Stand Up Song Lengths and Official Tracklisting

[JimiThang1]

Circuit City has the song lengths and tracklisting up on their website:

http://entertainment.circuitcity.com/Music/Album.aspx?p_id=P++++19222&a_id=R+++738275&prodid=RCA68796.2

1.Dreamgirl - 4:01
2.Old Dirt Hill (Bring That Beat Back) - 4:58
3.Stand Up (For It) - 4:15
4.American Baby Intro - 2:03
5.American Baby - 4:35
6.Smooth Rider - 2:18
7.Everybody Wake Up (Our Finest Hour Arrives) - 4:17
8.Out of My Hands - 3:40
9.Hello Again - 3:52
10.Louisiana Bayou - 5:30
11.Stolen Away on 55th & 3rd - 4:16
12.You Might Die Trying - 4:44
13.Steady as We Go - 3:23
14.Hunger for the Great Light - 4:21

[jay41]

Awweesommmeee!!!!!!!!!!!!! I Love Stand Up!!!

[Kyle#41_7985]

awesome find. Man, Smooth Rider is dang short.

[dm40band]

ok let the bashing begin... oh wait, this is Everyday Part II!!!! give me a break!!!

[Mickey Carson]

I was hoping for an album with 14 tracks to be longer than 56:13

Glad to see that Out of my Hands is a full song though :)

[Kyle#41_7985]

it's interesting that the AB intro and Smooth Rider are pretty equal in length. I"m also glad that Old Dirt Hill is almost 5 minutes long.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Solid. An hour's worth of music is pretty good.

[Burnett]

Glad to see that Out of my Hands is a full song though :)

yeah! Will give me the chill.. sweet! :thumbsup :)

[detnelatnu]

Man. Those are kind of short.

[Mickey Carson]

Since the ED experience, Dave is definitely going for shorter and perhaps more "tight" songs than previous albums. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. It works for me on Some Devil and on parts of ED at least (I don't count Busted Stuff since its genesis occurred under Lillywhite and prior to Dave's songwriting with Ballard). Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01

[greenpepper7]

Since the ED experience, Dave is definitely going for shorter and perhaps more "tight" songs than previous albums. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. It works for me on Some Devil and on parts of ED at least (I don't count Busted Stuff since its genesis occurred under Lillywhite and prior to Dave's songwriting with Ballard). Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01

I think the SD tracks would have been longer if they were DMB songs, because often a lot of the length is used to showcase the band besides Dave Matthews. SD had short songs and was a Dave Matthews album, the same can arguably be said for ED... I hope the same won't be able to be said about SU (hopefully there will be some more jams such as the AB Jam)

[Hill1286]

i feel like they could be similar to the AB jam since that was just real short and sweet but obviously has so much live potential, and i bet that is what a lot of the other songs will be like.

[DomM41]

wish the songs or a song was a little longer, oh well, thats why the tour i suppose.. JAM IT UP

[road_designer]

So everyone was saying not to judge a song by a :40 clip. What about when 40 seconds is a THIRD of the entire song length, i.e. Smooth Rider. Why o why does this wonderful band want to cut thier songs short? So what if they are longer in concert. I won't have DMB in my back seat when I'm driving to and from work everyday.

[bdb23]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

[msb3079]

haha....

i used to be a sales manager at Circuit City

never thought theyd be the first to post tracklisting and times... it just makes me laugh

[luke7]

All short songs hmmm....

[msb3079]

but wait... 14 songs and LESS than an hour?? WTF??

i mean maybe it was doen perfectly... but looking at this... i don't know.
sometimes it is good to have the album versions short tho.

[jrock5730]

Thats a good find man, they are kinda short though, lets hope for the best.

[darbini]

sidenote: Stand Up, or as I like to call it Pud Nats, is #33 on Amazon sales ranking. American Baby is #16 on Adult Top 40

[crashintosabine]

So everyone was saying not to judge a song by a :40 clip. What about when 40 seconds is a THIRD of the entire song length, i.e. Smooth Rider. Why o why does this wonderful band want to cut thier songs short? So what if they are longer in concert. I won't have DMB in my back seat when I'm driving to and from work everyday.


:thumbsup Good point. If 1/3 of the song is a good enough sample to get a fair read on how the song is... :shrug

[EatSleepJeep]

More dread and despair.

[knucks32]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

i second that notion.

[jason41]

I can't imagine a 3:52 Hello Again, even the first early versions of it live weren't really jammed out and they were still over 5 minutes.

[2StepintoCrash]

Let's just accept that their work in the studio has become more tight and concise since Everyday. That is part of them getting better and growing as a band. Just because they are for the most part short compared to songs on BTCS and Crash, doesn't mean they aren't good. They are just more to the point and the arrangements are much tighter and I think that it sounds great for the studio. As far as them playing these songs live, I can almost guarantee that they WILL be jammed out much longer than the studio version. I like it and I'm sure that some of these songs will have a jam at the end. This is a good thing.

[2StepintoCrash]

I am very curious to see how it sounds being this short. But again, live will be a totally different story!

I can't imagine a 3:52 Hello Again, even the first early versions of it live weren't really jammed out and they were still over 5 minutes.

[2StepintoCrash]

Does this mean that Circuit City has received the album?

