Pro Wrestling is FAKE!?!

[davidhamrick10]

Punk
Show
Ryder
Barrett
Rhodes
HHH

[gocubsgo3822]

RKOdYourGrandma IWW's Sean
@JohnCena is it actually true that WWE is now selling "Cena Sucks" t-shirts?

JohnCena John Cena
They have wanted too since 2008. I told them no. Finally I just said I dont care. Im fine with the way things are. Some like me. Some don't.

[K3nTaKa0s]

CM Punk
Mark Henry
Zach Ryder
Cody Rhodes
Triple Haitch
Randy Orton
John Cena

[Speilmen230]

I firmly disagree. I was into wrestling when I was a kid up until about 2002ish and completely stopped watching because the product had gotten terrible. Tried to get back into it during the Cena/Batista years... couldn't stand it, didn't watch it again for at least another 5 years. Just recently when I started getting into it again, I gave TNA a try before WWE. I could barely get through a show.

So I had bailed on WWE twice already because of how bad the product was, but when I tried to give TNA a chance, it made me go back to WWE. I don't think there was too much bias involved there, considering I couldn't stand WWE at the time.

:ugh:freak 2002-2004 was an amazing stretch of years for the WWE.

[hbktonyb]

Punk
Henry
Haitch
Ryder
Rhodes
Orton

[JacobLovesYou]

He's won like, 7 world titles with the E.

Truly the best wrestler in WWE history.

I know he has, but in the climate that WWE has created with inflated title run numbers, Taker as world champion isn't the image people have. Mostly because he stayed so over he didn't need to be like 15x champion.

[JacobLovesYou]

CM Punk
Mark Henry (then maybe DBryan?)
Kevin Nash (H uses the hammer illegally)
Zack Ryder (Cena helps)
Cody Rhodes
Randy Orton

[Speilmen230]

Championships will never define Taker. The streak will always define his career, and the fact that he has been with the company as a performing talent for 21 years.

[Rodey]

CM Punk
Big Show
Triple H
Zack Ryder
Wade Barrett
Booker T

[JacobLovesYou]

I'll be watching from that scummy sports bar I've mentioned before. $2 cover, on every tv but one (SNF), and loud audio, so it works.

[Speilmen230]

CM Punk
HHH
Henry
Zack Ryder
Orton
Rhodes

[Rodey]

I'm the only one picking Booker. Unlikely he'll win, but I can completely see them wanting to extend the feud/him wanting to get back into the ring for a short stretch. Wouldn't rule it out.

[Rodey]

Great opening match so far.

[Speilmen230]

This opening match is awesome

[DoDaFoo]

The Ryder Revolution is in full swing. I'm really happy to see all of Ryder's hard work pay off.

[bartender_man]

Enjoyed opening match as well. That was pretty cool. Not to interested in this tag team match though. Talk about dull. :thumbsdow

[DoDaFoo]

That tag match didn't even belong on RAW let alone a PPV...

[DMBfan41]

any streams?

[DoDaFoo]

http://www.firstrowsports.tv/watch/98798/1/watch-wwe-tlc-:-tables,-ladders-and-chairs.html

[BotheDMBFan]

This past month, Orton finally looks like he's having fun again.

[BotheDMBFan]

Kelly Kelly is the worst successful women's wrestler ever.

[DoDaFoo]

Singles Tables Matches just don't do it for me. Orton and Barrett both looked good, but I prefer Tables matches to be Tornado style tag matches.

[dmbmuskie]

Why do they put this on the PPV?

[BotheDMBFan]

Equality or something.

[DoDaFoo]

Yeah this really sucks. They seem to be going back and forth between good and bad matches.

[BotheDMBFan]

Kelly Kelly has less moves than Diesel.

[JacobLovesYou]

The problem with tables matches is that it turns into a match full of things that ALMOST happened. Its hard to get it just right.

[DoDaFoo]

Kelly Kelly has less moves than Diesel.


:lol:lol:lol

[DoDaFoo]

The problem with tables matches is that it turns into a match full of things that ALMOST happened. Its hard to get it just right.

That's why I like the tag tables matches. 2 people can go through tables and the match will continue.

[dmbmuskie]

I'm ready for a serious injury here. What's the body part, and who does it belong to?

I got Nash and his achillies.

[BotheDMBFan]

I'm going Nash and his quad exploding after he goes past step 3 on the ladder.

[Speilmen230]

Fingers crossed for no blown quads. I love having Haitch as an active talent.

[BotheDMBFan]

This is miserable.

[Speilmen230]

I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

[BotheDMBFan]

Kevin Nash: 21 years in wrestling, still only has 5 moves.

[BotheDMBFan]

Six! Six moves! Way to go Kevin!

[BotheDMBFan]

Awful. Final moment was ok, but the rest was just hard to watch. Two old timers who should step aside.

[Speilmen230]

About what I expected. What else is left? Two title matches?

[BotheDMBFan]

Sheamus v Swagger.

[JacobLovesYou]

About what I expected for Nash/HHH... it wasn't god awful cause HHH can still go a bit, but it was the sad bastard version of Taker/HHH at WM. Low expectations made me enjoy it some though.

[jackisback24]

About what I expected for Nash/HHH... it wasn't god awful cause HHH can still go a bit, but it was the sad bastard version of Taker/HHH at WM. Low expectations made me enjoy it some though.
The WWE right now vs. ten years ago is like saying Binaural is better then No Code in terms of Pearl Jam songs.

[Speilmen230]

Best Big Show promo in maybe ever.

[jackisback24]

PJ albums...sorry.

[BotheDMBFan]

The WWE right now vs. ten years ago is like saying Binaural is better then No Code in terms of Pearl Jam songs.

WWE isn't always terrible save for Betterman though.

[Speilmen230]

I have never before said this but I want tony chimmle back. Lilian is awful.

[Speilmen230]

The entire bar just exploded! This is amazing! Best Cash in ever.

[BotheDMBFan]

Most predictable cash in ever, you mean.

Edge's one on Cena will always be the best.

[bartender_man]

Daniel Bryan as champ. Ughh... Solid wrestler but god aweful on the mic. Wow fucking wow....

[JacobLovesYou]

I predicted DBryan in my picks, but I figured it would be cause Kane ducked shit up. I'm gunna be mad if he doesn't come out at all.

[Speilmen230]

I love the dbryan cash in. Well deserved. Feshen up the title picture.

[BotheDMBFan]

I like it too. It was just super predictable.

[bartender_man]

I predicted DBryan in my picks, but I figured it would be cause Kane ducked shit up. I'm gunna be mad if he doesn't come out at all.

Agreed! I want Kane to come out and beat everyone's asses

[BotheDMBFan]

That'll probably happen in the main event. Kane is a Raw guy now.

[bartender_man]

That'll probably happen in the main event. Kane is a Raw guy now.

This is true

[jackisback24]

Daniel Bryan as champ. Ughh... Solid wrestler but god aweful on the mic. Wow fucking wow....
and Dave Meltzer just gi**ed on Wade Keller.

[K3nTaKa0s]

and Dave Meltzer just gi**ed on Wade Keller.

??????????

[BotheDMBFan]

4, maybe 4.25 star match. Very good ME.

[BotheDMBFan]

Shocked by no Kane.

[bartender_man]

Yeah I figured for sure he was coming out.

