2 minute video you must see

[smellamartin]

http://www.brotherhoodofthelamb.com...amhatespeech.rm (http://www.brotherhoodofthelamb.com/muslimimamhatespeech.rm)

[MonkeySex]

I'm just curious as to why you think we must see this? It's horrible what they are saying but if you think about it, it isn't much more than what hate groups such as the Klu Klutz Klan are saying.

[Kelly1041]

I'm just curious as to why you think we must see this? It's horrible what they are saying but if you think about it, it isn't much more than what hate groups such as the Klu Klutz Klan are saying.Is the Klan causing worldwide terrorism?

[AnyonebutBush]

Could you imagine being some upset that you go as far as blowing yourself up with explosives to prove a point.

[marco j]

Could you imagine being some upset that you go as far as blowing yourself up with explosives to prove a point.


sometimes...yes :freak

[HudmeisterDMB]

extremists, in any religion, are the only ones who are publicized

[faiz2k]

Is the Klan causing worldwide terrorism?
kkk are just a bunch of hitler wannabies. theyhavnt got the brians or the power to cause such wide scale violence.

so the answer no. Its G.dubya.b and his 'scull and bones' secret society of Yale buddies. bush is doing (with great sucess) what hitler did back in ww2. and thats cause wide spread caos on your own doorstep and blame it on someone else and then turn arround and comfort your own ppl by telling them security must be increased to protect the homeland. and thus leading to a martial/police state (anyone who has heard of the patriot act will know exactly what i mean) and total control. The BUSH-ADMINISTRATION are the biggest terrorists to be feared of, not AL-QUEDA(spell_check)


and as for the video. u have to seriously question the legitimacy of the the subtitled translation. and since this would be great cannon fodder for the bush adminstration im surprised that fox news has not covered it. It goes to show that this is BIG TIME FAKE. and thats is why it hasnt surfaced into mainstream media.

[taphntm]

your first post bud
The BUSH-ADMINISTRATION are the biggest terrorists to be feared of

doesn't make sense
Al Queida sent their own people to the United States to get on a plane and blow up buildings and kill as many people as possible. Bush sent troops to kill terrorists who threatened America and people that clearly had the capability to kill many of the citizens of America like you and me. Unfortunately I believe war is justified.

[bdb23]

kkk are just a bunch of hitler wannabies. theyhavnt got the brians or the power to cause such wide scale violence.
Leave me out of this. :D

[faiz2k]

your first post bud


doesn't make sense
Al Queida sent their own people to . . . . . . . . . . . . . what doesnt make sense?

everything u said was b.s that comes straight from the one sided (N)(Vi)ews coverage , of the bush controlled media that get fed into every home that has a box and satellite dish in the western world.

and yes that was my first post but why make light of that fact, and no, im not an american citizen, and yes it is VERY unfortunate that you and half of the US think war was justified and yet the reasons for the justification are itself not justifiable in the mind of the rational human being. your justification is for the protection of americans, correct? i wonder if you will have the same view when you have your constitutional rights citizenship and freedom of speech taken away from you. bush must be laughing his ass of back at the white house because not only is going to screwing you and million other americans in the ass you and the million others are sticking your hands up and volunteering to pull your pants down bend over for him and his crooks.

[watchtower86]

i dont find the war to be justified like i used to, but i do not see how we are the biggest terrorists in the world. we get attacked, and we attack back, but somehow we're the bad guys? right...

[timmyt23]

and as for the video. u have to seriously question the legitimacy of the the subtitled translation. and since this would be great cannon fodder for the bush adminstration im surprised that fox news has not covered it. It goes to show that this is BIG TIME FAKE. and thats is why it hasnt surfaced into mainstream media.
Not necessarily a fake. That video was no different than thousands of other ones that have a Musilim person telling their followers to kill Jews and Americans. It's not exactly a secret how extremists feel about the USA.

[faiz2k]

Not necessarily a fake. That video was no different than thousands of other ones that have a Musilim person telling their followers to kill Jews and Americans. It's not exactly a secret how extremists feel about the USA. a thousand you say? it would be more believable if you exaggerated realistically. yes there are radical muslims out there but they are and always will be a minority despised in minds of peaceful moderate muslims so get a grip. that video showed ppl at an ordinary friday prayer with subtitles that have no relevance to what is being spoken by the imam(guy leading the prayers).

and what does not necessarily a fake mean exactly? to me it means you cant prove its real so you decide what the hell it must be real since it is another reason to justify the the recent illegal attacks but who cares about the reliability of the source.

the fact is that IT IS A FAKE untill you can PROVE thats its not fake.
not the other way around i.e IT IS REAL untill you can PROVE its not real.

[Davenumber40]

Not necessarily a fake. That video was no different than thousands of other ones that have a Musilim person telling their followers to kill Jews and Americans. It's not exactly a secret how extremists feel about the USA.

Didn't you know it's not politically correct to say musilims hate Jews and Americans? They really just want to be left alone.

[faiz2k]

Didn't you know it's not politically correct to say musilims hate Jews and Americans? They really just want to be left alone.
i couldnt have put it better myself. im tired of this thing that western world want to do which is by force impose there so called democratic system of running a country. look what is happening in iraq. how is it anybody elses business how another country chooses to run itself whether it be a democracy or capitalism or communism or dictatorship or anarchistic society. america does not have a right to do this to a islamic country like iraq. arab countries and islam has there own system of running and that is not by people or government but by islam and by the teachings of the quran ( btw what i just said here is in the media is considered as a an extremist view which really pisses people off and then they wonder why people are blowing themselves up. DO YOU THINK ITS EXTREMIST? LET ME KNOW WITH GOOD REASON). and although democracy is similar to the islamic way it is not exactly the IDEAL way for a islamic society. at the end muslims just want to left alone and live by their laws and not by american ones. america gets to have their "patriotic state" so why cant the middle east have their islamic state?. stop imposing your laws in this facist totalitarian way. bush/hitler resemblance anyone?

[saygoodbye12]

how is it anybody elses business how another country chooses to run itself whether it be a democracy or capitalism or communism or dictatorship or anarchistic society.
:lol :lol

[faiz2k]

:lol :lol
im glad i made you laugh but exactly what was so funny since that was not the intention unless ur a some pubescent teenager who is very easily cracks up at almost anything then dont worry?

[Jake]

kkk are just a bunch of hitler wannabies. theyhavnt got the brians or the power to cause such wide scale violence.

so the answer no. Its G.dubya.b and his 'scull and bones' secret society of Yale buddies. bush is doing (with great sucess) what hitler did back in ww2. and thats cause wide spread caos on your own doorstep and blame it on someone else and then turn arround and comfort your own ppl by telling them security must be increased to protect the homeland. and thus leading to a martial/police state (anyone who has heard of the patriot act will know exactly what i mean) and total control. The BUSH-ADMINISTRATION are the biggest terrorists to be feared of, not AL-QUEDA(spell_check)


and as for the video. u have to seriously question the legitimacy of the the subtitled translation. and since this would be great cannon fodder for the bush adminstration im surprised that fox news has not covered it. It goes to show that this is BIG TIME FAKE. and thats is why it hasnt surfaced into mainstream media.



priceless, simply priceless. Wipe your mouth... on the sides... you have Kool-aid stains.

