LOST (the tv show)

[dh4645]

I think that's a pretty solid theory.

Im not as excited as I was last night at 8:59. I really thought this episode would blow the lid off everything and give us a major dump of the answers we've been looking for. It didn't. I'll leave it at that.

i agree to both

[monkeyman420]

I think a lot of the mythological/philosophical questions are going to be left to the interpretation of the viewer. I think a lot of those things don't have one specific meaning and if something does need an answer it will be answered in the final 3 episodes.

I didn't have high hopes so I'm not as upset as some of you. But if people are this upset now, I fear for what is going to happen next Sunday.

[dh4645]

I remember years ago Darlton saying there are scientific explanations to everything. I am totally not ok with them saying "a higher power created the mother of jacob"...i was so hoping it would be "mystical science", with the time travel, the island having all this electomagnetic energy that it created a special person...i just don't want it to be God creates everything.


yeah i just said that to my friend via email.

and to me scientific means logical, but we should know that's not gonna happen.

did he actually say that though, or was it taken out of context or something else???

[dh4645]

Wait for it....

http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/2010/05/will-an-errant-satellite-f-up-the-lost-finale




hah, yeah i heard that this morning. i'm sure it'll be fine

[inmytree]

1. he has a name, apparently.

2. I dont need to know why he wanted to leave. That doesnt matter and its perfectly natural for a child to want to learn about the world around him. I want to know why he COULDNT leave, and why its so bad if he leaves now.

3. Its a legit criticism, IMO. If she was just being paranoid, the entire series boils down to some family baggage? Its not a pressing concern or anything, but it matters.

See, to me, that's a crock of shit. You cant just chalk everything up to "higher powers" or "mystical forces." Its the ultimate cop-out on a story like this. Some things, sure. But so much has been made about being chained to the island that it makes no sense that he can just leave and come back.

I think in regards to that specific question, we'll find out about, and I would guess next week. We're going to have to. The entire season has been set up thus far, seemingly to me, as a battle to try to stop Flocke from leaving the island. However, the lead characters that are left really have no idea about that. I think they heard from someone (maybe Richard) that this guy can't leave the island, but they don't know why or how they stop them. I can't see how they'd be able to have a conclusion of the series, or even have any momentum in the last few hours if the main characters don't learn what the consequences of him leaving would be.

As for "what the island is", I think we've gotten as much as we're going to get. It may be explained more concretely later, but I think the explanation that the island is meant to protect this "light" or whatever from the outside world (or, alternately, to keep the evil of the smoke monster in it), will be as far as we get with it. Personally, I think that conclusion is kind of hokey, but I think they may feel like they've adequately explained it's purpose.

[ant_marching41]

-Why wouldn't you let me leave Mother?
-Because I love you

Give me a fuckin break. This episode had several flaws, but above everything else, the writing was absolutely atrocious.

[Beefsteak1138]

Are you guys still babbling about last night's show?

[ant_marching41]

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

The "Fuckin magnets, how do they work?" picture is absolutely priceless. God damn I love the internet.
:lol:lol:lol http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/2010/05/will-an-errant-satellite-f-up-the-lost-finale/magnets

[sunshower]

I swear every other forum I've ever seen has the collection of some of the dumbest people on the planet. Like some people wanted to know before this season what the deal with Kate's toy plane was. I almost joined the site jsut to call them a complete retard but realized it wasn't worth the time.

Don't waste your time on the Facebook page if you think some of the forums are bad. Check out these recent gems:

"i think the sideways has something to do with everything"

"Jacob didn't actually bury the bodies of his brother & mother, right? He just laid them down in a cave. Well, what if MIB was not actually killed, but bitten by one of those coma-inducing spiders like we saw many seasons back?"

" In the last episode . the brother of jacob is dead. So who is in lock body ????"



:freak

Also, Beefy, you will like this: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg

[Beefsteak1138]

Don't waste your time on the Facebook page if you think some of the forums are bad. Check out these recent gems:

"i think the sideways has something to do with everything"

"Jacob didn't actually bury the bodies of his brother & mother, right? He just laid them down in a cave. Well, what if MIB was not actually killed, but bitten by one of those coma-inducing spiders like we saw many seasons back?"

" In the last episode . the brother of jacob is dead. So who is in lock body ????"



:freak

Also, Beefy, you will like this: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg

Blocked. I'll check it out tonight.

[dh4645]

Don't waste your time on the Facebook page if you think some of the forums are bad. Check out these recent gems:

"i think the sideways has something to do with everything"

"Jacob didn't actually bury the bodies of his brother & mother, right? He just laid them down in a cave. Well, what if MIB was not actually killed, but bitten by one of those coma-inducing spiders like we saw many seasons back?"

" In the last episode . the brother of jacob is dead. So who is in lock body ????"



:freak

Also, Beefy, you will like this: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg


hah, oh wow those people are retards (as pronounced in the hangover)

nice picture.

[dh4645]

back to the satellite thing:

Maybe that was their plan for how the series is going to end. A satellite wipes out tv for the evening and the screen goes black. Kinda like the Sopranos finale. ha

[javierm27]

Are you guys still babbling about last night's show?

Haha yup, I can't wait to see how this will all end, there will be plenty of sig worthy quotes with people whining.

[Beefsteak1138]

back to the satellite thing:

Maybe that was their plan for how the series is going to end. A satellite wipes out tv for the evening and the screen goes black. Kinda like the Sopranos finale. ha

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=10970459&postcount=21718

[Beefsteak1138]

Haha yup, I can't wait to see how this will all end, there will be plenty of sig worthy quotes with people whining.

Have fun over-analyzing everything and thus torturing yourselves. ;)

[dh4645]

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=10970459&postcount=21718

hah, nice

are you in a job where you control satellites?

you've been planning this for a month

how much did the producers pay you?

[Beefsteak1138]

hah, nice

are you in a job where you control satellites?

you've been planning this for a month

how much did the producers pay you?

I plead the 5th.

[javierm27]

Have fun over-analyzing everything and thus torturing yourselves. ;)

I agree people are way too upset over a show. I love this show, don't get me wrong I worked for ABC when this show started so I have been attached since then. But man to be this upset, wow. I am just waiting to see how it ends nothing more, nothing less. Life will go on.

[Beebz]

Don't waste your time on the Facebook page if you think some of the forums are bad. Check out these recent gems:

"i think the sideways has something to do with everything"

"Jacob didn't actually bury the bodies of his brother & mother, right? He just laid them down in a cave. Well, what if MIB was not actually killed, but bitten by one of those coma-inducing spiders like we saw many seasons back?"

" In the last episode . the brother of jacob is dead. So who is in lock body ????"



:freak

Also, Beefy, you will like this: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg

The fucking spider comment is priceless.

[dh4645]

I plead the 5th.

the 5th toe of the statue?

[Beefsteak1138]

the 5th toe of the statue?

Trap!

[dh4645]

Trap!

ha, i thought you'd spill the beans since you are obviously in cahoots with the producers.
:)

[water_into_wine]

Don't waste your time on the Facebook page if you think some of the forums are bad. Check out these recent gems:

"i think the sideways has something to do with everything"

"Jacob didn't actually bury the bodies of his brother & mother, right? He just laid them down in a cave. Well, what if MIB was not actually killed, but bitten by one of those coma-inducing spiders like we saw many seasons back?"

" In the last episode . the brother of jacob is dead. So who is in lock body ????"



:freak

Also, Beefy, you will like this: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg

That picture is golden :lol

[thebridge15]

Someone want to some up what their "mother" told them about the light again? That it creates all life? Something like that? Are the people in the present going to find it accidentally?

Jacob tried to make Ricardo drink from the wine, right? MiB broke it! So no one can take over as the leader...?

EDIT: MiB can't kill Jacob because MiB is already dead?

Did anyone else hear the "mother" call MiB "Michael?"

[javierm27]

A question, can the smoke monster only take over the bodies of the dead people?

[uro55]

A question, can the smoke monster only take over the bodies of the dead people?

And Haley Joel Osment, cause he can see dead people.

Maybe he's the MiB lol.

[javierm27]

And Haley Joel Osment, cause he can see dead people.

Maybe he's the MiB lol.

:lol

[DMBzilla]

While I agree that last night's episode was far from great, I certainly don't think it was the abomination that many on here are painting it as. Some thoughts I had...

- MiB is NOT Jacob's brother, but rather Smokey in Jacob's brother's body. When Jacob's brother floated into the light, some kind of force -- MiB -- was released that killed him and eventually manifested itself and escaped as Smokey. Jacob found his brother's body, and put it in the cave with the body of their "adoptive" mother to rot (as evidenced by the fact that the Losties found their "Adam and Eve"). However, as it did with Christian's and later Locke's body, MiB took on the form of Jacob's brother's dead body.

- I don't think the light in and of itself is important, but rather what the light was keeping captive. After seeing Smokey rush out of the cave after killing Jacob's brother, my initial impression is that the light was actually keeping Smokey inside, and that Jacob's brother entering the light freed whatever was inside. Of course, that also begs the question of what exactly Smokey is, but I think "pure evil" is probably a pretty close guess, considering that it's been stated numerous times that if it gets off the island the world will cease to be.

- Jacob's brother was not inherently evil. When Jacob comments to him as an adult that their mother says the other people on the island are bad, Jacob's brother immediately agrees, saying that they're greedy and manipulative, but that they're a means to an end (i.e. his getting off the island). The only thing Jacob's brother was guilty of was curiosity -- he knew there was more to the world than the island, and he wanted to see it. For whatever reason, their mother didn't want that to happen.

- Speaking of the twins' "adoptive" mother, I don't think it matters where she came from. She was there to protect the island, she probably replaced someone else, and now Jacob is replacing her. I don't really think we need more of an explanation than that -- someone has always been, and someone always will be, there to protect the island.

- Finally, and this is probably the biggest question this episode posed, at some point it seems that Jacob started believing the opposite of what his mother had told him, and MiB's views aligned with hers. As evidenced in my first point, the now infamous meeting between Jacob and MiB on the beach occurred after Jacob's brother had died and MiB assumed his body. As a child, and even into their adulthood, Jacob was always taught that other people were bad and that the island had to be protected from them. However, at that point Jacob somehow brought the Black Rock to the island in order to prove to MiB that he was right. The strange thing here is that during that meeting, MiB quoted Jacob's mother exactly from this past episode regarding people coming to the island -- "They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same." So, what happened that made Jacob believe other people could be good, while MiB now wants nothing to do with them?

[javierm27]

While I agree that last night's episode was far from great, I certainly don't think it was the abomination that many on here are painting it as. Some thoughts I had...

- MiB is NOT Jacob's brother, but rather Smokey in Jacob's brother's body. When Jacob's brother floated into the light, some kind of force -- MiB -- was released that killed him and eventually manifested itself and escaped as Smokey. Jacob found his brother's body, and put it in the cave with the body of their "adoptive" mother to rot (as evidenced by the fact that the Losties found their "Adam and Eve"). However, as it did with Christian's and later Locke's body, MiB took on the form of Jacob's brother's dead body.

- I don't think the light in and of itself is important, but rather what the light was keeping captive. After seeing Smokey rush out of the cave after killing Jacob's brother, my initial impression is that the light was actually keeping Smokey inside, and that Jacob's brother entering the light freed whatever was inside. Of course, that also begs the question of what exactly Smokey is, but I think "pure evil" is probably a pretty close guess, considering that it's been stated numerous times that if it gets off the island the world will cease to be.

- Jacob's brother was not inherently evil. When Jacob comments to him as an adult that their mother says the other people on the island are bad, Jacob's brother immediately agrees, saying that they're greedy and manipulative, but that they're a means to an end (i.e. his getting off the island). The only thing Jacob's brother was guilty of was curiosity -- he knew there was more to the world than the island, and he wanted to see it. For whatever reason, their mother didn't want that to happen.

- Speaking of the twins' "adoptive" mother, I don't think it matters where she came from. She was there to protect the island, she probably replaced someone else, and now Jacob is replacing her. I don't really think we need more of an explanation than that -- someone has always been, and someone always will be, there to protect the island.

- Finally, and this is probably the biggest question this episode posed, at some point it seems that Jacob started believing the opposite of what his mother had told him, and MiB's views aligned with hers. As evidenced in my first point, the now infamous meeting between Jacob and MiB on the beach occurred after Jacob's brother had died and MiB assumed his body. As a child, and even into their adulthood, Jacob was always taught that other people were bad and that the island had to be protected from them. However, at that point Jacob somehow brought the Black Rock to the island in order to prove to MiB that he was right. The strange thing here is that during that meeting, MiB quoted Jacob's mother exactly from this past episode regarding people coming to the island -- "They come, fight, they destroy, they corrupt. It always ends the same." So, what happened that made Jacob believe other people could be good, while MiB now wants nothing to do with them?

I agree with most of this, to the bolded do you think that the mother killed all of the people in that camp? Or was it the smoke monster? Or the smoke monster helping the mom? I thought at first maybe the mom was not the mom but instead the smoke monster pretending to be the mom, thats why I was wondering if the smoke monster is only able to take over the bodies of people that have died. Since at that point the mom was still alive.

[Beefsteak1138]

- MiB is NOT Jacob's brother, but rather Smokey in Jacob's brother's body. When Jacob's brother floated into the light, some kind of force -- MiB -- was released that killed him and eventually manifested itself and escaped as Smokey. Jacob found his brother's body, and put it in the cave with the body of their "adoptive" mother to rot (as evidenced by the fact that the Losties found their "Adam and Eve"). However, as it did with Christian's and later Locke's body, MiB took on the form of Jacob's brother's dead body.


Disagree, Smokey is the transformed version of MiB. Smokey is bound by the same rules that MiB/Jacob were (not leaving the island, can't kill each other). It wouldn't make sense to me that some random island force that was released due to his MiB's body being thrown into the cave to be bound by those same rules.

[DMBzilla]

I agree with most of this, to the bolded do you think that the mother killed all of the people in that camp? Or was it the smoke monster? Or the smoke monster helping the mom? I thought at first maybe the mom was not the mom but instead the smoke monster pretending to be the mom, thats why I was wondering if the smoke monster is only able to take over the bodies of people that have died. Since at that point the mom was still alive.

When I watched the episode, the first thing I said when Jacob's brother returned to the camp to find it destroyed was, "She's the smoke monster." But then the rest of the episode did nothing to back up that notion. Clearly the mother was responsible for what happened at the camp, but I have no idea how she did it. Perhaps everyone was inside their huts and she simply set them all aflame? I think this may just go down as another "just accept it" moment of Lost and that all we need to know is that they're dead and she did it.

Disagree, Smokey is the transformed version of MiB. Smokey is bound by the same rules that MiB/Jacob were (not leaving the island, can't kill each other). It wouldn't make sense to me that some random island force that was released due to his MiB's body being thrown into the cave to be bound by those same rules.

But what if it's not some random island force? What if it's still bound by certain rules, but was being held in an additional state of confinement up until that point?

Assuming that the mother knew what MiB was capable of (i.e. persuasion, deception, manipulation, the idea of "don't let him talk to you because if you do you're his"), it would make sense that she'd never want anyone to have contact with him, because she knows they'd fall for his tricks and try to help him. I guess to me that idea is no more far fetched than the notion that Jacob's brother would enter the light, turn into Smokey, his original body would be useless and dead, and that he could still transform into his own previous form, and that of any other dead body on the island.