[Speilmen230]

I love that instead of going the strength route they went with the intelligence route for him to escape the handcuffs on the turnbuckle.

[JacobLovesYou]

ME was very good. PPV was just ok at best. The run-up was weak because Rumble is next. DBryan cash in freshens up WHC picture for now. It'll be interesting to see if they'll let him be champ for WM. they'll be really tuned into the crowd the next few weeks.

[Speilmen230]

I am in utter shock that Cena played no part in this ppv what so ever. He was barely mentioned.

[bartender_man]

I am in utter shock that Cena played no part in this ppv what so ever. He was barely mentioned.


A nice change :thumbsup

[JacobLovesYou]

I told my brother, I wonder if it was a test run to see how many buys the ppv got

[gocubsgo3822]

I dont know why but I am pretty fucking excited for tonight.

I will go

PUNK
HHH
Henry (with D Bryan cashing in)
Ryder
Barrett
Rhodes

I figured orton would put wade over. I was incorrect. I hate d bryan as the whc. He is the worst ever. 0 credibility when he won tonight?

I had a great time there. Imo randy orton got the biggest pop. I felt bad for the family behind me on the way in. They wanted cena so bad....

[bartender_man]

I figured orton would put wade over. I was incorrect. I hate d bryan as the whc. He is the worst ever. 0 credibility when he won tonight?

I had a great time there. Imo randy orton got the biggest pop. I felt bad for the family behind me on the way in. They wanted cena so bad....

Glad to hear you had fun there man. Orton got a bigger pop than Punk? That's dissapointing. Fully agree with Bryan comments. What a joke.

[Rodey]

I am in utter shock that Cena played no part in this ppv what so ever. He was barely mentioned.

I thought for sure he would play some role in the Ryder match, but it was refreshing not to see him. I hope that the buy rates didn't take a major hit. It'd prove that Cena isn't the WWE, at least a little bit.

[BotheDMBFan]

Mark Henry lost tonight because he's got a legit groin injury.

[CrashDMB237]

Thought it was a pretty good PPV. I really like Ziggler, so I'm not a fan of him losing the belt to Ryder. Love that Daniel Bryan is the new champ. One of the better in-ring guys in the company. And the main event was just awesome. When was the last time Cena wasn't involved in a PPV?

[BotheDMBFan]

Since his injury, probably.

[CrashDMB237]

Since his injury, probably.

I meant by company choice. My bad.

[Speilmen230]

Cyber Sunday 2008 was the last time Cena wasn't on a PPV.

[Rodey]

Thought it was a pretty good PPV. I really like Ziggler, so I'm not a fan of him losing the belt to Ryder. Love that Daniel Bryan is the new champ. One of the better in-ring guys in the company. And the main event was just awesome. When was the last time Cena wasn't involved in a PPV?

I was surprised that Ryder won cleanly, but I don't think it hurt Dolph as much as I thought a clean win by Ryder would hurt him. I think now they can push him towards the ME hard and fast and have him ditch Vickie.

[Speilmen230]

Have vickie focus on Swagger, and let Doph flourish by himself.

[hbktonyb]

I'd be surprised if the faces go into Mania as champions, other than Punk.

[gocubsgo3822]

I gotta admit I marked the fuck out when randy hit the rko through the table. That shit was awesome

[Speilmen230]

:lol :lol

found this and thought it was hilarious.

http://i53.tinypic.com/2dihnhz.gif

[Rodey]

I hate the fact that Bryan is WHC. Don't like him at all.

[Speilmen230]

I hate the fact that Bryan is WHC. Don't like him at all.

You are dead to me. :violent

[Rodey]

You are dead to me. :violent

I think he's great in the ring, but everything else about him is just really dull. I don't know, just can't get into him.

[Speilmen230]

Rodey=Cole

...troof

[gocubsgo3822]

I hate the fact that Bryan is WHC. Don't like him at all.

Agree. he is fucking turrible. Only thing worse is Kofi Kingston.

I cant stress how awesome of a time i had last night. It was so much fun

[Speilmen230]

John Cena Says WWE Is Disrespecting Him
Posted by Dave Mitchell on 12/19/2011 at 10:02 AM

Over the weekend, pictures were posted online of new anti-John Cena merchandise, including t-shirts that read "CENA SUCKS" and "We Can't See You" with a picture of Cena's face crossed out.

Cena has been responding to tweets about the new merchandise and revealed that WWE has wanted to capitalize on Cena haters for many years now:

“They have wanted too since 2008. I told them no. Finally I just said I dont care. Im fine with the way things are. Some like me. Some don’t.”

A fan asked Cena if WWE was disrespecting him by profiting off people taunting him. Cena said:

“Agreed. But WTF. Ignore it no longer. Its out there so those that wanna be like that should be able to voice their opinion. Like I said doesn’t change me one bit. Stay true..always have.. always will”

Another fan asked Cena when WWE was going to release anti-Rock shirts. Cena says there's a double standard and we'll never see merchandise disrespecting his WrestleMania 28 opponent:

“I can tell u right now….that would never happen”

http://nodq.com/wwe/326313713.shtml

[Rodey]

Cena needs to stop fucking whining. Doesn't he realize how much the WWE bends over backwards for him?

[crush0617]

Cena needs to stop fucking whining. Doesn't he realize how much the WWE bends over backwards for him?

Especially since he will get paid from the sales of the Anti Cena shirts.

[gocubsgo3822]

What percentage of wreslter merch do you think the wrestlers are collecting?

[K3nTaKa0s]

A shame that all of the wrestling feeds on justin.tv got taken down. I'm in the mood to watch some '90s WCW on thestr0.

[CrashDMB237]

Oh and just to keep the pissing match going... anyone who watched last night's TLC and the TNA pay per view a week ago care to compare?

All I'll say is last night's main event is better than anything TNA has done in years, let alone at their last PPV.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Oh and just to keep the pissing match going... anyone who watched last night's TLC and the TNA pay per view a week ago care to compare?

All I'll say is last night's main event is better than anything TNA has done in years, let alone at their last PPV.

I doubt that anyone on here, besides me, watched the TNA PPV. I'm sure some posters on here will say they watched both shows and claim how much better TLC was than Final Resolution.

We have a great post like this... http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=13182806&postcount=32833

Yet, when I call you out on it and ask you what was wrong with the show.. you have nothing to say.

Of course it's fun to have a pissing match when it's usually 7 versus 1.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Since you feel the need to make comparisons of the two PPVs...

TNA's PPV had nothing as bad as Triple H/Nash.

What about the five-minute world title match?

Ebonics jokes? Come on.

[CrashDMB237]

Called me out on it? Never once saw it. But if you really want an answer:

It feels empty as all hell. You have guys like RVD starting off the show who can barely execute moves and are piss poor entertainers compared to what you have going on in the WWE. You have Jeff Jarrett and Matt Hardy going at it... that speaks for itself. The main event was some iron man match for 30 minutes? That's just not believable. Most matches in WWE these days last 30 minutes and you struggle to get one fall. Expecting more than one in a PPV is just dumb creatively to me. And ending in a draw? How can you be satisfied with that ending? Plus having Kurt Angle as one of your big names in the show and having him look as out of shape (or not well conditioned) as he did, putting on that kind of performance was embarrassing.