[saygoodbye12]

im glad i made you laugh but exactly what was so funny since that was not the intention unless ur a some pubescent teenager who is very easily cracks up at almost anything then dont worry?
:thumbsup

That's me.

Well either that or I found it funny that you think we as a people shouldn't care about other countries...as though it doesn't have an affect on us.

[faiz2k]

:thumbsup

That's me.

Well either that or I found it funny that you think we as a people shouldn't care about other countries...as though it doesn't have an affect on us.
now THAT was priceless. when you say "we" does that include the government? because if it doesnt then your concern is aprreciated but the fact is that you the people have no power to do anything about it. but if it does then you are just brianwashed by the media attention given to the middle east situation that its in some dire need of help when in actual fact it was the US that imposed sanctions in the middle east crippling its economy causing millions to starve and live in poverty. and you expect these people to thankyou for it. dont be so foolish.

[MonkeySex]

your first post bud doesn't make sense
Al Queida sent their own people to the United States to get on a plane and blow up buildings and kill as many people as possible. Bush sent troops to kill terrorists who threatened America and people that clearly had the capability to kill many of the citizens of America like you and me. Unfortunately I believe war is justified.
I last heard that the Iraqi civilian death toll was near 10,000...We're suppose to help these people? (the caualties of war excuse is bullshit) Osama Bin Laden has yet to be found, and there has been no proven connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda (if there is I'd like to hear about it since I haven't kept up with the news lately because its just mostly horse crap about the elections). And I still haven't heard that the United States has found any evidence of any biological or "weapons of mass destruction" programs in Iraq. I agree the war is not justified. They call this the war on terror but the middle east is not the only place in the world where terrosim exists. Chechnya is a good example. If this is the war on terror...what is the United States doing to help fight the terrosim over there? Not much.

[MonkeySex]

how is it anybody elses business how another country chooses to run itself whether it be a democracy or capitalism or communism or dictatorship or anarchistic society. america does not have a right to do this to a islamic country like iraq.
I agree with this. I believe that the U.S. should have not taken it upon themselves to do this alone. I believe the United Nations not the U.S. should have done this.

[trippingbilly12]

I agree with this. I believe that the U.S. should have not taken it upon themselves to do this alone. I believe the United Nations not the U.S. should have done this.


You, my friend, are misled. Noone realizes what the goals of the United Nations are. They are a peacekeeping community, with goals of eliminating poverty, disease, landmines etc. This means that the U.N. does not condone the invasion of another country, especially in the way America did. The U.N. will, however, help once an invasion is complete, (which is where the peacekeeping begins) by coming in with food for Iraqi citizens and shelter etc. The U.N. is not designed to help the U.S. (or anyone) invade.

And by the way, what was the point of this video? All it did was show extremists proclaiming their abject bullshit and convincing people they are right. Was it to prove that people of this nature exist? I could have told you people were doing this in the middle east, its not a big shock to me

[faiz2k]

You, my friend, are misled. Noone realizes what the goals of the United Nations are.
that is the most misled and uneducated definition of the UN i have ever heard of. YOu need to seriously go back and read up on UN and you will realise that its job is a little more then just getting rid of landmines. the UN is not just a "community" as you so innocently put it.. it is an international organisation with set laws. The role of the UN is to settle disputes. to go to war without the the permission of the UN is an illegel act where the punishment is carried out through a court of law called International Court of justice. The fact that the US went without UN permission has actually made a less safer world to live in because if no one says anything about the US going to war then what makes another country to do the same? This is called taking the law into your own hands. In what way is that safe not to mention the current situation in iraq where civil war has actually escalated with an increasing death toll?

[Davenumber40]

I last heard that the Iraqi civilian death toll was near 10,000...We're suppose to help these people? (the caualties of war excuse is bullshit) Osama Bin Laden has yet to be found, and there has been no proven connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda (if there is I'd like to hear about it since I haven't kept up with the news lately because its just mostly horse crap about the elections). And I still haven't heard that the United States has found any evidence of any biological or "weapons of mass destruction" programs in Iraq. I agree the war is not justified. They call this the war on terror but the middle east is not the only place in the world where terrosim exists. Chechnya is a good example. If this is the war on terror...what is the United States doing to help fight the terrosim over there? Not much.

I think war on terror certainly inlcudes Iraq, even if it didn't have weapons of mass destruction. Did Saddam terrorize his own people? Did Saddam terrorize his neighbors? He used weapons of mass destruction both on his own people and on foriegn nations. Are we supposed to just wait until he does it again and say, "Sorry Kuwait, we knew he'd do it again but it takes doing it several times to get the international community to act in a decisive manner"?

[faiz2k]

im not condoning anything that saddam did or "allegedly" had done and "allegedly" had in his possession but before you go around trying to fix up other countries i suggest you open your eyes and take a look at your own first see the amount of destruction and death your country causes around this world. you sell yourselves as the protectors and the deliverer of freedom and accuse other nations of terrorist activity and suppression and yet havnt got a clue what your government the CIA the secret service those who run your country is really up to. there are so many accounts of ppl former CIA operatives confessing unofficially(for their own protection obviously) left right and centre about the the deals the CIA have made with terrorists in recent past including the 9/11 attacks. America just seems to love swimming in sea of hypocrisy and double standards.

[greychris]

what doesnt make sense?

everything u said was b.s that comes straight from the one sided (N)(Vi)ews coverage , of the bush controlled media that get fed into every home that has a box and satellite dish in the western world.

and yes that was my first post but why make light of that fact, and no, im not an american citizen, and yes it is VERY unfortunate that you and half of the US think war was justified and yet the reasons for the justification are itself not justifiable in the mind of the rational human being. your justification is for the protection of americans, correct? i wonder if you will have the same view when you have your constitutional rights citizenship and freedom of speech taken away from you. bush must be laughing his ass of back at the white house because not only is going to screwing you and million other americans in the ass you and the million others are sticking your hands up and volunteering to pull your pants down bend over for him and his crooks.

:lol I love this forum because it always makes me feel better reading these wonderful conspiracy theories.

[faiz2k]

and stop pretending like you really give a crap about the "poor people of iraq and the oppression they suffer" because no one with even a single brain cell actully believes that b.s. it makes me really turn in my stomach when i hear the symathetic bs. there are far worse places in the world in far worse dire conditions like poverty and starvation then iraq and yet we dont hear you jumping with joy in wanting to help them do we? i guess why should you since there wont be anything in it for you. if you really gave a shit then you would have lifted the sanctions and let them get on with their lives instead of bombing them all to death.

[jrock5730]

:lol I love this forum because it always makes me feel better reading these wonderful conspiracy theories.


Unfortunately, this is how alot of the Arab world looks at us. Its not a conspiracy theory in their minds. Just goes to show how hated we are as Americans.

