Pro Wrestling is FAKE!?!

[Speilmen230]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu42Ltbjmj0

pretty cool fan made Sting/Taker promo.

[kittensXLI]

From Wikipedia :

On February 7th on Raw, They both competed in a losing effort with Melina against Eve, Tamina and Gail Kim.On the 2/7/11 edition of Raw, Mr. McMahon hinted toward a special guest host at Wrestlemania. It has been confirmed by WWE sources that the Bella Twins have been chosen for this job.
No way that's true.

[Speilmen230]

From Wikipedia :


No way that's true.

jesus fuck, if this is true i am going to lose all hope for the future of the WWE.

[hbktonyb]

The Bella Twins? :lol

No way.

[hbktonyb]

Sources within TNA Wrestling believe that Steve "Steve" Borden is very close to reaching a new deal with the organization, reports f4wonline.com this morning.

His profile was removed from the company website last night.

As of the middle of last week, WWE officials had not contacted Borden regarding an appearance at WrestleMania XXVII.

-- TNA iMPACT! returns tonight to U.K. airwaves at 10 p.m. on Challenge TV. It is followed by TNA Xplosion at midnight.

-- WWE Hall of Famer Jimmy Hart has been added back to the TNA website's roster page. He has been removed from the page three times within the past three weeks.

[Speilmen230]

Sources within TNA Wrestling believe that Steve "Steve" Borden is very close to reaching a new deal with the organization, reports f4wonline.com this morning.

His profile was removed from the company website last night.

As of the middle of last week, WWE officials had not contacted Borden regarding an appearance at WrestleMania XXVII.

-- TNA iMPACT! returns tonight to U.K. airwaves at 10 p.m. on Challenge TV. It is followed by TNA Xplosion at midnight.

-- WWE Hall of Famer Jimmy Hart has been added back to the TNA website's roster page. He has been removed from the page three times within the past three weeks.

this is all so confusing. I would have loved it if those WWE sources had not heard anything because Vince personally contacted him and work extremely hard to keep the signing quiet.

[kittensXLI]

For all the Cena lovers out there : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOjmYApePVQ&feature=player_embedded

[hbktonyb]

I like rapping Cena.

[Speilmen230]

Rapping Cena was an entertaining gimmick, but it is hard to take him seriously when he is holding the WWE title.

[Speilmen230]

So with the current active roster in WWE, do you think they can put together are really solid interesting card for WM?

[comerelaxnow]

So with the current active roster in WWE, do you think they can put together are really solid interesting card for WM?

Del Rio is entertaining but can't believe he is main eventing WM. And the Miz too? I really hope something changes quick otherwise its going to be very disappointing.

[kittensXLI]

Rapping Cena was an entertaining gimmick, but it is hard to take him seriously when he is holding the WWE title.
Absolutely. I'd pay for either of the two cards I posted in here.

[Speilmen230]

i think that the Main events will be solid. I am really excited for Edge/Del Rio (if edge wins at EC, which i hope he does). And i think on Raw they will work something out to be really interesting. Could you imagine a CM Punk, Cena, Orton, Miz match for the WWE title?

I think the big thing is going to be the undercard. They need to have a really solid undercard to make this be interesting.

[kittensXLI]

I don't see how Del Rio doesn't win at WM.

[Speilmen230]

I don't see how Del Rio doesn't win at WM.

I really will be happy with the result with that match either way.

[Speilmen230]

i also dont see how edge loses at Elimination Chamber.

[kittensXLI]

The only way it makes sense for Del Rio to lose is if Miz is going to win. And even then it still won't make sense. I can't see both champions being heels, but regardless, Del Rio losing would bury him unnecessarily.

[Speilmen230]

IMO Both Del Rio AND Miz need to go over CLEAN at WM. Both guys need huge wins to cement themselves as legit champions who have big wins under their belt. Miz hasn't won a single match cleanly as champion and it would just be a great push for Del Rio to go over Edge cleanly. I know it is fun for Face's to win at WM, but that is what Undertaker is there for. You have him as your marquee face to put on a show stealing match with Wade Barrett.

It really doesn't take a genius to book a wrestling show. let the performers do their thing in the ring, talk with the boys about possible finishes, choose the one you think will go over the biggest, then book the winner that makes the most sense.


VINCE RUSSO I'M LOOKING AT YOU!

[hbktonyb]

I think they should both go over clean as well, but if Cena/Miz is the main event, no way Miz goes over.

WWE desperately needs an attraction for the event, and I'm not sure Stone Cold/Rock hosting Mania is enough...

[Speilmen230]

I think they should both go over clean as well, but if Cena/Miz is the main event, no way Miz goes over.

WWE desperately needs an attraction for the event, and I'm not sure Stone Cold/Rock hosting Mania is enough...

I agree to the majority of this. I think Miz HAS to go over Cena. He is just too young to be squashed at Mania by Cena and then be thrust into the rear-view of the Main Event scene like Sheamus and Swagger were.

If you attach The Rock's name to it i think it creates a bit more of a buzz for the event.

[K3nTaKa0s]

As I told you guys not too long ago.. The Miz is nothing more than a transitional champion.

[Speilmen230]

As I told you guys not too long ago.. The Miz is nothing more than a transitional champion.
Ah but the truth emerges! see below:

Speaking of ballwashing.. what do you think was going on in this thread when The Miz won the title? He'll be nothing more than a transitional champion. He won't be holding the title going out of the Royal Rumble.

ah but your prediction was incorrect. From what i can tell, he isn't going to lose to Lawler at Elimination Chamber, So he will indeed be in the Co-Main Event at Wrestlemania.

and by my calculations, on the day of Wrestlemania he will have been champion for 145 days. The last guy to have held the title for over 100 days was Triple H back in 2008. I do believe he is much more than a transitional champion.

[K3nTaKa0s]

How about Michael Cole completely burying Natalya last night? That's a great way to build up your best Diva.

[K3nTaKa0s]

ah but your prediction was incorrect. From what i can tell, he isn't going to lose to Lawler at Elimination Chamber, So he will indeed be in the Co-Main Event at Wrestlemania.



Either way, he's not a long term champion.

[Speilmen230]

Ah but the truth emerges! see below:



ah but your prediction was incorrect. From what i can tell, he isn't going to lose to Lawler at Elimination Chamber, So he will indeed be in the Co-Main Event at Wrestlemania.

and by my calculations, on the day of Wrestlemania he will have been champion for 145 days. The last guy to have held the title for over 100 days was Triple H back in 2008. I do believe he is much more than a transitional champion.

Either way, he's not a long term champion.

But if he does indeed hold the title until Mania he will have held the belt longer than anyone else since 2008.

So i don't see how that makes him a non-long term champion.

[Speilmen230]

How about Michael Cole completely burying Natalya last night? That's a great way to build up your best Diva.

i do believe that, that is his Gimmick. support the heels and bury the faces. He called Cena boring last night. He said that Cena comes out and does the same thing every week. How does that build up their biggest star? It is a gimmick.

[Timebomb07]

Wrestling is so fucking lame.

[K3nTaKa0s]

There's a huge difference between John Cena and Natalya. How can you even compare the two? The two instances you mention are very different.

Cole is down-right awful and brings absolutely nothing positive to the product.

[Speilmen230]

^^To Timebomb: Thank you for you wonderful insight. :thumbsup

:twak:twak

[Speilmen230]

There's a huge difference between John Cena and Natalya. How can you even compare the two? The two instances you mention are very different.

Cole is down-right awful and brings absolutely nothing positive to the product.

Because cole's gimmick is to rip on the faces. He does it with the US Champion Daniel Bryan, John Cena, Natayla, Jerry Lawler, & Orton.

It is what a heel commentator is supposed to do. And he gets a ton of heat for it. He is a great heel commentator. He obviously has taken notes from vince mcmahon, Bobby heenan, and 90's jerry lawler.

He is doing a great job. He is supposed to be annoying and get under your skin.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Michael Cole is suppose to be a play-by-play guy, yet he is terrible in doing so. He never tells you what's going on in a match. It's always, "Daniel Bryan is a geek," a half dozen times every match.

There's a difference between sticking up for heels and going out of your way to put yourself over instead of the talent in the ring. He buries/slanders wrestlers every week. Heenan or The Body never really did that. They didn't make the product/commentary suffer. I'm not saying that Cole needs to be exactly like them, but he has to find a comfort zone somewhere in the middle.

He should be putting wrestlers over, but unfortunately, he's making the product look worse than it really is.

[Speilmen230]

He is SUPPOSED to be doing that! It creates sympathy for the faces and makes you want to like them even more. Especially when your product is somewhat stale because it is limited by the PG element. He is supposed to give added heat to the heels. And he is supposed to be that ONE guy who doesn't wrestle who you desperately WANT to get into the ring and get his ass kicked.

[K3nTaKa0s]

No.. he's not helping anyone, honestly.

Who's getting additional heat because of Michael Cole?

[Speilmen230]

No.. he's not helping anyone, honestly.

Who's getting additional heat because of Michael Cole?

The Miz, Alex Riley, LayCool, Dolph & Vickie.

[kittensXLI]

:lol:lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

The Miz, Alex Riley, LayCool, Dolph & Vickie.

None of these answers are correct.

[Speilmen230]

None of these answers are correct.

really? you are genuinely going to say that when Micheal Cole introduces someone like the miz his heat doesn't get worse?

[K3nTaKa0s]

I'm saying that people would hate the Miz the same without Michael Cole. That's the same with everyone else you mentioned.

He sucks.

[comerelaxnow]

Michael Cole is FINALLY interesting. I can't believe more people are not enjoying him.

[Speilmen230]

I'm saying that people would hate the Miz the same without Michael Cole. That's the same with everyone else you mentioned.

He sucks.

that is your opinion and you are entitled to it but i sincerely disagree. He makes a great heel.

[Timebomb07]

^^To Timebomb: Thank you for you wonderful insight. :thumbsup

:twak:twak

hahah, no offense... I never got into it as a kid (and theres NO way I could watch it now) Its like a soap opera? its staged? fake? UFC and real fighting is better? I dunno, never appealed to me.

[Speilmen230]

hahah, no offense... I never got into it as a kid (and theres NO way I could watch it now) Its like a soap opera? its staged? fake? UFC and real fighting is better? I dunno, never appealed to me.

So are all non documentary movies and all non-'reality' tv shows. It is just a different form of theater IMO. And yes i consider it a form of theater. Ballet tells a story through dance, Opera through singing, Play's through acting and singing, Pro-Wrestling through highly choreographed wrestling moves and acting.

It is meant to entertain you. That is all it is. People who aren't fans don't understand what the appeal is, and i get that. It is a thing that most adult fans fall in love with it when they are kids and then they stay fans through their adult life. To me it is captivating and extremely entertaining. Also people don't realize what these guys put themselves through to do what they do in the ring. they are the actors and the stuntmen. so in essence, they are twice the performers that traditional Movie Stars are.

just my explanation on things.

[Timebomb07]

So are all non documentary movies and all non-'reality' tv shows. It is just a different form of theater IMO. And yes i consider it a form of theater. Ballet tells a story through dance, Opera through singing, Play's through acting and singing, Pro-Wrestling through highly choreographed wrestling moves and acting.

It is meant to entertain you. That is all it is. People who aren't fans don't understand what the appeal is, and i get that. It is a thing that most adult fans fall in love with it when they are kids and then they stay fans through their adult life. To me it is captivating and extremely entertaining. Also people don't realize what these guys put themselves through to do what they do in the ring. they are the actors and the stuntmen. so in essence, they are twice the performers that traditional Movie Stars are.

just my explanation on things.


all completely valid, for sure.

Just not my cup of tea and it definitely draws in a very different crowd of fans that I personally wouldn't like to be with. (not saying you're in that stereotype at all)

[Speilmen230]

all completely valid, for sure.

Just not my cup of tea and it definitely draws in a very different crowd of fans that I personally wouldn't like to be with. (not saying you're in that stereotype at all)

I completely agree the fans that it draws in are generally not extremely educated. That is a sweeping generalization but it is a pretty valid generalization. I don't ever feel exactly normal when i am at an event but i always have fun. The fans are extremely passionate, and love what they are watching.

I appreciate the fact that you agree with the reasoning that i stated and respectfully said that it is not your cup of tea.

I don't hardly ever get riled up about much, but when people start laughing and saying how lame and fake it is, then proceed to make fun of me for enjoying it i can get a little heated.

[Timebomb07]

I completely agree the fans that it draws in are generally not extremely educated. That is a sweeping generalization but it is a pretty valid generalization. I don't ever feel exactly normal when i am at an event but i always have fun. The fans are extremely passionate, and love what they are watching.

I appreciate the fact that you agree with the reasoning that i stated and respectfully said that it is not your cup of tea.

I don't hardly ever get riled up about much, but when people start laughing and saying how lame and fake it is, then proceed to make fun of me for enjoying it i can get a little heated.

Yeah, no way I'm gonna knock people for liking it, I just can't get into it at all and yeah I think its lame haha, but thats not a hit at the fans.