[goochylittlepig]

9.Hello Again - 3:52

nooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thanks for the info, tho! :thumbsup

[julio_havok]

Does this mean that Circuit City has received the album?

I was thinking the same thing...

[Nitro1515]

Since the ED experience, Dave is definitely going for shorter and perhaps more "tight" songs than previous albums. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. It works for me on Some Devil and on parts of ED at least (I don't count Busted Stuff since its genesis occurred under Lillywhite and prior to Dave's songwriting with Ballard). Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01
An average 4 minute song length no matter which way you spin it is not a good sign, the CD might still be good but I thought there was going to be more extended jams.

[goochylittlepig]

Since the ED experience, Dave is definitely going for shorter and perhaps more "tight" songs than previous albums. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. It works for me on Some Devil and on parts of ED at least (I don't count Busted Stuff since its genesis occurred under Lillywhite and prior to Dave's songwriting with Ballard). Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01

that's interesting to see, but im wondering if some of these SU tracks are supposed to be sort of segue/intro/outro songs. if so, its not necessarily accurate to count them as songs when comparing them to albums like crash with nothing like that

[elconguero]

gusters last album was like 45 minutes and i think its their best. sometimes to keep the flow going and keep the album cohesive it is good for it to be short. just about all of the beatles if not all were very short like that. it seems dmb will leave the jamming for the live shows. just think if you had never heard hello again and then you hear it live and dave does his lil intro vocal then when you think the song ends carter tears into a great solo and the band comes back in and sends it home blowing your hair back. while i would love to hear some of the jamming on the album i can understand the short tracks. it also makes me understand why sugar will was cut. maybe they didn't want to cut that song down cause they thought it would ruin it. i love that song because of the slow build up. i don't know. just an idea. although i think it would have been a great album closer. that or loving wings. is that song dead? i think it had some great lyrics

[goochylittlepig]

So what if they are longer in concert. I won't have DMB in my back seat when I'm driving to and from work everyday.
that's why god invented tapers

[Mickey Carson]

that's interesting to see, but im wondering if some of these SU tracks are supposed to be sort of segue/intro/outro songs. if so, its not necessarily accurate to count them as songs when comparing them to albums like crash with nothing like that
Well even without the AB intro, the average song length is 4:08 so it doesn't make that much of a difference. The average song length on BTCS would be about 7 minutes if I wouldn't have counted PNP so it's all relative.

[goochylittlepig]

I thought there was going to be more extended jams.
not to be rude, but based on what? from everything we've heard so far, i'd expect the songs to be structured a lot more like everyday songs as opposed to long btcs songs

[Nitro1515]

not to be rude, but based on what? from everything we've heard so far, i'd expect the songs to be structured a lot more like everyday songs as opposed to long btcs songsOne of the guys from the listening party said the album clocked in at 65 minutes so I think it is fair to say that you would expect some jamming if an album was that long, looks like he was wrong though.

[OCMarsh]

Well even without the AB intro, the average song length is 4:08 so it doesn't make that much of a difference. The average song length on BTCS would be about 7 minutes if I wouldn't have counted PNP so it's all relative.


I hope you aren't counting all the long pauses and little jams into the track length on BTCS. Spoon isn't an 8 minute song.



And another thing... I'm almost glad it's under an hour. That'll leave 20 minutes for me to put Joy Ride, Trouble With You and M/C Jam on my remix of the disc.:D

[Keith]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!
I know I was hoping that it would be a lot longer. Oh well, I still have a lot of good live versions of it!

[darbini]

I hope you aren't counting all the long pauses and little jams into the track length on BTCS. Spoon isn't an 8 minute song.



And another thing... I'm almost glad it's under an hour. That'll leave 20 minutes for me to put Joy Ride, Trouble With You and M/C Jam on my remix of the disc.:D


hahahaha exactly!! I put Help Myself with CRASH on a sidenote :hump

[Mickey Carson]

I hope you aren't counting all the long pauses and little jams into the track length on BTCS. Spoon isn't an 8 minute song.
I just went off of Circuit City's track times since that should be consistent between albums. And counting The Last Stop reprise doesn't effect the overall notion that average song lengths have decreased significantly over the last few albums of new material.

[OCMarsh]

hahahaha exactly!! I put Help Myself with CRASH on a sidenote :hump



*gasp*

Help Myself has to go on BTCS, it was recorded during that session!!! Just when I think you can't be any dumber, you go and totally redeem yourself.

[Mickey Carson]

*gasp*

Help Myself has to go on BTCS, it was recorded during that session!!! Just when I think you can't be any dumber, you go and totally redeem yourself.
True, but maybe he did that though when everybody thought that Help Myself WAS recorded during that session.

[pmag78]

Well you can think about it....fewer songs and longer track times or more tracks and shorter tracks. You know they will jam out all of them live, I'll take more new music anytime.

[Mickey Carson]

Well you can think about it....fewer songs and longer track times or more tracks and shorter tracks. You know they will jam out all of them live, I'll take more new music anytime.
Good way to look at it :thumbsup

[darbini]

Yeah I knew Help Myself was from BTCS, but it really flows fantastic on CRASH, it's a great song and I'm glad they played it at CP, definately under the radar kind of song, ala R&R

[goochylittlepig]

I know I was hoping that it would be a lot longer. Oh well, I still have a lot of good live versions of it!
good point. it could never have that same energy in the studio anyways. maybe if they tried, and made it 6 or 7 minutes, it'd just seem oddly placed on this album, or they wouldve left it off entirely

[goochylittlepig]

True, but maybe he did that though when everybody thought that Help Myself WAS recorded during that session.
um, i still thought that. it came out in 97 didnt it? someone enlighten me, im shocked and appalled i am this uninformed about something DMB :confused

[JUburton]

A taaaaad disappointing to see such short songs. As long as they mostly all open up live its ok with me.