[Davenumber40]

and stop pretending like you really give a crap about the "poor people of iraq and the oppression they suffer" because no one with even a single brain cell actully believes that b.s. it makes me really turn in my stomach when i hear the symathetic bs. there are far worse places in the world in far worse dire conditions like poverty and starvation then iraq and yet we dont hear you jumping with joy in wanting to help them do we? i guess why should you since there wont be anything in it for you. if you really gave a shit then you would have lifted the sanctions and let them get on with their lives instead of bombing them all to death.

If you'd like to talk about how we should be in the Sudan, or working to improve Haiti through expanding the middle class or our responsibility to any of a dozen or so Latin American countries I'd love to talk about that. Yes I do "give a crap" about the Iraqis. If you don't believe it that's fine, screw you. I'm not the President I'd love to know how you expect me to lift sanctions.

[MonkeySex]

I think war on terror certainly inlcudes Iraq, even if it didn't have weapons of mass destruction. Did Saddam terrorize his own people? Did Saddam terrorize his neighbors? He used weapons of mass destruction both on his own people and on foriegn nations. Are we supposed to just wait until he does it again and say, "Sorry Kuwait, we knew he'd do it again but it takes doing it several times to get the international community to act in a decisive manner"?So what your saying is that if the U.S. has a feeling about a country invading another country, such as Iraq and Kuwait, that gives the U.S. permission to invade? You said it yourself...

I think war on terror certainly inlcudes Iraq, even if it didn't have weapons of mass destruction.
The thing is there was not enough evidence if any, to justify the U.S. invading Iraq.

[timmyt23]

a thousand you say? it would be more believable if you exaggerated realistically. yes there are radical muslims out there but they are and always will be a minority despised in minds of peaceful moderate muslims so get a grip. that video showed ppl at an ordinary friday prayer with subtitles that have no relevance to what is being spoken by the imam(guy leading the prayers).

and what does not necessarily a fake mean exactly? to me it means you cant prove its real so you decide what the hell it must be real since it is another reason to justify the the recent illegal attacks but who cares about the reliability of the source.

the fact is that IT IS A FAKE untill you can PROVE thats its not fake.
not the other way around i.e IT IS REAL untill you can PROVE its not real.


Where is your proof of these things? I said thousands of other tapes to purposely be an exaggeration. Let me clarify for you. There is no shortage of evidence that certain Muslim extremists publicly state their hatred of the USA. If you took that literally, you need to read up on how to read into things a bit more. You need to calm down, and by the way, you might make a more convincing argument if you used punctuation and grammar, newbie.

[Davenumber40]

So what your saying is that if the U.S. has a feeling about a country invading another country, such as Iraq and Kuwait, that gives the U.S. permission to invade? You said it yourself...


The thing is there was not enough evidence if any, to justify the U.S. invading Iraq.

I'm saying that Saddam's history of agression against his neighbors and his refusal to cooperate with the international community warrant invasion. The international community put him on a short leash after the Gulf war for a reason: he's dangerous. Then when he quit following the rules laid out for him are we just supposed to let him do whatever he wants? There has to be a consequence beyond launching a few cruise missles or other rouge states will not take the US or the UN seriously.

[marco j]

I'm saying that Saddam's history of agression against his neighbors and his refusal to cooperate with the international community warrant invasion. The international community put him on a short leash after the Gulf war for a reason: he's dangerous. Then when he quit following the rules laid out for him are we just supposed to let him do whatever he wants? There has to be a consequence beyond launching a few cruise missles or other rouge states will not take the US or the UN seriously.


even when we supplied the nerve agent he used to gas his people?!?

the simple truth is Iraq is a place to make money right now. anyone who believes it has anything to do with the 'war on terror ' is slow.

there are plenty of other country's that would fit nicely into 'the war on terror'. ad as a matter of fact it would have looked even better if we showed
the unthinkable and actually invaded some country that noone gives a shit about just to make the population free! but of course we didn't , where would we profit from that. try and deny it if it makes you feel better.

[MonkeySex]

I'm saying that Saddam's history of agression against his neighbors and his refusal to cooperate with the international community warrant invasion.
Germany has a history of aggression against their neighbors...should the U.S. invade them? Or what about Japan? Or England?

Then when he quit following the rules laid out for him are we just supposed to let him do whatever he wants?
When did Saddam step outside of the rules laid for him since the Gulf War?

[Davenumber40]

even when we supplied the nerve agent he used to gas his people?!?

the simple truth is Iraq is a place to make money right now. anyone who believes it has anything to do with the 'war on terror ' is slow.

there are plenty of other country's that would fit nicely into 'the war on terror'. ad as a matter of fact it would have looked even better if we showed
the unthinkable and actually invaded some country that noone gives a shit about just to make the population free! but of course we didn't , where would we profit from that. try and deny it if it makes you feel better.

Just because there are many countries we could go to doesn't mean Iraq wasn't worthy of our attention. Liberals already complain that we are over committed. I'm sure they really wanted was for us to choose two other countries besides Iraq. And I'm sure if we invaded Haiti instead to clean up that country all you liberals would be perfectly content to not criticize. Put me in the slow category because I actually think the President believes he is doing the right thing in Iraq.

*edit* Where exactly are we making this money. It's easy to throw around something like this but where exactly is your proof?

Germany has a history of aggression against their neighbors...should the U.S. invade them? Or what about Japan? Or England?


When did Saddam step outside of the rules laid for him since the Gulf War?

I'm sorry let me be more specific: Saddam Hussien has a history of aggression. No I do not want to invade Germany or Japan or England.

He stepped out of bounds when he expelled UN weapons inspectors. What reason could he possibly have for doing that...

[marco j]

[QUOTE=Davenumber40]Just because there are many countries we could go to doesn't mean Iraq wasn't worthy of our attention. Liberals already complain that we are over committed. I'm sure they really wanted was for us to choose two other countries besides Iraq. And I'm sure if we invaded Haiti instead to clean up that country all you liberals would be perfectly content to not criticize. Put me in the slow category because I actually think the President believes he is doing the right thing in Iraq.

*edit* Where exactly are we making this money. It's easy to throw around something like this but where exactly is your proof?



see here's my proof of you being slow!
*edit* Where exactly are we making this money. It's easy to throw around something like this but where exactly is your proof?


...um WE ARE PAYING FOR IT! YES US THE TAX PAYERS!

don't you think the company's who get payed to "rebuild " Iraq ?!
of course they do with the money congress approves.
what's the figure now?!? they just approved another 12billion recently.

we the tax payers pay for this war not only with money but with our soldiers.
the people who own these company's and there stock profit greatly from this
Iraqi freedom.

if you think for a second i'm going to think money wasn't the reason for this war , you are slower than i thought you were!

by the way Liberal is a great word you should go look it up and come back here and tell me it isn't something you wouldn't want to be.

i approve of relief efforts for haiti and many other regions.

[MonkeySex]

I'm sorry let me be more specific: Saddam Hussien has a history of aggression. No I do not want to invade Germany or Japan or England.

