the Lost community. Do you people know about this thing? Jay and Jack or something... is this a popular thing?

[CaffeineQueen]

So, I'm rewatching the season 5 finally, and NOW the bomb not going off when Jack threw it makes sense! Candidates can't kill themselves! ;)

[gocubsgo3822]

So, I'm rewatching the season 5 finally, and NOW the bomb not going off when Jack threw it makes sense! Candidates can't kill themselves! ;)

wasnt juliet a candidate as well though?

[CaffeineQueen]

wasnt juliet a candidate as well though?

Don't think so.

[DynastyDrummer1]

wasnt juliet a candidate as well though?

Apparently not...

[gocubsgo3822]

Don't think so.

Apparently not...

according to lostpedia her name is on the lighthouse wheel....

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lighthouse

[CaffeineQueen]

according to lostpedia her name is on the lighthouse wheel....

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lighthouse

Hmmm...

[DynastyDrummer1]

according to lostpedia her name is on the lighthouse wheel....

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Lighthouse

Yah but she was crossed out...

[gocubsgo3822]

Yah but she was crossed out...

but if shes a candidate she couldnt have detonatd the bomb.... maybe the bomb never worked.. and she died of getting cut by flying metal and shit

[CaffeineQueen]

but if shes a candidate she couldnt have detonatd the bomb.... maybe the bomb never worked.. and she died of getting cut by flying metal and shit

That's what I was thinking, maybe it was just a time flash? So confusing.

[gocubsgo3822]

That's what I was thinking, maybe it was just a time flash? So confusing.

i mean they never said it went off did it? In fact kinda just the opposite that sawyer said that jacks plan failed.... I dont think it went off...

[junior94]

Well let's also not forget what Richard told Sun last year the first time she met him and asked if he remembered Jin, did he know them in the 70's (when she was carrying their Dharma group photo), Richard replied "Yes, I saw him and the rest of your friends all die."

This is kinda why I was a little surprised that Richard wasn't more surprised when he first saw Sawyer, Jack and Hurley this year, that if apparently he witnessed them die in 1977...

[CaffeineQueen]

Well let's also not forget what Richard told Sun last year the first time she met him and asked if he remembered Jin, did he know them in the 70's (when she was carrying their Dharma group photo), Richard replied "Yes, I saw him and the rest of your friends all die."

This is kinda why I was a little surprised that Richard wasn't more surprised when he first saw Sawyer, Jack and Hurley this year, that if apparently he witnessed them die in 1977...

Yeah, I was curious about that one too. Hmm...

[gocubsgo3822]

jughead didnt go off

[junior94]

Totally had a LOST related dream last night, the first time that's ever happened (least that I can remember). I was with a group of people going to the airport, it was at least me, Jack, Ben and Locke (and I suppose he really was still Locke in the dream, not MiB), and I guess we were operating under some kind of instructions from Jack, because as I'm walking towards the gate in the airport, I know Locke is far ahead of me at this point, and Ben runs right by me on my right but knocking into me as he goes, and I realize when he's past that he's stuck some piece of paper secretly in my pocket. I stop and pull it out and read it, it's a handwritten note from him. It says something about how Locke has won and Ben is now following his lead and that I should as well. But for some reason I balk at this, I stop and turn around and go back to Jack who's still at the checkout counter, and I show him the note, saying that I'm sticking with him. That I refuse to go along with Ben and Locke.

Only other thing I remember is as I'm standing there behind him at the counter, I'm worrying about where my car is, but then I remember it's in the movie theater parking lot next door to the airport, and I guess that it will be alright left there while I'm gone (we're not necessarily going to the island on our plane btw, I don't know where we were supposed to be going).

and that's pretty much it :lol

[water_into_wine]

Totally had a LOST related dream last night, the first time that's ever happened (least that I can remember). I was with a group of people going to the airport, it was at least me, Jack, Ben and Locke (and I suppose he really was still Locke in the dream, not MiB), and I guess we were operating under some kind of instructions from Jack, because as I'm walking towards the gate in the airport, I know Locke is far ahead of me at this point, and Ben runs right by me on my right but knocking into me as he goes, and I realize when he's past that he's stuck some piece of paper secretly in my pocket. I stop and pull it out and read it, it's a handwritten note from him. It says something about how Locke has won and Ben is now following his lead and that I should as well. But for some reason I balk at this, I stop and turn around and go back to Jack who's still at the checkout counter, and I show him the note, saying that I'm sticking with him. That I refuse to go along with Ben and Locke.

