100,000 Iraqis Estimated Dead Since US Invasion

[AdamCU81]

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/10/28/international1305EDT0569.DTL

Evildoers, evildoers, evildoers. Bullshit. That's a lot of people.

[i like tictacs]

Holy shit, war, batman!

[mmazz72]

well, at least they're "free" now.

[nubby]

Holy shit, war, batman!
I guess war means it's ok that we've killed over 100,000 Iraqi's.

[RJ2kWJ]

Good... should be 100,000,000

[i like tictacs]

Good... should be 100,000,000
:lol

I'm going to hell.

[RJ2kWJ]

:lol

I'm going to hell.
http://antsmarching.org/forum/images/smilies/bounce.gif

[RJ2kWJ]

Why Cant I Ever Do Smilies Correctly

[ss10mets]

Good... should be 100,000,000

Your a fucking idiot.... just shows what kind of person you are.

[EatSleepJeep]

Your a fucking idiot.... just shows what kind of person you are.

:eek: :ugh: :freak :lol

Because God secretly hates republicans.

[RJ2kWJ]

Your a fucking idiot.... just shows what kind of person you are.
I would say a 100-1 ratio is pretty good. Good job boys!!!

[EatSleepJeep]

I would say a 100-1 ratio is pretty good. Good job boys!!!


women and children, I'm so proud.

[penn darvis]

I would say a 100-1 ratio is pretty good. Good job boys!!!
"Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children," they said.

[RJ2kWJ]

"Most individuals reportedly killed by coalition forces were women and children," they said.
Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.

[penn darvis]

Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.
Then why don't you make the world a better place, go to Iraq, and start killing babies?

[UNC41]

Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.

At least that's not a stereotype... :BANG

[RJ2kWJ]

Then why don't you make the world a better place, go to Iraq, and start killing the little guys that are gonna grow up to become evil terrorists?
Good idea. Dont really have a weapon though.

[penn darvis]

Good idea. Dont really have a weapon though.
You can join the army. If you truly believe killing babies makes us safer, you have to join.

[RJ2kWJ]

The more women and children we kill, the less fanatics we have to deal with in 15-20 years..

[RJ2kWJ]

You can join the army. If you truly believe killing babies makes us safer, you have to join.
Whos gonna take care of my hotel chain?

[penn darvis]

The more women and children we kill, the less fanatics we have to deal with in 15-20 years..
Are you talking abou Christians or Iraqis?

[i like tictacs]

There are too many fuckin liberals here.

[RJ2kWJ]

Are you talking abou Christians or Iraqis?
Iraqis.

[RJ2kWJ]

There are too many fuckin liberals here.
:)


P.S.- how do you double quote so I can stop posting twice in the same topic. I suck at the intraweb sometimes.

[penn darvis]

Iraqis.
Awww. I thought we agreed about something.

[TwoStepFF]

Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.
this guy is the man..I agree with this and everything else you said...should of just nuked all of the middle east

[RJ2kWJ]

this guy is the man..I agree with this and everything else you said...should of just nuked all of the middle east
Sarcasm or no? Its tough on the intraweb. :)

[RJ2kWJ]

Awww. I thought we agreed about something.
You sure we've never agreed on soemthing?

[TwoStepFF]

Sarcasm or no? Its tough on the intraweb. :)
nope, it would of caused 0 U.S. deaths and killed off the sand-digging terrorists and probaly Osama..Kill 2 birds with one stone (actully alot of birds)

[pedelen99]

Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.

Well, at least there's a guy who's not afraid to say what he thinks...

- Phil

[Holla9]

I would rather be dead than be an Iraqi.

[ss10mets]

I cannot believe what some of you are saying... this is so sad.

I am so horrified right now I don't even know what to say...

I do know we couldn't nuke the place... if you knew anything about foreign relations but your an idiot so you probably don't. Not to mention all our precious black gold will be useless and probably blow the world up.

[bseitz]

The sick part is that if these barbarians could do it, they wouldn't hesitate to nuke every city in the U.S. And here we are ringing our hands.

[TwoStepFF]

I cannot believe what some of you are saying... this is so sad.

I am so horrified right now I don't even know what to say...

I do know we couldn't nuke the place... if you knew anything about foreign relations but your an idiot so you probably don't. Not to mention all our precious black gold will be useless and probably blow the world up.

must be a women, I dont know if it was meant towards me or not but I do know about foreign relations, yes I know if we nuke, the radiation would go into other countries causing them to break treaties and be upset at us and and their treaties with other countries would become active and so on

[RJ2kWJ]

I cannot believe what some of you are saying... this is so sad.

I am so horrified right now I don't even know what to say...

I do know we couldn't nuke the place... if you knew anything about foreign relations but your an idiot so you probably don't. Not to mention all our precious black gold will be useless and probably blow the world up.
There are other types of nukes that only vaporize animals and leave the buildings standing without the long fallout problems.

[TwoStepFF]

There are other types of nukes that only vaporize animals and leave the buildings standing without the long fallout problems.
this is true

[System]

Good... should be 100,000,000


Agreed, this would whip out most of the middle east.....

which would be a good thing for the war on terror

[System]

I would say a 100-1 ratio is pretty good. Good job boys!!!



Damn fine shooting soldiers....just remember, When somebody asks how can you shoot a little kid and his mom, remember Full Metal Jacket.


"Easy, you just don't lead them as much"

[System]

There are too many fuckin liberals here.


Preaching to the choir on this one....


