Pro Wrestling is FAKE!?!

[BotheDMBFan]

I'd rather him stay in the E and work with the best this country has to offer.

[kittensXLI]

Well, you figure that IF he does leave the WWE he will take a little break. At that point I would imagine he would start taking selective indy dates.

Japan is great and all but what's the point? Maybe I'll watch on youtube? I've been to countless ROH shows. I would easily head to NYC and check Punk out. like a huge mark I was front row for Misawa in NYC.
Well yeah, I've mentioned the time off/break in prior posts on here. No doubt since he's been feeling burntout.

Hey it doesn't matter to me if I have to watch him on YouTube. Any quality match is worth it. I don't see him having too many quality workers to compete with in TNA outside of Fortune or Angle. Although Punk/Shelley would be fantastic. Their match in ROH from '05 was so good.

[kittensXLI]

I'd rather him stay in the E and work with the best this country has to offer.
Once Extreme Rules passes, a ton of things will become more clear. If Miz retains, a feud with Punk seems like the best scenario. Although a Cena win could still keep the door open for a Punk insertion, I doubt anyone wants to see both Cena with the title and Punk stuck working with Cena again.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Well yeah, I've mentioned the time off/break in prior posts on here. No doubt since he's been feeling burntout.

Hey it doesn't matter to me if I have to watch him on YouTube. Any quality match is worth it. I don't see him having too many quality workers to compete with in TNA outside of Fortune or Angle. Although Punk/Shelley would be fantastic. Their match in ROH from '05 was so good.

That is where we differ.

I personally would much rather watch Punk in person. Matches are ok on youtube. The are good on DVD. But, nothing is better than watching a great show in person. It what professional wrestling is all about. Some of the best matches I've ever witnessed were in person.

It's like how going to a great concert beats downloading a great concert. Sitting front row and watching Punk cut a promo and wrestle a 15 minute match beats the hell out of watching it on youtube.

[kittensXLI]

That is where we differ.

I personally would much rather watch Punk in person. Matches are ok on youtube. The are good on DVD. But, nothing is better than watching a great show in person. It what professional wrestling is all about. Some of the best matches I've ever witnessed were in person.

It's like how going to a great concert beats downloading a great concert. Sitting front row and watching Punk cut a promo and wrestle a 15 minute match beats the hell out of watching it on youtube.
Some of us don't have the means to do this. Let alone do it consistently.

[K3nTaKa0s]

TNA filed a trademark for "Impact Wrestling." The description in the trademark database matches that of TNA as:

"Entertainment services, namely, the production and exhibition of professional wrestling events rendered live, and production of television programs in the field of wrestling and sports entertainment; providing wrestling news and information via a global computer network; providing wrestling news and information via the internet. The domain name impactwrestling.com is also now owned by TNA Entertianment.

Source: Wrestling Observer

[Doors Allan Coe]

Some of us don't have the means to do this. Let alone do it consistently.

It's not that expensive. I'm not sure where you are from. But, GA tickets to shows a usually $20 or less.

[Doors Allan Coe]

TNA filed a trademark for "Impact Wrestling." The description in the trademark database matches that of TNA as:

"Entertainment services, namely, the production and exhibition of professional wrestling events rendered live, and production of television programs in the field of wrestling and sports entertainment; providing wrestling news and information via a global computer network; providing wrestling news and information via the internet. The domain name impactwrestling.com is also now owned by TNA Entertianment.

Source: Wrestling Observer

:hump

yeahhh

[kittensXLI]

It's not that expensive. I'm not sure where you are from. But, GA tickets to shows a usually $20 or less.
Time, money, and location are all out of my favor right now. And potentially moving across the country by the end of the year doesn't help either.

I went to an ECW house show a few years ago before he won any major WWE titles, and even then Punk was the highlight. He's ALWAYS been entertaining to me, regardless of on TV, on video, live, in a title match or not, any opponent.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Time, money, and location are all out of my favor right now. And potentially moving across the country by the end of the year doesn't help either.

I went to an ECW house show a few years ago before he won any major WWE titles, and even then Punk was the highlight. He's ALWAYS been entertaining to me, regardless of on TV, on video, live, in a title match or not, any opponent.

Where are you from?

[kittensXLI]

Where are you from?
PA, which sounds fine, but again I don't currently have the means to attend shows. Even with WWE coming to the Consol Energy Center, it wasn't able to fit it in.

[Doors Allan Coe]

PA, which sounds fine, but again I don't currently have the means to attend shows. Even with WWE coming to the Consol Energy Center, it wasn't able to fit it in.

Pa?!?!?

Oh shit, you missed so many great shows over the years!

Final Battle 2003- Philadelphia, PA 12/27/03
The stars of All Japan invade Ring of Honor. Witness The Great Muta & Arashi defending the All Japan Tag Titles against The Prophecy, plus Sastoshi Kojima, Kaz Hayashi, Tomiaoki Honma. & Kazushi Miyamoto.

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Jay Briscoe
2. John Walters vs. Xavier (Fight Without Honor)
3. Matt Stryker vs. BJ Whitmer (Field of Honor Finals)
4. Samoa Joe vs. Mark Briscoe (ROH World Title Match)
5. CM Punk & Colt Cabana vs. Tomiaoki Honma & Kazushi Miyamoto
6. AJ Styles vs. Kaz Hayashi
7. Homicide vs. Satoshi Kojima
8. The Great Muta & Arashi vs. Christopher Daniels & Dan Maff (All Japan Tag Team Title Match

-----
Glory By Honor VII- Philadelphia, PA 9/20/08 (DVD)

Features Steel Cage Warfare with The Briscoes & Austin Aries vs. The Age of the Fall vs. Necro Butcher; Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico for the ROH World Title; Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima for the GHC Jr. Title; Kensuke Sasaki & much more.

1. Jerry Lynn vs. Kenny King
2. Brent Albright vs. Adam Pearce (NWA World Heavyweight Title Match)
3. Go Shiozaki vs. Kevin Steen (FIP World Heavyweight Title Match)
4. Bryan Danielson vs. Katsuhiko Nakajima (GHC Jr. Heavyweight Title Match)
5. Erick Stevens vs. Rhett Titus
6. Roderick Strong, Jigsaw, & Ruckus vs. Chris Hero, Eddie Edwards, & Shane Hagadorn
7. Kensuke Sasaki vs. Claudio Castagnoli
8. Nigel McGuinness vs. El Generico (ROH World Title Match)
9. The Briscoes & Austin Aries vs. Tyler Black, Jimmy Jacobs, & Delirious vs. Necro Butcher (Steel Cage Warfare)


---------

Forget about youtube. You could watch all the top indy and Japanese guys in person.

[Speilmen230]

What about Cincinnati?

I know ROH is coming to Dayton in May, and i am going to try and go to that, but other than that i am nit very up on the Indy scene.

[Doors Allan Coe]

What about Cincinnati?

I know ROH is coming to Dayton in May, and i am going to try and go to that, but other than that i am nit very up on the Indy scene.

I keep an eye on NY, NJ, PA, CT, and MA.

Lots of good stuff around here. I just don't go much anymore. Lots of shows suck. But, a big ROH event is always a great show. Or at least it was years ago went I went often.

[BotheDMBFan]

And what of California? Oh, WE GET JACK SHIT!

[Doors Allan Coe]

And what of California? Oh, WE GET JACK SHIT!

PWG Kurt Russellreunion 2: The Reunioning
January 29, 2010
Los Angeles, CA
Eight Person Tag Team Match
1. "Pretty" Peter Avalon, Caleb Konley, "Manscout" Jake Manning, & ODB vs. Cedric Alexander, Brandon Gatson, Candice LeRae, & Willie Mack

Singles Match
2. Mr. Águila vs. Rey Bucanero

Singles Match
3. "Supernatural" Shane Helms vs. "Hollywood Submission Machine" Joey Ryan

Singles Match
4. Low Ki vs. Davey Richards

Jake "The Snake" Roberts Retirement Match
5. Sinn Bodhi vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts

Legends Wrestleroyal Battle Royale
6. Danny Davis vs. Mike Graham vs. Jimmy Hart vs. Tito Santana vs. Barry Orton vs. Barbarian vs. Rock Riddle vs. Shane Douglas vs. The Warlord vs. Shane Helms vs. Chavo Guerrero vs. Savio Vega vs. "Cowboy" Bob Orton vs. Mando Guerrero vs. Cruel Connection vs. Terry Funk vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Vampiro vs. Sean Morley vs. Tatanka

Singles Match
7. Chris Hero vs. "Mr. Wrestling" Kevin Steen

DDT4 Entry Four-Way Tag Team Match
8. The Cutler Brothers (Brandon & Dustin Cutler) vs. Fightin' Taylor Boys (Brian Cage-Taylor & Ryan Taylor) vs. RockNES Monsters (Johnny Goodtime & Johnny Yuma) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson)

Pro Wrestling Guerrilla World Championship Title Match
9. Claudio Castagnoli (Champion) vs. El Generico (Challenger)

-----

That's a pretty decent show...

[kittensXLI]

I'd watch that for matches 2 and 4 alone, let alone the whole thing.

[BotheDMBFan]

PWG Kurt Russellreunion 2: The Reunioning
January 29, 2010
Los Angeles, CA
Eight Person Tag Team Match
1. "Pretty" Peter Avalon, Caleb Konley, "Manscout" Jake Manning, & ODB vs. Cedric Alexander, Brandon Gatson, Candice LeRae, & Willie Mack

Singles Match
2. Mr. Águila vs. Rey Bucanero

Singles Match
3. "Supernatural" Shane Helms vs. "Hollywood Submission Machine" Joey Ryan

Singles Match
4. Low Ki vs. Davey Richards

Jake "The Snake" Roberts Retirement Match
5. Sinn Bodhi vs. Jake "The Snake" Roberts

Legends Wrestleroyal Battle Royale
6. Danny Davis vs. Mike Graham vs. Jimmy Hart vs. Tito Santana vs. Barry Orton vs. Barbarian vs. Rock Riddle vs. Shane Douglas vs. The Warlord vs. Shane Helms vs. Chavo Guerrero vs. Savio Vega vs. "Cowboy" Bob Orton vs. Mando Guerrero vs. Cruel Connection vs. Terry Funk vs. "Rowdy" Roddy Piper vs. Vampiro vs. Sean Morley vs. Tatanka

Singles Match
7. Chris Hero vs. "Mr. Wrestling" Kevin Steen

DDT4 Entry Four-Way Tag Team Match
8. The Cutler Brothers (Brandon & Dustin Cutler) vs. Fightin' Taylor Boys (Brian Cage-Taylor & Ryan Taylor) vs. RockNES Monsters (Johnny Goodtime & Johnny Yuma) vs. The Young Bucks (Matt & Nick Jackson)

Pro Wrestling Guerrilla World Championship Title Match
9. Claudio Castagnoli (Champion) vs. El Generico (Challenger)

-----

That's a pretty decent show...

Pissed I missed Roberts last match. He was the best.

[kittensXLI]

He was probably the best ever here : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GbqDlvqKVY

[kittensXLI]

I'm trying to figure out when The Rock went from GOAT to just awesome. WM17 and prior?

1998 through WM17 = GOAT,
post-WM17 through SS'02 = awesome,
post-SS'02 through now = good

[Speilmen230]

He was still pretty damn good in 2001. It was his 2003 run that wasn't up to Rock standards.

[kittensXLI]

His tone changed and he started trying too hard. While he was establishing himself hitting his peak was the best. His prime following that was still great, but different. Post-2002 he's really fallen off. You can hear it in his voice all throughout.

[kittensXLI]

I think it's about time Punk makes it into my top-5 all-time favorites. He was forever locked into the #7 spot. His matches are just too superior to be kept below The Rock. And, well, I like him more than HBK. GD making a top 10 is so hard. I have had 9 locked in, but this #10 is so tough.