He stepped out of bounds when he expelled UN weapons inspectors. What reason could he possibly have for doing that...
Saddam does have a HISTORY of aggresion. What I'm getting at is since the Gulf War, Saddam has not created any reason for an invasion. Since the Gulf War, Saddam has not shown any aggression whatsoever to any of Iraq's neighboring countries. And sure he expelled the U.N. expectors...does it give reason for an invasion...I don't know, but the things is the U.N. and not the U.S. should have invaded. But the reasoning for the U.N. not invading Iraq is because there is not enough evidence to invade. The U.N. expectors have no evidence of a "weapons of mass destruction" programs, neither does the U.S. You would figure after about a year and a half if there were any "weapons of mass destruction" programs the U.S. would have found them by now and would have proudly displayed that they had found such programs, so they can give justification for their invasion.

[Davenumber40]

see here's my proof of you being slow!
*edit* Where exactly are we making this money. It's easy to throw around something like this but where exactly is your proof?


...um WE ARE PAYING FOR IT! YES US THE TAX PAYERS!

don't you think the company's who get payed to "rebuild " Iraq ?!
of course they do with the money congress approves.
what's the figure now?!? they just approved another 12billion recently.

we the tax payers pay for this war not only with money but with our soldiers.
the people who own these company's and there stock profit greatly from this
Iraqi freedom.

if you think for a second i'm going to think money wasn't the reason for this war , you are slower than i thought you were!

by the way Liberal is a great word you should go look it up and come back here and tell me it isn't something you wouldn't want to be.

i approve of relief efforts for haiti and many other regions.

I am asking you for evidence. Not just that American companies are participating in the rebuilding. It's easy to say, "Well we went for companies to profit, but you've yet to even name a compnay much less why George Bush would be interested in giving up political ground to help them. Of course it's all one great right wing conspiricy. :rolleyes: As for being a liberal, who's to say I don't have all of those qualities and who's to say Hillary Clinton does. Sure she calls herself a liberal. I can call myself a UK basketball player but that doesn't mean I fit the dictionary definition. The way we use the terms liberal and conservative in American politics are not the way they are defined in the dictionary. What about the President's spending is conservative? Is he not a conservative though?


Saddam does have a HISTORY of aggresion. What I'm getting at is since the Gulf War, Saddam has not created any reason for an invasion. Since the Gulf War, Saddam has not shown any aggression whatsoever to any of Iraq's neighboring countries. And sure he expelled the U.N. expectors...does it give reason for an invasion...I don't know, but the things is the U.N. and not the U.S. should have invaded. But the reasoning for the U.N. not invading Iraq is because there is not enough evidence to invade. The U.N. expectors have no evidence of a "weapons of mass destruction" programs, neither does the U.S. You would figure after about a year and a half if there were any "weapons of mass destruction" programs the U.S. would have found them by now and would have proudly displayed that they had found such programs, so they can give justification for their invasion.

Saddam will use weapons once he gets them. He's illustrated that repeatedly. We gave him a list of things he had to do when we left him in power he has violated our agreement. As I said before what reason would he have to expell inspectors? If we were to let him violate our demands and the UN's demands we would both lose all our legitimacy.

[faiz2k]

Of course it's all one great right wing conspiricy. :rolleyes: the only GREAT right wing conspiracies are the 9/11 attacks being blamed on al-queda. This is the biggest conspiracy after Hitlers blaming the reichstag fire on the communists.
not to mention building 7 and the steel structures of the twin towers collapsing due to fire when there actually there wasnt enough heat to do so, not to mention the well known fact that no steel structured building in the history of construction on the face of this earth has ever collapsed due to raging fire.
This IS a conspiracy because the government still cant find evidence even after 3yrs. Maybe the reason for that is because they got rid of it by shipping it to china and selling it as scrap metal ?(which was illegal but grossly and very conveniently overlooked). hmm why would you get rid of evidence when you can use it to further backup your own story and prove the plane really actually caused the tower to collapse?

Oh and what ever happened to FLIGHT 77 and how conveniently not single photograph came out of the plane before it vanished into thin air and after damaging the only part of the building that had been evacuated for renovations when in actual fact this so called plane, which not a trace of the 66 ton of metal could be recovered from the wreckage btw, nor a singe photograph be shown of the event. Considering the pentagon being the most secure place on earth, this "plane" when tracked on radar dad done a whole swerve and gone around the pentagon since it was coming from the other side of the pentagon where if it had crashed it would have hit rumsfields office. No large wreckage, no bodies, ppl in suit n tie picking up bits of metal pieces, more ppl in casual clothes sweeping the front lawn of pentagon for small pieces before the fire service and the instigators arrive. so what the hell is all that about. Secrecy is a good sign of guilt and a even greater sign of suspicious activity.





Saddam will use weapons once he gets them. He's illustrated that repeatedly. We gave him a list of things he had to do when we left him in power he has violated our agreement. As I said before what reason would he have to expell inspectors? If we were to let him violate our demands and the UN's demands we would both lose all our legitimacy. actually Davennumber40 if u watch anything other then fox/nbc/abc and other tabloid style coverage then you will know that Tony Blair actually publicly announced at a conference in bristol, UK that he was wrong about the WMD and that he realises that Saddam in actual fact does not have any after all.





As I said before what reason would he have to expell inspectors? Saddam wasnt the one that denied inspectors access. it was the US that pulled out of the inspection process, illegally going against UN permission which resulted in the illegal war. Not to mention that HansBlix couldn't find anything in the 1st place.

[faiz2k]

this was quite funny which i missed the 1st time around...
If we were to let him violate our demands and the UN's demands we would both lose all our legitimacy. you are totally right and thats exactly why you have a nation of illegitimate leaders. you have the ability to realise the difference between righ and wrong in others so try applying the same laws to yourself and see what result you get.

[MonkeySex]

Saddam will use weapons once he gets them. He's illustrated that repeatedly. We gave him a list of things he had to do when we left him in power he has violated our agreement. As I said before what reason would he have to expell inspectors? If we were to let him violate our demands and the UN's demands we would both lose all our legitimacy.
:BANG Ok...again once I'm getting at is there is no evidence of any weapons which most likely means...there are no weapons. You would think that after 15 or so years of inspections, and one and a half years of an invasion, the U.N. and the U.S. would have the least bit of evidence of any such weapons. There has been no evidence of Saddam ever having weapons, since the Gulf War. And just because he might use the weapons, if he ever got any, does not warrant an invasion. There has to be evidence to warrant an invasion. Since the Gulf War, when has Saddam illustrated that he would use weapons? If you would start using facts and evidence to back your argument, maybe I can change my mind, but you are only giving suspicions and heresay.

[saygoodbye12]

:BANG Ok...again once I'm getting at is there is no evidence of any weapons which most likely means...there are no weapons. You would think that after 15 or so years of inspections, and one and a half years of an invasion, the U.N. and the U.S. would have the least bit of evidence of any such weapons. There has been no evidence of Saddam ever having weapons, since the Gulf War. And just because he might use the weapons, if he ever got any, does not warrant an invasion. There has to be evidence to warrant an invasion. Since the Gulf War, when has Saddam illustrated that he would use weapons? If you would start using facts and evidence to back your argument, maybe I can change my mind, but you are only giving suspicions and heresay.
What evidence would you like? He did it once, I would say that's pretty damn good evidence he would use them again. Does he have to send a nuke to Israel for you to finally say, oh ok now I believe he will use them, let's take action!