[Beefsteak1138]

Assuming that the mother knew what MiB was capable of (i.e. persuasion, deception, manipulation, the idea of "don't let him talk to you because if you do you're his"), it would make sense that she'd never want anyone to have contact with him, because she knows they'd fall for his tricks and try to help him. I guess to me that idea is no more far fetched than the notion that Jacob's brother would enter the light, turn into Smokey, his original body would be useless and dead, and that he could still transform into his own previous form, and that of any other dead body on the island.

The mother said anyone who went in there would suffer a fate worse than death. Turning into a smoke monster for all eternity qualifies, IMO. My theory just makes more sense to me in the context of Lost.

[DMBzilla]

An interesting commentary on all of this from DarkUFO:

Here's my take on what happened: entering the spring caused the light inside MIB (there's some in every person, according to Mother) to go out. When the light goes out inside a person, that person turns into a disembodied cloud of smoke, thus the Smoke Monster. If the monster escapes to the outside world, everyone's light will go out, and all people will turn into Smoke Monsters. This is why stopping MIB is so important now.

This would also shed some light on why Desmond is so important. It should be pretty obvious that the glowing light and the pockets of electromagnetic energy are one in the same. Desmond may be the only person who can enter the spring of light without becoming a Smoke Monster.

For the record, its not entirely clear that the Smoke Monster really is the Man in Black. It could be a separate entity that has just taken on his appearance, like it later would for Christian, Yemi, Locke, etc. Not only does it steal these people's forms, but their personalities as well. I don't really believe this theory, though, since then we would need a separate explanation for the Smoke Monster's origins beyond what we just saw, and there isn't enough of Lost left for that.

[javierm27]

Ok so what if the mom that visited mib in that well and knocked him out, was smokey. That would mean that smokey manipulated mib to get him to kill his "adopted" mom, in the same manner that smokey got Ben to kill Jacob. With the same knife and without allowing them to speak.

[Beebz]

When I watched the episode, the first thing I said when Jacob's brother returned to the camp to find it destroyed was, "She's the smoke monster." But then the rest of the episode did nothing to back up that notion. Clearly the mother was responsible for what happened at the camp, but I have no idea how she did it. Perhaps everyone was inside their huts and she simply set them all aflame? I think this may just go down as another "just accept it" moment of Lost and that all we need to know is that they're dead and she did it.

But what if it's not some random island force? What if it's still bound by certain rules, but was being held in an additional state of confinement up until that point?

Assuming that the mother knew what MiB was capable of (i.e. persuasion, deception, manipulation, the idea of "don't let him talk to you because if you do you're his"), it would make sense that she'd never want anyone to have contact with him, because she knows they'd fall for his tricks and try to help him. I guess to me that idea is no more far fetched than the notion that Jacob's brother would enter the light, turn into Smokey, his original body would be useless and dead, and that he could still transform into his own previous form, and that of any other dead body on the island.

That's a crock of shit, IMO. One woman could roll into a 30-person hunter camp and just lay waste to the entire thing? Bull. Shit. That's one of the 1,000 things that needs a bit more clarification.

Ok so what if the mom that visited mib in that well and knocked him out, was smokey. That would mean that smokey manipulated mib to get him to kill his "adopted" mom, in the same manner that smokey got Ben to kill Jacob. With the same knife and without allowing them to speak.

I think we need to assume that sending MiB's body into that cave is what created Smokey. There's nothing to support any other idea.

[javierm27]

That's a crock of shit, IMO. One woman could roll into a 30-person hunter camp and just lay waste to the entire thing? Bull. Shit. That's one of the 1,000 things that needs a bit more clarification.



I think we need to assume that sending MiB's body into that cave is what created Smokey. There's nothing to support any other idea.

My only issue with this is believing that "adopted" mom was able to take out a whole village and plug that well. Plus the coincidence that both the light keepers (adopted mom and Jacob)were killed in the same manner, manipulation and with the same knife.

[jkrue22]

That's a crock of shit, IMO. One woman could roll into a 30-person hunter camp and just lay waste to the entire thing? Bull. Shit. That's one of the 1,000 things that needs a bit more clarification.



I think we need to assume that sending MiB's body into that cave is what created Smokey. There's nothing to support any other idea.

Or perhaps Smokey was trapped (I was looking for ash but didn't see any) and needed a sacrifice to be released from the cave?

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

The only really interesting thing I found interesting, was much like Danielle and Claire, Caludia's baby was taking from her at birth pretty much.

[Beebz]

My only issue with this is believing that "adopted" mom was able to take out a whole village and plug that well. Plus the coincidence that both the light keepers (adopted mom and Jacob)were killed in the same manner, manipulation and with the same knife.

Yeah, I dont know how that was done, either. But there wasnt a single given that anything other than MiB's sailing into that cave released Smokey. If it in fact turns out to be that Smokey was not triggered by this act, its another huge fail on the writers part by not showing us key scenes.

We would have needed to see something destroy that villiage, and Jacob meet the smoke monster for the first time. We should have seen that second scene anyway. A high school writer would have known to include that, which makes me think that there is a little more in store as far as flashbacks.

[javierm27]

Or perhaps Smokey was trapped (I was looking for ash but didn't see any) and needed a sacrifice to be released from the cave?

I think I am overlooking the twin factor. Ok so I think maybe the fact that mib is Jacobs twin is what spawned smokey. Jacob is the light keeper now, and his twin being thrown down that well, which is the twin of the light keeper spawned smokey? Fuck I am going nuts and I said I wouldn't do this, I am a hypocrite. I am not pissed though, haha.

[Beebz]

Ken Tucker was not a fan:

http://watching-tv.ew.com/2010/05/12/lost-across-the-sea-review/

[twistedmind1586]

i had more fun watching this than the actual episode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q

[dh4645]

i had more fun watching this than the actual episode

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q

yeah someone posted that earlier. funny

[JacobLovesYou]

just watched it, wow amazed.

cj craig said that when you go into the spring its worse then. so i think when MiB was thrown in by jacob, his body died but his soul lived on in complete darkness, embodied by the smoke monster. and i think smokey can take on different avatars, but always chose MiB's body when talking to jacob. and since we know he can't change out of locke's appearance now, it must be because, by whatever process, smokey stopped being just a soul and reattained a body... the final loophole to being able to leave the island.

BIG questions are:

what force is behind the apparition of MiB's mother? was it the smoke monster already, and the act of tossing in MiB merely released it in it's true form?

what force was behind appointing cj craig as the first keeper of the light in the spring?

[dh4645]

: http://hphotos-sjc1.fbcdn.net/hs609.snc3/32077_798405926043_8223690_43802356_6426326_n.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gnomes_plan.png

[Beebz]

just watched it, wow amazed.

cj craig said that when you go into the spring its worse then. so i think when MiB was thrown in by jacob, his body died but his soul lived on in complete darkness, embodied by the smoke monster. and i think smokey can take on different avatars, but always chose MiB's body when talking to jacob. and since we know he can't change out of locke's appearance now, it must be because, by whatever process, smokey stopped being just a soul and reattained a body... the final loophole to being able to leave the island.

BIG questions are:

what force is behind the apparition of MiB's mother? was it the smoke monster already, and the act of tossing in MiB merely released it in it's true form?

what force was behind appointing cj craig as the first keeper of the light in the spring?

I liked the bolded.

Disagree with the second part, though, since he really doesnt have a body. Bullets pass through him and he can still turn back into the smoke monster.

We need an explanation of the rules like, yesterday.

[JacobLovesYou]

and i'm going back and rereading some of the last few pages. you guys need to calm down, last night was fine. i don't know what you guys expected.

[JacobLovesYou]

i think large portions of the rules are going to be explained (by widmore if i had to guess) but that some parts are going to be left up to the imagination/to inference.

i do really like the idea that since the light is the pockets of energy/electromagnetism, that desmond is "special" from turning the failsafe key and can enter the well without consequence. or maybe him entering the well would be what unites the timelines.

[Beebz]

and i'm going back and rereading some of the last few pages. you guys need to calm down, last night was fine. i don't know what you guys expected.

A better, more answer-driven episode. What did you expect, actually?

[water_into_wine]

BIG questions are:

what force is behind the apparition of MiB's mother? was it the smoke monster already, and the act of tossing in MiB merely released it in it's true form?

what force was behind appointing cj craig as the first keeper of the light in the spring?

1.) She was either simply a ghost like others we have seen before or trapped like the Whispers. But she seemed pretty innocent so I doubt you will get an answer other than that she simply was his mother's spirit.

2.) The previous protector of the island. You can't just assume that she was the first.


Some good Garden of Eden parallels last night the more I think about it. Smokey succumbed to the temptation of going to "his" people and then could never find Eden, the light, again.

[Beebz]

1.) She was either simply a ghost like others we have seen before or trapped like the Whispers. But she seemed pretty innocent so I doubt you will get an answer other than that she simply was his mother's spirit.

2.) The previous protector of the island. You can't just assume that she was the first.


Some good Garden of Eden parallels last night the more I think about it. Smokey succumbed to the temptation of going to "his" people and then could never find Eden, the light, again.

That's a good point--it doesn't make much sense that he can see the ghosts, only that "he's special." Which I guess covers the seeing of ghosts, knowing how to play the game, etc. Its not like his mom would be trapped there because of something bad she did.

[JacobLovesYou]

so, tony, do you think they'll never actually come out and say it, but that the island is like the garden of eden?



and i expected just about what happened. i figured it would be just like the richard episode and would tell a linear story that would answer questions but that it wouldn't just be a answer driven greatest hits episode where they answer a ton of stuff. we got to see the light spring, the creation of smokey, and the creation of jacob as the good guy. that's good enough for me. all i want out of the next 3 and a half hours is closure for the main characters and enough of a bookend with enough answer involved to form my own conclusion on things if i have to.

[dh4645]

so did douche jensen post his write-up yet?

[dh4645]

That's a good point--it doesn't make much sense that he can see the ghosts, only that "he's special." Which I guess covers the seeing of ghosts, knowing how to play the game, etc. Its not like his mom would be trapped there because of something bad she did.

so hurley's the new MiB?

[water_into_wine]

so, tony, do you think they'll never actually come out and say it, but that the island is like the garden of eden?



Hell no they won't.

[water_into_wine]

so hurley's the new MiB?

Uhhh, no.

I think many people are special. Hurley, Desmond, Miles, Walt, etc.

[JacobLovesYou]

also, i think we aren't ever going to learn MiB's name. i think L&C realize that people have built it up to something big and if it isn't, they'd rather leave it at nothing. unless it actually is something really big and is going to be a big reveal in the next 2 episodes.

[Beebz]

so did douche jensen post his write-up yet?

nope. I gota say Im curious to read this one.

[dh4645]

Uhhh, no.

I think many people are special. Hurley, Desmond, Miles, Walt, etc.

i know
i was just being weird


maybe i'm "special" hah

that's what my mom tells me anyway.

[JacobLovesYou]

Hell no they won't.

i know they won't say it, but i'm saying do YOU think that's what the creators are nudging at us?

[water_into_wine]

i know they won't say it, but i'm saying do YOU think that's what the creators are nudging at us?

No. I think they like to allude to many different things. They have been doing that the entire series. I never think it will lead to a definition of what the island is, but it adds an extra layer to what we are watching and makes it open to interpretation.

[monkeyman68]

This thread brings out the serious lolz

Maybe people will now realize they need to take the collective cock of Damon and Carlton out of their mouths because the dudes aren't all that great.

:thumbsup

Darlton didnt think that fucking scene was important? Hey, I just killed my brother, shoved him in some light cave, watched a giant plume of smoke get released, and then went about my day. Huh? How could the writers rob us of that scene where Jacob sees his brother again for the first time? Why would they not give us a montage of Jacob finding candidates through the centuries, observing their behavior, and watching Smokey tear them apart? Why not spell out the rules?

Hmmm…how should I respond to this? I got it: “You like things spelled out for you, don't you? Big fan of movies with narration?” lolz

- The vague, ambiguous, double-talk. Yes LOST has always done this, but my problem here is that the writers made a decision to remind us about all of these questions we had regarding Jacob, MiB, their origins, the origin of the island, the rules, etc and they still failed to answer them. Without this episode, I would have accepted the fact that we would never know all of the rules, or how Jacob came to be Island guardian. But by bringing it up this late in the game, it's kind of a slap in the face to the audience.

The little man in black made up the rules to his game and Jacob was left guessing what was allowed and what wasn’t. He then tells little Jacob that one day he can make up his own game and his own rules. Jacob obviously does that and we the viewers are left wondering what the rules are. Since the game is not played on our terms, we will never know….

That is at least one way the writers can get around trying to look at the rules in depth

[RJP2741]

I know Brian will like this, not sure who else reads Alan Sepinwall's reviews.

sepinwall

Just finished long interview w/ @damonlindelof & @carltoncuse about last night's Lost and final season as a whole. Posting in 1-2 hours.

[hbktonyb]

I know Brian will like this, not sure who else reads Alan Sepinwall's reviews.

Post it here when you got it.

[dh4645]

Post it here when you got it.

yes please.
as long as it's not retarded

[javierm27]

I am going to the LOST Live: A Final Celebration tomorrow out in UCLA. I will let you guys know if I hear anything, I am contemplating taking a notebook to write shit down, haha.

[junior94]

I am going to the LOST Live: A Final Celebration tomorrow out in UCLA. I will let you guys know if I hear anything, I am contemplating taking a notebook to write shit down, haha.

Let us know if Damon and Carlton walk out onto the stage wearing helmets and pads :evil

[hbktonyb]

I didn't like Vozz's recap this week.

[41ravens]

so i don't even think it's the onslaught of more questions that's bugging me, so much as just the whole "light in the cave" thing. i know this is a sci fi show, and i'm only assuming this gets explained a little more, but when they first showed it and mother was explaining things to the boys, i was just kinda like, "really? that's what all this is about? a light in a cave?" it just left me wanting a little more.

[javierm27]

Let us know if Damon and Carlton walk out onto the stage wearing helmets and pads :evil

Haha, I bet they don't even show up. I am just really looking forward to hearing the music, I love Michael Giacchino. There are going to be some actors there as well.

This is a description of the event:
Oscar® winning composer Michael Giacchino will conduct a live orchestral performance, featuring the iconic music of “Lost,” at UCLA’s Royce Hall on Thursday, May 13, to celebrate the upcoming series finale. The concert will also feature appearances by LOST cast members, including Nestor Carbonell, Michael Emerson, and Jorge Garcia. In addition, a special preview of the penultimate episode will be screened immediately after the concert.

[JacobLovesYou]

2 observations:

obviously MiB didn't install the donkey wheel before he was knocked out by his "mother" so who did? did she install it? did someone else dig the well back up and install it later?

and

i think jacob went and saw the candidates after he died. pierre chang said the electromagnetism could be used to travel through time (and we've seen that at work). after last night's episode i find it unlikely that jacob left the island to go see them (or had an apparition of him go see them or whatever). i think it had something to do with when he died and his body just disappeared. cj craig's body didn't just turn to ash. i think he disappeared into time and went back and set all of the things in motion that would lead to their being candidates and the eventuality of his death.