Only other thing I remember is as I'm standing there behind him at the counter, I'm worrying about where my car is, but then I remember it's in the movie theater parking lot next door to the airport, and I guess that it will be alright left there while I'm gone (we're not necessarily going to the island on our plane btw, I don't know where we were supposed to be going).

and that's pretty much it :lol

Way to stick with Jacob.

This obviously was a real-life flash-sideways.

[junior94]

Way to stick with Jacob.

This obviously was a real-life flash-sideways.

Yes! And I guess maybe this means if I was following Jacob I am really pure at heart and deep down a good person, which is nice because honestly I'd been wondering there for awhile... :rolleyes:lol

[keithcoldroses]

Alex is so fucking hot.

Most female characters (recurring also) on this show are pretty fuckin hot...never really thought about it

[Styx Cover Band]

I'm watching season 2 on blu ray right now. I'm on episode 17 which is called 'Lockdown'. It's a Locke episode with the hatch locking Locke and Ben in. Well during the flash back part of the episode Locke is doing a home exception for Saaid's Nadia. I thought that was pretty crazy

[water_into_wine]

I'm watching season 2 on blu ray right now. I'm on episode 17 which is called 'Lockdown'. It's a Locke episode with the hatch locking Locke and Ben in. Well during the flash back part of the episode Locke is doing a home exception for Saaid's Nadia. I thought that was pretty crazy

Great episode.

Those connections will only increase.

[Beebz]

That's what I was thinking, maybe it was just another plot hole? So confusing.

Fixed.

i mean they never said it went off did it? In fact kinda just the opposite that sawyer said that jacks plan failed.... I dont think it went off...

That would kind of rule out the whole "people cant have babies because of the radiation" then, wouldnt it?

[Beebz]

Also, this is the title for the finale:

What they died for

[CaffeineQueen]

Also, this is the title for the finale:

What they died for

:lorraine:lorraine

[RJP2741]

Also, this is the title for the finale:

What they died for

This is kind of a big deal, I wouldn't recommend looking at this if you are trying to remain relatively spoiler free.

[pathetic]

This is kind of a big deal, I wouldn't recommend looking at this if you are trying to remain relatively spoiler free.

:lol i just looked, but it's vague, so i guess it's ok :lol

[DynastyDrummer1]

Oops... wish I hadn't looked haha

[jkrue22]

Eh, doesn't really spoil anything IMO... other than the penultimate episode may have some carnage

[Beebz]

Yeah I really didnt think that was much of anything. I almost didnt spoiler it.

[javierm27]

Also, this is the title for the finale:

What they died for

Awesome, I love it.

Can anyone post the remaining episode titles again? I tried backreading but wasn't able to find them. Thanks.

[pathetic]

"so a tribe of evil natives planted a ringer in our group to capture a pregnant women and some reject from VH1 Has beens...ya fiendishly clever" sawyer to walt s1e11 :lol

[javierm27]

So my Fiancee's new born cousin is named Jacob, haha. They kept calling him Jake which I didn't understand since I thought Jake was its own name and not a nickname. Any who, I googled Jacob nicknames and the names that appeared are Jake and Jack.

So LOST came to mind and Jacob=Jack, hahaha mystery solved.

[Rylan]

Re-watching s3 e12 right now and the Russian Eye-patch guy tells Kate she is not on "the list" because she is flawed.

[CaffeineQueen]

Re-watching s3 e12 right now and the Russian Eye-patch guy tells Kate she is not on "the list" because she is flawed.

yeah, I wondered about that.

[twistedmind1586]

Also, this is the title for the finale:

That's the title for ep 16, which is part 1 of the finale. I wonder if 17/18 (part 2) will have a different title?

[twistedmind1586]

Also, there was a scorecard for the first 9 episodes somewhere in this thread. Here is episodes 10-16 if anyone is interested.

Note: It says the title for the episodes, so if you consider that spoiler, don't look.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S55BNNaCMVI/AAAAAAAAyMI/E7H2YdNCT28/s640/newscorecared.png

[MacGuyver]

Happy Lost Day! Woo hoo! First time ever!