[Rodey]

Is the draft effective immediately or not until after Extreme Rules this weekend?

Wonder if Smackdown will be worth watching tomorrow.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I think it's about time Punk makes it into my top-5 all-time favorites. He was forever locked into the #7 spot. His matches are just too superior to be kept below The Rock. And, well, I like him more than HBK. GD making a top 10 is so hard. I have had 9 locked in, but this #10 is so tough.

I'm actually working on my top 10 list.

I'm thinking of typing it up and posting it. It's not turning out to be a run of the mill top 10 thats for sure.

[kittensXLI]

Is the draft effective immediately or not until after Extreme Rules this weekend?

Wonder if Smackdown will be worth watching tomorrow.
After Extreme Rules. And yes.

I'm actually working on my top 10 list.

I'm thinking of typing it up and posting it. It's not turning out to be a run of the mill top 10 thats for sure.
Definitely post it. Mine is probably rather lame in the eyes of someone like you, but it's definitely a "favorites" list. There's no major Japan influence or 70's and 80's influence for the most part, so I guess it's "mainstream" guys.

[Doors Allan Coe]

After Extreme Rules. And yes.


Definitely post it. Mine is probably rather lame in the eyes of someone like you, but it's definitely a "favorites" list. There's no major Japan influence or 70's and 80's influence for the most part, so I guess it's "mainstream" guys.

Yeah, I wrote my in pencil.

I don't want to be too counter culture. But, I just sat back and thought about which wrestler I bought PPVs, tickets, and DVD to see. Also which guys I used to seek out when tape trading in the 90's.

Mine doesn't have many guys who peaked in the 70's. Lots of guys from the late 80's and 90's. A couple of journeymen. A couple of champions. A couple of my usuals.

[kittensXLI]

Yeah, I wrote my in pencil.

I don't want to be too counter culture. But, I just sat back and thought about which wrestler I bought PPVs, tickets, and DVD to see. Also which guys I used to seek out when tape trading in the 90's.

Mine doesn't have many guys who peaked in the 70's. Lots of guys from the late 80's and 90's. A couple of journeymen. A couple of champions. A couple of my usuals.
1.) Chris Jericho
2.) Owen Hart
3.) Kurt Angle
4.) Christian
5.) CM Punk
6.) Shawn Michaels
7.) The Rock
8.) Curt Hennig
9.) Chris Benoit
10.) Ultimo Dragon

Rather technical-filled list. Most of the guys are complete workers, though. And if they aren't in an area - Benoit in talking, The Rock in selling/match quality - they are rather elite in another area to make up for it - Benoit in wrestling ability, The Rock in talking+charisma.

[Richard Belding]

Two just awesome Punk moments from back in the indie days. Just fantastic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DvDztAz8YA&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3o_HuyLPyE&feature=related

If only I were there to see him wrestle in a strip club.

[BotheDMBFan]

Kittens, I got an email back from Jeff A. Basically, he said I was cool and that I cracked up the guys running the chat, but that a lot of the stuff I wrote wasn't kid friendly enough to get through.

[BotheDMBFan]

A top 10 wrestler's list? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit

[kittensXLI]

Kittens, I got an email back from Jeff A. Basically, he said I was cool and that I cracked up the guys running the chat, but that a lot of the stuff I wrote wasn't kid friendly enough to get through.
omg that's awesome. What have you guys talked about? Post/PM e-mails?

[BotheDMBFan]

omg that's awesome. What have you guys talked about? Post/PM e-mails?

I sent in an email for the magazine. Last line was sucking up to him. He said he remembered "Bo" and my outpouring of love for him. That was basically the whole thing.

[kittensXLI]

I sent in an email for the magazine. Last line was sucking up to him. He said he remembered "Bo" and my outpouring of love for him. That was basically the whole thing.
That's pretty much what you had to do in that chat. If you didn't suck up to them or at least talk about them, your comment wasn't getting posted. Hence them putting up the thing I said about Fink.

[BotheDMBFan]

I wrote a lot of suck-uppy things, which were all hilarious. I guess if you actually talked about the draft it would have helped...

[kittensXLI]

I wrote a lot of suck-uppy things, which were all hilarious. I guess if you actually talked about the draft it would have helped...
I posted a good amount of things pertaining to the draft, but they didn't like any of them I guess. Too many truth bombs. But posts saying, "Jeff A is the best ever" made it through literally over a dozen times. Same with, "i commented a 100 times and still havent had 1 posted", and "i will win 10 dollars if my comment gets posted/my mom will take me to extreme rules if i get a comment posted".

[Doors Allan Coe]

Here are my top NINE favorite wrestlers of all-time. I did this quick and I might think of somebody I left off. But, here are the guys I enjoed the most over the years. Whether is was watching them in person or on grainy VHS tapes, all of these guys stood out to me. This doesn't mean I think they are the best technical wrestlers. But, I makred out for them then and sometimes will mark for them now.

Abdullah the Butcher - Well, I've already said a lot about Abby on this board. Growing up I feared the Butcher. From his short tenure in WCW, to all the coverage of him in Apter mags. I've always loved Abdullah. He wasn't the greatest wrestler, but he is one of wrestling all time greatest characters. Just the fact Vince Mcmahon inducted him into the HOF says something about how great he was. It's not often Vince inducts somebody who barely ever worked for him, yet worked almost everywhere else in the world.

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin - Well what can I say? He is the reason I started watching the WWF more often. I was a huge fan of his back in WCW and he turned into one of the biggest stars of all-time. His act got a little stale, but between his quest for the WWF title and his heel turn years later I truly enjoyed every moment of Steve Austin in his prime.

Rob Van Dam - I haven't watched him in TNA. I notice he doesn't seem that popular around here. But, back in the 90's RVD was one of my favorite workers. He always impressed during his ECW tenure. I would even argue his ECW TV title reign was one of the best title runs of the 90's. He took risks and was creative in the ring. It's not just anybody who can headline a PPV against Balls Mahoney and tear the house down. Mr. PPV RVD is easily one of my top ten favorite wrestlers.

CM Punk - Once again, I haven't really watched much Punk in the past few years. But, his time in ROH captivated me. His matches with Samoa Joe and the Summer of Punk are some of the highest quality indy moments of the 2000's. His ring work is seamless. His promos are great. I used to go to ROH shows just to watch Punk.

"The Nature Boy" Ric Flair - Do I really need an explanation? Flair was the man.

"The Loose Cannon" Brian Pillman - For a period of several years I followed Pillman religiously. From his exploits in WCW, to his ECW run, to his debut in the WWF. Pillman was great. For being around such a short time, he put together a great mixture of matches and promos. His death was untimely and terrible. The loss of Pillman truly bothered me more than anybody else from teh era, including Eddie. When I think of my favorite wrestling moments, Pillman always pops up.

"Macho Man" Randy Savage - Once again it's seasy to see why I really like Macho. Wild promos, great matches, and always entertaining. Even during his WCW tenure you could always count on Macho for a great match and funny promo. It's a shame he a bit blackballed. He was one of the best during one of wrestling most profitable eras.

"Mr. Danger" Mitsuhiro Matsunaga - Who? Yeah, death match wrestling master. I spend countless hours collecting Big Japan pro wrestling footage of "Mr. Danger". He wasn't a technical wizard. I couldn't understand a word he said, but I loved his matches. I'll just let some of his crazy match stipulation speak for themselves

Circus Deathmatch- above the ring is a scaffold and under that scaffold there is a type of circus net made of barbed wire. When a wrestler falls off of the scaffold the barbed wire spider net is there to “catch” the wrestlers. After a wrestler, or a team of wrestlers, have been thrown into the net it is cut down and the match continues to a pin fall.
Piranha Deathmatch- Barbed wire boards are placed in the corners. In the middle of the ring, there is a tank full of Piranhas. To win you must hold your opponent in the tank for ten seconds.
Scorpion Deathmatch- This match is similar to the Piranha Deathmatch. However, instead of barbed wire boards, there are two cacti. And instead of Piranhas, there is a tank full of scorpions.
Crocodile Deathmatch- Two wrestlers compete in a non-specific death match. The loser of the match must then go on to wrestle a crocodile.(This match has only been performed once in a death-match between Shadow WX & Mitsuhiro Matsunaga.)
Fire Stone Deathmatch- Both the inside and outsides of the ring are lined with electrified space heaters wrapped in barbed wire. The match is won by pin fall.
Big Japan W*ING Crisis Big Born Deathmatch- Barbed-wire-board, thumbtacks, bed-of-nails, circus-style-scaffold into a barbed-wire-trampoline, tub of scorpions, cactus plants, light bulbs, fire stones, dry Ice, barbed-wire-bat, drills, swords, knives and buzzsaws.

Raven - "So it is written, so it shall come to pass" Raven added a little intellect to ECW. His matches were great. His stories were great. Other than getting killed by Goldberg, his WCW run was great too. There is a reason he's been around so long. His Secret of the Ring series alone is amazing. Raven is the man!

Honoable Mention (Tied in 10th)
Big Van vader
The Briscoes (circa 2000's)
Jushin "Thunder" Liger
The Ultimate Warrior

[Crush086]

RVD is pretty much a watered down WWF/E model. Still does his Rolling Thunder and 5 Star, but is pretty much a generic guy nowadays.

[kittensXLI]

RVD still can't cut a promo and hasn't changed or progressed his gimmick in 20 years. But I guess omg martial arts/being flexible is still appealing to teenagers.

[Doors Allan Coe]

RVD still can't cut a promo and hasn't changed or progressed his gimmick in 20 years. But I guess omg martial arts/being flexible is still appealing to teenagers.

In ECW he could. But, he was teamed with Bill Alfonzo.

Being a cocky dickwad and teamed with an annoying manager made him great. I'm assuming he's a lame babyface in TNA.

I never really watched much RVD in WWE or TNA. So my memories mostly take place during the orginal ECW w/ Bill Alfonzo blowing his fucking whistle the entire match.

[kittensXLI]

Bill Alfonzo is the reason RVD has a career.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Bill Alfonzo is the reason RVD has a career.

:twak

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact he used to steal the show night in and night out in ECW.

Did you ever watch him in ECW? Did you ever sit down and watch his matches with Jerry Lynn or Sabu? He seriously was the best wrestler goin in the mid 90's.

TNA makes Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair lame. I honestly think at his peak he was arguably the best wrestler in the world.

[Rodey]

I can't even begin to tell you how much I hate RVD.

[kittensXLI]

:twak

Yeah, it has nothing to do with the fact he used to steal the show night in and night out in ECW.

Did you ever watch him in ECW? Did you ever sit down and watch his matches with Jerry Lynn or Sabu? He seriously was the best wrestler goin in the mid 90's.

TNA makes Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair lame. I honestly think at his peak he was arguably the best wrestler in the world.
RVD has ALWAYS been lackluster to me. I've never understood his appeal or seen the so-called talent others do. Including his peak in ECW.

[Doors Allan Coe]

RVD has ALWAYS been lackluster to me. I've never understood his appeal or seen the so-called talent others do. Including his peak in ECW.

Wow. I'm shocked. For a guy who gets off on Owen Hart and Ultimo Dragon, I am shocked you some how can't see how special RVD was.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFcvHZm_6Iw

Here is some video of ECW highlights. Remember these a lot of this still was taking place from 1994-1999. This guy lit indy wrestling on fire. Many of these clips aren't from PPVs. They are from house shows or TV tapings. This guy was on top of his game night in and night out.

I don't watch him now, so he could be lame. But, that's TNA and WWE. He hasn't been RVD 4:20 in over a decade. Rolling thunder, 5 * Frog Splash, Van Daminator, Van Terminator... I'm sorry I've watched wrestling from every era, I've never watched a guy like RVD in the mid 90's. He was seriously one of the best in the world.

[AndySlash]

wwe really got rvd to not care anymore. i'm with coe- rvd was absolutely great at the time.