I'm sure you'll just reply with some crap about how I'm a WWE mark so obviously I won't like TNA PPV's, but I don't know what else you want me to say. I think it sucks. I think they try too hard to be creative and they flop big time. Why do you think the WWE product is so stale? It's your opinion and your preference. I think TNA has no substance and tries to have a lot of style. Half the talent is washed up, half the new talent isn't polished. There, hopefully that suffices.

[K3nTaKa0s]

"You have guys like RVD starting off the show who can barely execute moves and are piss poor entertainers compared to what you have going on in the WWE."

That's why he's opening the show. Piss poor entertainers? Again.. WWE wrestlers are going to look better as they work a lot more dates during the year than TNA wrestlers. It's really not even close.

"You have Jeff Jarrett and Matt Hardy going at it... that speaks for itself."

Matt Hardy hasn't been in the company for months. What was wrong with that match? JEFF Hardy is over big time.

"Most matches in WWE these days last 30 minutes and you struggle to get one fall."

That's a rather inaccurate statement. How many 30-minute matches have there been on WWE this year? Royal Rumbles don't count. How many 30-minute matches have there been in TNA where there's only been one fall?

"And ending in a draw? How can you be satisfied with that ending?"

The die hard TNA fans will order the PPVs no matter what. I really don't think that at this point, TNA is more concerned with PPV buyrates than popping a rating for Impact. It was a 'hook' for people to watch Impact on last Thursday.

"Plus having Kurt Angle as one of your big names in the show and having him look as out of shape (or not well conditioned) as he did, putting on that kind of performance was embarrassing."

Kurt's in better shape than he's been for most of the year. Again.. it was a sloppy match at time. Name 3 wrestlers in WWE that are even in Angle's league.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I didn't see most of the main event last night, but most people were rating it ***1/2 or ***3/4 out of *****.

[Speilmen230]

I for one have not watched TNA in quite some time. It just doesn't hold my attention. I am not a fan of their style or their talent. What K3nTa finds entertaining is his business.

I frankly lost interest and hope in TNA quite some time ago. They did have their moments and they do have some talents that i really enjoy watching but it is hard to watch a company who still pushes Jarrett and bully ray as top tier talent.

WWE is looking towards the future with Danielson, Ziggler, Ryder, and Miz. You have to be semi slow if you don't know that Punk is my favorite current active wrestler. He, cena, and Orton are the now, but i love that they are looking towards the future.

[BotheDMBFan]

Cena needs to stop fucking whining. Doesn't he realize how much the WWE bends over backwards for him?

That's character schtick done on Twitter. I'm sure he doesn't give one ounce of a shit.

[BotheDMBFan]

One of the better openings to the show in recent memory so far.

[Speilmen230]

http://p.twimg.com/AhEjpnVCQAIFL4T.jpg

Absolutely amazing picture

[jackisback24]

One of the better openings to the show in recent memory so far.
what happened?

[jackisback24]

funny how Daniel Bryan got fired a while ago over the neck tie.

[BotheDMBFan]

This is a great moment.

[K3nTaKa0s]

This is a great moment.

I believe the term would be 'epic'.

[BotheDMBFan]

Hopefully this moves ADR to SD.

[BotheDMBFan]

I believe the term would be 'epic'.

I'm not a 14 year old girl, and this isn't an FNM song.

[jackisback24]

Hopefully this moves ADR to SD.
did anything happen with the opening of the show? Opening montage? I only caught when Punk came out.

[BotheDMBFan]

did anything happen with the opening of the show? Opening montage? I only caught when Punk came out.

Punk's intro was good, that's all.

[BotheDMBFan]

Wade has the worst music ever.

[jackisback24]

I haven't seen Barrett in forever...what happened to him? New hair...skinnier. A Dibiase body. He was bigger.

Really, a thumb to the eye??? DQ???:ugh

[BotheDMBFan]

Alicia Fox may be worse than Kelly Kelly.

[BotheDMBFan]

Mahal is so charmingly racist.

[jackisback24]

Persian Clubs for the win.

My wife just said "do they hit every ethnicity and background?":lol

[BotheDMBFan]

I was about to say, thankfully no Polish; but hot ass Beth is Polish.

[jackisback24]

I was about to say, thankfully no Polish; but hot ass Beth is Polish.
Putski may come back.

[Speilmen230]

i am way behind everyone, but that opening was so solid.

[Rodey]

I was about to say, thankfully no Polish; but hot ass Beth is Polish.

Beth is not hot... at all.

[BotheDMBFan]

WAY cuter in person. Honestly.

[BotheDMBFan]

Her regular speaking voice is darling, too.

[Rodey]

You're crazy, Bo.

[BotheDMBFan]

You're crazy, basta.

[jaking1185]

Bo likes girls who could pick him up over her head.

[BotheDMBFan]

Bo likes girls who could pick him up over her head.

Absolutely.

[Speilmen230]

Bo likes girls who could pick him up over her head.

Might be fun once or twice. :hump

[BotheDMBFan]

Sexual Chocolate chants, LOL.

[Rodey]

Sexual Chocolate chants were awesome. :lol

[hbktonyb]

Sexual chocolate lmaoooooooooooooooooooooo

[BotheDMBFan]

That was cool.

[bradshaw06]

lol, why did he take his shirt?

[hbktonyb]

I need to learn that Uso dance :lol

[Rodey]

Rosa's tits are absolutely monsterous.

[BotheDMBFan]

lol, why did he take his shirt?

Rise Above Hate, right? Kane might be in staunch opposition to that phrase, as this Kane should be the Kane that embodies hatred.

[hbktonyb]

Only person that has bigger ones is JBL.

[BotheDMBFan]

I love that they can curse in Spanish, and no one cares. Last night, Ricardo called ADR a bastard. It was hilarious.

[BotheDMBFan]

Only person that has bigger ones is JBL.

J "Double D" BL?

[BotheDMBFan]

That was better than the tag match last night.

[BotheDMBFan]

That was hilarious. I love Santino.

[hbktonyb]

J "Double D" BL?

:lol

We just used to call him man tits in college.

[Rodey]

Fucking Nickelback.

[BotheDMBFan]

That song is so good. I mean, Nickleback > Prince.

[Speilmen230]

I love Cody's gimmick so much. He and Dolph IMO are the two best upper mid level heels in the E right now. Both are so unique and different.

[BotheDMBFan]

Tonight has been damn solid.

[BotheDMBFan]

That was hilarious.

[Speilmen230]

i hate dolph's new music. I am perfection was way better.

Where the fuck was Haitch tonight?

[jackisback24]

was that kid pissing in the corner?

[BotheDMBFan]

i hate dolph's new music. I am perfection was way better.

Where the fuck was Haitch tonight?

Off my TV, thank God.

[Speilmen230]

screw you Bo. Your opinion sucks as much as Melina's mouth.

[BotheDMBFan]

Ryder should be using this entrance forever.

[BotheDMBFan]

That was great.

[BotheDMBFan]

This has been one of the most fun shows I have ever seen.

[Speilmen230]

Uber-faces without being vanilla about it. That was awesome. Attitude era used to utilize the crowd like this, and it went over huge. I love it.

[gocubsgo3822]

Sexual Chocolate chants, LOL.

i thought he was going to break character. it was superb on both him and fans.. well done philly

I need to learn that Uso dance :lol

that shit was so absurd

Rosa's tits are absolutely monsterous.

:thumbsup

[Speilmen230]

They don't have anyone to fill the void as the top babyface if Cena turns heel.