[Speilmen230]

Yeah, no way I'm gonna knock people for liking it, I just can't get into it at all and yeah I think its lame haha, but thats not a hit at the fans.

good deal. :thumbsup

[Speilmen230]

Jericho Apologizes For UFC Tweet, Flair To Undergo Surgery
by Nick Paglino
Feb 07, 2011

We reported over the weekend that former WWE star Chris Jericho posted the following on Twitter: “Ok guess I’m the only “old school pro wrestler” to say it…screw UFC fighters. U could NEVER do what me and my brothers do.”

Earlier today, Jericho posted the following follow-up Tweet: "Dear UFC fighters, My apologies...(gulp). #Drunkichostrikesagain"

F4WOnline.com is reporting that TNA star Ric Flair is set to undergo surgery this week to repair the torn rotator cuff he suffered during TNA's overseas event in Manchester, UK. Flair is expected to continue working his manager role on TV before he is cleared to return to the ring.

[AndySlash]

it definitely draws in a very different crowd of fans that I personally wouldn't like to be with. (not saying you're in that stereotype at all)

i'm a long time fan and even i'm embarrassed by the crowds wrestling can bring in. i'll never forget being at wrestlemania 22 and seeing a line wrapping around the building of people that i wouldn't want my (hypothetical) kids anywhere near.

that said, for every one of those types of fans i saw that you and i "personally wouldn't like to be with", there are 4-5 normal people who enjoy it too. point is, it's easy to look down on wrestling and its fans because, as with most things, it's the loudest and most annoying people that attract the most attention. look a little deeper and there may be something worth paying attention to.

[Rodey]

Micheal Cole is awesome. Is K3nTa really complaining about him?

[Speilmen230]

Micheal Cole is awesome. Is K3nTa really complaining about him?

yes. yes he is.

[gonz085]

If The Rock came back, I would definitely start watching this again. I know how that probably sounds.

[hbktonyb]

I have a lot of problems with WWE, but Miz and Michael Cole are not problems. They are huge pluses at this point.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Dave Meltzer has confirmed that Kevin Nash was indeed signed to a TNA contract and was granted his release on the Friday before Royal Rumble. Booker T agreed to come in to WWE as an announcer back in December. He was contacted by TNA in early January and had to turn them down. Lashley was also contacted but money was said to be an issue.


credit: www.gerweck.net

[kittensXLI]

Micheal Cole is awesome. Is K3nTa really complaining about him?
Are you surprised?

[jackisback24]

Packers at Smackdown. Jericho book good so far.

[jackisback24]

he's using hypnosis!

[AndySlash]

@ClayMatthews52: WWE Smackdown in GB. Check me out this Fri. 4 a possible guest appearance.

[Timebomb07]

@ClayMatthews52: WWE Smackdown in GB. Check me out this Fri. 4 a possible guest appearance.

Watch, Rodgers will be there too :BANG

[GrooGrux420]

Well it looks like we are getting Bragging Rights this year. I hate this PPV, because the gimmick sucks Mark Henry's sweaty black balls. Only gimmick that sucks more is Fatal 4 Way. But I could never miss a live PPV event.

[davidhamrick10]

Why? The Cobra is one of the most effective moves of all the times if executed properly. (If you were to do it in real life, you could actually knock a person out. If you hit it EXACTLY right, in the right spot.)
I couldn't resist making that edit!
i'm a long time fan and even i'm embarrassed by the crowds wrestling can bring in. i'll never forget being at wrestlemania 22 and seeing a line wrapping around the building of people that i wouldn't want my (hypothetical) kids anywhere near.

that said, for every one of those types of fans i saw that you and i "personally wouldn't like to be with", there are 4-5 normal people who enjoy it too. point is, it's easy to look down on wrestling and its fans because, as with most things, it's the loudest and most annoying people that attract the most attention. look a little deeper and there may be something worth paying attention to.
If you think that is bad, you should have seen the crowds of people that would come to the OVW events back when the E was still using it. I worked for a radio station in Louisville and we did promo stuff with them but there were some very unsavory cats that would show up.

[jackisback24]

Sun Life gets WM28.

[Speilmen230]

Watching TNA Impact from last thursday. Why do they let Steiner talk? He has always been a mess on the mic.

[Speilmen230]

Angle really needs to get the fuck out of TNA and get his ass over to WWE. He could have an awesome comeback, and have some great fresh feuds.

[justinandimcool]

So I watched the Royal Rumble, which is the first show I saw since Mania last year. I didn't recognize half the roster, and I had to research Alberto Del Rio on youtube when I saw that he was a favorite to win.

How are the feuds leading up to Mania shaping up so far?

Bad booking was the reason I stopped watching, but it looks like things have been shaping up the past year. Cena/NXT feud; Del Rio, CM Punk, Cole, and The Miz getting fresh heel heat; Orton and Edge FINALLY being over as faces; interesting stables...am I right as far as how the year has shaped up? And that's just from watching one pay per view :lol

[Speilmen230]

these backstage segments are really not good. They seem way to scripted.

[Speilmen230]

So I watched the Royal Rumble, which is the first show I saw since Mania last year. I didn't recognize half the roster, and I had to research Alberto Del Rio on youtube when I saw that he was a favorite to win.

How are the feuds leading up to Mania shaping up so far?

Bad booking was the reason I stopped watching, but it looks like things have been shaping up the past year. Cena/NXT feud; Del Rio, CM Punk, Cole, and The Miz getting fresh heel heat; Orton and Edge FINALLY being over as faces; interesting stables...am I right as far as how the year has shaped up? And that's just from watching one pay per view :lol

The feuds leading up to Mania currently are in a bit of disarray since only one match has been set up. They are building up Elimination Chamber right now. Then after that is when Mania season really gets going. Del Rio was honestly the best choice to win the RR. He gets a good amount of heat and he has really solid in ring skills to put on great matches.

[kittensXLI]

The WWE has a lot of potential. Great young talent developing and getting pushed too.

[BotheDMBFan]

Ah but the truth emerges! see below:



ah but your prediction was incorrect. From what i can tell, he isn't going to lose to Lawler at Elimination Chamber, So he will indeed be in the Co-Main Event at Wrestlemania.

and by my calculations, on the day of Wrestlemania he will have been champion for 145 days. The last guy to have held the title for over 100 days was Triple H back in 2008. I do believe he is much more than a transitional champion.

JBL had it for 9 months, and he was a transitional champion.

[Speilmen230]

Mr. Anderson needs to also get back in WWE. He has really honed his craft. He is good in the ring, and one of the best talkers in the business.

[jackisback24]

Mr. Anderson needs to also get back in WWE. He has really honed his craft. He is good in the ring, and one of the best talkers in the business.

He's Under Hypnosis!:p

[Crush086]

Watching TNA Impact from last thursday. Why do they let Steiner talk? He has always been a mess on the mic.
Steiner always brings the lulz with his mic time. I'm excited for his return, even if it's TNA (which I rarely remember is on).

[BotheDMBFan]

Mr. Anderson needs to also get back in WWE. He has really honed his craft. He is good in the ring, and one of the best talkers in the business.

I don't trust him, at all. Drug behavior usually repeats itself. He's almost def using roids now (why would he stop?), and if he got back into the E, I doubt he could control himself.

[K3nTaKa0s]

A Scott Steiner promo is usually a total trainwreck. But I love it!

[jackisback24]

put on Sportscenter now for Packers stuff with Clay Mathews. ESPN.

[Speilmen230]

WWE Officially Announces WrestleMania 28 Location
by Nick Paglino
Feb 09, 2011

During a WWE press conference this afternoon, it was officially announced that next year's WrestleMania 28 event will be held at the Sun Life Stadium in Miami, Florida. The event will take place on April 1st, 2012. WWE Stars John Cena, The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Mark Henry and Eve joined Vince McMahon and Miami Dade officials to make the announcement. Former Dolphins quarterback Dan Marino was also on hand for the press conference.

Never been a fan of outdoor Wrestlemania's but what can ya do. I won't be there anyway.

[Crush086]

April 1st. That's too prime for rumors and all sorts of crazy talk.

[Speilmen230]

its over a year away. :lol i won't be too worried about it even on the day.

[JacobLovesYou]

K3n is under hypnosis, michael cole is one of the best things on WWE right now. and sometime in the next 2 months he's going to be revealed as the GM of RAW and King Booker is going to join Jerry the King on the announce table. and michael cole doing his best vinnie mac impression in the ring will hopefully make RAW consistently watchable once again.

[hbktonyb]

So King Booker is going to be doing play by play?

Not gonna happen.

[jackisback24]

Lovin the Y2J book. And Brock's is in April with Heyman.

Spoiler



Sportscenter showed Claymaker running in and counting the 3 and Edge and Clay posed together. Clay was special ref running in from the back. Posed with Edge and his title.

[JacobLovesYou]

So King Booker is going to be doing play by play?

Not gonna happen.

so you think cole is going to stay ringside? everyone's saying booker is going to announce aren't they?

[Speilmen230]

K3n is under hypnosis, michael cole is one of the best things on WWE right now. and sometime in the next 2 months he's going to be revealed as the GM of RAW and King Booker is going to join Jerry the King on the announce table. and michael cole doing his best vinnie mac impression in the ring will hopefully make RAW consistently watchable once again.

I would like Cole as the GM. But i also think that instead of putting Booker at the table with King you put Matthews and Stryker at the table with King.

And to get matthews ready you put him at the table now to be the third guy and the mediator between King and Cole. Make Matthews a secondary Play by Play guy for when Cole goes on his rants.

EDIT: Or better yet keep Styker on Smackdown as the PBP guy with Booker as the Color guy (N/R no pun intended) and then you have your raw team Consist of Matthews, King, & Nash. That would be a really entertaining team in my book.

[hbktonyb]

Cole is basically the GM now. He is going to be the play by play guy for a long time.

[JacobLovesYou]

matthews, king & nash would be great. maybe booker could just be a mouthpiece for people and wrestle on rare occasions. his moves during the rumble showed he still has some serious athletic ability (at least in the short spurt he had) and wasn't stiff with unbendable knees like some old guys.

[JacobLovesYou]

Cole is basically the GM now. He is going to be the play by play guy for a long time.

they can't keep the mystery GM/laptop email thing going for too much longer can they? a year from now will it really still be going?

[Speilmen230]

matthews, king & nash would be great. maybe booker could just be a mouthpiece for people and wrestle on rare occasions. his moves during the rumble showed he still has some serious athletic ability (at least in the short spurt he had) and wasn't stiff with unbendable knees like some old guys.

nice little shot at Nash there.

[hbktonyb]

they can't keep the mystery GM/laptop email thing going for too much longer can they? a year from now will it really still be going?

I expect it to end this year, but I don't expect Cole to be GM because he has been GM for a year now.

[jackisback24]

WWE's financials to be released tomorrow and the numbers won't be good. D-Day = more inclined for Vince to sign Sting for Mania.

[Speilmen230]

WWE's financials to be released tomorrow and the numbers won't be good. D-Day = more inclined for Vince to sign Sting for Mania.

Personally i don't think that Sting is even on Vinces Radar. I think that this was a rumor that was started and gained a lot of steam after TNA didn't re-sign him. I think that a lot of people are being really optimistic thinking that Sting is on Vinces radar for signing. I know i was one of them, but i have been thinking more and personally unless Sting came to WWE wanting to do a WM Match then i don't think Vince has given him 1 ounce of thought.

[jackisback24]

Personally i don't think that Sting is even on Vinces Radar. I think that this was a rumor that was started and gained a lot of steam after TNA didn't re-sign him. I think that a lot of people are being really optimistic thinking that Sting is on Vinces radar for signing. I know i was one of them, but i have been thinking more and personally unless Sting came to WWE wanting to do a WM Match then i don't think Vince has given him 1 ounce of thought.

:loloh, I don't know about that. Watch how many posts in this thread tomorrow are about the bad news with WWE financials that Vince has to address, plus a top executive leaving (Donna Goldsmith). Vince needs to ante up the buyrates for Mania to make the stockholders happy.

[Speilmen230]

:loloh, I don't know about that. Watch how many posts in this thread tomorrow are about the bad news with WWE financials that Vince has to address, plus a top executive leaving (Donna Goldsmith). Vince needs to ante up the buyrates for Mania to make the stockholders happy.

Honestly i just see Vince going back to the well and throwing a lot of money at people like Rock & Austin to make appearances and put their names on the marquee.

IMO Sting/Taker has the potential to bring in the older fans to go ahead and buy the PPV or to head to a blast zone, but i don't think Rock or Austin being a special guest host is going to do it for him.

[Speilmen230]

BTW this thread has gotten a huge breath of new life after being moved into the Tailgate.

[BotheDMBFan]

Because people know that it exists again. Yay! :)

[Speilmen230]

Yes it is awesome.

So bo what are your thoughts on Sting being on Vince's radar?

[BotheDMBFan]

Yes it is awesome.

So bo what are your thoughts on Sting being on Vince's radar?

Vince is a business man, so clearly Sting is on his radar. I'd put the odds of it happening right now at 40%, only because of the mixed reports.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Some websites are referring to Booker T's announcing debut on Smackdown as pathetic. I didn't watch it, so I can't agree or disagree. Always liked Booker on the mic.

