Pro Wrestling is FAKE!?!

[jackisback24]

Honestly, this Raw has pretty much made up my mind to not buy Mania, and get it elsewhere
I'm splitting it w/a friend or friends. $30 each or thereabouts...much better.

[hbktonyb]

This gotta be good

[jackisback24]

I think Taker vs. HHH will be 4 stars. This card needed a heel arrogant Orton/Rhodes vs. another team, a Rey vs. Mistico match, good heat for Punk vs. Y2J and the other 2 main matches building themselves. It'll do over 1 million buys, no doubt, but geez.

[ProphetofJit]

People are really bad at chanting things now a days ...

[jackisback24]

Freaky dentist? Isaac Yankem?

[jackisback24]

Anyone here going to Mania? You going to Ring of Honor and Hall of Fame, too?

[hbktonyb]

I'm buying it bc of rock and cena.

[Speilmen230]

i am buying it for HIAC and Punk/Jericho. Rock/Cena is a bonus match as far as i am concerned.

[mwat9050]

God they are so desperate for a split crowd at Mania.

[DoDaFoo]

Yawn to Cena.

[mwat9050]

This crowd is fucking terrible.

[Speilmen230]

Cena needs to be like this all the time. I love this Cena. I love the fire, the passion, and his intensity. He has me pulling for him because of what he has done on the mic during this feud.

[crashintonickdm]

Cena doesn't belong in the ring with rock.

[hbktonyb]

I enjoyed that segment.

[BotheDMBFan]

The Rock doesn't deserve to be in the ring at all.

[crashintonickdm]

What happened to the taker/Hhh segment?

[mwat9050]

No HHH/Taker? hahah. what a joke

[Speilmen230]

yes he does. Cena has improved greatly over the years. And he will prove it on sunday that he belongs to be in there.

[mwat9050]

The Rock doesn't deserve to be in the ring at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but this is just absurd man

[BotheDMBFan]

I cannot wait for him to go the fuck away.

[mwat9050]

yes he does. Cena has improved greatly over the years. And he will prove it on sunday that he belongs to be in there.


He has improved. Hes not a best worker, and hes clumsy, but he can work a good match with the right opponent. Great matches with HBK and PUnk, amonst others

[DoDaFoo]

I wish Cena would go the fuck away.

[jackisback24]

What did they advertise for HHH and Taker?

[mwat9050]

i am buying it for HIAC and Punk/Jericho. Rock/Cena is a bonus match as far as i am concerned.


You arent at all pissed at how they botched this angle? It could have been amazing. Instead, it consisted of segments in which it looke like Jericho pre recorded them. For fucks sake, at least have him come out and cut the promo live at the entrance ramp.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Eric Bischoff, Controversy
Checked out tonights Raw. Cena is one of the best talkers in the business in my opinion.

[BotheDMBFan]

Cena is so much better than he gets credit for. In 20 years, he'll get the respect he deserves.

[Speilmen230]

You arent at all pissed at how they botched this angle? It could have been amazing. Instead, it consisted of segments in which it looke like Jericho pre recorded them. For fucks sake, at least have him come out and cut the promo live at the entrance ramp.

Honestly, they could have built this match around Jericho accidentally bumping into punk and making him spill pepsi on himself for all i care. The match is going be absolutely sick. I really hope it stacks up the way that it should.

Cena is so much better than he gets credit for. In 20 years, he'll get the respect he deserves.

Absolutely.

[mwat9050]

Yea- but it doesnt change the fact that this could have been an amazing angle. And WWe didnt give enough of a fuck about it.

[Speilmen230]

you run that risk when you are putting that match on the same card at HHH/Undertaker HIAC (undertaker going for 20-0) & Cena/Rock. I feel like it will be the HBK/Jericho of this WM. It didn't get the build it deserved but when the dust settles it will have stole the show because of how damn good the match was.

[BotheDMBFan]

It's going to be Steamboat v Savage. Awesomeness.

[Speilmen230]

It's going to be Steamboat v Savage. Awesomeness.

Think it gets top honors? It would be punks second perfect match in less than a year.

[BotheDMBFan]

Steamboat v Savage didn't get 5 stars.

[mwat9050]

you run that risk when you are putting that match on the same card at HHH/Undertaker HIAC (undertaker going for 20-0) & Cena/Rock. I feel like it will be the HBK/Jericho of this WM. It didn't get the build it deserved but when the dust settles it will have stole the show because of how damn good the match was.


True. I'm just really dissapointed I guess. Especially when they had time to do it, but instead they wasted it with the teddy/johnny crap and half the other filler bullshit.

[gocubsgo3822]

I like Cena. The make a wish stuff makes me smile

[mwat9050]

Steamboat v Savage didn't get 5 stars.


True- But thats all arbitrary shit anyway.

[Rodey]

Worst Raw ever.

[K3nTaKa0s]

www.411mania.com

- Chris Jericho has extended his current WWE deal. The contract was originally for six months but it has been extended for another severalk months, making him full time in the company through summer.

It isn't yet known what will happen with the previously-scheduled Fozzy tour, but his "tour of duty" has he's jokingly called it is confirmed. He may continue to feud with Punk or he could be drafted over to Smackdown after WrestleMania.

[mwat9050]

Worst Raw ever.


I'm actually dumbfounded by it. That was their fucking Mania go home show? The shitty crowd didn't help either.

[gocubsgo3822]

Chicago is such an awesome wrestling town. Atlanta shitty like always

[mwat9050]

Chicago is such an awesome wrestling town. Atlanta shitty like always


Chicago has been great. Is Atlanta always bad? I never really noticed

[Speilmen230]

maybe that is why wcw failed. Based out of a shitty wrestling town.

[gocubsgo3822]

It's just Atlanta shitty for everything.

Why does great khali appear on my tv. Turrible.

Edit: team Johnny better win

[gocubsgo3822]

maybe that is why wcw failed. Based out of a shitty wrestling town.

I would say the regionalism for sure has something to do with it. Not as much as most of the other shit but still for some of it

[mwat9050]

It's just Atlanta shitty for everything.

Why does great khali appear on my tv. Turrible.

Edit: team Johnny better win


Hahaha. This is a great. When Khali appears on my tv, I want to put out lit cigarettes on my chest

[JacobLovesYou]

You guys complaining about Punk/Jericho aren't seeing the big picture. After Sunday, when HHH, Rock, Taker, and HBK aren't around, Punk and Jericho will move to the main event and become the feud we want it to be. They aren't going to waste the face to face promo work for when they're the 3rd most important match. At Extreme Rules, they'll main event and the run-up to that will be much better. They're just treading water right now in my eyes.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Shouldn't Wrestlemania be where feuds end?

[GrooGrux420]

Shouldn't Wrestlemania be where feuds end?

In theory yes it should be. However, not all feuds can end because there still has to be something making fans want to comeback. Like they say in show business, always leave them wanting more.

[bartender_man]

Pretty weak raw overall. I thought cena and rock delivered though. Rock was much more convincing this week. Cena did good even though I hate his guts. I hope rock wins or cena win via heel turn. A clean cena win means pg over attitude and that would be pathetic if you ask me...

[bartender_man]

The Rock doesn't deserve to be in the ring at all.

You must be a 13 year old child no?

[BotheDMBFan]

I liked him when I was a 13 year old child. Now as an adult, he is a boring hack who is wasting time and taking someone else's spot. We could have had Cena v Punk as the main event for Wrestlemania this year. We got this shit instead.

[justinandimcool]

Cena has clearly outworked Rock on the mic the past month and a half, is that even disputable?

[hbktonyb]

I don't understand how some people can't see how good Cena has been, really since the Punk feud.

[CrashDMB237]

maybe that is why wcw failed. Based out of a shitty wrestling town.

WCW failed because Bischoff is an idiot and let the inmates run the asylum. Guys were booking their own matches, deciding when they were going to get in the ring and when they didn't feel like getting in the ring, creating their own storylines. It was a total mess. How do you steal Bret Hart from the WWF and turn him into a mid carder?

