You can watch "Stolen Honor" for free...

[saygoodbye12]

http://www.stolenhonor.com/documentary/watch-video.asp


I haven't watched it, don't know if I will...but my cousin emailed me the link so I figured I'd just pass it along. :)

[clemson357]

this is some of the most disturbing stuff I have heard.

[Dancing Ants]

republican propaganda.

[nonewdirections]

republican propaganda.
indeed. i'm almost done watching it. i don't feel the need to comment on it much more than i do farenheit 9/11

[Dancing Ants]

you truly are unbiased.

[saygoodbye12]

I put it on last night for a little while.

I'm no Viet Nam expert, so can someone tell me if these POWs were lying about being tortured? That was some sick shit. I turned it off after the men were talking about Jane Fonda.

I think to simply label the entire thing republican propoganda is insulting to those men who were prisoners for 6 years. I can't even imagine that. I don't think I could survive that kind of torture for that long. I truly admire those people.

[sliver108]

I been wanting to see it. I try to be "open minded". Check out new thread.

[nonewdirections]

you truly are unbiased.
thanks ;) if that was to me. i know i'm not unbiased at all, but i'll call it propaganda if i think it is.

about the POW's being tortured, i'm sure there is no question that they were and that it was horrible, and their testimony regarding that was a valuable piece of this documentary. the questionable part is how closely that relates to the protesters' cause. and addtionally whether john kerry should be portrayed as a ringleader, or the man who (along with jane fonda) sparked the entire protest and "lies" about the war. there are lies about everything, but on the other hand there was the my lai massacre, which, although it was an extreme event in its extent, could not have been the only one of its kind. the fact is, there was a lot of civilian killing because we didn't understand our enemy. for the same reason a lot of relatively innocent or entirely innocent people are dying in iraq. heavy-handed military forces end up killing a lot of civilians, and vietnam was no exception. to suggest otherwise as this video seemed to -- that our cause was noble and that we could do no wrong, was an ideological misinterpretation of the conflict.

i would have protested the vietnam war too because it was an unjust war carried out badly and was devastating to civilian populations (read up on cambodia too and see if you can find some sick justfication for that), but that does not that i support the actions against the troops! in fact, part of the reason why i would have stood against the vietnam war was because of the toll on the american side without a greater cause or a plan to win. at least if you watch this, try to take a balanced look at it. unlike many of the issues facing us today, this is a historical debate where there is a comfortable middle ground.

[sliver108]

thanks ;) if that was to me. i know i'm not unbiased at all, but i'll call it propaganda if i think it is.

about the POW's being tortured, i'm sure there is no question that they were and that it was horrible, and their testimony regarding that was a valuable piece of this documentary. the questionable part is how closely that relates to the protesters' cause. and addtionally whether john kerry should be portrayed as a ringleader, or the man who (along with jane fonda) sparked the entire protest and "lies" about the war. there are lies about everything, but on the other hand there was the my lai massacre, which, although it was an extreme event in its extent, could not have been the only one of its kind. the fact is, there was a lot of civilian killing because we didn't understand our enemy. for the same reason a lot of relatively innocent or entirely innocent people are dying in iraq. heavy-handed military forces end up killing a lot of civilians, and vietnam was no exception. to suggest otherwise as this video seemed to -- that our cause was noble and that we could do no wrong, was an ideological misinterpretation of the conflict.

i would have protested the vietnam war too because it was an unjust war carried out badly and was devastating to civilian populations (read up on cambodia too and see if you can find some sick justfication for that), but that does not that i support the actions against the troops! in fact, part of the reason why i would have stood against the vietnam war was because of the toll on the american side without a greater cause or a plan to win. at least if you watch this, try to take a balanced look at it. unlike many of the issues facing us today, this is a historical debate where there is a comfortable middle ground.
Well said.

[Warehouse21]

I'm 5 minutes through it, and it's already a bunch of shit. The vietnam vets who are pissed at Kerry are to pussy to admit the uncomfortable truth. I honor them for being there, and i give it up for anyone who was there, but they have to grow up now and accept that atrocities did occur. Kerry came back and tod the uncomforttable truth, and was not accusing the troops, but the goivernment for putting the troops in such an awful situation. And if all this war footage is supposed to make their point stronger...I know it was a tough fight. That still doesn't they get pity points to get me to buy into their whiny bullshit that they call a documentary.

[saygoodbye12]

I'm 5 minutes through it, and it's already a bunch of shit. The vietnam vets who are pissed at Kerry are to pussy to admit the uncomfortable truth.
Pussies? When was the last time you survived 6 years of captivity against your will, being tortured physically and mentally?