[Speilmen230]

Vince is a business man, so clearly Sting is on his radar. I'd put the odds of it happening right now at 40%, only because of the mixed reports.

i just see vince wanting to go with a true and tired method of Austin or Rock.

Sting is kind of a gamble. He has never been introduced to the WWE Audience, and he is an older guy too.

[BotheDMBFan]

Some websites are referring to Booker T's announcing debut on Smackdown as pathetic. I didn't watch it, so I can't agree or disagree. Always liked Booker on the mic.

It takes time to get the hang of doing stuff like that.

[Speilmen230]

It takes time to get the hang of doing stuff like that.

yes i agree. Booker always used to be in the announce booth as king booker and he was great. His voice is very unique so that is a bit difficult to adjust to but i think that he will fit in well.

[BotheDMBFan]

If Taz, who is half-retarded, can be decent at it; Bookerman should be great eventually.

[Speilmen230]

If Taz, who is half-retarded, can be decent at it; Bookerman should be great eventually.

I completely agree if taz can be a color guy then Booker can be.

[hbktonyb]

I agree with Jesse, Steve Austin hosting Mania will not pop a buy rate like a Sting/Taker match. Rock will get some extra buys, but not many as a guest host.

I think every wrestler not under contract is on Vince's radar, especially Sting. I would be willing to bet that it bothers Vince that Sting is an A list wrestler who never worked a day for his company.

[Speilmen230]

I agree with Jesse, Steve Austin hosting Mania will not pop a buy rate like a Sting/Taker match. Rock will get some extra buys, but not many as a guest host.

I think every wrestler not under contract is on Vince's radar, especially Sting. I would be willing to bet that it bothers Vince that Sting is an A list wrestler who never worked a day for his company.

The other thing you have to consider is that Sting is an extremely PG friendly character. He is dark but he isn't liike an Austin or Rock who flourished by being able to push the envelope with antics and language.

Sting is a great character that is able to adapt to any setting.

He would be a huge asset to add to this years mania but i have many doubts that he won't get signed.

[BotheDMBFan]

I should mention that I'm not a huge Sting fan. (Although I did love his match against Flair on the last EP of WCW)

[K3nTaKa0s]

While browsing Hulu in the Raw clips section, the video of the mystery figure for 2/21 is titled, "He's Coming Back." It would appear that they are referencing The Undertaker since Sting has never "been there", but we shall see.

Source: PWInsider

[BotheDMBFan]

While browsing Hulu in the Raw clips section, the video of the mystery figure for 2/21 is titled, "He's Coming Back." It would appear that they are referencing The Undertaker since Sting has never "been there", but we shall see.

Source: PWInsider

Could mean coming back to A-List wrestling...

[hbktonyb]

Yeah, I highly doubt Sting will be there. That's why I think they are making this guest host thing so big, with Vince making his first live appearance in a long time.
With The Undertaker scheduled to return to WWE television on the Monday, February 21st episode of WWE RAW (the night after Elimination Chamber), we've got an update on his health and what's being discussed for him for WrestleMania.

The planned Undertaker vs. Wade Barrett WrestleMania main event has been reportedly scrapped. This feud made sense as Wade Barrett was the leader of Nexus when the group destroyed the Undertaker and put him out of action at Survivor Series, but WWE now has a totally different direction for the Dead Man. While the specifics are not reliable enough at this point to report, we can say that WWE expects the Undertaker's WrestleMania angle to steal the show. WWE Hall of Famer Shawn Michaels is part of the proposed angle, but he will not be wrestling.

Two men who have been rumored to be The Undertaker's WrestleMania opponents, Brock Lesnar and Sting will, not be at WrestleMania.

To update the news of Sting possibly headed to WWE, we can report that there have still be no formal talks between the two parties as of last week. However, there is said to be interest on both sides and the chances of Sting working with WWE are greater now than they have been in years and likely will ever be.

The Undertaker has been doing a lot of rehab on his surgically repaired shoulder and WWE is very confident he'll be on track to compete at WrestleMania. While nobody is expecting a WrestleMania classic as in previous years, he should be able to work a good singles match.

[Speilmen230]

I should mention that I'm not a huge Sting fan. (Although I did love his match against Flair on the last EP of WCW)

i never watched WCW religiously as a kid like i did WWF, but i always thought that Sting & Goldberg were awesome. Since i have gotten older i have lost my affection for goldberg and gained even more affection and respect for what sting was able to do. He had tons of great matches with less than great workers.

While browsing Hulu in the Raw clips section, the video of the mystery figure for 2/21 is titled, "He's Coming Back." It would appear that they are referencing The Undertaker since Sting has never "been there", but we shall see.

Source: PWInsider

I figured that it was Taker after that second Promo they ran last week.

I think they might still pull sting out of their ass but i am not hopeful.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Could mean coming back to A-List wrestling...

Yeah. You're right. That's exactly what it means.

Good eye.

[BotheDMBFan]

Nash v Taker would be good, if Nash could physically handle it.

[BotheDMBFan]

Yeah. You're right. That's exactly what it means.

Good eye.

I was kidding, but frankly, is it that far off?

[hbktonyb]

Nash vs. Taker would be a complete mess. Nash cannot wrestle anymore.

I actually worry about Taker at Mania. He went against the best wrestler ever for the last 2 years, and Michaels made him look so freakin good. Don't get me wrong, I love Taker and know he will bring it, but nothing will live up to the HBK matches.

[BotheDMBFan]

i never watched WCW religiously as a kid like i did WWF, but i always thought that Sting & Goldberg were awesome. Since i have gotten older i have lost my affection for goldberg and gained even more affection and respect for what sting was able to do. He had tons of great matches with less than great workers.


Goldberg is cool to watch for one match.The spear, the jackhammer, awesome. However, good God that many cannot carry a feud to save his life. No one, and I mean fuck you, no one, is worse than Scott Steiner. Ever. Worst big time star in wrestling history, bar none.

[Speilmen230]

Yeah, I highly doubt Sting will be there. That's why I think they are making this guest host thing so big, with Vince making his first live appearance in a long time.
With The Undertaker scheduled to return to WWE television on the Monday, February 21st episode of WWE RAW (the night after Elimination Chamber), we've got an update on his health and what's being discussed for him for WrestleMania.

The planned Undertaker vs. Wade Barrett WrestleMania main event has been reportedly scrapped. This feud made sense as Wade Barrett was the leader of Nexus when the group destroyed the Undertaker and put him out of action at Survivor Series, but WWE now has a totally different direction for the Dead Man. While the specifics are not reliable enough at this point to report, we can say that WWE expects the Undertaker's WrestleMania angle to steal the show. WWE Hall of Famer Shawn Michaels is part of the proposed angle, but he will not be wrestling.

Two men who have been rumored to be The Undertaker's WrestleMania opponents, Brock Lesnar and Sting will, not be at WrestleMania.

To update the news of Sting possibly headed to WWE, we can report that there have still be no formal talks between the two parties as of last week. However, there is said to be interest on both sides and the chances of Sting working with WWE are greater now than they have been in years and likely will ever be.

The Undertaker has been doing a lot of rehab on his surgically repaired shoulder and WWE is very confident he'll be on track to compete at WrestleMania. While nobody is expecting a WrestleMania classic as in previous years, he should be able to work a good singles match.

Lots of good info there. that peaks my interest even more now that Barrett has been Scrapped and Sting is a confirmed no.

[K3nTaKa0s]

You guys really think Sting or Nash could carry Undertaker through an above average match? Get real.

[BotheDMBFan]

Nash vs. Taker would be a complete mess. Nash cannot wrestle anymore.

I actually worry about Taker at Mania. He went against the best wrestler ever for the last 2 years, and Michaels made him look so freakin good. Don't get me wrong, I love Taker and know he will bring it, but nothing will live up to the HBK matches.

Honestly, Taker gave just as much as HBK did for the first one. I've always preferred Taker to HBK (as I have many to HBK) but I will agree that in the second match, HBK did a fair bit of carrying. It's tough to really choose who Taker could take on that would be a good surprise. While I agree with Kane that the person who finally beats him at WM is the one who gets that zeitgeistial push. (Kane was slated to beat Taker at WM XX, but turned down this opportunity saying it should be for someone younger who needed it.) My dream of all dreams would be Dean Malenko coming back, but seeing as that will probably never happen, it's tough to pick a "legend" for Taker to face this year.

[Speilmen230]

You guys really think Sting or Nash could carry Undertaker through an above average match? Get real.

Carry? did you just say carry Taker?

Nobody carry's Taker through a good match. Did HBK make Taker look amazing in the last 2 years? absolutely. But that is also in part to Undertaker being one of the best workers in Wrestling history. He has lost his luster in the last few years but i do believe that his goal is to get to 20-0 at WM.

[BotheDMBFan]

Taker is the best big in wrestling history, with Vader in a close second.

[K3nTaKa0s]

HBK carried Taker through their last match at Wrestlemania.

Sting isn't going to be able to put on a top quality match with someone like Undertaker.

[Speilmen230]

HBK carried Taker through their last match at Wrestlemania.

Sting isn't going to be able to put on a top quality match with someone like Undertaker.

That is a flat out lie. HBK made taker look better, and only HBK could have done that, but if you would have put anyone else in there it still would have stole the show last year.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Saying that Michael Cole is a great play-by-play guy is a flat out lie.

Stole the show? Give me a fucking break.

[BotheDMBFan]

HBK carried Taker through their last match at Wrestlemania.

Sting isn't going to be able to put on a top quality match with someone like Undertaker.

It'd be a situation where the moment would be bigger than the match. Just like some of the most well-revered matches of all time. Hogan v Andre at WM 3 kinda sucked. Taker v Mankind in Hell in a Cell is fucking miserable. Rock v Austin at WM (all 3 of them, really) are very overrated. There are a lot of others I'm forgetting, but the point is that a moment can cover up something not being as good as when it happens. Except for Hart v McMahon, that was just sad.

[BotheDMBFan]

Saying that Michael Cole is a great play-by-play guy is a flat out lie.

Stole the show? Give me a fucking break.

He's not. He's a great heel though.

There wasn't much of a show to steal last year, honestly.

[Speilmen230]

Saying that Michael Cole is a great play-by-play guy is a flat out lie.

Stole the show? Give me a fucking break.

ugh... you are insufferable when it comes to anything positive about the 'E.

So are you saying that if HYPOTHETICALLY Angle were to leave TNA and go back to WWE, and he was going to be Taker's opponent at WM 28, that Angle would have to carry Undertaker to a good match?

[Speilmen230]

It'd be a situation where the moment would be bigger than the match. Just like some of the most well-revered matches of all time. Hogan v Andre at WM 3 kinda sucked. Taker v Mankind in Hell in a Cell is fucking miserable. Rock v Austin at WM (all 3 of them, really) are very overrated. There are a lot of others I'm forgetting, but the point is that a moment can cover up something not being as good as when it happens. Except for Hart v McMahon, that was just sad.

Austin/Rock WM 15 was just a brawl fest, nothing special, honestly kinda boring.

Austin/Rock WM 17 was completely ruined by the ending. I hated the double turn.

Austin/Rock WM 19 was a legitimately great match and a great way to send Austin off into the foreseeable wrestling sunset at the time.

[BotheDMBFan]

Austin/Rock WM 15 was just a brawl fest, nothing special, honestly kinda boring.

Austin/Rock WM 17 was completely ruined by the ending. I hated the double turn.

Austin/Rock WM 19 was a legitimately great match and a great way to send Austin off into the foreseeable wrestling sunset at the time.

19 wasn't all that amazing either. 15 was probably the best of the three, just because of everything that went into it emotionally.

[K3nTaKa0s]

ugh... you are insufferable when it comes to anything positive about the 'E.

So are you saying that if HYPOTHETICALLY Angle were to leave TNA and go back to WWE, and he was going to be Taker's opponent at WM 28, that Angle would have to carry Undertaker to a good match?

People watch Raw muted because of Michael Cole. I'm just not making things up just to piss people off on this thread. I swear.. he's flat out terrible. His "gimmick" is beyond forced.

Angle can carry anyone to a good match. Taker would have to show me a lot more than he has the last couple years if he wants to put on a 4-5 star match.

You guys really want to see Sting come in and get pinned clean by Undertaker at Wrestlemania? If Sting comes in (and I'm confident that he's not), he's not going to be a long-term feature. He's not going to beat the Undertaker.

[Speilmen230]

19 wasn't all that amazing either. 15 was probably the best of the three, just because of everything that went into it emotionally.

I do have to disagree, maybe i like WM 19 better because of everything that went into it involving austin being hospitalized the night before then going out there and doing what he did.

X-seven is my least favorite of the three.

[hbktonyb]

Taker is great for a big man, but HBK carried every single wrestler in every match he was in. I've never seen a "bad" HBK match.

[BotheDMBFan]

Taker is great for a big man, but HBK carried every single wrestler in every match he was in. I've never seen a "bad" HBK match.

Except for his matches with Bret, because Bret was kinda way better. There are others too, but his matches with Bret always seemed like Bret outclassed him.