[Doors Allan Coe]

RVD v. Jerry Lynn - ECW TV 1998
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Zvn_8dpbU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyavnUi0JOQ&feature=related

Here is a match from ECW TV in 1998. I watched this very episode at 2 am in 1998. This is wrestling. This is the type of matches I would love to see on a regular basis. I seriously doubt RAW has had a match close to this competitive or entertaining in ages. I know they didn't when I used to watch. I seriously can't understand how somebody can't see how special RVD was.

[kittensXLI]

Putting RVD, even at his best, in comparison to Owen and Dragon is rather insulting. Seriously.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Putting RVD, even at his best, in comparison to Owen and Dragon is rather insulting. Seriously.

Are you kidding?

Not putting RVD in a class with those guys is embarrassing.

I'm not saying he's the best ever, but he had so many more exciting matches than Owen. Maybe it's the WWF style at the time. I would put RVDs best matches against Owens any day of the week.

Seriously, maybe I'm blocking Owen out or something. but, I watched pretty much his entire career in the WWF. I just don't remember Owen EVER wowing me like RVD. The Slammy's were great. The King of Hearts was great. The run of the Hart Foundation in the late 90's was great. But, Owen wasn't some phoenix. RVD was doing split legged moonsault, Van Daminator w/ chairs, and front flipping from the top rope into the crowd while Owen was dressing up in a crown and cape. RVD was doing that while Owen was dressed up like the Blue Blazer too...

Mr. Monday Night, Mr. PPV. RVD 4:20... his amazing skills are the reason he is still around today. TNA might be misusing him, but his peers recognize how amazing he is. He is one of a kind.

[GrooGrux420]

RVD v. Jerry Lynn - ECW TV 1998
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6Zvn_8dpbU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyavnUi0JOQ&feature=related

Here is a match from ECW TV in 1998. I watched this very episode at 2 am in 1998. This is wrestling. This is the type of matches I would love to see on a regular basis. I seriously doubt RAW has had a match close to this competitive or entertaining in ages. I know they didn't when I used to watch. I seriously can't understand how somebody can't see how special RVD was.

Hell just the first 2 minutes are better than anything WWE puts on TV nowadays.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Hell just the first 2 minutes are better than anything WWE puts on TV nowadays.

To think that this was on in the middle of the night on fucking Empire Sports...

Basically if TNA does re-launch as IMPACT that is the type of match they should open the show with...

This is the type of match I think of when I think about great wrestling. This is what I enjoy. To me this is the best of the best. Professional Wrestling has so many different definitions it's tough to make comparisons. But, I like exciting competitive matches that are complimented by stories and characters. as oppose to professional wrestling that is character and stories that are broken up by uncompetitive throw away matches.

When RVD was on PPV you KNEW that you were going to see something amazing. That is one guy. Today you order TNA and WWE PPVs and HOPE for a match close to as good as this one.

for me...
Professional Wrestling > Sports Entertainment

[kittensXLI]

Are you kidding?

Not putting RVD in a class with those guys is embarrassing.

I'm not saying he's the best ever, but he had so many more exciting matches than Owen. Maybe it's the WWF style at the time. I would put RVDs best matches against Owens any day of the week.

Seriously, maybe I'm blocking Owen out or something. but, I watched pretty much his entire career in the WWF. I just don't remember Owen EVER wowing me like RVD. The Slammy's were great. The King of Hearts was great. The run of the Hart Foundation in the late 90's was great. But, Owen wasn't some phoenix. RVD was doing split legged moonsault, Van Daminator w/ chairs, and front flipping from the top rope into the crowd while Owen was dressing up in a crown and cape. RVD was doing that while Owen was dressed up like the Blue Blazer too...

Mr. Monday Night, Mr. PPV. RVD 4:20... his amazing skills are the reason he is still around today. TNA might be misusing him, but his peers recognize how amazing he is. He is one of a kind.
So basically you like RVD's flips over Owen's gimmicks.

[kittensXLI]

Rima : http://www.diva-dirt.com/2011/04/27/exclusive-miss-usa-rima-fakih-speaks-on-tough-enough-elimination-reveals-rib-injury-more/

[Doors Allan Coe]

So basically you like RVD's flips over Owen's gimmicks.

Nope.

I like RVD in ring work much more than Owens. I like the sheer number of quality RVD matches I've watched over the number of great Owen matches I watched.

I mean honestly give me some Owen matches that you consider great. I'm up to hear you out. But, honestly man I just can't remember Owen putting on matches half as entertaining as RVD. I do remember Owen running around in hammer pants boring me as a child. I remember some decent matches with Bret. I remember him making me laugh. I just don't remember him making me say, "god I have to order this PPV" or "awesome Owen is wrestling on Raw".

What do you consider Owens best matches?

I can easily give you 5 RVD matches off the top of my head that are better than any match I remember Owen having.

[BotheDMBFan]

Owen v Bret in the cage match may well be the best match ever.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Owen v Bret in the cage match may well be the best match ever.

That wasn't even Bret's best match.

It was great. But, best match ever?? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that...or read somebody write that...

[kittensXLI]

Hell just the first 2 minutes are better than anything WWE puts on TV nowadays.
...

RVD does that stuff every week on Impact, minus the arm wrenching combos (which Owen murders RVD at btw) and the Boston Crab. Heck, Mr. JL did more in that first link than RVD anyway.

Watch the Owen links I posted a page or two ago. You'll see he's clearly better.

[BotheDMBFan]

That wasn't even Bret's best match.

It was great. But, best match ever?? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that...or read somebody write that...

To be fair, I think Bret is probably the best ever and I think (before I actually make it up) that he might be in half of my top 10 matches. When something that old can captivate someone who started watching wrestling in ECW's heyday and in the heart of the attitude era, it's impressive.

[Speilmen230]

*slowly raises hand* I like Shawn Michaels...& i think he is the best ever.

[Doors Allan Coe]

...

Watch the Owen links I posted a page or two ago. You'll see he's clearly better.

Just post me a match that you think is him at his best. Odds are I've seen it already, but I'll check it out.

I'll watch it. Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't remember ever being wowed by Owen.

[Speilmen230]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hyxAu8P9yk

great Owen match.


I will say, after watching a lot of Japanese stuff the last month with Bo. Muta & Lyger are really fucking awesome performers.

[Doors Allan Coe]

*slowly raises hand* I like Shawn Michaels...& i think he is the best ever.

I think he's one of the best.

Not on the top of my favroites list. But easily one of the best ever. If not the best.

[BotheDMBFan]

*slowly raises hand* I like Shawn Michaels...& i think he is the best ever.

*Proudly raises hand* Bret Hart is the best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be. (Except for Zack Ryder.)

[JRS1386]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojdx074gpDs&playnext=1&list=PL1BB5CA5FC9F6911F this was funnier than I expected

[kittensXLI]

Nope.

I like RVD in ring work much more than Owens. I like the sheer number of quality RVD matches I've watched over the number of great Owen matches I watched.

I mean honestly give me some Owen matches that you consider great. I'm up to hear you out. But, honestly man I just can't remember Owen putting on matches half as entertaining as RVD. I do remember Owen running around in hammer pants boring me as a child. I remember some decent matches with Bret. I remember him making me laugh. I just don't remember him making me say, "god I have to order this PPV" or "awesome Owen is wrestling on Raw".

What do you consider Owens best matches?

I can easily give you 5 RVD matches off the top of my head that are better than any match I remember Owen having.
Owen versus Ultimo Dragon that I posted a few pages ago is better than anything I've ever seen RVD do. Owen/Bret from WM, Owen/Bret cage match, heck even the IC Title match with Austin was good prior to the infamous piledriver botch. Owen/Liger from NJPW April 28th, 1991, Owen/HBK from I think In Your House in 1995, any Bret and Owen tag team match, one of my personal favorites Owen/Bulldog for the European Title on Raw. Even Owen/123 Kid in the '94 KOTR is more entertaining to me than any RVD match.

[kittensXLI]

Just post me a match that you think is him at his best. Odds are I've seen it already, but I'll check it out.

I'll watch it. Maybe I'm wrong. I just don't remember ever being wowed by Owen.
I mentioned at least 10 matches in the post above this. I'll try to find some links.

[Doors Allan Coe]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hyxAu8P9yk

great Owen match.


I will say, after watching a lot of Japanese stuff the last month with Bo. Muta & Lyger are really fucking awesome performers.

I'm pretty sure Jushin Liger could make a broomstick look like a good worker.

New Japan has had hundreds of matches that are just as good or better than that.

Was his WWF basically a wash other than the cage match w/ Bret? I am really trying hard to remember an awesome Owen Hart match...

[Speilmen230]

I think he's one of the best.

Not on the top of my favroites list. But easily one of the best ever. If not the best.

As a total package, HBK had it all: selling, mic skills, charisma, the look, high flying wrestling, technical wrestling, big spots, mat wrestling (to a degree), Catch as Catch Can (where he shined the most), & a little bit of power.

Was he a baby backstage, yeah, but that doesn't change what he was able to do in front of the camera or in the ring.

[BotheDMBFan]

I'm pretty sure Jushin Liger could make a broomstick look like a good worker.

New Japan has had hundreds of matches that are just as good or better than that.

Was his WWF basically a wash other than the cage match w/ Bret? I am really trying hard to remember an awesome Owen Hart match...

Bret v Owen at WM X is an all time classic, too.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Owen versus Ultimo Dragon that I posted a few pages ago is better than anything I've ever seen RVD do. Owen/Bret from WM, Owen/Bret cage match, heck even the IC Title match with Austin was good prior to the infamous piledriver botch. Owen/Liger from NJPW April 28th, 1991, Owen/HBK from I think In Your House in 1995, any Bret and Owen tag team match, one of my personal favorites Owen/Bulldog for the European Title on Raw. Even Owen/123 Kid in the '94 KOTR is more entertaining to me than any RVD match.

Any RVD match?

Either you're embellishing or you're delusional.

Any Bret and Owen tag match is better than ANY RVD match? Case Closed. Is Owen you're personal favorite wrestler or something? I'm trying to be honest with you, but to say all that stuff is BETTER than ANY RVD match is almost laughable.

I'm trying to compare the best stuff. I'm not trying to tell you Everything Owen did was terrible. But, I just don't remember Owen's great matches. I remember Bret's, HBK's, even the Undertakers... I just can't remember Owen tearing down the house...

[Doors Allan Coe]

Bret v Owen at WM X is an all time classic, too.

I'm not arguing that either. That stole the show.

I'm just shocked you guys think RVD can't hold a candle to Owen Hart...

[BotheDMBFan]

RVD's ECW stuff was good, I just prefer Owen by a large margin.

RVD now is one of the worst I've ever seen in the main event scene.

[Doors Allan Coe]

RVD's ECW stuff was good, I just prefer Owen by a large margin.

RVD now is one of the worst I've ever seen in the main event scene.

TNA makes nearly everyone laughable...

[kittensXLI]

Even during RVD's peak, ECW in the 90's, I've gotten more entertainment out of countless other workers. Heck, Raven in ECW was more entertaining to me, or the entire Eddie/Dean feud.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Even during RVD's peak, ECW in the 90's, I've gotten more entertainment out of countless other workers. Heck, Raven in ECW was more entertaining to me, or the entire Eddie/Dean feud.

The Eddie/Dean feud?

Are you kidding?

You have some deep rooted hatred towards RVD for some reason?

Raven's character was great. But, his matches weren't anything compared to what RVD would do in the ring.

[jcomey]

Owen v Bret in the cage match may well be the best match ever.

It's likely in Bret's top three, but nowhere near close to his best match ever, let alone THE best match ever. It's likely the greatest match to ever open WM, and it is a great match...but no, not near best-ever material.

[Doors Allan Coe]

It's likely in Bret's top three, but nowhere near close to his best match ever, let alone THE best match ever.