Liberals are good for, um, well, um, Teddy Kennedy is a good thing, huge target to make fun of

[System]

this guy is the man..I agree with this and everything else you said...should of just nuked all of the middle east


Nuke all the middle east, I love it....make it one big glass factory

[System]

nope, it would of caused 0 U.S. deaths and killed off the sand-digging terrorists and probaly Osama..Kill 2 birds with one stone (actully alot of birds)



Sand-digging terrorists, don't you mean camel jockeys?


Sometimes you must kill off the herd, if there are too many bad influences

[System]

There are other types of nukes that only vaporize animals and leave the buildings standing without the long fallout problems.


Haven't heard of these, only nukes I know of are the ones that vaporize everything in sight

[TwoStepFF]

Haven't heard of these, only nukes I know of are the ones that vaporize everything in sight
haha, this guy is awsome

[System]

haha, this guy is awsome


I try, what can I say but I try

[RJ2kWJ]

Haven't heard of these, only nukes I know of are the ones that vaporize everything in sight
Yea but thats when you DO have to worry about the oil. It wouldnt hurt the oil because of how far underground the stuff is but getting to it would be the problem. Either way is fine but if I had to choose I would choose the ladder option.

[Holla9]

Agreed, this would whip out most of the middle east.....

which would be a good thing for the war on terror

:thumbsup

[Proof2k3]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. You guys are actually defending the idea of strategical genocide? "Nuke all the middle east" and "kill women and children there'll be less fantatics in 15 years" Have you guys completely lost it? I mean, fuck, I always knew Bush supporters weren't all there but if these are your true colors I'm honestly appauled. If any of you really believe that it's ok to tactically nuke and entire region with the explicit purpose of whiping out civilians you guys really are just as bad as the terrorists sympathizers in the middle east. Now before your heads explode from my last comment think about this: Nuking the middle east and exterminating the terrorists will also cause the deaths of tens of millions of innocent men, women, and children. Now if you're complelty ok with killing tens of millions of innocent women and children, then my comment stands and you're just as bad as the terrorist sympathizers.

[MattJ]

The more women and children we kill, the less fanatics we have to deal with in 15-20 years..

Hasn't worked in Israel.

Plus that's operating on the assumption that every Iraqi is a terrorist, like every white catholic is a Klansmen and every black person is a Panther.

And now there's their self defense justification. You try to destroy my way of life, I'll destroy yours.

[ss10mets]

must be a women


Your an asshole... I pity you... definitly not a woman just a human being with a soul and realize only about 1% if that are US hating.

Sorry I have a conscience and not a spawn of satin....

[TwoStepFF]

Your an asshole... I pity you... definitly not a woman just a human being with a soul and realize only about 1% if that are US hating.

Sorry I have a conscience and not a spawn of satin....
hahahahaha....sorry, you would rather have U.S. Soldiers killed than Iraq's?

[ss10mets]

hahahahaha....sorry, you would rather have U.S. Soldiers killed than Iraq's?

Obviously not you idiot, they should have never been there in the first place moron....

People wonder why they hate us? It's because of ignorant fuckfaces like you...

[Proof2k3]

hahahahaha....sorry, you would rather have U.S. Soldiers killed than Iraq's?
Um as horrible as it sounds... if it comes down to the lives of 1,100 willing (kinda) Soldiers loosing their lives fighting a war or tens of millions of innocent women and children dying... I don't think it's such a clear cut desicion, and definatley not a laughing matter.

[TwoStepFF]

Obviously not you idiot, they should have never been there in the first place moron....

People wonder why they hate us? It's because of ignorant fuckfaces like you...
I do agree with you that they should not be over there, that is Bush's fault. But calling me an "ignorant fuckface" on an internet board to further your opinion is not needed, it is the internet. And the Iraq's dont hate us because of ignorant fuckfaces, its mostly because of our freedoms and values and the role of women, and religon and so on

[TwoStepFF]

Um as horrible as it sounds... if it comes down to the lives of 1,100 willing (kinda) Soldiers loosing their lives fighting a war or tens of millions of innocent women and children dying... I don't think it's such a clear cut desicion, and definatley not a laughing matter.
i was lauging at how I was called an ignorant fuckface, I have never heard that before

[TwoStepFF]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. You guys are actually defending the idea of strategical genocide? "Nuke all the middle east" and "kill women and children there'll be less fantatics in 15 years" Have you guys completely lost it? I mean, fuck, I always knew Bush supporters weren't all there but if these are your true colors I'm honestly appauled. If any of you really believe that it's ok to tactically nuke and entire region with the explicit purpose of whiping out civilians you guys really are just as bad as the terrorists sympathizers in the middle east. Now before your heads explode from my last comment think about this: Nuking the middle east and exterminating the terrorists will also cause the deaths of tens of millions of innocent men, women, and children. Now if you're complelty ok with killing tens of millions of innocent women and children, then my comment stands and you're just as bad as the terrorist sympathizers.

how about this one, limit our borders in some way, the only other option in controlling terrorism, we could not let so many foreigners in our country..ya gotta agree with this one

[EatSleepJeep]

The more women and children we kill, the less fanatics we have to deal with in 15-20 years..

Actually, exactly the opposite, brainiac. You have proven yourself ignorant beyond words. The more innocent women and chilren we kill, the more people are drawn to extremist causes. The more people who will be influenced to kill our innocent women and children. The more who will hate us for killing their son or daughter or wife. People that supported us or had no position will become our enemy.

I'll be the first one to say it and I'm not ashamed to do so:
How does the USA losing 3,000 civilians justify Iraq losing 100,000?

There is not a person here who can make that justification. Not one. I don't care who you are, it does not compute. Don't try, as you'll make yourself look even more brainless than this ass-clown.