Shouldn't Wrestlemania be where feuds end?

This:

In theory yes it should be. However, not all feuds can end because there still has to be something making fans want to comeback. Like they say in show business, always leave them wanting more.

Cena has clearly outworked Rock on the mic the past month and a half, is that even disputable?

It isn't really. Anyone saying the Rock has been better on the mic is clinging to the attitude era a bit too much.

I don't understand how some people can't see how good Cena has been, really since the Punk feud.

Definitely agreed. Cena has been very enjoyable. The one thing I disliked about Cena was the "super Cena" shit. That's been totally dumped. It's a great character evolution really. And I look forward to seeing where it goes AFTER this.

[Doors Allan Coe]

maybe that is why wcw failed. Based out of a shitty wrestling town.

WCW failed because Bischoff is an idiot and let the inmates run the asylum. Guys were booking their own matches, deciding when they were going to get in the ring and when they didn't feel like getting in the ring, creating their own storylines. It was a total mess. How do you steal Bret Hart from the WWF and turn him into a mid carder?



1) Atlanta isn't a bad wrestling town. The Omni housed tons of WWF's competitors and routinely sold out for decades.

2)Yes, Bischoff sucks. But, he didn't single handedly ruin WCW. By right he also almost singleganedly saved WCW. WCW died because they weren't run like a business. IF you look toward the demise, it wasn't just because of the product. It's not like they could lose TV time. They had tons of resources.

The AOL Time-Warner merger is what caused Turner to cut it's bad debt and money losing projects. If WCW wan't bleeding millions of dollars they could have skidded by. But, when a new set of eyes took a look at WCW numbers it became clear that between the huge overhead, trashiness of the product, and huge liability that AOL/Warner didn't want anything to do with WCW.

Bischoff defintely played a huge role in inflating the budget. But, for a short while he was bringing in so much revenue it wasn't as idotic as it turned out.

The Bret Hart thing is a PERFECT example. WCW truly had the WWF drowning. The Bret Hart contract Vince signed was huge. So huge Vince took the oppritunity to opt out of the deal and let Bret go to WCW. Bret didn't leave for a pay-cut. Seriously think about that situation, just a couple years earlier Bret signed an inflated multi-million dollar deal with the WWF. At the height of the "Monday Night Wars" Vince and Bret nullified so Bret could take the outrageous WCW payday and the WWF wouldn't be on the hook for millions. Turned out to be both a great business move and ironically an AMAZING storyline.

Personally I think Wrestling With Shadows is one of the greatest works of all-time. To me it's too coincidental that cameras were rolling to capture every minute of the greatest kayfabe busting storyline of all-time.

[Rodey]

People really think Cena was that good last night and has been that good?

He's been better than usual, but I can't agree with those who are saying he's been awesome. This whole, "I've never cared what the fans think and have always dealt with it either way" talk he's be going on about is so contradictory to his character.

[crush0617]

I actually think the Rock/Cena build has been fantastic and I actually want to see this match. Not having them touch at all was completely the right move.
Regarding Punk/Jericho I think Punk should have gotten more mic time but, we all know it will be a great match in the ring.
The HHH/Taker video last night was great although I would have liked to see them on the show last night.
Cody needs to be moved up to the main event after mania. Really drew mcintyre is getting a Mania pay day. I am guessing Mania gets around 1.25 million buys

[K3nTaKa0s]

WCW failed because Bischoff is an idiot and let the inmates run the asylum. Guys were booking their own matches, deciding when they were going to get in the ring and when they didn't feel like getting in the ring, creating their own storylines. It was a total mess. How do you steal Bret Hart from the WWF and turn him into a mid carder?


Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ha, ha, ha.

[DoDaFoo]

I like Cena. The make a wish stuff makes me smile

I think that as a person Cena is amazing and completely agree with you on the Make a Wish stuff. I just hate Cena's "character". It's beyond stale to me and this feud with Rock has driven it home for me even more.

[JacobLovesYou]

this is something that came to me about a week ago. i don't think it will happen, but if it does, i don't want to have never predicted it. at WM, Taker wins and Rock wins.

Next night, Rock comes out and starts his promo about how he's the greatest superstar ever because he's beat Austin, Hogan, and Cena at WM. halfway through, the lights go out, and that's when WWE sets up next years WM main event. Rock vs Taker.

[hbktonyb]

this is something that came to me about a week ago. i don't think it will happen, but if it does, i don't want to have never predicted it. at WM, Taker wins and Rock wins.

Next night, Rock comes out and starts his promo about how he's the greatest superstar ever because he's beat Austin, Hogan, and Cena at WM. halfway through, the lights go out, and that's when WWE sets up next years WM main event. Rock vs Taker.

This would be sick. I think next year's Mania should be Rock/Taker and Punk/Austin. Cena should be so distraught over the loss that a mean streak is finally let loose. I'd also be ok with Taker/Cena, Punk/Austin or Rock. Really don't care about Brock Lesner honestly.

[gocubsgo3822]

I think that as a person Cena is amazing and completely agree with you on the Make a Wish stuff. I just hate Cena's "character". It's beyond stale to me and this feud with Rock has driven it home for me even more.

I kinda like Cena inside the ring and on the mic too. I have been watching a lot of old dr. Of thuganomics videos. Hilarious. I think Cena and rock have been great in this feud. Sure I would like Cena to sell some moves better but in the end he is awesome.

this is something that came to me about a week ago. i don't think it will happen, but if it does, i don't want to have never predicted it. at WM, Taker wins and Rock wins.

Next night, Rock comes out and starts his promo about how he's the greatest superstar ever because he's beat Austin, Hogan, and Cena at WM. halfway through, the lights go out, and that's when WWE sets up next years WM main event. Rock vs Taker.

Interesting. Could be. Or the glass could shatter...

[Speilmen230]

Punk and Austin teasing 29.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/252089-cm-punk-and-steve-austin-tease-a-wrestlemania-29-match

Rock jobs to Cena Sunday and shakes his hand. Big mixed reaction from the crowd, but none the less the golden boy is going out on top and rightfully so. Punk backs up his best in the world proclamation, and then Austin comes out and challenges Punk next year at WM. Cena gets back into the title picture and we have ourselves a nice little main event scene with Punk, Cena, & Jericho barring one of them getting drafted over to SD!.

[Speilmen230]

Here is how i would set up the match card for WM.



12 Man Tag Team Match For Control of Raw and Smackdown:
-Team Laurinaitis vs Team Long

-Randy Orton vs. Kane

WWE World Heavyweight Championship Match:
-Daniel Bryan (c) vs. Sheamus

WWE Intercontinental Title Match:
-Cody Rhodes (c) vs. Big Show

WWE Championship Match:
-CM Punk (c) vs. Chris Jericho

Hell in a Cell Match:
-The Undertaker vs. Triple H. Shawn Michaels will serve as the special guest referee of the match.

Divas Tag Team Match:
-Kelly Kelly and Maria Menounos vs. Beth Phoenix and Eve Torres

-John Cena vs. The Rock

[Rodey]

Still think Cena needs to go heel at Mania.

[CrashDMB237]

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. Ha, ha, ha.

Exactly what do you know about the Monday night wars and how WCW operated?

[jackisback24]

Here is how i would set up the match card for WM.
I understand the theory of a break between Hell in the Cell and the main event, but not the divas as the semi. Pleasse.


Jamie Kellner at TBS/Time Warner put the final nail in WCW's coffin by taking all of wrestling off the air with TBS, thus making the property worthless. Bischoff's backers took off and they dumped the videotape library at a firesale price to Vince. What led up to WCW tanking would need 3 pages to go through.

[cry_minarets458]

i haven't watched wrestling since val venus and ken shamrock had their feuds, but goddamn, even i am excited about this wrestlemania. i have to find somewhere to watch it.

[bartender_man]

Still think Cena needs to go heel at Mania.