My personal favorite is Bret/Perfect SS'91. Then Bret/Piper WM8. Then Bret/Davey Boy SS'92 and IYH. Oh and Bret/Austin at WM 13.

Yeah, Bret/Owen isn't in my top three that's for sure.

[Speilmen230]

TNA has made Kurt Angle terrible. I think that is enough evidence to say that they ruin everyone that comes to work for them.

I put Kurt's WWE work on a very high pedestal, and now he is a sick parody of his former self.

BTW i find it pretty ridiculous to say that EVERYTHING Owen did was better than RVD. RVD has had some pretty classic matches, and you have to have blinders on to not see that.

[kittensXLI]

I don't think I've ever seen an ECW RVD match that was worthy of a 3.5 or better out of 5 rating. Except ONE match with Jerry Lynn. I don't know when it was but it was some no time limit match.

[K3nTaKa0s]

How did TNA make Kurt Angle terrible? I swear I read the dumbest shit on the Internet in this thread. A "terrible" Kurt Angle is better than anyone in WWE right now.

[BotheDMBFan]

It's likely in Bret's top three, but nowhere near close to his best match ever, let alone THE best match ever. It's likely the greatest match to ever open WM, and it is a great match...but no, not near best-ever material.

Their Cage match was at Summerslam.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I don't think I've ever seen an ECW RVD match that was worthy of a 3.5 or better out of 5 rating. Except ONE match with Jerry Lynn. I don't know when it was but it was some no time limit match.

Well, you're missing out.

I'm not trying to bullshit you. I'm not trying to shit on Owen.

But, RVD has a a ton of success in the business for a guy who hasn't had a match better than 3.5 or whatever that means.

We're not even debating RVD v. Owen you basically debating whether RVD is below average or not. He was great man.

Embrace the greatness of Mr. Monday Night...He was the Whole F'N Show...

[K3nTaKa0s]

I mean, I guess you could be right. I don't think TNA could out-do an angle where Kurt Angle rapes Sharmell.

[BotheDMBFan]

How did TNA make Kurt Angle terrible? I swear I read the dumbest shit on the Internet in this thread. A "terrible" Kurt Angle is better than anyone in WWE right now.

Not even close. CM Punk blows Kurdt away.

[Doors Allan Coe]

How did TNA make Kurt Angle terrible? I swear I read the dumbest shit on the Internet in this thread. A "terrible" Kurt Angle is better than anyone in WWE right now.

That could be true.

But, you have to admit Kurt Angle has truly made a mockery of himself sine he jointed TNA. He used to represent what is right about wrestling, now he represents what is so corny about wrestling...

[jcomey]

Their Cage match was at Summerslam.

Okay. I'm talking about WM X, where Owen pinned Bret, and then Bret went on to win the WWF Title later that night.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I'm loving this thread right now.

Kittens is delusional
K3nta is finding a way to bring shitty ass TNA into this...

[K3nTaKa0s]

I'm loving this thread right now.

Kittens is delusional
K3nta is finding a way to bring shitty ass TNA into this...

Sorry, but others in this thread bring up TNA a lot more than I do.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Sorry, but others in this thread bring up TNA a lot more than I do.

You made me laugh.

You agreed with the fact TNA ruins everybody just to take a jab at kittens about how the WWE sucks even worse...

edit: well you didn't really agree...but Kurt Angle is a joke man...

[BotheDMBFan]

Okay. I'm talking about WM X, where Owen pinned Bret, and then Bret went on to win the WWF Title later that night.

Right on. I was talking about the cage match being amazing, then I later brought up WM X. Just setting things straight.

[kittensXLI]

Well, you're missing out.

I'm not trying to bullshit you. I'm not trying to shit on Owen.

But, RVD has a a ton of success in the business for a guy who hasn't had a match better than 3.5 or whatever that means.

We're not even debating RVD v. Owen you basically debating whether RVD is below average or not. He was great man.

Embrace the greatness of Mr. Monday Night...He was the Whole F'N Show...
I just don't see the appeal and entertainment you guys have from him. I also don't understand whatsoever how he can be considered a better performer/more talented than an Owen Hart. When I think of RVD, the only positive I can pull out off the top of my head is his crazy PPV match with Lynn. I don't know when it was but it was no time limit and on YouTube a while ago. Outside of that match, RVD has always been rather lackluster to me. And that's not even getting started with his WWE and TNA trash.

I hate the fact his "talents" have been overblown too. He couldn't talk, and he never developed or evolved. ECW was the risk, and every match is the same old routine. That's what separates him from people like HBK, Owen, Dragon, etc. And as far as the people who didn't develop their in-ring work greatly, they've typically captivated me in other ways be it charisma or promos.

RVD is just everything I don't like in a wrestler.

[K3nTaKa0s]

You made me laugh.

You agreed with the fact TNA ruins everybody just to take a jab at kittens about how the WWE sucks even worse...

When did I agree with the fact TNA ruins everybody? I must've missed that.

Like I've said before.. some people can't figure out the difference between "I don't like this" and "Bad writing/booking/gimmick/etc".

[kittensXLI]

I'm loving this thread right now.

Kittens is delusional
K3nta is finding a way to bring shitty ass TNA into this...
:lol Hey now...

[BotheDMBFan]

When did I agree with the fact TNA ruins everybody? I must've missed that.

Like I've said before.. some people can't figure out the difference between "I don't like this" and "Bad writing/booking/gimmick/etc".

There is so much irony here, Edgar Allen Poe just got a boner.

[kittensXLI]

You made me laugh.

You agreed with the fact TNA ruins everybody just to take a jab at kittens about how the WWE sucks even worse...

edit: well you didn't really agree...but Kurt Angle is a joke man...
I have no idea what he's been saying, but I guess he's lucky literally no one will be watching TNA tonight with things like the NFL draft, NBA playoffs, NHL playoffs, Steve Carrell's last Office episode, etc. all on tonight. God knows what abortion is planned in TNA this evening. I'd wager a "Solid show tonight." post from him, though, considering no one else will be saying anything about it.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Wow. I must really be hated in this thread if people put me on their ignore list. And I thought I had a tendency to take things personally. Guess I'm not that bad after all.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I just don't see the appeal and entertainment you guys have from him. I also don't understand whatsoever how he can be considered a better performer/more talented than an Owen Hart. When I think of RVD, the only positive I can pull out off the top of my head is his crazy PPV match with Lynn. I don't know when it was but it was no time limit and on YouTube a while ago. Outside of that match, RVD has always been rather lackluster to me. And that's not even getting started with his WWE and TNA trash.

I hate the fact his "talents" have been overblown too. He couldn't talk, and he never developed or evolved. ECW was the risk, and every match is the same old routine. That's what separates him from people like HBK, Owen, Dragon, etc. And as far as the people who didn't develop their in-ring work greatly, they've typically captivated me in other ways be it charisma or promos.

RVD is just everything I don't like in a wrestler.

Yeah, I guess all the wrestling fans were wrong. He won the WWE title because he had no talent. He walked into TNA and was given the belt because he's a phony. He headlined ECW PPVs because he did the same old match every time. Oh and he only had one good match. His whole career he lucked out because he could wrestle, he couldn't talk, fans didn't react to him, he didn't entertain people...

You must enjoy some strange ass wrestling. We're talking about RVD here... This is the guy Vince Mcmahon put over Cena for the title...

The entire wrestling world isn't crazy... you might be wrong on this one.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I find it funny that Samoa Joe sucks, but Cody Rhodes is great.

[Doors Allan Coe]

When did I agree with the fact TNA ruins everybody? I must've missed that.

Like I've said before.. some people can't figure out the difference between "I don't like this" and "Bad writing/booking/gimmick/etc".

Some people can't figure out the difference of it's good and it sucks but I like it anyway.

[Doors Allan Coe]

There is so much irony here, Edgar Allen Poe just got a boner.

:hump:hump:hump

[K3nTaKa0s]

Some people can't figure out the difference of it's good and it sucks but I like it anyway.

TNA > WWE -- I'll stand by that every day. Although I'm afraid, at this point, that's really not saying a whole lot.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I find it funny that Samoa Joe sucks, but Cody Rhodes is great.

I think they both are great...

They each could be ultimately be better, but they are both good.

[BotheDMBFan]

Cody is stepping up his game, Joe has gotten hella fat and lazy.

[Doors Allan Coe]

TNA > WWE -- I'll stand by that every day. Although I'm afraid, at this point, that's really not saying a whole lot.

The point I'm trying to make is who cares?

It's like arguing whether drinking diarrhea is better than eating shit with a fork and knife...

WWE is appealing to kids. TNA isn't sure what it's doing.

Why stand by TNA? Do you not see how corny it is? It's like a parody of professional wrestling. The stories are over written and corny. The acting is terrible. It's quintessential Jeff Jarrett.

[kittensXLI]

Yeah, I guess all the wrestling fans were wrong. He won the WWE title because he had no talent. He walked into TNA and was given the belt because he's a phony. He headlined ECW PPVs because he did the same old match every time. Oh and he only had one good match. His whole career he lucked out because he could wrestle, he couldn't talk, fans didn't react to him, he didn't entertain people...

You must enjoy some strange ass wrestling. We're talking about RVD here... This is the guy Vince Mcmahon put over Cena for the title...

The entire wrestling world isn't crazy... you might be wrong on this one.
Okay I disagree with a lot of this post.

I never said RVD was talentless. Just that his talent has been vastly overrated. I don't deny his athleticism at all. He just can't talk, sell, or develop/evolve.

There's x amount of people that won the WWE Title that shouldn't have. RVD isn't the only one.

To the bolded = think about what you're saying here. It's TNA...

Watch the Jerry Lynn match you posted a couple pages ago in here. Then watch Impact last week. RVD does the same exact match minus the arm wrench combination and the Boston Crab. His matches are majorly similar for the last decade+.

I also never said fans don't react to him. Fans react to John Cena. How good is he? Same thing as far as drawing money goes (not that it applies to you or this conversation, but still). People that say "so and so never drew a dime" doesn't matter to me personally because I'm going to like someone regardless if he makes a company money or not. I've talked about a worker's drawing ability before, and said "so and so never drew", but it still didn't affect my stance on them.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Joe/Pope was a solid match at Lockdown. I'm interested in seeing where each guy goes from here.

[GrooGrux420]

Back reading this thread is pretty hilarious, and Coe summed it up.

I've come to the conclusion that Kittens hates RVD because he doesn't like (in his own words) "Spot Monkeys", which to a certain extent RVD was. That said, RVD had a bunch of great matches in ECW that weren't spotfests. Take that Lynn/RVD match.

It was great, and believable. I loved Lynn's counters to some of RVD set-ups. Nothing pisses me off more, than taking way too long to set-up a move when clearly in-ring psychology would suggest the opponent shouldn't be down that long. If you want to get to that spot, wear down, or hit them with a high impact move.

As for the Owen/RVD debate, I gotta side with RVD. I always felt he was pretty crappy on the mic (like Morrison), so I could never really put him too high on an all-time list. However, his matches were always at least worth checking out. Like Coe said, when RVD was on a card, I waited to see that match or order that PPV. He was worth it IMO.

I like Owen (probably in my top 20), but didn't care for his gimmicks and, was meh on the mic, better than most though. When an Owen match came on, I was willing on watching, and 8/10 enjoyed what I watched and felt it was worth watching. But would never go out of my way to make sure I checked it out.

[kittensXLI]

I think RVD and Owen might be complete polar opposites the more I think about it.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Okay I disagree with a lot of this post.

I never said RVD was talentless. Just that his talent has been vastly overrated. I don't deny his athleticism at all. He just can't talk, sell, or develop/evolve.

There's x amount of people that won the WWE Title that shouldn't have. RVD isn't the only one.

To the bolded = think about what you're saying here. It's TNA...

Watch the Jerry Lynn match you posted a couple pages ago in here. Then watch Impact last week. RVD does the same exact match minus the arm wrench combination and the Boston Crab. His matches are majorly similar for the last decade+.