[Holla9]

Actually, exactly the opposite, brainiac. You have proven yourself ignorant beyond words. The more innocent women and chilren we kill, the more people are drawn to extremist causes. The more people who will be influenced to kill our innocent women and children. The more who will hate us for killing their son or daughter or wife. People that supported us or had no position will become our enemy.



Eliminating everyone would take care of that.

[TwoStepFF]

Eliminating everyone would take care of that.
hahaha, I was just gonna say that

[Seankel]

...And the Iraq's dont hate us because of ignorant fuckfaces, its mostly because of our freedoms and values and the role of women, and religon and so on
Iraq was actually one of the most progressive countries in the Middle East when it came to womens rights. Iraq was also a secular country that looked down on the Islamic fundamentalist movement. You may have confused Iraq with Afghanistan but don't worry about it, people do it all the time.

[EatSleepJeep]

Eliminating everyone would take care of that.

RJ2kWJ
Holla9
TwoStepFF

Anyone else want to put themselves on the list?

[nonewdirections]

how about this one, limit our borders in some way, the only other option in controlling terrorism, we could not let so many foreigners in our country..ya gotta agree with this one
the only other option?! if we promoted real social justice, at least pretended like we gave a shit about anyone other than us and tried to alleviate some international problems (not necessarily this one) in ways other than force when possible, then we'd limit the reasons for people to become terrorists. it's a lot easier to call terrorists irrational and evil than to actually try to analyze the sources of their actions. it does not excuse their actions at all, because terrorism is absolutely wrong, but if we really want to solve the deeper issues, we can't just go in guns blazing to every single situation. the people we try to help become our victims and then the cycle of terrorism begins again. i'm sure most of you would like to see us moving in a direction towards ending terrorism, but you should realize that the answer isn't killing civilians. i'm disgusted by some of what i've read in this thread. you talk about american values out of one side of your mouth and out of the other talk about indiscriminately killing people because of where they live. if those are the values and traditions we seek to preserve in this nation, i want off this ride right now. luckily not everyone thinks like some of the posters in this thread.

[TwoStepFF]

Iraq was actually one of the most progressive countries in the Middle East when it came to womens rights. Iraq was also a secular country that looked down on the Islamic fundamentalist movement. You may have confused Iraq with Afghanistan but don't worry about it, people do it all the time.
I thought it didnt have to do with the country..isnt Iraq mostly Muslim? Women are considered "property" in the Muslim religon. Everything that involves terrorism is caused by religon

[TwoStepFF]

the only other option?! if we promoted real social justice, at least pretended like we gave a shit about anyone other than us and tried to alleviate some international problems (not necessarily this one) in ways other than force when possible, then we'd limit the reasons for people to become terrorists. it's a lot easier to call terrorists irrational and evil than to actually try to analyze the sources of their actions. it does not excuse their actions at all, because terrorism is absolutely wrong, but if we really want to solve the deeper issues, we can't just go in guns blazing to every single situation. the people we try to help become our victims and then the cycle of terrorism begins again. i'm sure most of you would like to see us moving in a direction towards ending terrorism, but you should realize that the answer isn't killing civilians. i'm disgusted by some of what i've read in this thread. you talk about american values out of one side of your mouth and out of the other talk about indiscriminately killing people because of where they live. if those are the values and traditions we seek to preserve in this nation, i want off this ride right now. luckily not everyone thinks like some of the posters in this thread.

Its not like I want innocent people killed, I am saying that if it comes down to innocent Americans getting killed from terrorism or innocent Muslim's getting killed to eliminate terrorism I would agree with the killing of them..see if it wasnt for 9-11 I would not think this way...Also probaly because of Bush's madly mistaken decisions have also brought me to this point...I dislike that guy

[EatSleepJeep]

I thought it didnt have to do with the country..isnt Iraq mostly Muslim? Women are considered "property" in the Muslim religon. Everything that involves terrorism is caused by religon

You have no idea what you're talking about. None. Stop making an ass out of yourself. Or keep it up, and tell me how evolution is false and genesis is correct. I like that fable too.

[TwoStepFF]

You have no idea what you're talking about. None. Stop making an ass out of yourself. Or keep it up, and tell me how evolution is false and genesis is correct. I like that fable too.
ok can you answer that question though? I wasnt positive so I asked

[Holla9]

RJ2kWJ
Holla9
TwoStepFF

Anyone else want to put themselves on the list?

Oh noes!!!1 Not the list! :eek:

[TwoStepFF]

why dont we have something that we all can agree on
http://upx.primenova.com/jlh/nwar844-movieline-hjl.jpg
Jennifer Love Hewitt is hot

[penn darvis]

hahahahaha....sorry, you would rather have U.S. Soldiers killed than Iraq's?
I would rather not have anyone die, but I feel more sympathy for the Iraqis than the soldiers.

[AdamCU81]

I thought it didnt have to do with the country..isnt Iraq mostly Muslim? Women are considered "property" in the Muslim religon. Everything that involves terrorism is caused by religon


Terrorism isn't caused by religion. It happens when one part of the world exploits the rest of the world. The US is like a fat kid that's hogging all the food; and if you're starving you probably wouldn't appreciate that kid. You may even resort to violence to teach that hog a lesson. You'll go so far as to kill yourself if the chance exists that you could destroy the fat kid's hunger.