His match with Angle was just as much Kurt as it was Shawn, too.

[BotheDMBFan]

People watch Raw muted because of Michael Cole. I'm just not making things up just to piss people off on this thread. I swear.. he's flat out terrible. His "gimmick" is beyond forced.

Angle can carry anyone to a good match. Taker would have to show me a lot more than he has the last couple years if he wants to put on a 4-5 star match.

You guys really want to see Sting come in and get pinned clean by Undertaker at Wrestlemania? If Sting comes in (and I'm confident that he's not), he's not going to be a long-term feature. He's not going to beat the Undertaker.

Who? Also, if they did, wouldn't that be a good thing. People loathe his character so much, they can't even hear it. That's the best heat since first time heel Hogan.

Taker is great.

Sting probably won't win. I don't exactly watch a lot of these matches to see who wins when it comes to events like this. I watch to see greatness, and Taker v Sting could provide that.

[Speilmen230]

People watch Raw muted because of Michael Cole. I'm just not making things up just to piss people off on this thread. I swear.. he's flat out terrible. His "gimmick" is beyond forced.

Angle can carry anyone to a good match. Taker would have to show me a lot more than he has the last couple years if he wants to put on a 4-5 star match.

You guys really want to see Sting come in and get pinned clean by Undertaker at Wrestlemania? If Sting comes in (and I'm confident that he's not), he's not going to be a long-term feature. He's not going to beat the Undertaker.
Cole is doing exactly what he should be doing, his gimmick is solid and he is drawing enormous amounts of heat. The only thing i disliked was him going over JR on Old School Raw. just because i am a huge JR Mark.

Undertaker is a guy who steps up his game every year at WM and he did just that at WM last year. It just happens to be that HBK is the best in ring performer to ever step foot in a wrestling ring. Of course he is going to outshine Undertaker. Especially when HBK is in better physical shape than Undertaker.

And i would never expect Sting to go over Undertaker, but i do think that Sting and Undertaker has the potential to be a 4 star match. Especially because the surreal atmosphere of seeing the two of the biggest stars of the 90's collide on the biggest stage in Wrestling.

[BotheDMBFan]

I forgot DDP's music used to rip off Smells Like Teen Spirit.

[BotheDMBFan]

Cole is doing exactly what he should be doing, his gimmick is solid and he is drawing enormous amounts of heat. The only thing i disliked was him going over JR on Old School Raw. just because i am a huge JR Mark.

Undertaker is a guy who steps up his game every year at WM and he did just that at WM last year. It just happens to be that HBK is the best in ring performer to ever step foot in a wrestling ring. Of course he is going to outshine Undertaker. Especially when HBK is in better physical shape than Undertaker.

And i would never expect Sting to go over Undertaker, but i do think that Sting and Undertaker has the potential to be a 4 star match. Especially because the surreal atmosphere of seeing the two of the biggest stars of the 90's collide on the biggest stage in Wrestling.

Given how much time they'd have to work with each other, it COULD be a 5 star match, but would probably be a respectable 4 at least. The last 5 star match at WM was Brock v Angle. (Or would have been, had Brock jumped right.)

[Speilmen230]

Given how much time they'd have to work with each other, it COULD be a 5 star match, but would probably be a respectable 4 at least. The last 5 star match at WM was Brock v Angle. (Or would have been, had Brock jumped right.)

I have to disagree with Angle/Brock being the last 5 star match. Gotta go with Angle/HBK. That match is arguably one of the best Wrestlemania matches of all time.

[Crush086]

Cole is mostly annoying nowadays. It was cool when he slightly ballwashed Miz, but trying to rally the crowd to chant Milwaukee was weird.

I'm a huge fan of Sting though, so regardless of whether he moves to WWE (and is potentially wasted as hype for WM) or TNA, I'll watch said brand more.

[BotheDMBFan]

I have to disagree with Angle/Brock being the last 5 star match. Gotta go with Angle/HBK. That match is arguably one of the best Wrestlemania matches of all time.

Kurt Angle has never won a WM title match ever. Jesus Christ.

[Speilmen230]

HBK vs Kurt Angle is one of the best WM matches of all time.

It is on youtube if anyone wants to watch.

[kittensXLI]

How is Sting one of TNA's best workers, but once he's not under contract, and RUMORED regardless of how much or little chance there is to go to the 'E people speculate, he suddenly can't have a good match with Undertaker? Give me a break.

I'd love to know who, besides Kenta, watches Raw on mute.

[Speilmen230]

How is Sting one of TNA's best workers, but once he's not under contract, and RUMORED regardless of how much or little chance there is to go to the 'E people speculate, he suddenly can't have a good match with Undertaker? Give me a break.

I'd love to know who, besides Kenta, watches Raw on mute.

ah my favorite voice of reason. :thumbsup

[K3nTaKa0s]

I'd love to know who, besides Kenta, watches Raw on mute.

I've read it more than once on more than one website. Hell, I don't even watch Raw on mute. But if things continue to play out like they have been, doing so might be a good idea.

[kittensXLI]

It's 2011. Sting/Undertaker doesn't have to be a technical masterpiece. Heck, the crowds cheer Santino Marella more than most WWE and TNA workers combined. The majority of the live crowd doesn't care about masterful in-ring work or microphone abilities. I'm not going to talk on the internet about [defend] someone like Morrison or Del Rio because they "don't draw enough heat" when in reality they are fantastic workers in multiple areas.

EDIT - TNA tried to a lesser extent pull a Cole situation with TNA a few months ago and it both bombed and lacked direction. I'd be hard pressed to imagine the reaction it'd get from some people on here if the roles were reversed. Cole isn't "burying" Danielson or Natalya every week. He's doing what heel non-wrestling personalities are meant to do.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Yeah.. it's 2011 and you still don't have a clue. What a surprise. I never said it has to be a technical masterpiece, but there's a lot of people that seem to think it will be. It won't.

"Heck, the crowds cheer Santino Marella more than most WWE and TNA workers combined." -- What does that tell you?

"The majority of the live crowd doesn't care about masterful in-ring work or microphone abilities." -- Understandable, considering how bad it's been.

You once again bring up TNA. This time, I don't know what you're talking about, as I'm not sure what you mean by TNA trying to pull a Cole situation.

And yes, Cole is burying wrestlers. Cole is not a heel manager, nor is he an on-screen authority figure (sans reading from a laptop). He is a play-by-play guy.

[kittensXLI]

Again, Sting was one of the top workers with TNA. Having a match with Undertaker at WM that doesn't meet your outrageous standards doesn't mean you get to piss on everyone else's parade.

I explained in my original post what crowds cheering for Santino means. If you want to turn it around as some sort of dig on the 'E and that supposedly can't get their "talent" over while someone such as a comedic worker gets attention, so be it. He's dominating in that aspect compared to every TNA worker not named Kurt Angle.

:lol:lol Keep telling yourself people don't care because of "bad" talent. People don't care because the target audience is children. Children who wouldn't know a technical classic or promo gold to save their lives.

If you think Cole is simply a play-by-play guy, you really are more naive than any of us thought. I bring up TNA because they tried giving their own pbp guy an angle or personality, and it failed for multiple reasons, including talent and booking/direction. The 'E does something better than TNA, and you crap all over it.

[kittensXLI]

I guess you could compare Sting/Taker (the entire wrestling world) to Flair/Foley (Kenta + Impact Zone marks), only Sting/Taker still has the talent and interest left.

[kittensXLI]

No offence.

[Evans]

Are you guys planning on picking up WWE All-Stars at the end of March? Looks like an awesome roster consisting of legends and modern day wrestlers, all set in an environment reminiscent of the better arcade wrestling games of the late 90s. Hogan, Warrior, Macho Man, Ricky Steamboat, Andre, and so much more. New wrestlers being added to the roster every week or so.

http://www.wweallstars.com/

[hbktonyb]

Except for his matches with Bret, because Bret was kinda way better. There are others too, but his matches with Bret always seemed like Bret outclassed him.

His match with Angle was just as much Kurt as it was Shawn, too.

I agree with you on Angle, that was one of the best matches I've ever seen.

Bret was great, but I think HBK was a lot better in their matches. He def. didn't carry Bret, but I judge it on how the wrestler looks vs. HBK versus how they look against another opponent, and Bret was never as good as he was against HBK.

Angle, on the other hand, is up there with Michaels.

[BotheDMBFan]

I agree with you on Angle, that was one of the best matches I've ever seen.

Bret was great, but I think HBK was a lot better in their matches. He def. didn't carry Bret, but I judge it on how the wrestler looks vs. HBK versus how they look against another opponent, and Bret was never as good as he was against HBK.

Angle, on the other hand, is up there with Michaels.

Bret's best match was with Austin, IMO. Shawn's best match was with Bret. Rock's best match was with Hurricane.

[hbktonyb]

I think Michaels' best matches were against Angle, Taker #1 at Mania, and the original ladder match against Razor Hall.

Rock's best match was Hogan.

[JacobLovesYou]

Are you guys planning on picking up WWE All-Stars at the end of March? Looks like an awesome roster consisting of legends and modern day wrestlers, all set in an environment reminiscent of the better arcade wrestling games of the late 90s. Hogan, Warrior, Macho Man, Ricky Steamboat, Andre, and so much more. New wrestlers being added to the roster every week or so.

http://www.wweallstars.com/

ha that's pretty sweet. it's like the NFL Street of Wrestling games

[Doors Allan Coe]

I agree with you on Angle, that was one of the best matches I've ever seen.

Bret was great, but I think HBK was a lot better in their matches. He def. didn't carry Bret, but I judge it on how the wrestler looks vs. HBK versus how they look against another opponent, and Bret was never as good as he was against HBK.

Angle, on the other hand, is up there with Michaels.

Are you kidding?

Bret Hart is seriously one of the best wrestlers in history. His best matches weren't against HBK. Mr. Perfect, Austin, Roddy Piper, and others easily had some of the best matches in history against Bret Hart.

HBK is great. But, don't fool yourself into thinking he upped Brets game. Bret paved the way for guys like HBK.

Honestly, Bret had put on some of the best matches in WWF/E history. That is without breaking tables, jumping off ladder, or pointing to his dick during his ring entrance. He flat out was an absolutely amazing wrestler.

Perfect, Austin, Piper, Davey Boy, and others all shined when wrestling Bret. Don't forget the fact he also gave Yokozuna his best match. That takes talent.

[kittensXLI]

HBK, Angle, and Y2J matches pretty much > matches with anyone else not them. The Rock's best match was probably against Mankind or H, though. Or Jericho obvi.

[kittensXLI]

Are you kidding?

Bret Hart is seriously one of the best wrestlers in history. His best matches weren't against HBK. Mr. Perfect, Austin, Roddy Piper, and others easily had some of the best matches in history against Bret Hart.

HBK is great. But, don't fool yourself into thinking he upped Brets game. Bret paved the way for guys like HBK.

Honestly, Bret had put on some of the best matches in WWF/E history. That is without breaking tables, jumping off ladder, or pointing to his dick during his ring entrance. He flat out was an absolutely amazing wrestler.

Perfect, Austin, Piper, Davey Boy, and others all shined when wrestling Bret. Don't forget the fact he also gave Yokozuna his best match. That takes talent.
Hennig, Owen, and Bulldog are some of the best in-ring workers I've ever seen. Ever.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Hennig, Owen, and Bulldog are some of the best in-ring workers I've ever seen. Ever.

Exactly. Yet they all shined against Bret. It's crazy but Bret brought out the best in almost all his opponents.

Perfect, Owen, Austin, Bulldog, and Piper...

Seriously some of my favorite matches off all time feature Bret.

Bret v. Perfect - Summer Slam '91
Bret v. Piper - Wrestlemania 8
Bret v. Bulldog - Summer Slam '92 and the bloody beat down from some In Your House in the mid 90's.

Plus, Wrestling with Shadows, whether it's a work or not is a great documentary.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I guess you could compare Sting/Taker (the entire wrestling world) to Flair/Foley (Kenta + Impact Zone marks), only Sting/Taker still has the talent and interest left.

Who made a big deal out of Flair/Foley and was calling it a possible five-star spectacle? Yeah. Good luck finding that.

You try to talk shit on TNA, but no one of your points make any sense. You make fun of the Impact Zone, then you try to use it as an indictator as to who is over (or not over) in TNA.

TNA tried to give Mike Tenay an angle/personality? You're talking about one or two segments a week that lasted 2 weeks? You're kidding, right? You're trying to compare that to the shit that WWE is trying to pull with Michael Cole? Give me a break.

Just because WWE's target audience is kids, doesn't mean it has to be a total joke. Kids were the target audience back in the day and the product sure as hell didn't suffer as bad as it does now.

Yeah.. you're right. No one cares how bad the product is. Maybe you should take a look at the latest financial report.

As I told you guys before.. no one would give a shit about WWE. No one bought the fucking PPVs. They're not selling out Raw and Smackdown every week.

So while Santino may be over as a "comedy act," no one's buying tickets or Pay Per Views to see him do the air trombone.