I also never said fans don't react to him. Fans react to John Cena. How good is he? Same thing as far as drawing money goes (not that it applies to you or this conversation, but still). People that say "so and so never drew a dime" doesn't matter to me personally because I'm going to like someone regardless if he makes a company money or not. I've talked about a worker's drawing ability before, and said "so and so never drew", but it still didn't affect my stance on them.

Um...tons of wrestlers do the same shit over and over. Flair didn't powerslamed off the top rope every match. Bret Hart didn't do a 2nd rope elbow drop into a 2 count every match. The Undertaker didn't walk on the top rope for 20 years... that's wrestling.

Cena isn't a bad worker. If you can't see how talented Cena is than your not seeing that big picture. You have WWE tunnel vision. If you didn't force yourself to tune in and watch him every week you would realize he's entertaining. Hogan used to be on TV a few times a month. Cena is on TV 30 minutes a week for years at a clip. It's obviously going to get old. But, that is the nature of the show you are tuning into.

RVD is great. I'm sorry. I don't know if you've even watched much RVD. All you can think of is a Jerry Lynn Match that you think had No Time Limit? That settles the argument I guess... you kinda don't know what you're talking about?

[Doors Allan Coe]

Back reading this thread is pretty hilarious, and Coe summed it up.

I've come to the conclusion that Kittens hates RVD because he doesn't like (in his own words) "Spot Monkeys", which to a certain extent RVD was. That said, RVD had a bunch of great matches in ECW that weren't spotfests. Take that Lynn/RVD match.

It was great, and believable. I loved Lynn's counters to some of RVD set-ups. Nothing pisses me off more, than taking way too long to set-up a move when clearly in-ring psychology would suggest the opponent shouldn't be down that long. If you want to get to that spot, wear down, or hit them with a high impact move.

As for the Owen/RVD debate, I gotta side with RVD. I always felt he was pretty crappy on the mic (like Morrison), so I could never really put him too high on an all-time list. However, his matches were always at least worth checking out. Like Coe said, when RVD was on a card, I waited to see that match or order that PPV. He was worth it IMO.

I like Owen (probably in my top 20), but didn't care for his gimmicks and, was meh on the mic, better than most though. When an Owen match came on, I was willing on watching, and 8/10 enjoyed what I watched and felt it was worth watching. But would never go out of my way to make sure I checked it out.

Thank god! A sane person!

[Doors Allan Coe]

Hmmmm....

I'm working on a new list!

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

the rivalry between RVD and Lynn was excellent. i never met an Owen Hart fan in my life. good wrestler, just shocked me someone actually name dropped Owen.

[Doors Allan Coe]

the rivalry between RVD and Lynn was excellent. i never met an Owen Hart fan in my life. good wrestler, just shocked me someone actually name dropped Owen.

...clap...clap....clapclap...clapclapclapCLAPCLAPC LAP!!!!!:multi

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

the whole fucking show :lol

[kittensXLI]

Um...tons of wrestlers do the same shit over and over. Flair didn't powerslamed off the top rope every match. Bret Hart didn't do a 2nd rope elbow drop into a 2 count every match. The Undertaker didn't walk on the top rope for 20 years... that's wrestling.

Cena isn't a bad worker. If you can't see how talented Cena is than your not seeing that big picture. You have WWE tunnel vision. If you didn't force yourself to tune in and watch him every week you would realize he's entertaining. Hogan used to be on TV a few times a month. Cena is on TV 30 minutes a week for years at a clip. It's obviously going to get old. But, that is the nature of the show you are tuning into.

RVD is great. I'm sorry. I don't know if you've even watched much RVD. All you can think of is a Jerry Lynn Match that you think had No Time Limit? That settles the argument I guess... you kinda don't know what you're talking about?
You really don't see how someone like Flair, Bret, or Undertaker has changed over time? RVD has changed and/or improved literally absolutely nothing.

I thought you didn't watch TNA or WWE anymore? How do you know if someone has changed, or if someone is good or not, or repetitive or not?

Listen to a Cena promo. It's not good. Watch a Cena match. He can't sell. I completely understand the way he's being used and doing what is asked of him/who his audience is. If you can't see past that into the type of talent that is or isn't there, I don't know what to tell you. I guess Cena is by default a brawler, no? You know who was a fantastic brawler? Steve Austin. Cena would never be able to work a good match from his end with SCSA because he's not talented enough, and the match would only go as far as Austin could carry it. Watch all of Cena's WM main events. There is one remotely good one, and it's because of his opponent carrying him to it (HBK).

I am only able to reference the RVD match I enjoyed like that because it's all I can remember. I don't have a limitless knowledge and memory of wrestling matches and show history. When someone says, remember Bret/Owen in the cage, you just know. RVD has so few of those. The ONE I have of him is...that Jerry Lynn match with no time limit.

You can blame RVD for being watered down in WWE and in TNA. That's a rather cheap excuse if you ask me, though. If WWE people can evolve or improve themselves within that company, there's no reason RVD couldn't. He got lazy, as despite his WWE restrictions compared to his ECW limits, he never bothered to actually work.

That doesn't take away from his athleticism either, which I again never denied.

[GrooGrux420]

the rivalry between RVD and Lynn was excellent. i never met an Owen Hart fan in my life. good wrestler, just shocked me someone actually name dropped Owen.

Only Owen fans, I've met are part of the IWC (ie smarks), nothing wrong with that, but felt like he was overrated and not worthy was putting him in the likes of glorified mid-carders like Benoit and Eddie (nothing against them, love both).

I will put up my top list when I get home after class. I will give a fair warning though, my world-wide wrestling knowledge is pretty low so I'm might just keep it to North American workers.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

RVD is a stoner and possibly a scum bag. thats why he never moved up in those companies. but he busted his ass during ECW. and ECW caught the attention of WCW and WWF immediately... (Attitude, Extreme matches, gimmicks, and tons of wrestlers) Bret the Hitman Hart is a fucking superstar. Most definitely. Gotta love what they did in ECW though.

[davidhamrick10]

I checked this thread 3 hours ago and then now I have 3 pages to backread?

i never thought RVD would be such a hot button issue.

[kittensXLI]

And by no means am I trying to slap a label on someone like Steve Austin either. He could wrestle circles around guys. As time went on, his style changed, his gimmicks changed, his matches changed, etc. Matt Morgan was a nobody in WWE, but went to TNA and improved his mic-work and improved his in-ring abilities. His matches are some of the brighter spots of TNA shows (not even going to throw a TNA joke in there either). Cody Rhodes looked like a lower card guy who'd stick around because of being a Runnels. He's improved tremendously for having being held down in the WWE system...:thumbsdow For all the good things people say about RVD, I just don't see it. And his laziness stopped his true potential from being reached.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

JBL must be better than RVD too lol. just because he somehow became the face of WWE at one point

edit: i'd rather watch rey mysterio vs psychosis in ECW than any rey mysterio fight in WWE btw

[Doors Allan Coe]

You really don't see how someone like Flair, Bret, or Undertaker has changed over time? RVD has changed and/or improved literally absolutely nothing.

I thought you didn't watch TNA or WWE anymore? How do you know if someone has changed, or if someone is good or not, or repetitive or not?

Are you kidding? Flair has been wooing, struting, doing the figure four, and falling on his face for DECADES!

I'm not trying to compare RVD in TNA to Owen Hart. I'm comparing RVDs best to Harts best...


Listen to a Cena promo. It's not good. Watch a Cena match. He can't sell. I completely understand the way he's being used and doing what is asked of him/who his audience is. If you can't see past that into the type of talent that is or isn't there, I don't know what to tell you. I guess Cena is by default a brawler, no? You know who was a fantastic brawler? Steve Austin. Cena would never be able to work a good match from his end with SCSA because he's not talented enough, and the match would only go as far as Austin could carry it. Watch all of Cena's WM main events. There is one remotely good one, and it's because of his opponent carrying him to it (HBK).


I'm not a Cena advocate but he's no worse than Hogan. It is what it is, but Cenas got it. It's not like he fucking Bobby Lashley or something...


I am only able to reference the RVD match I enjoyed like that because it's all I can remember. I don't have a limitless knowledge and memory of wrestling matches and show history. When someone says, remember Bret/Owen in the cage, you just know. RVD has so few of those. The ONE I have of him is...that Jerry Lynn match with no time limit.

You can blame RVD for being watered down in WWE and in TNA. That's a rather cheap excuse if you ask me, though. If WWE people can evolve or improve themselves within that company, there's no reason RVD couldn't. He got lazy, as despite his WWE restrictions compared to his ECW limits, he never bothered to actually work.

That doesn't take away from his athleticism either, which I again never denied.

I just think you didn't really watch much ECW and/or RVD and you really don't understand how exciting his matches were for years. We can disagree. I'm pretty sure most actual workers would disagree with you too...

[Doors Allan Coe]

RVD is a stoner and possibly a scum bag. thats why he never moved up in those companies. but he busted his ass during ECW. and ECW caught the attention of WCW and WWF immediately... (Attitude, Extreme matches, gimmicks, and tons of wrestlers) Bret the Hitman Hart is a fucking superstar. Most definitely. Gotta love what they did in ECW though.

Did I miss something?

[Speilmen230]

And i thought i had a heated argument going on in the Movie Thread.

This shit is intense.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

Did I miss something?hahah i dont kno where the words scum bag came from i was just blabbering.. i just meant ppl like HHH werent hanging in south philly (im from the philly area.. not saying theyre all scum bags.. but theres potential)

[Speilmen230]

I respect RVD's in ring work. does it have a lot of spots? yeah it does, but he does them well. RVD had some really good in ring psychology in his matches, which is where i put him above guys like Jeff and Matt Hardy, & Dvon and Buh Buh Ray.

[BotheDMBFan]

RVD is a stoner and possibly a scum bag. thats why he never moved up in those companies. but he busted his ass during ECW. and ECW caught the attention of WCW and WWF immediately... (Attitude, Extreme matches, gimmicks, and tons of wrestlers) Bret the Hitman Hart is a fucking superstar. Most definitely. Gotta love what they did in ECW though.

RVD moved up in the companies, he just got way way way worse.

[Doors Allan Coe]

And by no means am I trying to slap a label on someone like Steve Austin either. He could wrestle circles around guys. As time went on, his style changed, his gimmicks changed, his matches changed, etc. Matt Morgan was a nobody in WWE, but went to TNA and improved his mic-work and improved his in-ring abilities. His matches are some of the brighter spots of TNA shows (not even going to throw a TNA joke in there either). Cody Rhodes looked like a lower card guy who'd stick around because of being a Runnels. He's improved tremendously for having being held down in the WWE system...:thumbsdow For all the good things people say about RVD, I just don't see it. And his laziness stopped his true potential from being reached.

You just don't get it.

RVD killed himself in the 90's. He payed his dues. He is wrestling to make money and not hurt himself. It's a business man. To hold it against RVD that he's smart enough to realize he doesn't need to kill himself anymore is ignorant.

RVD was a talented wrestler. He still can go when he has to. You're degrading a guy who did well in every promotions he has worked in. You just need to step back and realize this guy is a human being. He brutalized his body for years. At this point he's collecting money and playing it safe. TNA Impact isn't Wrestlemania... this guy accomplished all his goals... what does he have to prove?

[kittensXLI]

Are you kidding? Flair has been wooing, struting, doing the figure four, and falling on his face for DECADES!

I'm not trying to compare RVD in TNA to Owen Hart. I'm comparing RVDs best to Harts best...



I'm not a Cena advocate but he's no worse than Hogan. It is what it is, but Cenas got it. It's not like he fucking Bobby Lashley or something...



