So. . .100 000 Iraqi's eh?

[illbackyouup_03]

I don't want to trivialize 9/11 with this thread. .

9/11 casualties, vs Iraqi and American casualties

The fact is, USA and Bush is the bigger terrorist.
And even after the fact, most would agree that the U.S. isn't much more secure now than it was directly after 9/11, besides being the proud home of enormous amounts of paranoia.

[mwjorgens]

And even after the fact, most would agree that the U.S. isn't much more secure now than it was directly after 9/11
i think a lot of people would tell you the US is safer and the world is safer, when in fact it is less safe. how people dont realize that is beyond me. i guess they just hold their party affiliations so close that they cant realize whats going on in the real world.

[saygoodbye12]

I don't want to trivialize 9/11 with this thread. .

9/11 casualties, vs Iraqi and American casualties

The fact is, USA and Bush is the bigger terrorist.
And even after the fact, most would agree that the U.S. isn't much more secure now than it was directly after 9/11, besides being the proud home of enormous amounts of paranoia.
Hijacking planes and flying them into buildings or killing people in war.

Were we terrorists during WWII, WWI or any other war where people lost their lives?

[System]

honostly, i don't think 100,000 was enough, out troops are still dieing....

keep killing them till we don't loose any more troops

[Rob]

That's the most pathetic logic I have ever seen.

[System]

That's the most pathetic logic I have ever seen.


how so?

[sliver108]

an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind

[opiskelija]

Well I love the construct of this perceived threat throughout the US since September 11th. Not to negate the tragic loss on that one day, but in the big scope of violent deaths in the United States, it is a relatively small number. Just to through this statistic at you, between 1990-2000 over 225,000 people were murdered in the United States! Notice the rhetoric, the War on Terror is to protect the 'homeland' Statistically, individual Americans are no safer now than they were 5 years ago. People have built up this irrational fear of terror attacks, by default, the terrorists can claim a partial victory.

[System]

an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind


one american eye for 1000 iraqi eyes doesn't though.

leaves us with one less terrorist state in the world

[System]

Well I love the construct of this perceived threat throughout the US since September 11th. Not to negate the tragic loss on that one day, but in the big scope of violent deaths in the United States, it is a relatively small number. Just to through this statistic at you, between 1990-2000 over 225,000 people were murdered in the United States! Notice the rhetoric, the War on Terror is to protect the 'homeland' Statistically, individual Americans are no safer now than they were 5 years ago. People have built up this irrational fear of terror attacks, by default, the terrorists can claim a partial victory.


go back to norway, till you live in a super power nation that people hate and worry that friends of your where on those jets, and family memebers that are pilots that could have been flying.


Norway is still safe cause there is nothign there that anyone wants.....

[Newfiedmbfan]

Holy fuck. I can't beleive the stuff in this thread. Are you saying an American life is more valuable than a person of another country?

[opiskelija]

one american eye for 1000 iraqi eyes doesn't though.

leaves us with one less terrorist state in the world

or one huge mess with 3000 new terrorists for every 1000 Iraqis killed.

Does the US really have the political will domestically to be in Iraq for another 2-5 years?

[System]

Holy fuck. I can't beleive the stuff in this thread. Are you saying an American life is more valuable than a person of another country?

to me, yes

[opiskelija]

go back to norway, till you live in a super power nation that people hate and worry that friends of your where on those jets, and family memebers that are pilots that could have been flying.


Norway is still safe cause there is nothign there that anyone wants.....

where are you getting Norway from?

I am an American citizen, and have always flown quite frequently. what is the point you are trying to make with this post?

[System]

or one huge mess with 3000 new terrorists for every 1000 Iraqis killed.

Does the US really have the political will domestically to be in Iraq for another 2-5 years?



If bush wins, he will do what is necessary

if kerry wins, he will say he needs to do what he said that he should do but, he will do what he thinks other countrys what to do and then he will have to ask if the Iraqies have gay daughters and that he sould really go there and fight himself cause he has three purple hearts

[System]

where are you getting Norway from?

I am an American citizen, and have always flown quite frequently. what is the point you are trying to make with this post?


the world is not a sugar coated as everyone thinks it is. wake up and assume the risk of what is going on, america did that, we sent our troops to fight and try to solve the problem

[opiskelija]

If bush wins, he will do what is necessary

if kerry wins, he will say he needs to do what he said that he should do but, he will do what he thinks other countrys what to do and then he will have to ask if the Iraqies have gay daughters and that he sould really go there and fight himself cause he has three purple hearts

unfortunately, there is a limit to what Bush could do. Total hegemony is impossible by a democratic country. Sorry to burst your bubble.

I'm not sure what kerry will do, but it can't be much worse than the current policy.

[Holla9]

Holy fuck. I can't beleive the stuff in this thread. Are you saying an American life is more valuable than a person of another country?


More valuable than Iraqis? Sure.

[opiskelija]

the world is not a sugar coated as everyone thinks it is. wake up and assume the risk of what is going on, america did that, we sent our troops to fight and try to solve the problem

the world is also not as simple as you make it out to be.

what problem was our government trying to solve?

ridding a state of Weapons of Mass Destruction?

removal of a regime?

liberation?

expanding economic and political hegemony?

making America safer? how?

all of the above?