[JacobLovesYou]

i'll elaborate: we know from the lighthouse that jacob has been watching the candidates all of their lives. i think he couldn't leave the island until he died and once ben stabbed him he got his opportunity to go back in time and meet with the candidates at moments he knew were the best times in order to set up the correct future chain of events.

[water_into_wine]

2 observations:

obviously MiB didn't install the donkey wheel before he was knocked out by his "mother" so who did? did she install it? did someone else dig the well back up and install it later?

and

i think jacob went and saw the candidates after he died. pierre chang said the electromagnetism could be used to travel through time (and we've seen that at work). after last night's episode i find it unlikely that jacob left the island to go see them (or had an apparition of him go see them or whatever). i think it had something to do with when he died and his body just disappeared. cj craig's body didn't just turn to ash. i think he disappeared into time and went back and set all of the things in motion that would lead to their being candidates and the eventuality of his death.

1.) There was more than a thousand years between the well getting filled up and our Losties. Smokey had plenty of time to either have more people dig it up, or do it himself. The main point of showing that was to show the original purpose was for him to get off the island.

2.) Strongly disagree.

[Beebz]

2 observations:

obviously MiB didn't install the donkey wheel before he was knocked out by his "mother" so who did? did she install it? did someone else dig the well back up and install it later?

and

i think jacob went and saw the candidates after he died. pierre chang said the electromagnetism could be used to travel through time (and we've seen that at work). after last night's episode i find it unlikely that jacob left the island to go see them (or had an apparition of him go see them or whatever). i think it had something to do with when he died and his body just disappeared. cj craig's body didn't just turn to ash. i think he disappeared into time and went back and set all of the things in motion that would lead to their being candidates and the eventuality of his death.

He died long after he met with the candidates.

[clcfball11]

Just re-watched the episode and liked it better the second time around.

Still hard to believe they'll be able to wrap everything up in the next few hours of material though.

I will say that it isn't worth losing sleep over. If you're unsatisfied with the finale, that's fair. But at the end of the day, last night was only one episode. One very important episode that could've been a hell of a lot better, but just one episode that could very easily BECOME better based on things that may be revealed in the next two weeks. Let's just wait and see.

Now if the finale sucks, then count me in for the riot!

[hbktonyb]

Just re-watched the episode and liked it better the second time around.

Still hard to believe they'll be able to wrap everything up in the next few hours of material though.

I will say that it isn't worth losing sleep over. If you're unsatisfied with the finale, that's fair. But at the end of the day, last night was only one episode. One very important episode that could've been a hell of a lot better, but just one episode that could very easily BECOME better based on things that may be revealed in the next two weeks. Let's just wait and see.

Now if the finale sucks, then count me in for the riot!

As long as they answer the main questions - what is the island, what are the powers, what is the light, etc...I guess I'll be somewhat satisfied.

[DMBand520]

I didn't hate this episode as most you seem to. One thing I started thinking about with everyone posing questions or giving lists of questions they insist HAVE to be answered for them to be satisfied, is:

What do you think will realistically be answered in the last 3.5 hours of the show?

I'm assuming we are going to get more than just 1 or 2 little answers in the finale. The only things I'm confident about are:

1. What's going on with the FS
2. Who will be the final candidate and will they actually replace Jacob or not

I'm guessing we are going to get a lot of other answers. Just not sure what they will be.

Oh and why do people care so much about Walt and knowing why he was special? He hasn't really been relevant since season 2. Get over it.

[41ravens]

doc's up.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20368574,00.html

[JacobLovesYou]

He died long after he met with the candidates.

hence why i said time travel.

after last night's episode, i can't see any scenario where jacob just leaves the island while he's still alive. i think that's why when bad-locke kicked him into the fire in the statue's foot he just disappeared. he'd been watching in the lighthouse and finding the right time to visit each candidate and then when he was finally released from his life by ben he went back to make sure that he touched each one of them so the events would play out correctly and they'd all be there on the island when he died.

[Beebz]

Vozzeks recap was pretty good. He makes a convincing case that Mother was the smoke monster, although if that's the case then how did she get stabbed to death and what flew out of the cave when MiB got sucked into it. In short, his theory makes sense if you ignore some key info. Which is why the writers should have made it clear.

[water_into_wine]

doc's up.

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20368574,00.html

Only 11 pages?

WTF? Totally killed me on my Over/Under last night :lol

[javierm27]

Vozzeks recap was pretty good. He makes a convincing case that Mother was the smoke monster, although if that's the case then how did she get stabbed to death and what flew out of the cave when MiB got sucked into it. In short, his theory makes sense if you ignore some key info. Which is why the writers should have made it clear.

Maybe the change occurred when she gave Jacob that wine?

[Beebz]

hence why i said time travel.

after last night's episode, i can't see any scenario where jacob just leaves the island while he's still alive. i think that's why when bad-locke kicked him into the fire in the statue's foot he just disappeared. he'd been watching in the lighthouse and finding the right time to visit each candidate and then when he was finally released from his life by ben he went back to make sure that he touched each one of them so the events would play out correctly and they'd all be there on the island when he died.

Nah. Time travel is the cop out glue people use to make their crazy theories make sense. Yours isn't insane it just sounds a little far fetched.

[breckbrew]

i'll elaborate: we know from the lighthouse that jacob has been watching the candidates all of their lives. i think he couldn't leave the island until he died and once ben stabbed him he got his opportunity to go back in time and meet with the candidates at moments he knew were the best times in order to set up the correct future chain of events.

But he died after they were already on the island.

[JacobLovesYou]

Vozzeks recap was pretty good. He makes a convincing case that Mother was the smoke monster, although if that's the case then how did she get stabbed to death and what flew out of the cave when MiB got sucked into it. In short, his theory makes sense if you ignore some key info. Which is why the writers should have made it clear.

Maybe the change occurred when she gave Jacob that wine?

yeah, she wasn't special anymore post-wine. and no matter what, MiB killed her of his own free will and that seems to always be important.

i'm starting to think that maybe "mother" was the very first protector and was both good and evil and the act of the wine left her good side to jacob and the act of MiB going into the spring recreated the smoke monster in his image/soul/whatever.

[JacobLovesYou]

But he died after they were already on the island.

exactly. and once he died, his spirit or avatar could finally leave the island and go back in time to touch the candidates and make sure everything played out to where they would eventually board the plane and crash onto the island in the first place so they would be there when he died.

[water_into_wine]

TVGuide.com: Why can Jacob leave the island, as he's done to visit his candidates, but the Man in Black cannot?
Pellegrino: This is a question that I've wondered about myself actually. I don't think the answer is directly provided in any episode, but it could be the fact that I'm a guardian of sorts and therefore have a certain power to exit when I want to. He can leave as long as it's directly for a certain purpose. After I threw the Man in Black in the pit, he's chained there. He's become incorporeal, and he's in something worse than hell.


So I doubt we get an answer.

[JacobLovesYou]

i do know that in 3 weeks my username will be out of style :(

[dmblova4eva37]

this might have been answered but how come when the smoke monster took over jacks dad his body was missing from the coffin when jack later found it. But when smokey took over locke his body was there?

[Talula62]

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=10970459&postcount=21718I hope it ends with them entering the cave of electromagnetic-y light to find Arvin Sloane trapped there, playing a neverending game of backgammon with Milo Rambaldi.

[thebridge15]

I am fully convinced that the last scene will be Jack and Locke saying the exact same things that Jacob and MiB did in the S5 premiere.

[RJP2741]

Sepinwall interview with Darlton. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

[javierm27]

yeah, she wasn't special anymore post-wine. and no matter what, MiB killed her of his own free will and that seems to always be important.

i'm starting to think that maybe "mother" was the very first protector and was both good and evil and the act of the wine left her good side to jacob and the act of MiB going into the spring recreated the smoke monster in his image/soul/whatever.

I like this.

[DerekJTR2]

That episode was good. But NOT for a show with only a couple episodes left. This show pisses me off more and more every episode. I've been "seeing it through to the end" for like 3 seasons now and I can really say that LOST is just bad TV.

Questions answered by more questions. These guys are PRICKS.

[JacobLovesYou]

LOST is the opposite of bad tv.

according to jim is bad tv. laguna beach is bad tv. the ghost whisperer is bad tv.

it's certainly frustrating tv, though.

[JacobLovesYou]

the more i think about it, the more i think Mother is the first "protector." that's why she's so desperate to pass on her duty that she killed Claudia to raise the babies as her own. she was obviously looking forward to death. i think she was the first smoke monster and that's how she killed the fuck out of that little village. i think she contained the power of good and evil and knew she had to use to both to protect the "light." her goal was to make MiB like her because he had that same capacity for good and evil, but once shit hit the fan the roles got split and instead of the evil side helping with protecting the light, its now hellbent on getting off the island.

[MOWJO8185]

Sepinwall interview with Darlton. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

I feel slightly better after reading this interview. They do say things to the effect of "it's our show" a lot, but also say things will make more sense as far as "where did the light go," "is that why MIB can't leave the island now, etc."

[41ravens]

Sepinwall interview with Darlton. http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/whats-alan-watching/posts/exclusive-interview-lost-producers-damon-lindelof-and-carlton-cuse-talk-across-the-sea

maybe it's just me, but they come off as some cocky mofo's in almost every interview i read. they get so defensive about any criticisms and fall back on the "it's our story, we'll do it how we want". which is fine, i guess, but don't be such assholes about not answering questions that everybody thought they were going to get answers to. and shit like this...

When we wrote that scene and somebody started shooting at them, we knew exactly who was shooting at them. That is not a dangling thread that we don't know the answer to. That being said, as we started talking about paying that off this season, it felt like the episode was at the service of closing the time loop, as opposed to what the characters might actually be doing in that scenario. It never felt organic. We decided we would rather take our lumps from the people who couldn't scratch that itch than to produce an episode that was in service of putting people in an outrigger and getting shot at.

drives me nuts. i guess i'm just in the boat of don't ask a question/show something unless you fully intend on coming full circle on it.

[water_into_wine]

Locke sees the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb9emoQD-SM

Locke describes the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n09NIZCeYGA

Eko and Locke say what they saw (Beginning of the clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0aKSKsvH3g


I'm thinking Smokey showed Locke the light in those little flashes he does. Either that or there is something that we have not seen yet. But the description both times is quite clear. Locke clearly saw something different than the Smokey and/or Smokey showed him the light.

That also explains why Loacke was so scared when Smokey came when they were coming back from the Black Rock in Season 1.

[water_into_wine]

That episode was good. But NOT for a show with only a couple episodes left. This show pisses me off more and more every episode. I've been "seeing it through to the end" for like 3 seasons now and I can really say that LOST is just bad TV.

Questions answered by more questions. These guys are PRICKS.

This post is filled with stupid.

[41ravens]

maybe it's just me, but they come off as some cocky mofo's in almost every interview i read. they get so defensive about any criticisms and fall back on the "it's our story, we'll do it how we want". which is fine, i guess, but don't be such assholes about not answering questions that everybody thought they were going to get answers to. and shit like this...



drives me nuts. i guess i'm just in the boat of don't ask a question/show something unless you fully intend on coming full circle on it.

because it was too late to edit:

i guess i should clarify. i am not one of those people who want an answer to ever single mystery they've ever introduced. i agree with them that this story is more about the characters, and closing their story is more important than going through a laundry list of of all of the mysteries. but some of these mysteries/scenes were built up to be huge things when they were first introduced and to ignore them just because "it doesn't fit the story anymore" seems cheap. it's kinda like, then why did it fit the story then?

[DerekJTR2]

because it was too late to edit:

i guess i should clarify. i am not one of those people who want an answer to ever single mystery they've ever introduced. i agree with them that this story is more about the characters, and closing their story is more important than going through a laundry list of of all of the mysteries. but some of these mysteries/scenes were built up to be huge things when they were first introduced and to ignore them just because "it doesn't fit the story anymore" seems cheap. it's kinda like, then why did it fit the story then?

This :thumbsup

[water_into_wine]

Locke sees the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb9emoQD-SM

Locke describes the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n09NIZCeYGA

Eko and Locke say what they saw (Beginning of the clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0aKSKsvH3g


I'm thinking Smokey showed Locke the light in those little flashes he does. Either that or there is something that we have not seen yet. But the description both times is quite clear. Locke clearly saw something different than the Smokey and/or Smokey showed him the light.

That also explains why Loacke was so scared when Smokey came when they were coming back from the Black Rock in Season 1.

From the Sepinwall interview:

A couple of my readers pointed out that when Jacob sends the Man in Black down the log flume and he turns into the Smoke Monster, the light in the cave goes out. And they've wondered if that means that Smokey now is the light that Jacob is supposed to protect and that's why he can't leave the island.

I really like that theory and fits with those videos I posted.

Goddamn this text. Won't unbold.

[JacobLovesYou]

so they said they aren't going to answer the outrigger thing? that's lame as hell.

[thebridge15]

the more i think about it, the more i think Mother is the first "protector." that's why she's so desperate to pass on her duty that she killed Claudia to raise the babies as her own. she was obviously looking forward to death. i think she was the first smoke monster and that's how she killed the fuck out of that little village. i think she contained the power of good and evil and knew she had to use to both to protect the "light." her goal was to make MiB like her because he had that same capacity for good and evil, but once shit hit the fan the roles got split and instead of the evil side helping with protecting the light, its now hellbent on getting off the island.First bold, no offense but duh. Jacob was pretty hurried about passing on his duty to Richard, then to anyone else, but they all kept dying.

Second bold, I like it. Because from the beginning, Aaron wasn't entirely bad. He just could be if he wanted to.

[twistedmind1586]

I am fully convinced that the last scene will be Jack and Locke saying the exact same things that Jacob and MiB did in the S5 premiere.

The only problem I have with that is that it doesn't qualify as an "end", that would qualify as progress.

"It can only end once, everything else before that is just progress."

If they just create a loop where Jack replaces Jacob and starts the cycle over, that's not an end. Plus it would be hard to have that relate to sideways-world.

[JacobLovesYou]

First bold, no offense but duh. Jacob was pretty hurried about passing on his duty to Richard, then to anyone else, but they all kept dying.

Second bold, I like it. Because from the beginning, Aaron wasn't entirely bad. He just could be if he wanted to.

there is no "duh" about her being the first protector. in fact, it can be equally reasoned that there is no chance she is the first protector because who told her what she had to do? who made her ageless until she passed on her powers? if the island has been there since the beginning of man that means she'd been there for tens of thousands of years. so no, it isn't a "duh." it easily could be a looooong line of succession. i just think she was the original.

[thebridge15]

there is no "duh" about her being the first protector. in fact, it can be equally reasoned that there is no chance she is the first protector because who told her what she had to do? who made her ageless until she passed on her powers? if the island has been there since the beginning of man that means she'd been there for tens of thousands of years. so no, it isn't a "duh." it easily could be a looooong line of succession. i just think she was the original.Ohhhh. I apologize. I read your post as saying she was simply a protector, which, I'm sure you'll agree, is very obvious.

I agree with Jacob in that she fucked up with how she handled Aaron. He would have been a better protector. The irony is, the Smoke Monster ended up being a great protector in itself.

[junior94]

Maybe the change occurred when she gave Jacob that wine?

yeah, she wasn't special anymore post-wine. and no matter what, MiB killed her of his own free will and that seems to always be important.

i'm starting to think that maybe "mother" was the very first protector and was both good and evil and the act of the wine left her good side to jacob and the act of MiB going into the spring recreated the smoke monster in his image/soul/whatever.