If you want to read a good book about Middle East conflict, check out "From Beirut to Jerusalem." It will give you a different perspective.
From Beirut to Jerusalem (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385413726/qid=1099039976/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-6390544-4904033?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)

[MattJ]

And the Iraq's dont hate us because of ignorant fuckfaces, its mostly because of our freedoms and values and the role of women, and religon and so on

I tend to think your average person in another country, be it subsistence farmer or store owner, doesn't really give a crap about Americans. Similar to how your average American McDonald's worker probably doesnt spend too much time thinking about them other than perhaps a catchphrase token response like "Screw the French, bunch of wusses."

If your average Iraqi hates us now, its not because of our freedom. Its because we have declared war on their culture and upset their lives. A country whose leader declared them evil is now occupying their country and trying to install their own government and values on them. Did we really think they would just accept our presence there?

We Americans don't like it when our own government intrudes too much in our lives and curbs our unalienable rights as human beings. How do you think we'd react to foreign occupiers? And I'm not talking about extremists right now, I'm talking your average citizen. We'd fight tooth and nail out of spite.

Claiming ideology and saying blanketly that people hate us for our freedoms is of supreme arrogance and self importance. "They hate our freedom" is a nice soundbite and rallying cry, but what exactly does that mean? Its a good politicians position though because you can rally people around it without ever really having to justify it because its just this amorphous concept.

[MattJ]

if it comes down to innocent Americans getting killed from terrorism or innocent Muslim's getting killed to eliminate terrorism I would agree with the killing of them..

2 things.

First the Iraq war isnt' about terrorism now, its about "you break it, you buy it." Regardless of whether the war was justified or not in the first place, we're there now and have to fix it enough so we can get out without the whole place going into anarchy.

Second, it seems odd to me the way you put being a Muslim and being an American as being mutually exclusive. Is an American from cleveland who happens to be a muslim less of an american? I don't really want to debate semantics so if that's not quite what you meant, if you were just talking Iraqi's then nevermind.

Also religious subjugation of women isn't a uniquely muslim thing. Plenty of stuff in the Bible about it too. I would think the expression of it among Arabs (I'm generalizing) is more of a cultural thing than anything else. Plenty of American Muslims that don't practice that.

[System]

You have got to be fucking kidding me. You guys are actually defending the idea of strategical genocide? "Nuke all the middle east" and "kill women and children there'll be less fantatics in 15 years" Have you guys completely lost it? I mean, fuck, I always knew Bush supporters weren't all there but if these are your true colors I'm honestly appauled. If any of you really believe that it's ok to tactically nuke and entire region with the explicit purpose of whiping out civilians you guys really are just as bad as the terrorists sympathizers in the middle east. Now before your heads explode from my last comment think about this: Nuking the middle east and exterminating the terrorists will also cause the deaths of tens of millions of innocent men, women, and children. Now if you're complelty ok with killing tens of millions of innocent women and children, then my comment stands and you're just as bad as the terrorist sympathizers.


No, i wasn't joking. I would nuke the entire middle east to save 1 American life.

Sorry, but anybody that thinks God wants them to kill Americans, Jews, Westerners in general isn't higher than a house fly on the food chain.

[System]

Hasn't worked in Israel.

Plus that's operating on the assumption that every Iraqi is a terrorist, like every white catholic is a Klansmen and every black person is a Panther.

And now there's their self defense justification. You try to destroy my way of life, I'll destroy yours.



hey dumbass,


KKK hates catholics too, get your shit straight before trying to argue a dumbass point

[barefoot]

it was estimated that Saddam killed 3-5 million people under his 20 year reign. ( I got that number out of National Geographic) Those were his OWN people. Do the math.

[System]

Obviously not you idiot, they should have never been there in the first place moron....

People wonder why they hate us? It's because of ignorant fuckfaces like you...



and people wonder why i hate liberals, there are going to be casualities of war. This is known. You start to think of their people like they mean something to you. Like if they live or die it has an affect on your day to day life.


Hell, you could wipe out the entire middle east and i would loose ZERO sleep over it. hell I might have a party.


If they wanna kill americans, fine, be that way. but remember, don't kick the lion in the ass if you can't get out of the way of its mouth.


and in the words of Toby keith (who is a democrat by the way)

"We'll put a boot in your ass cause it is the American way"

[System]

Eliminating everyone would take care of that.



I support this post

[System]

Iraq was actually one of the most progressive countries in the Middle East when it came to womens rights. Iraq was also a secular country that looked down on the Islamic fundamentalist movement. You may have confused Iraq with Afghanistan but don't worry about it, people do it all the time.



ya, so they may have given womens rights but that doesn't take away from the fact their country's leadership hated america and what we stand for.






I believe that the entire middle east muslim community hates us because of 2 reasons

1) they are pissed they live in a fucking dessert. hell i would hate everyone as well

2) we support the jewish state of isreal. The Isreali's and the Muslims hate each other. I mean absolutly hate each other.

Lets only hope that wehn Arafat dies it settles some of the peace

[System]

You have no idea what you're talking about. None. Stop making an ass out of yourself. Or keep it up, and tell me how evolution is false and genesis is correct. I like that fable too.


Ok, I believe in God, I believe in Creation. But i also believe in evolution.

I heard a quote one time that said, a second in god's eyes in like a million years on earth. Wouldn't that prove some explination of evolution and relate it to creation?



Besides, Jihad stands for holy war. the terrorist are waging a holy war against us. This new breed of terrorism has everything to do with God

[System]

I would rather not have anyone die, but I feel more sympathy for the Iraqis than the soldiers.



support you soldiers you un-american prick....

you parents were the ones that spit on soldiers returning from viet nam too weren't they? or were they hiding in Canada

[System]

Terrorism isn't caused by religion. It happens when one part of the world exploits the rest of the world. The US is like a fat kid that's hogging all the food; and if you're starving you probably wouldn't appreciate that kid. You may even resort to violence to teach that hog a lesson. You'll go so far as to kill yourself if the chance exists that you could destroy the fat kid's hunger.