How long will it take to win the peace, how much will it cost, is this even possible, was the amount spent justified by whatever we determine will be the end result?

please, enlighten me since you seem to have all of the answers.

[Newfiedmbfan]

More valuable than Iraqis? Sure.
This is a sad statement. Ppl like you give Americans a bad name.

[Newfiedmbfan]

to me, yes
Than you are a sad individual. I can't beleive what I am hearing here. I am shocked actually.

I think the world would be a safer place without Americans to be honest.

[jrock5730]

the world is not a sugar coated as everyone thinks it is. wake up and assume the risk of what is going on, america did that, we sent our troops to fight and try to solve the problem

You are fucking sick in the head. We didn't go after the terrorist, we went after Sadamm. I don't see how you think its ok that thousands of lives have been lost for absolutely NOTHING!!!! I hate people that think like you. I love how people call Iraq a terrorist state, when clearly that was not the case before we got there.

[System]

You are fucking sick in the head. We didn't go after the terrorist, we went after Sadamm. I don't see how you think its ok that thousands of lives have been lost for absolutely NOTHING!!!! I hate people that think like you. I love how people call Iraq a terrorist state, when clearly that was not the case before we got there.

Coming from you, i will take sick in the head a compliment.

Thank you,

T

[Newfiedmbfan]

You are fucking sick in the head. We didn't go after the terrorist, we went after Sadamm. I don't see how you think its ok that thousands of lives have been lost for absolutely NOTHING!!!! I hate people that think like you. I love how people call Iraq a terrorist state, when clearly that was not the case before we got there.
I agree. There are many more terrorists in Iraq now than were ever there before.

America attacked a country under a veil of lies.

[System]

Than you are a sad individual. I can't beleive what I am hearing here. I am shocked actually.

I think the world would be a safer place without Americans to be honest.



If you don't like it, get the fuck out

If you aren't a citizen and don't like it...start learning german. Cause that is what you all would be speaking now

[System]

I agree. There are many more terrorists in Iraq now than were ever there before.

America attacked a country under a veil of lies.


just one quick point...WWII was started and escalated before America got involved, everyone new what was going on but they choose to ignore it.

The leaders of this country new what was going on and choose to do something about it....

[Holla9]

This is a sad statement. Ppl like you give Americans a bad name.

I really don't care. Comparing an American to an Iraqi is like comparing a house dog to a coyote. Which would you rather see killed?

[jrock5730]

Coming from you, i will take sick in the head a compliment.

Thank you,

T

You are disturbed. I only hope my children will be nothing like you, but I will teach them, so there is no chance of that.

[System]

I really don't care. Comparing an American to an Iraqi is like comparing a house dog to a coyote. Which would you rather see killed?



coyote, unless the house dog was providing a threat to my family. then protection of my family and my house comes first...at all costs.....

[Newfiedmbfan]

If you don't like it, get the fuck out

If you aren't a citizen and don't like it...start learning german. Cause that is what you all would be speaking now
WWII is much different than the war we are fighting now. We started this one without cause. We lied about why we were going to war. We went alone.

Don't cover up the lies by trying to tug at the heart strings. It doesn't work.

[opiskelija]

If you don't like it, get the fuck out

If you aren't a citizen and don't like it...start learning german. Cause that is what you all would be speaking now

what are you implying? that Hussein had global ambitions? Iraq prior to 2003 was essentially regionally isolated! How could Iraqi influence have spread any further. Germany under Hitler did have ambitions continentally, and some hegemonic tendencies outside of Europe, but there would not have been enough Germans to come near conquering the United States from a practical matter!

Please come back to reality.

[jrock5730]

The leaders of this country new what was going on and choose to do something about it....

BULLSHIT!!! They didn't have a fucking clue what was going on, and that becomes more and more obvious everyday.

[System]

You are disturbed. I only hope my children will be nothing like you, but I will teach them, so there is no chance of that.



Again, thank you. I hold my head high knowing stuff that I do in my job has liberated millions of people andprovided aid to countless more.

I make weapons of war, I provide tools for the military to do their job. I am proud of that.

[System]

WWII is much different than the war we are fighting now. We started this one without cause. We lied about why we were going to war. We went alone.

Don't cover up the lies by trying to tug at the heart strings. It doesn't work.


how is WW2 different? Germany was out to destroy the way of life for Europe and Japan for asia, The terrorist are trying to destroy our way of life...same damn thing,

[System]

what are you implying? that Hussein had global ambitions? Iraq prior to 2003 was essentially regionally isolated! How could Iraqi influence have spread any further. Germany under Hitler did have ambitions continentally, and some hegemonic tendencies outside of Europe, but there would not have been enough Germans to come near conquering the United States from a practical matter!

Please come back to reality.


hussein had ambitions to control oil, hence global ambitions


i live in reality, i don't know where you are at, but i might try to visit la la land once

[opiskelija]

The terrorist are trying to destroy our way of life...same damn thing,

TERRORIST DOES NOT IMPLY MUSLIM

[System]

BULLSHIT!!! They didn't have a fucking clue what was going on, and that becomes more and more obvious everyday.