I believe we have found someone to fill the void for top babyface.

Not that i think Cena is gonna turn heel, but clearly Cena has taken a backseat in favor of the giant wave that Punk is riding.

[gocubsgo3822]

i think that was the best elbow drop i have ever seen from punk

[BotheDMBFan]

Fantastic TV main event.

[Speilmen230]

wow... that was quite a rub for Bryan. Unbelievable.

[BotheDMBFan]

i think that was the best elbow drop i have ever seen from punk

He needs to make the elbow more compact, but it was very good.

[Speilmen230]

I miss Paul heyman so much. I'm rewatching survivor series 2002 and heyman was such an amazing manager.

[JacobLovesYou]

Couldn't watch tonight because the Steelers were on. Haven't read the last 2 pages, but its nice to see you guys enjoying the beginning.

[kingchrisII]

I really wish I understood the love for Ziggler or Ryder... They are both Sunay Night Heat caliber talents in my eyes.

[BotheDMBFan]

I really wish I understood the love for Ziggler or Ryder... They are both Sunay Night Heat caliber talents in my eyes.

Ziggler is better than the entire TNA roster. He's got the mic skills, and his wrestling style is fantastic. High energy, high impact, with good psychology.

Ryder is an enigma. He's the endearing underdog who is improving leaps and bounds every single week.

[hbktonyb]

^That's why I like both of them. They are great young talents that I think will be around for a long time.

[CrashDMB237]

I really wish I understood the love for Ziggler or Ryder... They are both Sunay Night Heat caliber talents in my eyes.

You think Ziggler is on the D-Lo, Gangrel, Mosh and Thrash level?

[hbktonyb]

The January 2nd video last night was creepy. I had a nightmare.

[BotheDMBFan]

You think Ziggler is on the D-Lo, Gangrel, Mosh and Thrash level?

D-Lo Brown is the first ever Euro-Continental champ. Show him some fucking respect.

[kingchrisII]

Ziggler is better than the entire TNA roster. He's got the mic skills, and his wrestling style is fantastic. High energy, high impact, with good psychology.

Ryder is an enigma. He's the endearing underdog who is improving leaps and bounds every single week.

Why is every single counter argument that you (well, not you personally) make when something negative is said about WWE involving TNA? I see a lot of TNA marks do that (when I say TNA is dumb because of x, they go "well WWE does y") I say I dont get the love for Ziggler or Ryder, and you say "well Ziggler is better than everybody in TNA) I'm not a hardcore wrestling fan so I don't know if there is a reason for this, but its just odd to me that nobody can seem to answer a question without being hung up on the other product. It just seems like the TNA fans have an inferior complex that they need to push the fact that something they are doing is better than WWE, so they are gaining ground, and WWE fans seem to have a big brother complex where they feel the need to establish the fact that their product is still the best.

Back on topic, I have never heard him cut a good promo, but I must admit I haven't heard many of them. The fact they gave him a mouth piece in Vickie Guerrero cripples him in my eyes. His wrestling is solid, but I can think of a handful of wrestlers in both companies who have better in ring skills than Ziggler. Douglas Williams and AJ Styles stick out in TNA, while CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are better in WWE.

I can see your Ryder argument. That was actually helpful, good explanation of what people see in him. I think he should change his gimmick so he can be taken more seriously, but just my .02

You think Ziggler is on the D-Lo, Gangrel, Mosh and Thrash level?

Believe it or not I think he is worse than all of the above.

[BotheDMBFan]

Why is every single counter argument that you (well, not you personally) make when something negative is said about WWE involving TNA? I see a lot of TNA marks do that (when I say TNA is dumb because of x, they go "well WWE does y") I say I dont get the love for Ziggler or Ryder, and you say "well Ziggler is better than everybody in TNA) I'm not a hardcore wrestling fan so I don't know if there is a reason for this, but its just odd to me that nobody can seem to answer a question without being hung up on the other product. It just seems like the TNA fans have an inferior complex that they need to push the fact that something they are doing is better than WWE, so they are gaining ground, and WWE fans seem to have a big brother complex where they feel the need to establish the fact that their product is still the best.

Back on topic, I have never heard him cut a good promo, but I must admit I haven't heard many of them. The fact they gave him a mouth piece in Vickie Guerrero cripples him in my eyes. His wrestling is solid, but I can think of a handful of wrestlers in both companies who have better in ring skills than Ziggler. Douglas Williams and AJ Styles stick out in TNA, while CM Punk and Daniel Bryan are better in WWE.

I can see your Ryder argument. That was actually helpful, good explanation of what people see in him. I think he should change his gimmick so he can be taken more seriously, but just my .02



Believe it or not I think he is worse than all of the above.

If you've never heard Dolph cut a good promo, then you need to see more Dolph. Vicky is just kinda...there...for Dolph right now. She's way more there for Swagger's sake. Dolph in the ring is fantastic. He had a match with Punk on Raw about a month ago that should be an MOTY candidate. I highly recommend you watch it.

If you don't think he's better than Mosh and Thrasher, then you def need to see more Dolph.

[hbktonyb]

Ryder is just awesome. His in-ring work keeps getting better and I love him on the mic.

But Dolph is on the verge of being a main-eventer. He gets great heat, awesome on the mic and has great matches almost every time out.

[CrashDMB237]

Believe it or not I think he is worse than all of the above.

What in the fuck? Ziggler is one of the best in the industry right now.

[kingchrisII]

If you've never heard Dolph cut a good promo, then you need to see more Dolph. Vicky is just kinda...there...for Dolph right now. She's way more there for Swagger's sake. Dolph in the ring is fantastic. He had a match with Punk on Raw about a month ago that should be an MOTY candidate. I highly recommend you watch it.

If you don't think he's better than Mosh and Thrasher, then you def need to see more Dolph.

I don't doubt that he is a better in ring performer than the Headbangers, but I think they are better heels than he is. The Headbangers made people HATE them. Now, as you suggested, maybe I just havent seen enough Ziggler to get him, but I'm just pointing out that as a casual viewer I don't see the appeal.

I also must admit that I don't watch wrestling exclusively for the wrestling, I am more concerned about the storylines than the actual in ring action (which is why the Attitude Era was better to me than current wrestling). That's not to say good wrestling isn't a plus for me, its just not as important to me as charisma/mic skills.

CM Punk is the best in the business. If I had the choice to make him shitty in the ring and keep his mic skills or shitty on the mic but keep his ring skills, I would make him shitty in the ring. Pro Wrestling to me is not UFC, and if I cared more about the fight itself I would watch UFC.

Any explanation for my first paragraph in the post you just responded to? Curious about your opinion.

[hbktonyb]

Are we really discussing the Headbangers?? :lol :lol

They were a joke!

[Doors Allan Coe]

I don't doubt that he is a better in ring performer than the Headbangers, but I think they are better heels than he is. The Headbangers made people HATE them. Now, as you suggested, maybe I just havent seen enough Ziggler to get him, but I'm just pointing out that as a casual viewer I don't see the appeal.

I also must admit that I don't watch wrestling exclusively for the wrestling, I am more concerned about the storylines than the actual in ring action (which is why the Attitude Era was better to me than current wrestling). That's not to say good wrestling isn't a plus for me, its just not as important to me as charisma/mic skills.