I just think you didn't really watch much ECW and/or RVD and you really don't understand how exciting his matches were for years. We can disagree. I'm pretty sure most actual workers would disagree with you too...
I'm not comparing RVD in TNA or Owen whatsoever. I'm saying that for someone who doesn't watch TNA or WWE often if at all anymore, how would you know if someone is/isn't repetitive or improving?

And again, I understand why Cena the product is the way it is. I'm talking about Cena the talent now too. The Rock over-sold like heck. But his speaking and his charisma picked up the slack. Cena can't wrestle, yells through his promos, and his charisma is essentially his strong build/size/muscles. Being a jacked SuperCena doesn't make up for his lowlights, to me at least. RVD's athleticism only goes/went so far for me.

I got in WWF on my own, but it was a friend who lived next door that introduced me to ECW. ECW was never my prime means of wrestling, and I was a pre-teen/teen back then so I was definitely getting different things out of it than someone that's 20+ years old or 30+ years old would. However, even going back now x amount of years later and seeing things like RVD's ECW work, I still am not buying into what he offered and what people say about him. I'm glad you like RVD. A lot of people do. He's just someone I have zero desire to ever see or see again and got/get nothing from his work.

[Doors Allan Coe]

And i thought i had a heated argument going on in the Movie Thread.

This shit is intense.

I've just never heard of somebody with such disdain for The Whole FUCKIN Show. RVD must have burned Kittens on a bag of weed or something.

[Speilmen230]

I'm not comparing RVD in TNA or Owen whatsoever. I'm saying that for someone who doesn't watch TNA or WWE often if at all anymore, how would you know if someone is/isn't repetitive or improving?

And again, I understand why Cena the product is the way it is. I'm talking about Cena the talent now too. The Rock over-sold like heck. But his speaking and his charisma picked up the slack. Cena can't wrestle, yells through his promos, and his charisma is essentially his strong build/size/muscles. Being a jacked SuperCena doesn't make up for his lowlights, to me at least. RVD's athleticism only goes/went so far for me.

I got in WWF on my own, but it was a friend who lived next door that introduced me to ECW. ECW was never my prime means of wrestling, and I was a pre-teen/teen back then so I was definitely getting different things out of it than someone that's 20+ years old or 30+ years old would. However, even going back now x amount of years later and seeing things like RVD's ECW work, I still am not buying into what he offered and what people say about him. I'm glad you like RVD. A lot of people do. He's just someone I have zero desire to ever see or see again and got/get nothing from his work.

This is alot better than saying he just isn't good in the ring.

[Doors Allan Coe]

I'm not comparing RVD in TNA or Owen whatsoever. I'm saying that for someone who doesn't watch TNA or WWE often if at all anymore, how would you know if someone is/isn't repetitive or improving?

And again, I understand why Cena the product is the way it is. I'm talking about Cena the talent now too. The Rock over-sold like heck. But his speaking and his charisma picked up the slack. Cena can't wrestle, yells through his promos, and his charisma is essentially his strong build/size/muscles. Being a jacked SuperCena doesn't make up for his lowlights, to me at least. RVD's athleticism only goes/went so far for me.

I got in WWF on my own, but it was a friend who lived next door that introduced me to ECW. ECW was never my prime means of wrestling, and I was a pre-teen/teen back then so I was definitely getting different things out of it than someone that's 20+ years old or 30+ years old would. However, even going back now x amount of years later and seeing things like RVD's ECW work, I still am not buying into what he offered and what people say about him. I'm glad you like RVD. A lot of people do. He's just someone I have zero desire to ever see or see again and got/get nothing from his work.

Different Strokes for different folks.

You don't have to buy into him. The entire wrestling world did. He's a star man. He worked his ass off and made it to the top. If you can't have respect for that I don't know what is important to you...

RVD doesn't need to improve. He's an old fart now. He's making money.

[Speilmen230]

Which title do you guys like better?

The original design: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/TNA_World_Heavyweight_Championship.JPG

The new design: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/TNA_World_Title_Belt.jpg

[kittensXLI]

You just don't get it.

RVD killed himself in the 90's. He payed his dues. He is wrestling to make money and not hurt himself. It's a business man. To hold it against RVD that he's smart enough to realize he doesn't need to kill himself anymore is ignorant.

RVD was a talented wrestler. He still can go when he has to. You're degrading a guy who did well in every promotions he has worked in. You just need to step back and realize this guy is a human being. He brutalized his body for years. At this point he's collecting money and playing it safe. TNA Impact isn't Wrestlemania... this guy accomplished all his goals... what does he have to prove?
Are you RVD? I don't know where you get the things you pull out of my posts from.

Good for RVD for killing himself in the 90's. I don't care for spot monkeys, and if he's hurt himself hitting his high spots and bumps, good or bad, that's on him. It doesn't appeal to me much, and that's what I've pulled out of the strong majority of his work, therefor I don't care for him.

I'm not saying and never said he needs to kill himself, especially at this point of his life and career. But if he did, it wouldn't make me like him any more. I don't need the spots and the risk and the pain. I just don't care to see someone who's never bothered to actually improve or evolve phone it in even on weekly or monthly shows.

CM Punk for example. Reports are he's burntout, on top of the entire usage ordeal. Chris Jericho too, stepping away when the effort was dipping and the burntout feeling was there. Would I be bummed to not see CM Punk on Raw every week or at a PPV every month? Absolutely, and for a lot of reasons. But if his mind isn't in it and his effort isn't what it could or should be, then they should take time off. they deserve to take time off. Don't get sloppy or lazy, just step away. RVD got lazy man. He goes out there and goes through the motions, which is extra worse of a product I'd prefer.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

Am I the only person in here that appreciates Hulkamania and ignores anything negative about the Hulkster? Just curious. I always hear people bash Hulk Hogan. The man was my hero when I was a little kid. lol.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

Which title do you guys like better?

The original design: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/TNA_World_Heavyweight_Championship.JPG

The new design: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/TNA_World_Title_Belt.jpgdefinitely the old design... i hate the WWE title belt too.

[Speilmen230]

I gotta say the old design just looks way better. I like it better than either of the current WWE titles. I has a new school look, with an old school feel.

[kittensXLI]

And i thought i had a heated argument going on in the Movie Thread.

This shit is intense.
Nah not intense. Just not "omg WWE sucks you guys are stupid TNA is better".

I've just never heard of somebody with such disdain for The Whole FUCKIN Show. RVD must have burned Kittens on a bag of weed or something.
He sucker punched me behind the arena in Philly and ran off with my cut.

This is alot better than saying he just isn't good in the ring.
Huh?

[BotheDMBFan]

Both of those titles suck.

[Speilmen230]

Nah not intense. Just not "omg WWE sucks you guys are stupid TNA is better".


He sucker punched me behind the arena in Philly and ran off with my cut.


Huh?

The way you were coming off earlier, you were sounding as if he had little to no talent, and AT BEST had 3.5 star matches.

There is a big difference between not liking someone's work and them not being talented.

[kittensXLI]

Am I the only person in here that appreciates Hulkamania and ignores anything negative about the Hulkster? Just curious. I always hear people bash Hulk Hogan. The man was my hero when I was a little kid. lol.
Nope. You are not alone. There's someone in this thread that's an expert of this mindset...

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

The way you were coming off earlier, you were sounding as if he had little to no talent, and AT BEST had 3.5 star matches.

There is a big difference between not liking someone's work and them not being talented.Good comment here. For example: I could never get an interest for watching HHH's matches. Mostly because of his pathetic gimmick when he entered the WWF.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Are you RVD? I don't know where you get the things you pull out of my posts from.

Good for RVD for killing himself in the 90's. I don't care for spot monkeys, and if he's hurt himself hitting his high spots and bumps, good or bad, that's on him. It doesn't appeal to me much, and that's what I've pulled out of the strong majority of his work, therefor I don't care for him.

I'm not saying and never said he needs to kill himself, especially at this point of his life and career. But if he did, it wouldn't make me like him any more. I don't need the spots and the risk and the pain. I just don't care to see someone who's never bothered to actually improve or evolve phone it in even on weekly or monthly shows.

CM Punk for example. Reports are he's burntout, on top of the entire usage ordeal. Chris Jericho too, stepping away when the effort was dipping and the burntout feeling was there. Would I be bummed to not see CM Punk on Raw every week or at a PPV every month? Absolutely, and for a lot of reasons. But if his mind isn't in it and his effort isn't what it could or should be, then they should take time off. they deserve to take time off. Don't get sloppy or lazy, just step away. RVD got lazy man. He goes out there and goes through the motions, which is extra worse of a product I'd prefer.

MARK ALERT!!! MARK ALERT!!! MARK ALERT!!

As a fan you can hate him because you think he got lazy.

But in reality he's 40 year old man who made a living being a hard hitting high flying wrestler. He headlined PPVs. He was popular where ever he worked. RVD doesn't need to evolve. RVD is RVD. Should they dress him up like a king? Should he change his gear? Should he come up with a new flip?

Your judging RVD like a snobby fan. You're not judging him for what he has accomplished and how he accomplished it. RVD came to TNA to make money. It's a business. You should try and separate fantasy and reality.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Good comment here. For example: I could never get an interest for watching HHH's matches. Mostly because of his pathetic gimmick when he entered the WWF.

I enjoyed most of HHHs stuff even into the 2000's. I started getting tired of him. So I stopped watching.

[kittensXLI]

MARK ALERT!!! MARK ALERT!!! MARK ALERT!!

As a fan you can hate him because you think he got lazy.

But in reality he's 40 year old man who made a living being a hard hitting high flying wrestler. He headlined PPVs. He was popular where ever he worked. RVD doesn't need to evolve. RVD is RVD. Should they dress him up like a king? Should he change his gear? Should he come up with a new flip?

Your judging RVD like a snobby fan. You're not judging him for what he has accomplished and how he accomplished it. RVD came to TNA to make money. It's a business. You should try and separate fantasy and reality.
Dude, it's not about just RVD in TNA/RVD the 40-year old. I still don't understand why you've been harping on something that isn't even being said.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Am I the only person in here that appreciates Hulkamania and ignores anything negative about the Hulkster? Just curious. I always hear people bash Hulk Hogan. The man was my hero when I was a little kid. lol.

Without Hulkamania most of us wouldn't even be talking about wrestling. How can you hate on that?

[K3nTaKa0s]

Hogan is the man. No doubt about it.

Did someone set off a Mark Alert? Hahahaha.

[Speilmen230]

Am I the only person in here that appreciates Hulkamania and ignores anything negative about the Hulkster? Just curious. I always hear people bash Hulk Hogan. The man was my hero when I was a little kid. lol.

Not a Hogan fan. I didn't grow up with him so i have no connection with him. To me. Cena=Hogan.

I was 7 years old when i fell in love with pro-wrestling. I was 7 in 1998. Naturally my childhood heroes consist of Austin, Rock, Undertaker, HBK, HHH.

I grew up in the attitude era, sneaking into the basement at night to watch Raw is War. (my bedtime was 8 pm when i was that young). Therefore i grew up with the notion that Faces were bad asses who did what they want and fought against the evil bosses while the Heels worked for the evil bosses.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

Without Hulkamania most of us wouldn't even be talking about wrestling. How can you hate on that?You're right. I just have such passionate feelings about the 80's and 90's. I hope it's not just because of my youth. I like to believe I really saw something special. More special than John Cena and Mike The Miz.

[kittensXLI]

While I strongly disagree Cena=Hogan, a Hogan fan calling someone a mark seems rather redundant.

[Doors Allan Coe]

You're right. I just have such passionate feelings about the 80's and 90's. I hope it's not just because of my youth. I like to believe I really saw something special. More special than John Cena and Mike The Miz.

Well, Cena is a lot of kids Hulk Hogan. Pro wrestling as we know it was built on the entertainer. At some point in my life I started to prefer wrestlers. But, most people got into wrestling because of the larger than life entertainment side.