It seemed fairly clear to me, pretty much as it happened, that Mother was "special" in that she wasn't immortal, rather ageless. Just like the elves in LOTR, she could be killed in battle, but wouldn't naturally age, ever. She gave Jacob the wine to drink, and by drinking it he became the same way. I'm presuming she'd wanted to die for a very long time, but like we were told with Richard awhile back, the caveat of this gift was she couldn't kill herself. She was stabbed, then died, exactly what would happen to Jacob hundreds (if not thousands) of years later.

[twistedmind1586]

great recap by vozzek

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html

makes me appreciate the episode a little more, there are lots of assumptions about stuff they didn't show, but i think that's what the writers want people to be doing.

i think i've accepted that the episode was more about clarifying lots of little issues than providing massive answers. it wasn't at all what i wanted, but it was still decent. the placement of the episode was definitely the biggest issue.

[JacobLovesYou]

lostpedia.com makes reference to the fact that since the episode starts in latin and then seamlessly transitions into english that it's probably meant to be artistic license and that we're supposed to just assume that the rest of the episode's dialog was spoken in latin as well. lostpedia says that this technique was used the in the season 1 episode "solitary" as well. i haven't watched that episode in probably 3 years, but i'm assuming the iraqi flashbacks start in arabic and transition into english?

[thebridge15]

lostpedia.com makes reference to the fact that since the episode starts in latin and then seamlessly transitions into english that it's probably meant to be artistic license and that we're supposed to just assume that the rest of the episode's dialog was spoken in latin as well. lostpedia says that this technique was used the in the season 1 episode "solitary" as well. i haven't watched that episode in probably 3 years, but i'm assuming the iraqi flashbacks start in arabic and transition into english?I'd agree to that. Who knows, maybe it was old enough that English didn't even exist yet?

[hbktonyb]

great recap by vozzek

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html

makes me appreciate the episode a little more, there are lots of assumptions about stuff they didn't show, but i think that's what the writers want people to be doing.

i think i've accepted that the episode was more about clarifying lots of little issues than providing massive answers. it wasn't at all what i wanted, but it was still decent. the placement of the episode was definitely the biggest issue.

I wasn't into Vozz's review this week, I usually love them.

[JacobLovesYou]

lostpedia has it listed as "classical roman times" and i believe i read (i think in this thread even) that the call sheet for the episode said something like 72 AD.

i was hoping we would get a little bit of an aside last night about the statue. a mention of a timeline about when it was built and how long. like maybe MiB and jacob wandered too far into the jungle and saw it in the distance and that replaced the boar scene or something. and then cj craig explained it a little.

[thebridge15]

lostpedia has it listed as "classical roman times" and i believe i read (i think in this thread even) that the call sheet for the episode said something like 72 AD.

i was hoping we would get a little bit of an aside last night about the statue. a mention of a timeline about when it was built and how long. like maybe MiB and jacob wandered too far into the jungle and saw it in the distance and that replaced the boar scene or something. and then cj craig explained it a little.I thought it was promised that they would explain who built the statue. Is that who that was supposed to be?

[junior94]

And hey there's your answer in that interview -- we will NOT learn who the season 5 outrigger shooters were.

Although, not learn in the final 3 hours, maybe. In the EW piece they said that contrary to previous statements, at some point in the near future they will publicly talk about some of the thoughts behind their decisions of different mysteries, so maybe they'll simply give us that factual answer in an interview.

[Beebz]

maybe it's just me, but they come off as some cocky mofo's in almost every interview i read. they get so defensive about any criticisms and fall back on the "it's our story, we'll do it how we want". which is fine, i guess, but don't be such assholes about not answering questions that everybody thought they were going to get answers to. and shit like this...



drives me nuts. i guess i'm just in the boat of don't ask a question/show something unless you fully intend on coming full circle on it.

I completely agree. They are defensive as shit, and they don't even seem to understand why people are pissed. It's not because they provided bad answers. It's that they didn't provide concrete answers. Or, answers at all.

It would have been nothing for them to tell Sepinwall who was supposed to be in that outrigger. Why not throw fans a bone? It's irritating. Especially when they're on the record saying that they won't answer questions.

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

Just an obvious thought that has been mentioned here today. But I found it interesting that the power of the light seems to be electromagnetic and Desmond is trapped in one of those wells. Seems to be a likely candidate in keeping Flocke on this island.

[JacobLovesYou]

i dont know, maybe. i don't think so though because they didn't seem egyptian to me. the statue is egyptian and the board game MiB and jacob played is an ancient egyptian game. buuuut there are also heiroglyphs all over the room with the wheel and we now know that was completed sometime AFTER when last night took place, so who really knows...

[JacobLovesYou]

And hey there's your answer in that interview -- we will NOT learn who the season 5 outrigger shooters were.

Although, not learn in the final 3 hours, maybe. In the EW piece they said that contrary to previous statements, at some point in the near future they will publicly talk about some of the thoughts behind their decisions of different mysteries, so maybe they'll simply give us that factual answer in an interview.

i really hope to crap they do. they really messed up the pacing of the outrigger thing for this season. they had a few PERFECT opportunities early in the season when everyone was using the hell out of the outriggers. and it would have been the perfect opportunity for jack to get the scar on his neck. no outrigger conclusion really makes me mad.

[clcfball11]

Every time the smoke monster appears in the form of a human in past episodes, rather it be in the form of the MIB or Locke, a certain musical note of sorts faintly plays in the background. Similar to the violin that comes on whenever Jacob is shown or mentioned for the first time in the episode. I'm sure most of you know what I'm talking about, and if you don't, you would if you heard it.

That same exact thing happened when "Mother" was first shown in the reflection in the water.

That, combined with the fact that she took out an entire village and thoroughly buried that hole, AND her evil mannerisms, tell me that she WAS the smoke monster. It is clear as day to me after watching the episode 3 times.

[thebridge15]

because it was too late to edit:

i guess i should clarify. i am not one of those people who want an answer to ever single mystery they've ever introduced. i agree with them that this story is more about the characters, and closing their story is more important than going through a laundry list of of all of the mysteries. but some of these mysteries/scenes were built up to be huge things when they were first introduced and to ignore them just because "it doesn't fit the story anymore" seems cheap. it's kinda like, then why did it fit the story then?Here's what's important: because they had no idea what they were doing at the beginning. They just didn't. They knew that there would be six seasons, and that Adam and Eve would be the mother and Aaron? No.

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

Just an obvious thought that has been mentioned here today. But I found it interesting that the power of the light seems to be electromagnetic and Desmond is trapped in one of those wells. Seems to be a likely candidate in keeping Flocke on this island.

This is a terribly typed sentence.....my bad. Basically, Desmond can withstand electromagnetic fields, this light is obviously electromagnetic, theres more to that story, can't wait for it.

[thebridge15]

This is a terribly typed sentence.....my bad. Basically, Desmond can withstand electromagnetic fields, this light is obviously electromagnetic, theres more to that story, can't wait for it.Maybe Whitmore knows that, and wanted to see if Desmond could handle being the protector, which may involve that kind of exposure.

[JacobLovesYou]

i think L & C always knew what they were doing. they just didn't know the whole path but dropped big hints throughout the whole series for future wrap up. if i can find a link i'll post it, it shows how the show changed as soon as they become the runners. one sec, let me try and find it...

[JacobLovesYou]

i think L & C always knew what they were doing. they just didn't know the whole path but dropped big hints throughout the whole series for future wrap up. if i can find a link i'll post it, it shows how the show changed as soon as they become the runners. one sec, let me try and find it...

found it:

pretty interesting considering where the series went


1.9 Carlton Cuse joins “Lost.”

1.9 First appearance of Ethan Goodspeed.

1.11 Locke and Boone find the hatch.

1.24 First appearance of Tom Friendly.

1.24 First appearance of Smokezilla.

1.24 First glimpse inside The Swan.

2.3 First appearance of Gerald & Karen De Groot, Alvar Hanso and Pierre Chang.

2.14 First appearance of Ben Linus.

2.23 First appearance of Charles Widmore.

3.1 Last episode co-written by J.J. Abrams.

3.6 First mention of Jacob.

3.7 First appearance of Richard Alpert

3.8 First appearance of Eloise Hawking.

3.20 First appearance of Horace Goodspeed.


original article: http://www.aintitcool.com/node/44534

[thebridge15]

I hate people who don't watch Lost saying that the show makes no sense. If the pilot would have included all of this crazy shit, then I'd agree. But we were introduced to these themes and characters gradually, which makes Lost an amazing show.

A show with just people surviving on an island would be boring as hell.

But even I, a devotee of Lost from the beginning, don't think that they knew what they were doing fully when they started. I think that a lot was planned out in idea stages, but I also think that at least Jacob and MiB weren't really planned until late in the game.

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

great recap by vozzek

http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2010/05/things-i-noticed-across-sea-by-vozzek69.html

makes me appreciate the episode a little more, there are lots of assumptions about stuff they didn't show, but i think that's what the writers want people to be doing.

i think i've accepted that the episode was more about clarifying lots of little issues than providing massive answers. it wasn't at all what i wanted, but it was still decent. the placement of the episode was definitely the biggest issue.



just read that whole thing

and after reading one of the first responses, where they were talking about whether or not she was the smoke monster

the guy was like "you would think after beign down tehre for an eternity you'd just say "fuck it" and go into the light"

and isn't that basically what happened with the hatch, when jack and locke and desmond failed to input the numbers

[thebridge15]

just read that whole thing

and after reading one of the first responses, where they were talking about whether or not she was the smoke monster

the guy was like "you would think after beign down tehre for an eternity you'd just say "fuck it" and go into the light"

and isn't that basically what happened with the hatch, when jack and locke and desmond failed to input the numbersIt's exactly what happened. I wish I could remember the quote by Locke, but essentially he just wanted to see what would happen if he didn't save the world.

[water_into_wine]

I completely agree. They are defensive as shit, and they don't even seem to understand why people are pissed. It's not because they provided bad answers. It's that they didn't provide concrete answers. Or, answers at all.

It would have been nothing for them to tell Sepinwall who was supposed to be in that outrigger. Why not throw fans a bone? It's irritating. Especially when they're on the record saying that they won't answer questions.

They have said repeatedly they wanted to let the series stand on its own, so if they did that then they face the risk of people second-guessing their choices as the show is going on.

[water_into_wine]

At the moment, I am absolutely convinced of this theory.

"A couple of my readers pointed out that when Jacob sends the Man in Black down the log flume and he turns into the Smoke Monster, the light in the cave goes out. And they've wondered if that means that Smokey now is the light that Jacob is supposed to protect and that's why he can't leave the island."

Which means I am probably dead wrong.

[thebridge15]

At the moment, I am absolutely convinced of this theory.

"A couple of my readers pointed out that when Jacob sends the Man in Black down the log flume and he turns into the Smoke Monster, the light in the cave goes out. And they've wondered if that means that Smokey now is the light that Jacob is supposed to protect and that's why he can't leave the island."

Which means I am probably dead wrong.I think I remember the light staying on...

[DIDriveOut2SPAC]

It's exactly what happened. I wish I could remember the quote by Locke, but essentially he just wanted to see what would happen if he didn't save the world.

:thumbsup

[thebridge15]

Rewatched, and you can't tell. You just see the smoke leaving and then the screen cuts away.

Also, how the hell can no one else find the light but the protector?

[water_into_wine]

Rewatched, and you can't tell. You just see the smoke leaving and then the screen cuts away.

Also, how the hell can no one else find the light but the protector?

Before the smoke comes up the light clearly dims.

Also my other post concerning how Locke saw Smokey in the beginning fits that theory perfectly.

Locke sees the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zb9emoQD-SM

Locke describes the Monster:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n09NIZCeYGA

Eko and Locke say what they saw (Beginning of the clip):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0aKSKsvH3g


I'm thinking Smokey showed Locke the light in those little flashes he does. Either that or there is something that we have not seen yet. But the description both times is quite clear. Locke clearly saw something different than the Smokey and/or Smokey showed him the light.

That also explains why Locke was so scared when Smokey came when they were coming back from the Black Rock in Season 1.

Concerning the protector that could simply be a rule.

[dh4645]

I wasn't into Vozz's review this week, I usually love them.

he talks about fake mom being a smoke monster...which i thought too...but she is an actual person when MiB kills her, because she has a skeleton that jack/kate find in the cave.

[thebridge15]

Before the smoke comes up the light clearly dims.Because there's smoke coming out. The smoke could clearly leave, but the light could still be there.

If Aaron has taken the light, and by connection the life of everything on the island/the world, why would him leaving be bad? Wouldn't it be worse for him to die?

[dh4645]

I think I remember the light staying on...

i thought it went out too, but it could have just been the black smoke blocking the light.

[crushme5]

i'm too lazy to go back and search this thread, but if i recall correctly, the writers had the pilot and first two seasons written from the start, just in case the show actually was a hit. They also wrote the final three episodes at the time in case the show fizzled after a couple seasons. The promo said that next week would be the last "new" episode, which was correct. there will be one more "old" episode (meaning written originally) and then the two hour "old" finale. i think the reason to tie up a lot of the mystery is because they are explained in the last three episodes.

[twistedmind1586]

he talks about fake mom being a smoke monster...which i thought too...but she is an actual person when MiB kills her, because she has a skeleton that jack/kate find in the cave.

he actually said he thought of her as both the protector and smoke monster.

she was the good AND bad of the island, while MIB and Jacob are split into bad and good.

because she was both, i think she stayed human, as opposed to MIB being evil incarnate.

[thebridge15]

Rousseau referred to the smoke/Aaron as the protection of the island.

[dh4645]

he actually said he thought of her as both the protector and smoke monster.

she was the good AND bad of the island, while MIB and Jacob are split into bad and good.

because she was both, i think she stayed human, as opposed to MIB being evil incarnate.

ok, i guess i can buy that...

sure why, not...i've had a few beers and am feeling agreeable

[JacobLovesYou]

Rousseau referred to the smoke/Aaron as the protection of the island.

the smoke monster isn't aaron.... i'm pretty sure

[dh4645]

the smoke monster isn't aaron.... i'm pretty sure

he just keeps saying aaron in his posts to be a douche

[water_into_wine]

i thought it went out too, but it could have just been the black smoke blocking the light.

That's what I thought too originally, but it is too hard to tell and it fits well with the theory I think.

i'm too lazy to go back and search this thread, but if i recall correctly, the writers had the pilot and first two seasons written from the start, just in case the show actually was a hit. They also wrote the final three episodes at the time in case the show fizzled after a couple seasons. The promo said that next week would be the last "new" episode, which was correct. there will be one more "old" episode (meaning written originally) and then the two hour "old" finale. i think the reason to tie up a lot of the mystery is because they are explained in the last three episodes.

I'm fairly certain that none of this post is correct.

[Beebz]

Rousseau referred to the smoke/Aaron as the protection of the island.

Are you calling MiB "Aaron" just to be a pain in the ass or what?

And 41 makes a great point: Mother died from a stab wound. Her skeleton is in the caves. For every circumstance that points toward her being the smoke monster, there are the same number of facts showing otherwise.

[JacobLovesYou]

if the smoke monster actually ends up having a crazy name it'll either be the best shocker of the series or the lamest thing the series ever did.