[Beebz]

Also, there was a scorecard for the first 9 episodes somewhere in this thread. Here is episodes 10-16 if anyone is interested.

Note: It says the title for the episodes, so if you consider that spoiler, don't look.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S55BNNaCMVI/AAAAAAAAyMI/E7H2YdNCT28/s640/newscorecared.png

I was just gonna post this. Those are some stunningly low scores, particularly on 6.16 (part one of the finale) and The Last Recruit. Those scores have been pretty accurate so far (for instance, I'm not looking forward to tonight's ep at all), so if there is something coming that's that bad this late in the game, I'm going to be irritated as shit.

[CaffeineQueen]

Happy Lost Day! Woo hoo! First time ever!

:multi:multi

[gocubsgo3822]

Was watching the origninal mighty ducks movie and Mr. Smiley is Gordon Bombay's driver after his Dui... Looks exactly the same...

Happy lost day!!!!!!

[41ravens]

Also, there was a scorecard for the first 9 episodes somewhere in this thread. Here is episodes 10-16 if anyone is interested.

Note: It says the title for the episodes, so if you consider that spoiler, don't look.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/S55BNNaCMVI/AAAAAAAAyMI/E7H2YdNCT28/s640/newscorecared.png

i didn't think they were even finished filming the finale yet.

[41ravens]

also, cool little tidbit that probably won't matter, but today is 3/16. ajira flight 316 is what brought them back to the island. doubt it means anything, but you never know with this show.

[Beebz]

i didn't think they were even finished filming the finale yet.

6.17/6.18 is the finale. I think....

[41ravens]

6.17/6.18 is the finale. I think....

ah, you could be right. cause they count the premiere and the finale as "one" episode, but they're two hours of show. so while we're only getting 16 episodes, it's actually 18 hours of show. i think that's right...

[clayj41]

One of my best friends is actually on spring break in Hawaii this week, and she says they are still there doing re-shoots.

[twistedmind1586]

I was just gonna post this. Those are some stunningly low scores, particularly on 6.16 (part one of the finale) and The Last Recruit. Those scores have been pretty accurate so far (for instance, I'm not looking forward to tonight's ep at all), so if there is something coming that's that bad this late in the game, I'm going to be irritated as shit.

Exactly what I was thinking. It is absolutely maddening how it seems like they have a great episode one week, followed by a completely mediocre one the next. With so many juicy storylines they can wrap up this year, it shouldn't be a problem writing compelling episodes. All I can think is maybe they're trying to do too much? Then again, maybe these people will be wrong, and I'll love the episodes, which is all I care about :lol

i didn't think they were even finished filming the finale yet.

It's based primarily on scripts, I think.

[RhodyDMBFan]

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzasextCyT1qzzta5o1_500.jpg :lol

[gocubsgo3822]

also, cool little tidbit that probably won't matter, but today is 3/16. ajira flight 316 is what brought them back to the island. doubt it means anything, but you never know with this show.

I wouldnt be shocked at all

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzasextCyT1qzzta5o1_500.jpg :lol

:lol:lol:lol

[RJP2741]

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kzasextCyT1qzzta5o1_500.jpg :lol

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[CrashTheStone41]

Pumped that I am actually home and can watch tonights episode on television... I hope its a good one!!

[pathetic]

blolololol :lol :lol

[UNLTrpt]

Did anybody let out a little "you son of a bitch" when Ben picks up the principals name plate and almost sat down in the chair? Thinking he screwed over Alex

[pathetic]

mmmmm alex :hump

[UNLTrpt]

Its a TARP!

[dh4645]

yeah lost!!!!

[dh4645]

nice

sawyer the cop

[CrashTheStone41]

mmmmm alex :hump

She looks a lot nicer cleaned up... dirty Alex was yummy too sometimes

[il bacio dolce]

Its a TARP!

lol Its a tarp?
This reminded me of the season one episode when a boar runs off with Sawyer's tarp.

[il bacio dolce]

She looks a lot nicer cleaned up... dirty Alex was yummy too sometimes

She is a hottie. Nice lips, long dark hair. Oh yeah.

