Debates: Round 3

[#34->Raven]

Discuss, starts in 30 seconds

[dmb@uvm]

Yeah sorry Bush but thats the truth that is what you said about Bin Laden.

[KJ.]

Must've been one of those...exaggerations...

[AnyonebutBush]

Yeah sorry Bush but thats the truth that is what you said about Bin Laden.:thumbsup...Well he is going after the stupid people that believe everything he says, it has worked pretty good.

[MarkDMB]

I don't know what to say about his enunciation of "Exaggeration", but damn that made me laugh.

[AnyonebutBush]

I don't know what to say about his enunciation of "Exaggeration", but damn that made me laugh.Welcome to Ants

[MarkDMB]

Welcome to Ants

Thanks. As you can tell by my join date, I've been lurking around for a while. Actually, I got away from Ants for about a year and a half. But it's good to be back.

[AnyonebutBush]

Thanks. As you can tell by my join date, I've been lurking around for a while. Actually, I got away from Ants for about a year and a half. But it's good to be back.I didnt look at the date :BANG ..Welcome back :cool:

[#34->Raven]

bush is one to talk about fiscal sanity

[AnyonebutBush]

I feel bad for undecided Voters. If only they have been paying attention for the past 10 years.

[MarkDMB]

So, does Ted Kennedy really scare the hell out of everyone that he keeps getting used as a put-down?

[#34->Raven]

:lol

a guy who lost his manufacturing jobs is uneducated :freak
thats why he lost his job? hes not educated enough? so you sedn him toa community college to learn how to be a programmer?

huh, i could have sworn it was people in other contries working for 1/100th of the price

[eric_dmbfan03]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html
"So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you."

[WolfmanDMB]

waiting for bush to knock on kerrys wife's business for having outsourced workers...

[eric_dmbfan03]

There's outsourcing going on in the ketchup industry?

[WolfmanDMB]

There's outsourcing going on in the ketchup industry?
thats what i heard...that there are heinz ketchup jobs in other countries

[dmb@uvm]

:lol Did Kerry and Bush call eachother before the debate to see what tie the other was wearing?

[eric_dmbfan03]

Aww, that joke was lame.

[eric_dmbfan03]

thats what i heard...that there are heinz ketchup jobs in other countries
Jeez, I didn't even know there was a "ketchup industry.'

[#34->Raven]

weak excuse of why he wants to outlaw gay marriage

[WolfmanDMB]

bush played that gay thing pretty good...i didnt know that cheneys daughter was gay...also does bush have cerebrial palsy cuz his left side of his face is a little droopy

[eric_dmbfan03]

:lol "Dick Cheney's daughter is a LESBIAN!"
The Daily Show was making fun of them for saying that last week.

[eric_dmbfan03]

That's his Texas smirk.

[AnyonebutBush]

bush played that gay thing pretty good...i didnt know that cheneys daughter was gay...also does bush have cerebrial palsy cuz his left side of his face is a little droopyMy girlfriend is waiting for him to drool

[WolfmanDMB]

My girlfriend is waiting for him to drool i already thought he was cuz in the right corner of his mouth there is some crusty white stuff :lol

[eric_dmbfan03]

Kerry did a good job with the religion thing. "My faith is mine, I don't legislate it on others."

[AnyonebutBush]

i already thought he was cuz in the right corner of his mouth there is some crust white stuff :lolThat stuff was left over from Dick

[eric_dmbfan03]

There's the laugh!

[AnyonebutBush]

Kerry did a good job with the religion thing. "My faith is mine, I don't legislate it on others."You damn right!We dont need any Government telling us who to be and what to do or how to chose. This is America lets keep it that way!

[#34->Raven]

:lol "Dick Cheney's daughter is a LESBIAN!"
The Daily Show was making fun of them for saying that last week.
i know that you and your wife love your....GAY DAUGHTER..., we know that you support your...GAY DAUGHTER...very much


GAY DAUGHTERRRRRRRRRRRRR

:lol

[eric_dmbfan03]

:lol I hope they have a new episode tonight.

[AnyonebutBush]

One sounds like a president. One sounds like a fucking idiot.

[#34->Raven]

they better. i was disapointed on friday when there was no debate recap on the daily show

[OCMarsh]

One sounds like a used car salesman, one sounds like he's drunk

[#34->Raven]

One sounds like a president. One sounds like a fucking idiot. one of these things, is not like the other

[WolfmanDMB]

i know that you and your wife love your....GAY DAUGHTER..., we know that you support your...GAY DAUGHTER...very much


GAY DAUGHTERRRRRRRRRRRRR

:lol
kinda reminds me of the mole bit in the austin powers movie :lol

[OCMarsh]

Bush's smile is creeping me out

[eric_dmbfan03]

Where does Bush get his records on Kerry's voting. It seems like everything he says about the way he voted, Kerry refutes. One of them's lying or spinning something. Wish I knew which was which.

[eric_dmbfan03]

one of these things, is not like the other
:lol :lol "One of these doesn't belong..."

[OCMarsh]

Where does Bush get his records on Kerry's voting. It seems like everything he says about the way he voted, Kerry refutes. One of them's lying or spinning something. Wish I knew which was which.
It's simple: Kerry voted to cut taxes about 600 times and to raise about 100 times.