100 percent agreed. Wont happen though :shrug. Instead we get the clean Cena win. Boring and extremely predictable...

[bartender_man]

Here is how i would set up the match card for WM.

Looks pretty good :thumbsup

[K3nTaKa0s]

The 3/26 WrestleMania go-home edition of Raw did a 3.04 rating, with 4,443,000 viewers. The show did hours of 2.96 and 3.12. The show did 10,000 more viewers in hour two than they did in hour one. Obviously, this isn't a rousing number for WWE.

Source: PWInsider

[BotheDMBFan]

It's becoming more and more likely that Punk v Jericho opens. :(

[bartender_man]

It's becoming more and more likely that Punk v Jericho opens. :(

That match needs to be 30 minutes, wherever it is placed

[BotheDMBFan]

It'll get 20 if it's lucky, IMO.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Who's taking the blame in WWE if Wrestlemania does a less-than-expected buyrate? They can't blame Miz for this one.

[BotheDMBFan]

Hopefully they'll finally blame Rock's stale ass.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I don't think they want to burn that bridge, though. I think they want to use him again down the road. Plus, he's a revenue generator.

[BotheDMBFan]

It's great when they do crowd shots during his promos and you just see huge sections of the audience bored.

[K3nTaKa0s]

It's great when they do crowd shots during his promos and you just see huge sections of the audience bored.

They screwed up with Rock by bringing him back at Survivor Series. They shouldn't have announced the match a year ahead of time. He should've just showed up about 6-8 weeks ago.

[BotheDMBFan]

They screwed up with Rock by bringing him back at Survivor Series. They shouldn't have announced the match a year ahead of time. He should've just showed up about 6-8 weeks ago.

I wouldn't have even minded just them starting the build from Survivor Series, or the Royal Rumble. Both would have worked. The doing it a year in advance hurt a lot of things for the event. Rock being terrible for most of this run hasn't helped at all, either.

[hbktonyb]

I liked the year build. The more Rock, the better.

[BotheDMBFan]

Except he sucked. Maybe he should have won a title via satellite or something.

[hbktonyb]

Rock sucked? No way.

[BotheDMBFan]

He has blown miserably almost the entire time. Rock Concert was great, that's about it.

[hbktonyb]

Disagree. Sure he'll never equal attitude Rock but he's still better than 99% of the roster.

[justinandimcool]

They screwed up with Rock by bringing him back at Survivor Series. They shouldn't have announced the match a year ahead of time. He should've just showed up about 6-8 weeks ago.

this. it's totally stale and the match hasn't even happened. Cena has to pretty much shoot in order to carry the feud. that said, still looking forward to the in-ring performance of these two.

[BotheDMBFan]

I'd rather see almost every single midcard guy over him right now.

[Speilmen230]

It has been nice having the rock back, but I'm good with him being gone after wm. He just distracts from the overall talent.

[mwat9050]

You guys complaining about Punk/Jericho aren't seeing the big picture. After Sunday, when HHH, Rock, Taker, and HBK aren't around, Punk and Jericho will move to the main event and become the feud we want it to be. They aren't going to waste the face to face promo work for when they're the 3rd most important match. At Extreme Rules, they'll main event and the run-up to that will be much better. They're just treading water right now in my eyes.


I was thinking this could be the case as well, and hoping so because I will be at Extreme Rules, but still......

[mwat9050]

1) Atlanta isn't a bad wrestling town. The Omni housed tons of WWF's competitors and routinely sold out for decades.

2)Yes, Bischoff sucks. But, he didn't single handedly ruin WCW. By right he also almost singleganedly saved WCW. WCW died because they weren't run like a business. IF you look toward the demise, it wasn't just because of the product. It's not like they could lose TV time. They had tons of resources.

The AOL Time-Warner merger is what caused Turner to cut it's bad debt and money losing projects. If WCW wan't bleeding millions of dollars they could have skidded by. But, when a new set of eyes took a look at WCW numbers it became clear that between the huge overhead, trashiness of the product, and huge liability that AOL/Warner didn't want anything to do with WCW.

Bischoff defintely played a huge role in inflating the budget. But, for a short while he was bringing in so much revenue it wasn't as idotic as it turned out.

The Bret Hart thing is a PERFECT example. WCW truly had the WWF drowning. The Bret Hart contract Vince signed was huge. So huge Vince took the oppritunity to opt out of the deal and let Bret go to WCW. Bret didn't leave for a pay-cut. Seriously think about that situation, just a couple years earlier Bret signed an inflated multi-million dollar deal with the WWF. At the height of the "Monday Night Wars" Vince and Bret nullified so Bret could take the outrageous WCW payday and the WWF wouldn't be on the hook for millions. Turned out to be both a great business move and ironically an AMAZING storyline.

Personally I think Wrestling With Shadows is one of the greatest works of all-time. To me it's too coincidental that cameras were rolling to capture every minute of the greatest kayfabe busting storyline of all-time.

Not sure if I read this right.....you think the screwjob was a work?

[mwat9050]

Cena has clearly outworked Rock on the mic the past month and a half, is that even disputable?

Yes and no....Cena has been REALLY good, but he's been allowed to take low blows and "shoot" on Rock. Rock isn't doing that.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Not sure if I read this right.....you think the screwjob was a work?

Yeah.

If I had to guess, I would say it was a work. Obviously the circumstances were real, but the way it went down seems calculated.

They had a documentary crew following Bret the whole time. The way it played out at Survivor Series seems a bit over dramatic. Plus, The documentary compliments the angle that played out on TV before, during, and after Bret left. The whole "Bret, Screwed Bret" thing seems like it was well thought out. It got Vince over as the ultimate heel and it allowed Bret to leave without laying down to Shawn. Bret got to make more money than Vince could have ever paid him.

Plus, I've heard lots of people say it's the greatest work of all time. I don't know if that's just opinion, but it's also my opinion.

[mwat9050]

Yeah.

If I had to guess, I would say it was a work. Obviously the circumstances were real, but the way it went down seems calculated.

They had a documentary crew following Bret the whole time. The way it played out at Survivor Series seems a bit over dramatic. Plus, The documentary compliments the angle that played out on TV before, during, and after Bret left. The whole "Bret, Screwed Bret" thing seems like it was well thought out. It got Vince over as the ultimate heel and it allowed Bret to leave without laying down to Shawn. Bret got to make more money than Vince could have ever paid him.

Plus, I've heard lots of people say it's the greatest work of all time. I don't know if that's just opinion, but it's also my opinion.


That last statement you made, I've heard a lot as well. I dont know. It's one of those wierd things. At times, its made out to believe that Vince helped Bret get the contract out of guilt, and like you said, to get WWF off the hook. HBK was not happy that Bret made more money than he did.

The aftermath, like you said, could not have worked out any better, except for Bret with his midcard status and eventual carrer ending match.

I think that the screwjob moment was acutally legit though. Bret was paranoid about it, and knew something like that was coming. That was his explanation with the camera crew being there, at least.

I downloaded pdf files of Meltzers insanely detailed coverage of the situation in the wrestling observer from that era, from one of the wrestling torrent sites. Although hes not the end all be all know-it-all he claims to be, it is quite an interesting read. Let me know if you want me to upload it for you, if you havent already read it. Even if your not a Meltzer fan, its apretty damn interesting read.

[mwat9050]

I dont think Bret would have held the grudge with HBK all this time, if it was all a pure work. Who knows though. Their rivalry dvd was pretty interesting when that topic came up about the screwjob, and the events leading up to it.

Vince knew what he was doing though, and he knew the heat would be on him, making him the uber heel. maybe he didnt expect it to get to the level it did, but he had to figure something was going to come of it.

Very interesting subject though. I love discussing the "screwjob".