[Mickey Carson]

um, i still thought that. it came out in 97 didnt it? someone enlighten me, im shocked and appalled i am this uninformed about something DMB :confused
http://www.antsmarching.org/tour/ViewShow.php?ShowID=2536

EDIT: Help Myself was recorded during the BTCS sessions but not the Crash sessions, although it was long thought to be recorded during the Crash sessions.

[jonniedmb]

its might be immature of me but.. while i find it pretty reliable.. im not buying into circutcity being the first place to post song lenghts.. when a more reliable source comes out ill shed a tear for smooth rider if need be.. but until then im not buying those lengths.. not yet.. :violent

[Nitro1515]

I'm really getting tired of hearing people say "Oh well I'm sure they will be longer and better live." If a song sucks in the studio it is going to suck live. Did any of the ED songs get any better in a live setting? I don't think so, if anything they got worse because it didn't have all the production effects behind them.

[jonniedmb]

I'm really getting tired of hearing people say "Oh well I'm sure they will be longer and better live." If a song sucks in the studio it is going to suck live. Did any of the ED songs get any better in a live setting? I don't think so, if anything they got worse because it didn't have all the production effects behind them.

actually.. everyday got kick ass live.. but besides that so right, what you are and fool to think do the trick for me live.. ED songs usually calm me down when i get to excited.. a nice little break between kick ass songs.. and SR and FTT are good listens in my opinion..

[OCMarsh]

Did any of the ED songs get any better in a live setting?

:ugh

How about Everyday and What You Are?

[darbini]

You see, I think all the ED songs were better live with the one exception being Angel. The songs didn't have the same effects and such as the album did, but I think that is why they were better live. They adapted!

[road_designer]

I'm really getting tired of hearing people say "Oh well I'm sure they will be longer and better live." If a song sucks in the studio it is going to suck live. Did any of the ED songs get any better in a live setting? I don't think so, if anything they got worse because it didn't have all the production effects behind them.

:thumbsup good point. I think people are just trying to come up with anything positive about this new album, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[darbini]

the think the glass is definately half full when it comes to this album

[Nitro1515]

To each his own, I just don't like Everyday at all except for the song Everyday because they still kept a little of that #36 vibe in it.

[Nitro1515]

:thumbsup good point. I think people are just trying to come up with anything positive about this new album, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.Thanks, I think your right, that is peoples way of coping if they don't like the studio cuts of these tracks. I just don't see what they can do to a song on the road that will make you fall in love with it if you already don't like it on the album.

[road_designer]

Thanks, I think your right, that is peoples way of coping if they don't like the studio cuts of these tracks. I just don't see what they can do to a song on the road that will make you fall in love with it if you already don't like it on the album.

Plus, what did they do with American Baby in concert? Nothing. Granted, that was the first few times they played it live but that would also mean that all the new songs will not be jammed out the first few times. Unfortunately, I think DMB has lost the desire to jam and so what you get on CD you most likely will get in concert, or something close to it.

[Nitro1515]

Plus, what did they do with American Baby in concert? Nothing. Granted, that was the first few times they played it live but that would also mean that all the new songs will not be jammed out the first few times. Unfortunately, I think DMB has lost the desire to jam and so what you get on CD you most likely will get in concert, or something close to it.
Very true. I mean I hope they do something cool with these songs live but like you said I don't see it happening. I just hope the CD is awesome so I don't have to worry about the live stuff anymore.

[2StepintoCrash]

shorter songs doesn't mean that the album will suck!

[bartender1162]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

agreed

[road_designer]

shorter songs doesn't mean that the album will suck!

It doesn't mean it will be good either and if you go by history this album is more comparable to ED than any others.

[JUburton]

Plus, what did they do with American Baby in concert? Nothing. Granted, that was the first few times they played it live but that would also mean that all the new songs will not be jammed out the first few times. Unfortunately, I think DMB has lost the desire to jam and so what you get on CD you most likely will get in concert, or something close to it.

I think you're wrong. Do you really think Hello Again will be trimmed down to under 4 minutes in concert? I doubt it and sure as hell hope not. The problem with ED was there was no room for jam sessions (thanks ballard!). I think Mark knows the talent of the guys quite a bit better and even if there aren't extended ones on the album (and how often are there?), I think they can still show up in concert.

[demoman1596]

I think you're wrong. Do you really think Hello Again will be trimmed down to under 4 minutes in concert? I doubt it and sure as hell hope not. The problem with ED was there was no room for jam sessions (thanks ballard!). I think Mark knows the talent of the guys quite a bit better and even if there aren't extended ones on the album (and how often are there?), I think they can still show up in concert.
They've played Hello Again in concert three times since the album was recorded. It has not been shortened.