Obvious how? from the liberal media? I don't believe a damn thing I hear on the news, i do my own research and come to my own conclusions thank you

[Newfiedmbfan]

So how exactly are Iraqi's posing a threat to your family?

[System]

TERRORIST DOES NOT IMPLY MUSLIM


how many terrorists in the middle east now are not muslim?

I myself have muslims friends but when i see muslim exchange students at a college celbrating 9-11 it leaves a bad bad taste in my mouth

[jrock5730]

Obvious how? from the liberal media? I don't believe a damn thing I hear on the news, i do my own research and come to my own conclusions thank you

Oh I see, so you do what the Bush administration does, makes perfect sense now. Wake the fuck up man.

[System]

So how exactly are Iraqi's posing a threat to your family?


right now, more to my friends over there.


but before, there was a possible threat from them and their pursuit of WMDs and the relationships, be it distant, with terrorists.

[jrock5730]

how many terrorists in the middle east now are not muslim?

I myself have muslims friends but when i see muslim exchange students at a college celbrating 9-11 it leaves a bad bad taste in my mouth

That dick you sucked last night probably left a bad taste in your mouth too, but I don't hear you complaining about that. :lol :lol

[System]

Oh I see, so you do what the Bush administration does, makes perfect sense now. Wake the fuck up man.


do you konw what was said in the briefings? no
do you know what was in the intellegincen? no

do I? no
do i trust out goverment to make the right decsions? yes

[System]

That dick you sucked last night probably left a bad taste in your mouth too, but I don't hear you complaining about that. :lol :lol


how does my sexual orientation have anything to do with what i am saying?

[opiskelija]

Obvious how? from the liberal media? I don't believe a damn thing I hear on the news, i do my own research and come to my own conclusions thank you

Why is that not a single person in the administration can offer some semblance of a coherent answer to my previously listed questions in this thread. The main justification has been molded and 'clarified' for the last 2 years, and for almost 2 years they have not given a single clear answer to what is the ultimate goal of this Iraq operation and what type of cost it will be. Reasonable questions from voters and people who analyze things such as this. I don't expect you to give any sort of answer because you have such a twisted sense of reality.

[jrock5730]

right now, more to my friends over there.


but before, there was a possible threat from them and their pursuit of WMDs and the relationships, be it distant, with terrorists.

I truly hope none of your friends get blown up by the explosives we left unguarded. There was no relationship between Iraq and the terrorist, its been stated over and over.

[jrock5730]

how does my sexual orientation have anything to do with what i am saying?

It doesn't, I was just coming to my own conclusions.

[System]

alright, new plan...we send enough troops over their to protect everything. hence making it the 51st state.

I say we name it Bush, with a capital named Rumsfeld

[System]

It doesn't, I was just coming to my own conclusions.



Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

[Newfiedmbfan]

right now, more to my friends over there.


but before, there was a possible threat from them and their pursuit of WMDs and the relationships, be it distant, with terrorists.
Your friends don't have to be there. They were sent there based on lies.

"possible threat"...you don't fucking attack a nation based on a possible threat. Why haven't we attacked Iran/North Korea? B/C George wanted to finished what his daddy's couldn't. B/c he thought it would help lower oil prices (brilliant!), b/c he thought it would cover up the fact that he hasn't captured Bin Laden, b/c he wanted to provide millions of revenue to American companies for the clean up.

[System]

Your friends don't have to be there. They were sent there based on lies.

"possible threat"...you don't fucking attack a nation based on a possible threat. Why haven't we attacked Iran/North Korea? B/C George wanted to finished what his daddy's couldn't. B/c he thought it would help lower oil prices (brilliant!), b/c he thought it would cover up the fact that he hasn't captured Bin Laden, b/c he wanted to provide millions of revenue to American companies for the clean up.



if we could win, we would go after north korea, but the threat of war with china is too huge

[jrock5730]

do you konw what was said in the briefings? no
do you know what was in the intellegincen? no

do I? no
do i trust out goverment to make the right decsions? yes

Well thats your fuck-up then.

[System]

Well thats your fuck-up then.


if you don't like it, get the fuck out

[opiskelija]

how many terrorists in the middle east now are not muslim?

I myself have muslims friends but when i see muslim exchange students at a college celbrating 9-11 it leaves a bad bad taste in my mouth

yeah, so does having a flight to JFK diverted to canada.

how many terrorists are not in the middle east?

and this is something really twisted. You take the converse of this argument about 'terrorists' in Iraq right now and apply it someplace else. Strictly hypothetical in nature.

There is a grand coalition to take over the US in 100 years. There is an army of occupation in the country and your great-grandchildren defy orders of the occupying forces and take up arms. Are your great-grandchildren terrorists or fighting for their country's sovereignty?

[Newfiedmbfan]

So you only fight a war you can win? Not a war that you beleive in? You are brilliant man. Many more countries poise threats much more immediate to the United States than Iraq but they have been left alone. America the fucking bully.

If this war wasn't taking place George would be getting his fucking ass kicked over the horrible state of domestic affairs and the economy. It is smoke screen plain and simple.

[Holla9]

Your friends don't have to be there. They were sent there based on lies.

It doesn't matter why they were sent there, they do have to be there. I have 2 close friends that were there, and are thankfully home safe. I know a good amount of people who are still over there.