[JacobLovesYou]

Rock has been boring. 6 weeks ago the crowd chanted after every phrase he said. Last night he paused several times for chants that never started. His "lady parts" & "trending worldwide!" shtick got old fast. I wanted to hear about why he wanted in the match. They finally started getting into that the last 2 weeks. They did a passable job at selling the feud, but a bad job at selling the match. We're all excited for it because how can't we be. They've done a great job for 4 straight years at selling Takers match, and not just the feud. The whole Rock/Cena thing should've been about "nobody remembers #2" from Cena & "becoming the greatest ever" from Rock. No Cena shooting, no lady parts, no trending worldwide. The feud lacked intensity.

I'm still psyched for the match because I have a pulse and it should be awesome.

[mwat9050]

Rock has been boring. 6 weeks ago the crowd chanted after every phrase he said. Last night he paused several times for chants that never started. His "lady parts" & "trending worldwide!" shtick got old fast. I wanted to hear about why he wanted in the match. They finally started getting into that the last 2 weeks. They did a passable job at selling the feud, but a bad job at selling the match. We're all excited for it because how can't we be. They've done a great job for 4 straight years at selling Takers match, and not just the feud. The whole Rock/Cena thing should've been about "nobody remembers #2" from Cena & "becoming the greatest ever" from Rock. No Cena shooting, no lady parts, no trending worldwide. The feud lacked intensity.

I'm still psyched for the match because I have a pulse and it should be awesome.


Great thoughts on that there. Pretty much sums alot of how I feel about it as well. Not to sound like a crabfuck here, but WWE seems to drop the ball on angles. There are some that are great, and most in part of the performers taking the lead. This fued lacked that intesity, you spoke of. A years build, and it came off as guys just saying there shit in the ring, and the other guy (just sitting there like an asshead for 10 minutes waiting for his turn to speak) did not sell the match. The blatant Cena burying Rock, but ROck doing his shtick in attempt to say he didnt bury Cena. They didn't do wonders to sell the actual match though. I think it will great, nontheless, but they didn't help themselves in making it would it could have been.

And for those that hate the Rock cause he's back, "taking somebody's spot", and all that other shit, the Rock has done buisness well. He's letting Cean shit all over him, without heated response, to get WWE's hard on of making Mania a 50/50 split and getting Cena over with the fans. They make no secret about it. That is the goal of this "fued". Rock is doing Cena a HUGE favor here. People don't realize that. This is supposed to get Cena over even more now, adn for fucks sake, Rock talking shit to him about "fruity pebbles" made Cena a ton of money being on cereal boxes now. The Rock is coming back and doing buisness. It's not like Hogan, who never did it that way. He put over the Rock at WM18, but its few and far between with the other years. He didnt even put HBK over, who was a fulltime worker then, and Hogan made like 3 appearences. That is exactly why Cena will go over Rock sunday. Its absurd not to. Disrespectful to the work Cean puts in a now( and i'm not a Cena fan)

[gocubsgo3822]

That last statement you made, I've heard a lot as well. I dont know. It's one of those wierd things. At times, its made out to believe that Vince helped Bret get the contract out of guilt, and like you said, to get WWF off the hook. HBK was not happy that Bret made more money than he did.

The aftermath, like you said, could not have worked out any better, except for Bret with his midcard status and eventual carrer ending match.

I think that the screwjob moment was acutally legit though. Bret was paranoid about it, and knew something like that was coming. That was his explanation with the camera crew being there, at least.

I downloaded pdf files of Meltzers insanely detailed coverage of the situation in the wrestling observer from that era, from one of the wrestling torrent sites. Although hes not the end all be all know-it-all he claims to be, it is quite an interesting read. Let me know if you want me to upload it for you, if you havent already read it. Even if your not a Meltzer fan, its apretty damn interesting read.

Can you email me? I would love to read them.

Pm if you can :)

[BotheDMBFan]

So would I.

[CrashDMB237]

I am almost 100% certain that the screwjob was not a work. I've seen many many interviews with many many people that were involved first hand with the situation and well... I guess if it was a work the people who said "this is the greatest work of all time" were right, because to this day they are playing it off pretty well.

[JacobLovesYou]

Its a great topic still because I feel like there are only about 5 people out there who know the whole story.

[CrashDMB237]

Its a great topic still because I feel like there are only about 5 people out there who know the whole story.

And they all have the exact same recollection of the event. Which is why I don't think it was a work... or the single greatest work of all time. I highly doubt it though.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I am almost 100% certain that the screwjob was not a work. I've seen many many interviews with many many people that were involved first hand with the situation and well... I guess if it was a work the people who said "this is the greatest work of all time" were right, because to this day they are playing it off pretty well.

Its a great topic still because I feel like there are only about 5 people out there who know the whole story.

And they all have the exact same recollection of the event. Which is why I don't think it was a work... or the single greatest work of all time. I highly doubt it though.

The funny things is, "the exact same recollection" is the exact events the transpired on TV and in the documentary. It's akin to retelling a famous storyline. Edit: I'm not sure if your talking about Bret/Shawn shoots or other worker shoots.

I know you highly doubt it. But, Mcmahon is a great wrestling mind. Mcmahon/Bret/Shawn were all in a situation they knew was extremely unique. I personally find the over the top finish, spitting, and the destruction of the set by Bret a bit dramatic. Not to mention they highlighted EVERYTHING on Raw.

Remember pro wrestling is about blurring the line between reality and fiction. This angle was at the height of wrestlings reality/crash tv craze. It's not like the WWF didn't attempt to do stuff like this before.

Remember Brian Pillman's debut? The strange press conference. The 4th wall being broken and WWF exec's talking about getting out of his contract. It's not as if the WWF didn't try over and over to fool us during the time period. WCW was doing the same thing.

You can look at it as if Vince Mcmahon "lucked" into the Screwjob. But, I tend to think, it was a calculated move in which Mcmahon blurred the lines of reality and truly created a moving story. That night has held up the test of time, not because everybody laughed and said "we fooled you" but because they left it to our imagination.

I know this isn't a great example, but when I put on shows I would routinely keep guys in the dark about other people matches and stories. When I used to post the line-up I NEVER put who was going over or how. Just match/time/ref. Just knowing how I worked and I've seen other work with top talent it's not uncommon for only 3-4 people to actually know what's going down. It's not hard to fool an entire locker room. I'm not saying that happens all the time, but I tend to think Mcmahon put a lot of thought in Bret's exit.

But, I've heard a few crazy stories that people say are totally false, but I have no choice but to respect the source and use all the information and circumstances to determine whether I think it's true or not.

Either way "nobody" is certain.

[crush0617]

I don't see any chance of the full blown Cena turn but, I would like to see him win in away that drives home that he HAD to win this match.

[JacobLovesYou]

what Doors says about only a few people knowing and fooling the locker room sounds a bit like Punks big promo from the summer. according to him, after RAW went off air he walked backstage from the side and a whole bunch of wrestlers were around a TV monitor speechless, a few noticeably upset because they had no idea it was coming and thought Punk was about to get crucified by Vince.

[Doors Allan Coe]

what Doors says about only a few people knowing and fooling the locker room sounds a bit like Punks big promo from the summer. according to him, after RAW went off air he walked backstage from the side and a whole bunch of wrestlers were around a TV monitor speechless, a few noticeably upset because they had no idea it was coming and thought Punk was about to get crucified by Vince.

Exactly.

Anyone remember the Matt Hardy/Edge/Lita angle? I remember the night Matt jumped the rail and talked about going to see him in ROH into a live mic. Later it was clear with was a work because Matt returned.

Bret's return took almost a decade. But, if you take into consideration the Owen's death and Bret's injury it's doesn't seem like that long.

Makes you wonder how after all that why Randy Savage never-ever returned...;)

[JacobLovesYou]

ive read people predict that lord tensai is going to be cena's post WM feud. I dont really know what they're going to do, i just pray that they keep Cena out of the title picture. He's been a more interesting and tolerable character over the last 6 months.

[hbktonyb]

I fucking hated hairy Albert and I'm sure I'm going to hate him just as much as Lord Tensai. What a clown.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I fucking hated hairy Albert and I'm sure I'm going to hate him just as much as Lord Tensai. What a clown.