[road_designer]

I think you're wrong. Do you really think Hello Again will be trimmed down to under 4 minutes in concert? I doubt it and sure as hell hope not. The problem with ED was there was no room for jam sessions (thanks ballard!). I think Mark knows the talent of the guys quite a bit better and even if there aren't extended ones on the album (and how often are there?), I think they can still show up in concert.

we both know Hello Again is the exception becuase it was a pre-Batson song. I hope you are right about leaving room to jam but how do you know? All you know is the clips you've heard.

[EatSleepJeep]

I think you're wrong. Do you really think Hello Again will be trimmed down to under 4 minutes in concert? I doubt it and sure as hell hope not. The problem with ED was there was no room for jam sessions (thanks ballard!). I think Mark knows the talent of the guys quite a bit better and even if there aren't extended ones on the album (and how often are there?), I think they can still show up in concert.


Look at Grey Street. Ever since it was recorded on an album it's been missing a verse and the building jammed ending is gone. Now the live version is pretty disabled compared to what it was before the studio.

[JUburton]

Well of course I don't know, but if all the songs stay album length they're going to have to lengthen their setlists a healthy bit to get the same time on stage as they usually do. I hope they don't start playing 22 or 23 songs that are shorter instead of the usually 18 or so. I guess we'll just have to wait until may 9th...or june 1st to find out. Here's hoping.

[Nitro1515]

Well of course I don't know, but if all the songs stay album length they're going to have to lengthen their setlists a healthy bit to get the same time on stage as they usually do. I hope they don't start playing 22 or 23 songs that are shorter instead of the usually 18 or so. I guess we'll just have to wait until may 9th...or june 1st to find out. Here's hoping.
Why would the have to lengthen the Stand Up songs in concert? Its not like they are just going to be play all the songs off the CD and go home.

[JUburton]

Well, typically he plays a third of a concert off the newest album, right? If 1/3 of your songs are 4-5 minutes, I think setlist length would suffer a bit.

[EatSleepJeep]

Well of course I don't know, but if all the songs stay album length they're going to have to lengthen their setlists a healthy bit to get the same time on stage as they usually do. I hope they don't start playing 22 or 23 songs that are shorter instead of the usually 18 or so. I guess we'll just have to wait until may 9th...or june 1st to find out. Here's hoping.


I see more, shorter songs being played; they're not going to have jams for all this new material. And let's be perfectly honest with ourselves, true 'jams' are all but extinct at DMB shows; they're planned and for the most part uniform from night to night.

[joepsu0985]

Stop the bitching people...please for once when news from the new album comes out...just stop...let it go...decide May 10th what you think.

[shoelessjoe910]

To really compare with previous albums, only BTCS can take the cake on LONG studio songs. Crash and UTTAD are relatively short albums as well. SMTS, Crash Into Me, Too Much, Let You Down, Billies....all the "same" lengths as the new ones. BOWA, WWYS, Satellite, Ants, PFWYG, and #34 are as well.

On a side note, for some people, like my fiance, a major complaint about DMB is that they drag on too long on songs.

[Erich]

On a side note, for some people, like my fiance, a major complaint about DMB is that they drag on too long on songs.

most people that listen to the radio think that (I dont know if your girlfriend does though), because their attention span has been conditioned to think 3:28 is a "long song".

[darbini]

And let's be perfectly honest with ourselves, true 'jams' are all but extinct at DMB shows; they're planned and for the most part uniform from night to night.


That's why they're not a jamband :monkey

I get to hear the new songs when they get to Florida, they should be nailing them/messin with them by then. Outros, intro, etc. I wonder what new cover DMB may debut this tour, if any.

[EatSleepJeep]

On a side note, for some people, like my fiance, a major complaint about DMB is that they drag on too long on songs.

:lol
I get these in the car from friends:
"Is this still the same song?"
"Does this song end?"

[Nitro1515]

:lol
I get these in the car from friends:
"Is this still the same song?"
"Does this song end?"
Haha same here

[OCMarsh]

most people that listen to the radio think that (I dont know if your girlfriend does though), because their attention span has been conditioned to think 3:28 is a "long song".


I was conditioned to think this way by years of listening to the 2 minute pop songs of the 60's. When I first listened to DMB the horrific length (read 5 minutes +) of the songs turned me off. A few songs still drag on too long for my taste.

[Mickey Carson]

I wonder what new cover DMB may debut this tour, if any.
Probably none. It's been a while since they've played a new cover during summer tours. In '03 the only new cover they played was Ring of Fire. Last year they played Super Freak but again it was just a one-time thing. Unless some artist that they like dies, we won't be hearing a new cover anytime soon.

[jonniedmb]

Look at Grey Street. Ever since it was recorded on an album it's been missing a verse and the building jammed ending is gone. Now the live version is pretty disabled compared to what it was before the studio.

is that a valid statement? considering the fact that the verse wasnt cut on BS?

[OCMarsh]

This reminds me of the conversation I had the other day. My brother was complaining that Free Bird is too long. I told him it's under 10 minutes and therefore is relatively short. He gave me an odd look.

[EatSleepJeep]

I was conditioned to think this way by years of listening to the 2 minute pop songs of the 60's. When I first listened to DMB the horrific length (read 5 minutes +) of the songs turned me off. A few songs still drag on too long for my taste.