What it comes down to is drawing money and the WWE just isn't bringing in as much as they could.

You just keep on praising that WWE product.

[Speilmen230]

Who made a big deal out of Flair/Foley and was calling it a possible five-star spectacle? Yeah. Good luck finding that.

You try to talk shit on TNA, but no one of your points make any sense. You make fun of the Impact Zone, then you try to use it as an indictator as to who is over (or not over) in TNA.

TNA tried to give Mike Tenay an angle/personality? You're talking about one or two segments a week that lasted 2 weeks? You're kidding, right? You're trying to compare that to the shit that WWE is trying to pull with Michael Cole? Give me a break.

Just because WWE's target audience is kids, doesn't mean it has to be a total joke. Kids were the target audience back in the day and the product sure as hell didn't suffer as bad as it does now.

Yeah.. you're right. No one cares how bad the product is. Maybe you should take a look at the latest financial report.

As I told you guys before.. no one would give a shit about WWE. No one bought the fucking PPVs. They're not selling out Raw and Smackdown every week.

So while Santino may be over as a "comedy act," no one's buying tickets or Pay Per Views to see him do the air trombone.

What it comes down to is drawing money and the WWE just isn't bringing in as much as they could.

You just keep on praising that WWE product.

If i may interject, i have never seen Kittens 'Praise' the 'E's product. He has given them Kudos on certain angels and personalities throughout the 'E. But he has also been very critical of both products like most of us on here. But it seems that you have the biggest blinders on regarding the current state of the Wrestling business. just an observation i have noticed.

[Speilmen230]

Awesome column here by an anonymous 20 year vet of the business. he lists all his credentials. He says there are more to come.

Spoiler because of the length of the column.

BREAKING: Anonymous Wrestler Shoots On The Business
by Chris Cash
Feb 10, 2011

The following column was sent in by someone claiming to be a professional wrestler. He goes by the name Bill W and wishes to remain anonymous. Bill claims the following column is the first of many and that apparently there's much more to come. WrestleZone is posting the article because 1) it's a good read and 2) some of the things mentioned have been confirmed and it seems legit. Judge for yourself and let us know what you think.

A NEW MOVEMENT STARTS IN PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
By: Bill W, TheAnonymousWrestler@yahoo.com

Hi, my name is Bill W and I'm an addict. I'm addicted to the professional wrestling industry.

No, my name is not really Bill W, but I choose it as my nom de plume because I wish to remain anonymous. Bill W was one of the founders of Alcoholics Anonymous and I figure it's appropriate considering all of the friends in wrestling I've lost due to drug and alcohol addiction. I've been addicted to and part of the pro wrestling industry all of my life. I've been a wrestler for over 20 years. I've worked on or near the top of the card for every promotion I've worked for. WWE/WWF, WCW, TNA. I've main evented Madison Square Garden. I've worked big matches at WrestleMania and every other major WWE/WWF PPV. I choose to remain anonymous, just because I want to. I'm not afraid to write any of this under my own name - I just dont want to. If you read my column, you will understand that I'm the real deal. So don't bother trying to figure out my true identity, as I will never reveal myself to you. Just know I will never bullshit you. My only agenda is the truth and trying to enlighten you to things about my industry that very few people can do better than me. I hope you all find my columns insightful as this is only the beginning. This is a new movement in wrestling and there are much bigger things to come. Get ready.

Before I go any further, I would like to congratulate The Road Warriors on their coming induction into the WWE Hall of Fame. It hasn't been announced yet and very few people know. Both Joe & Mike were great to work with and in my opinion, they are the greatest tag team in the history of wrestling. Mike Hegstrand is one of the greatest guys I've ever known in or out of wrestling. A real man's man. Never took shit from anyone, but would give you his last dime at the same time. I miss you very much Mike. I look forward to seeing Joe accept the induction and really hope Paul Ellering is there as well.

I will definitely be watching the Hall of Fame for this and to see the induction of probably the greatest in ring performer of all time, Shawn Michaels. I've read rumblings about the entire Clique of Shawn, HHH, Nash, Hall, and Waltman being a part of the Hall of Fame. I wouldn't hold my breath for that to happen. I know Kevin Nash will be there for sure, but I know 1st hand that Vince was sour on the idea of Hall being there. And probably Waltman as well. They are worried about Scott showing up to the ceremony and causing a scene. As far as Waltman goes, I can think of a list of reasons they may not want to have him there, considering the PG direction the company has moved towards in the past few years.

Random thoughts on current topics:

There's been a lot of talk in the industry about Rey Mysterio's future with WWE. The last time I talked to Rey, he was really feeling the effects of all the years of working the type of style he does. He expressed a lot of frustration with the company and at the time we talked, he was seriously entertaining an offer from AAA in Mexico. Anyone who knows Vince will tell you that Rey does not fit his image of a main eventer. However, numbers dont lie and Rey's merchandise sales alone, in my opinion, tell Vince that his image of a main eventer does not always represent the "WWE Universe's" image of what makes a top guy. Rey played hardball in his last negotiations and we're not seeing him on any AAA Galavison shows, so I wonder who got what they wanted when that deal was finally ironed out. Obviously the WWE isn't counting on Rey being around much longer as they have really concentrated on pushing Del Rio lately.

Alberto Del Rio (Dos Caras Jr) has all of the tools, but I find his in ring work to be lacking any explosiveness & intensity. I know Del Rio and have known his father for 20 years. I've had the pleasure of working with his father (Dos Caras) who was fantastic and a 1st class guy.

I wonder how Rey feels about the fact that WWE signed Mystico. First of all, WWE already has the original Mystico down at FCW in Tampa working as Unico, who I know for a fact is about to be brought up to one of the main rosters. I wonder if they will change Mystico's name. Obviously they weren't worried about capitalizing on Del Rio's heritage in Mexico, so my money is on them changing his name. The thing about Mystico is that I dont know if he will be able to adjust to the difference in style. I've never been a big fan of his anyway, to be honest. He's going to be in FCW for quite a while trying to lose some of those awful habits in the ring that come with working that lucha libre style.

Also, does anyone else not think that Mystico is a direct rip off of Rey's gimmick anyway?

I was less than impressed with this year's actual Rumble match. Ive been in several Royal Rumble matches and they are formula matches that are not that hard to put together. Just not a very good Rumble in my opinion.

I know this isn't that current of a topic anymore, but after seeing the whole interaction between Taker and Lesnar after Brock's fight - that he ended up losing badly - I will bet my life they planned to shoot the angle after the fight because everyone stupidly assumed Brock would win. The guy started interviewing Taker, Brock just walked by and Taker actually said to him "You want to do this?" or something like that. Obviously Brock wasnt feeling it after getting beat down in such brutal fashion. Ive known Taker forever and I've known Brock since he signed a developmental deal right out of college. I've teamed with Brock and worked many a match with Taker. There is no legit heat between them and that was definitely them trying to shoot an angle. Taker vs Brock at Mania would obviously be huge. Not happening now though. I feel bad for Taker as I don't see a whole lot of options of big time opponents for him to face at this year's WrestleMania. Wade Barrett is just fine as an opponent for Taker, but I don't think it's much of a way to follow last years WM match. Then again, how do you follow last years match he had with Shawn Michaels?

I don't even want to get started on TNA right now, but I will. They do that terrible angle with Abyss coming out with a ball bat with spikes stuck in his upper back. That was a terrible idea and whoever wrote it should be fired.

Sad to see Flair acting like a child over in Europe and no showing an event over there recently, reportedly over the fact that the agent on duty wouldn't give Ric a draw (spending money that is deducted from your check). While I think it's stupid not to give the guys a draw on the road - I had an issue with TNA over the exact same thing - you don't pitch a fit and refuse to get on the bus. If you act like that and no-show an event, then you don't deverve to be treated like the legend you are. I know you "can" do it, but it doesn't mean you should Ric. And please, quit wrestling! My God, have you looked in the mirror lately? You haven't much hair left at all and your body looks like meat on a hanger. Other than that, I love you Ric. You're the man. I've had some great matches with Ric and it was definitely an honor.

How retarded must TNA feel right now after their big angle went to hell with the appearances of Nash & Booker T at the Rumble? No one in that company really feels loyal to them (TNA). They probably would if they weren't paid like shit and treated the same.

I'm done for now, but I'll be back. You can count on it.

Email me at TheAnonymousWrestler@yahoo.com.

Bill W - The Anonymous Wrestling Addict

tons of headlines on Wrestlezone today. I'm gonna try and post the major ones and the links to the less important ones.

[hbktonyb]

Are you kidding?

Bret Hart is seriously one of the best wrestlers in history. His best matches weren't against HBK. Mr. Perfect, Austin, Roddy Piper, and others easily had some of the best matches in history against Bret Hart.

HBK is great. But, don't fool yourself into thinking he upped Brets game. Bret paved the way for guys like HBK.

Honestly, Bret had put on some of the best matches in WWF/E history. That is without breaking tables, jumping off ladder, or pointing to his dick during his ring entrance. He flat out was an absolutely amazing wrestler.

Perfect, Austin, Piper, Davey Boy, and others all shined when wrestling Bret. Don't forget the fact he also gave Yokozuna his best match. That takes talent.

It is comical to think that Mr. Perfect, Austin and Roddy Piper had better matches than HBK.

HBK ALWAYS upped Bret's game.

I'm not even going to comment on the Yokozuna or British Bulldog comment. Nobody could save the 2 of them.

[Speilmen230]

WWE Releases Fourth Quarter Earnings Report
by Matt Boone
Feb 10, 2011

WWE released their fourth quarter earnings report earlier today, February 10, 2011.

Revenues totaled $122.5 million, up from the $117.3 million mark for the same quarter in 2009.

Operating income was $14.4 million compared to $17.8 million the prior quarter year.

Net income was $8.1 million (or $0.11 per share) as compared to $11.2 million ($0.15 per share) from the prior quarter year.

Vince McMahon Comments On WWE Fourth Quarter Earnings
by Matt Boone
Feb 10, 2011

The following are comments from Vince McMahon on today's WWE fourth quarter earning reports, which are up on the newsboard right now.

"In 2010, WWE achieved record operating performance, generating the highest level of reported EBITDA in the Company’s history despite a challenging environment, particularly over the latter part of the year. Difficult trends continued in the fourth quarter and were exacerbated by the performance of Home Video."

McMahon continued, "For the quarter and the full year, our businesses exhibited three major areas of strength: increased value from our television content, significant growth from our new toy licensing partnership with Mattel, and continued financial discipline. These strengths served to mitigate the impact of a weak economy, changes in our talent base, and unfavorable industry trends in home video."

McMahon concluded, "We remain confident that we can address our talent related challenges, expand both our content and distribution and, leveraging our strengths, drive meaningful growth."

[hbktonyb]

Failed to mention the 23% drop in PPV buys. That is alarming. WWE needs stars, and fast.

[K3nTaKa0s]

But it seems that you have the biggest blinders on regarding the current state of the Wrestling business. just an observation i have noticed.

Well, isn't that a shame? Someone likes TNA more than they like WWE. I mean, my God. I guess it's a crime. It's like being a fan of the Clippers, rather than the Lakers.

I guess it's stupid of me to expect a little bit more from the "best wrestling company in the world." Shame on me.

[Speilmen230]

Official WWE PPV Buyrates: Most Shows Down From 2009
by Matt Boone
Feb 10, 2011

The following are WWE PPV buyrates from late-2004. Official numbers were released today in the WWE fourth quarter earnings report for 2010:

October's WWE "Hell In A Cell" pay-per view did 210,000 buys, down from the 283,000 buys the same event did in 2009.

October's WWE "Bragging Rights" pay-per view did 137,000 buys, down from the 181,000 buys the same event did in 2009.

November's WWE "Survivor Series" pay-per view did 244,000 buys, up from the 235,000 buys the same event did in 2009.

December's WWE "TLC" pay-per view did 195,000 buys, down from the 228,000 buys the same event did in 2009.

Nash On WWE Future, Kliq Reunion At WM27, Hall's Condition
by Matt Boone
Feb 10, 2011

The following are highlights from a new interview with Kevin Nash:

On his future in WWE and first post-Royal Rumble project with WWE: "I mean, your guess is as good as mine as far as if I'm actively going to wrestle. I know I've got some stuff I'm doing with THQ this week for the video games. I just play it day by day."

On his response to Dixie Carter's comments about him being under TNA contract prior to signing with WWE, and the moment he knew he no longer wanted to return to TNA: "I mean, your guess is as good as mine as far as if I'm actively going to wrestle. I know I've got some stuff I'm doing with THQ this week for the video games. I just play it day by day."

On chances of a Kliq reunion at WrestleMania 27 or being part of WrestleMania weekend in Atlanta: I talked to Sean (Waltman), and I'm sure he will be there. Scott's (Hall) kind of the wild card of it. Of course Paul (Triple H) will induct Shawn, and I will be there. I guess Scott is the wild card. The last time I talked to him, he was thinking about going back into a rehabilitation center, so I don't if he is going to be available to be there that weekend or not."