Whoa whoa whoa? Albert is back in the states?

I wasn't a huge fan of his years ago. But, he's been in Japan a while. It feels like years and years. He might be a lot better than the last time he was on WWE TV.

I had no idea he was coming back to the WWE.

[hbktonyb]

Yeah they have been running Lord Tensai promos. I'm sure he's improved but I can't see myself looking at him as anything more than hairy Albert or A-Train.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Yeah they have been running Lord Tensai promos. I'm sure he's improved but I can't see myself looking at him as anything more than hairy Albert or A-Train.

So he's like a big fat hairy 21st century Glacier?

[jaking1185]

So he's like a big fat hairy 21st century Glacier?

I remember all the build-up for him making him seem like a superhero. Then he comes out and he get abused by everyone. Just another case of WCW trying to run in all directions at that time.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I remember all the build-up for him making him seem like a superhero. Then he comes out and he get abused by everyone. Just another case of WCW trying to run in all directions at that time.

He started out going over. I'm pretty he wasn't abused by anybody in his initial debut or the matches that followed. It just so happened that he was the shining example of corny un-cool WCW compared to the new cool nWo.

I mean, the nWo was basically a shoot-style faction. Glacier was supposed to be some ancient Mortal Kombat ripoff.

I don't mind hating on WCW, but with the nWo taking off, who really ever could give a shit about Glacier? I'm sure if they didn't strike gold with the nWo that Glacier wouldn't have been overlooked. I mean the sheer expense of his infamous ring entrance should be an example of the fact they did invest a lot into him, it just so happens snow during your ring entrance and dressing like Sub-Zero wasn't as popular as emerging from the crowd or wearing a t-shirt and jeans back in 96-97.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Glacier had some wins to start out! But Mortis and Wrath ended up being too much for Glacier to handle.

Oh! And we got Ernest Miller out of that feud.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Glacier had some wins to start out! But Mortis and Wrath ended up being too much for Glacier to handle.

Oh! And we got Ernest Miller out of that feud.

Yeah.

Things could have turned out better for Glacier. But, would any sane person ever consider derailing the nWo storyline in 96-97 to try and get a journeyman like Glacier over?

Nothing against him, but he really wasn't spectacular. I think it became hard to inject a character like Glacier into the nWo style storylines. If anything he was more of a punchline for the nWo than a somebody who could actually draw fans or get PPV buys. Instead of trying to work him in, they basically created an alternate story for him. All the strange Wrath/Mortis/Glacier shit... at least that wasn't headlining...

[mwat9050]

Remeber when Albert had the stellar name "Giant Bernard"? hahahaha

[Doors Allan Coe]

Remeber when Albert had the stellar name "Giant Bernard"? hahahaha

Funny, I thought that was his best name...

To a Japanese audience an Amercian named Giant Bernard isn't much more ridiculous than Andre the Giant, Giant Baba, or Great Muta...you could almost aruge that it's a good name considering the crowd he was working in front of...

[JacobLovesYou]

if you need proof that Rock/Cena lacked intensity, just look at the RAW rating. worst number for a go home WM show since what, like 97 i think i read. the feud lacked in whatever the "it" factor is that draws in people who aren't weekly viewers.

having said that, it should be one of the top WM moments ever still.

[mwat9050]

Yeah.

If I had to guess, I would say it was a work. Obviously the circumstances were real, but the way it went down seems calculated.

They had a documentary crew following Bret the whole time. The way it played out at Survivor Series seems a bit over dramatic. Plus, The documentary compliments the angle that played out on TV before, during, and after Bret left. The whole "Bret, Screwed Bret" thing seems like it was well thought out. It got Vince over as the ultimate heel and it allowed Bret to leave without laying down to Shawn. Bret got to make more money than Vince could have ever paid him.

Plus, I've heard lots of people say it's the greatest work of all time. I don't know if that's just opinion, but it's also my opinion.


True- but you have to remember that although it was a documnetary, it was also a "movie". It's purpose was also to make money. SO of course they would add the build like that, and over-glorify it.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Yeah.

Things could have turned out better for Glacier. But, would any sane person ever consider derailing the nWo storyline in 96-97 to try and get a journeyman like Glacier over?

Nothing against him, but he really wasn't spectacular. I think it became hard to inject a character like Glacier into the nWo style storylines. If anything he was more of a punchline for the nWo than a somebody who could actually draw fans or get PPV buys. Instead of trying to work him in, they basically created an alternate story for him. All the strange Wrath/Mortis/Glacier shit... at least that wasn't headlining...

Hell.. every other segment on Nitro involved something nWo. Glacier was probably happy just to get on television every week. Hell no, it wasn't headlining. Those matches were always in the first hour of the PPVs. I guess if they really wanted to get Glacier over, they could've done what they did to everyone else that wasn't over.. put them in an nWo t-shirt.

[jaking1185]

He started out going over. I'm pretty he wasn't abused by anybody in his initial debut or the matches that followed. It just so happened that he was the shining example of corny un-cool WCW compared to the new cool nWo.

I mean, the nWo was basically a shoot-style faction. Glacier was supposed to be some ancient Mortal Kombat ripoff.

I don't mind hating on WCW, but with the nWo taking off, who really ever could give a shit about Glacier? I'm sure if they didn't strike gold with the nWo that Glacier wouldn't have been overlooked. I mean the sheer expense of his infamous ring entrance should be an example of the fact they did invest a lot into him, it just so happens snow during your ring entrance and dressing like Sub-Zero wasn't as popular as emerging from the crowd or wearing a t-shirt and jeans back in 96-97.

That's a good way of putting it. It seemed that WCW always had something quirky running in the background. I forgot that he was scheduled to debut around the time of Bash at the Beach and Hogan's NWO turn. That whole Mortal Kombat-themed wrestlers was just a plain terrible idea.

And other than Big Bubba, I don't think Glacier beat anyone of note.

[K3nTaKa0s]

And other than Big Bubba, I don't think Glacier beat anyone of note.

And Jerry Flynn.

[CrashDMB237]

Glacier didn't have shit on the Shockmaster.

[jaking1185]

And Jerry Flynn.

I wouldn't consider him of note, but he was pretty decent in ECW.

[jaking1185]

Glacier didn't have shit on the Shockmaster.

Still the best intro ever!

[Doors Allan Coe]

True- but you have to remember that although it was a documnetary, it was also a "movie". It's purpose was also to make money. SO of course they would add the build like that, and over-glorify it.

Well, it didn't make much money. I know Vince tried to hinder the filmmaker from distributing it. Hell, I got my copy years ago tape trading. I don't think it was really in stores until recently.

I guess that supports the theory that Vince didn't want the footage released.

It's a tough call, but I defintely hear a lot of workers say its was "the greatest work ever".

[bartender_man]

I don't see any chance of the full blown Cena turn but, I would like to see him win in away that drives home that he HAD to win this match.

Yeah I can go with that...

[bartender_man]

if you need proof that Rock/Cena lacked intensity, just look at the RAW rating. worst number for a go home WM show since what, like 97 i think i read. the feud lacked in whatever the "it" factor is that draws in people who aren't weekly viewers.

having said that, it should be one of the top WM moments ever still.

Since 97? Wow...

[DoDaFoo]

if you need proof that Rock/Cena lacked intensity, just look at the RAW rating. worst number for a go home WM show since what, like 97 i think i read. the feud lacked in whatever the "it" factor is that draws in people who aren't weekly viewers.

having said that, it should be one of the top WM moments ever still.

The problem is that during the year long build for this match, both guys have just been saying the same thing over and over again, just coming up with slightly different ways of saying it. I think the match itself will be a spectacle, but they've botched the build up from a story line stand point.

[Speilmen230]

a 7 week long super intense physical build works better IMO than a year long laid back build that gets intensified 5 weeks before WM.