The only thing worse than short radio songs are good, long songs that get chopped to fit the station. I won a contest on a rock station and in addition to the prize I could pick any song to be played immediately. I picked Pink Floyd's 'Pigs'. It's 11:25. They were none to happy, but played it and then CUT it to ~4 minutes. :violent

[EatSleepJeep]

is that a valid statement? considering the fact that the verse wasnt cut on BS?

I could be wrong, but the verse was gone following the release. If not, it was about that time. I have it in my head that BS was the last time I'd ever hear that verse.

[darbini]

I picked Pink Floyd's 'Pigs'. It's 11:25. They were none to happy, but played it and then CUT it to ~4 minutes. :violent


haha great pick, kind of reminds me of when I play songs on a jukebox at a pool hall. Little money=long songs. Red House, CCR doing Grapevine, Sultans of swing. It's like 'Boom' children, I got the jukebox by the balls for the next 37 minutes!(or however long it is)

[shoelessjoe910]

most people that listen to the radio think that (I dont know if your girlfriend does though), because their attention span has been conditioned to think 3:28 is a "long song".
We don't have radio....she doesn't like songs that go on past 6 minutes. It becomes redundant to her. You can pack a lot of music in a shorter amount of time.

To a comment about the Beatles....their song lengths are NOW considered "short" (though Hey Jude was 7min 11sec as a single) today but they were the leaders of making the radio play longer songs! Singles used to clock under 2 minutes or right at 2 minutes. 2min 30sec was pushing it!

[darbini]

I could be wrong, but the verse was gone following the release. If not, it was about that time. I have it in my head that BS was the last time I'd ever hear that verse.


They changed it when they played it on the Conan O'Brien Show, then all shows from that point were truncated :(

[shoelessjoe910]

Another point about singles...they were released on "45s" which could not hold too much anyway, until technology got better and were able to hold longer songs like Hey Jude. Classic example is "Shout" by the Isley brothers. The song total is about 4-5 minutes, but had to be broken into TWO parts...one on the A-side and the other on the B-side!

[OCMarsh]

To a comment about the Beatles....their song lengths are NOW considered "short" (though Hey Jude was 7min 11sec as a single) today but they were the leaders of making the radio play longer songs! Singles used to clock under 2 minutes or right at 2 minutes. 2min 30sec was pushing it!


Bad example of a leader...

Cant Buy Me Love 2:09
Help 2:19
I Feel Fine 2:19
I Saw Her Standing There 2:55
Twist And Shout 2:28
Yesterday 2:05

and my favorite

I'll Follow The Sun 1:50!!!!!!

[EatSleepJeep]

haha great pick, kind of reminds me of when I play songs on a jukebox at a pool hall. Little money=long songs. Red House, CCR doing Grapevine, Sultans of swing. It's like 'Boom' children, I got the jukebox by the balls for the next 37 minutes!(or however long it is)


Further on this Hijack.

Greg and I went to go play pool at Zimm's. Two guys had the table so we started playing doubles against them. Seek Up from Live @ Red Rocks plays on the Box and the guys we're playing against are happy because their music finally came up. We complimented their choice(obviously) and got to dicussing DMB while we played. Then Proudest Monkey starts playing and I ask jokingly "What did you do, pick the whole show?" He says "Yeah. Duh." :lol I bought their pitchers for the rest of the night.

[EatSleepJeep]

They changed it when they played it on the Conan O'Brien Show, then all shows from that point were truncated :(

...which was 12-18-02

BS released on 7-16-02.

My theory is shot.

This feature song made its debut in 2000 as a frequently played feature with alternating lyrics. In fact, it was the most played song of the 2000 summer tour at 46 of 52 shows. In 2001, this song took a back seat to the "Everyday" songs yet was still one of the top 5 openers of the tour. After the release of "Busted Stuff", the song came back with a vengeance in 2002 with static lyrics and went on to be the second most played song three tours in a row. On 12.17.02, the song was played with the first chorus and second verse omitted and was played that way on all performances for over a year. Starting in the Summer 2004 tour, the song began to be performed in the following version: 1st verse, 1st chorus, 3rd verse, 3rd chorus.

[shoelessjoe910]

Bad example of a leader...

Cant Buy Me Love 2:09
Help 2:19
I Feel Fine 2:19
I Saw Her Standing There 2:55
Twist And Shout 2:28
Yesterday 2:05

and my favorite

I'll Follow The Sun 1:50!!!!!!
I'm talking about later Beatles!!! But I Saw Her Standing There was actually controversial when released in America because of its length!

The songs I was refering to are songs like "Let It Be," "Long and Winding Road," "Revolution," "Get Back," "Don't Let Me Down"....etc!

Also, they were the band that FORCED stations to play albums songs with their release of Sgt. Pepper's. In fact, this was the start of "album" listening parties on radio and such.

[darbini]

nothing better than hearing some DMB songs at bar that you didn't pick!

[JiMiThiNG277]

Do not believe those track listings. I can remember when I was checking out an old Eminem CD a couple years ago (at the time it was about to come out) and their track listings were all horribly incorrect.

Plus its circuit city

[OCMarsh]

I'm talking about later Beatles!!! But I Saw Her Standing There was actually controversial when released in America because of its length!

The songs I was refering to are songs like "Let It Be," "Long and Winding Road," "Revolution," "Get Back," "Don't Let Me Down"....etc!