CM Punk is the best in the business. If I had the choice to make him shitty in the ring and keep his mic skills or shitty on the mic but keep his ring skills, I would make him shitty in the ring. Pro Wrestling to me is not UFC, and if I cared more about the fight itself I would watch UFC.

Any explanation for my first paragraph in the post you just responded to? Curious about your opinion.

Um... what? The Headbangers? The headbangers didn't make people hate them. They literally were turned faces because people didn't hate them. Admittedly, "headbangers" v. "hogfarmers" wasn't exactly the most intellectually compelling idea of all time. I just think that using the Headbangers was some sort of reference point as to "how heels get over" is...well...ridiculous.

The attitude era was good. But, you have to admit it's illogical to try and substain a raunchy and haphazard tv product like the WWF put together in the attitude era. Just as you explained lots of the crowd that tuned in for violence has tuned off and started watching the UFC.

I haven't watched TNA recently, but they do indeed suck. I've sat down more than a handful of times and attempted to watch TNA. Mostly when they changed timeslots or tried to run live or tried to run against RAW. Everytime they failed. I could literally go back in this thread and bring up the night they promoted the RVD v. Angle "this is wrestling" main event. The entire show was a mess.

Most critism is TNA is warranted. On several occasions they've blown huge oppritunities to secure a larger audience. They are out of touch. They aren't sure what market they are targeting. They seems to have a tiny niche. But, that's about all you can expect.

[hbktonyb]

Far fetched? Not so much (1/2/12 video).

These videos are hyping a potential WM28 feud between CM Punk and Chris Jericho and here's why: In the video the little boy is representing Jericho and the little girl is representing Punk. Keep this in mind throughout my explanation. Notice, how the little boy continues to write in his notebook and the little girl keeps trying to look at what he is writing. Once the boy goes into the corner (Jericho's time off from WWE), The girl tries to do the work herself, but can't come up with anything. Keep in mind that she looked at the boy's notebook and this is implying that she has stolen the boy's work, which represents Jericho going to come back and claim that Punk is a fraud and has stolen his ideas and gimmick and what not. Also the ball in the video represents Jericho "dropping the ball" by leaving and Punk "taking the ball and running with it". The ball belonged to the boy and the girl took. At the end the girl is standing in the spotlight and the boy is in the dark with his head down indicating that we have forgotten about Jericho and that Punk is the new guy we all know and love. This will lead to WM match with Punk and Jericho. Look within the video not what the kid is saying....

[CrashDMB237]

I've been telling you guys all along, this is definitely Jericho, not the Undertaker, and a CM Punk/Jericho WM28 match is nowhere near out of the question.

[BotheDMBFan]

It's too bad he's stuck with Rock, I would have LOVED Cena v Punk as the ME for Wrestlemania. Best feud of the year, and their MITB match was the best match of the past few years.

[hbktonyb]

The Cena/Punk thing ended too early. Such a good feud and match at MITB.

I wouldn't mind seeing Punk/Austin or Punk/Rock.

[BotheDMBFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtaQMqcGIPA

Punk v Ziggler, for anyone who wants to see it again (or for the first time).

[Rodey]

It is 100% Jericho coming back on 1/2/12. I would be shocked if it wasn't.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Ziggler is better than the entire TNA roster. He's got the mic skills, and his wrestling style is fantastic. High energy, high impact, with good psychology.


This is why I'll never take any of your posts in this thread seriously.

Get real.

[Rodey]

This is why I'll never take any of your posts in this thread seriously.

Get real.

Why wouldn't you take that post seriously?

It's absolutely true.

[K3nTaKa0s]

People want to see Chris Jericho return to WWE?

[K3nTaKa0s]

Why wouldn't you take that post seriously?

It's absolutely true.

It's not even close to being true. Come on. Average mic skills + solid in-ring abilities would not make him "better than anyone in TNA."

[CrashDMB237]

People want to see Chris Jericho return to WWE?

Yes, absolutely. Why the hell wouldn't they? He and Punk feuding up until WM28 could produce some of the best promos EVER.

It's not even close to being true. Come on. Average mic skills + solid in-ring abilities would not make him "better than anyone in TNA."

It's just too easy, but I have to say it. Those two things combined is better than anything in TNA. Separately, you'd have a case. But Ziggler's combo of mic skills and in-ring ability would definitely put him on top of TNA.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Yes, absolutely. Why the hell wouldn't they? He and Punk feuding up until WM28 could produce some of the best promos EVER.


I can't speak for you, but I know I can't wait for countless Ralphus references.

[CrashDMB237]

I can't speak for you, but I know I can't wait for countless Ralphus references.

So what would make the WWE product NOT stale? I can't figure it out, because no matter what they do, you hate it and call it stale. So what do they need to do?

[gocubsgo3822]

My head hurts from some of this. I think Ziggler is awesome.

I think Ryders promos are stale and meh but they can hopefully get better

[K3nTaKa0s]

So what would make the WWE product NOT stale? I can't figure it out, because no matter what they do, you hate it and call it stale. So what do they need to do?

Watch a Raw from 2008 and watch a Raw from 2011. It all feels the same to me.

[hbktonyb]

Ziggler isn't even close to being average right now. He is far above.

And Cody Rhodes is going to be a star.

[CrashDMB237]

Watch a Raw from 2008 and watch a Raw from 2011. It all feels the same to me.

Storylines, talent, action... what do you mean? Because I don't see any of the same storylines rehashed and there is plenty of upcoming talent. Action is action... unless it's total nonstop obviously.

[K3nTaKa0s]

It's just boring, in general.

[CrashDMB237]

It's just boring, in general.

For someone that constantly wants an explanation, this response is absolutely hilarious :lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

For someone that constantly wants an explanation, this response is absolutely hilarious :lol

After all of the absurd comments you made on here last night, you don't deserve much of a response.

[K3nTaKa0s]

"You have guys like RVD starting off the show who can barely execute moves..."

That's retarded. He's doing the same moves now, sans weapons, that he was in the mid 90s.

[CrashDMB237]

After all of the absurd comments you made on here last night, you don't deserve much of a response.

"WWE is stale! Product sucks!"
"Why?"
"It's just boring."

And you want people to take you and your opinion seriously?


"You have guys like RVD starting off the show who can barely execute moves..."

That's retarded. He's doing the same moves now, sans weapons, that he was in the mid 90s.


I don't know how you want me to have a conversation with you when you believe this shit you're writing.

[Doors Allan Coe]

"You have guys like RVD starting off the show who can barely execute moves..."

That's retarded. He's doing the same moves now, sans weapons, that he was in the mid 90s.

:lol:lol

RVD is clearly a caricature of himself.

He hits his routine moves in his routine ways. He's not the same wrestler he was in the mid-90's. I wouldn't even expect him to be. He is working for his paycheck. For a guy his age, he is just looking to not mame himself.

Let's not pretend that he's even close to the same person he was in the mid-90's. He would routinely work 20+ minutes matches. His character wasn't that of and old burned out hippie, but instead a cocky, young, pot smoking, athlete. He was paired with a manager who supplimented his character perfectly.

It wasn't that long ago the RVD hitting a split legged moonsault on Raw was something amazing. Let's not forget in the mid-90's the biggest spot on most of the WWF house shows was Bret Hart superplexing Sid from the middle rope.

I honestly wouldn't even expect RVD to work the way he did in the 90's. Things he did back then still are shocking. Honestly, his front flips from the top rope into the crowd are still crazy 15+ years later.