[Speilmen230]

Cena is a modern day Hogan IMO. He always does things the right way, he never takes shortcuts, except for the duct tape, and his main audience is kids, and they were both the face of the company at their respective times.

so to me. Cena = Hogan

[Speilmen230]

Well, Cena is a lot of kids Hulk Hogan. Pro wrestling as we know it was built on the entertainer. At some point in my life I started to prefer wrestlers. But, most people got into wrestling because of the larger than life entertainment side.

Austin flippin the bird and drinking beer in the middle of the ring was the coolest thing i had ever seen. He was a real life action hero badass.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lod9lHX7Qp4

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

I'll admitt Cena is Hogan-like but thats all. The Hulkster and Steve Austin were the biggest names wrestling will ever see.

[Doors Allan Coe]

While I strongly disagree Cena=Hogan, a Hogan fan calling someone a mark seems rather redundant.

No.

A mark is somebody who doesn't like Hogan because the think he "can't" wrestle. They don't realize that Hogan helped build the business. They can't appreciate the fact that without him wrestling wouldn't be anything like it is today.

I'm a Hogan fan. I don't enjoy him now. But, I appreciate what he did.

I think the fact you seem to dislike Hogan, yet you suck off the WWE is laughable. It's like being racist and listening to rap music... You are the epitome of everything you claim to hate...

[kittensXLI]

Cena is a modern day Hogan IMO. He always does things the right way, he never takes shortcuts, except for the duct tape, and his main audience is kids, and they were both the face of the company at their respective times.

so to me. Cena = Hogan
Sure, but I mean more along the lines of Hogan being revolutionary. He's a legend for what he's done. Cena being similar won't and clearly doesn't get the same results. It appeals to it's target, which is the entire point, but Hogan was a different level, the top level. Cena pulling off the modern Hogan shouldn't be passable enough to say he's good. (not that you think Cena is good, but in general I mean)

[kittensXLI]

I'll admitt Cena is Hogan-like but thats all. The Hulkster and Steve Austin were the biggest names wrestling will ever see.
This. :thumbsup

No.

A mark is somebody who doesn't like Hogan because the think he "can't" wrestle. They don't realize that Hogan helped build the business. They can't appreciate the fact that without him wrestling wouldn't be anything like it is today.

I'm a Hogan fan. I don't enjoy him now. But, I appreciate what he did.

I think the fact you seem to dislike Hogan, yet you suck off the WWE is laughable. It's like being racist and listening to rap music... You are the epitome of everything you claim to hate...
LOL WHAT. You have to be trolling me.

[Speilmen230]

I almost never watch any hogan matches, ever. I just don't find him to be entertaining in the ring. He is predictable and boring to me. BUT i do respect the fact that we wouldn't be posting in this thread without him (or vince).

Edit: Cena is A LOT like hogan. I'm not saying Cena is revolutionary, but i am saying that he is a modern day Hogan.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

I'm going to change the subject a bit. Around the time I stopped watching wrestling religiously, it seemed like the amount of wrestlers became limited. I notice most of them are still on Vince's payroll.. but the matchups all seemed the same every week. Edge, Cena, HHH, ehh i dunno.. Once upon a time it seemed like there were so many more wrestlers involved.

[BotheDMBFan]

I hate Hogan except when I watch him being the real Hulk Hogan in the ring. Not this TNA shit.

[kittensXLI]

I'm going to change the subject a bit. Around the time I stopped watching wrestling religiously, it seemed like the amount of wrestlers became limited. I notice most of them are still on Vince's payroll.. but the matchups all seemed the same every week. Edge, Cena, HHH, ehh i dunno.. Once upon a time it seemed like there were so many more wrestlers involved.
If you recall, or re-watch, WWF from like 1997, there were a dozen guys all feuding with each other. Sid had the title, feuding with Undertaker, who feuded with HBK, who feuded with Bret Hart, who feuded with Steve Austin, who feuded with Owen Hart, who was tagging with Bulldog, all of which had matches with Vader, Mankind, etc. It wasn't just Cena/Miz, Cena/Orton, Orton/Punk like is it now.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Has TNA announced anything concrete in regards to re-branding the company?

[Speilmen230]

I'm going to change the subject a bit. Around the time I stopped watching wrestling religiously, it seemed like the amount of wrestlers became limited. I notice most of them are still on Vince's payroll.. but the matchups all seemed the same every week. Edge, Cena, HHH, ehh i dunno.. Once upon a time it seemed like there were so many more wrestlers involved.

Part of the problem is that the title didn't change hands enough. it was the villain of the month vs Cena.

From April 3, 2005 to October 2, 2007, there was a total of 980 days.

739 of those days, Cena was the WWE Champion.

These were his respective reign lengths. 280 days, 133 days, & 380 days.

Here are the other reigns in between those: Edge for 21 days, Rob Van Dam for 22 days, & Edge for 76 days.

And the only reason Cena's 380 day reign was ended is because he tore his pectoral muscle. Because he did that Randy Orton was given his second Championship reign for 203 days and then HHH was given his 7th WWE Championship reign for 210 days.

God only knows how much longer cena was going to hold the title if he didn't get injured.

[Doors Allan Coe]

And the only reason Cena's 380 day reign was ended is because he tore his pectoral muscle. Because he did that Randy Orton was given his second Championship reign for 203 days and then HHH was given his 7th WWE Championship reign for 210 days.

God only knows how much longer cena was going to hold the title if he didn't get injured.

I honestly popped for his surprise return at the Royal Rumble that year. I was so sick of HHH I was excited for Cena to throw him over the top. For some reason I didn't see Cenas return coming. I though he wouldnt be back for months.

[kittensXLI]

I honestly popped for his surprise return at the Royal Rumble that year. I was so sick of HHH I was excited for Cena to throw him over the top. For some reason I didn't see Cenas return coming. I though he wouldnt be back for months.
To my knowledge, no one really did. He was kept under wraps like none other.

[Speilmen230]

I unfortunately stopped watching in 2007 because i was soooo sick of Cena. I didn't get back into it until 2009ish. So i missed HHH and Randy Orton's last great championship runs

[K3nTaKa0s]

Has TNA announced anything concrete in regards to re-branding the company?

Nope. Just some sites reporting that they trademarked Impact Wrestling.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

If you recall, or re-watch, WWF from like 1997, there were a dozen guys all feuding with each other. Sid had the title, feuding with Undertaker, who feuded with HBK, who feuded with Bret Hart, who feuded with Steve Austin, who feuded with Owen Hart, who was tagging with Bulldog, all of which had matches with Vader, Mankind, etc. It wasn't just Cena/Miz, Cena/Orton, Orton/Punk like is it now.You're absolutely right. Once Gorilla Monsoon passed... Vince knew it was ok to turn this into strictly getting money lol. Just speculating here....

Part of the problem is that the title didn't change hands enough. it was the villain of the month vs Cena.

From April 3, 2005 to October 2, 2007, there was a total of 980 days.

739 of those days, Cena was the WWE Champion.

These were his respective reign lengths. 280 days, 133 days, & 380 days.

Here are the other reigns in between those: Edge for 21 days, Rob Van Dam for 22 days, & Edge for 76 days.

And the only reason Cena's 380 day reign was ended is because he tore his pectoral muscle. Because he did that Randy Orton was given his second Championship reign for 203 days and then HHH was given his 7th WWE Championship reign for 210 days.

God only knows how much longer cena was going to hold the title if he didn't get injured.The sad thing about the Randy Orton part is... I think he's just now becoming great. And he's had the title a few times lol.


Agree though? Randy Orton has been fuckin awesome lately.

[kittensXLI]

Randy Orton was fantastic as The Legend Killer. The Viper is terrible, I think.

[Speilmen230]

You're absolutely right. Once Gorilla Monsoon passed... Vince knew it was ok to turn this into strictly getting money lol. Just speculating here....

The sad thing about the Randy Orton part is... I think he's just now becoming great. And he's had the title a few times lol.


Agree though? Randy Orton has been fuckin awesome lately.

Orton's gimmick is really really stale. The viper gimmick was cool last November when he was at his peak and was the WWE Champion, but at this point he needs to either Merge the Viper and Legend Killer together or come out with a whole new gimmick.

[Speilmen230]

Miss Tessmacher is sooo sexy. Yes i am flipping between TNA and the Draft.

[Speilmen230]

This segment is sooo terrible.

[Speilmen230]

this segment has been going on for 14 minutes... good lord.

[Speilmen230]

I wonder if they are shtting out this episode because they know the NFL Draft is on along with NBA Playoffs.

Because this just fucking awful.

LAX was a way better mexican stable.

[Speilmen230]

Tazz is so fucking terrible at commentary.

[Speilmen230]

Scott Steiner is an embarrassment to the english language.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

i'd rather see Taz in the ring, he was fuckin bad ass:thumbsup his commentary pisses me off sometimes

[kittensXLI]

Jericho is so awesome : http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/video-chris-jerichos-appearance-on-jimmy-kimmel-live-129127

Especially the very, very end.

[jackisback24]

Kittens likes 3 ways!

[kittensXLI]

Kittens likes 3 ways!
haha I don't get it.

[jackisback24]

haha I don't get it.
Hogan announced it while we were posting.

I forgot Mickie was in TNA.

Can't believe January Jones is pregnant!

[GrooGrux420]

WTF? Hogan was in town yesterday. Wish I would have known, I would have tried to head down the National Spicy Chicken Taste Test.

Okay who am I kidding, but seriously that has to be the most random thing ever.

In related news, Church's beat Popeye's.

[kittensXLI]

Epic episode #11 : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9-Gu6NhNQE

[Rodey]

omg Kittens, epic avatar. :lol:lol:lol

[Doors Allan Coe]

omg Kittens, epic avatar. :lol:lol:lol

who is that???

[Rodey]

who is that???

Zack Ryder.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Zack Ryder.

Yeah, I'm out of the loop.

I thought Romeo Roselli and Rob "E"ckos had a bastard son together...

[jackisback24]

Zack Ryder.
what's the hype for Zack Ryder on the underground?

[Rodey]

Yeah, I'm out of the loop.

I thought Romeo Roselli and Rob "E"ckos had a bastard son together...

:lol

Ryder is a lot better than Robbie E. He rarely gets air time on Raw, but he used to get quite a bit of time on Superstars and was awesome. He's hilarious on the mic and really underrated in the ring. He'd be a good fit for the US title, but apparently the 'E doesn't see it the same way unfortunately.

[Doors Allan Coe]

:lol

Ryder is a lot better than Robbie E. He rarely gets air time on Raw, but he used to get quite a bit of time on Superstars and was awesome. He's hilarious on the mic and really underrated in the ring. He'd be a good fit for the US title, but apparently the 'E doesn't see it the same way unfortunately.

Must have not been selling t-shirts and action figures...

[kittensXLI]

Must have not been selling t-shirts and action figures...
Actually his t-shirt is consistently sold out on wweshop.com. They have no other merchandise for him despite him pushing for things like his character's headbands, etc. If there's one good thing in his untapped potential, it's the fact he's only 25 and will eventually get his due as long as he continues at the pace of improvement he's going.

[kittensXLI]

omg Kittens, epic avatar. :lol:lol:lol
Did you watch episode 11 of ZTLIS? Have you seen all of them, for that matter?

[Rodey]

Did you watch episode 11 of ZTLIS? Have you seen all of them, for that matter?

I've seen the first couple. I had no idea it was up to 11 though. :lol

He used to post videos of him singing in the car to his theme song and to other pop hits. It was awesome.

[kittensXLI]

I've seen the first couple. I had no idea it was up to 11 though. :lol

He used to post videos of him singing in the car to his theme song and to other pop hits. It was awesome.
PLEASE go watch all 1 through 11. The first 2 or 3 were meh, but he's picked up phenomenally ever since. I think he does it once a week, typically posting the new one on Wednesday or Thursdays.

http://www.youtube.com/user/LongIslandIcedZ

Doors Allan Coe would appreciate his type of humor.