Also, they were the band that FORCED stations to play albums songs with their release of Sgt. Pepper's. In fact, this was the start of "album" listening parties on radio and such.

I thought you meant the Beatles in general!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It sure is funny to think of a 3 minute song as unusually long!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why are we yelling!!!!!!

[SevenMinarets]

Bitch, Bitch, and Bitch some more....

Quantity does not necessarily equal quality.

[EatSleepJeep]

Bitch, Bitch, and Bitch some more....

Quantity does not necessarily equal quality.


If the song is shorter than the break between songs, that's bad.

[OCMarsh]

Do not believe those track listings. I can remember when I was checking out an old Eminem CD a couple years ago (at the time it was about to come out) and their track listings were all horribly incorrect.

Plus its circuit city

As much as I want them to be wrong about this, I don't think they are. I just checked there tracklisting for Haughty Melodic and it's 1 second off.

[MikeGaddis]

All gloom and doom. At least wait until you hear the full album personally. Then if you really still hate it, complain all you like.

[SevenMinarets]

If the song is shorter than the break between songs, that's bad.
???

What if a song has the coolest riff in the world but is only a minute long?
But, another song is 20 minutes long and is just crap...I'd take the minute over 20 horrible ones.

I know you didn't necessarily state that in your response I was just kind of responding to the thread as a whole.

[Erich]

We don't have radio....she doesn't like songs that go on past 6 minutes. It becomes redundant to her. You can pack a lot of music in a shorter amount of time.

depends on the type. pop music? yes. progressive stuff like floyd, 72 era jethro tull, and opeth? not in hell :p

[climbin2by2]

see the only thing that bothers me about this is that i dont expect to see any masterpieces come out of this one like dreaming tree or seek up.... BTCS was what... 11 songs and 72 minutes long? im just sad... oh and by the way uhhhhhh

"now our finest hour arrives.. see the pig dressed in his finest fine.. and now the believer stands behind him and smiles.. watch the day light up in fire....."

why is that verse in both out of my hands and everybody wake up... that scares me lol.. has anyone else noticed that?? daves lyrics are running on empty :( ... im just glad the music kicks ass... too bad its short.................

[EatSleepJeep]

???

What if a song has the coolest riff in the world but is only a minute long?
But, another song is 20 minutes long and is just crap...I'd take the minute over 20 horrible ones.

I know you didn't necessarily state that in your response I was just kind of responding to the thread as a whole.


I know what you're getting at, and I appreciate your point. But we're deailing in hypothetical at this point, bo treal world. The real question is, can DMB fit all the elements of a good song into <3 minutes? I think the answer is no.

[SevenMinarets]

I know what you're getting at, and I appreciate your point. But we're deailing in hypothetical at this point, bo treal world. The real question is, can DMB fit all the elements of a good song into <3 minutes? I think the answer is no.
PNP??? ;)

We'll have to wait and see...

[EatSleepJeep]

PNP??? ;)
touche. jerk. :D

You know that doesn't count.:twak ;)

[SevenMinarets]

touche. jerk. :D

You know that doesn't count.:twak ;)
Haha. I know, I know. I had to find something though. :D

[chrisandiego]

Crash track listing for reference:
1 So Much to Say (4:07)
2 Two Step (6:27)
3 Crash Into Me (5:16)
4 Too Much (4:21)
5 #41 (6:39)
6 Say Goodbye (6:11)
7 Drive in Drive Out (5:54)
8 Let You Down (4:07)
9 Lie in Our Graves (5:42)
10 Cry Freedom (5:53)
11 Tripping Billies (5:00)
12 Proudest Monkey (9:11)

I guess I was just hoping that the boys would jam out in the studio a little more. I'm still as amped as ever for Stand Up, I was just looking forward to long drives listening to the boys' new jamming sessions in the studio. It'd be nice to have a pair of songs that have a long #41->Say Goodbye-esque flow to them.

[sdaltons]

It'd be nice to have a pair of songs that have a long #41->Say Goodbye-esque flow to them.

Everybody Wake Up -> Out Of My Hands.

Duh. :D

[darbini]

It'd be nice to have a pair of songs that have a long #41->Say Goodbye-esque flow to them.


probably not in the same vein as in music, but I think we may get more of that kind of flow between songs with Pud Nats

[darbini]

Everybody Wake Up -> Out Of My Hands.

Duh. :D


hahahahahahahahuuuuuuuuump :hump

[EatSleepJeep]

Pud Nats

:lol

[Bluedaze21]

An average 4 minute song length no matter which way you spin it is not a good sign, the CD might still be good but I thought there was going to be more extended jams.

But consider that a 4 minute song with little lyrical flair as some of the "infamous" clips indicated might still be privy to some of those jams.

Here's to hoping anyway, right? :)

[clayj41]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Baker1185]

so thats why sugar will didn't make the cut.......

[Bluedaze21]

That is too bad about the short Hello Again- but who knows what and where they made cuts to make it 3:52, probably a fade out or something...Anyways, I guess I'm just glad it made the cut (assuming no '04 songs were renamed and made the final tracklisting), it could have just as easily been deep-sixed like the other summer tunes.