If Rock had returned out of no where at Elimination Chamber causing Cena to lose his match against Kane, then you have an instant feud. Cena is pissed at Rock and Rock came back making a statement. Then the two have 6 Monday Night Raw's to get the feud going and get it heated. Booking wise to me it just makes more sense. A hot 6 week build where rock is there live for 6 straight weeks is much easier to plan for then a year long build of via satellite promo's and twitter wars.

[jackisback24]

How many are buying the show, watching w/a group of friends or are doing something illegal to watch? Will most watch whole thing, knowing it ends after 11pm est on a work night? Just curious.

[Speilmen230]

I am purchasing, making deep dish pepperoni pizza from scratch, and having my buddy and his gf over. Neither of them really enjoy wrestling but i convinced them to give it a shot. And what better show to do it than this year's WM.

[Doors Allan Coe]

can somebody please sell me on this card?

I feel like I'm going to be buying this PPV for 2 matches. Both of which might fail.

[Speilmen230]

Punk/Jericho. Those two are going to tear the roof down. Pure wrestling at it's finest.

if you were at all a fan of HHH/Undertaker last year then you will most likely like what it in store for this year, possibly setting up HHH/HBK for next year.

Rock/Cena is going to be a moment. It will be Rock/Hogan all over again where the moment that culminates is just too good not to watch.

[bartender_man]

How many are buying the show, watching w/a group of friends or are doing something illegal to watch? Will most watch whole thing, knowing it ends after 11pm est on a work night? Just curious.

I'll def be getting it. Look forward for sure

[gocubsgo3822]

After reading Metzlers newsletter about the Montreal Screwjob i just dont think its a work.. More thoughts tomorrow after i finish part two.

Also i was reminded about the 900 numbers... lol Anyone ever call one. I did once my mom caught me and was furious.

[mwat9050]

After reading Metzlers newsletter about the Montreal Screwjob i just dont think its a work.. More thoughts tomorrow after i finish part two.

Also i was reminded about the 900 numbers... lol Anyone ever call one. I did once my mom caught me and was furious.


It's crazy detailed, isnt it?

[JacobLovesYou]

I'd like to be pointed in the direction of that Metzler piece.

[JacobLovesYou]

Would you take over/under 7 combined finishers from the 3 involved in the HIAC?

[mwat9050]

Would you take over/under 7 combined finishers from the 3 involved in the HIAC?

Thats a tough one. Id say the under at 6.

There are actually a few sites that are doing bets for WM. haha. Couldn't the people inside the WWE, that know the finishes, clean up by making bets?

[gocubsgo3822]

Thats a tough one. Id say the under at 6.

There are actually a few sites that are doing bets for WM. haha. Couldn't the people inside the WWE, that know the finishes, clean up by making bets?

Do we count the following as finishers
shoke slam from Undertaker as a finisher.
What about a last ride.
What about the Hells gate he got HHH to tap to last year?
What if taker gets tombstoned.
Or HHH gets pedigreed.

I am inclined to take the over. WAYYYYYYY over.

[gocubsgo3822]

It's crazy detailed, isnt it?

It is fucking insanely detailed. It was soooooo long...

Jacob PM me with your email if you want :)

[mwat9050]

Do we count the following as finishers
shoke slam from Undertaker as a finisher.
What about a last ride.
What about the Hells gate he got HHH to tap to last year?
What if taker gets tombstoned.
Or HHH gets pedigreed.

I am inclined to take the over. WAYYYYYYY over.


Yes, if all those count, then the over would hit. haha

[K3nTaKa0s]

LOL at the thought of Glacier becoming nWo.

[gocubsgo3822]

Yes, if all those count, then the over would hit. haha


Do you think they should count? I do...

If it si just tombstones, sweet chin musics, and pedigrees i would still take over.

But all of those are finishers.

[JacobLovesYou]

Do we count the following as finishers
shoke slam from Undertaker as a finisher.
What about a last ride.
What about the Hells gate he got HHH to tap to last year?
What if taker gets tombstoned.
Or HHH gets pedigreed.

I am inclined to take the over. WAYYYYYYY over.
I think Hells Gate happens for sure because of last years finish. I would consider them using the other finishers as counting. Plus there will be at least one sweet chin music, if not 2. Id say over too.

[gocubsgo3822]

Yea i would think for sure HHH frees himself from hells gate

[JacobLovesYou]

I set the over/under too low, what do you think it should be? I'm a far cry from Vegas.

[gocubsgo3822]

If all the moves i listed counts (all have finished a match at one point for one of the three) i would set it at 12.5

And i would consider the over.

Couple queestions:

Can HBK take a bump or two?
Is there rope breaks in HiAC? I forget

[mwat9050]

If all the moves i listed counts (all have finished a match at one point for one of the three) i would set it at 12.5

And i would consider the over.

Couple queestions:

Can HBK take a bump or two?
Is there rope breaks in HiAC? I forget

I don't remember either. Seems kinda of dumb to have a rope break in a hell in a cell tho. There pretty much should be no rules, but I'm sure they will figure out a way for HBK to get involved in that fashion.

[keithcoldroses]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/wrestling.jsp

[BotheDMBFan]

Would you take over/under 7 combined finishers from the 3 involved in the HIAC?

I'm going WAY over. I'm thinking closer to double that number.

[gocubsgo3822]

http://sports.bovada.lv/sports-betting/wrestling.jsp

i think you actually can get a good deal on a Orton, Cena, Taker parlay

[Speilmen230]

What do the numbers mean?

[Speilmen230]

During a new interview conducted for Marvel.com, WWE Champion CM Punk had the following to say when asked what his favorite WrestleMania match off all-time is:

"WrestleMania 13, right in my backyard of Chicago. Bret 'The Hitman' Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin. I can remember every punch thrown, every bodyslam and every submission move. It’s just one of those perfect matches that told a story. There’s just so many to choose from, but this match is the one that sticks out the most."

Very good choice sir.

[Speilmen230]

WrestleZone's top 10 Wrestlemania's of all time:

1. X-Seven
2. 14
3. 19
4. 3
5. X-8
6. 10
7. 8
8. 22
9. 21
10. 23

I really don't agree with the top 3. I feel like 14 isn't top 3 material. and top to bottom i would rather sit down and watch 19 from start to finish than 17 from start to finish. Mainly because i don't like the main event between Austin/Rock. I prefer their match at 19.

[crush0617]

Not sure if anyone has seen this but,

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2557690082179&set=o.180620458654079&type=1&theater


I grabbed this from fb.

[crush0617]

looks like the HITC is black.

[Speilmen230]

That is an awful idea for the people there live. They won't be able to see shit. Kind of glad i decided not to go now. I would be royally pissed if i couldn't see through the cell.

[Speilmen230]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0pGHphuiAI&feature=channel

:lol

[Speilmen230]

the more i look at it, i don't think that is HIAC. It has way too many lifting rigs on it, for it to be the cell. I think it is a lighting rig that has no seams in it. 360 degrees and 4 sided. beveled edges.

[YankeesDMB41]

lol yea i dont think thats the HIAC i just didnt want to say anything

[Speilmen230]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eFeaiE8Vlk

These are the type of things that make it really hard for me to dislike the guy. He just seems so kind and genuine when he is with the kids.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1ICeRlytE4&feature=endscreen&NR=1

[JacobLovesYou]

yeah i saw that on WZ the other day. to me it looks like the LED screens like the one DMB used in front of the stage for 08 tour, except for 4 sided.

[Rodey]

I would be all for a Punk v. Austin WM match, but only if Punk flips heel again.

[Speilmen230]

Punk could easily go heel. And the nice thing is unlike The Rock, Austin doesn't have a ridiculous schedule so he can be there more. And while Austin isn't a worldwide superstar like the Rock, He brings in a lot of old wrestling fans who grew up watching him. I have friends who have always said that when Austin comes back is when they will watch.

[CrashDMB237]

http://www.wzronline.com/wrestling-news/video-steve-austin-roasts-zakk-wylde.html

Awesome.