Bush attacks the raises while Kerry touts the cuts.

[#34->Raven]

most likely spun around

[#34->Raven]

wow....hey bush, wanna talk about tribal soverngty? (sp)

you would probably do better at that then you are doing with this right now

[OCMarsh]

Oh nevermind

[WolfmanDMB]

i was waiting that for bush to say "that medical plan is one hell of a plan...heres the keys to the oval office"

[AnyonebutBush]

Bush's smile is creeping me outSpill beer on his back :thumbsup

[yin_yang]

so whos wimming so far?

[WolfmanDMB]

Spill beer on his back :thumbsup
make sure you dont get the radio receiver all wet

[eric_dmbfan03]

:lol "I don't think it's credible to quote top news organizations--oh wait my campaign does the same thing--nevermind."

[AnyonebutBush]

so whos wimming so far?Who do you think?

[eric_dmbfan03]

Oh, anyone seen a bulge in Kerry or Bush's back?

[#34->Raven]

i was waiting that for bush to say "that medical plan is one hell of a plan...heres the keys to the oval office"
:lol

[AnyonebutBush]

Oh, anyone seen a bulge in Kerry or Bush's back?Not tonight

[OCMarsh]

make sure you dont get the radio receiver all wet
HAHA Yeah I'm thinking the "nevermind" was fed to him by the mic.

"W, stop attacking the news outlets!!", mic.
"uh uh nevermind," Bush.

[WolfmanDMB]

damn kerry is increadibly informed tonight

[eric_dmbfan03]

Bush is doing a helluva lot better with his splitscreen cutaways.

[OCMarsh]

Look at their mics!! Is Kerry really a foot taller than W?

[#34->Raven]

[bush radio reciever] dammit G Dub, keep on track here, don't start trying to do any of that thinking buisness [/bush radio reciever]

[AnyonebutBush]

damn kerry is increadibly informed tonightThe guy can go on and on about American policies, he makes Bush look like a crack dealer.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Update:
ALCS: Red Sox 0, Yankees 1 - Bottom 5th
NLCS: Astros 4, Cardinals 2 - Top 5th

[OCMarsh]

I told you not to wear that red tie!!
Who picked their outfits?

[AnyonebutBush]

Update:
ALCS: Red Sox 0, Yankees 1 - Bottom 5th
NLCS: Astros 4, Cardinals 2 - Top 5ththanx

[WolfmanDMB]

i pay taxes and i didnt get any tax relief

[eric_dmbfan03]

Bush likes to use Kerry's Senate record. Pretty good job on his part.

[#34->Raven]

:lol i laugh ever time bush talks abou fiscal sanity

[mrmora]

I like how Bush basically said I need more education. When he was talking about people losing jobs to outsourcing, he said that he'd pay for a community college education. I guess that graduating w/ honors from a top university isn't enough to keep a software development job. BRING ON COMMUNITY COLLEGE!

[OCMarsh]

i pay taxes and i didnt get any tax relief
I did

2 kids = $$$
wife = $

[AnyonebutBush]

No matter who you vote for, I truely hope that all of us Ants can always enjoy the small things in life, like going to a DMB concert and dance from show to show.

[WolfmanDMB]

Bush likes to use Kerry's Senate record. Pretty good job on his part.
it seems like thats all he uses though. seems like more attacking a record, that is later refuted, then showing his plan.

[#34->Raven]

I like how Bush basically said I need more education. When he was talking about people losing jobs to outsourcing, he said that he'd pay for a community college education. I guess that graduating w/ honors from a top university isn't enough to keep a software development job. BRING ON COMMUNITY COLLEGE!
no, you are un-educated because you lost your job to a person who will work for a fraction of the cost. :freak

[OCMarsh]

Give that pedaphile smile again. Yes!! And again!! Good job!! One more time!
I think Edwards has intercepted the signal

[WolfmanDMB]

I like how Bush basically said I need more education. When he was talking about people losing jobs to outsourcing, he said that he'd pay for a community college education. I guess that graduating w/ honors from a top university isn't enough to keep a software development job. BRING ON COMMUNITY COLLEGE!
this is the jist that i got from what he said: americans are stupid and need more education and i had nothing to do with the job losses

[#34->Raven]

No matter who you vote for, I truely hope that all of us Ants can always enjoy the small things in life, like going to a DMB concert and dance from show to show.
:thumbsup

[eric_dmbfan03]

Yeah, that's all he's got.

[AnyonebutBush]

Bush is very good at understanding the kind of people that support him and what they want to hear.

[#34->Raven]

that smile is freaking me out too

[AnyonebutBush]

:evil :evil :evil that smile is freaking me out too:evil :evil :evil :evil

[OCMarsh]

No matter who you vote for, I truely hope that all of us Ants can always enjoy the small things in life, like going to a DMB concert and dance from show to show.
Always. Things got ugly for a while a couple months ago. But I can always look forward to hanging out at DMB shows spilling my beer. And my $9 green martinis.