[slk11086]

one thing I noticed about someone's comment after reading 4 pages: everyday the song (although signaling the demise of 36) is better live than studio because of the #36esque jam at the end IMO

I have been listening to the beatles all day, nothing wrong with 3 minute songs, and if the songs have more "funk" I'd expect jams when we here it live, they are constantly reinventing and adding to the jams from year to year... look at too much from Crash: its right around 4 minutes in the studio and last year at GGP it was over 6 minutes with the little john outro

[slk11086]

and here is aol's track listing with times
http://music.channel.aol.com/artist/main.adp?tab=album&artistid=196505&albumid=738275

[shoelessjoe910]

That is too bad about the short Hello Again- but who knows what and where they made cuts to make it 3:52, probably a fade out or something...Anyways, I guess I'm just glad it made the cut (assuming no '04 songs were renamed and made the final tracklisting), it could have just as easily been deep-sixed like the other summer tunes.
You know what could be "added"??? It might be used as an outro for the album....like Seek Up's jam on R2R!!! Just a thought...probably not, but possible. I can hear it now, after Hunger For the Great Light....there's a short pause then Carter's drums kick into a sick solo and then they finish the album with Hello Again "reprise."

[dmbosw41]

yeah I wish the songs were longer and Smooth rider only being 2 minutes...that just sucks. That was my favorite tune out of the bunch. Its funny American Baby...the song everyone thought would be prob the worst song on the album or at least they hoped it..is the longest song on there with its intro. This is not adding up but yeah the songs will be jammed out more live.

[BeQuietAndDrive]

I think there's going to be a lot of unnecessary complaining with the album version of Hello Again. Sure, I too would like to see it in full on the album, but it's still gonna be the same song we love where it matters, on tour.

There was a ton of whining with Halloween on BTCS and I expect this to be no different. It's tough adjusting to a studio version of a song after hearing it live for a while, but it's much easier the other way around. It's a process that doesn't really work backwards.

[Bluedaze21]

You know what could be "added"??? It might be used as an outro for the album....like Seek Up's jam on R2R!!! Just a thought...probably not, but possible. I can hear it now, after Hunger For the Great Light....there's a short pause then Carter's drums kick into a sick solo and then they finish the album with Hello Again "reprise."

Yeahhh, that's a badass sound in my head too, man. I dig that.

I remember I bought Remember Two Things when I bought Before These Crowded Streets....Both have recurring outros at the end of the album (as I'm sure all of you know, but for the sake of repeating, Seek Up -> R2T, and Last Stop -> BTCS), and remember thinking how cool of a way to end an album that was, especially considering the serenity of those outros.

[detnelatnu]

You know what could be "added"??? It might be used as an outro for the album....like Seek Up's jam on R2R!!! Just a thought...probably not, but possible. I can hear it now, after Hunger For the Great Light....there's a short pause then Carter's drums kick into a sick solo and then they finish the album with Hello Again "reprise."

Now that I would like quite a lot.

[detnelatnu]

The only thing worse than short radio songs are good, long songs that get chopped to fit the station. I won a contest on a rock station and in addition to the prize I could pick any song to be played immediately. I picked Pink Floyd's 'Pigs'. It's 11:25. They were none to happy, but played it and then CUT it to ~4 minutes. :violent

Hehe. I like playing ridiculously long songs on my show. I played a twenty-two minute Godspeed You! Black Emperor song on my show a few months ago. I was bored and it was something to keep me entertained for a while. It's too bad our college station has such a pitiful limited reception area. We're getting a big update next year, that will be good.

[Bartender84]

OK, let's use our fucking heads here. How do we know these won't be twice as long live?

For example, let's look at Hello Again. 4 minutes in the studio, and yet it's more than twice that live.

How do you all somehow know that the rest of these songs won't be like that? Can you suddenly look into the future? Please wait until they are played live before judging them on their length.

Oh, and if I recall, LIOG in the studio was pretty short too.

Hello Again is your proof that the studio song lengths do NOT matter.

[seektwothings]

The band jams even more and longer now(i.e. sugar will, jimmy, warehouse, seek up, two step, typical). Older DMB ('93-'97) may have more improvosation, but definetly shorter jams.

[dmb24hickey]

first of all....shorter songs dont necessarily mean they are bad...i am a bit saddened...but still highly optimistic...second..i think the people at the listening party probably got confused with the song lengths because of the segues..i think if the cd flows well enough that it wont matter how short the songs are shown to be. lastly, i do expect some of these songs to be jammed out, but probably only about a third of the ones that they actually even attempt to play live...i always expected a lot more from so right but it pretty much stayed the same cept for a bit longer outro...yet never imagined that angel could have anything done to it and it was about 14 minutes long(unfortunately)still liked the lovely ladies part introducing the band..but glad they and the song are gone from setlist...but i like to have some shorter songs at concerts too because it makes the flow of the concert better...if every song were an orgasmic two step..i would probably not be able to feel my legs or my voice ever again...i simple if i had it all or satelllite every once in a while is necessary!!! i cannot wait til may 10th and of course even more for this summer!!!! shows attending: 6/7-6/8 columbus, 7/16-7/17(my bday)west palm, 7/20 tenn, 7/21 cincy and 7/30-7/31 randall island..so hopefully these songs are sweet cause if they arent i am going to be forced to like them all summer..of course dmb will not disappoint..heres to bringing back so right and you never know this summer!!!!