There wasn't 15 years of inspections. He shut them out for quite a while. In the late 90's it was believed he had WMD's. Remember when we bombed those aspirin factories in order to "send him a message"?

[MonkeySex]

What evidence would you like? He did it once, I would say that's pretty damn good evidence he would use them again. Does he have to send a nuke to Israel for you to finally say, oh ok now I believe he will use them, let's take action!

There wasn't 15 years of inspections. He shut them out for quite a while. In the late 90's it was believed he had WMD's. Remember when we bombed those aspirin factories in order to "send him a message"?
Holy crap...do you guys even read the posts??? I'm not questioning the fact that he might or might not use them. I'm questioning if he has the weapons to do so. I would like evidence if he has the weapons. I swear to god, I might as well just talk to a brick wall. READ THE POSTS!!


In the late 90's it was believed he had WMD's.
yes...it was BELIEVED. That is not evidence. That is suspicion. Two completely different things.

[MonkeySex]

Plus it would be kind of hard to nuke Israel without WMD, now wouldn't it?

[saygoodbye12]

Holy crap...do you guys even read the posts??? I'm not questioning the fact that he might or might not use them.

Do you read your own?

Since the Gulf War, when has Saddam illustrated that he would use weapons?

[MonkeySex]

I was refering to your post...thats why I had it quoted.

[saygoodbye12]

I was refering to your post...thats why I had it quoted.
And I was responding to yours, in which YOU ASKED THE QUESTION.

This really isn't complicated.

[MonkeySex]

And I was responding to yours, in which YOU ASKED THE QUESTION.

This really isn't complicated.
You still don't get it? Do you need me to break it down for you since it seems you are having such a hard time doing so? I am arguing the fact that the U.S. had no reason to go into Iraq and that there is no evidence of Saddam having weapons. Are you still with me here? What I meant by...
Since the Gulf War, when has Saddam illustrated that he would use weapons?Was that if he had them...he would have probably have used them.
And what I meant by...
I'm not questioning the fact that he might or might not use them.
was that once again...I am arguing the fact that the U.S. had no reason to go into Iraq and that there is no evidence of Saddam having weapons.

:BANG :BANG :BANG

[marco j]

[QUOTE=Davenumber40]I am asking you for evidence. Not just that American companies are participating in the rebuilding. It's easy to say, "Well we went for companies to profit, but you've yet to even name a compnay much less why George Bush would be interested in giving up political ground to help them. Of course it's all one great right wing conspiricy. :rolleyes: As for being a liberal, who's to say I don't have all of those qualities and who's to say Hillary Clinton does. Sure she calls herself a liberal. I can call myself a UK basketball player but that doesn't mean I fit the dictionary definition. The way we use the terms liberal and conservative in American politics are not the way they are defined in the dictionary. What about the President's spending is conservative? Is he not a conservative though?



what evidence do you want??? we ok'd the money and sent Haliburton to work. what don't you get. peopl make a lot of money from wars. and since THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF WMD'S AND NO LINKS TO AL QUEDA. i think it is safe to believe in all probability the right wing hawks thought they could pin 9/11 on saddam and america would fall for it. wow that's such a conspiracy i better call oliver stone! :rolleyes: geez dude it's not that far fetched.

[Davenumber40]

You still don't get it? Do you need me to break it down for you since it seems you are having such a hard time doing so? I am arguing the fact that the U.S. had no reason to go into Iraq and that there is no evidence of Saddam having weapons. Are you still with me here? What I meant by...
Was that if he had them...he would have probably have used them.
And what I meant by...

was that once again...I am arguing the fact that the U.S. had no reason to go into Iraq and that there is no evidence of Saddam having weapons.

:BANG :BANG :BANG

And I'm saying we can't wait until he has them. We couldn't be sure if he did have them because after several years of inspections he correctly guessed that the international community would not want to take serious action again. He started hampering inspections and preventing inspectors from fully doing their jobs. When they was not a tangible response for those actions, he expelled inspectors entirely. Now, we have a rouge dictator who has terrorized the region and who we have no idea if he has or is aquiring weapons of mass destruction. He should have been taken out about '98 but we didn't want to do it. 9/11 awoke the US to the danger of allowing known terrorists to operate and waiting for them to attack us before we respond. Under what you have stated I'm guessing we'd have to wait until he used them to take any action against him.
He may have never gotten WMD's again. He may have just stayed within his country terrorizing his population for the rets of his life. I'm saying we couldn't take the chance. 9/11 showed us what happens when we are oblivious to the world around us. What if we don't attack now, he aquires WMD's, and then invades Kuwait again? Then we'd have a real mess on our hands. And I think that'd be one of the better scenarios.

*edit*
This is what scares me:
Since the Gulf War, when has Saddam illustrated that he would use weapons?

So we have to wait until he attacks Israel or Kuwait again before we do anything? What are we supposed to say to these countries if it were to happen?

[faiz2k]

9/11 showed us what happens when we are oblivious to the world around us.
what are you talking about? there is still no solid evidence of who really carried out the 9/11 attacks. just because mainstream media decide not to cover it doesn't mean its gonna be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to. unless you have magically found evidence that unequivocally proves al-quaeda was behind it in which case please share it with us. If you cant back up what you say with proof then your statements become invalid and therfore completely meaningless.

[Davenumber40]

what are you talking about? there is still no solid evidence of who really carried out the 9/11 attacks. just because mainstream media decide not to cover it doesn't mean its gonna be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to. unless you have magically found evidence that unequivocally proves al-quaeda was behind it in which case please share it with us. If you cant back up what you say with proof then your statements become invalid and therfore completely meaningless.

How can I even respond to this?

[saygoodbye12]

what are you talking about? there is still no solid evidence of who really carried out the 9/11 attacks. just because mainstream media decide not to cover it doesn't mean its gonna be forgotten about no matter how much you wish it to. unless you have magically found evidence that unequivocally proves al-quaeda was behind it in which case please share it with us. If you cant back up what you say with proof then your statements become invalid and therfore completely meaningless.
We all know it was really the jews!!!!!

[MonkeySex]

So we have to wait until he attacks Israel or Kuwait again before we do anything? What are we supposed to say to these countries if it were to happen? Answer this...Has the U.N. weapons inspectors found any such WMD? Has the U.S. found any WMD? It would be awfully hard to attack another nation without any weapons.