[CrashTheStone41]

Sawyer THE COP? WTF is that shit haha

[il bacio dolce]

Detective! :)

He'd be good at it.

[dh4645]

dude charlotte is looking especially hot.
she never looked that good on the island.

we got half naked charlotte, kate and claire holding hands....all we need is alex on this weeks episode too and it would be the best ep ever. hah

[luke7]

Bitch slap !!!

That was funny !!

[CaffeineQueen]

Bitch slap !!!

That was funny !!

He flung her like a rag doll! :eek

[CrashTheStone41]

Claire is crazy... she deserved to get a whoopin

[dh4645]

He flung her like a rag doll! :eek

that was awesome

[yellowflame34]

dont trust this new chick

[UNLTrpt]

this ep. needs to get going.

[dh4645]

dont trust this new chick

take me to your leader
:p

[tarheel997]

dude..wait...what?

[luke7]

I liked James " been there, done that " attitude when he said " take me to your leader. "

[CaffeineQueen]

dont trust this new chick

Good intuition. Never trust the innocent looking ones! :lol

[tarheel997]

Who could their leader be? It's a little late in the game, it has to be someone we know. Walt? VINCENT???

[dmbredsox36]

Who could their leader be? It's a little late in the game, it has to be someone we know. Walt? VINCENT???

Widemore.

[yellowflame34]

so...probably whidmores people?

[CaffeineQueen]

Who could their leader be? It's a little late in the game, it has to be someone we know. Walt? VINCENT???

Vincent??? :lol

[wampa3]

Who could their leader be? It's a little late in the game, it has to be someone we know. Walt? VINCENT???
Rose

[tarheel997]

Vincent??? :lol

can you imagine how pissed the Lost community would get, oh man I hope its a talking Vincent

[dh4645]

widmore!

who's smokeys mom???

[luke7]

That was the most interesting part of this episode so far.

[tarheel997]

widmore!

who's smokeys mom???

Fire :evil

[CaffeineQueen]

Wait, so is Widmore team smokey?? I have a feeling Sawyer is being set up. Oh man.

[yellowflame34]

Dangerous, james. dangerous

[UNLTrpt]

Fire :evil

buhdumbum

[UNLTrpt]

snap her neck claire!

damn.

[dmbredsox36]

snap her neck claire!

damn.

:lol

[UNLTrpt]

Kate running. again.

awesome.

[yellowflame34]

whoaaaaa there. sonofabitch

[tarheel997]

weak ending but solid episode over all. next week is richard-centric? awesome :twenty4

[luke7]

Tonight's episode...hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[dh4645]

nice episode

cant wait for alpert's story

is it next week yet???

[CaffeineQueen]

I love me some Kate and Sawyer!

[RJP2741]

Interesting. Seemed like another stall episode, neither storyline advanced at all, though it was still much more interesting than What Kate Does.

[yellowflame34]

an hour less than a week left!

[wampa3]

Very uneventful episode. I think the only redeeming quality it had was that it will make next week seem like the best hour of television EVAR by comparison

[RJP2741]

Miles and Sawyer should have their own cop show that airs after LOST every week.

[proppenator]

Fantastic episode. Next week looks like it will be the best of the season.

[RJP2741]

Fantastic episode. Next week looks like it will be the best of the season.

:confused:confused What made it so great for you? I thought it was pretty average.

[RJP2741]

Though it did seem like more and more of John Locke's personality is getting into Smokie. Particularly when he was talking to Kate in the woods.

[proppenator]

:confused:confused What made it so great for you? I thought it was pretty average.

I thought the off-island story was interesting, and it set up some interesting stuff on-island. I love trying to figure out Sawyer's head-games

We have Widmore re-introduced into the storyline as well.

[twostepchris]

ok, i feel like an idiot asking this, because i've seen every episode and consider myself to be a pretty decent fan, but: why don't i remember that plane crash on the hydra island? can someone either explain it to me as though i'm an idiot, even though i'm not :) or tell me what episode to go back and watch> why am i blanking so much on where that plane came from (a Nigeria Flight, right?) ? That's not the one that brought the losties BACK to the island, right? what flight was that?
Help!?

[yellowflame34]

Miles and Sawyer should have their own cop show that airs after LOST every week.

Ha would definitely watch that

[hbktonyb]

Average episode, next week is the one that was rated really high. I can't wait.