[Beebz]

That's what I thought too originally, but it is too hard to tell and it fits well with the theory I think.



I'm fairly certain that none of this post is correct.

You're correct. They had two seasons planned out. After it was a hit and they knew it would be around a while, they needed to create the master plan. It's why there was stalling in the beginning of season 3, and why they knew they needed an end date.

[JacobLovesYou]

and the second half of season 3 all the way through season 5 was balls to the wall great.

[Beebz]

and the second half of season 3 all the way through season 5 was balls to the wall great.

None of them were as good as season 1. I liked five a whole lot though.

[water_into_wine]

1
5
2
3
4

6 tbd

Edit: 1,5 and 2 are all very close in my opinion with a decent gap between 2 and 3. Then 3 and 4 are close in there placements.

[JacobLovesYou]

Also, consider the wall glyphs we saw during Dead is Dead, involving the worship of the smoke monster. Egyptian hieroglyphics would predate Jacob or the MIB's arrival on the island, indicative of the monster being around for much, much longer. At least that's my take on it

from vozzek.

[Rylan]

I think at least some of the scenes for the finale were filmed a few years ago. Not sure about the entire episode. This is either huge or complete bullshit, I have no idea which, but I remember hearing a while ago that...
Walt filmed some scenes for the end of the show while he was 10 because it would make no sense for a 16 year old Walt to show up now.

[JacobLovesYou]

while i really hope that is true, i am extremely, extremely doubtful. i'd give anything for it to be true, but i'd put it at around 5%.

[water_into_wine]

I think at least some of the scenes for the finale were filmed a few years ago. Not sure about the entire episode. This is either huge or complete bullshit, I have no idea which, but I remember hearing a while ago that...
Walt filmed some scenes for the end of the show while he was 10 because it would make no sense for a 16 year old Walt to show up now.

Writers have dismissed this rumor.

[antsman41]

1
2 (post Michael Emerson)
3
5
6 (for now)
4
2 (pre Michael Emerson)

[junior94]

Having now read Vossek's analysis, it's actually pretty similar to the theory I'd begun noodling over this morning after having slept on my initial reaction to the episode. That ALL of this was basically Mother's giant con, bringing Claudia to the island (in the same way Jacob had later brought so many others) in order to get her child, to lay the groundwork for getting her successor as protector, and in the end getting one of them to kill her because she was tired as shit of doing the job, and since she couldn't commit suicide, that was the only way.


And reading over the part about the light doing the job of healing the sick, etc etc... it brought to mind a detail from a couple years ago, that Rose herself even blatantly questioned in dialog: Jack developing appendicitis in season 4. That was surely no accident, no coincidence. People on this island don't just "get sick" as a natural progression of life. Perhaps the island was trying to give Jack a major speed **** because it didn't want him to succeed in his plan of leaving with the rest of the candidates?

[hbktonyb]

That interview with Darlton made me depressed...Jesus, I understand it is about characters, but they must answer the main questions about the island...the fact that they said this...

" And since this was the final big mythological episode that we were going to do, we felt like it was a good placement for it, and now we'll roll into the finale. We make no apologies. We planned this..."

...really worries me

[JacobLovesYou]

certain answers are still going to come just because of the nature of how things have to wrap up.

[JTRocks]

i find this show entertaining and all, probly one of my favorite shows of all time, but i just dont know how they are going to explain half the shit that went down last night. and dont come in here with your "not everything will be explained, some mysteries will be unanswered" bullshit. i understand that not every question the show will be answered, but to come out and just throw something like that at the audience with a total of about 140 minutes left of show? what the fuck. lets see here:

1) Where did their adopted mom come from?
2) Did Jacob’s brother really go thru life without a name? (I can see them sitting on this for a big reveal)
3) What the hell is this glowing cave? (so fucking cheesy are you kidding me?)
4) Did the mom have any “powers”?
5) If not, how did she know anything about the properties of the cave?
6) Why is Jacob so long-lived?
7) Why does the smoke monster hate Jacob? Until Jacob killed un-Jacob, it looks like he was trapped at the bottom of the waterfall.
8) What did their mom mean when she said she had set it up so that the brother couldn’t hurt each?
9) Why, then was Jacob able to beat (as a child) and kill (as an adult) his brother?
10) Who built the 10 storey statue that Jacob lived in? dont tell me it's the people in the huts, bullshit!
11) Why couldn’t Jacob see dead people but his brother could?
12) Are people who see the dead (e.g. Jacob’s bro, Hurley, Sawyer) eliminated as Guardians?
13) How did these seemingly ancient hut dwellers figure out about the donkey wheel? (wouldnt somebody have fucked with it and turned it and all of a sudden they travel thru time? oh wait, no. somehow after hundreds maybe thousands of years, ben was the first one to turn the fucking wheel? fucking bullshit!
14) Assuming smoke monster inhabited the dead body of Jacob’s bro, why is he unable to leave the Island?
15) Knowing that, why would unJacob/smoke monster bother to build the donkey wheel? Cause a guy needed a hobby?
16) When did all this take place? like, how far before Richard arrived?
17) Jacob’s mom was killed by Janney who was killed by Jacob’s brother, who was killed by Jacob. Do you have to kill someone in your family to protect the Island?
18 ) Jacob was originally supposed to be the Island guardian? Does that mean the next guardian might also be someone not on Jacob’s list of six?

All that shit, from just one episode last night.

[hbktonyb]

certain answers are still going to come just because of the nature of how things have to wrap up.

Hopefully the main ones are answered...

[JacobLovesYou]

^a lot of that stuff is just you needing to take a chill pill

EDIT: to the post with the list in it

[ProudMonkey420]

^agreed.

[hbktonyb]

^agreed with Hugo

[DoDaFoo]

I think we can all agree the episode wasn't very good.

Some of us liked it, so no, we can't all agree.

[Swizz2007]

Holy shit, what a horrible episode. One of the worst of all time.

[JacobLovesYou]

i think the polarity this episode has gotten is interesting.

in no way shape or form would i ever call that episode horrible though.

[dh4645]

on a side note

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaIS7E_B9wQ

[JacobLovesYou]

speaking of which, does vincent make an appearance in the final 2 eps? surely rose and bernard are in it again. if they flew to hawaii to film sideways scenes they surely filmed some island scenes. i would at least think so anyway.

[water_into_wine]

i find this show entertaining and all, probly one of my favorite shows of all time, but i just dont know how they are going to explain half the shit that went down last night. and dont come in here with your "not everything will be explained, some mysteries will be unanswered" bullshit. i understand that not every question the show will be answered, but to come out and just throw something like that at the audience with a total of about 140 minutes left of show? what the fuck. lets see here:

1) Where did their adopted mom come from? Who cares? Doesn't matter at all. Probably Rome or something.
2) Did Jacob’s brother really go thru life without a name? (I can see them sitting on this for a big reveal) Probably not, but we're not going to get it so it doesn't actually mean anything
3) What the hell is this glowing cave? (so fucking cheesy are you kidding me?) The "heart" of the island
4) Did the mom have any “powers”? Yeah, sure seems like it. She was the "protector"
5) If not, how did she know anything about the properties of the cave? N/A
6) Why is Jacob so long-lived? He's now the protector/The Mother made it so
7) Why does the smoke monster hate Jacob? Until Jacob killed un-Jacob, it looks like he was trapped at the bottom of the waterfall. He only took away his body and isn't letting him do the one thing he wants to, which is leaving the island
8) What did their mom mean when she said she had set it up so that the brother couldn’t hurt each? Not completely sure, but it seems to be one of the "rules"
9) Why, then was Jacob able to beat (as a child) and kill (as an adult) his brother? She probably meant they couldn't kill each other, and technically Smokey is still around. Or you could deduce that Jacob becoming the protector/Smokey no longer a candidate for the job/Mother is gone meant that rule no longer stood
10) Who built the 10 storey statue that Jacob lived in? dont tell me it's the people in the huts, bullshit! No one knows and they probably won't answer. I believe on a podcast that Cuse said it was the Egyptians if that makes ya feel better
11) Why couldn’t Jacob see dead people but his brother could? He wasn't "special"
12) Are people who see the dead (e.g. Jacob’s bro, Hurley, Sawyer) eliminated as Guardians? No, I think they are candidates.
13) How did these seemingly ancient hut dwellers figure out about the donkey wheel? (wouldnt somebody have fucked with it and turned it and all of a sudden they travel thru time? oh wait, no. somehow after hundreds maybe thousands of years, ben was the first one to turn the fucking wheel? fucking bullshit! And you know he was the first, how? he obviously knew what to do with it so I think someone had done it before. And I'm not so sure it was the hut people who knew how it worked so much as it was all Smokey's doing
14) Assuming smoke monster inhabited the dead body of Jacob’s bro, why is he unable to leave the Island? Well the Mother said he could never leave anyway, but I think this is something we will find out
15) Knowing that, why would unJacob/smoke monster bother to build the donkey wheel? Cause a guy needed a hobby? He thought he could get over. He didn't believe his Mother remember? And it sure seemed like from her reaction that he would have succeeded
16) When did all this take place? like, how far before Richard arrived? Call sheets indicated 23 A.D. Wayyyyy before Richard
17) Jacob’s mom was killed by Janney who was killed by Jacob’s brother, who was killed by Jacob. Do you have to kill someone in your family to protect the Island? Nope. Jacob's mom was killed so the Mother could take the babies and raise them as candidates. The Mother was killed purely out of revenge, and Jacob killed in order for Smokey to leave. I don't think it has anything to do with killing the protector. But yes, that is a fucked up family
18 ) Jacob was originally supposed to be the Island guardian? Does that mean the next guardian might also be someone not on Jacob’s list of six? Possibly? But this isn't really a question you don't expect to get answered so why fret? My theory actually right now is that Jacob never was a candidate until after Mother bashed Smokey's head down in the well.

All that shit, from just one episode last night.


I put my thoughts/responses in bold.


Some of them were quite obvious to me. Before you get all my mad try to look at it logically. And there were a lot of things they basically told you that you seemed to have missed.

[water_into_wine]

I feel like I'm making new theories ever two seconds :lol

So my biggest one right now is that I think Jacob never was a candidate until their Mother bashed Smokey's head in to stop him. This explains why Jacob never was "special" like Smokey (so only candidates have those "powers) and fits in that she wanted Smokey all along to be the one who would protect the island.

[monkeyman420]

Does JTrocks even watch the show? Some of those questions really don't require that much thought.

Really liked Vozek's review. After watching the episode again tonight I think he's on the right track with most of his thoughts/theories.

And come on, is the identity of the people that were on the outrigger shooting really that important?

[hbktonyb]

Don't care much about the outrigger, but don't understand why they would introduce it without an answer...seems dumb

[water_into_wine]

Don't care much about the outrigger, but don't understand why they would introduce it without an answer...seems dumb

I think they answered that. They set it up, but then when they were moving the pieces it just didn't work out so now in the format of the story we have in front of us it doesn't matter that much because it doesn't affect any of the characters we care about.

[JacobLovesYou]

i went back and watched the outrigger scene last week to refresh my memory. it's definitely going to be a sore thumb on all rewatches. it's something that would've been an amazing tie in, but i've trusted these dudes for 6 years and still trust them, so as long as the finale isn't the worse 2 and a half hours ever, i know i'll be pretty happy. so long as there is relative closure i dont care how they end it.

[hbktonyb]

I think they answered that. They set it up, but then when they were moving the pieces it just didn't work out so now in the format of the story we have in front of us it doesn't matter that much because it doesn't affect any of the characters we care about.

That is just so freakin lame. 3 years to tell a story and finish it, and they "ran out of time"...

[water_into_wine]

Also, and this may seem obvious, I'm convinced that the Mother didn't put the senet game their for young Smokey. she was simply lying to get him from thinking it actually came from somewhere else.

[water_into_wine]

That is just so freakin lame. 3 years to tell a story and finish it, and they "ran out of time"...

It was the middle of last season...

It's not something that has brewing for awhile.

[water_into_wine]

Halfway through Jensen's article and it is surprisingly sound this week. I like this:

But they always want more.'' When she was asked if man can possess this light, Mother said, ''No. But they can try. And if they try they can put it out. And if it goes out here, it goes out everywhere.'' Bookmark this idea, because I'm pretty sure Mother just spelled out the stakes for the final three hours of Lost. Is this why Charles Widmore has returned to The Island? Is he one more man who simply wants his more? What will happen if he succeeds? And what about the Monster? Does he, too, crave more light... or is he more interested in the Armageddon of it all and snuffing out the light?

[hbktonyb]

So why introduce it was my original question? They knew they had 20 or so episodes left, if they can't spare 10 seconds to explain something, then don't introduce.

[water_into_wine]

So why introduce it was my original question? They knew they had 20 or so episodes left, if they can't spare 10 seconds to explain something, then don't introduce.

I'm not saying I know and don't get me wrong I am disappointed we won't get that tie-in, but it seems clear that they had an original idea at who would be in the outrigger but while they were doing the more necessary things that it got too difficult to put people in that situation again that would make sense with their original idea. That seems to be their clear explanation of it no matter how unreasonable we might find it. I can accept that reason because it just shows that it really wasn't important. It would have been cool, but likely not significant.

[twistedmind1586]

I'm still holding out hope that they're lying about the outriggers, and it shows up sometime in the next 3 and a half hours.

My theory based on last night: Because the light is life, death and rebirth, smokey is merely a manifestation of the death, or evil, in the light. By "leave the island" I think smokey means that he wants to move on. his spirit is still trapped on the island (much like the whispers) and by putting the light out (Getting off the island) he is going to move on to his next life (rebirth, whether it be some spiritual life or another physical life). [rereading this, i realize it doesn't make much sense]

i also don't think we're ever going to find out what happens if smokey gets off the island, cuz lets face it, he's not going to get off.

[JacobLovesYou]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q&feature=player_embedded

don't know if anyone saw that or not

[water_into_wine]

I'm still holding out hope that they're lying about the outriggers, and it shows up sometime in the next 3 and a half hours.

My theory based on last night: Because the light is life, death and rebirth, smokey is merely a manifestation of the death, or evil, in the light. By "leave the island" I think smokey means that he wants to move on. his spirit is still trapped on the island (much like the whispers) and by putting the light out (Getting off the island) he is going to move on to his next life (rebirth, whether it be some spiritual life or another physical life). [rereading this, i realize it doesn't make much sense]

i also don't think we're ever going to find out what happens if smokey gets off the island, cuz lets face it, he's not going to get off.

Why? Just to be disappointed?

I like the second part of your post.


The more I think about it, the more I realize that we are not going to get a clear explanation of what the light is. I think we already got that. It is everything that encompasses life. It is like the vision of the Trinity in Dante's Paradiso. We won't ever be able to understand it because something like that simply is incomprehensible in it's all encompassing nature. There is no way to explain it. And when someone becomes protector of the light they are like Dante when he has a flash of understanding but has no way of truly expressing it (though even I don't really believe this point, because I think it is evident that Jacob grew to understand over his long stint on the island).

Stop me if I'm sounding like Jensen after taking his crazy pills :lol

[twistedmind1586]

Why? Just to be disappointed?

I like the second part of your post.