[smellamartin]

faiz2k. You are really mistaken about the U.N. Do you honestly believe the U.S. should answer to the U.N? There is no place in our consititution that states we shall answer to the U.N. The best thing for this country is to get out of it. China is a member! Now thats a sharp contradiciton to what you see as a legitimate organization. We all know of the crimes against humanity that simply have been ignored by the U.N. The Constitution is how we Americans are goverened. And don't forget, public servants are sworn to protect and defend the constitution. Not U.N special interest. People do your homework. The U.N. is a corrupt organization with only one objective: To impose an international government. Its no good for any country. How many resolutions were passed at the U.N that were not upheld? The U.N has turned its back to the humanitarian issues all across the world. They simply seek to enroll all nations, to create a one world government. Have your ever read the true account of Micheal New? If not, you should before you so quickly advocate the U.N. Kofi Annan has an agenda of his own. It's not in the interest of humanitarian aid and peace. He has overseen the oil for food program, which has been a disaster drowning in corruption within the U.N.
The video posted is an accurate accont about how many Muslims feel. It's not fake; those types of gatherings advocate hate of Western Civilization. The beheadings in the Middle East are a testimony to the previous. Are you going to suggest the beheadings are fake too? It is true that its conducted in the name of islam and Jihad. The Media in America has not served the citizens well. They are too busy with special interest to cover such a video like we are discussing. Open your eyes to the ICC, UNICEF, etc. There could come a day you and I cant have this very conversation,,,which is what the U.N would like from us.

[faiz2k]

How can I even respond to this?

its pretty simple really. all im asking is for you to back up your arguments. the fact that you cant goes to show that you are "talking out of your arse" as they say.

[Davenumber40]

Answer this...Has the U.N. weapons inspectors found any such WMD? Has the U.S. found any WMD? It would be awfully hard to attack another nation without any weapons.

No.
Here's my question to you: Why would Saddam kick inspectors out and prevent them from fully doing their jobs? First he demanded that the American inspectors leave, then he demanded a schedule of where the inspectors planned on going several days in advance.
The enitre reason we set up post-gulf war restrictions was to avoid a situation like this. Saddam was given a second chance, and he went back on the agreement. We chose instead of ousting him to put him on a tight leash to protect neighboring states.
As I said before this should have been taken care of earlier and to be honest it wasn't on my mind pre 9/11. But I think that showed us what happens if we wait for terrorists to strike. We know this guy is a terrorist and he had shown aggression toward his neighbors before. If he had allowed complete inspections there wouldn't be a problem but he has violated international orders for a seoncd time. I think we had to act in a decisive manner this time. Another consequence of not acting is the message it sends to other rouge states: if you just lead us on long enough we'll get bored of dealing with you.
We probably aren't going to agree but maybe we can understand each other. Mainly, I want you to understand I'm not just a crazy hawk but I think this was an important action.

[Davenumber40]

its pretty simple really. all im asking is for you to back up your arguments. the fact that you cant goes to show that you are "talking out of your arse" as they say.

So who was behind 9/11? I'm guessing you're in the 'Bush did it' camp. If that's the case I'm done talking to you. I'd have a better chance of teaching a dog to talk than getting through to someone who would believe that.

[Footestompgp1]

fuck this video. its no different than other nations seeing videos of KKK lynchings here in the US. THere are a great few islamic extremeists that feel this way but most are just like the majority of christians in the world that don't hold grudges so deep that they are willing to a kill an entire nation or race about. Fuck this video

[faiz2k]

We probably aren't going to agree but maybe we can understand each other. Mainly, I want you to understand I'm not just a crazy hawk but I think this was an important action.
We definitly dont agree and i dont think you are crazy. i think you have been the target of your own government propaganda to show fear and hatred of muslims across the world. Yes saddam was a brutal leader America has shown that they are far worse. 15000 Civilians reported killed by military intervention in Iraq and saddam is still alive. that number speaks for itself. 3000 named and identified victims of the war on Iraq. Where is the so called compassion that everyone feels towards this "supressed nation". would the 15000 dead prefered to have died then have lived under the saddam regime? No one seem to be commemorating there deaths.

And yes, there is more evidence of Bush being the guilty party of 9/11 then Saddam or Alquade.

[faiz2k]

you have a seriouly distorted view of the UN purpose. You accuse the UN of imposing an International Government whatever the hell that is. When did you dream this up exactly? i would loe to have a read at their manifesto on this. How about the current situation with the US imposing their form of democracy in Iraq. Is that just and fair? just because it works for them doesnt mean its going to work for the Iraqi ppl.

The video posted is an accurate accont about how many Muslims feel.

NO its not an accurate account of how MANY muslims feel. IS an accurate account of how a MINORTY of currupt missguided group of outcasted musilims feel. The one thats spreading HATE is people like you putting all types muslims in the same basket of eggs. Lets look at the definition of a Terrorist shall we:
ter·ror·ism Audio pronunciation of "terrorism" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-rzm)
n.
the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Funny how your statement "accurate account of how MANY muslims feel" happens to fit into that defintion of Terroist like a key fits into a lock.


It's not fake
I didnt know you spoke arabic?

[faiz2k]

fuck this video. its no different than other nations seeing videos of KKK lynchings here in the US. THere are a great few islamic extremeists that feel this way but most are just like the majority of christians in the world that don't hold grudges so deep that they are willing to a kill an entire nation or race about. Fuck this video
couldnt have put it better myself.

[MonkeySex]

No.
Here's my question to you: Why would Saddam kick inspectors out and prevent them from fully doing their jobs? First he demanded that the American inspectors leave, then he demanded a schedule of where the inspectors planned on going several days in advance.
The enitre reason we set up post-gulf war restrictions was to avoid a situation like this. Saddam was given a second chance, and he went back on the agreement. We chose instead of ousting him to put him on a tight leash to protect neighboring states.
As I said before this should have been taken care of earlier and to be honest it wasn't on my mind pre 9/11. But I think that showed us what happens if we wait for terrorists to strike. We know this guy is a terrorist and he had shown aggression toward his neighbors before. If he had allowed complete inspections there wouldn't be a problem but he has violated international orders for a seoncd time. I think we had to act in a decisive manner this time. Another consequence of not acting is the message it sends to other rouge states: if you just lead us on long enough we'll get bored of dealing with you.
We probably aren't going to agree but maybe we can understand each other. Mainly, I want you to understand I'm not just a crazy hawk but I think this was an important action.
I respect your opinion. I don't think you're crazy. I've presented my arguement and you presented yours. I think we just have to agree to disagree.

[smeee10]

No one wanted to pay attention to the terrorist activity until 9/11, but remember the last 15 years or so? We had the first WTC bombing, Khobar towers, USS Cole, and 9/11. ? Our inaction only emboldened these terrorist cells. They only get stronger when we fail to respond with force, they hope all we want to do is talk.
I'm not gonna lie, I would like for war to be the last thing, but in my opinion, and yes I said OPINION, I would rather go to them than have them come to us, again. And when it comes to the WMD's...can you expect that all these would be in like a WMD-Mart, with inventory marked and signed by Saddam? NO.

[MexicoDMB]

im not condoning anything that saddam did or "allegedly" had done and "allegedly" had in his possession but before you go around trying to fix up other countries i suggest you open your eyes and take a look at your own first see the amount of destruction and death your country causes around this world. you sell yourselves as the protectors and the deliverer of freedom and accuse other nations of terrorist activity and suppression and yet havnt got a clue what your government the CIA the secret service those who run your country is really up to. there are so many accounts of ppl former CIA operatives confessing unofficially(for their own protection obviously) left right and centre about the the deals the CIA have made with terrorists in recent past including the 9/11 attacks. America just seems to love swimming in sea of hypocrisy and double standards.