[#34->Raven]

its against the law to hire people illegaly

that, um, is true

[WolfmanDMB]

id like to see something about the minimum wage be said. its 5.15 now but to adjust for inflation and to give what people need to survive it needs to be something like 8.50

[WolfmanDMB]

looks like i got it

[AnyonebutBush]

Always. Things got ugly for a while a couple months ago. But I can always look forward to hanging out at DMB shows spilling my beer. And my $9 green martinis.I got lucky at the Gorge this year I ordered 2 beers and a chicken sandwich and gave the girl a $20 and she gave me back $18:multi :multi :multi :multi

[MarkDMB]

id like to see something about the minimum wage be said. its 5.15 now but to adjust for inflation and to give what people need to survive it needs to be something like 8.50

Clairvoiant!!!!!

[OCMarsh]

id like to see something about the minimum wage be said. its 5.15 now but to adjust for inflation and to give what people need to survive it needs to be something like 8.50
min. wage is never an issue for me because Oregon's is so high

[#34->Raven]

id like to see something about the minimum wage be said. its 5.15 now but to adjust for inflation and to give what people need to survive it needs to be something like 8.50
no joke.

5.15 is nothing. I could be getting paid 7.50 to make pizza, and that still is not very much money

[#34->Raven]

what is oregons?

[AnyonebutBush]

id like to see something about the minimum wage be said. its 5.15 now but to adjust for inflation and to give what people need to survive it needs to be something like 8.50Id like to see it to, but not as long as Bush is handing out money.

[WolfmanDMB]

min. wage is never an issue for me because Oregon's is so high
what wage is that?

[OCMarsh]

I got lucky at the Gorge this year I ordered 2 beers and a chicken sandwich and gave the girl a $20 and she gave me back $18:multi :multi :multi :multi
You lucky bastard. For $2 I got a half smile and a "go to hell" from the vendors.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Appealing to the women voters.

[OCMarsh]

what wage is that?
I think it's near 8 now

[WolfmanDMB]

how did we go from min wage -> education, again

[#34->Raven]

I think it's near 8 now
damn. yeah, its still 5.15 most everywhere else

[AnyonebutBush]

You lucky bastard. For $2 I got a half smile and a "go to hell" from the vendors.I had a CIA hat on.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Bob Schieffer owns Jim Lehrer and Charles Gibson.

[WolfmanDMB]

I had a CIA hat on.
that'll do it every time

[OCMarsh]

I had a CIA hat on.
I missed ya. I was double fisting beers the whole time. One to drink and one to spill on some unsuspecting liberal scumbag.:D

[eric_dmbfan03]

Why would Bush bring up No Child Left Behind if he knows that Kerry's going to respond with the fact that he's underfunded it.

[MarkDMB]

Is a lithmus test similar to a global test???

[#34->Raven]

he looked so proud when he was talking about his little act!

[clemson357]

John Kerry just said "re NIGGED"

[WolfmanDMB]

I missed ya. I was double fisting beers the whole time. One to drink and one to spill on some unsuspecting liberal scumbag.:D
didnt you know its illegal in 46 states to spill beer...especially on a liberal :D

[AnyonebutBush]

Why would Bush bring up No Child Left Behind if he knows that Kerry's going to respond with the fact that he's underfunded it.Bush does not speak to all people, he only speaks to the people that believe everything he has said so far.

[#34->Raven]

it's illegal to spill beer period

[clemson357]

did anyone else notice that?

[MarkDMB]

Why would Bush bring up No Child Left Behind if he knows that Kerry's going to respond with the fact that he's underfunded it.

That's an excellent point. As the son of two educators and the brother of another, not to mention many friends who are teachers, I have never heard any of them say NCLB was a good idea.

[OCMarsh]

What do you all think of having one six-year term for Presidents instead of the current system? The upshot would be that a first term Pres. wouldn't be spending half his time campaigning.

[AnyonebutBush]

I missed ya. I was double fisting beers the whole time. One to drink and one to spill on some unsuspecting liberal scumbag.:DI love you too:p

[eric_dmbfan03]

"Working with real alliances."

[#34->Raven]

6 seems too long. really, 2 more years of bush before we elected another president? it just doesnt feel right

[reds24]

Any nonbiased people want to let me know who is winning this debate in their opinion. I'm stuck at the library studying.

[MelissaDMBfan]

That's an excellent point. As the son of two educators and the brother of another, not to mention many friends who are teachers, I have never heard any of them say NCLB was a good idea.
In theory it is a good idea, it is just completly underfunded, and almost impossible to achieve.

[WolfmanDMB]

What do you all think of having one six-year term for Presidents instead of the current system? The upshot would be that a first term Pres. wouldn't be spending half his time campaigning.
that would seem a little better. also house reps going from 2 years to 4 years cuz all they do for a year is campaign

[eric_dmbfan03]

That's an excellent point. As the son of two educators and the brother of another, not to mention many friends who are teachers, I have never heard any of them say NCLB was a good idea.
I work at an elementary school in town and I've seen kids cut from afterschool programs first hand. Not a good situation.