The more I think about it, the more I realize that we are not going to get a clear explanation of what the light is. I think we already got that. It is everything that encompasses life. It is like the vision of the Trinity in Dante's Paradiso. We won't ever be able to understand it because something like that simply is incomprehensible in it's all encompassing nature. There is no way to explain it. And when someone becomes protector of the light they are like Dante when he has a flash of understanding but has no way of truly expressing it (though even I don't really believe this point, because I think it is evident that Jacob grew to understand over his long stint on the island).

Stop me if I'm sounding like Jensen after taking his crazy pills :lol

that makes sense. there is no point in saying anythign more than the light is the life of the island, which in turn is the light of the world.

it's already hard to wrap your head around, and a convoluted explanation would only make it even more of a "wtf" thing.

i'm just wondering if the light plays into the last 2 episodes (with desmond most likely) or if it was only introduced to show why smokey can't leave the island (because he is a part of the light now)

[water_into_wine]

that makes sense. there is no point in saying anythign more than the light is the life of the island, which in turn is the light of the world.

it's already hard to wrap your head around, and a convoluted explanation would only make it even more of a "wtf" thing.

i'm just wondering if the light plays into the last 2 episodes (with desmond most likely) or if it was only introduced to show why smokey can't leave the island (because he is a part of the light now)

Exactly :thumbsup

It definitely will continue to play a big role. They wouldn't introduce if it didn't, and yes, Desmond must play a big part in it.

[ant_marching41]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8JBYlNTf-Q&feature=player_embedded

don't know if anyone saw that or not
:lol:lol:lol

Pretty sneaky, bro!

[hbktonyb]

that makes sense. there is no point in saying anythign more than the light is the life of the island, which in turn is the light of the world.

it's already hard to wrap your head around, and a convoluted explanation would only make it even more of a "wtf" thing.

i'm just wondering if the light plays into the last 2 episodes (with desmond most likely) or if it was only introduced to show why smokey can't leave the island (because he is a part of the light now)

What does that even mean though..."the life of the island???"

[water_into_wine]

What does that even mean though..."the life of the island???"

Read my post that he quoted. I think that gives a clearer idea.

[junior94]

i find this show entertaining and all, probly one of my favorite shows of all time, but i just dont know how they are going to explain half the shit that went down last night. and dont come in here with your "not everything will be explained, some mysteries will be unanswered" bullshit. i understand that not every question the show will be answered, but to come out and just throw something like that at the audience with a total of about 140 minutes left of show? what the fuck. lets see here:

1) Where did their adopted mom come from? I'm not sure that really matters. She was probably "brought" to the island a long time ago from the person who was previously protecting it.
2) Did Jacob’s brother really go thru life without a name? (I can see them sitting on this for a big reveal) That seemed to be what they were implying. And, does it not occur to people that if we haven't been given his name by now, what his name is/would be isn't at all relevant? It might as well be Bob. I mean you think about it, does it have any particular meaning what Jacob's name is? (aside from the producers fascination with using character names from literary sources they like -- something ALL writers like doing, btw, including myself)
3) What the hell is this glowing cave? (so fucking cheesy are you kidding me?) Actually I'm not sure that I ultimately have a problem with the island's power when you get down into the nitty gritty is what they said about it last night. That's the kind of thing where, I really think there's only so much you can say about it for some "appropriate" description.
4) Did the mom have any “powers”? Clearly she did, she was ageless (though not immortal, it's 2 diff things) just like Jacob and Richard later would be. I believe now, as many other do, that she was also already Smokey.
5) If not, how did she know anything about the properties of the cave?
6) Why is Jacob so long-lived? See #4. The wine that Mother gave him granted him the ability to never age, he could only die via an external force.
7) Why does the smoke monster hate Jacob? Until Jacob killed un-Jacob, it looks like he was trapped at the bottom of the waterfall.
8) What did their mom mean when she said she had set it up so that the brother couldn’t hurt each? uhh, she meant she established rules so that they could never directly kill one another.
9) Why, then was Jacob able to beat (as a child) and kill (as an adult) his brother? Jacob didn't kill MIB in their adulthood. The smoke monster initially killed MIB, it thrashed his body giving him internal injuries and let him in those branches where Jacob found him (much like what Boone thought Smokey did to Shannon in his season 1 hallucination)
10) Who built the 10 storey statue that Jacob lived in? dont tell me it's the people in the huts, bullshit! Well honestly, this is something I DID think would get talked about in this episode.
11) Why couldn’t Jacob see dead people but his brother could? It would seem to be somehow tied into the notion that MIB was intended as the true, original inheritor of Mother's position as island protector. He was the real candidate, if you will (just like how Sawyer -- a candidate -- could see Jacob's kid body in the jungle but Richard couldn't)
12) Are people who see the dead (e.g. Jacob’s bro, Hurley, Sawyer) eliminated as Guardians?
13) How did these seemingly ancient hut dwellers figure out about the donkey wheel? (wouldnt somebody have fucked with it and turned it and all of a sudden they travel thru time? oh wait, no. somehow after hundreds maybe thousands of years, ben was the first one to turn the fucking wheel? fucking bullshit!
14) Assuming smoke monster inhabited the dead body of Jacob’s bro, why is he unable to leave the Island? I think that's tied into the "rules" established long ago, he can't leave while Jacob (or any of Jacob's potential replacements) are still there on the island.
15) Knowing that, why would unJacob/smoke monster bother to build the donkey wheel? Cause a guy needed a hobby? I think because he believed what the men told him, that the light/water could ultimate be manipulated to this end.
16) When did all this take place? like, how far before Richard arrived? Well as Vozzek talks about, certain details point to Claudia being possible Roman, so anywhere from 500BC to 500AD.
17) Jacob’s mom was killed by Janney who was killed by Jacob’s brother, who was killed by Jacob. Do you have to kill someone in your family to protect the Island?
18 ) Jacob was originally supposed to be the Island guardian? Does that mean the next guardian might also be someone not on Jacob’s list of six?

All that shit, from just one episode last night.

my answers bolded.

[junior94]

my answers bolded.


errr... okay, that's what I get for creating a post just going off an outdated link in my email and not bothering to look at any of the more recent stuff before.

I apparently just did a massive copycat act on Tony, sorry bro :lol
(and yea, as I saw you also said, some of that stuff I indicated seemed fairly obvious to me upon the first viewing)


EDIT: oh and also, not that a ton of people here have been guilty about it or anything, but I wonder if people realize why it's inaccurate to describe these characters as "immortal" (had to explain this to my mom tonight, although to be fair she never watches as close as she should). Well, NOW it's obvious, seeing as how they're dead, but being "ageless" just means you'll never age, you can't die of natural causes. You can still die, if murdered by someone (like the LOTR elves, I forget if that's here or someone else I brought that up).

[water_into_wine]

errr... okay, that's what I get for creating a post just going off an outdated link in my email and not bothering to look at any of the more recent stuff before.

I apparently just did a massive copycat act on Tony, sorry bro :lol
(and yea, as I saw you also said, some of that stuff I indicated seemed fairly obvious to me upon the first viewing)


EDIT: oh and also, not that a ton of people here have been guilty about it or anything, but I wonder if people realize why it's inaccurate to describe these characters as "immortal" (had to explain this to my mom tonight, although to be fair she never watches as close as she should). Well, NOW it's obvious, seeing as how they're dead, but being "ageless" just means you'll never age, you can't die of natural causes. You can still die, if murdered by someone (like the LOTR elves, I forget if that's here or someone else I brought that up).

You raise a good point with your edit, and no problemo. Good to get other insight to make sure there is some sort of consensus.



Also I'm wondering, do we assume that the wine has any sort of power? Power not to age? Because Jacob gave Richard the wine before he asked never to die so would that mean Jacob was banking on Richard to ask for that in a manipulation of sorts?

If we assume the wine has that power, then I think you would have to make that assumption with Richard and Jacob. However, I think I believe in more of it being symbolic and as I believe Vozzek said that it made Jacob believe he was the protector so he became it (and Richard believe he was ageless). That basically the protector can give those abilities/rules and just uses the wine as symbolism but really has nothing inherent in it's properties.

[junior94]

Also I'll say, thanks in part to sleeping on it, watching it again, and reading over a couple of very good reviews, I do not hate this episode as much as I did immediately after the fact last night. I still have issues with it, no doubt, but I've certainly a much less visceral reaction to it now.

[water_into_wine]

Also I'll say, thanks in part to sleeping on it, watching it again, and reading over a couple of very good reviews, I do not hate this episode as much as I did immediately after the fact last night. I still have issues with it, no doubt, but I've certainly a much less visceral reaction to it now.

I know I'm probably in the minority of saying that I'm actually starting to like it a lot.

I think that has a large influence from how much fun it has actually been to debate, come up with new theories, and just using basic logic to figure out what we were presented means. And once I nailed down a few things that seem to make lots of sense then the episode made a lot of sense. Doesn't mean it was perfect, but I'm hoping that is because they address to the two main concerns I have still around:

-We still don't know what the Smoke Monster really is? Was it the Mother too? (I think the first question will answer the second)
-What are the rules and who are they made by? (I don't think they are set in stone so as long as they say something like, "the protector makes the rules" then I am cool with it).


I understand why other people may not like it as much because they might not accept the answers that I see as answers. Also i agree with I think it was Brian's criticism that they didn't show Jacob seeing Smokey in his brother's body for the first time. However, I think I liked the character development of our two big mythological players a lot more than most.

[clcfball11]

Also I'll say, thanks in part to sleeping on it, watching it again, and reading over a couple of very good reviews, I do not hate this episode as much as I did immediately after the fact last night. I still have issues with it, no doubt, but I've certainly a much less visceral reaction to it now.

This. Exact same boat as you. :thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

[clcfball11]

Random, but what type of "ratings" did this episode get compared to next week's? I know someone on here (Bbianca I think) has that info on the insiders who watched and scored them all. If anyone is willing to post those again in a spoiler I'd love to look at them.

[twistedmind1586]

I agree with the person a few posts up who said they are starting to come around to the episode now.

I definitely realized that while it wasn't a huge "answers" episode, it provided a LOT of good insight as to why Jacob and MIB are the way they are, as well as telling us what exactly (well not exactly, but they strongly hint) at what exactly Smokey is, and why he can't leave the island.

It gave a lot of answers, just not the ones people expected.

Also, the writers said they aren't giving MIB a name because they know fans will over analyze whatever name he is given, instead of focusing on the character's actions. Someone above me basically said that, just adding a little bit more clarification.

[twistedmind1586]

One last thing before I'm off to bed.

I'm more convinced than ever that no one is going to replace Jacob. It doesn't seem like being the island's guardian is a gift or a choice, so much as it's a burden. Jacob/MIB's mother wanted to die, Jacob didn't want to accept the role, and then he went about trying to find a replacement, just like his mother.

[Beebz]

i think the polarity this episode has gotten is interesting.

in no way shape or form would i ever call that episode horrible though.

It wasnt horrible in the sense of a Expose, Stranger in a Strange Land or What Kate Does. For where it was in the timeline and what it should have delivered, it was a miserable failure.

Don't care much about the outrigger, but don't understand why they would introduce it without an answer...seems dumb

Yeah, if youre going to introduce mysteries, you better have a plan to answer them. If not, just tell someone in an interview who asks you a direct fucking question about it, who it was supposed to be.

I'm not saying I know and don't get me wrong I am disappointed we won't get that tie-in, but it seems clear that they had an original idea at who would be in the outrigger but while they were doing the more necessary things that it got too difficult to put people in that situation again that would make sense with their original idea. That seems to be their clear explanation of it no matter how unreasonable we might find it. I can accept that reason because it just shows that it really wasn't important. It would have been cool, but likely not significant.

I dont think it was going to be significant, either. So therefore, telling us who it was supposed to be shoudnt be that big of a deal.

I know I'm probably in the minority of saying that I'm actually starting to like it a lot.

I think that has a large influence from how much fun it has actually been to debate, come up with new theories, and just using basic logic to figure out what we were presented means. And once I nailed down a few things that seem to make lots of sense then the episode made a lot of sense. Doesn't mean it was perfect, but I'm hoping that is because they address to the two main concerns I have still around:

-We still don't know what the Smoke Monster really is? Was it the Mother too? (I think the first question will answer the second)
-What are the rules and who are they made by? (I don't think they are set in stone so as long as they say something like, "the protector makes the rules" then I am cool with it).

I understand why other people may not like it as much because they might not accept the answers that I see as answers. Also i agree with I think it was Brian's criticism that they didn't show Jacob seeing Smokey in his brother's body for the first time. However, I think I liked the character development of our two big mythological players a lot more than most.


Im all for debate and theorizing, too.....for the last six years. At this point, I want to see if our theories are correct. I want to see what the creators' vision for this was.

Yes, some of the stuff is fun to try and infer, and there were things presented in this episode that we can take as answers (although Im not anywhere close to being convinced Mother had Smokey powers--too many contradictory facts there).

That said, I still think this was a massive disappointment bordering on a mistake. The episode placement was ill-advised, the writing/plotting poor, and the overall idea, as Jensen said, seemed to be this big mythology that never quite congealed, like the writers had the start of some ideas and no way to reconcile them all. In fact, that's sort of what this entire sixth season, and series in general, is starting to feel like to me--a grand idea that never quite came together.

Dont get me wrong I still enjoy the show very much. Its just not what I thought it was a year ago--a massive, epic story where all the pieces of the puzzle fit nicely together at the end. Some of them could and probably will. There's no way of avoiding the fact that, at the conclusion of this series, there will likely be hundreds of loose ends/mysteries which go unanswered.

[dh4645]

One last thing before I'm off to bed.

I'm more convinced than ever that no one is going to replace Jacob. It doesn't seem like being the island's guardian is a gift or a choice, so much as it's a burden. Jacob/MIB's mother wanted to die, Jacob didn't want to accept the role, and then he went about trying to find a replacement, just like his mother.

i agree that it seems like a burden, but i dont agree that it'll still be jacob at the end of the last 147 minutes of the show.

edit: and i'm just guessing on the minutes....it's usually 42 min of show per hour (for most shows)

[junior94]

It wasnt horrible in the sense of a Expose, Stranger in a Strange Land or What Kate Does.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Expose was far from the worst episode of the series. Purely just on its own merits, I actually kinda liked it and found it rather interesting. Yes, the decision to create Nicki & Paulo in the first place and 90% of what they tried to do with them was an ill fated trainwreck, but their episode in the context of itself, was actually kinda cool.

I've always called it "the Forrest Gump episode of Lost". WTF, right? Well, in that here is a whole series of events and major set pieces from the past with which we're already familiar but now having these entirely new characters experience them, and seeing that all from THEIR perspective. And then of course the aspect of the built in, standalone mystery, figuring out the answer for just that episode.

[Beebz]

I've said this before and I'll say it again: Expose was far from the worst episode of the series. Purely just on its own merits, I actually kinda liked it and found it rather interesting. Yes, the decision to create Nicki & Paulo in the first place and 90% of what they tried to do with them was an ill fated trainwreck, but their episode in the context of itself, was actually kinda cool.

I've always called it "the Forrest Gump episode of Lost". WTF, right? Well, in that here is a whole series of events and major set pieces from the past with which we're already familiar but now having these entirely new characters experience them, and seeing that all from THEIR perspective. And then of course the aspect of the built in, standalone mystery, figuring out the answer for just that episode.

It was terrible for what it was. They had to shoehorn in an episode to kill off characters that were terrible ideas to begin with. It didnt feel anything like an episode of Lost and just destroyed Season 3 in its tracks. I like the FG analogy, but not the execution.