[Newfiedmbfan]

if you don't like it, get the fuck out
Before George ppl were allowed to disagree with the Government.

You say the terrorists are taking away our style of living. I say George is doing it. You are not for Democracy if you say that ppl should get out if they don't agree with the government.

[jrock5730]

Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups

your words: Obvious how? from the liberal media? I don't believe a damn thing I hear on the news, i do my own research and come to my own conclusions thank you.

I guess no assuming goes on here right?

[Newfiedmbfan]

It doesn't matter why they were sent there, they do have to be there. I have 2 close friends that were there, and are thankfully home safe. I know a good amount of people who are still over there.
I am glad they are home safe. But that doesn't mean that the war was the right thing to do. America has zero respect world wide.

[opiskelija]

Before George ppl were allowed to disagree with the Government.

You say the terrorists are taking away our style of living. I say George is doing it. You are not for Democracy if you say that ppl should get out if they don't agree with the government.

Of course this person is not for democracy. It has already been stated that Bush should be able to do what he wants to finish the job (implied complete hegemon). By default, a complete hegemon cannot be democratic, just by looking at averages of the chance that people will have differing opinions.

[jrock5730]

if you don't like it, get the fuck out

When the day comes that I can, I will, trust me on this.

[System]

I am glad they are home safe. But that doesn't mean that the war was the right thing to do. America has zero respect world wide.



zero respect? well then, we will cut of aid see how the world fairs then...

it would fall apart in months...

[Newfiedmbfan]

zero respect? well then, we will cut of aid see how the world fairs then...

it would fall apart in months...
Selective responding. I love it. Typical republican.

[jrock5730]

zero respect? well then, we will cut of aid see how the world fairs then...

it would fall apart in months...

Stop making assumptions.

[System]

Selective responding. I love it. Typical republican.


damn proud of it too

[Newfiedmbfan]

Avoid the issues. Good job. I guess I can't agrue. George is going to win and this has been his strategy all along.

Lets see where the country is in four years after it has been attacked again, the economy is further down the crapper, America is further isolated on a world stage, America's youth are gone needlessly to war (maybe you or your kids), and America is further into debt and floundering under eight years of the worse leadership any nation in the world has ever expereicned.

[jrock5730]

Avoid the issues. Good job. I guess I can't agrue. George is going to win and this has been his strategy all along.

Lets see where the country is in four years after it has been attacked again, the economy is further down the crapper, America is further isolated on a world stage, America's youth are gone needlessly to war (maybe you or your kids), and America is further into debt and floundering under eight years of the worse leadership any nation in the world has ever expereicned.

The sad part is, we'll have our own countrymen to thank for this.

[System]

Avoid the issues. Good job. I guess I can't agrue. George is going to win and this has been his strategy all along.

Lets see where the country is in four years after it has been attacked again, the economy is further down the crapper, America is further isolated on a world stage, America's youth are gone needlessly to war (maybe you or your kids), and America is further into debt and floundering under eight years of the worse leadership any nation in the world has ever expereicned.



if my kid volunteered to join the military and was sent to war. i would be damn proud of him. damn proud

[seantrantham]

You are fucking sick in the head. We didn't go after the terrorist, we went after Sadamm. I don't see how you think its ok that thousands of lives have been lost for absolutely NOTHING!!!! I hate people that think like you. I love how people call Iraq a terrorist state, when clearly that was not the case before we got there.

Actually, we did go after terrorists. We disassembled the Taliban in Afganistan, and helped them gain footing toward democracy

I agree. There are many more terrorists in Iraq now than were ever there before.
America attacked a country under a veil of lies.

Actually, the terror network of Abu Musab Zarqawi has been in Iraq long before we invaded. They had been hiding under their rocks, and when the US and the rest of the coalition invaded to rid the world of a horrible tyrant, the evil came out to defend their little terror hold call Fallujah. Hopefully after Bush is re-elected, there will be many bombs dropped on that place and the amount of evil in this world will be lowered by a great percentage.

Than you are a sad individual. I can't beleive what I am hearing here. I am shocked actually.
I think the world would be a safer place without Americans to be honest.
First, it's Then, not Than. Second I before E except after c (beleive??). Third, here's a dictonary (http://www.dictionary.com) , use it.

[jrock5730]

Actually, we did go after terrorists. We disassembled the Taliban in Afganistan, and helped them gain footing toward democracy

yeah, those elections went very well in Afghanistan last I saw. Osama bin Laden is still there.


First, it's Then, not Than. Second I before E except after c (beleive??). Third, here's a dictonary (http://www.dictionary.com) , use it.

If you are going to tell someone to use a dictionary, try using one yourself first you idiot.

[seantrantham]

D'oh

[seantrantham]

But, at least there were elections...something that hasn't happened before..fuck stick

[jrock5730]

But, at least there were elections...something that hasn't happened before..fuck stick

I would not call an election complete with fraud something to be proud of.

[seantrantham]

Who said that the election was fraudulent?

[jrock5730]

Who said that the election was fraudulent?

The 15 other men running in the election, I would like to believe they dropped out for a reason. It hasn't been proven yet I don't think, but I imagine it won't be too much longer.