[#34->Raven]

no, we have to prove that we are doing what we are doing for the rightr reason, not get approval form other nations

[OCMarsh]

Any nonbiased people want to let me know who is winning this debate in their opinion. I'm stuck at the library studying.
Well, I'm conservative, but I hate both these guys so I feel pretty unbiased.
I think Bush does himself a disservice everytime he speaks, so you can guess who I think is winning.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Any nonbiased people want to let me know who is winning this debate in their opinion. I'm stuck at the library studying.
I'd like to think Kerry but I think it's even at this point. Kerry seems to know his facts a lot better than Bush and Bush is continuing to point out Kerry's Senate record. For me, Kerry's had a few more "stand out" quotes than Bush has. So at this point, couldn't really tell you.

[OCMarsh]

6 seems too long. really, 2 more years of bush before we elected another president? it just doesnt feel right
I understand that. But 4 seems too few. The current Pres. system just seems flawed. A guy gets elected then immediately starts thinking about 4 years later.

[#34->Raven]

and most of the law enforcement offices...

[AnyonebutBush]

Well, I'm conservative, but I hate both these guys so I feel pretty unbiased.
I think Bush does himself a disservice everytime he speaks, so you can guess who I think is winning.Good luck on November 2nd.

[OCMarsh]

Good luck on November 2nd.
Gee thanks. I'm seriously considering writing myself in.

[#34->Raven]

I understand that. But 4 seems too few. The current Pres. system just seems flawed. A guy gets elected then immediately starts thinking about 4 years later.
maybe 5, every X0 and X5 years. like in the 2020 election, then make the terms 5 years. that way, you are not campaigning half of your time in office

[eric_dmbfan03]

Damn, the Cards tied it up 4-4.

[MarkDMB]

NLCS -- Cards 4, 'Stros 4 Top 6th
ALCS -- Sox 0, Yanks 1 Bottom 6th

[#34->Raven]

dammit st loius
seems like i am against every thing my roomates are rooting for, St Loius, New York, and G Dub

[AnyonebutBush]

Gee thanks. I'm seriously considering writing myself in.I told my undecided friend that if worse comes to worse just remember that Kerry has no presidential record so you cant say he would make a bad president. When Bush won in 2000 I sat back and hoped he would make the right decisions.So Ask yourself, are you happy from what you saw from this guy or are you willing to give someone a shot with a chance that he will make the right decisions.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Bummer man.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Great question!!!

[#34->Raven]

the moderater is doing an outstanding job with the debate tonight. asking very good questions

[kgoedman]

asking very good questionsit's just a shame that both Bush and Kerry aren't answering them.

[Holla9]

Kerry just said that because of Bush, terrorists can now walk into a gun show and buy assault weapons. What a moron.

[eric_dmbfan03]

:lol

[AnyonebutBush]

the moderater is doing an outstanding job with the debate tonight. asking very good questions:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[#34->Raven]

it's just a shame that both Bush and Kerry aren't answering them.
yeah, the one flaw in the whole process

[#34->Raven]

damn, again, a great question

[OCMarsh]

So Ask yourself, are you happy from what you saw from this guy or are you willing to give someone a shot with a chance that he will make the right decisions.
You're right, I'll write in Vince. But seriously, I almost hope Kerry wins for two reasons:
1) I won't have to blush everytime the President makes a statement.
2) No Hillary (she-devil) in 2008

[#34->Raven]

2) No Hillary (she-devil) in 2008

2012! :evil :monkey :banned

[AnyonebutBush]

Kerry just said that because of Bush, terrorists can now walk into a gun show and buy assault weapons. What a moron.Its very true if you have the connections. Its probably like Bush thinking the CIA and FBI were Morons for thinking that Terrorists were gonna highjack our own planes into our buildings killing over 3000 Americans.

[OCMarsh]

2012!
:violent :banned

[eric_dmbfan03]

Don't bring Texas into this!

[#34->Raven]

:violent :banned
:lol

[eric_dmbfan03]

Bush was giddy during that answer.

[dmb@uvm]

Is McCain a dem. now or what?

[OCMarsh]

Its very true if you have the connections.
If you have connections you won't bother buying guns at shows. People need to understand that criminals don't buy guns from typical locations (stores, shows.) It is the guns in the hands of kids that will come from those places.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Yikes! GOP's freakin' out after that English comment.

[OCMarsh]

Bush twins are hot

[eric_dmbfan03]

Was that Michael J. Fox sitting next to Teresa?

[#34->Raven]

idea kerry....idea

not idear

[WolfmanDMB]

that was a quick hour and a half

[MarkDMB]

St. Louis 7 - Houston 4 Bot. 6
NY 3 - Boston 0 Bot. 7

[OCMarsh]

St. Louis 7 - Houston 4 Bot. 6
NY 3 - Boston 0 Bot. 7
Thanx

I'm heading back to baseball. See yall later.

[Holla9]

edit...

[barefoot]

St. Louis 7 - Houston 4 Bot. 6
NY 3 - Boston 0 Bot. 7
thats the real info.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Friggin' 'Stros.

[WolfmanDMB]

seeing the twins tonight kinda makes me want to have a bush threesome...hopefully without much "bush" though cuz i like it clean shaven

[eric_dmbfan03]

And on that note, back to DMBc.