[Speilmen230]

Bischoff On "They", Main Event Mafia Return?, Sting's Future
by Matt Boone
Feb 10, 2011

The following are interview highlights with Eric Bischoff:

What he credits for the recent success in the ratings of TNA iMPACT over the last several weeks and what's needed to stay at that level of where they are now: "I don't think there's any one thing in success & failure. It's always a combination of several things. I think one of the things we are doing that is resonating with the audience in integrating more reality into our stories whenever we can. Keeping an edge on our stories & characters, more so than we have done in the past. Where we are in our storylines really started back in October at Bound for Glory, and it's continuing now where we are today and where we are leading up to on March 3rd."

His opinion on the new direction of the "They" storyline: "I think 'Plan B' (the Fortune split from Immortal) was well-received. It caught everyone by surprise when everyone came to TV, because we didn't call everyone and give a heads-up in advance and because we like to contain & control information creatively as best we can. Once everyone wrapped their heads around it, I think the guys were very excited about it. Fortune is a strong, aggressive, young, emerging group of talent that saw a opportunity for them to step up, and now they're taking it."

What fans watching at home can expect to see on the March 3rd edition of iMPACT that's different from their normal Thursday night TNA viewing experience: "What I'm hoping we're going to see is, I know we are going to see a pretty powerful show from a content point of view. You are also going to see a show in front of an energized crowd in a bigger arena that has a different kind of energy. I'm going to say better energy, but a different kind of energy than we typically see."

EXCLUSIVE: Top WWE Diva Rumored To Be Turning Heel
by Nick Paglino
Feb 10, 2011

WrestleZone has learned that WWE creative has been discussing the idea of turning Smackdown Diva Kelly Kelly heel in the near future.

Kelly, who is said to be Vince McMahon's favorite Diva right now, has been working an angle with Edge, Vickie Guerrero and Dolph Ziggler on Smackdown and was recently "fired" from the show.

While no time table has been given for Kelly's turn, it's being said that Vince wants the Diva to make a dramatic "first heel turn" in the company as he currently views her as a the most marketable female in WWE.

[Speilmen230]

Link to the official Wrestlemania 28 logo

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/photo-wwe-releases-official-wrestlemania-28-logo-123487

[Speilmen230]

Well, isn't that a shame? Someone likes TNA more than they like WWE. I mean, my God. I guess it's a crime. It's like being a fan of the Clippers, rather than the Lakers.

I guess it's stupid of me to expect a little bit more from the "best wrestling company in the world." Shame on me.

I never said you have to like WWE more but it would be nice once in a while to know that you acknowledge SOMETHING positive about WWE. Otherwise all of your posts come off as a TNA Troll.

Just saying. I have no problem acknowledging what TNA has done well and i have no problem acknowledging 'E's huge blunders. so i hope you wouldn't/don't write me off as a fanboy.

[K3nTaKa0s]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCKSzN_7sY0

I shouldn't even ask, but what is everyone's thoughts on this perspective? How would you feel about TNA adding an hour of additional programming with footage from house shows with this point of view? Something they could/should use at PPVs or Impacts that are on the road?

[Speilmen230]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCKSzN_7sY0

I shouldn't even ask, but what is everyone's thoughts on this perspective? How would you feel about TNA adding an hour of additional programming with footage from house shows with this point of view? Something they could/should use at PPVs or Impacts that are on the road?

Like tagging another hour on to Impact or creating a new 1 hours show?

[K3nTaKa0s]

Creating a new one-hour show. Whatever.

[Speilmen230]

If it is an hour of solid big name wrestling. do it. If it is going to be them trying to continue their storylines and run matches with undercard guys then no. I i were them, i would televise 3-4 10-15 minute matches with big name guys like Angle, Jarrett, Anderson, AJ Styles, Beer Money, MCMG, & Hardy. You use that show to give extra exposure to your high card guys and get your product more time on air.

[Crush086]

If it is an hour of solid big name wrestling. do it. If it is going to be them trying to continue their storylines and run matches with undercard guys then no. I i were them, i would televise 3-4 10-15 minute matches with big name guys like Angle, Jarrett, Anderson, AJ Styles, Beer Money, MCMG, & Hardy. You use that show to give extra exposure to your high card guys and get your product more time on air.
You run the risk of having just too much programming though. I watch Raw, and occasionally Smackdown, but don't care for any other programming. I mean, I don't think anybody wants to devote every weekday to having to watch to keep up with things (I know it's not on everyday, but you get the idea).

That's one of WWE's problems. They have a crappy roster for the most part yet want to have too many shows on. It's why I never bother with PPVs, because I never know half of the storylines.

[Speilmen230]

You run the risk of having just too much programming though. I watch Raw, and occasionally Smackdown, but don't care for any other programming. I mean, I don't think anybody wants to devote every weekday to having to watch to keep up with things (I know it's not on everyday, but you get the idea).

That's one of WWE's problems. They have a crappy roster for the most part yet want to have too many shows on. It's why I never bother with PPVs, because I never know half of the storylines.

Very true. But i don't see a problem with TNA throwing out a tuesday night 1 hour show on at 8 or 9. I don't know how the ratings would fare, but i do think that they could do it just for wrestling. Not storylines, just pure wrestling.

[K3nTaKa0s]

If they do a one-hour show of just wrestling, it's not going to be the top tier guys.

If you put those guys in 15 minute matches on TV, what's the point of having the PPVs?

[Doors Allan Coe]

It is comical to think that Mr. Perfect, Austin and Roddy Piper had better matches than HBK.

HBK ALWAYS upped Bret's game.

I'm not even going to comment on the Yokozuna or British Bulldog comment. Nobody could save the 2 of them.

Are you kidding me? HBK is great, but HBK isn't better than Bret in his prime. HBK had an amazing career. He's one of the best ever. But he's not untouchable.

pound for pound Bret was the better worker. HBk was better on the mic, he's done a bunch of wild spots over the years. But, wrestling wise I don't think Bret's best matches were against HBK. Between Survivor Series '92, WM 12, and the Montreal screw job I honestly think his matches with Perfect, Austin, and Piper top all three of those.

Survivor Series 92 was nothing special. In all honesty the Iron Man match was boring. And the screwjob was a spectacle but not stellar match.

Don't shit on Davey Boy, he could work. He got a little too into the steroids but he was great when he had to be. But, I don't you get it. You seem like nothing more than an HBK mark. If you get your tongue off Shawn's sack you would be able to see these other matches clearer.

[kittensXLI]

Owen was better than Bret.

[kittensXLI]

Who made a big deal out of Flair/Foley and was calling it a possible five-star spectacle? Yeah. Good luck finding that.

You try to talk shit on TNA, but no one of your points make any sense. You make fun of the Impact Zone, then you try to use it as an indictator as to who is over (or not over) in TNA.

TNA tried to give Mike Tenay an angle/personality? You're talking about one or two segments a week that lasted 2 weeks? You're kidding, right? You're trying to compare that to the shit that WWE is trying to pull with Michael Cole? Give me a break.

Just because WWE's target audience is kids, doesn't mean it has to be a total joke. Kids were the target audience back in the day and the product sure as hell didn't suffer as bad as it does now.

Yeah.. you're right. No one cares how bad the product is. Maybe you should take a look at the latest financial report.

As I told you guys before.. no one would give a shit about WWE. No one bought the fucking PPVs. They're not selling out Raw and Smackdown every week.

So while Santino may be over as a "comedy act," no one's buying tickets or Pay Per Views to see him do the air trombone.

What it comes down to is drawing money and the WWE just isn't bringing in as much as they could.

You just keep on praising that WWE product.
:lol I don't "try" to do anything. You suck off everything TNA does, and throw a hissy-fit when people like myself point out when something sucks. I make fun of the Impact Zone because it truly is pathetic. It's the same group of people every week. Sorry that when Chris Sabin or Jeff Hardy does a flip off a ladder and they chant "This is awesome!!!" I'm unimpressed.

The stuff with Tenay is exactly what the 'E was going for with Cole. The 'E gave a play-by-play guy a personality and story and both got results as well as never stopped pushing it. They made the decision to go for it and rode it out. Tenay flopped terribly, and the fact TNA didn't continue and try to make something out of nothing proves they have a huge hole in booking, effort, and continuity.

I don't care about any WWE buyrates. I don't care if they sell Raw or SD out every week. As a FAN, I care about what product I'm seeing, not that the most profitable guy - Cena - gets pushed. I don't care if TNA pushes their most profitable guys - Hogan and Hardy - because money doesn't matter to me. I'd rather see the talent and the entertainment - Angle and Styles. You're so worried about weekly TV ratings and how much someone draws bank. Unless you're Vince Russo as I've expected all along, you shouldn't be concerned.

The 'E might not be bringing in as much money as it COULD, but this coasting they've done due to lack of competition, lack of talent, and lack of motivation itself still puts out a better product than the company that should be fighting tooth and nail to succeed. I cut up on the 'E all the time. Just because you're more wrapped up in my liking Miz, Morrison, Cole, etc. doesn't mean I haven't pointed out flaws or things I don't like. You disappear when the whole world praises the 'E, then jump on a chance to try and tear them down. We get it, you hate the WWE. Move on already.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Tenay flopped terribly, based on what? Neither you nor I have any idea where they were trying to go with that, since the Taz/Tenay thing happened very few times. It was nowhere close to being a "story." What the hell was the story?

Because Cole sucks, you try to turn it around on Mike Tenay. Funny. I love how I never even mention TNA until someone brings it up.

You try to hard to find these wrong with TNA. These things you come up with just aren't there. Kind of like your complaints about Styles not waiting a week to go after Douglas Williams.

-----

It's funny. I said Cole is awful. I gave plenty of legit reasons behind it. What happens? You guys jump on me about TNA. You jumped on me about Sting being in TNA when I never even brought it up. I never said Sting can work with anybody in TNA. I said Sting is not at the point in his career where he could carry Undertaker through a match. What the hell does that have to do with TNA?

You know very little, so you try to be like me and nit pick little things. The difference is... my points are valid, your's don't make any sense.

Whoop-dee-doo. WWE's number one play-by-play guy has a personality. I think they need to work on getting some of their top stars a personality.

WWE does not have the better product right now.

[kittensXLI]

What funny is the fact throughout all of your posts, you're more worried about proving a point and convincing yourself of things than you are of topic discussion. Just because YOU say your posts are valid, doesn't mean they are. I guess you haven't noticed the fact hardly anyone ever agrees with you when you try to judge something related to the 'E.

Tenay flopped terribly. If it didn't, why would they drop it after a week or two? Is that just bad management once again by TNA? If they never intended to go anywhere with the idea/concept, why even throw it out there at all?

If you think I'm alone in the disliking of things TNA does, such as the Impact Zone, hiring WWE castoffs, pushing Jeff Hardy, etc., then I honestly don't know what to tell you. You seem to be the only one who defends those things, adamantly might I add.

YOU might not think WWE has a better product right now, but how many people still prefer it over TNA? If TNA is as good as you claim, there's no reason more people aren't watching, buying, or heck even talking about them.

[Rodey]

Kelly Kelly is so hot.

[kittensXLI]

Classic Super Genius :

LAWLER AT ‘MANIA? ABOUT TIME

Jerry “The King” Lawler is headed to WrestleMania.

It’s about time.

WWE fans generally don’t know about anything that happens outside the promotion. They’re mostly shielded thereof, though the Hall of Fame’s recognition of non-WWE performers has given them quick peeks.

But Lawler was a BIG STAR. A regional legend that carried Memphis for YEARS. Did the Andy Kaufman angle on Letterman. A complete performer. One of the great promos. Always competent, sometimes brilliant.

Not enough people know that.

This run by Lawler gives prisoners of the WWE bubble a chance to find out. Fans like me get a chance to remember.

Lawler is doing his opportunity justice. He comes across as a guy who used to be great trying to remember how to be great, and coming just close enough to make us believe. He’s not convinced, but he’s hopeful, and his hatred for Michael Cole’s arrogance, disrespect and malfeasance fuels him. It’s like the final Rocky movie, only better.

That’s not how WWE booked it. Their creative team isn’t that bright. Lawler just knows what to do. Always has.

I loved Lawler in Monday’s tag match. WWE fans don’t quite know to pop when he pulls down the strap. But WrestleMania is almost two months away. They’ll learn. Love the fist drop. Love the great worked punches.

I don’t buy wrestling pay-per-views anymore. Not WWE, not TNA. The products just aren’t good enough.

But if "The King" is in ‘Mania, I’m buying. Jerry Lawler, still a draw. I can pay no higher compliment.

ESCAPE FROM THE IMPACT ZONE

Booker T and Kevin Nash ruined TNA’s “they” angle by bolting to the Royal Rumble. That forced the hastiest of swerves at Impact as half the heels turned on the rest of the heels over concern for the company’s welfare. To quote Reg Dunlop, “What do you care? You get your check, right?”

Uh, not always.

Ric Flair wasn’t asking TNA to advance him money when he had his blowup in Dublin. He wanted money he was owed. It seems TNA is in arrears to Flair, as well as several other performers.