[seantrantham]

The 15 other men running in the election, I would like to believe they dropped out for a reason. It hasn't been proven yet I don't think, but I imagine it won't be too much longer.
And if you think that the US had something to do with people voting more than once for the candidate that the US likes for the position, then I am disgusted with your lack of faith in America.

[jrock5730]

And if you think that the US had something to do with people voting more than once for the candidate that the US likes for the position, then I am disgusted with your lack of faith in America.

I never said that, but I do have a lack of faith of America right now, and rightfully so.

[seantrantham]

I never said that, but I do have a lack of faith of America right now, and rightfully so.
Why?

[jrock5730]

Why?

Do you really need me to answer this for you?

[Rob]

Sick fucks. That's all I can say. It's amazing to think somebody so proud to be an American can be so blind as to the ideals upon which this country was founded.

I am ashamed to be lumped in with people like System. Truly ashamed. Unfortunately, the world views America as the exact type of sick, demented individual that System represents.

By the way, we can go right ahead and cut aid. The resulting embargos and cutoffs in trade would bring this country to its knees. Like it or not, we are part of a world community, and in a balance. We cannot ignore our global responsibilities. Bush does not understand this as he continues his holy crusade. The United States will not be a world power for much longer- history has shown that there cannot be a world superpower for long. We're choosing the wrong time to piss off the rest of the world, as it will be a simple matter for somebody to come along and kick us in the ass in the foreseable future.

[EatSleepJeep]

If you don't like it, get the fuck out

If you aren't a citizen and don't like it...start learning german. Cause that is what you all would be speaking now

If you like this Iraq war so much, you get the fuck over there and fight it.

[ss10mets]

I am ashamed to be an American with some of these posts... :(

People wonder why the world hates us?? Look in the mirror.

How would you feel when a Muslim says they wish more attacks were made on 9/11 or if they killed us all?? It's basically the equivelant to your statements.

May god have mercy on us...

[Holla9]

I am ashamed to be an American with some of these posts... :(

People wonder why the world hates us?? Look in the mirror.

How would you feel when a Muslim says they wish more attacks were made on 9/11 or if they killed us all?? It's basically the equivelant to your statements.

May god have mercy on us...

Why should I care about people that hate me? I don't sit around thinking about how some dirtbag in a 3rd world country would kill me if he had the chance. Fuck them, I don't care about them.

[ss10mets]

Why should I care about people that hate me? I don't sit around thinking about how some dirtbag in a 3rd world country would kill me if he had the chance. Fuck them, I don't care about them.

Hence what they think and the cycle begins you moron... think outside the box

[Holla9]

Hence what they think and the cycle begins you moron... think outside the box

Why should I? What will happen if I don't?

[mwjorgens]

Does the US really have the political will domestically to be in Iraq for another 2-5 years?
2-5 years? well we better have a lot stronger will cuase its gonna be much longer than that.

[ss10mets]

Why should I? What will happen if I don't?

Nothing because in the grand sceme of things... you mean nothing thank god.

Hopefully our politicians can use some brainpower and think of other ways to win this war other then persecuting people due to their religious beliefs... (isn't that why the pilgrams came over in the first place and all of your relatives, to be able to live in peace while believing in whatever they respectfully believed in???)

[illbackyouup_03]

Why should I? What will happen if I don't?

Because with your obvious intelligence and foresight you will probably become president and kill another 100 000 people unneccesarily.

You're last couple posts were so dumb I won't even warrant them with a response, you won't understand.

[Holla9]

Nothing because in the grand sceme of things... you mean nothing thank god.


What do you mean in the grand scheme of things? What do you contribute to society?


Because with your obvious intelligence and foresight you will probably become president and kill another 100 000 people unneccesarily.

You're last couple posts were so dumb I won't even warrant them with a response, you won't understand.

Aren't you the person who said the government shouldn't have full control over military personnel and that soldiers should able to leave a war if they're just one day sitting around doing nothing, and decide they want to leave?

[RJ2kWJ]

Aren't you the person who said the government shouldn't have full control over military personnel and that soldiers should able to leave a war if they're just one day sitting around doing nothing, and decide they want to leave?
LMAO!

[ss10mets]

What do you mean in the grand scheme of things? What do you contribute to society?

In the grand scheme of this war you idiot... none of us do, this is a war between people we used to fund and the rich men that thought that was a good idea.

[Holla9]

In the grand scheme of this war you idiot... none of us do, this is a war between people we used to fund and the rich men that thought that was a good idea.


Alright, so theres no use in me sitting around and worrying about it then :)

[ss10mets]

Alright, so theres no use in me sitting around and worrying about it then :)

You truely are a moron

[mwjorgens]

worry that friends of your where on those jets, and family memebers that are pilots that could have been flying.


you have friends/family that fly for the US? are they over there now?

[illbackyouup_03]

Aren't you the person who said the government shouldn't have full control over military personnel and that soldiers should able to leave a war if they're just one day sitting around doing nothing, and decide they want to leave?

Yes I was. I'm not seeing your point.

A person should never under any circumstances be forced to fight a war. Our life is our life, not the governments.

[angryfish]

I don't want to trivialize 9/11 with this thread. .