[tarheel997]

ok, i feel like an idiot asking this, because i've seen every episode and consider myself to be a pretty decent fan, but: why don't i remember that plane crash on the hydra island? can someone either explain it to me as though i'm an idiot, even though i'm not :) or tell me what episode to go back and watch> why am i blanking so much on where that plane came from (a Nigeria Flight, right?) ? That's not the one that brought the losties BACK to the island, right? what flight was that?
Help!?

It is!


here http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Ajira_Airways_Flight_316

[dh4645]

ok, i feel like an idiot asking this, because i've seen every episode and consider myself to be a pretty decent fan, but: why don't i remember that plane crash on the hydra island? can someone either explain it to me as though i'm an idiot, even though i'm not :) or tell me what episode to go back and watch> why am i blanking so much on where that plane came from (a Nigeria Flight, right?) ? That's not the one that brought the losties BACK to the island, right? what flight was that?
Help!?

it was when some went to 1977 and some were in the plane that landed in 2007.

as said above

[twostepchris]

It is!

O, that's what I thought- but then, why isn't it all busted to shit? I realize i really have to go back and watch some dvd's to get refreshed, but- it looks like it just "crash landed", not busted up and dropped out of the sky...
Thanks for confirming that was the flight though, i'll just have to go do some reading and dvd watching to get refreshed all the way.

Just, that whole pile of relatively fresh bodies and basically fully intact plane really threw me off...

Edit: because we never have seen that yet, right> out heros just woke up all spread the hell out again in lagoons and stuff, right? Or am i missing some full episode where they camp around that plane? That bitch looks flyable! how did they land like that?!?

[pathetic]

episode was ok. i liked it, but we'll prob appreciate it more in a few weeks.

why the fuck couldnt claire get that knife down? damn, kate was almost a goner...meow

[junior94]

O, that's what I thought- but then, why isn't it all busted to shit? I realize i really have to go back and watch some dvd's to get refreshed, but- it looks like it just "crash landed", not busted up and dropped out of the sky...
Thanks for confirming that was the flight though, i'll just have to go do some reading and dvd watching to get refreshed all the way.

Just, that whole pile of relatively fresh bodies and basically fully intact plane really threw me off...

Edit: because we never have seen that yet, right> out heros just woke up all spread the hell out again in lagoons and stuff, right? Or am i missing some full episode where they camp around that plane? That bitch looks flyable! how did they land like that?!?

Yea that initially I have a big problem with. The Ajira plane suddenly looked in a lot better condition then when it originally crashed in the episode "316". When they first brought it up I'm thinking "there's no way in hell that thing could be made to fly again."

But even beyond that, I'm not sure I buy that Flocke's big plan of exiting the island hinges on the availability of a plane. I'm immediately reminded of the end of Star Trek 5, when the entity at first portraying itself as God says it needs a starship to get off the planet on which it appears to be imprisoned. As Kirk says "Hang on... why does God need a starship??"

[proppenator]

Yea that initially I have a big problem with. The Ajira plane suddenly looked in a lot better condition then when it originally crashed in the episode "316". When they first brought it up I'm thinking "there's no way in hell that thing could be made to fly again."

But even beyond that, I'm not sure I buy that Flocke's big plan of exiting the island hinges on the availability of a plane. I'm immediately reminded of the end of Star Trek 5, when the entity at first portraying itself as God says it needs a starship to get off the planet on which it appears to be imprisoned. As Kirk says "Hang on... why does God need a starship??"

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe Flocke here. I think there's more than he's letting on.

[dobyblue]

Haven't we only seen the plane that crashed in 1977 though, not the one that crashed in 2007? Maybe that's why the condition is drastically different?

[dh4645]

Haven't we only seen the plane that crashed in 1977 though, not the one that crashed in 2007? Maybe that's why the condition is drastically different?

no, the plane never crashed in 1977. the peeps just got transported off to 1977, the plane and the rest of the peeps went to 2007

the lostpedia linked above explains it all if you cant remember

[jmanheels]

Haven't we only seen the plane that crashed in 1977 though, not the one that crashed in 2007? Maybe that's why the condition is drastically different?