But let’s return to fantasyland: A.J. Styles and his heels think Eric Bischoff and his heels are ruining the company. What criteria can Styles apply from a wrestling fan’s standpoint that could draw money? None. Marks don’t care about the company’s welfare, or who owns what, or who got swindled. They care about grudges and belts, just like always.

So Styles is right. Bischoff and his heels ARE ruining TNA. It’s a shoot.

Geez, I didn’t even recognize half the people in that angle. I do know most of them look silly. When did Jeff Hardy join the New York Dolls? Matt Hardy looks RIDICULOUS. I ask again: WHAT HAPPENED TO THOSE TWO? Their ABSURDITY is compounded by their ARROGANCE.

TNA fans need to ask why Booker and Nash would bolt. It’s not for more money. It’s not for a spot at the top of the card. It’s not for a cake schedule. None of those things are being provided to Booker or Nash by WWE.

Booker and Nash JUST GOT TIRED OF SUCKING. They spent years in the BIG TIME. At TNA, they worked in front of minuscule crowds on the road and a bunch of half-wit smart marks at the Impact Zone. DEPRESSING. You’re hanging on in the minor leagues. Same with Flair.

Booker and Nash concluded that it was better to have a small piece of filet mignon than a big bite of a stink sandwich.

Do you blame ‘em?

2.21.11

Give WWE credit for getting something out of Sting without hiring Sting. Or even talking to him.

Sting decided a long time ago he just wasn’t going to work for WWE. It probably started out as disdain for the R-rated style WWE once espoused. Sting is a devout Christian. By now, Sting likely just wants to be the one guy who never worked there. No way he wants to work WWE’s schedule.

But the way the 2.21.11 video was presented, it made marks think that Sting’s WWE debut was imminent. It’s going to be the return of the Undertaker, which won’t disappoint WWE fans. But the Sting tease, false as it was, created a buzz.

That’s genius: Getting something out of the guy you don’t have. And there’s still a payoff: Undertaker.

Sometimes, in some small way, in arguably the most boring wrestling climate in recent memory, creativity emerges. Just lucky, I guess, or they’d do it more often.

STILL CHECKING MY MAILBOX

Jim Ross says on his blog that former WCW employees will meet in Atlanta in late March to commemorate the 10-year anniversary of the final WCW Nitro episode, which was March 26, 2001. Wow, WCW…10 years gone.

I’m sure I won’t be invited. The gathering will probably be limited to those who KILLED the company.

I worked for WCW for seven years. I still can’t believe WCW blew it. How the heck could you F that up?

Just watch TNA every week. The how-to course continues.

Seriously, Nitro beat Raw head-up 84 weeks in a row. The resources provided by Turner Broadcasting were LIMITLESS. How on earth did WCW decline so steeply and suddenly? How did such highly-rated (and, at one time, highly-regarded) programming become so poisonous to a company that once embraced it?

I can only quote Kevin Nash, who phoned me just after the second plane crashed into the World Trade Center on 9/11: “This don’t change the fact that Hogan and Bischoff f***ed up WCW.”

Nash was right. Ill-timed and inappropriate, but absolutely right.

Talk about the AOL/Time-Warner merger all you want, or Jamie Kellner’s disdain for wrestling – but if Hogan and Bischoff hadn’t served agendas, gotten greedy and constantly indulged their own egomania, WCW would have remained hot enough that AOL/Time-Warner couldn’t have justified taking it off the air, and if it did anyway, another network would have bought it and televised it. Period. Analysis has caused paralysis. But that’s what really happened.

[K3nTaKa0s]

There's a lot of reasons why people watch WWE over TNA. It's not hard to comprehend. I've explained it before.

So, from now on, on Raw.. if the backstage interviewer doesn't come out and interview a wrestler while he's coming to the ring, that means that it flopped?

And we've discussed these things before...

TNA is taping two episdoes of Impact in North Carolina in a couple of weeks. Tickets are going very well (you can look this up).

What's wrong with hiring WWE cast-offs?

Last time I checked, Jeff Hardy is still with the company.

-----

Honestly, I don't care if anyone agrees with me. There's what... 6-8 people that post in this thread often?

I said Cole sucks. I gave the reasoning behind me saying that. I don't really know what else I can do.

If TNA is as bad as people claim, why are they still in business?

It's not like I just come on here and bash Raw without even watching the show.

-----

Funny that you pasted an article from Mark Madden that references drawing money on numerous occasions. You just keep on believing that I'm the only one that brings these things up.

[kittensXLI]

There's a lot of reasons why people watch WWE over TNA. It's not hard to comprehend. I've explained it before.

So, from now on, on Raw.. if the backstage interviewer doesn't come out and interview a wrestler while he's coming to the ring, that means that it flopped?

And we've discussed these things before...

TNA is taping two episdoes of Impact in North Carolina in a couple of weeks. Tickets are going very well (you can look this up).

What's wrong with hiring WWE cast-offs?

Last time I checked, Jeff Hardy is still with the company.

-----

Honestly, I don't care if anyone agrees with me. There's what... 6-8 people that post in this thread often?

I said Cole sucks. I gave the reasoning behind me saying that. I don't really know what else I can do.

If TNA is as bad as people claim, why are they still in business?

It's not like I just come on here and bash Raw without even watching the show.
Because it's "better"...

wut?

TNA can sell-out MSG for all I care. Getting good ticket sales in NC means absolutely nothing when it comes to the talent their company has working there.

Hiring castoffs is fine if the signings are good. Hardy is not good. He only gets a pop because girls cheer him without a shirt, or he's jumping off something. He can't talk. That's fine, though, as a lot of people can't talk. Those people usually work around it. Hardy doesn't. Hardy also can't wrestle. So now he's down 0-2.

I don't care if you don't like Cole. His entire premise is to not like him. My point is that if TNA would've succeeded with Tenay, it'd be a point of emphasis with you. The 'E does it, and you bash it.

I honestly don't know how TNA is still in business. The way they pay their talent and who their talent is also boggles my mind.

And for the 10th time, the only person who bashes TNA without watching it is Bo.

[kittensXLI]

Funny that you pasted an article from Mark Madden that references drawing money on numerous occasions. You just keep on believing that I'm the only one that brings these things up.
Funny that out of that ENTIRE article, a lot of which cut up on your company, you pull out the singular thing that means nothing to me but will somehow "proves your point".

[K3nTaKa0s]

I never said that you come on here to bash TNA without watching the product. I just wanted you and everyone else to be aware that I'm not basing my opinions off of an online show review. I actually watch the shows.

Hardy has been doing well as a heel. Better than I expected. A little inconsistant, but with time, I hope he gets better. I wouldn't say he "can't wrestle."

Are you familiar with the term "X-Pac Heat" (or go-away heat)? That's what Michael Cole is getting. He's not getting "Hulk Hogan just joined the nWo Heat".

Succeeded with what with Tenay? What were they going for there?

----

"Getting good ticket sales in NC means absolutely nothing when it comes to the talent their company has working there." Wow. Could it be that you're referring to the "WWE Rejects" or "WWE Cast-offs"? Say it isn't so! People would buy a ticket to see Ric Flair or Hulk Hogan? Matt Hardy or Jeff Hardy? No way.

[kittensXLI]

I'm very familiar with X-Pac heat. Vickie gets it every time she's on-screen. Cole isn't X-Pac heat whatsoever. People don't come in here like, "Man Cole really ruins Raw for me." People come in here like, "Man, Vickie really ruins EVERYTHING for me." Massive difference.

EDIT - Well, you say Cole ruins Raw for you.

And I'd never pay for a ticket to see Flair, Hogan, or either Hardy. At this day and age, I'm sorry you would.

[hbktonyb]

Are you kidding me? HBK is great, but HBK isn't better than Bret in his prime. HBK had an amazing career. He's one of the best ever. But he's not untouchable.

pound for pound Bret was the better worker. HBk was better on the mic, he's done a bunch of wild spots over the years. But, wrestling wise I don't think Bret's best matches were against HBK. Between Survivor Series '92, WM 12, and the Montreal screw job I honestly think his matches with Perfect, Austin, and Piper top all three of those.

Survivor Series 92 was nothing special. In all honesty the Iron Man match was boring. And the screwjob was a spectacle but not stellar match.

Don't shit on Davey Boy, he could work. He got a little too into the steroids but he was great when he had to be. But, I don't you get it. You seem like nothing more than an HBK mark. If you get your tongue off Shawn's sack you would be able to see these other matches clearer.

And I could say the same thing about you regarding Bret. Stop licking his ass.

Bret Hart was one of the most overrated wrestlers in WWE history. He was very good, but actually isn't even in Shawn's league.

Locked up. Oooh look, bulldog, headbut, inverted atomic drop, oh no someone throws him chest first into the turnbuckle, but he hits the big stomp into a 2nd rope ax handle, sharp shooter! every match was the same thing.

[kittensXLI]

I hate Bret Hart more than anyone probably in history, but that's a little unfair.

[hbktonyb]

He was just so freakin overrated. There were plenty of Hart matches I was bored with, but I can honestly say I was never bored watching an Angle or HBK match. I hate when people put Bret in their league when it comes to wrestling matches.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Bret had a tendency to be lazy at times. And Shawn had a hell of a comeback run from '02-'10. It's a tough call. I always preferred Bret over Shawn.

[kittensXLI]

Well, again, Owen was better, so...

[Crush086]

Maybe it's because I don't watch it frequently, but I usually enjoy Impact. I think tonight's show has been solid, outside of that retarded clause Jarrett threw into his PPV match.

Oh yeah, and getting rid of that homosexual looking belt.

[Speilmen230]

my top 8 will almost always shake out this way when it comes to being a total package (in ring ability, Charisma, look, match quality)

1. HBK
2. Kurt Angle
3. Triple H
4. Chris Jericho
5. The Rock
6. The Undertaker
7. Stone Cold Steve Austin
8. Sting

[hbktonyb]

my top 8 will almost always shake out this way when it comes to being a total package (in ring ability, Charisma, look, match quality)

1. HBK
2. Kurt Angle
3. Triple H
4. Chris Jericho
5. The Rock
6. The Undertaker
7. Stone Cold Steve Austin
8. Sting

HBK
Angle
Hogan
Rock
Haitch
Jericho circa Y2J years
King Bookah
Randy Savage
RVD
Ric Flair

[BotheDMBFan]

And for the 10th time, the only person who bashes TNA without watching it is Bo.

I watch on occasion. I usually become confused by how terrible it is, so I watch something else, like Food Network or SLAPSHOT.

[BotheDMBFan]

He was just so freakin overrated. There were plenty of Hart matches I was bored with, but I can honestly say I was never bored watching an Angle or HBK match. I hate when people put Bret in their league when it comes to wrestling matches.

As is Shawn.

[BotheDMBFan]

Well, again, Owen was better, so...

Owen might be the best in-ring worker not named Dean Malenko ever.

[hbktonyb]

As is Shawn.

I take it you never saw one of his matches.

Any wrestling fan would never call the best ever "overrated".

[BotheDMBFan]

my top 8 will almost always shake out this way when it comes to being a total package (in ring ability, Charisma, look, match quality)

1. HBK
2. Kurt Angle
3. Triple H
4. Chris Jericho
5. The Rock
6. The Undertaker
7. Stone Cold Steve Austin
8. Sting

1. Kurt Angle
2. Bret Hart
3. Undertaker
4. Owen Hart
5. Dean Malenko
6. Foley
7. Austin
8. Orton

[BotheDMBFan]

I take it you never saw one of his matches.

Any wrestling fan would never call the best ever "overrated".

He's not the best ever. DAMN good, but not the best ever.

[hbktonyb]

He's not the best ever. DAMN good, but not the best ever.

Ok, I could respect that, but he is def. not overrated.

[kittensXLI]

1.) Jericho
2.) Angle
3.) HBK
4.) Owen
5.) Undertaker
6.) Sting
7.) Austin
8.) Hennig
9.) Bret
10.) Bulldog

Not my favorite list by any means. But as far as the criteria go...

[jackisback24]

no love for Steamboat? Terry Funk? Vader???

[hbktonyb]

Its time. Its time. Its Vader time!

P.S. hated him.

[BotheDMBFan]

Ok, I could respect that, but he is def. not overrated.

If you say he is the best, and I disagree, that would make him overrated in my eyes in comparison to your rating.

[BotheDMBFan]

Its time. Its time. Its Vader time!

P.S. hated him.

I hate him too, but he is easily one of the best bigs ever. His Japan work was amazing.

[kittensXLI]

no love for Steamboat? Terry Funk? Vader???
Vader was great. Didn't like him, but he was legit. Underrated.

Steamboat was before my time, so no judgment.

Terry Funk? Not a chance.

Jerry Lawler owns all, though.

[hbktonyb]

If you say he is the best, and I disagree, that would make him overrated in my eyes in comparison to your rating.

Ok, but overall, guys like Jericho, HBK, Angle...not overrated. Bret by the general wrestling community - grossly overrated.

[BotheDMBFan]

Ok, but overall, guys like Jericho, HBK, Angle...not overrated. Bret by the general wrestling community - grossly overrated.

No, not really. He deserves his place as one of the best of all time.