[kittensXLI]

I used to hate Zack Ryder, but his charisma just reeled me in. The guy oozes with potential. I don't even care if he's not like the path so many guys go down these days where they win a bunch of titles and get burned out by the time they're 32. Ryder is 25 with a massively high ceiling.

[bigeyefish22]

Can I ask what the draw is to following wrestling? No sarcasm, I'm asking honestly.

[Doors Allan Coe]

Can I ask what the draw is to following wrestling? No sarcasm, I'm asking honestly.

Nothing really.

WWE is for children. TNA is for nobody.

I turn wrestling on and cringe. It's corny, trashy, and flat out idiotic.

Why? What about sweaty, greased up men in spandex tights, fake fighting each other doesn't seem appealing you?

[bradshaw06]

Can I ask what the draw is to following wrestling? No sarcasm, I'm asking honestly.

I dont really follow wrestling much anymore, but what is the draw to following baseball, or football or any other sport or television program.

[kittensXLI]

Entertainment.

[JacobLovesYou]

to be entertained

[Rodey]

I used to hate Zack Ryder, but his charisma just reeled me in. The guy oozes with potential. I don't even care if he's not like the path so many guys go down these days where they win a bunch of titles and get burned out by the time they're 32. Ryder is 25 with a massively high ceiling.

I tried telling you this from the get-go! He's awesome. The 'E is stupid for not cashing in on the gimmick while it's still relevant too. Like you said, his charisma is just amazing and his ring work is solid all the way around as well. I love his two finishers.

[kittensXLI]

I tried telling you this from the get-go! He's awesome. The 'E is stupid for not cashing in on the gimmick while it's still relevant too. Like you said, his charisma is just amazing and his ring work is solid all the way around as well. I love his two finishers.
Not even gimmick-wise, he's just such a unique worker.

[kittensXLI]

to be entertained
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsqJFIJ5lLs

[Rodey]

:lol:lol:lol:lol

I just watched episode 11. "Oh my God dad what are you doing?! The shake weight?! Nooooo not the shake weight!"

[kittensXLI]

:lol:lol:lol:lol

I just watched episode 11. "Oh my God dad what are you doing?! The shake weight?! Nooooo not the shake weight!"
I love that he carries even the smallest subtle inside jokes throughout every episode. Which makes watching from the beginning even better.

[comerelaxnow]

I love when even the wrestlers are entertained....watch Scott Hall

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4O-wDli0S4&feature=related

[kittensXLI]

what's up, zack pack?
sample, part 2
woo woo woo you know it
party in the L.I.
here we go

hopped off the plane at LGA,
with a dream and a really good tan
welcome to the land of hott guidettes
woo
i got them all sweatin'

jumped in the cab
here i am for a fun time
look to my right and i see the jones beach sign
this is all so crazy
everybody knows i'm famous

my tummy's ripped,
and my hair is looking pretty sick
one-legged pants and i'm shirtless
told everything i know from the radio
and the zack ryder song was on
and the zack ryder song was on
and the zack ryder song was on

so i popped my collar up
they're playing my song
i'm zack, that ain't a lie
pumpin' my fist like woo
blowin' a kiss like woo

i got my collar popped
they're playing my song
some girl just touched my tri
woo woo woo you know it
it's a party in the L.I.
woo woo woo you know it
it's a party in the L.I.

[Crush086]

I thought Ryder's attire was ridiculous when he had the one pant leg, but overall his character solid. I'm actually kinda surprised he doesn't get airtime, but Santino does.

[kittensXLI]

I thought Ryder's attire was ridiculous when he had the one pant leg, but overall his character solid. I'm actually kinda surprised he doesn't get airtime, but Santino does.
Same, but now he has regular tights.

[Rodey]

What are you guys talking about? The one legged pants were awesome. :lol

[Crush086]

Same, but now he has regular tights.
I wouldn't mind seeing him more. He's gotta be better than this Cole/JR/Lawler crap that they've jumped the shark on.

[K3nTaKa0s]

It's a shame I can't post in other threads on here without having to hear something about TNA.

[jcomey]

It's a shame I can't post in other threads on here without having to hear something about TNA.

It's a shame you're too sensitive. Seriously, it was a one-off joke. Get over yourself.

[kittensXLI]

EPIC Steve Austin : http://www.twitvid.com/F8G2H

[jcomey]

Oh my God. Wow. Fantastic.

[kittensXLI]

RUMORED :
United States Championship
Kofi Kingston versus Sheamus (c)

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cody Rhodes versus Rey Mysterio

Loser Leaves WWE : No Count-Out, No Disqualification Match
Michelle McCool versus Layla

Country Whipping Match
Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross versus Michael Cole & Jack Swagger

Last Man Standing Match
CM Punk versus Randy Orton

World Heavyweight Championship
Ladder Match
Christian versus Alberto Del Rio

WWE Championship
Steel Cage Match
John Morrison versus John Cena versus The Miz (c)

[clayj41]

EPIC Steve Austin : http://www.twitvid.com/F8G2H

That is the greatest video in the history of videos.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Sheamus
Cody Rhodes
Layla
Lawler/Ross
Randy Orton
Christian
The Miz

[jackisback24]

Michelle McCool is leaving.

[BotheDMBFan]

http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/vince-mcmahon-asked-if-he-would-ever-buy-tna-wrestling-129179

[JacobLovesYou]

RUMORED :
United States Championship
Kofi Kingston versus Sheamus (c)

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cody Rhodes versus Rey Mysterio

Loser Leaves WWE : No Count-Out, No Disqualification Match
Michelle McCool versus Layla

Country Whipping Match
Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross versus Michael Cole & Jack Swagger

Last Man Standing Match
CM Punk versus Randy Orton

World Heavyweight Championship
Ladder Match
Christian versus Alberto Del Rio

WWE Championship
Steel Cage Match
John Morrison versus John Cena versus The Miz (c)

Sheamus
Rey Mysterio
McCool
Lawler & Ross
CM Punk
Christian
The Miz

[BotheDMBFan]

Kofi
Rey
Layla
Lawler & Ross
CM Punk
Christian
John Cena

[kittensXLI]

RUMORED :
United States Championship
Kofi Kingston versus Sheamus (c)

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cody Rhodes versus Rey Mysterio

Loser Leaves WWE : No Count-Out, No Disqualification Match
Michelle McCool versus Layla

Country Whipping Match
Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross versus Michael Cole & Jack Swagger

Last Man Standing Match
CM Punk versus Randy Orton

World Heavyweight Championship
Ladder Match
Christian versus Alberto Del Rio

WWE Championship
Steel Cage Match
John Morrison versus John Cena versus The Miz (c)
Obviously if the rumored match is altered or not even existent, it won't count for the picks. But at least 1 match is figured to be added between now and the PPV, so took a shot with that guess.

EDIT - Also, previous PPV results :
WrestleMania 27 final standings :

4-4 Rodey
4-4 kittens
4-4 GrooGrux420
4-4 davidhamrick10
4-4 hbktony
4-4 Bo
4-4 JacobLovesYou
4-4 antsmarching41

3-5 Speilman

2-6 K3nta

[JacobLovesYou]

i hope they don't shit on sheamus and take away his belt. however... maybe they're going to take it away because he's going to get another main event push on SD....

EDIT: and the reason i say "shit on" is because he got bumped from WM. i figure he'll get added to this card and win because he didn't get to wrestle at WM. but the above scenario makes sense too

[davidhamrick10]

sheamus
rhodes
layla
king and JR
orton
christian
miz

[JacobLovesYou]

to k3n: i clicked on a few random pages in this thread from a few years back and it seems you used to be more positive about WWE at the time. certainly not enthusiastic, but much closer to the level most of us are at in this thread. what happened?

[JacobLovesYou]

and i'm not trying to start shit. i'm genuinely interested. most of us feel like WWE has been better in the past year than it has been for awhile.

[K3nTaKa0s]

I found an alternative.

[comerelaxnow]

A show called WWE's Rejects: Drug addicts and has beens.

j/k

[JacobLovesYou]

so you didn't watch TNA until recently?

[K3nTaKa0s]

so you didn't watch TNA until recently?

January 2010.

[JacobLovesYou]

January 2010.
H'm I didn't know that. I can't DVR it right now cause I have too much other stuff on Thurs, but as soon as June hits I'm gunna record Impact just so I can see what's going on/skip around to things I like etc.

[K3nTaKa0s]

Is anyone on here excited for Extreme Rules? There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of interest in this show. That may have something to do with the limited hype.

[JacobLovesYou]

I'm going to a bar that'll have it on every TV. I'm excited cause its the first non WM PPV that I'll have watched (not counting sporadic streams) in literally 9 years. I stopped watching from 02-08, but caught most of the WM in that period at a friends house. I'm excited to see what WWE has to offer for the first ppv of the new year. Not excited as in I think its gunna be great, but in a way that I get to see what's good/bad/missed the mark.

[kittensXLI]

I'm going to a bar that'll have it on every TV. I'm excited cause its the first non WM PPV that I'll have watched (not counting sporadic streams) in literally 9 years. I stopped watching from 02-08, but caught most of the WM in that period at a friends house. I'm excited to see what WWE has to offer for the first ppv of the new year. Not excited as in I think its gunna be great, but in a way that I get to see what's good/bad/missed the mark.
:thumbsup Sounds like a good time. It should be a good PPV.

[BotheDMBFan]

I'm not terribly hyped for Extreme Rules, but I'll still watch it. Kittens, remind me 15 minutes before it's on via teh text.

[kittensXLI]

I'm not terribly hyped for Extreme Rules, but I'll still watch it. Kittens, remind me 15 minutes before it's on via teh text.
I'm pretty excited. Looks to be the end of a lot of feuds. Interested in seeing where Rhodes and Morrison go from here too.

[BotheDMBFan]

I think they're bringing Morrison in essentially to be a spot monkey, and have Cena nab the win.

[kittensXLI]

I think they're bringing Morrison in essentially to be a spot monkey, and have Cena nab the win.
Oh there's no way he wins. I just want to see what happens with him.

What gets accomplished by a Cena win?

[BotheDMBFan]

You can have Punk feud with him and win the title?

[kittensXLI]

You can have Punk feud with him and win the title?
Would they use Cena transitionally like that?

[Rodey]

RUMORED :
United States Championship
Kofi Kingston versus Sheamus (c)

Falls Count Anywhere Match
Cody Rhodes versus Rey Mysterio

Loser Leaves WWE : No Count-Out, No Disqualification Match
Michelle McCool versus Layla

Country Whipping Match
Jerry Lawler & Jim Ross versus Michael Cole & Jack Swagger

Last Man Standing Match
CM Punk versus Randy Orton

World Heavyweight Championship
Ladder Match
Christian versus Alberto Del Rio

WWE Championship
Steel Cage Match
John Morrison versus John Cena versus The Miz (c)

[JacobLovesYou]

Sheamus
Rey Mysterio
Layla
Lawler & Ross
CM Punk
Christian
The Miz

i'm shit for brains, its layla that's going to win that match right? isn't mccool leaving or something? when i put her down it was because i was thinking about her leaving, not that she'd actually have to lose to leave... if that makes any sense?!

[BotheDMBFan]

Would they use Cena transitionally like that?

To keep Punk on, yes.

[JacobLovesYou]

and cena as a transitional champ sells more t-shirts then cena in a non-title feud.

[kittensXLI]

True I guess. I really don't want to see Miz lose the belt yet, but if it keeps Punk then I guess they have to.

[davidhamrick10]

What was the last heel v. heel match WWE put on for either title?

[BotheDMBFan]

Wrestling with Shadows ruled.

[JacobLovesYou]

yeah i want miz to keep the belt too

[kittensXLI]

So do you have Cena beat Morrison for the title, Punk attacks Cena after or calls him out the next night, then Miz feuds with Morrison for costing him the title?

[BotheDMBFan]

That would be awesome.