[mwjorgens]

Kerry just said that because of Bush, terrorists can now walk into a gun show and buy assault weapons. What a moron.
im curious why that is wrong? ive never been to a gun show, but from what i know i thought you could.

[Holla9]

Its very true if you have the connections. Its probably like Bush thinking the CIA and FBI were Morons for thinking that Terrorists were gonna highjack our own planes into our buildings killing over 3000 Americans.

Do you think sellers at gun shows keep assault weapons on the side that they illegally sell to terrorists? You cannot obtain guns that are more dangerous now than you could during the ban. The ban didn't do anything.

[Holla9]

im curious why that is wrong? ive never been to a gun show, but from what i know i thought you could.

All the ban did was ban weapons with certain cosmetic features that were made after 1994.

[Gregb486]

the moderating on this debate wasn't bad....just wanted more: the environment, stem cells, etc... i think they wasted too much time on iraq in the first two debates...they were even talking about it again at the beginning of this one

[greenpick41]

I didn't know John Kerry found Osama Bin Laden's handbook. I want to see it too.

[mwjorgens]

All the ban did was ban weapons with certain cosmetic features that were made after 1994.
ok so you are saying anyone can get them and always could? so kerry was wrong in that its no bushs fault but correct that someone can go to a gun show and get a nice weapon

[Jake]

I don't think Bush won as hands down as people may think, but there were 3 things that stood out. 1. Bush is afraid to admit that raising the mininum wage is bad 2. Kerry talked about his plan(s), but only specifically laid out two and 3. Kerry f'ed up very very badly by invoking the name of VP Cheney's daughter. That is the one that will haunt him.

[jmclane2]

I don't think Bush won as hands down as people may think,
No, he didn't win at all. Just like the last two times. I might be willing to say the second one was a tie, but tonight was once again no question Kerry. Open the paper tomorrow and turn off Fox News young republicans.

How could someone lose all three debates and still win? We might find out and it's damn scary.

[Jake]

No, he didn't win at all. Just like the last two times. I might be willing to say the second one was a tie, but tonight was once again no question Kerry. Open the paper tomorrow and turn off Fox News young republicans.

How could someone lose all three debates and still win? We might find out and it's damn scary.


Tonight No question?? Oh my... first, wipe the coolaid from around your mouth, and 2nd, If I were forced to pick a winner I'd say Bush, but Kerry stuck to his guns. His major fault is his inability to make a positive point.


The bigger question is how can some people (and I'm looking at you) be more impressed with how a person speaks rather then what they say?

[kgoedman]

I don't think Bush won as hands down as people may thinkI think that he actually looked worse during this debate. I think Bush runs into real problems by answering question by talking about No Child Left Behind when the question was about something completely unrelated. Kerry does the same thing, but to a lesser degree.

[Holla9]

ok so you are saying anyone can get them and always could? so kerry was wrong in that its no bushs fault but correct that someone can go to a gun show and get a nice weapon

The ban only affected features on weapons made after 1994. Now you can just get newer guns with these features since the ban is no longer in affect. You can't go to a gun show and buy an automatic weapon, regardless of the ban.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Tonight No question?? Oh my... first, wipe the coolaid from around your mouth, and 2nd, If I were forced to pick a winner I'd say Bush, but Kerry stuck to his guns.
Fox News has Kerry a winner at 68%.

[Jake]

Fox News has Kerry a winner at 68%.


I can't believe that 68% of those people watched the same debate I did. At best, I'd say 50/50. Which I think is very possible. But for what Kerry didn't address, there is no way I could say he 'won' the debate.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Well all the pundits are saying that Kerry won. Some of the Bush people are saying that since the last debate was on domestic policy, Bush was expected to lose since Dems usually do better on domestic policy. But I mean, both campaigns agreed on three different debates each focused on a certain topic. I don't know how they can complain about something they could have controlled.

[#34->Raven]

Fox News has Kerry a winner at 68%.
and a CNN viewer poll has Bush as a winner by 69%

[Jake]

I find it hard to fathom that so many people thought that Kerry actually put together better plans of attack the Bush did. He failed to acutally answer questions... I guess some people don't really care about what is said, or how much taxes are, as long as the person looks good.

[Mike_Karp]

Bush is like a little pull string doll. You pull the string and he says the same damn thing over and over again. Bush has his three points and somehow he finds a way to go back to them even though the question has no relevance whatsoever.

[cfjess012]

KERRY: We're all God's children, Bob. And I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was, she's being who she was born as.

in the bible, in several verses that you are not born being homosexual, and that is a choice, so if he wants to make a reference to the bible like he clearly is he should get the facts right, damnit i hate kerry.

[chellek23]

Umm, just to interject... The two polls quoted are ONLINE polls. The only thing they mean is that Dems have more time on their hands to go to all the websites and vote.

And imo, Bush gets the edge.

And btw, education has EVERYTHING to do with jobs. Talking about "No Child Left Behind" was answering the question (if that's what someone was referring to in an earlier post). It was a good transition and for Kerry to say that he wasn't answering the question shows he was ignoring the answer or just not paying attention.