9/11 casualties, vs Iraqi and American casualties

The fact is, USA and Bush is the bigger terrorist.
And even after the fact, most would agree that the U.S. isn't much more secure now than it was directly after 9/11, besides being the proud home of enormous amounts of paranoia.

WOW, you are a complete moron...you have no idea what you ARE talking about(not "is")...9/11 wasn't a WAR

[slimbo]

go back to norway, till you live in a super power nation that people hate and worry that friends of your where on those jets, and family memebers that are pilots that could have been flying.


Norway is still safe cause there is nothign there that anyone wants.....

Well, for the first, Helsinki is not in Norway and just for the record, Norway got shitloads of oil that everyone wants...

I just wonder, since when did Iraqies start flying planes into US buildings?
:rolleyes:

[slimbo]

WOW, you are a complete moron...you have no idea what you ARE talking about(not "is")...9/11 wasn't a WAR

Well, this post is useless for anything but grammar lessons... plz, post this shit on the nDMBc part or something...

[angryfish]

9/11 wasn't a war...9/11 wasn't a war...9/11 wasn't a war, clear?? ANY KIND OF A COMPARISON ,ESPECIALLY ON DEATH TOLL, IS RIDICULOUS!

[illbackyouup_03]

9/11 wasn't a war...9/11 wasn't a war...9/11 wasn't a war, clear?? ANY KIND OF A COMPARISON ,ESPECIALLY ON DEATH TOLL, IS RIDICULOUS!

Right, it wasn't a war. Did we fix 9/11 by killing 100 000 Iraqi people?

By the way, the proper grammer. . . is. . . not are, read up on it. Good old irony eh? Calling me a moron, and correcting a "mistake" I never made.

[angryfish]

Did Abraham Lincoln abolish slavery by killing thousands of Americans??? YEP

Cause it had to be done...Weird how that works out

[illbackyouup_03]

Did Abraham Lincoln abolish slavery by killing thousands of Americans??? YEP

Cause it had to be done...Weird how that works out

Oh yeah I forgot, terrorism has been abolished! Silly me! I take all previous comments back. VOTE BUSH BACK INTO POWER! OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!

[ss10mets]

Oh yeah I forgot, terrorism has been abolished! Silly me! I take all previous comments back. VOTE BUSH BACK INTO POWER! OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!

:lol :lol :lol :lol

[jrock5730]

Oh yeah I forgot, terrorism has been abolished! Silly me! I take all previous comments back. VOTE BUSH BACK INTO POWER! OUR LORD AND SAVIOR!

Nice!

[Rob]

Because the civil war was about slavery. Brilliant argument.

[clemson357]

The fact is, USA and Bush is the bigger terrorist.....


The fact is that this thread is garbage.

you are comparing a terrorist act to a war. there is a little difference.

the terrorist act was AIMED at killing men, women, and children, while they worked peacefully or went about their everyday life. That was its PURPOSE. not to mention that after the accomplished their mission, the people involved ran and hid, taking no responsibility for their actions and hoping to never suffer the consiquences

a war, while everyone agrees is awful and a last resort, is motivated by good intentions. the united states, in the interest of protecting its innocent civilians and those of other countries, invaded Iraq. Basically the idea was, if you want to be a shitty, worthless country full of violence that is your own deal, but now you are harboring and funding terrorists. You have lost the right to burn in your own self-created hell that you call a country, we are taking over and installing a peaceful democracy. Nobody ever said "hey, war is fun, lets invade iraq. when we are done killing, lets leave them with no stable government, thereby not taking responsibility for our actions." We knew when we went into in that we would have to stay until the region was stable, and we accepted that responsibility. We knew when we went into it that people would die, even some innocent people, but sometimes your hand is forced. Nobody likes the fact that we are at war. NOBODY.

I am not talking about peoples opinions, these are facts.

whether or not you agree with the war, whether or not you think we should have been more worried about N. Korea of Afghanistan, whether or not you think the war is going to be succesful, and whether or not you like the current administration; you have to be a fucking idiot to compare a terrorist act to a war.







"I think we can all agree that finally, we'd all like to have peace on earth. So, I figure if we just think there, then maybe somehow it will become habitual and then hey, what do you know, the outside world will be as peaceful as it is in here." -DJM 3-29-03

[Rob]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Besides, who is to say that they were good intentions? Look beyond the words to the actions for once.

[crosscg]

Yes I was. I'm not seeing your point.

A person should never under any circumstances be forced to fight a war. Our life is our life, not the governments.
I can't believe this garbage is still floating around. If someone joins the military they know they might have to go to war, without having a choice in the matter. If they are dumb enough to join knowing they won't go to war then they are probably best of on the front lines as a shield or a bullet catcher or something.

[jrock5730]

I can't believe this garbage is still floating around. If someone joins the military they know they might have to go to war, without having a choice in the matter. If they are dumb enough to join knowing they won't go to war then they are probably best of on the front lines as a shield or a bullet catcher or something.

People will know for sure now not sign up for the military, although there will still be people who do, thank goodness.