[Speilmen230]

:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

Austin uncensored is amazing!

[jackisback24]

can anyone stream the Hall of Fame live on Saturday?

[bartender_man]

I would be all for a Punk v. Austin WM match, but only if Punk flips heel again.

I'm all for it wether he goes heel or not. That match would be so much better than Rock-Cena. Really kind of that actually... We all know the outcome already.. I'm much more excited for the HIAC and Punk vs Jericho.

[jackisback24]

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/uploads/5/SunLifeWM28.jpg

[bartender_man]

http://pwtorch.com/artman2/uploads/5/SunLifeWM28.jpg

That looks badass.

[Speilmen230]

That looks badass.

did you not see this?

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/374048_2557690082179_1851826819_1607119_1226615041 _n.jpg

[jackisback24]

This is one topic that I'm surprised more websites aren't covering:

http://www.weather.com/weather/tenday/USFL0316

[Jadorsey34]

I love watching Florida weather. Its the same every day Sunny, Chance of Rain

[Speilmen230]

it says it is going to be 68 and clear at night. so assuming they are completely set up by saturday, then i have no reason to believe that they won't be ok.

[CrashDMB237]

I really hope Brodus opens up WrestleMania with a throwaway match. They can really put that character over the top with the attire and entrance he could pull off. Not that I think they will, I just wish they would.

[BotheDMBFan]

I wish they'd let him open with a Dance Competition.

[bartender_man]

I really hope Brodus opens up WrestleMania with a throwaway match. They can really put that character over the top with the attire and entrance he could pull off. Not that I think they will, I just wish they would.

Yeah that'd be a cool way to start, agreed

[jackisback24]

http://www.pwtorch.com/

Lita there.

[K3nTaKa0s]

A dance competition is what people want to see to open Wrestlemania? I guess I shouldn't be too surprised.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Actually.. Brodus Clay has no business being on PPV to begin with, especially WWE's biggest PPV of the year.

[dmbmuskie]

Funkasaurus>Anything in TNA

[K3nTaKa0s]

Funkasaurus>Anything in TNA

Not quite. But what do you know?

[K3nTaKa0s]

I think a lot of people know that TNA is the better product, but they just don't want to admit it.

[dmbmuskie]

TNA is shot in what appears to be a high school gym with a bunch of has beens and never weres. That's all anyone needs to know.

[jackisback24]

Lots of interesting stuff in today's update. Michelle McCool pregnant? Brock rumored to be coming. Terry Taylor in the 'E?

http://www.f4wonline.com/more/more-top-stories/118-daily-updates/24927-fri-update-tons-of-wrestlemania-newsmedia-former-diva-expecting-brock-lesnar-hhh-roh

[K3nTaKa0s]

TNA is shot in what appears to be a high school gym with a bunch of has beens and never weres. That's all anyone needs to know.

Right. Can't wait to see all of those up and coming young stars during Wrestlemania on Sunday.

[kingchrisII]

I can honestly say that I was more excited for bound for glory than i am for wrestlemania... jericho vs. punk will be amazing, but i cant even pretend to give a shit about anything else at wrestlemania this year.

[jackisback24]

I can honestly say that I was more excited for bound for glory than i am for wrestlemania... jericho vs. punk will be amazing, but i cant even pretend to give a shit about anything else at wrestlemania this year.
Hell in the Cell will be good.

Off topic, but wtf?:rattle

[kingchrisII]

Hell in the Cell will be good.

Off topic, but wtf?:rattle

I have no interest in seeing two has beens that cant go anymore. To each their own though.

[CrashDMB237]

Right. Can't wait to see all of those up and coming young stars during Wrestlemania on Sunday.

And this is where you turn into a joke. You want up and comers wrestling in the biggest wrestling event that has been a staple in the industry for the past 27 years? And if you call those guys in TNA up and comers then I don't know how you aren't satisfied with the WWE product.

And yeah, Brodus is definitely better than anything TNA has to offer.

[CrashDMB237]

I think a lot of people know that TNA is the better product, but they just don't want to admit it.

Oh wow how did I miss this one? This is a goddamn gem!

:lol:lol:lol

[Speilmen230]

I'm gonna win the lottery tonight so I promise to take all of you to wrestlemania next year. :)

[K3nTaKa0s]

And this is where you turn into a joke. You want up and comers wrestling in the biggest wrestling event that has been a staple in the industry for the past 27 years? And if you call those guys in TNA up and comers then I don't know how you aren't satisfied with the WWE product.

And yeah, Brodus is definitely better than anything TNA has to offer.

TNA is in a lot better position as far as young/fresh talent is concerned than WWE is. There's no doubt about that.

Roode/Storm/Aries/Crimson/Magnus. A strong nucleus right there.

So, WWE being scared that he'll injure somebody in the ring (which resulted in him being taken off of television) makes him better than anything TNA has to offer? That makes a lot of sense. If Brodus Clay is what WWE fans want to see, then I just don't think there's much hope left for "wrestling" fans.

[bartender_man]

Dave batista is in miami. If him and lesner appear, that would be epic!

[JRS1386]

Ziggler and Rhodes are better than 99% of TNA so I think the E is in better shape for young guns.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I don't have a problem with Ziggler, but Rhodes? Get out of here.

[comerelaxnow]

Too bad Del Rio is not at Mania this year. He will be inducting Mil Mascaras though in the HOF

[JRS1386]

I don't have a problem with Ziggler, but Rhodes? Get out of here.

Whats your beef with Rhodes?

[K3nTaKa0s]

Nothing more than average in the ring and on the mic. He's been around a while and I don't really think he's evolved any. Don't see the potential that others see.

[JRS1386]

I think ever since he turned from his Dashing gimmick he has been one of the better up and coming stars in the company

[comerelaxnow]

I think Rhodes has a very bright future

[CrashDMB237]

Ziggler and Rhodes are better than 99% of TNA so I think the E is in better shape for young guns.

This. And since when is wrestling all about the up and comers? You need established talent, which TNA has close to none of. It's not just about wrestling either, it's sports ENTERTAINMENT and Brodus is one of the most entertaining gimmicks I've seen since the 90s. Wasn't half of the 90s one big storyline revolving around gimmicks? Weren't BILLY GUNN and TAKA MICHINOKU main eventing in Raw some nights? The whole "entertainment" thing didn't seem to hurt anyone then.

[mwat9050]

TNA is in a lot better position as far as young/fresh talent is concerned than WWE is. There's no doubt about that.

Roode/Storm/Aries/Crimson/Magnus. A strong nucleus right there.

So, WWE being scared that he'll injure somebody in the ring (which resulted in him being taken off of television) makes him better than anything TNA has to offer? That makes a lot of sense. If Brodus Clay is what WWE fans want to see, then I just don't think there's much hope left for "wrestling" fans.


Storm and crimson are fucking brutal. If I'm bored, and put on TNA, James Storm and his cheese dick gimmick and awfulness make me change the channel. Aries is the shit, and Roode is pretty good too. But Crimson makes Jonh Cena look like Ricky Steamboat.

[K3nTaKa0s]

What's entertaining about a goofy-looking guy dancing? Maybe you should give up on WWE and start watching Dancing With the Stars.

"You need established talent, which TNA has close to none of."

Hahahahahahaha. Yeah, right. I'm seriously losing it over that one.

[dmbmuskie]

Someone is :rattle because WWE doesn't look like it's shot in someone's basement.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Storm and crimson are fucking brutal. If I'm bored, and put on TNA, James Storm and his cheese dick gimmick and awfulness make me change the channel. Aries is the shit, and Roode is pretty good too. But Crimson makes Jonh Cena look like Ricky Steamboat.

There's not many better than James Storm at cutting promos right now.