If you want to read a good book about Middle East conflict, check out "From Beirut to Jerusalem." It will give you a different perspective.
From Beirut to Jerusalem (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0385413726/qid=1099039976/sr=8-1/ref=pd_ka_1/002-6390544-4904033?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)


ya, that is the biggist horseshit answer i have ever read, and that book looks like it got written by a leftist punk.

[Holla9]

it was estimated that Saddam killed 3-5 million people under his 20 year reign. ( I got that number out of National Geographic) Those were his OWN people. Do the math.


Bullshit. Saddam was a good guy and all of the Iraqi people loved him.

[System]

Bullshit. Saddam was a good guy and all of the Iraqi people loved him.


Really?


So Osama is on Bush's christmas card list too huh? I know that cause that communist Micheal Moore told me

[jrock5730]

Really?


So Osama is on Bush's christmas card list too huh? I know that cause that communist Micheal Moore told me

Of course not, Bush said himself he is really not concerned about the man who killed all of our people. Hell, Bush doesn't have time to deal with Osama, he has a country to rebuild.

[jrock5730]

No, i wasn't joking. I would nuke the entire middle east to save 1 American life.

Sorry, but anybody that thinks God wants them to kill Americans, Jews, Westerners in general isn't higher than a house fly on the food chain.

I wish someone would nuke your fucking house! :lol

[System]

never do it, nuking my house would eliminate a major USAF base

[jrock5730]

never do it, nuking my house would eliminate a major USAF base

Now I see why you are the way you are.

[System]

why do you see that? cause i support troops? cause i love my country? cause i work for a defense contractor? cause i am patriotic?...


or maybe i base all my decision on logic and not personal beliefs

[jrock5730]

why do you see that? cause i support troops? cause i love my country? cause i work for a defense contractor? cause i am patriotic?...


or maybe i base all my decision on logic and not personal beliefs

Your logic is fucked up then son.

[UNC41]

ya, so they may have given womens rights but that doesn't take away from the fact their country's leadership hated america and what we stand for.






I believe that the entire middle east muslim community hates us because of 2 reasons

1) they are pissed they live in a fucking dessert. hell i would hate everyone as well

2) we support the jewish state of isreal. The Isreali's and the Muslims hate each other. I mean absolutly hate each other.

Lets only hope that wehn Arafat dies it settles some of the peace

Saying every Muslim from the Middle East hates the US is like saying every American supports the war. There are a very select few terrorits and there is no way to justify the death of all those people who do not have any terrorits intentions. People have every right to hate the US, but unless they act or plan to act on it we have no right to kill them. You quoted Toby Keith in an earlier post. I'm just going to try and help you out on this one by saying that you'll only look like a bigger idiot when quoting that douche in your posts.

[jrock5730]

Saying every Muslim from the Middle East hates the US is like saying every American supports the war. There are a very select few terrorits and there is no way to justify the death of all those people who do not have any terrorits intentions. People have every right to hate the US, but unless they act or plan to act on it we have no right to kill them. You quoted Toby Keith in an earlier post. I'm just going to try and help you out on this one by saying that you'll only look like a bigger idiot when quoting that douche in your posts.

Read his sig, it explains alot: "Peace through superior firepower." Makes alot of sense.

[TwoStepFF]

Besides, Jihad stands for holy war. the terrorist are waging a holy war against us. This new breed of terrorism has everything to do with God

this is true, Jihad, thats whats it called, I couldnt remember

[nonewdirections]

it was estimated that Saddam killed 3-5 million people under his 20 year reign. ( I got that number out of National Geographic) Those were his OWN people. Do the math.
according to some people in the thread, we should be doing the exact same thing to his people. i understand military casualties in war, and even some accidental civilian casualties, but what kind of sick person is FOR the killing of innocents specifically? i know you probably are not, but there has been more than one person in this thread who has alluded to it or just flat out said it.

[nonewdirections]

and in the words of Toby keith (who is a democrat by the way)

"We'll put a boot in your ass cause it is the American way"
toby keith is misinformed. what is your point?

[RJ2kWJ]

The more women and children we kill, the less fanatics we have to deal with in 15-20 years..
Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.

Is this the weirdo that said it?

[ss10mets]

toby keith is misinformed. what is your point?

I find it hard to believe he is a democrat... that would hurt his record sales, haha

[TwoStepFF]

I think some of these people should move to Iraq since they love the Iraq's so much, I would like to see what a soldier thinks about this when he reads that some of these people would rather have American soldiers killed over innocent Iraq's

[ss10mets]

I think some of these people should move to Iraq since they love the Iraq's so much, I would like to see what a soldier thinks about this when he reads that some of these people would rather have American soldiers killed over innocent Iraq's

I am sure some of them would rather give their lives trying to kill someone they are FIGHTING rather then an innocent 5 year old you idiot

[barefoot]

according to some people in the thread, we should be doing the exact same thing to his people. i understand military casualties in war, and even some accidental civilian casualties, but what kind of sick person is FOR the killing of innocents specifically? i know you probably are not, but there has been more than one person in this thread who has alluded to it or just flat out said it.
I really hope no one seriously is for it.

[UNC41]

For those people that want to go over there and nuke the whole Middle East don't you understand that we'd then be terrorists ourselves. The people who carried out the the 9/11 attacks are terrorites because they came over here and all of those innocent people. I agree that they are terrorists and should be dealt with. However, by blowing up the Middle East we would be killing millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with terrorism. Killing those innocent people who have no correlation with terrorists activies would make us no better than the others.