And you were there for these secret CIA-terrorist meetings? If you weren't then I'm guessing you're getting your information from a biased media, but it just happens that in this case that media is biased in the other direction. If you were there, however, then that means that you're either CIA or a terrorist. Since you're bashing the CIA, and that would be like bashing yourself, it leads me to think that you might be a terrorist (assuming of course, that you WERE in these meetings.) If you were not there, which is probably the most likely scenario, then you're just repeating what someone else spoonfed to you. So in conclusion, your post sucks.


on a sidenote: This video could be a big time fake. at least the first one that shows the guy talking in what seems to be a religious congregation of some sort. Also, if you notice the people's faces in the video where the first guy is talking, they don't seemed to be too riled up, so as far as i'm concerned, they're probably only doing their normal religious rituals. The ones with the guns though, well those i can't explain.

Also, i'm not a US citizen so don't say i'm brainwashed by Bush too... I don't have that type of brainwashing in my country... we have other types.

[smellamartin]

your so bent out of shape about this video ,,,,why? because its an honest account and you don't want the general public to witness it. theres no denying its accuarcy and you simply cant stop people from seeing it. you want all of us to ignore it. im so glad 700 plus here have seen an inside look at what many islamic groups really stand for.

[faiz2k]

your so bent out of shape about this video ,,,,why? because its an honest account and you don't want the general public to witness it. theres no denying its accuarcy and........ im so glad 700 plus here have seen an inside look at what many islamic groups really stand for. 700 ppl have seen it and yet not a single one has nor can actually prove the credibility of the source.
there is no denying its accuracy? this is an honest account? please tell me exactly how you came to this conclusion assuming that you dont speak arabic. my guess is you didnt look further then the video itself.

as i said before this would be great cannon fodder for the american government to show the necessity of the war on terror and win back the votes of those american ppl who opposed the war. so you have to ask yourself why hasnt this been officially released. perhaps because they themselves discovered that the translations dont match up with the the speakers words and that someone who can speak arabic will realise and then who ever released it wll have to answer for it.

[Carbon Copy]

why cant we just let this thread die..please

[smellamartin]

are you a muslim? if so, that would explain alot of your argument.

[QuakerMan]

a thousand you say? it would be more believable if you exaggerated realistically. yes there are radical muslims out there but they are and always will be a minority despised in minds of peaceful moderate muslims so get a grip. that video showed ppl at an ordinary friday prayer with subtitles that have no relevance to what is being spoken by the imam(guy leading the prayers).

and what does not necessarily a fake mean exactly? to me it means you cant prove its real so you decide what the hell it must be real since it is another reason to justify the the recent illegal attacks but who cares about the reliability of the source.

the fact is that IT IS A FAKE untill you can PROVE thats its not fake.
not the other way around i.e IT IS REAL untill you can PROVE its not real.


Yeah sure, your last statement makes perfect sense, just like "guilty until proven innocent" is a fair outlook! Can you translate word for word, what is being stated in the vidoe????

"Let Your Lives Speak"-George Fox
www.sweetjesusIhatebilloreilly.com

[smellamartin]

what more evidence do you need than the koran.....i have a translation of that,,,and the video is exhibit b. don't think people there care about human life and dignity,,,,go to www.ogrish.com (http://www.ogrish.com/) that way you can see the hate for yourself. all the beheadings and hostage videos there. you can see the 12 men from nepal that were slowly killed in the sand in the name of islam. wake up!

[MonkeySex]

your so bent out of shape about this video ,,,,why? because its an honest account and you don't want the general public to witness it. theres no denying its accuarcy and you simply cant stop people from seeing it. you want all of us to ignore it. im so glad 700 plus here have seen an inside look at what many islamic groups really stand for.
Seriously, why are you so intent that everyone has to see this stupid video? Are you trying to persuade people that all Muslims and Islamists hate Americans and people of Jewish decent? If so that is just plain stupid and ignorant. You can't judge an entire race or an entire culture just off of a few people's actions. And to spread this video, saying that everyone has to see it, isn't much better than the people who made this video and the people in the video.

[smellamartin]

i would sincerely like to believe that what you say is true. but there is no denying the fact that they are guided by the Koran. We know what the Koran instructs them to do. Let us not forget 9/11,,,or for that matter the situation that recently happened in a Russian school. all of those acts were from the root of islamic jihad. come on, kill children,,,and you think there all touchy feely about us here? dignity and respect for humanity is null and void as they follow the Koran.

[QuakerMan]

i would sincerely like to believe that what you say is true. but there is no denying the fact that they are guided by the Koran. We know what the Koran instructs them to do. Let us not forget 9/11,,,or for that matter the situation that recently happened in a Russian school. all of those acts were from the root of islamic jihad. come on, kill children,,,and you think there all touchy feely about us here? dignity and respect for humanity is null and void as they follow the Koran.


That's quite a claim you make that the basis for a whole religion, which is followed by billions of people, guides them to commit acts against humanity. I want to see the copy of the Koran that you saw that supports your claims, otherwise....stop making assinine (and downright ignorant) claims and posts that belittle everybodies inteligence. You must be a subscriber to either Rush Limbaughs fan club or have misread something else that Fox news has managed to twist and distort. You know I almost applaud your attempt to enlighten everybodies perspective, however, Please don't be mislead by every little thing that gets you emotionally fired up....PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!! :(

"Let Your Lives Speak"-George Fox
www.sweetjesusIhatebilloreilly.com

[dylanquirt]

your first post bud


doesn't make sense
Al Queida sent their own people to the United States to get on a plane and blow up buildings and kill as many people as possible. Bush sent troops to kill terrorists who threatened America and people that clearly had the capability to kill many of the citizens of America like you and me. Unfortunately I believe war is justified.



wait a minute--Al Queida sent the planes into the buildings? I thought it was Saddam and Iraq....then why are we in Iraq? what happen to that Osama guy?

[smellamartin]

http://www.citizensoldier.org/koranone.html

two independent translations by an Iraqi at the link above

[MonkeySex]

i would sincerely like to believe that what you say is true. but there is no denying the fact that they are guided by the Koran. We know what the Koran instructs them to do. Let us not forget 9/11,,,or for that matter the situation that recently happened in a Russian school. all of those acts were from the root of islamic jihad. come on, kill children,,,and you think there all touchy feely about us here? dignity and respect for humanity is null and void as they follow the Koran.
The situation with the Russian school was not for religious purposes...It was a statement made by extremists demanding freedom for Chechnya. It wasn't even masterminded by someone who follows the Koran. And if you really want to know and want some unbiased info...The Koran gives permission to defend the faith, just like Christianity, just like Judaism. This means that if followers feel they are being persecuted, then they can defend themselves. This does not mean they can freely murder people. The Koran also condemns against suicide. You can't judge an entire race, culture, or religion, just because of a select few actions...it is stupid and ignorant. The extremists and terroists use the Koran in an injustified purpose to try and get people on their side. Once again...You can't judge an entire race, culture, or religion, just because of a few's select actions. If you want to get into this using facts and solid unbiased information (not just one website), I will be glad to (I've got a B.A. in religous studies). Is using three commas really necessary?