Maybe he is doing all sorts of stuff in TNA I'm not aware of. But, just using logic and watching one of his matches in TNA, it's clear he's matured and realized at this stage in his career, collecting as many paychecks as possible it the real goal.

[CrashDMB237]

:lol:lol

RVD is clearly a caricature of himself.

He hits his routine moves in his routine ways. He's not the same wrestler he was in the mid-90's. I wouldn't even expect him to be. He is working for his paycheck. For a guy his age, he is just looking to not mame himself.

Let's not pretend that he's even close to the same person he was in the mid-90's. He would routinely work 20+ minutes matches. His character wasn't that of and old burned out hippie, but instead a cocky, young, pot smoking, athlete. He was paired with a manager who supplimented his character perfectly.

It wasn't that long ago the RVD hitting a split legged moonsault on Raw was something amazing. Let's not forget in the mid-90's the biggest spot on most of the WWF house shows was Bret Hart superplexing Sid from the middle rope.

I honestly wouldn't even expect RVD to work the way he did in the 90's. Things he did back then still are shocking. Honestly, his front flips from the top rope into the crowd are still crazy 15+ years later.

Maybe he is doing all sorts of stuff in TNA I'm not aware of. But, just using logic and watching one of his matches in TNA, it's clear he's matured and realized at this stage in his career, collecting as many paychecks as possible it the real goal.

This is pretty much everything I could have said if I felt like I wasn't talking to a brick wall every time I responded to one of his messages :lol

Bolded is exactly what I was trying to say.

[Speilmen230]

:lol:lol

RVD is clearly a caricature of himself.

He hits his routine moves in his routine ways. He's not the same wrestler he was in the mid-90's. I wouldn't even expect him to be. He is working for his paycheck. For a guy his age, he is just looking to not mame himself.

Let's not pretend that he's even close to the same person he was in the mid-90's. He would routinely work 20+ minutes matches. His character wasn't that of and old burned out hippie, but instead a cocky, young, pot smoking, athlete. He was paired with a manager who supplimented his character perfectly.

It wasn't that long ago the RVD hitting a split legged moonsault on Raw was something amazing. Let's not forget in the mid-90's the biggest spot on most of the WWF house shows was Bret Hart superplexing Sid from the middle rope.

I honestly wouldn't even expect RVD to work the way he did in the 90's. Things he did back then still are shocking. Honestly, his front flips from the top rope into the crowd are still crazy 15+ years later.

Maybe he is doing all sorts of stuff in TNA I'm not aware of. But, just using logic and watching one of his matches in TNA, it's clear he's matured and realized at this stage in his career, collecting as many paychecks as possible it the real goal.

Knowledge was once again just dropped. The swami has spoken.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Knowledge was once again just dropped. The swami has spoken.

What do you mean? He didn't even say anything that contradicts anything I said.

[CrashDMB237]

What do you mean? He didn't even say anything that contradicts anything I said.

Are you serious? You said he does the same moves he did in the 90s. That's false, as Doors pointed out. He also pointed out how much his character has changed from the 90s, for the worse. He also pointed out RVD's endurance and quality of in-ring performance, which has deteriorated from the 90s.

You are too much :lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

What's your point? I don't get it.

You made a remark about RVD being in the first match. For a guy who "can barely execute moves," where else should he be on the card?

The moves I'm sure you're complaining about are the ones he's been doing for ages. I didn't say he's been doing all of the same moves for 15 years. For God's sake, read my posts.

[CrashDMB237]

What's your point? I don't get it.

You made a remark about RVD being in the first match. For a guy who "can barely execute moves," where else should he be on the card?

The moves I'm sure you're complaining about are the ones he's been doing for ages. I didn't say he's been doing all of the same moves for 15 years. For God's sake, read my posts.

I don't care where he is on the card, that's so far from the point it's not even funny. You don't get it and apparently never will, it's not worth continuing this discussion with you.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Good. Go back to Woo Woo Wooing.

[K3nTaKa0s]

The following are news & notes from the current TNA TV tapings in India for the new TV series that is scheduled to begin airing on Colors in early 2012.

-- Matt Morgan is the inaugural Hvt. champion of the "Ring Ka King" promotion. Morgan beat Scott Steiner in the finals of an eight-man tournament.

-- Three former WWE wrestlers known to be involved in the project are Chris Masters, Chavo Guerrero, and Harry "D.H." Smith.

-- Chavo & Smith are the first tag champions for the promotion.

-- One of the big matches taped for the weekly TV series was Morgan & Guerrero & Smith vs. Steiner & Sonjay Dutt & Magnus in a six-man tag match.

Steiner is playing an antagonizing heel. "Antagonizing" being the key word, as there was reportedly a near-riot during the six-man tag match when Steiner approached fans near the guardrail.


Source: PWTorch

[Rodey]

K3nTa, I don't think you've ever actually explained why the WWE sucks or is boring to you. You just state that it is. You never give reasons on how TNA is so much better either.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I believe that I have... a few times, actually. Not recently, but I have.

[K3nTaKa0s]

WWE wrestler Alberto Del Rio appeared to suffer a shoulder/arm injury in the six-man tag main event of Monday's Raw. WWE has not acknowledged an injury as of Monday night.

After Del Rio tapped out to Daniel Bryan's LeBell Lock for the finish, the referee signaled Del Rio was injured as the face team of Bryan, C.M. Punk, and Zack Ryder celebrated. WWE's ringside doctor then slid into the ring to check on Del Rio, which was the last time Del Rio was shown on-camera.

The apparent injury appeared to be the result of a sequence of events during the match. Near the end of the match, Del Rio was flipped over the top rope to the floor in a routine spot, but he appeared to land hard on the floor. Del Rio, favoring his arm, was slow to re-enter for a tag to Miz setting up the finishing sequence.

During the finishing sequence, Bryan executed a routine top-rope missile dropkick to Del Rio's left shoulder. Del Rio immediately slid to a corner favoring the shoulder. Moments later, Del Rio got up holding his left shoulder, but had enough strength to shove Punk out of the ring and then shove Bryan into the corner with both arms.

When Del Rio and Bryan went to the finish, Del Rio could be seen leaning over talking to the referee while wincing in pain more than just selling. For the finish, Del Rio tried to use his right arm to tease the cross arm-breaker finish, but Bryan countered into the LeBell Lock for the tap-out. Bryan could be seen gingerly applying his submission, which required Del Rio's apparently left shoulder to be trapped inside Bryan's legs. Del Rio used his right arm to tap out for the scheduled finish.

After the finish, Punk could be seen talking to referee Mike Chioda about Del Rio. Punk then gave instructions to Bryan and Ryder to celebrate the victory. Meanwhile, Chioda bent down to check on Del Rio before signaling an injury to ringside and to the hard camera.


Source: PWTorch

[CrashDMB237]

I believe that I have... a few times, actually. Not recently, but I have.

Yea of course you have. "It's just boring" is totally acceptable. Meanwhile a fucking small essay on why everything you said about RVD is false is totally unacceptable.

WOO WOO WOO! amirite?

[K3nTaKa0s]

I've explained my reasoning several times on here in the past. I really don't feel the need to do it again.

--------------

Five-Star Frog Splash
Van Daminator
Van Terminator

^ Those are Rob Van Dam's main moves. He's still doing those. He did those in the 1990s. How is that false? The "small essay," as you called it, does not refute any of that.