[GreenJester]

I find it hard to fathom that so many people thought that Kerry actually put together better plans of attack the Bush did. He failed to acutally answer questions... I guess some people don't really care about what is said, or how much taxes are, as long as the person looks good.
So did Bush. He had a good night to be sure, but he still hasn't answered for his many, many idiotic mistakes.


Tonight it was really clear where the line is: the Bush mentality is completely self-centered. Only America matters. There's no need to consider anyone else's point of view--Bush's concept of freedom is all he needs, so of course it's what the rest of the world needs, and if the world disagrees? Poor fools, they just haven't seen the light of how great things could be if they were just like us! God wants things done Bush's way, guys! So pray, pray, pray your fucking hearts out... that will get us through EVERYTHING.

Bush closes his eyes and masturbates while he pulls the trigger on America, and on the world. That's what he offers.



We can't go on like this, America.

[WolfmanDMB]

Umm, just to interject... The two polls quoted are ONLINE polls. The only thing they mean is that Dems have more time on their hands to go to all the websites and vote.

And imo, Bush gets the edge.

And btw, education has EVERYTHING to do with jobs. Talking about "No Child Left Behind" was answering the question (if that's what someone was referring to in an earlier post). It was a good transition and for Kerry to say that he wasn't answering the question shows he was ignoring the answer or just not paying attention.
i think it was best said by jesse jackson when he said that already educated people are loosing jobs to overseas workers who get paid less so education is not EVERYTHING to do with jobs. people who are already educated dont need the education assistance that bush thinks everyone needs but just need to have those jobs that they once had back home.

[WolfmanDMB]

Umm, just to interject... The two polls quoted are ONLINE polls. The only thing they mean is that Dems have more time on their hands to go to all the websites and vote.

And imo, Bush gets the edge.

And btw, education has EVERYTHING to do with jobs. Talking about "No Child Left Behind" was answering the question (if that's what someone was referring to in an earlier post). It was a good transition and for Kerry to say that he wasn't answering the question shows he was ignoring the answer or just not paying attention.
to cover this i would have to say that if bush was winning then someone would be saying that repubs have too much time on their hands to go to all the websites to vote so that arguement is in no way valid.

[kgoedman]

I find it hard to fathom that so many people thought that Kerry actually put together better plans of attack the Bush did. He failed to acutally answer questions... I guess some people don't really care about what is said, or how much taxes are, as long as the person looks good.Bush answered questions about as often as Kerry did. All Bush did was talk about Kerry's voting record and NCLB.

[nubby]

Hey Jake how do you think the war is going to be paid for? You think we should keep giving hte rich tax breaks so the government can go bankrupt?

[WolfmanDMB]

Hey Jake how do you think the war is going to be paid for? You think we should keep giving hte rich tax breaks so the government can go bankrupt?
and so that i can have really high taxes, a higher retirement age, and less of a social security pension because the government is going bankrupt because right now they are only looking at the short term of the tax relief and not further down the road to when social security is a problem when im older.

[chellek23]

Ok, I will try to answer these comments as best I can... However considering that I am completely exhausted from a long day I may regret it. ;)

Actually, I would agree with your comment if the online polls were that skewed towards Bush. The whole point is that ANY online poll is unscientific and the online polls cited by people are skewed heavily Democrat. Why do I know this? Well for one none of the 'scientific polls' taken after these debates have showed such a large margin. 2nd, the insta-polls (which are also not that reliable, but more scientific than the online voluntary polls) also do not reflect these results. And FINALLY, the Dems have made a concerted effort to get their people to vote on these polls through mass-emails to their party faithful. Nothing wrong with that but to say these polls reflect the 'true' winner of these debates is simply not a 'valid arguement' as you say. :)

Now, re:the importance of education... I will concede the fact that companies may move their operations to other countries because of the lower wages. They've been doing it for years and the fact is as globalization continues so will the practice. HOWEVER, having said that one must look at the long term! In order for a country, or indeed a state or city to attract the businesses of the 'new' economy (i.e. technology) one must have a capable and educated population. Companies want to locate to places where they know they will have access to skilled workers. Granted, this is not the only factor but it is a major one. I'd be glad to quote you articles, economic theory, etc at a later date... right now I'm going to bed!

[Gregb486]

I don't think Bush won as hands down as people may think, but there were 3 things that stood out. 1. Bush is afraid to admit that raising the mininum wage is bad 2. Kerry talked about his plan(s), but only specifically laid out two and 3. Kerry f'ed up very very badly by invoking the name of VP Cheney's daughter. That is the one that will haunt him.the thing about cheney's daughter really isn't that bad. i mean, edwards did it with cheney sitting right next to him, and the thing is that cheney agrees with the liberal view of gay rights, perhaps even gay marriage, we really don't know. but it will never get blown out of proportion because the bush would never want to bring it up. in certain cases, your right, envoking someones name could turn out real bad, but kerry is safe since cheney essentially agrees with him. its rather unbelievable in my opinion that the bush team has kept it so secret for so long that cheney's daughter is gay - and by secret i mean just kept quiet about it, because many people do know.