[WJM-WJM]

The vietnam vets who are pissed at Kerry are to pussy to admit the uncomfortable truth.


Hhhhmmmm...people using their notoriety to get their opinions out...sounds like a recent concert tour I had heard about.

[Tim6019]

I dont understand why the people for Bush have time to mess around on this message board? They should all be in Iraq fighting this war they support!!! Put your money where your mouth is!! Send the Bush daughters to Iraq!

[ModestMouse2003]

I dont understand why the people for Bush have time to mess around on this message board? They should all be in Iraq fighting this war they support!!! Put your money where your mouth is!! Send the Bush daughters to Iraq!

:freak :ugh:

wow u just managed to be disliked after your first post, and it wasnt even about teh band. :rolleyes:

[Tim6019]

:freak :ugh:

wow u just managed to be disliked after your first post, and it wasnt even about teh band. :rolleyes:
I love 'teh band' I hate Bush.

[WJM-WJM]

I dont understand why the people for Bush have time to mess around on this message board? They should all be in Iraq fighting this war they support!!! Put your money where your mouth is!! Send the Bush daughters to Iraq!

http://antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=118422

#2

[Tim6019]

I agree 'Stolen Honor' is objective journalism. It is fair and balanced journalism. Any corporation that donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bush must be objective.

[WJM-WJM]

I agree 'Stolen Honor' is objective journalism. It is fair and balanced journalism. Any corporation that donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bush must be objective.


Similar to the objectivity that media companies like Viacom and Time Warner portray when making donations to Kerry.

[nonewdirections]

I agree 'Stolen Honor' is objective journalism. It is fair and balanced journalism. Any corporation that donates hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bush must be objective.
it's easier if you don't use sarcasm, and just state your point clearly. "i disagree and think that Stolen Honor is not objective journalism." i'm surprised by how many people do this to get across their point. it's all right if it's a novelty sort of thing, but people use it incessantly.

[Tomriddle]

I feel for the vets in prison, but frankly, I don't think I has a damned thing to do with Kerry being the president.

[saygoodbye12]

I dont understand why the people for Bush have time to mess around on this message board? They should all be in Iraq fighting this war they support!!! Put your money where your mouth is!! Send the Bush daughters to Iraq!
I don't understand why people have to use alter-egos and can't just post what they think under their real name. Who's the pussy now?

[Number27]

I love propaganda films.

[WJM-WJM]

I feel for the vets in prison, but frankly, I don't think I has a damned thing to do with Kerry being the president.

Do you think it is any different than the Vote for Change tour?

It's simply people leveraging their personal notoriety to get their opinions broadcasted to a larger group of people?

[nonewdirections]

Do you think it is any different than the Vote for Change tour?

It's simply people leveraging their personal notoriety to get their opinions broadcasted to a larger group of people?
i think it's quite different than the VFC tour. there, they are using concerts as fundraisers (and occaisionally as political stages), and this documentary is an overblown and unwarranted personal attack on one man. i frankly don't see the veterans as "leveraging their notoreity" to produce this. the documentary is a distortion of history and draws unfair conclusions about the purpose of kerry's statements and the importance of his involvement in the peace protests and anti-war statements.

[WJM-WJM]

i think it's quite different than the VFC tour. there, they are using concerts as fundraisers (and occaisionally as political stages), and this documentary is an overblown and unwarranted personal attack on one man. i frankly don't see the veterans as "leveraging their notoreity" to produce this. the documentary is a distortion of history and draws unfair conclusions about the purpose of kerry's statements and the importance of his involvement in the peace protests and anti-war statements.


VFC was a fundraiser, but it was clearly a political stage as well (for many of the performers, but not all).

This is an election year, 'unfair conclusions' are plentiful on both Repub and Dem campaigns.

Because these veterans are who they are, people like us will listen to them (even if you think it's BS, you still hear what they had to say, right?). That's where I was going with the notoriety comment. If it was a group of random citizens, no one would care. Just like if the VFC tour was a collection of coffee shop open mic performers.

[marco j]

all i want to know is.....

why is john kerry considered a bad man ?

1. he went to vietnam ...

which many of you say you respect people who have the courage to go to war.

2. he came back and spoke out about attrocities

would any of you show the gall to a soldier who comes back from Iraq and speaks out about attrocities?

[cyberhound]

all i want to know is.....

why is john kerry considered a bad man ?

1. he went to vietnam ...

which many of you say you respect people who have the courage to go to war.