Again.. you're looking for something that isn't even there.

[CrashDMB237]

This is going so far over your head it's amazing. So you're telling me you don't care if he looks like shit doing them, you just care that he does them? That actually makes a whole lot of sense. I think we may have the answer to our biggest question in this thread.

[K3nTaKa0s]

No. I don't think I ever said anything like that. I don't care what moves he does. I also don't think he's as bad as you're making him out to be.

He's 41 and doesn't work a lot of house shows. If you're expecting Rob Van Dam matches to be identical to Rob Van Dam / Jerry Lynn, RVD/Mikey Whipwreck, RVD/Lance Storm caliber matches, then I don't know what to say.

I really don't know what you're trying to get at.

[CrashDMB237]

You don't? It's the same thing every single person has been getting at for god only knows how long: the quality SUCKS. They have sexy names that attitude era fans will love, they try all this new innovative shit no matter how much it sucks and you're just completely buying it. Good for you that you can enjoy it, but I can't watch it by choice for more than a few minutes.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Reviews of the RVD/Daniels match...

James Caldwell (PWTorch)...

WINNER: RVD at 10:01. Fine opening match. Enough to get the crowd involved, but not memorable beyond its place on the card. (*3/4)


Wade Keller (PWTorch)...

(WK Reax: Decent opener. It fulfilled its purpose just fine. Nothing close to a must-see match or anything, but a clean win for a babyface over an agitating heel who can take some bumps for him isn't a bad way to start a show.)


Thomas Hall (RSPWFAQ)...

Rating: C. This was really boring for the most part. There was no real heat to the match and they didn’t do anything significantly interesting. I’ve never been a fan of Daniels at all because he doesn’t get anything going for me at all with this being a great example. Still though, it’s him against someone not named AJ Styles so I can’t complain much.


Jason Powell (ProWrestling.net)...

Powell's POV: A good opening match that pleased the live crowd. I'm still not sure what the RVD appeal is at this point. He's a talented performer and all, but will this character ever evolve? I enjoy watching Daniels more because he's at least trying some different things with his character.

--------

Not one reference to RVD looking terrible. I don't know what you're seeing.

[CrashDMB237]

You're serious? No shit they're not going to say RVD looks terrible. He looks terrible in comparison to what he used to be. And when I see RVD, the first thing I think of is the 90s early 2000s RVD that Doors described. Hence, me saying in my original response to you it all seems empty to me. Yes, it's RVD, but it's not the RVD I tuned in to see. Especially when I can tune into WWE and see someone better. Again, hence my preference of WWE.

Let me just preface your response by saying I fully don't expect you to understand a word I just said, and I know you will just either ask my a question that you couldn't answer yourself if I asked you, or you'll say what I'm saying is wrong.

[Speilmen230]

easy kids. We don't want Angela wondering in here and threatening bans again.

[BotheDMBFan]

For what? They're having a semi-heated discussion. Kittens isn't crying about the convo either, so no one cares.

[gocubsgo3822]

This thread seriously sucked today

[BotheDMBFan]

I wasn't here for most of it. Raw was great last night, and I hope it moves forward.

[gocubsgo3822]

It was just bnickering between Captain TNA and Crashdmb

[hbktonyb]

It was a healthy discussion though. Good stuff IMO.

[gocubsgo3822]

So are we going to see a Cena kane feud on the way to Wrestlemania?

Someone on cagesdieseats suggested Kane is acting as Cenas conscious to get him to hate....

Thought?

[CrashDMB237]

It was a healthy discussion though. Good stuff IMO.

I at least tried to keep a level head. It was almost getting kind of hard there though. I would actually love to discuss the TNA WWE thing more just with somebody who will admit that it is their preference to watch TNA and actually have a response for why they don't like WWE.

So are we going to see a Cena kane feud on the way to Wrestlemania?

Someone on cagesdieseats suggested Kane is acting as Cenas conscious to get him to hate....

Thought?

Pretty interesting. That would definitely be a nice little storyline twist and I think it would do wonders for Cena's character. That may be the one thing that me and Mr. TNA agree about. Cena's has gotten totally stale. I know I'm not exactly breaking that news :lol

[BotheDMBFan]

I've loved Cena this year.

[gocubsgo3822]

I at least tried to keep a level head. It was almost getting kind of hard there though. I would actually love to discuss the TNA WWE thing more just with somebody who will admit that it is their preference to watch TNA and actually have a response for why they don't like WWE.



Pretty interesting. That would definitely be a nice little storyline twist and I think it would do wonders for Cena's character. That may be the one thing that me and Mr. TNA agree about. Cena's has gotten totally stale. I know I'm not exactly breaking that news :lol

Disagree.. Think he is finally interesting for the first time ever. Just cause he is acknowledging that people dont like him

[BotheDMBFan]

Thinking of getting the King of the Ring release.

[Speilmen230]

Cena is more interesting now that has has been in the last 4 years. From Nexus in summer of 2010 till now Cena has been relatively entertaining.

[JacobLovesYou]

Just watched RAW, thought it was good. Del Rio being hurt could be a good thing. And to address a few pages ago, Ziggler might be my favorite wrestler right now. I still see Ryder as mostly comedy but he does seem to be improving. The Kane/Cena thing could be fantastic if they don't mess it up. The Jericho thing has me really interested too. No idea where they're going with those promos. The idea on the last page wasn't bad.

[gocubsgo3822]

watching history of wwe championship. The match i am watching right now is HHH Cactus jack from Rumble in MSG... Doubt we ever see some bumps like that again

[CrashDMB237]

Disagree.. Think he is finally interesting for the first time ever. Just cause he is acknowledging that people dont like him

Well yea I'm talking about Cena up until this point. I've actually enjoyed him lately.

[Speilmen230]

That match was insane. Absolutely nuts. I highly highly highly doubt that WWE will ever let it's product get that dangerous or racy ever again.

[bartender_man]

Just watched RAW, thought it was good. Del Rio being hurt could be a good thing. And to address a few pages ago, Ziggler might be my favorite wrestler right now. I still see Ryder as mostly comedy but he does seem to be improving. The Kane/Cena thing could be fantastic if they don't mess it up. The Jericho thing has me really interested too. No idea where they're going with those promos. The idea on the last page wasn't bad.

I hope Cena/Kane ends up being good. If Cena beats Kane clean though, that'll be a huge fucking joke. Means the whole return of the mask is for nothing.

[gocubsgo3822]

That match was insane. Absolutely nuts. I highly highly highly doubt that WWE will ever let it's product get that dangerous or racy ever again.

That pedigree onto the tacks is one of the more dangerous things i have ever seen. Might be more dangerous than going off the cell..

[K3nTaKa0s]

WWE Raw on Monday, December 19 scored a 2.92 rating the night after TLC. It marks the third straight week Raw has scored below a 3.00 rating.

Source: PWTorch

[gocubsgo3822]

Also the pedigree botch on the table at summerslam between rock, angle m and HHH is priceless

[bartender_man]

WWE Raw on Monday, December 19 scored a 2.92 rating the night after TLC. It marks the third straight week Raw has scored below a 3.00 rating.

Source: PWTorch

Not to surprised you would report this :lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

Not to surprised you would report this :lol

I thought someone might be interested in the news.

[kingchrisII]

I at least tried to keep a level head. It was almost getting kind of hard there though. I would actually love to discuss the TNA WWE thing more just with somebody who will admit that it is their preference to watch TNA and actually have a response for why they don't like WWE.