[clemson357]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Besides, who is to say that they were good intentions? Look beyond the words to the actions for once.


you are right, President Bush secretly just wanted to kill 100's of thousands of people he didn't know. He is the biggest mass murderer of all time.

why don't you step past your own partisan opinions for one second?



what act of violence can you ever justify if all you look at is the act itself?
You can't even justify killing Osama Bin Laden himself. Why, because what did you just do? you ended a life. sorry, you aren't allowed to consider the greater good.

what do wars involve? Men with guns and bombs killing each other. That is all every war boils down to when all you consider is the act itself.

sorry, overthrowing Hitler wasn't justified. you went to war, and the only action in war is killing. You don't get to consider the genocide that was going on, sorry.

[Holla9]

You truely are a moron

Thats great that you think that, but I don't care what you think.

Yes I was. I'm not seeing your point.

A person should never under any circumstances be forced to fight a war. Our life is our life, not the governments.

Not when you sign a contract. When you sign that contract, you do what the government tells you to do. How would our military be effective if they didn't have to do what they are told? What if half of or troops decided they wanted to leave right now, and they were able to? What would happen to our other half that are still there? IT WOULD NOT WORK.

[jrock5730]

You don't get to consider the genocide that was going on, sorry.

What exactly do you think was genocide?

[angryfish]

Because the civil war was about slavery. Brilliant argument.


I said that it was about slavery?? Weird, I must have used that damn white font to type that part of it! The abolishment of slavery was a result of the civil war...

[illbackyouup_03]

Not when you sign a contract. When you sign that contract, you do what the government tells you to do. How would our military be effective if they didn't have to do what they are told? What if half of or troops decided they wanted to leave right now, and they were able to? What would happen to our other half that are still there? IT WOULD NOT WORK.

Then the US would realize that if its own troops were unwilling to fight in the war, maybe the war is being waged for the wrong reasons, and they would back out, and they would. The people within the United States are the United States, not the government. If nobody wants to fight in the military, that is what the country wants to do.

[angryfish]

It is funny how you Democrats call Bush out on using 9/11 to get votes for himself, but then you turn around and use 9/11 as a reason to get votes against Bush and for Kerry...

[jrock5730]

It is funny how you Democrats call Bush out on using 9/11 to get votes for himself, but then you turn around and use 9/11 as a reason to get votes against Bush and for Kerry...

Its even funnier how you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[illbackyouup_03]

a war, while everyone agrees is awful and a last resort, is motivated by good intentions. the united states, in the interest of protecting its innocent civilians and those of other countries, invaded Iraq.

whether or not you agree with the war, whether or not you think we should have been more worried about N. Korea of Afghanistan, whether or not you think the war is going to be succesful, and whether or not you like the current administration; you have to be a fucking idiot to compare a terrorist act to a war.


I respect your point of view. I fully understand the difference between 9/11 and the war on Iraq.

I'll change my original statement. Bush basically accomplished nothing by going to war with Iraq, and never really had much prospect of accomplishing anything. He had good intentions, but faulty reasoning. Being the leader of the biggest superpower in the world needs more responsibility than that.

The end result was 100 000 dead Iraqi's. Say he had good intentions all you want, but the bottom line is that the war on Iraq was based on nothing. You know it and I know it. Terrorism will always exist in some shape or form. The only way to fight it is though homeland securty and the promotion of peace.

Cue in WORLD WAR II! If It weren't for us we would all be speaking GERMAN! There is a main difference between World War II and the present situation. In world war II Germany was trying to take over the world. US went to war for the greater good. 9/11 was a terrorist attack, with the response of war. How can you beat hatred with more hatred? Sure we can stop Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and whoever the hell else we deem crazy, but MORE people will become terrorists, all over the world. There is probably terrorism in different forms going on in more places than we know.

Terrorism CAN'T be beaten through war, and the 100 000 casualties in Iraq certainly didn't get us any closer. So I repeat, Bush, unknowingly, has been the greatest evil.

[TwoStepFF]

I respect your point of view. I fully understand the difference between 9/11 and the war on Iraq.

I'll change my original statement. Bush basically accomplished nothing by going to war with Iraq, and never really had much prospect of accomplishing anything. He had good intentions, but faulty reasoning. Being the leader of the biggest superpower in the world needs more responsibility than that.

The end result was 100 000 dead Iraqi's. Say he had good intentions all you want, but the bottom line is that the war on Iraq was based on nothing. You know it and I know it. Terrorism will always exist in some shape or form. The only way to fight it is though homeland securty and the promotion of peace.

Cue in WORLD WAR II! If It weren't for us we would all be speaking GERMAN! There is a main difference between World War II and the present situation. In world war II Germany was trying to take over the world. US went to war for the greater good. 9/11 was a terrorist attack, with the response of war. How can you beat hatred with more hatred? Sure we can stop Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein and whoever the hell else we deem crazy, but MORE people will become terrorists, all over the world. There is probably terrorism in different forms going on in more places than we know.

Terrorism CAN'T be beaten through war, and the 100 000 casualties in Iraq certainly didn't get us any closer. So I repeat, Bush, unknowingly, has been the greatest evil.

very well stated, close the borders then terrorism would end...the only way

[EatSleepJeep]

Did Abraham Lincoln abolish slavery by killing thousands of Americans??? YEP

Cause it had to be done...Weird how that works out

The civil war began in 1861, and ramped up long before that. The emancipation proclamation wasn't issued until 1863. In fact the CSS fired the first shots of the war. What history classes did you take? Was it in one of those schools where they don't teach the facts of evolution either?