Stranger in a Strange Land, What Kate Does, Fire and Water, The Package, and the one where Sun spends all episode looking for her wedding ring are all in my bottom 10. Stranger in a Strange Land is probably the worst, though.

[Beebz]

There's something else I really want to know about the island that I think a lot of people are overlooking: why cant anyone find the island, and why cant they leave once they arrive?

[breckbrew]

You raise a good point with your edit, and no problemo. Good to get other insight to make sure there is some sort of consensus.



Also I'm wondering, do we assume that the wine has any sort of power? Power not to age? Because Jacob gave Richard the wine before he asked never to die so would that mean Jacob was banking on Richard to ask for that in a manipulation of sorts?

If we assume the wine has that power, then I think you would have to make that assumption with Richard and Jacob. However, I think I believe in more of it being symbolic and as I believe Vozzek said that it made Jacob believe he was the protector so he became it (and Richard believe he was ageless). That basically the protector can give those abilities/rules and just uses the wine as symbolism but really has nothing inherent in it's properties.

Did any of the reviews suggest any similiarities between the wine and religion? In Catholicism, and in some other christian sects, followers drink wine as though it is the blood of Christ and is considered a key to salvation and eternal life in heaven. Clearly, the island and the mysteries surrounding the island are part of some theology and I think that is why many people are having a hard time figuring out this episode. You are going to have to figure out for yourself what the light is, what the island is, and the roles the people on the island play.


Also I'll say, thanks in part to sleeping on it, watching it again, and reading over a couple of very good reviews, I do not hate this episode as much as I did immediately after the fact last night. I still have issues with it, no doubt, but I've certainly a much less visceral reaction to it now.


Yeah, I think this episode was meant to conjure up some of those initial thoughts we all had about the island when we first started watching the show. Many people started guessing it was hell or purgatory or something like that. Then we kind of got caught up in more science-themed discussions regarding time travel and the dharma project. I think this past episode, more than anything, was to get your mind thinking about the larger role the island plays again so that the finale makes sense and the pieces come closer together.

[water_into_wine]

Yeah, if youre going to introduce mysteries, you better have a plan to answer them. If not, just tell someone in an interview who asks you a direct fucking question about it, who it was supposed to be.



I dont think it was going to be significant, either. So therefore, telling us who it was supposed to be shoudnt be that big of a deal.




Im all for debate and theorizing, too.....for the last six years. At this point, I want to see if our theories are correct. I want to see what the creators' vision for this was.

Yes, some of the stuff is fun to try and infer, and there were things presented in this episode that we can take as answers (although Im not anywhere close to being convinced Mother had Smokey powers--too many contradictory facts there).

That said, I still think this was a massive disappointment bordering on a mistake. The episode placement was ill-advised, the writing/plotting poor, and the overall idea, as Jensen said, seemed to be this big mythology that never quite congealed, like the writers had the start of some ideas and no way to reconcile them all. In fact, that's sort of what this entire sixth season, and series in general, is starting to feel like to me--a grand idea that never quite came together.

Dont get me wrong I still enjoy the show very much. Its just not what I thought it was a year ago--a massive, epic story where all the pieces of the puzzle fit nicely together at the end. Some of them could and probably will. There's no way of avoiding the fact that, at the conclusion of this series, there will likely be hundreds of loose ends/mysteries which go unanswered.

Once again, they obviously really want the show to stand on it's own for a little while so they don't have the fans criticizing their decision not to show it, how it would have made sense, etc.

Also this is why I said I know some don't like it. After thinking about this episode I see the answers a lot more clearly in my opinion and I believe these are the answers that the writers were trying to infer. I don't think I'm overusing logic or getting too complex in my ideas so as long as the few concerns I do have that they seemed to leave completely unanswered are cleared up then I'm cool.

Did any of the reviews suggest any similiarities between the wine and religion? In Catholicism, and in some other christian sects, followers drink wine as though it is the blood of Christ and is considered a key to salvation and eternal life in heaven. Clearly, the island and the mysteries surrounding the island are part of some theology and I think that is why many people are having a hard time figuring out this episode. You are going to have to figure out for yourself what the light is, what the island is, and the roles the people on the island play.


Exactly, which is why I stressed it as a symbol. I never think that LOST aims to say that it definitely was "the blood of Christ", but they like to allude to different religions. So I think it was more symbolic and that you don't need to assume that the wine has its own properties making it special.

Basically I think the Island has its own theology. It won't be like "This is where God of the Christ is", "This is the Garden of Eden", or anything like that. I tihnk it alludes to many so they can leave it open-ended and people can interpret the different meanings of the Island for themselves because religion has so many meanings to people.

[breckbrew]

Exactly, which is why I stressed it as a symbol. I never think that LOST aims to say that it definitely was "the blood of Christ", but they like to allude to different religions. So I think it was more symbolic and that you don't need to assume that the wine has its own properties making it special.

Basically I think the Island has its own theology. It won't be like "This is where God of the Christ is", "This is the Garden of Eden", or anything like that. I tihnk it alludes to many so they can leave it open-ended and people can interpret the different meanings of the Island for themselves because religion has so many meanings to people.

:thumbsup Agree

[sunshower]

I'd love to hear people's theories if you're willing to take a stab:

Is Claire dead?
What's with the food drops?
Who built the statue?
Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?
Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?
Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?
Who is Penny's mother?
Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?
Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?
Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?
Why does Walt have special powers?
Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)
What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?
Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?

[Beebz]

Once again, they obviously really want the show to stand on it's own for a little while so they don't have the fans criticizing their decision not to show it, how it would have made sense, etc.

Also this is why I said I know some don't like it. After thinking about this episode I see the answers a lot more clearly in my opinion and I believe these are the answers that the writers were trying to infer. I don't think I'm overusing logic or getting too complex in my ideas so as long as the few concerns I do have that they seemed to leave completely unanswered are cleared up then I'm cool.


I think this is where you and I differ.

I want to know what the creators' opinions are. I want their canon. I dont need total ambiguity to be able to form my own interpretations and opinions of what I'm watching. That can happen with concrete answers.

What should have happened with Lost was the creators show us what their answers are, and then we could still say, "That's neat, but wouldn't it be cooler if it was this?" Or, "That's neat what they said this was, I accept that."

To me, this shouldnt be some college literature exercise where everyone can draw their own conclusions and there is no right or wrong. Leave some room for interpretation, but provide enough of a structure that there is no doubt about key issues, particularly on the mythology.

[dh4645]

I'd love to hear people's theories if you're willing to take a stab:

Is Claire dead?
What's with the food drops?
Who built the statue?
Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?
Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?
Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?
Who is Penny's mother?
Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?
Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?
Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?
Why does Walt have special powers?
Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)
What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?
Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?

i'll take the two easy ones:

juliet is dead and buried.
the statue was broken by richards ship - the black rock.

[Beebz]

I'd love to hear people's theories if you're willing to take a stab:

Is Claire dead?
Who caresshe's annoying and irrelavent

What's with the food drops?
Plotdevice that was created before the creators knew the endgame.

Who built the statue?
Dunno. Doubt we'll find out. Egyptians probably

Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?
Because Hawking is likely her maiden name, and Faraday was the man she married.

Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?
Dunno who cares?

Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?
See above.

Who is Penny's mother?
Same as previous two.

Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?
Good question. Probably a continuity error.

Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?
Dunno.

Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?
Dunno.

Why does Walt have special powers?
Yup.

Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)
In the flash sideways probably. She's likely Jack's ex-wife. No other reason not to show who she was unless its Juliet.


What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?
I doubt we'll know.

Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?
That's one we should get to know, but I doubt we will.



There are a million of these questions that will spring up after the finale.

[water_into_wine]

I think this is where you and I differ.

I want to know what the creators' opinions are. I want their canon. I dont need total ambiguity to be able to form my own interpretations and opinions of what I'm watching. That can happen with concrete answers.

What should have happened with Lost was the creators show us what their answers are, and then we could still say, "That's neat, but wouldn't it be cooler if it was this?" Or, "That's neat what they said this was, I accept that."

To me, this shouldnt be some college literature exercise where everyone can draw their own conclusions and there is no right or wrong. Leave some room for interpretation, but provide enough of a structure that there is no doubt about key issues, particularly on the mythology.

I just think you're misunderstanding me.

In my view, I do not see the answers as presented as ambiguous. I didn't see them as given directly, but I saw the answers clearly making them not ambiguous and because of that I do see these as the writer's answers and intentions.

[water_into_wine]

I'd love to hear people's theories if you're willing to take a stab:

Is Claire dead?
What's with the food drops?
Who built the statue?
Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?
Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?
Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?
Who is Penny's mother?
Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?
Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?
Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?
Why does Walt have special powers?
Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)
What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?
Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?

For me personally, I don't really care about half those questions (and I am not attacking you for asking those because they are legitimate). The ones I do care about from past seasons are mostly:

-The cabin stuff
-Eloise Hawking and her ability to know all
-The Statue (though I don't really care that much seeing as it probably just was the Egyptians, it is just that I swear I remember the writers saying we would see it built and that is all I really want form it, to see it built)

The food drops have always been a somewhat lingering question in my mind though, but I really could care less about people having different last names and such. The reason why I care about the above is because they were all important/introduced from at least the last two seasons.

Though I don't think Claire is dead at all. Just manipulated.

[pathetic]

http://www.hulu.com/watch/148617/lost-the-boy

dont know if this was posted earlier. hulu has a sneak clip at next weeks ep

[junior94]

For me personally, I don't really care about half those questions (and I am not attacking you for asking those because they are legitimate). The ones I do care about from past seasons are mostly:

-The cabin stuff
-Eloise Hawking and her ability to know all
-The Statue (though I don't really care that much seeing as it probably just was the Egyptians, it is just that I swear I remember the writers saying we would see it built and that is all I really want form it, to see it built)

The food drops have always been a somewhat lingering question in my mind though, but I really could care less about people having different last names and such. The reason why I care about the above is because they were all important/introduced from at least the last two seasons.

Though I don't think Claire is dead at all. Just manipulated.

Re: Eloise and her ability to know all -- After much considering, really the only aspect I feel like I haven't figured out and doesn't make sense to me is her placement in Desmond's "experience" in Flashes Before Your Eyes. I mean, was that essentially all in his mind? Was he already experiencing some other alternate reality? Did he truly physically go back in time? But really it's how Eloise was there.
As for everything else she knows, I've come to the conclusion that we got the one line answer to that from "The Variable" -- because she shoots her own unborn son in the past, 1977. Basically, Eloise is able to deduce and extrapolate everything that she does about the future (along with what I think is lots of practical research) because she figures out all of the many steps of events that would have HAD to occur in order to have her 30-something son from 2004 travel back in time 30 years to be in the spot where she would kill him in 1977 before she's even yet given birth to him (though already pregnant with him at the time).

This one significant event in what's her present in 1977 and how it was allowed to happen is how she was able to know so much about future events as she went along over the years. (EDIT: which is also why in the hospital she tells Penny "for the first time in a long time, I don't know what's going to happen next", because essentially she's reached the end finally in the progression of all the "future" events she figured out in relation to Daniel's death in the past)



Re: the Dharma food drop -- D&C said coyley in an interview several weeks ago that it's quite likely we'd get the answer to that, but not within the confines of the actual broadcasted how. So, maybe that'll be one of the factual bones they throw us in the course of talking about some of their idea processes (but not all) sometime a little while after the finale airs, which I mentioned a couple days ago they said WOULD indeed be happening.


EDIT: and yes I agree, I'm still EXTREMELY interested in learning more about the whole cabin situation, particularly more enlightenment on who asked Locke "help me" and why he looked as he did at the time, etc.

[water_into_wine]

Re: Eloise and her ability to know all -- After much considering, really the only aspect I feel like I haven't figured out and doesn't make sense to me is her placement in Desmond's "experience" in Flashes Before Your Eyes. I mean, was that essentially all in his mind? Was he already experiencing some other alternate reality? Did he truly physically go back in time? But really it's how Eloise was there.
As for everything else she knows, I've come to the conclusion that we got the one line answer to that from "The Variable" -- because she shoots her own unborn son in the past, 1977. Basically, Eloise is able to deduce and extrapolate everything that she does about the future (along with what I think is lots of practical research) because she figures out all of the many steps of events that would have HAD to occur in order to have her 30-something son from 2004 travel back in time 30 years to be in the spot where she would kill him in 1977 before she's even yet given birth to him (though already pregnant with him at the time).

This one significant event in what's her present in 1977 and how it was allowed to happen is how she was able to know so much about future events as she went along over the years.



Re: the Dharma food drop -- D&C said coyley in an interview several weeks ago that it's quite likely we'd get the answer to that, but not within the confines of the actual broadcasted how. So, maybe that'll be one of the factual bones they throw us in the course of talking about some of their idea processes (but not all) sometime a little while after the finale airs, which I mentioned a couple days ago they said WOULD indeed be happening.

That makes sense about 1977, but yeah it was mostly her awareness in Desmond's flashes, both in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" and "Happily Ever After".

And yeah, with the Cabin I have come to the reasonable assumption that it was Smokey, but he seemed to be able to leave the Cabin despite the ash being there.

[uro55]

Why do people care SO much about the outrigger scene????? In the pantheon of all things Lost, WHO GIVES A SHIT! I find it comical that some people are getting their panties in a bunch about it lol:)

[junior94]

Why do people care SO much about the outrigger scene????? In the pantheon of all things Lost, WHO GIVES A SHIT! I find it comical that some people are getting their panties in a bunch about it lol:)

Well first, speaking for myself at least, I don't care "SO much" about the thing, for me it's been more of one of the smaller side mysteries that I just found especially interesting. But even still, I cared to the level I do because I'd presumed that they wrote in that action occurring to begin with because there was a fairly significant point to it, why else stick it in there. So I assumed it taking place and who was responsible for it had some meaning. And, according to their interview answer, apparently it DID have some meaning, just I guess not quite enough. They say they knew as they wrote it who the shooters were, and in theory they'd wanted to reveal it, but they felt when mapping this season they could never find a way to organically fit it in, that every idea they had felt like it would've been "shoehorned" into the current narrative.

Once again the aforementioned talking that D&C will be doing about the show shortly after the season is done, where they'll discuss some mysteries, I'd really like to believe that that will be one of the facts they divulge. Just for curiosity's sake (because even though it obviously didn't have much of an overall impact in the actual story -- which, officially can that theory that Juliet winds up unknowingly shooting and killing Sawyer on the other end).

[Beebz]

I just think you're misunderstanding me.

In my view, I do not see the answers as presented as ambiguous. I didn't see them as given directly, but I saw the answers clearly making them not ambiguous and because of that I do see these as the writer's answers and intentions.

Hmmm, ok. What answers do you think we've been given, particularly last episode?

For me personally, I don't really care about half those questions (and I am not attacking you for asking those because they are legitimate). The ones I do care about from past seasons are mostly:

-The cabin stuff
-Eloise Hawking and her ability to know all
-The Statue (though I don't really care that much seeing as it probably just was the Egyptians, it is just that I swear I remember the writers saying we would see it built and that is all I really want form it, to see it built)


I think the cabin is smokey. I dont think there's any doubt about that.

As for Hawking, yeah, we need to know a lot more about that, particularly the Lamppost and how that's a Dharma Station/way back to the island. The statue I could take or leave. There was a lot of island happenings I wish we would have gotten as glimpse at during Ab Aeterno or Across the Sea. One of those two eps needed a montage.