[kittensXLI]

Bret in-ring is rated fine. People who think he's a legend total package are the morons.

[BotheDMBFan]

Bret in-ring is rated fine. People who think he's a legend total package are the morons.

Bret is top 5 in ring. His mic work not being the best hurts him. He was good on the mic, but nothing amazing. Damn good at getting a crowd to love or hate him though, just with how he was able to act in the ring.

[jackisback24]

You guys will like Jericho book. Vince called him into his office after winning IC title from Joanie Chyna Laurer and blasted him for not knowing how to work. He then had to apologize to Chyna. Good stuff.:lol

[K3nTaKa0s]

Source: http://pwtorch.com/artman2/publish/absurityofitall/article_47637.shtml



I believe the character of Michael Cole is hurting business instead of helping it. Of course, he's supposed to be over-the-top. He's written that way. But, Cole's not in the squared circle, wrestlers are. So when Cole stands up on Raw ranting and raving, fans can see right through the facade. I can. And it makes me wonder why WWE chooses to hype up a pipsqueak announcer rather than wrestlers some people paid to see. Sure, it could lead to Cole getting his at WrestleMania, but is that what PPV business has come to - seeing an announcer get "sucker" punched by Jerry Lawler?

To this day, Michael Cole has yet to sell me on a PPV all by himself. (Obviously, he has called great matches and has had great emotional lines, but selling a PPV? Nope.) If you don't enjoy Michael Cole's character, you're not given a lot of other options since Cole's on both Raw and Smackdown.

[hbktonyb]

Bret in-ring wasn't even that freakin good.

[jackisback24]

Bret in-ring wasn't even that freakin good.
is HBK in your username for Michaels or Hoboken?

[BotheDMBFan]

Bret in-ring wasn't even that freakin good.

Wrong on so many levels.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Bret in-ring wasn't even that freakin good.

Gotta disagree with you there.

[kittensXLI]

Tony, I'm a Bret hater, but come on now...

[hbktonyb]

I don't care what anybody says, Bret was a good wrestler, but he is no where near at the level wrestling fans put him at. His matches were so predictable. Same 5 moves every match.

When I was in high school my original email address was HBKtonyb. I moved to college and met a bunch of wrestling fans, and of course we formed a little dorm degeneration X. i was the heart break tony B. So it kinda stuck and I made all of my screennames with the HBK.

Luckily, I moved to Hoboken so the HBK now has 2 meanings. ;)

p.s. Bret screwed Bret.

[Speilmen230]

Watching TNA from tonight and it is just so uncomfortable to watch Karen be involved in the storyline.

I really don't like the 'real' angle's that they are taking. Blurring the lines between wrestling and reality is a bit unnerving to me. and it feels like WCW all over again.

[hbktonyb]

Bring back Katie Vick.

[Speilmen230]

Robert Roode just cut the promo of the year so far. He killed it out there cutting that promo against Jarrett. He is oozing with talent and charisma.

[hbktonyb]

Things won't be completely right with TNA, as long as Tenay is announcing.

[Speilmen230]

Things won't be completely right with TNA, as long as Tenay is announcing.

Who else can they use or get though?

I guess Jeremy Borash could take over but he is not much better.

[Speilmen230]

Weak table match. no table match should be less than 5 minutes.

[hbktonyb]

JR. That's pretty much it.

I actually like TNA, but I hate Tenay so much. Reminds me too much of shitty WCW days.

[Speilmen230]

honestly Fortune splitting from Immortal was probably a really good thing. that alliance was just too big.

[Speilmen230]

JR. That's pretty much it.

I actually like TNA, but I hate Tenay so much. Reminds me too much of shitty WCW days.

JR would never go to TNA.

This stuff with karen and Kurt is really hard to watch.

I feel so bad for Kurt.

[kittensXLI]

Borash would far and away be TNA's best announcer. It'd be cool to see him at the [wrestling] Mothership too.

[Speilmen230]

So far a really solid TNA. Awesome promo by Roode. Idk why they set another TNA World Championship match in 2 weeks in a row. Kind diminishes the meaning of the title in my book. Taz and Tenay are just not good.

[kittensXLI]

Cole
Lawler
Matthews
Striker
Booker
Borash
Grisham
Tenay
that rando old head from Raw last month backstage
Taz

[BotheDMBFan]

Joey Styles would be great for TNA.

[hbktonyb]

JR
Gorilla
Vince
Bobby Heenan
Ventura
Jerry
Styles
Heyman
Cole
Tenay
Tax
Adamle
Schiavone

If I were TNA, I'd throw a lot of money at Styles or JR.

[Crush086]

honestly Fortune splitting from Immortal was probably a really good thing. that alliance was just too big.
I was confused usually when they were all together. Like wtf is in each faction, and why are they all together now?

Fortune splitting turned them into a bunch of scrubs though. I like Fortune now though. I think Styles works better as a face.
JR would never go to TNA.

This stuff with karen and Kurt is really hard to watch.

I feel so bad for Kurt.
That clause in the match might be one of the stupidest clauses I can remember.
So far a really solid TNA. Awesome promo by Roode. Idk why they set another TNA World Championship match in 2 weeks in a row. Kind diminishes the meaning of the title in my book. Taz and Tenay are just not good.
I think they're better than listening to Cole all evening. srs

[Doors Allan Coe]

HBK
Angle
Hogan
Rock
Haitch
Jericho circa Y2J years
King Bookah
Randy Savage
RVD
Ric Flair

Wow, what a mark!

Who is next on your list the Miz?

You are a WWE mark. You do realize great wrestlers don't always pan out in the WWE. Flair, Hogan, Rock, HHH... bla bla bla. Now I understand why you can't appreciate the in ring greatness of Bret Hart.

[hbktonyb]

Wow, what a mark!

Who is next on your list the Miz?

You are a WWE mark. You do realize great wrestlers don't always pan out in the WWE. Flair, Hogan, Rock, HHH... bla bla bla. Now I understand why you can't appreciate the in ring greatness of Bret Hart.

This post makes absolutely no sense. Flair and Booker were not even original WWE wrestlers.

Of course I know great wrestlers don't always work in WWE, we were listing our top 10 based on everything. Flair, Hogan, Rock and HHH should be in anyone's top 10. And also, Flair was a great wrestler when he was young...

And yes, I love the Miz.

[kittensXLI]

Ultimo Dragon is amazing The 'E screwed that up terribly. Yeah, he didn't fit their style whatsoever, but there could've been some sort of middle ground established. It completely bombed instead.

Alberto Del Rio's quality too. Obviously not "omgz top 10 ALL TIME", but his Mexico stuff is really, really good too.

[Doors Allan Coe]

This post makes absolutely no sense. Flair and Booker were not even original WWE wrestlers.

Of course I know great wrestlers don't always work in WWE, we were listing our top 10 based on everything. Flair, Hogan, Rock and HHH should be in anyone's top 10. And also, Flair was a great wrestler when he was young...

And yes, I love the Miz.

Trust I would love to debate the top 10 wrestlers of all time. I've loved wrestling my whole live. I've worked with almost everyone on your top 10 and ran my own promotion for years. But, we just view wrestling differently.

Your list is made up of all mainstream American starts from the 90's. If being WWE Champion from 1992-2002 was the only criteria for being a great wrestler then you have a serious list. It's like making a list of the best football players and only including guys from one decade. Just because the game was played different in other eras.

Clearly you don't understand how great Bret Hart really was. Maybe it's because his best work was from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. As a wrestler Bret was one of the best. His work is immaculate.

Again, the guys on your list are great. It's your opinion. But, in my opinion you list is narrow, predictable, and basically says "hey I'm a mark...my only criteria for being great is success in the WWE/F during a 10 year window."

It's a mainstream mark top 10 list. Congrats.

[kittensXLI]

Hogan is overrated. There, I said it.

[Rodey]

Hogan is overrated. There, I said it.

This is not new news. :lol

Hulk Hogan might be the single most overrated wrestler in history. He was terrible in the ring and wasn't very good on the mic either. His gimmick is what put him over. Obviously his personality played a big role in how that gimmick came off and he should be credited for that, but Hogan just happened to come along at the right time.

[Rodey]

1. Kurt Angle
2. Bret Hart
3. Undertaker
4. Owen Hart
5. Dean Malenko
6. Foley
7. Austin
8. Orton

:ugh:freak

Are you for real?

[kittensXLI]

:ugh:freak

Are you for real?
He's absolutely for real.

[Rodey]

He's absolutely for real.

Ridiculous.

I actually used to like Orton, but I've begun to dislike him more and more. I cannot stand watching his matches now because it's the same stupid shit all the time. He struggles for awhile and is about to lose, but then, out of nowhere he hits some ridiculous RKO and wins. Retarded.

[hbktonyb]

Trust I would love to debate the top 10 wrestlers of all time. I've loved wrestling my whole live. I've worked with almost everyone on your top 10 and ran my own promotion for years. But, we just view wrestling differently.

Your list is made up of all mainstream American starts from the 90's. If being WWE Champion from 1992-2002 was the only criteria for being a great wrestler then you have a serious list. It's like making a list of the best football players and only including guys from one decade. Just because the game was played different in other eras.

Clearly you don't understand how great Bret Hart really was. Maybe it's because his best work was from the mid 80's to the mid 90's. As a wrestler Bret was one of the best. His work is immaculate.

Again, the guys on your list are great. It's your opinion. But, in my opinion you list is narrow, predictable, and basically says "hey I'm a mark...my only criteria for being great is success in the WWE/F during a 10 year window."

It's a mainstream mark top 10 list. Congrats.

I can only judge my list based on my age and who I actually saw wrestle. Those are the best I've seen in the business. Not as pure wrestlers, but performers.

I can't include guys like Verne Gagne or even Bruno Sammartino, b/c I wasn't alive during their best years...

[Doors Allan Coe]

Ridiculous.

I actually used to like Orton, but I've begun to dislike him more and more. I cannot stand watching his matches now because it's the same stupid shit all the time. He struggles for awhile and is about to lose, but then, out of nowhere he hits some ridiculous RKO and wins. Retarded.

Yeah, for some reason the RKO doesn't have the same suprise factor as the Diamond Cutter. I don't what it is about the way he does it.

Maybe it's because DDP has long hair and it helped cover the fakeness. Maybe it's because DDP was super over for a couple years.
Maybe it's because Orton doesn't play the underdog so a quick RKO doesn't really excite anyone. It just initiates the inevitable.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I can only judge my list based on my age and who I actually saw wrestle. Those are the best I've seen in the business. Not as pure wrestlers, but performers.

I can't include guys like Verne Gagne or even Bruno Sammartino, b/c I wasn't alive during their best years...

Then don't shit on Bret Hart as if you really watched his career. At least admit you are full of hot air. I most likely wouldn't include Bruno of Gagne anyway. Maybe after work I'll put together a top ten for fun.

[kittensXLI]

I'm interested in seeing this. What's the criteria? In-ring work only? Over-ness? Mic skills? Total package combined?

[hbktonyb]

Then don't shit on Bret Hart as if you really watched his career. At least admit you are full of hot air. I most likely wouldn't include Bruno of Gagne anyway. Maybe after work I'll put together a top ten for fun.

I'd be interested in seeing it.

I think Bret was good, I just don't think he was great and I think he is highly overrated. Many of his matches were boring and he wasn't good cutting promos.

[hbktonyb]

I'm interested in seeing this. What's the criteria? In-ring work only? Over-ness? Mic skills? Total package combined?

Total package - in ring, promos, connecting with the audience, etc...

[Doors Allan Coe]

I'm interested in seeing this. What's the criteria? In-ring work only? Over-ness? Mic skills? Total package combined?

That will be the tough part.

As a promoter the best wrestler is always the guy who draws the most money. As a wrestling fan it the best in ring wrestler. As a entertainment fan it's the biggest spots and best talker. A total package in 1980 is much different than a total package in 2010.

I also am going to take into consideration wrestlers who changed the business. Guy who came along and were like nobody else...then suddenly everybody was just like them. Flair and Hogan almost have to make every all-time top 10. So expect those guys I guess. Although, I could maybe to a top ten excluding them so I can get a little more creative.

[kittensXLI]

That will be the tough part.

As a promoter the best wrestler is always the guy who draws the most money. As a wrestling fan it the best in ring wrestler. As a entertainment fan it's the biggest spots and best talker. A total package in 1980 is much different than a total package in 2010.

I also am going to take into consideration wrestlers who changed the business. Guy who came along and were like nobody else...then suddenly everybody was just like them. Flair and Hogan almost have to make every all-time top 10. So expect those guys I guess. Although, I could maybe to a top ten excluding them so I can get a little more creative.
I understand. As a fan, I'm definitely not concerned about drawing ability and making money. Marketing machines like Hogan and presently Cena mean nothing to me.

Obviously in-ring only people like Dean and Benoit were among the best I've ever witnessed, but they lacked either over-ness or mic skills to put them in the top 10 I think.

I'm not too familiar with Sting from NWA days, but I feel like he's well rounded enough to be a top 10 or so guy. Just as an example. Not to mention the in-ring talent and awareness to put on a heck of a match.