[clemson357]

What exactly do you think was genocide?

when thousands of jews were killed and buried in mass graves soley because of their religion/race, that is genocide.

[TwoStepFF]

when thousands of jews were killed and buried in mass graves soley because of their religion/race, that is genocide.
nooo, a genocide is the elimination of one race (but I think thats what you meant)....his plan was a total genocide but he didn't finish, wow I hate Hitler

[Holla9]

Then the US would realize that if its own troops were unwilling to fight in the war, maybe the war is being waged for the wrong reasons, and they would back out, and they would. The people within the United States are the United States, not the government. If nobody wants to fight in the military, that is what the country wants to do.

It would not work. There is absolutely no possible way.

[illbackyouup_03]

It would not work. There is absolutely no possible way.

If the States were being invaded and the families of soldiers and basic freedom were at risk, the soldiers would probably be a bit more motivated don't you think?

This is however not the case. It should be the soldier's call. Maybe regulations would need to be put in, a soldier can't physically just leave other troops while in battle. . but the point is, signing a contract isn't more important than someones life. If someone decides the risk of death trumps what they are actually fighting for, they should be allowed out, if the army doesn't work because of it, it doesn't work.

[MoBb]

go back to norway, till you live in a super power nation that people hate and worry that friends of your where on those jets, and family memebers that are pilots that could have been flying.


Norway is still safe cause there is nothign there that anyone wants.....


You sad, ignorant fuck! Helsinki is the main capitol of FINLAND, not Norway. You know, in Scandinavia? Did you know Norway was voted the best country in the world to live in? Does that sting a bit? :freak Your ignorant way of thinking doesn`t exactly make people around the world love USA - is that so hard to understand? The whole world were united after 9/11, and we joined up taking the taliban out. Too bad Bush didn`t know what the hell he was going in to, and/or really didn`t care to do his job before entering the country (Iraq).

Btw, I don`t think Americans in general know how much Europeans still love the US. Most of us do..Just sad seeing USA isolating itself more and more from the rest of the world. Saw a poll last night saying that, if Norwegians would vote in this upcoming election it would be a tie..Pretty shocking actually.

[Holla9]

If the States were being invaded and the families of soldiers and basic freedom were at risk, the soldiers would probably be a bit more motivated don't you think?

This is however not the case. It should be the soldier's call. Maybe regulations would need to be put in, a soldier can't physically just leave other troops while in battle. . but the point is, signing a contract isn't more important than someones life. If someone decides the risk of death trumps what they are actually fighting for, they should be allowed out, if the army doesn't work because of it, it doesn't work.

This is the bottom line:

When you join the military, you know the risks, one of them is being sent off to war. When you join the miltary, you train to kill. When you join the military, you follow orders.

If you don't like that, then you don't join. Its that simple. I honestly don't think anyone else here, even if they don't agree with this war, would agree that our military could be effective if soldiers could decide not to fight in any given war.

[JC10380]

If you don't like it, get the fuck out

If you aren't a citizen and don't like it...start learning german. Cause that is what you all would be speaking now

Sorry, I didn't read past the first page, but I saw this and had to post on it.

You're ignorant. How can you not see that we have made Iraq far more dangerous than it ever was before we got there. We are throwing fuel on the Anti-American fire by sending more and more troops over there. The one reason they hate us is because we have troops and bases in their "holy land." So, get your head out of your ass and realize that Bush is making the world more dangerous for Americans at home and abroad. He is overall making the world an unstable place. You can say that all people want freedom, but in all actuality some people don't want freedom. They want their higher power to be first, and they could give a shit about freedom. So we shouldn't be pushing our value system around the world. Just because we (Americans) value something, that doesn't make it right for the rest of the world. Open your eyes.

[illbackyouup_03]

This is the bottom line:

When you join the military, you know the risks, one of them is being sent off to war. When you join the miltary, you train to kill. When you join the military, you follow orders.

If you don't like that, then you don't join. Its that simple. I honestly don't think anyone else here, even if they don't agree with this war, would agree that our military could be effective if soldiers could decide not to fight in any given war.

I'd rather just not join. As well as many others I'm sure.

[dylanquirt]

If bush wins, he will do what is necessary

if kerry wins, he will say he needs to do what he said that he should do but, he will do what he thinks other countrys what to do and then he will have to ask if the Iraqies have gay daughters and that he sould really go there and fight himself cause he has three purple hearts

I really feel sorry for you and any teacher that you've had that tried to teach you anything.

[clemson357]

nooo, a genocide is the elimination of one race (but I think thats what you meant)....his plan was a total genocide but he didn't finish, wow I hate Hitler

thats what I said, the genocide that was going on, I didn't say it was completely accomplished.

but remember, we don't get to consider that. All you are allowed to look at is the act of war, not the accomplishments or the intentions, or the merits...

[TwoStepFF]

thats what I said, the genocide that was going on, I didn't say it was completely accomplished.

but remember, we don't get to consider that. All you are allowed to look at is the act of war, not the accomplishments or the intentions, or the merits...
true