I thought Ajira 316 crashed in 2007, but some of the Losties got transported to 1977 first. I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

I'm starting to get confused though, how would Sawyer know what Ajira 316 even was? If it crashed in 2007, and he found Jack, Kate, etc in the jungle in 1977, and they just got transported back to 2007 when the bomb went off, then he can't know a whole lot about that plane, much less where it landed.

This time travel stuff is getting to my head.

[jmkratt]

Got the feeling Widmore isn't necesarily there to kill FLocke. Still not sold they are enemies, am I off on this?

[hbktonyb]

I think if we were watching this whole season in order, we would have different opinions. Writers are trying to tell a story, and they have everything drafted. This will probalby be more appreciated in the future.

[junior94]

I thought Ajira 316 crashed in 2007, but some of the Losties got transported to 1977 first. I could be wrong here, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.

I'm starting to get confused though, how would Sawyer know what Ajira 316 even was? If it crashed in 2007, and he found Jack, Kate, etc in the jungle in 1977, and they just got transported back to 2007 when the bomb went off, then he can't know a whole lot about that plane, much less where it landed.

This time travel stuff is getting to my head.

Well but it could maybe be assumed in all of the time since Ajira landed, Kate could've discussed some of the flight 316 with Sawyer at any point when they were in the 70's, or even since the jump, for that matter.

[Bartndrpleez]

i really think that one time travel part from season 5 where they shoot someone in a canoe is going to come into play soon and its definitely gonna be an 'oh shit' moment with who they decide to kill.

[gocubsgo3822]

I thought the episode was meh meh at best.. might have been the worst sawyer centric episode ever... that being said the sawyer catching kate thing was cool.

BUT NEXT WEEK WOW!!!!!!!!!! If that disapoints shoot me now.

[twistedmind1586]

i really think that one time travel part from season 5 where they shoot someone in a canoe is going to come into play soon and its definitely gonna be an 'oh shit' moment with who they decide to kill.

I do remember Sawyer saying, "thank you Lord!" right after the time flash. There would be some irony there.

[water_into_wine]

Greatest moment in Lost history occurred tonight.

Smokey bitch-slapping Claire had me dying with laughter.

[jkrue22]

Got the feeling Widmore isn't necesarily there to kill FLocke. Still not sold they are enemies, am I off on this?

You are probably correct. I predicted last week that Widmore is Team Smokey (especially with FLocke telling Ben to meet at the Hydra)... and nothing tonight discounted that theory. I really think Sawyer is being set up by both of them...

[water_into_wine]

You are probably correct. I predicted last week that Widmore is Team Smokey (especially with FLocke telling Ben to meet at the Hydra)... and nothing tonight discounted that theory. I really think Sawyer is being set up by both of them...

Smokey could have been trying to set up Ben though.

[jkrue22]

Smokey could have been trying to set up Ben though.

Very true, getting him to go to Hydra and duke it out with Widmore... but how did he know Widmore would be there?

[jkrue22]

I still think FLocke could be Aaron... there's a reason we don't know his name yet. Aaron was raised by another (An Other?) and now he's fully evil. This would also explain the "crazy mother" connection...

[javierm27]

What if Jacob and Fake Locke were one and the same? My mind is blown.

[twistedmind1586]

I still think FLocke could be Aaron... there's a reason we don't know his name yet. Aaron was raised by another (An Other?) and now he's fully evil. This would also explain the "crazy mother" connection...

I'm not too sure about that, there would be a lot of holes they would have to fill to make that seem logical (not that anything on the show is anymore though).

What happened with Claire and the hug with Kate? Did FLocke say something to make her calm down or did she legitimately snap out of her craze? In the end I think Claire will be very important to the whole storyline, and her return to sanity will be a big part of that.

Sayid on the other hand, he looks toast.