Why do people care SO much about the outrigger scene????? In the pantheon of all things Lost, WHO GIVES A SHIT! I find it comical that some people are getting their panties in a bunch about it lol:)

Because its emblematic of a lot of things on LOST. It, like so many other interesting scenes/events in the series' history, was introduced and then never resolved, seemingly for no reason. Before this scene, Libby's story was the poster child for this particular gripe.

In short, the outrigger scene encapsulates a lot of the criticisms fans have with the story.

[uro55]

Because its emblematic of a lot of things on LOST. It, like so many other interesting scenes/events in the series' history, was introduced and then never resolved, seemingly for no reason. Before this scene, Libby's story was the poster child for this particular gripe.

In short, the outrigger scene encapsulates a lot of the criticisms fans have with the story.

What? You're mad about not knowing the answer because your mad about not knowing other answers?

[JacobLovesYou]

i think the cabin mysteries are guaranteed to be answered.

[thebridge15]

Why do people care SO much about the outrigger scene????? In the pantheon of all things Lost, WHO GIVES A SHIT! I find it comical that some people are getting their panties in a bunch about it lol:)Yea, I don't even know what this outrigger thing is.

Sidenote, I started referring to MiB as Aaron when Brian was leading the charge of people sarcastically thinking that MiB would be someone ridiculous, like AnaL.

[JacobLovesYou]

What? You're mad about not knowing the answer because your mad about not knowing other answers?

no, what he's saying is that the outrigger scene is now the poster-child for issues that D&C introduced and never explained. same with libby's backstory, and the food drops.

[uro55]

, like AnaL.

AnaL, now that's something/someone I can get behind getting irrationall pissed about lol. That bitch was a turd ha ha. I was re-watching season 2 a while back and I remember how happy I was when Michael put a cap in her ass:thumbsup

[uro55]

no, what he's saying is that the outrigger scene is now the poster-child for issues that D&C introduced and never explained. same with libby's backstory, and the food drops.

I guess to each their own I guess then. Cause I couldn't care less about those things, they're meaningless to the story as a whole.

[thebridge15]

no, what he's saying is that the outrigger scene is now the poster-child for issues that D&C introduced and never explained. same with libby's backstory, and the food drops.Can someone explain what the outrigger scene is?

[JacobLovesYou]

Yea, I don't even know what this outrigger thing is.

Sidenote, I started referring to MiB as Aaron when Brian was leading the charge of people sarcastically thinking that MiB would be someone ridiculous, like AnaL.

happens in "the little prince" from season 5. as they're jumping through time, sawyer, juliet, daniel, miles, locke, and charlotte come across 2 outriggers on the beach, one with an ajira water bottle showing they were in 2007. they take one of the outriggers into the ocean because they are going to sail around the island and part way there they start getting shot at by a group of people in the second outrigger. juilet stands up and fires back and hits one of them and then the scene flashes and its nighttime. so that scene took play sometime during the current island timeline from this year.

[thebridge15]

I guess to each their own I guess then. Cause I couldn't care less about those things, they're meaningless to the story as a whole.But what they're saying is, why even bring it up in the first place? Why waste bringing up a question if you could spend that time answering another one? They've dug themselves so much into a hole that they can't answer all of the questions, but that was their fault in the first place.

[hbktonyb]

I'd love to hear people's theories if you're willing to take a stab:

Is Claire dead?
No, she's like Sayid.
What's with the food drops?
Every time Patchy put a code in, an auto-food drop would happen.
Who built the statue?
Who cares? Someone before the black rock but after the original Jacob timeline.
Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?
Who cares.
Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?
Who cares.
Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?
Who cares.
Who is Penny's mother?
Who cares.
Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?
Smokie hid it because the Losties weren't ready for that level of freakiness.
Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?
Who cares.
Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?
It would end the world.
Why does Walt have special powers?
Now this I really want to know.
Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)
Juliet is dead, but alive in the alternate timeline, where she will meet James and live happily ever after.
What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?
Someone before the black rock.
Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?
No.


There ya go.

[thebridge15]

happens in "the little prince" from season 5. as they're jumping through time, sawyer, juliet, daniel, miles, locke, and charlotte come across 2 outriggers on the beach, one with an ajira water bottle showing they were in 2007. they take one of the outriggers into the ocean because they are going to sail around the island and part way there they start getting shot at by a group of people in the second outrigger. juilet stands up and fires back and hits one of them and then the scene flashes and its nighttime. so that scene took play sometime during the current island timeline from this year.Whidmore's people?

[thebridge15]

There ya go.Sayid's dead though...

[uro55]

But what they're saying is, why even bring it up in the first place? Why waste bringing up a question if you could spend that time answering another one? They've dug themselves so much into a hole that they can't answer all of the questions, but that was their fault in the first place.

But what I'm saying is who cares if it doesn't matter in the big picture?

[hbktonyb]

Sayid's dead though...

Like Sayid was before he was dead...evil, but some sense of what is right and wrong.

[hbktonyb]

happens in "the little prince" from season 5. as they're jumping through time, sawyer, juliet, daniel, miles, locke, and charlotte come across 2 outriggers on the beach, one with an ajira water bottle showing they were in 2007. they take one of the outriggers into the ocean because they are going to sail around the island and part way there they start getting shot at by a group of people in the second outrigger. juilet stands up and fires back and hits one of them and then the scene flashes and its nighttime. so that scene took play sometime during the current island timeline from this year.

Yup...really pisses me off that they even introduced a scene that they are not going to explain within the context of the show..

There is going to be a huge outcry from fans, some probably threatening Darlton's life, so they will be forced to do a sitdown where they answer everything, or a book with all mysteries explained, episode by episode.

[water_into_wine]

Hmmm, ok. What answers do you think we've been given, particularly last episode?



Well for the record, I think a lot of the answers we were given may have been taken for granted, but they were significant to have set once and for all:

-Jacob and Smokey were/are brothers
-There was a previous protector before Jacob
-The Light is the "heart" of the island and what needs to be protected (so why the Island is special)
-Smokey has always wanted to leave
-How Jacob became the protector of the island
-Smokey built the Frozen Donkey Wheel to get off the island
-How Smokey became the Smoke Monster (still want to know what that exactly is though)
-Adam and Eve were Smokey and the Mother

Now there are a few other things I think they answered but some people might say it is me going out on a slight limb, but I think also that:

-The rules aren't set in stone. They are arbitrary and can change by the protectors of the island's doing
-Being a candidate makes you "special"
-And a few other random thoughts

[JacobLovesYou]

if sayid had his "light" extinguished by being with locke, it's interesting that he regained it by having his talk with desmond who can withstand the electromagnetic energy.

[water_into_wine]

Yup...really pisses me off that they even introduced a scene that they are not going to explain within the context of the show..

There is going to be a huge outcry from fans, some probably threatening Darlton's life, so they will be forced to do a sitdown where they answer everything, or a book with all mysteries explained, episode by episode.

lol, wut?

No there won't so long as the finale is satisfactory. Most people probably don't care about the outrigger and people should not get that upset by it. Disappointing, yes. Ruing the show, no.

[water_into_wine]

if sayid had his "light" extinguished by being with locke, it's interesting that he regained it by having his talk with desmond who can withstand the electromagnetic energy.

Nice thought :thumbsup

Desmond is the one who brings consciousness to people. Maybe he is able to "spread the light" so to speak?

[thebridge15]

Is Claire dead?No, but she'll die.
What's with the food drops?They don't know, it won't be addressed. Probably it's just a continuation of food drops for Dharma.
Who built the statue?Egyptians.
Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?People can change their names.
Why doesn't Daniel Faraday have a British accent?He didn't grow up around British people.
Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?Would you want a relationship with Charles Whidmore? And Eloise wanted to remove herself from Charles.
Who is Penny's mother?
Why did Christian's body disappear but Locke's did not?Because MiB moved Christian's body so Jack wouldn't find it and be confused.
Why does Miles have a different last name from his father, Dr. Chang?People can change their names.
Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?She had a somewhat bad experience there, killing her son and all.
Why does Walt have special powers?They don't know, it won't be addressed.
Where is Juliet and when will we see her again? (Understanding that, based on that interview with DL+CC, we will never see the conclusion of the outrigger shooting scene)Island, she's dead. FS, she'll come up at some point.
What's the deal with the four-toed statue? If it was really a statue of the Egyptian goddess Taweret, why was it built? Who broke it?The Black Rock broke it when they collided, that was addressed.
Who built the light house? Will the new protector need to build a new light house to spy on new potential candidates?Jacob, and yes.

[Beebz]

What? You're mad about not knowing the answer because your mad about not knowing other answers?

No, because....nevermind.

Well for the record, I think a lot of the answers we were given may have been taken for granted, but they were significant to have set once and for all:

-Jacob and Smokey were/are brothers
-There was a previous protector before Jacob
-The Light is the "heart" of the island and what needs to be protected (so why the Island is special)
-Smokey has always wanted to leave
-How Jacob became the protector of the island
-Smokey built the Frozen Donkey Wheel to get off the island
-How Smokey became the Smoke Monster (still want to know what that exactly is though)
-Adam and Eve were Smokey and the Mother

Now there are a few other things I think they answered but some people might say it is me going out on a slight limb, but I think also that:

-The rules aren't set in stone. They are arbitrary and can change by the protectors of the island's doing
-Being a candidate makes you "special"
-And a few other random thoughts

First two bolded: OK, but the bigger questions were always "what does being a protector mean," and "what does the wheel do and how?"

Yes, those other questions were answered. And like you said, we probably knew most of them, anyway. What frustrates me are the other questions that were simultaneously raised, mostly revolving around The Mother and the special powers that the protectors seem to have.

Which leads to the second bolded: does being a candidate make you special, or does being special make you a candidate.

[uro55]

No, because....nevermind.



Right on buddy, I don't get it. But like I said in a post above, to each their own.

[JacobLovesYou]

i think being a candidate makes you special.

interesting but pointless thought: lets assume that if you're a candidate that you can't kill yourself, just like how richard etc cant. meaning that when locke was going to hang himself it wasn't going to work but then ben killed him so his ass died. also, jack was going to jump off of the bridge in s3 flash forward and there just happened to be a big car accident behind him that stopped him from jumping.

just a thought. completely pointless and doesn't matter, but it's something i thought of yesterday.

i do want to know how sayid came back to life though if dead is dead. and what connection does the pool in the temple have to do with the water/light at "the source" so that it can save little ben's life and that they thought it could save sayid's as well.

[water_into_wine]

First two bolded: OK, but the bigger questions were always "what does being a protector mean," and "what does the wheel do and how?"

Yes, those other questions were answered. And like you said, we probably knew most of them, anyway. What frustrates me are the other questions that were simultaneously raised, mostly revolving around The Mother and the special powers that the protectors seem to have.

Which leads to the second bolded: does being a candidate make you special, or does being special make you a candidate.

1.) Well, I think we know the answer to that first question now that we know about the light. The Island is special so it ends a protector and they guard the Island's light. I actually think it is like that Harry Potter spell or something where it can be hidden so long as the person who was granted to hold the secret doesn't bring them there. Being protector also makes you ageless, allows you to establish the rules of the Island, etc.

To the other, i guess the question to me was always who built and why? And we got that answer. I don't think we can get a straight-forward answer on how it works just because it was too complicated. FTR, I didn't like the "I just know" part much either, but at the same time them explaining space-time and magnetism doesn't seem plausible and would confuse people. Also I thought it was obvious that it moved the Island.

2.) I think the special powers just come from being protector and I find that to be obvious. Do they really need to say it?

3.) That is something they might like to keep open for debate which isn't too big of a deal with me personally, but I prefer the former.

[sunshower]

You guys were funny with your answers. I should have prefaced my post by saying most of the questions were not mine, some of them were silly ones I pulled from the web. :)

i'll take the two easy ones:

juliet is dead and buried.
the statue was broken by richards ship - the black rock.I still find it very hard to believe that a ship--which ended up in the middle of the jungle--broke a massive rock statue. :freak

I agree with the others who say Juliet is dead but will show up in the FS. I think she is either Jack's wife (otherwise no reason to keep her hidden) or she'll randomly **** into Sawyer and they will make plans to go have coffee.

There are a million of these questions that will spring up after the finale.:thumbsup Completely agree. I hope to look back on it happy that I watched and took part but satisfied no matter all the open items.

Though I don't think Claire is dead at all. Just manipulated.Interesting. I feel like they have painted her to be of the same 'type' as Sayid was before he talked to Desmond.

Why do people care SO much about the outrigger scene????? In the pantheon of all things Lost, WHO GIVES A SHIT! I find it comical that some people are getting their panties in a bunch about it lol:)I care about the outrigger scene because I think it's a brilliant chance to show us that flashing through time in season 5 mattered, that it was important to the overall story that Juliet shot someone and that we will get answers to something other than "what happens to Jack, is he the new Jacob omg?!"

Well first, speaking for myself at least, I don't care "SO much" about the thing, for me it's been more of one of the smaller side mysteries that I just found especially interesting. But even still, I cared to the level I do because I'd presumed that they wrote in that action occurring to begin with because there was a fairly significant point to it, why else stick it in there. So I assumed it taking place and who was responsible for it had some meaning. This.

i think the cabin mysteries are guaranteed to be answered.I really hope you are right.

Why does Eloise Hawking have a different last name than her son Daniel Faraday?People can change their names.

Why doesn't Daniel have a relationship with his father Charles Widmore?Would you want a relationship with Charles Whidmore?

Why didn't Eloise want to return to the Island?[B]She had a somewhat bad experience there, killing her son and all.:lol:lol:lol Hands down, the best answers. You're hilarious, I loved it.

[clcfball11]

That sneakpeak on Hulu looks completely uninteresting lol

[twistedmind1586]

That sneakpeak on Hulu looks completely uninteresting lol

You don't think it's interesting the way Jack is handling Sawyer blaming himself? Sawyer spent the entire season being bitter and blaming Jack for killing Juliet, and now with blood on his hands Jack is trying to comfort him.

Also, the sneak peaks for the last few weeks have all been clips that show up before the title screen even plays during the episode, so it makes sense it's nothing too exciting.

[junior94]

You don't think it's interesting the way Jack is handling Sawyer blaming himself? Sawyer spent the entire season being bitter and blaming Jack for killing Juliet, and now with blood on his hands Jack is trying to comfort him.

Also, the sneak peaks for the last few weeks have all been clips that show up before the title screen even plays during the episode, so it makes sense it's nothing too exciting.

Mind you I'm not necessarily coming down on you myself for this, but FYI, when dealing with the episode "sneak peaks" of like a minute in length (as opposed to the episode promos, although those aren't being made with any new footage anymore), I really think you're best to spoiler tag any even partial description of what's been said/done within them.

[jkrue22]

There's another clip that's a little more interesting:

Hurley sees boy Jacob and Jacob takes back the bag of ashes that Hurley took from Ilana... "because they're mine"

[Beebz]

spoiler spoiler

[dh4645]

quit looking at spoilers. u can't wait a few more days?

[Mdimi8vg]

New here so don't know if this has been asked, would anyone else pay to see the finale in a theater? Been going back and forth between the chance of people being loud/annoying/commenting and how awesome it would be because everyone there theoretically should care as much as you