I wouldn't say I am a TNA mark, as there is plenty that I see wrong with it... RVD blows for example. One major issue I have with both TNA and WWE is there wasting of TV time on some veterans who don't deserve it (RVD, Devon, Mark Henry, Kane)

I do however think TNA is more entertaining than WWE. (This could change if Jericho really does come back, imo that would make WWE have the two best talents in the business - Punk and Jericho)

Here are some things TNA does that makes me prefer it (no particular order):

--------------

They still have a cruiserweight division (X-Division)

They use adult language (yes, the lack of cursing makes it impossible for me to believe the show in WWE)

Outside of Punk (who is admittingly miles ahead of everybody in the business sans Jericho), all of the best speakers are in TNA (Anderson, Bully Ray, Pope, Aries, Storm)

The Knockouts are better than the Divas in both looks and ring ability.

Titles change hands frequently on impact. (if titles only change hands on ppvs its too predictable)

adult oriented story lines.

more gimmick matches than wwe (as i have said earlier in the thread: i dont watch wrestling for normal wrestling, i love the blood, crazy spots, etc. etc.

[bartender_man]

I thought someone might be interested in the news.

More like, you are taking another shot at WWE as you have been. All good though, I think current state of WWE ain't great also. Just disagree on your TNA thoughts. I think both suck.

[Speilmen230]

WWE Raw on Monday, December 19 scored a 2.92 rating the night after TLC. It marks the third straight week Raw has scored below a 3.00 rating.

Source: PWTorch

Doesn't shock me. This isn't the 1999 anymore. High twos and low threes are pretty standard.

[CrashDMB237]

as i have said earlier in the thread: i dont watch wrestling for normal wrestling, i love the blood, crazy spots, etc. etc.

And this makes total sense to me, but at least you admit it. You aren't sitting here trying to tell us that TNA does everything better than the WWE. You're telling us WHAT YOUR PREFERENCE is and WHY you prefer TNA to WWE. Thank you, at least SOMEONE can do that here.

[kingchrisII]

And this makes total sense to me, but at least you admit it. You aren't sitting here trying to tell us that TNA does everything better than the WWE. You're telling us WHAT YOUR PREFERENCE is and WHY you prefer TNA to WWE. Thank you, at least SOMEONE can do that here.

I don't think there really is a real "do things better." I feel that is an opinion. I prefer TNA to WWE, so I do think they do things better, but does that mean they do for everybody? No. I don't really understand why people watch wrestling and don't want weapons involved, dirty finishes, etc. etc. The fighting is fake, so why not go over the top with it? If you want to watch a bunch of clean fighting, watch UFC not pro wrestling. (This is of course just an opinion, and I understand that's a minority opinion)

[Rodey]

Doesn't shock me. This isn't the 1999 anymore. High twos and low threes are pretty standard.

Not to mention there was a huge Monday Night Football game on as well.

[Speilmen230]

Not to mention there was a huge Monday Night Football game on as well.

Also, with the explosion of DVR, ratings as a whole have gone down. People don't schedule out their week around tv like they used too. People are freed from that and now can watch when they want. I do this because usually i don't start MNR until 945-10 pm on mondays because of class.

Either way, I honestly don't think WWE is very concerned with their ratings. They are the flagship program on USA, and they not going anywhere. It will be interesting to see what their numbers look like if they make the jump to the WWE network and abandon USA.

[Crush086]

Also, with the explosion of DVR, ratings as a whole have gone down. People don't schedule out their week around tv like they used too. People are freed from that and now can watch when they want. I do this because usually i don't start MNR until 945-10 pm on mondays because of class.

Either way, I honestly don't think WWE is very concerned with their ratings. They are the flagship program on USA, and they not going anywhere. It will be interesting to see what their numbers look like if they make the jump to the WWE network and abandon USA.
Ratings are sure to plummet if they move to an exclusive network that isn't carried by regular cable. USA is convenient because they can be the "Juggernaut" of the station, and since most every household carries your typical standard cable package it's easy to hit the masses. Your "it's still real to me" people watch because they love it so much, and even those casual watchers will tune in since it's part of the cable package.

But you move to something exclusive like the WWE Network and those that casually watch aren't going to bother anymore (when streaming will still be possible), and I figure you're going to lose out on a huge market. That's of course assuming WWEN is something like HBO, Showtime, etc. that'd be considered "premium" cable. If it'd be included in standard cable like USA then this post is worthless lol.

[gocubsgo3822]

http://chaddukeswrestlingshow.com/2011/12/21/kane-vs-john-cena-for-the-wwe-title-wait/

interesting....

[Speilmen230]

Ratings are sure to plummet if they move to an exclusive network that isn't carried by regular cable. USA is convenient because they can be the "Juggernaut" of the station, and since most every household carries your typical standard cable package it's easy to hit the masses. Your "it's still real to me" people watch because they love it so much, and even those casual watchers will tune in since it's part of the cable package.

But you move to something exclusive like the WWE Network and those that casually watch aren't going to bother anymore (when streaming will still be possible), and I figure you're going to lose out on a huge market. That's of course assuming WWEN is something like HBO, Showtime, etc. that'd be considered "premium" cable. If it'd be included in standard cable like USA then this post is worthless lol.

I believe vince is trying to get WWE network on as a standard cable package. I think that is his logic in making all the PPV's available on the network. It will be a huge revenue loss for cable companies so he is trying to muscle his way into the standard package's. I don't have a clue whether it will work or not, but personally i am really hoping so. I don't think i will be willing to pay 15 bucks a month for WWE Network.

[CrashDMB237]

I have a real good feeling about the WWE Network. I don't think it's something I want to miss out on. Seems like a lot of focus on the older stuff while live programming, both Raw/SD and new live network shows will take care of current stuff. I just hope it's part of a cable package.

[hbktonyb]

I hope it is on FIOS.

They should run every episode of Raw, Nitro, ECW shows, including PPVs, in order.

[hbktonyb]

...but they won't because it would feature too much Benoit...

[gocubsgo3822]

Is the chief the only one here who had WWE classics?

[Speilmen230]

Anything classic featuring Beniot they will just omit, IMO. Which is really sad because he was apart of some of the greatest matches of all time, but in reality it is probably better that they don't touch it.

I can definitely see them running old PPV's and Nitro's and Raw is War's. I would love for them to show as much classic stuff as possible.

[Speilmen230]

Is the chief the only one here who had WWE classics?

Yes. I didn't have it. Was it any good?

[gocubsgo3822]

Yes. I didn't have it. Was it any good?

The Chief loved it. It was great getting to choose a classic monday night war episode or a ppv to watch. Well worth 7.99. Chief falls asleep to wreslting every night. Jim ross's voice is a great lullaby

[CrashDMB237]

Anything classic featuring Beniot they will just omit, IMO. Which is really sad because he was apart of some of the greatest matches of all time, but in reality it is probably better that they don't touch it.

I can definitely see them running old PPV's and Nitro's and Raw is War's. I would love for them to show as much classic stuff as possible.

Yea I have a feeling anything that even mentions Benoit will be removed. Can't blame them at all. I don't think they are going to run old PPV's or shows in full, but I can definitely see them featuring them. I know there's going to be a Monday Night Wars series, so we should see a lot of Raw/Nitro there.