[clemson357]

..its rather unbelievable in my opinion that the bush team has kept it so secret for so long that cheney's daughter is gay ....

everything is a conspiracy.... :rolleyes:

did it ever occur to you that the she kept it quiet? maybe she didn't want people talking about her, like say for example: her sexuality being mentioned in a nationally televised presidential debate

[bseitz]

and so that i can have really high taxes, a higher retirement age, and less of a social security pension because the government is going bankrupt because right now they are only looking at the short term of the tax relief and not further down the road to when social security is a problem when im older.

Social Security is funded by payroll taxes and has nothing to do with income taxes. Nobody got a payroll tax cut. Could it be that you're beginning to realize that this government mandated Ponzi scheme is a fraud?

[Jake]

since there are some of the kids that arn't paying attention (at all), let's try and take this slowly.


first, accept the fact that people didn't become rich by paying taxes. Rich people, and rich companies will avoid paying taxes at all costs with loopholes and so on. That is why, as the Prez pointed out, the tax burden largely falls on the middle class.

2nd, a company will keep it's profit margin steady, regardless of tax hikes. The US system of business is focused on profit margin, and businesses will 'fold' if their profit margin is not high enough. If you tax them more, they will raise prices to consumers, passing the tax hike onto... that's right, the middle class!


So, as you can see, by actually believing that taxing the rich (or top 2%) is the largest red herring in politics. Don't feel bad, people have been falling for it for decades now. The only way to put more money in our pockets is to make us less dependent on the govt for things (i.e, no universal healthcare), and CONTINUE to give tax cuts to everyone and force the govt to by fiscally sound in their spending. Sorry defense dept, no more $900 toilets.

[bseitz]

since there are some of the kids that arn't paying attention (at all), let's try and take this slowly.


first, accept the fact that people didn't become rich by paying taxes. Rich people, and rich companies will avoid paying taxes at all costs with loopholes and so on. That is why, as the Prez pointed out, the tax burden largely falls on the middle class.

2nd, a company will keep it's profit margin steady, regardless of tax hikes. The US system of business is focused on profit margin, and businesses will 'fold' if their profit margin is not high enough. If you tax them more, they will raise prices to consumers, passing the tax hike onto... that's right, the middle class!


So, as you can see, by actually believing that taxing the rich (or top 2%) is the largest red herring in politics. Don't feel bad, people have been falling for it for decades now. The only way to put more money in our pockets is to make us less dependent on the govt for things (i.e, no universal healthcare), and CONTINUE to give tax cuts to everyone and force the govt to by fiscally sound in their spending. Sorry defense dept, no more $900 toilets.

Thank you for that. Finally someone who realizes that corporations are TAX COLLECTORS not TAX PAYERS!!

Just look at the two Democrat candidates to see that you can't steal from the rich (they've got the lawyers and accountants). Kerry's (actually his wife's) recently released tax records show that they had $6.8 million in income, yet paid an effective tax rate of just 12.8%. That's right: 12.8%! (By contrast, the Bushes had income of only about 1/10th of the Kerry's, yet paid an effective rate of around 30%). Edwards used a tax avoidance scam (one that the IRS is cracking down on) that involved creating a Subchapter-S Corporation where he was the only shareholder and funneling millions of his "earnings" into this corporation. He then paid himself a salary of something like $350,000 which was subject to payroll taxes, and paid out millions in "dividends" which were not. The net result was that he avoided paying almost $700,000 in Medicare taxes. When liberals talk about how "the rich should pay their fair share", be assured that they don't include themselves. The only thing worse than a hypocrite is a sanctimonious hypocrite.

You're also correct that the answer is to cut government spending, not raise taxes. And I'm not talking about nibbling around the edges. I'm talking about abolishing entire Cabinet-level departments. Here's my suggestion: Abolish every department created after, say, 1970. If the Republic survived without it for 200 years, we don't need it. Unfortunately, the sheep would be terrified so it won't happen.

[ambysshrink]

Sorry defense dept, no more $900 toilets.
This was the best point you made in that entire post.

[WolfmanDMB]

since there are some of the kids that arn't paying attention (at all), let's try and take this slowly.


first, accept the fact that people didn't become rich by paying taxes. Rich people, and rich companies will avoid paying taxes at all costs with loopholes and so on. That is why, as the Prez pointed out, the tax burden largely falls on the middle class.

2nd, a company will keep it's profit margin steady, regardless of tax hikes. The US system of business is focused on profit margin, and businesses will 'fold' if their profit margin is not high enough. If you tax them more, they will raise prices to consumers, passing the tax hike onto... that's right, the middle class!


So, as you can see, by actually believing that taxing the rich (or top 2%) is the largest red herring in politics. Don't feel bad, people have been falling for it for decades now. The only way to put more money in our pockets is to make us less dependent on the govt for things (i.e, no universal healthcare), and CONTINUE to give tax cuts to everyone and force the govt to by fiscally sound in their spending. Sorry defense dept, no more $900 toilets.
:thumbsup i like that idea. anything more than a 30 dollar toilet in a govenment building should be considered illegal :lol

anyways i do believe that people should be more responsible for their own retirement and healthcare and not depend, mostly, on the government so that taxes will be less and then there will be less govenrment. but is that likely to happen? probably not because the poorer old people will want back what they put into the government through their social security pension. im also for tax breaks for businesses that help these workers start and contribute to their retirement and healthcare funds.