[bseitz]

For those people that want to go over there and nuke the whole Middle East don't you understand that we'd then be terrorists ourselves. The people who carried out the the 9/11 attacks are terrorites because they came over here and all of those innocent people. I agree that they are terrorists and should be dealt with. However, by blowing up the Middle East we would be killing millions of innocent people who have nothing to do with terrorism. Killing those innocent people who have no correlation with terrorists activies would make us no better than the others.
I recall seeing a lot of those "innocent civilians" cheering in the aftermath of 9/11...

[UNC41]

I recall seeing a lot of those "innocent civilians" cheering in the aftermath of 9/11...

But what about the ones that weren't? Do they deserve to die too? Even the ones that were cheering. I don't know if we can justify killing them because they were. Sure it is a dispicable thing for them to do, but if they did not take part I don't know that we can decide that they must die.

[bseitz]

But what about the ones that weren't? Do they deserve to die too? Even the ones that were cheering. I don't know if we can justify killing them because they were. Sure it is a dispicable thing for them to do, but if they did not take part I don't know that we can decide that they must die.
Someone who choses to live among barbarians shouldn't be surprised when bombs rain down on their heads. If your town had a rally and thousands turned out to cheer the slaughter of innocent civilians in another country, would you stay there?

[jrock5730]

Someone who choses to live among barbarians shouldn't be surprised when bombs rain down on their heads. If your town had a rally and thousands turned out to cheer the slaughter of innocent civilians in another country, would you stay there?

You are a stupid fuck!

[bseitz]

You are a stupid fuck!
Brilliant. Just brilliant.

[RJ2kWJ]

You are a stupid fuck!
Nope I would say that was a good analogy and it made perfect sense.

[ss10mets]

How do you know there weren't people that were outraged and were too scared to say anything about it?? You do realize how bad it is over there and our media doesn't exactly cover every aspect of a story.

[bseitz]

How do you know there weren't people that were outraged and were too scared to say anything about it?? You do realize how bad it is over there and our media doesn't exactly cover every aspect of a story.
There are 2 significant differences between Iraq and most other authoritarian societies: everybody had guns, and there were no physical barriers preventing people from leaving (think North Korea or Cuba). If the people don't have the courage to rise up as so many others have throughout history, or if they choose to stay despite the conditions, that's on them. Of all the miscalculations we made in planning for the aftermath of the war, the biggest was underestimating the cowardice of the Iraqi people. Had they pointed out the bad guys from the beginning, we wouldn't need to destroy their neighborhoods to get them. We made the mistake of not forcing the Iraqi people into the game from the start. We should have told them that any attacks from your village will result in our leveling the place. You wouldn't need to flatten too many before they got the message: either take care of these animals yourself or point them out to us. Silence equals complicity. At some point, the Iraqi people are going to have to be held accountable for their condition. They've been given a chance that few countries ever get. Let's see if they were ever worthy of our help.

[TwoStepFF]

Someone who choses to live among barbarians shouldn't be surprised when bombs rain down on their heads. If your town had a rally and thousands turned out to cheer the slaughter of innocent civilians in another country, would you stay there?
:thumbsup :thumbsup

[TwoStepFF]

There are 2 significant differences between Iraq and most other authoritarian societies: everybody had guns, and there were no physical barriers preventing people from leaving (think North Korea or Cuba). If the people don't have the courage to rise up as so many others have throughout history, or if they choose to stay despite the conditions, that's on them. Of all the miscalculations we made in planning for the aftermath of the war, the biggest was underestimating the cowardice of the Iraqi people. Had they pointed out the bad guys from the beginning, we wouldn't need to destroy their neighborhoods to get them. We made the mistake of not forcing the Iraqi people into the game from the start. We should have told them that any attacks from your village will result in our leveling the place. You wouldn't need to flatten too many before they got the message: either take care of these animals yourself or point them out to us. Silence equals complicity. At some point, the Iraqi people are going to have to be held accountable for their condition. They've been given a chance that few countries ever get. Let's see if they were ever worthy of our help.

very well stated

[Seankel]

it was estimated that Saddam killed 3-5 million people under his 20 year reign. ( I got that number out of National Geographic) Those were his OWN people. Do the math.
I believe those numbers include the Kurds he gassed with US backing.

[Seankel]

I recall seeing a lot of those "innocent civilians" cheering in the aftermath of 9/11...
Those cheering people you saw weren't in the streets of Iraq. It came out shortly after those clips were aired on TV that the networks had used stock footage of cheering people and burning American flags.

[bseitz]

Those cheering people you saw weren't in the streets of Iraq. It came out shortly after those clips were aired on TV that the networks had used stock footage of cheering people and burning American flags.
No, you're right. Iraq declared a day of public mourning in support of the U.S. :rolleyes:

[Seankel]

No, you're right. Iraq declared a day of public mourning in support of the U.S. :rolleyes:
No doubt there were some in Iraq who were pleased by 9/11 just like there are some on these boards that are pleased by 100,000+ dead Iraqi's.

[penn darvis]

I recall seeing a lot of those "innocent civilians" cheering in the aftermath of 9/11...
So that makes it alright?

By your logic, if terrorists were to kidnap and behead System and RJ2kWJ, it would be ok because they were cheering when innocent Iraqis were killed.

[penn darvis]

support you soldiers you un-american prick....

you parents were the ones that spit on soldiers returning from viet nam too weren't they? or were they hiding in Canada
Congratulations, you couldn't be farther from the truth. My parents were too young to fight in Vietnam, so there is no reason for them to have been hiding in Canada or spitting on soldiers.