[Pablo23]

WM 28 Predictions:

Pre match TRIPLE THREAT TAG TEAM TITLES: Epico & Primo(c) vs. The Usos vs. Justin Gabriel & Tyson Kidd

World Title: Daniel Bryan(c) vs. Sheamus

IC Title: Cody Rhodes(c) vs. Big Show

Beth Phoenix & Eve vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos

Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy

Randy Orton vs. Kane

WWE Title: Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk(c)

Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Triple H w/Shawn Michaels as Special Referee

The Rock vs. John Cena

Winners in bold.

[Crush086]

That rattled emoticon is horrendous.

But it'd be badass to see Lesnar return.

[jackisback24]

apparently Brock may be involved with one of the big matches. Angles are hinted at. Brock in Mania main event next year? Could be announced on Raw.

[bartender_man]

apparently Brock may be involved with one of the big matches. Angles are hinted at. Brock in Mania main event next year? Could be announced on Raw.

Lesner hits main event match, F5 on Rock. Cena Wins. Rock vs Lesner next year Mania

[bartender_man]

Nothing more than average in the ring and on the mic. He's been around a while and I don't really think he's evolved any. Don't see the potential that others see.

Average in the ring? Fully disagree.. He's got a lot of talent I think.

[Doors Allan Coe]

What's entertaining about a goofy-looking guy dancing? Maybe you should give up on WWE and start watching Dancing With the Stars.

"You need established talent, which TNA has close to none of."

Hahahahahahaha. Yeah, right. I'm seriously losing it over that one.

The real question is...

Will Wrestlemania's gate beat all the TNA PPV gates from 2012 combined...?

What are they expecting at WM? 75,000?

The Impact Zone holds...1,400...add in some of the other venues...I think WWE still might have it...

[K3nTaKa0s]

*Yawn* WWE should be doing better numbers all across the board than TNA. *Yawn*

Let's come up with something original, boys and girls.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I just love how every single time I say something negative about WWE, it turns into WWE vs. TNA.

If I came on here and praised TNA the way that some people on here praise WWE, then I could understand.

[Doors Allan Coe]

*Yawn* WWE should be doing better numbers all across the board than TNA. *Yawn*

Let's come up with something original, boys and girls.

???

They are both businesses. They both are on TV. They both are on PPV. They both have tons of stars.

It's just crazy how the WWE literally outdraws all of TNAs PPVs combined on one night. You can downplay it, but that's what it's all about.

[bartender_man]

I just love how every single time I say something negative about WWE, it turns into WWE vs. TNA.

If I came on here and praised TNA the way that some people on here praise WWE, then I could understand.

LOL I have seen you praise the hell out of TNA on here before :lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

???

They are both businesses. They both are on TV. They both are on PPV. They both have tons of stars.

It's just crazy how the WWE literally outdraws all of TNAs PPVs combined on one night. You can downplay it, but that's what it's all about.

Why is it crazy? I'm sorry, but I don't see that as some amazing feat.

[dmbmuskie]

It's not at all amazing to get 75k people and and millions at home to spend money on a choreographed homoerotic soap opera.

[K3nTaKa0s]

LOL I have seen you praise the hell out of TNA on here before :lol

The difference is you don't see me on here praising Eric Young and ODB winning the Knockout tag titles, Garett Bischoff being on Pay Per View, etc.

[DirtyJersey]

Dude if TNA was a person you'd be on your knees blowing him as we speak. We get it, you like TNA and try to rip WWE every chance you get. You must be one of those guys that just goes against what everybody likes. We all have one of those friends. The classic naysayer.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Dude if TNA was a person you'd be on your knees blowing him as we speak. We get it, you like TNA and try to rip WWE every chance you get. You must be one of those guys that just goes against what everybody likes. We all have one of those friends. The classic naysayer.

Who the hell are you? lol.

[BotheDMBFan]

Brodus Clay jiggling >>>> TNA.

[DirtyJersey]

Who the hell are you? lol.

Brother Love

[bartender_man]

World Title: Daniel Bryan(c) vs. Sheamus

IC Title: Cody Rhodes(c) vs. Big Show

Beth Phoenix & Eve vs. Kelly Kelly & Maria Menounos

Team Johnny vs. Team Teddy

Randy Orton vs. Kane

WWE Title: Chris Jericho vs. CM Punk(c)

Hell in a Cell: The Undertaker vs. Triple H w/Shawn Michaels as Special Referee

The Rock vs. John Cena

[K3nTaKa0s]

Shemaus
Cody Rhodes
Kelly Kelly/Maria Menonos
Team Teddy
Randy Orton
CM Punk
The Undertaker
John Cena

[hbktonyb]

Sheamus
Rhodes
Kelly
Team Johnny
Orton
Jericho
Taker
Rock

[BotheDMBFan]

Sheamus
Rhodes
Menounos
Johnny
Orton
Punk
Taker
Cena

[Rodey]

Sheamus
Rhodes
Kelly & Menounos
Team Johnny
Orton
Jericho
Undertaker
Cena

[JacobLovesYou]

Sheamus
Cody Rhodes
Kelly Kelly/Manoufhfgdvous
Team Johnny
Randy Orton
CM Punk
Undertaker
John Cena

[JacobLovesYou]

My hopes for Punk/Y2J: Punk retains at WM, Jericho wins in Chicago at Extreme Rules, then there is a 60min Iron Man match as the rubber match at the next ppv and Punk wins.

An idea for Rock/Cena ending: Cena wins and Brock Lesnar comes out after the match and attacks Rock. Cena makes the save and Lesnar retreats up the ramp. Rock stares down Cena and finally shakes his hand. Ends Rock/Cena and sets up the potential feud with Brock for Rock. Of course, the two shaking hands after the save only goes over if they put on a great match that builds respect for Cena.

[Speilmen230]

Sheamus
Rhodes
Menounos
Johnny
Orton
Punk
Taker
Cena

I will echo these picks. Same for me.

[JacobLovesYou]

The card actually comes off as predictable, but I care about the show itself anyway.

[Speilmen230]

Well it is easy to see for the most part what is smart for business.

I really wish I didn't read the spoilers regarding Brock.

[hbktonyb]

Brock/Rock already happened. That can't be a match. Who gives a shit.

[jackisback24]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150661402201443.386897.7175346442&type=1

[jackisback24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=er4n-2c_nYM

[jackisback24]

Brock signed for 1 year apparently.

[hbktonyb]

I'm fine with him signing but I don't want then to waste Rock on him! It's gotta be Rock/Taker.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Brock v. Cena?

[JRS1386]

Rock vs Taker is dumb. If Taker has one more match I want it to be putting someone over. Doesn't have to be by a win, but by him saying the match was his hardest one to win during the streak and such

[Speilmen230]

this poster for Over The Limit is fantastic. I want it for my room.

http://indemand.com/shared/indemand/299204_lg.jpg

[Speilmen230]

Also the thought of Lesnar coming back full time just gets me all giddy inside. Brock/Cena Brock/Punk Brock/Orton Brock/Jericho Brock/HHH should all happen. And i believe that they could work in every single one of those leading up to WM next year which should be Brock/HHH. Career vs Career. And the main event should be Punk/Austin.

[jackisback24]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1d8fttW_PhU&feature=fvsr

[Speilmen230]

Love that video. Kanenites. :lol

[BotheDMBFan]

Lolkane.

[Speilmen230]

I just bought the ppv and it is 54.99 for anyone who is curious.

[clayj41]

I'm about to purchase my first WWE PPV since WrestleMania X-Seven.

[Speilmen230]

WWE is doing something right if they are getting people to buy PPV's who haven't bought in 11 years.

[dmbmuskie]

WWE is doing something right if they are getting people to buy PPV's who haven't bought in 11 years.

They should have probably got a few more young guys involved to show off to all of us tuning into relive our teenage years, but I think the numbers will be huge.

[Speilmen230]

WrestleMania 29


CM Punk vs Stone Cold

Career vs Career
Brock Lesnar vs HHH

WWE Championship
John Cena vs Randy Orton

World Heavyweight Championship
Cody Rhodes vs Dolph Ziggler