[Jake]

...
You're also correct that the answer is to cut government spending, not raise taxes. And I'm not talking about nibbling around the edges. I'm talking about abolishing entire Cabinet-level departments. Here's my suggestion: Abolish every department created after, say, 1970. If the Republic survived without it for 200 years, we don't need it. Unfortunately, the sheep would be terrified so it won't happen.



That is very correct. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the Dept of Education actually does, considering that education is mandated state by state. If it wasn't for the No Child Left Behind act, I wouldn't be able to name one thing the Dept of Ed did.

[bseitz]

That is very correct. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly the Dept of Education actually does, considering that education is mandated state by state. If it wasn't for the No Child Left Behind act, I wouldn't be able to name one thing the Dept of Ed did.

I wonder how many people know that the Federal Deparment of Education was established in .......


..... drum roll .......


1979!!!!

And kids have gotten soooooo much smarter since then. What would we do without it.

[bseitz]

Sorry defense dept, no more $900 toilets.
This was the best point you made in that entire post.


I actually thought it was his weakest point.

[crosscg]

I wonder how many people know that the Federal Deparment of Education was established in .......


..... drum roll .......


1979!!!!

And kids have gotten soooooo much smarter since then. What would we do without it.
Very interesting.... i guess

[fightingshrimp]

This was the only debate I watched in full, and I have to say that Bush did a good job holding it together despite his constant smirking. He made a lot of good points in the tax portion of it. I thought he made too many references to John Kerry's record, although it was important to see his track record in the Senate/Congress. The two things that alarm me are his evasion of the Roe v. Wade question and that if elected, he will be probably appointing justices for the Supreme Court.

I also thought John Kerry did well. I thought he answered the questions and digressed less than Bush. But some of his plans seem implausible (like health care for everyone).

It's gonna be tough. And I feel that a lot of the undecided voters will now be voting based on what issues matter to them most.

[dylanquirt]

Bush's bullshit war on terror....

Bush said the bin Laden comment was "one of those exaggerations," but in a news conference on March 13, 2002, Bush said when asked about the search for the al Qaeda leader: "So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, we haven't heard much from him. ... And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."

[crosscg]

Bush's bullshit war on terror....

Bush said the bin Laden comment was "one of those exaggerations," but in a news conference on March 13, 2002, Bush said when asked about the search for the al Qaeda leader: "So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, we haven't heard much from him. ... And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I — I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him."
http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/wmv/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/video/exaggeration/exaggeration.asx

Video of both

[dylanquirt]

http://mfile.akamai.com/8082/wmv/democratic1.download.akamai.com/8082/video/exaggeration/exaggeration.asx

Video of both


where did you find that? Is it a commercial thats airing?.....oh, god i hope so.....

[crosscg]

where did you find that? Is it a commercial thats airing?.....oh, god i hope so.....
www.dnc.org (http://www.dnc.org)

[jmclane2]

Tonight No question?? Oh my... first, wipe the coolaid from around your mouth, and 2nd, If I were forced to pick a winner I'd say Bush, but Kerry stuck to his guns. His major fault is his inability to make a positive point.


The bigger question is how can some people (and I'm looking at you) be more impressed with how a person speaks rather then what they say?
So now that three days have passed and practically every media outlet (outside of Fox News, of course) has called this a three-peat for Kerry, any comment? Maybe you want to stay in fantasy land where the WMDs will show up any day and the president you support is the respected leader of this country. Bush lives there too and I'm sure he'd love the company and he'll probably find you one of those great jobs our "rebuilding economy" is providing.

See, I like to spend my time in the real world, where Bush had his ass handed to him for two weeks. In this world our president has no ability to tell the public where he stands on issues, or even if he fully understands them himself. He is the least respected president of my lifetime and one of the most protested political figures to ever walk the face of the earth. Not only did he lose the popular vote, but he managed to turn an approval rating in the 80th percentile down to around 52% right now. Over the last two weeks he has proven he's wrong on every major issue facing this nation today. So instead of having an intelligent debate, his camp will focus on things like bring up Cheney's daughter during the debate or maybe go back and beat the flip-flopping horse a few more times.

The fact is Kerry kicked little Dubya's ass and now all his supporters are trying to find some sort of positive spin. What is sad is Bush might still win this election. He still has a slight edge in the polls. Here's to four more years!!!! Oh, the coolaid comment, good one dude. My favorite is Lemon-lime.

[pedelen99]

since there are some of the kids that arn't paying attention (at all), let's try and take this slowly.

first, accept the fact that people didn't become rich by paying taxes. Rich people, and rich companies will avoid paying taxes at all costs with loopholes and so on. That is why, as the Prez pointed out, the tax burden largely falls on the middle class.

This argument never ceases to amaze me. The rich get out of paying taxes therefor... lets just tax the middle class from the start!

Gee, I would have gone with "let's close the loopholes" as my answer, but what the hell do I know?

- Phil