And I never said I didn't support the troops. I feel bad for both those that die(and their families) as well as those who have to live with the fact that they killed innocent people who pose no threat to the United States now or at any time in the future. But I feel worse for the innocents who are being killed.

[penn darvis]

it was estimated that Saddam killed 3-5 million people under his 20 year reign. ( I got that number out of National Geographic) Those were his OWN people. Do the math.

Fewer terrorist anklebiters = smaller generation of terrorists to come. Sort of like the Rowe effect in the terrorism world.

So, Saddam was helping us out by starting to kill innocents years before we started?

[elf]

hey how do i ignore a user?

edit: nvm I got it

[TwoStepFF]

Congratulations, you couldn't be farther from the truth. My parents were too young to fight in Vietnam, so there is no reason for them to have been hiding in Canada or spitting on soldiers.

And I never said I didn't support the troops. I feel bad for both those that die(and their families) as well as those who have to live with the fact that they killed innocent people who pose no threat to the United States now or at any time in the future. But I feel worse for the innocents who are being killed.
please move to Iraq, please

[AdamCU81]

This thread has turned into a lost cause swimming in ignorance.

[penn darvis]

please move to Iraq, please
See, the problem is that I'm only 17 and I don't have a job. Believe me, getting out of a country in which killing babies is considered an accomplishment is one of my top priorities.

[nonewdirections]

I really hope no one seriously is for it.
me too. reading over the constant repetitions of the same thing makes me wonder if it's a figure of speech or literally meant.

[eric_dmbfan03]

Good... should be 100,000,000
Good God. That makes me sick.

[Dancing Ants]

See, the problem is that I'm only 17 and I don't have a job. Believe me, getting out of a country in which killing babies is considered an accomplishment is one of my top priorities.


go to the other one..you know, the other one..that utopia place...

[penn darvis]

go to the other one..you know, the other one..that utopia place...
I'm not looking for utopia, just some place where people have brains.

[mwjorgens]

why do you see that? cause i support troops? cause i love my country? cause i work for a defense contractor? cause i am patriotic?...


or maybe i base all my decision on logic and not personal beliefs
if you work for a defense contractor then it is all explained and i can accept your ignorant statements. if thats the case you should have mentioned it a lot earlier. and if thats the case you dont base it on logic you base it on $$$. so if thats true you dont love your country you dont support your troops, you are american; you love green!

[ambersonian]

And the Iraq's dont hate us because of ignorant fuckfaces, its mostly because of our freedoms and values and the role of women, and religon and so on
:lol hardly sweetheart....I've been reading thru this post and it is DISGUSTING how you are taking the horrific consequences of this war and twisting it into something to amuse yourself. Either you are just saying these blatently ignorant things to push peoples buttons or you really are part of the bigger problem in this world today...Sad SAD times....

[ambersonian]

and in the words of Toby keith (who is a democrat by the way)

"We'll put a boot in your ass cause it is the American way"

:rolleyes: :lol :rolleyes: :lol There's someone to quote....way to make a point, buddy....
This whole thread is off the hook...I can't even finish reading it because it makes me sick how many ignorant, closed minded idiots are in this world....INCLUDING TOBY KEITH!!!! lol

[ambersonian]

if you work for a defense contractor then it is all explained and i can accept your ignorant statements. if thats the case you should have mentioned it a lot earlier. and if thats the case you dont base it on logic you base it on $$$. so if thats true you dont love your country you dont support your troops, you are american; you love green!
Right on!! I was gonna say the SAME THING!! This war sure isn't hurting his wallet any!!

[bseitz]

I'm not looking for utopia, just some place where people have brains.
Like?

[illbackyouup_03]

Good... should be 100,000,000

Personally am not finding that too hilarious.

That's the equivalent to everybody in my town being killed, the city right beside my town, and all the towns around me. .

So all of my friends, my immediate family, and myself. Think of it in real terms. You'd be pretty fucking devastated if some country came and killed members of your family or your best friend all to "free you from your leader".

[illbackyouup_03]

I'll be the first one to say it and I'm not ashamed to do so:
How does the USA losing 3,000 civilians justify Iraq losing 100,000?



and 100 000 people from a country who had nothing to do with our 3000 no less.

[bseitz]

and 100 000 people from a country who had nothing to do with our 3000 no less.

It's nowhere near 100,000..

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118382

[illbackyouup_03]

It's nowhere near 100,000..

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118382

yeah that proves it

[bseitz]

yeah that proves it
I suppose you have an insightful refutation of their analysis? :lol

[illbackyouup_03]

I suppose you have an insightful refutation of their analysis? :lol

I'm not saying it is definitely 100 000. But sources for and against the number are likely very biased. Those arguing against the number would like the # to be as low as possible. Those arguing for would probably like the number to be as high as possible.

So in reality, we will never know for sure. Whether it was 20 000 or 100 000 however, the number is still very large, and, in my opinion, is a number that should be zero. The war should never have happened.

From our perspective we are just a few people sitting at a computer across the ocean. We don't know a single person out of that 20 000 or 100 000. From a person living in the countries perspective some of those people could be their wife, nephew, best friend, parents.
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BAM. . your brother just died. It's with good intentions though right?
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BAM. . twenty children from your town were just killed. Your best friends daughter. It's ok, it was with good intentions.

What fucking intentions Bush? Right now I'm just ranting so don't take this personally. Nothing anyone can say can justify the war in Iraq. If Bush is voted back into power, I will have lost all faith in the American people for good.