2. he came back and spoke out about attrocities

would any of you show the gall to a soldier who comes back from Iraq and speaks out about attrocities?You conveniently left out #3. You know, the part where Kerry committed atrocities. Because of that, he deserves no respect. Only life imprisonment, or more appropriately, the death penalty (a little taste of his own medicine). Yep, that makes him a bad man. That along with his self-serving speaking out on said atrocities, his monday morning quarterbacking on Iraq and and Afghanistan when it became politically convenient, and his 20 year record of pratically doing nothing in the Senate. And lest anyone try, listing the failings of our current president, of which I am fully aware, changes none of the failings of Kerry.

Have a nice day.

[penn darvis]

his 20 year record of pratically doing nothing in the Senate.


BCCI???

[cyberhound]

BCCI???
Yeah so he lead a Senate investigation. That's fucking impressive and shows he'll be a great president.

[marco j]

You conveniently left out #3. You know, the part where Kerry committed atrocities. Because of that, he deserves no respect. Only life imprisonment, or more appropriately, the death penalty (a little taste of his own medicine). Yep, that makes him a bad man. That along with his self-serving speaking out on said atrocities, his monday morning quarterbacking on Iraq and and Afghanistan when it became politically convenient, and his 20 year record of pratically doing nothing in the Senate. And lest anyone try, listing the failings of our current president, of which I am fully aware, changes none of the failings of Kerry.

Have a nice day.


hey cyber where you been?

i've heard kerry admit to attrocities . i would like to know which ones he admits to?
this also leads to a good question.
do we hold government leaders more accountable for these attrocities???

oh yeah i love that he's done nothing in the senate for twenty years part.
you don't know shit cyber. you sound like a fox sound bite.

[marco j]

check some of it out.
http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_kerry/senate.html

[cyberhound]

hey cyber where you been?

i've heard kerry admit to attrocities . i would like to know which ones he admits to?
this also leads to a good question.
do we hold government leaders more accountable for these attrocities???

oh yeah i love that he's done nothing in the senate for twenty years part.
you don't know shit cyber. you sound like a fox sound bite.You don't know what atrocities he admits to? Yeah right. It's only been posted here on these boards several dozen times over the last few months. Now, you become conveniently ignorant. Not suprising.

I'm fully aware of Kerry's senate record. And it's pretty much a record of nothing in my opinion. If you disagree, fine. Bottom line, the man is a fucking disgrace to the country and should at the very least be in prison right now. I find it funny that one of the most ignorant people to ever grace these boards says I don't know shit.

[penn darvis]

That's fucking impressive and shows he'll be a great president.

Correct.

[marco j]

You don't know what atrocities he admits to? Yeah right. It's only been posted here on these boards several dozen times over the last few months. Now, you become conveniently ignorant. Not suprising.

I'm fully aware of Kerry's senate record. And it's pretty much a record of nothing in my opinion. If you disagree, fine. Bottom line, the man is a fucking disgrace to the country and should at the very least be in prison right now. I find it funny that one of the most ignorant people to ever grace these boards says I don't know shit.


yeah i never listen to another side of the story. :rolleyes:

also pretty cool how you edited out the line....."find a corner to lie down and die in".

i've never said anything close to that to anyone. so from now on i will just say fuck you to you. you piece of shit.

i was completely serious when i said i do not KNOW what attrocities he has ADMITTED TO. when i saw his speech he states attrocities but does NOT state which ones he admits to. i was simply saying which ones has he admitted to. but again i regress fuckyou.

[marco j]

I'm fully aware of Kerry's senate record. And it's pretty much a record of nothing in my opinion.

funny ANY accomplishments by the man are conveniently ignored. :rolleyes:

[clemson357]

...The vietnam vets who are pissed at Kerry are to pussy to admit the uncomfortable truth.....That still doesn't they get pity points to get me to buy into their whiny bullshit that they call a documentary.

so, from your infinite wisdom, we can come to a number of conclusions

1. Nothing John Kerry said was a fabrication

2. All the statements he made about the atrocities THE TROOPS were doing were directed at the governement, and not accusing the troops

3. The men that endored half a decade of physical torture are pussies

4. They should hold no hard feelings for what John Kerry said or did, when the enemy played tapes of John Kerry's speech to them as they were tortured.

5. You know more about what went on in Vietnam than the veterans, even though you weren't there

[clemson357]

I take it you have no comment on that, Warehouse21. I don't blame you, If I were you I would want that post to sink into oblivion and hope no one notices it as well.