[CrashTheStone41]

When all is said and done the only answer we will get is who is Jacobs replacement... and that saddens me

[jkrue22]

a semi-spoiler/conjecture about the Island's identity:

E!'s Kristin Dos Santos has been teasing a four-letter word with one-vowel (an "o") that describes the Island. Some people have been guessing "womb" and "tomb," both of which I think could be feasible... apparently whatever it is, we'll learn the word next week

[water_into_wine]

a semi-spoiler/conjecture about the Island's identity:

E!'s Kristin Dos Santos has been teasing a four-letter word with one-vowel (an "o") that describes the Island. Some people have been guessing "womb" and "tomb," both of which I think could be feasible... apparently whatever it is, we'll learn the word next week

Lost :lol

[javierm27]

a semi-spoiler/conjecture about the Island's identity:

E!'s Kristin Dos Santos has been teasing a four-letter word with one-vowel (an "o") that describes the Island. Some people have been guessing "womb" and "tomb," both of which I think could be feasible... apparently whatever it is, we'll learn the word next week

Lost :lol

Yup, my vote is LOST!

[water_into_wine]

I'm not too sure about that, there would be a lot of holes they would have to fill to make that seem logical (not that anything on the show is anymore though).

What happened with Claire and the hug with Kate? Did FLocke say something to make her calm down or did she legitimately snap out of her craze? In the end I think Claire will be very important to the whole storyline, and her return to sanity will be a big part of that.

Sayid on the other hand, he looks toast.

Did you see that slap?

http://i44.tinypic.com/241pnx0.jpg

[jkrue22]

Yup, my vote is LOST!

This was my initial thought as well. :) But that's too easy right??

[twistedmind1586]

I'm thinking it's "port" or "dock"

[ant_marching41]

That slap was epic. Me and my friends rewound that shit.

[javierm27]

Did you see that slap?

http://i44.tinypic.com/241pnx0.jpg

Someone needs to add the Chappelle line to this.

What did the 5 fingers say to the face? Slap!

[ant_marching41]

Did you see that slap?

http://i44.tinypic.com/241pnx0.jpg
Well that didn't take long.

Thank you. :lol

[dh4645]

Did you see that slap?

http://i44.tinypic.com/241pnx0.jpg

haha
awesome

[Beebz]

I love me some Kate and Sawyer!

Never, ever, post that again.

I still think FLocke could be Aaron... there's a reason we don't know his name yet. Aaron was raised by another (An Other?) and now he's fully evil. This would also explain the "crazy mother" connection...

This makes absolutely no sense.

Episode defined stall and average. C, and I think I may downgrade when it comes to the official review.

[Beebz]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036EH3WK?ie=UTF8&tag=lostbooks-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0036EH3WK

[CaffeineQueen]

Yeah, I'm not sure I believe Flocke here. I think there's more than he's letting on.

I'm guessing it was just part of the ploy to get Sawyer to scope out the other island.

[dh4645]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036EH3WK?ie=UTF8&tag=lostbooks-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=B0036EH3WK

yeah, i have that in my cart saved for later. not sure if i'll be buying it or not. maybe i'll split it with a friend and share...or just rent them from netflix.

[pathetic]

i think LockeMonster knew exactly what was on the other island and he knew they wouldnt kill sawyer. imo he sent sawyer over there to test his loyalty

[RJP2741]

Recon

What I liked
- The Sawyer and Miles spinoff buddy cop show. It's coming.
- Flocke-slap. There also seemed to be more of the real John Locke infusing into Smokie, particuarly when he was talking to Kate. Much more vulnerable than we've seen Smokie thus far.

What I didn't like
- Another stalling setup episode this far into the season. Neither storyline was advanced at all. We already knew Widmore was going to be on the other island, and we knew that Sawyer was still trying to con his way off the island with Flocke.
- Kate and Sawyer both said "the smoke thing" to Flocke, but neither went on to ask him what it was.

What I'm not sure about / other thoughts
- All of the flash-sideways have ended up mirroring the situations on the island, I thought Sawyer's was interesting this week. On the island, he's stuck in Flocke's camp trying to find a way to con himself off the island. In LA he cannot escape his past with Anthony Cooper but he's able to open up about it and tell a friend what's been going on. He can't entirely escape his past, but he's starting to figure it out, just like Island Sawyer.
- Where is Desmond?
- I usually watch the previews for the following episode, but I'm so pumped up for next week's that I shut it off because I don't want to see a single scene of it until I see it in full. Hopefully it will give us some major answers that we've been waiting for and actually advance the plot.

[CaffeineQueen]

Never, ever, post that again.



This makes absolutely no sense.

Episode defined stall and average. C, and I think I may downgrade when it comes to the official review.

Sorry, I didn't know I wasn't allowed to have an opinion. :(