[bseitz]

I'm not saying it is definitely 100 000. But sources for and against the number are likely very biased. Those arguing against the number would like the # to be as low as possible. Those arguing for would probably like the number to be as high as possible.

So in reality, we will never know for sure. Whether it was 20 000 or 100 000 however, the number is still very large, and, in my opinion, is a number that should be zero. The war should never have happened.
So you have absolutely no idea what the number is but you're angry none the less? If most estimates put the number in the 10,000, to 30,000 range, I'd find that credible. A very large percentage of those killed had it coming and most were killed in an area where very few people were truly innocent, so we're left with a relatively small number of "innocents" killed as a result of combat operations.

And mass graves attest to the fact that the number was FAR from 0 when Saddam was in power.

[illbackyouup_03]

So you have absolutely no idea what the number is but you're angry none the less? If most estimates put the number in the 10,000, to 30,000 range, I'd find that credible. A very large percentage of those killed had it coming and most were killed in an area where very few people were truly innocent, so we're left with a relatively small number of "innocents" killed as a result of combat operations.

And mass graves attest to the fact that the number was FAR from 0 when Saddam was in power.

Just as I don't know the true number killed. You don't know the number of innocent people killed.

The argument is over.

[bseitz]

Just as I don't know the true number killed. You don't know the number of innocent people killed.

The argument is over.
We don't "know" a lot of things, that's why we make estimates. I happen to think, and can make a justifiable argument, that fewer innocent people were killed since we invaded Iraq than would have been killed had Saddam been left in power. Looks like you'd prefer to run away. Not surprising.

[illbackyouup_03]

We don't "know" a lot of things, that's why we make estimates. I happen to think, and can make a justifiable argument, that fewer innocent people were killed since we invaded Iraq than would have been killed had Saddam been left in power. Looks like you'd prefer to run away. Not surprising.

Right. . now personal attacks come in.
Since when did this turn into an argument about Saddam's policy? Bush told the US they were going to war because Iraq had WMD, they didn't. Bush told US that Iraq was "harboring terrorists". . . a lot of people are harboring terrorists.

Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. However, if 9/11 never happened, the war against Iraq would never have happened, and you know it. Explain that logic to me? Yes it is good that Saddam was ousted, but don't tell me Bush went to Iraq to save the Iraqi people from him.

Bush went to war, basically for the sake of going to war. He was the equivalent to a drunk getting up after being pushed over, and punching at anything that moves. Iraq just happened to be in his line of sight. Now that the war is over, the US is worse off than it was.

I'd be interested to here the views on what the iraqi people think the condition of their country now is.

[Davenumber40]

Please tell me you don't all believe that these numbers are accurate.

"The report was released just days before the U.S. presidential election, and the lead researcher said he wanted it that way."

This looks like what one may call a conflict on interest. I think I may release a report saying John Kerry eats 5 babies a day. If I release it, it must be true.

[Davenumber40]

Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with 9/11. However, if 9/11 never happened, the war against Iraq would never have happened, and you know it. Explain that logic to me? Yes it is good that Saddam was ousted, but don't tell me Bush went to Iraq to save the Iraqi people from him.

You're 100% correct. This was a direct result of 9/11. Saddam was a known terrorist, who has had weapons in the past. We set up an inspection program to keep an eye on him and eventually, when he thought we had lost interest, he prevented inspectors from doing their jobs. We couldn't sit and wait for him to strike us or his neighbors again. We tried using diplomatic means over and over with Saddam, and he proved over and over that force was the only thing that he would respond to. 9/11 showed us the danger of allowing known terrorists to operate freely. Not expecting you to agree, just tossing in my opinion.

[illbackyouup_03]

You're 100% correct. This was a direct result of 9/11. Saddam was a known terrorist, who has had weapons in the past. We set up an inspection program to keep an eye on him and eventually, when he thought we had lost interest, he prevented inspectors from doing their jobs. We couldn't sit and wait for him to strike us or his neighbors again. We tried using diplomatic means over and over with Saddam, and he proved over and over that force was the only thing that he would respond to. 9/11 showed us the danger of allowing known terrorists to operate freely. Not expecting you to agree, just tossing in my opinion.

I agree with what you're saying, and consider it correct.
I just don't think Bush attacked Saddam because he believed Saddam was a threat. That was simply his excuse.
Making Bush's actions wrong.

[Davenumber40]

Ok. I disagree but that is what democracy is all about. I just hope people understand each other's reasoning.

[TwoStepFF]

I agree with what you're saying, and consider it correct.
I just don't think Bush attacked Saddam because he believed Saddam was a threat. That was simply his excuse.
Making Bush's actions wrong.
Bush attacked Saddam because:
-The oil reserves
-Saddam tried to kill his father (his father definitley had influence on his decision in invading)
-He thought he had weapons
-Saddam does support terrorist

[TwoStep2888]

I agree with what you're saying, and consider it correct.
I just don't think Bush attacked Saddam because he believed Saddam was a threat. That was simply his excuse.
Making Bush's actions wrong.
:thumbsup

[RJ2kWJ]

:thumbsup
Holy 3 week old post Batman!!! :)

[nlaposta1]

We don't "know" a lot of things, that's why we make estimates. I happen to think, and can make a justifiable argument, that fewer innocent people were killed since we invaded Iraq than would have been killed had Saddam been left in power. Looks like you'd prefer to run away. Not surprising.

well by that demented logic, and you're just trying to help innocent people.....

I look forward to the US invasion of the Congo.

And there is such a thing as pacifism. look up the fucking word. there's a difference between trying to find a peaceful solution and killing innocent people because of your 'estimations'. personal attacks are pointless when you're hiding behind your computer screen.