[LittleMike]

It sickens me that the most eloquent point in this thread was posted by someone who calls themselves: "MonkeySex"

[coyn113]

its sad to see that much hate exists in the world

[MonkeySex]

It sickens me that the most eloquent point in this thread was posted by someone who calls themselves: "MonkeySex"
Hey man it's a good song.

[smellamartin]

I was under the impression we were having a casual discussion about political issues, not an English Class. Nevertheless, the evidence is before you. Answer one question please. Is the Koran a directive on how Muslims should conduct their lives? Yes or no will be sufficient.

[MonkeySex]

I was under the impression we were having a casual discussion about political issues, not an English Class. Nevertheless, the evidence is before you. Answer one question please. Is the Koran a directive on how Muslims should conduct their lives? Yes or no will be sufficient.
I was under the impression that we were giving educated arguments...

What evidence? One video that has no verification if it is real or not (even if it is, it doesn't mean crap) and one biased website...that doesn't qualify as evidence. And to answer your question...It is up to the individual person whether to surround their life with the Koran, and conduct their life with the Koran being a strong influence, or not. Just like it is up to a person whether to surround themself with the Bible. Now you also got to understand that most of the people living in the Middle East have NOTHING. They have no hope in life, they have no pride in their lives. Most of the people have no jobs and have no opportunities to better their lives. They don't have meaning to their lives, so they find it in religion. That's why there are suicide bomber's and such, because death for them, can't be much worse than their lives now. There are people who conduct their lives by the Koran living in the U.S., now why aren't they killing themselves in the name of Allah? They have jobs, they can feed their family, they have shelter, and they have hope...which gives their lives meaning. And to single out the Koran, saying that the Koran is the only holy book that allows violence, is so wrong. Ever heard of the Crusades? Inquisitions? Abortion office bombings? The Bible allows violence and preaches violence just as much as the Koran does. So to say that the Koran is the root of all the violence and terroism...is wrong. What I'm saying is that it is not the Koran's fault for the extremists actions. I hope that is sufficient.

[smellamartin]

Yes or no would be sufficient. Are you able to do that?

[MonkeySex]

Yes or no would be sufficient. Are you able to do that?
Oh I'm sorry...am I using too big of words for you? Are words that contain more than one syllable too hard to understand? Or are you just too lazy to read? You said we are having a discussion and from what I know, discussions consist of more than one word. I'm just trying to help you understand because you are really coming off ignorant and your post just made it seem you are even more ignorant. Now do you want to continue this discussion, or do you just want me to relpy to your arguments with yes or no words?

[smellamartin]

You can't give a straight forward answer. That's the problem with having a political discussion with you. I'll make it easier for you. If you had to decide today (for any reason) would it be yes or no?

[MonkeySex]

The problem with having a political discussion with you is that you're ignorant and uneducated. Seriously what is the point in arguing with you if you're not going to give educated arguments, and are not willing to look at the other side of the argument? How are my posts not straight forward? Is it because they contain words that are bigger than one syllable? I'm sorry my posts are to complicated for you to understand. You've obviously shown that you don't want to discuss this anymore, or else you would have carried and progressed this discussion. You can't expect a straight forward answer on a subject such as religion. If you're not willing to look at the other side of an argument what is the point in arguing with you? Seek first to understand, then understood. You're a waste of time.




Oh I'm sorry here is a translastion of this post for you...no.

[taphntm]

I last heard that the Iraqi civilian death toll was near 10,000...We're suppose to help these people? (the caualties of war excuse is bullshit) Osama Bin Laden has yet to be found, and there has been no proven connections between Iraq and Al Qaeda (if there is I'd like to hear about it since I haven't kept up with the news lately because its just mostly horse crap about the elections). And I still haven't heard that the United States has found any evidence of any biological or "weapons of mass destruction" programs in Iraq. I agree the war is not justified. They call this the war on terror but the middle east is not the only place in the world where terrosim exists. Chechnya is a good example. If this is the war on terror...what is the United States doing to help fight the terrosim over there? Not much.Let me clarify about my quote... When I said unfortunately war is justified (in my opinion) I was talking about the war against al qaeda. Not the war on Iraq. Also, unless I'm crazy, which in fact is highly likely... but then on the other hand, it's also possible that I'm crazy and right. I remember hearing all the terrorists that were in the planes were a part of al qaeda too.

edit: sorry for the delayed reply :thumbsup

[MonkeySex]

Let me clarify about my quote... When I said unfortunately war is justified (in my opinion) I was talking about the war against al qaeda. Not the war on Iraq. Also, unless I'm crazy, which in fact is highly likely... but then on the other hand, it's also possible that I'm crazy and right. I remember hearing all the terrorists that were in the planes were a part of al qaeda too.

edit: sorry for the delayed reply :thumbsup
That's cool, I agree on the war on terror...I believe it is justified. However, I am against on how the U.S. is carrying out the war on terror.

[taphntm]

Yeah, I believe there are a lot of things the u.s. could do better for the war on terror rather than what we've done to iraq and such. I don't believe we could have made a compromise with anyone, but we could have cleaned up the country a little more neatly than we did possibly. (I'm the type of person that doesn't like to smash a bug against the nice clean window, but rather try and make him fly away.) Maybe we could have targeted authority more than support. Sadaam was not the dictator of Iraq because he had his huge army defeat hundreds of thousands of people, I'm pretty sure. Instead he threatened the leader at the time and said if you don't let me take over then my people will kill you, or something to that extent. I wish we could have just kind of done the same thing and gone to Sadaam and been like, hey... it's over for you unless you let us take over. Of course it's not that easy, but we surely could have done something better. Although, when it's all said and done in iraq it seems it will be a much better place for many of the iraqi citizens.

[jrock5730]

Yeah, I believe there are a lot of things the u.s. could do better for the war on terror rather than what we've done to iraq and such. I don't believe we could have made a compromise with anyone, but we could have cleaned up the country a little more neatly than we did possibly. (I'm the type of person that doesn't like to smash a bug against the nice clean window, but rather try and make him fly away.) Maybe we could have targeted authority more than support. Sadaam was not the dictator of Iraq because he had his huge army defeat hundreds of thousands of people, I'm pretty sure. Instead he threatened the leader at the time and said if you don't let me take over then my people will kill you, or something to that extent. I wish we could have just kind of done the same thing and gone to Sadaam and been like, hey... it's over for you unless you let us take over. Of course it's not that easy, but we surely could have done something better. Although, when it's all said and done in iraq it seems it will be a much better place for many of the iraqi citizens.


Have you seen the outlook for Iraq lately? Its not very promising at all.

[taphntm]

it's not good right now with all the junk going on before the first election, but like I said, when everything's all said and done I think it will be a much better place. It's going to take some time.

[taphntm]

I think it's probably going to be a couple of years before that happens when they get some police.

[smellamartin]

I didn't ask you to look at the "other side of the argument". I asked what you personally believe to be true.