[DriveOut]

I guess the short song lengths are pretty discouraging, but if there is a good flow to the album and a few segues I think we won't notice too much. I think EWU->OOMH is a good example of this, neither song is particularly long on its own, but since the clip we heard of OOMH seems like an outro to EWU, it will most likely form one sort of long song that is over 8 minutes in length. Fifty six minutes of music is still not bad for an album, it's probably longer than the average CD release. Besides, anyone expecting the album to suck should be happy, because shorter new songs mean more room for old material on the setlists this summer.

Anyway, the only thing that really bums me out about this new info is that Steady As We Go is only 3:23 long. Can you fit a "DMB epic" into a space less than three and a half minutes? I hope so, but I'm a little more suspicious now.

[Bartender84]

Also, if I recall, Typical Situation is only a little over 5 minutes in the studio also.

[PilotC150]

I don't know if it's been mentioned because I didn't read all 5 pages, but remember this album was recorded before the tour down under.

Hello Again may be short on the album, but it averaged over 8 minutes on tour.

So quit freakin' out.

[dmb24hickey]

I guess the short song lengths are pretty discouraging, but if there is a good flow to the album and a few segues I think we won't notice too much. I think EWU->OOMH is a good example of this, neither song is particularly long on its own, but since the clip we heard of OOMH seems like an outro to EWU, it will most likely form one sort of long song that is over 8 minutes in length. Fifty six minutes of music is still not bad for an album, it's probably longer than the average CD release. Besides, anyone expecting the album to suck should be happy, because shorter new songs mean more room for old material on the setlists this summer.

Anyway, the only thing that really bums me out about this new info is that Steady As We Go is only 3:23 long. Can you fit a "DMB epic" into a space less than three and a half minutes? I hope so, but I'm a little more suspicious now.

ill back you up is a short song and is an epic

[jfreed009]

I for one am very dissapointed with the lengths of these songs. from 14 tracks i was expected a cd close to 70 min. i guess i was just being optimistic. still cant wait for may 10th though

[DriveOut]

Yeah but I'll Back You Up is also more than a minute longer than Steady As We Go.

[DriveOut]

Hopefully these short tracks are more due to a quicker tempo rather than a lack of musical structure. Part of the reason songs tend to go so long in concert now is that the band has slowed down the tempo of a lot of their earlier songs.

[goochylittlepig]

http://www.antsmarching.org/tour/ViewShow.php?ShowID=2536

EDIT: Help Myself was recorded during the BTCS sessions but not the Crash sessions, although it was long thought to be recorded during the Crash sessions.
i never looked at those lists of the complete stuff recorded for those albums. damn, that makes me so frustrated and crazy that there's all these good studio songs from back in the day, and ill never hear 'em =(

[goochylittlepig]

If a song sucks in the studio it is going to suck live. Did any of the ED songs get any better in a live setting?
yeah. all of them. a lot better. wtf? the album is just bad. i listened to it again yesterday, and god even the songs i like are just crappy compared to live versions. :goat

[SevenMinarets]

Am I the only one here that enjoys concise studio recordings? I mean, sure I enjoy the LIOG from Crash and Dreaming Tree on BTCS. But, I also enjoy tight and to the point producing. Besides, extension is the reason we have tours.

[goochylittlepig]

Am I the only one here that enjoys concise studio recordings? I mean, sure I enjoy the LIOG from Crash and Dreaming Tree on BTCS. But, I also enjoy tight and to the point producing. Besides, extension is the reason we have tours.
:thumbsup

[Nitro1515]

yeah. all of them. a lot better. wtf? the album is just bad. i listened to it again yesterday, and god even the songs i like are just crappy compared to live versions. :goat
I fail to see how any of those songs got better, they are all horrendous I don't care what you do to them live.

[SevenMinarets]

I fail to see how any of those songs got better, they are all horrendous I don't care what you do to them live.
I think that just becomes more of an opinion, which you are entitled to. I enjoy So Right and I thought it got better live. I enjoy WYA and occasionally Everyday.

[willndmb]

not impressed
hell a song not even 3 mins

[Matt1838]

Wow, those are some pretty weak track lengths. Really let down.

[SevenMinarets]

Yea, and I just noticed that according to that Circuit City link, Stand Up is another Dave Matthews solo project. :rolleyes

[jfreed009]

Yea, and I just noticed that according to that Circuit City link, Stand Up is another Dave Matthews solo project. :rolleyes

looks to be.. whats up with these track lengths waht happened to jammin it out

[Bluedaze21]

looks to be.. whats up with these track lengths waht happened to jammin it out

What happened to not hearing the complete songs yet?

I know it is a generic thought....but tracks in their entirety remain to be heard yet. Keep alive the hopes my friends

[road_designer]

What happened to not hearing the complete songs yet?

I know it is a generic thought....but tracks in their entirety remain to be heard yet. Keep alive the hopes my friends

hard to "jam" anything out in 4 minutes.

[Bluedaze21]

hard to "jam" anything out in 4 minutes.

True, but I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread- that a song without lyrical flair would perhaps be more liable to have the majority of the small song lengths spent on instrumentation. I know....it's a small chance considering recent history, and the fact that I haven't heard the songs yet.....However I'm just that....ignorant to the complete content of any of the songs (save for AB of course) and I'm not going to pretend otherwise.

Let's just see what happens :)

[bartender1162]

I won't have DMB in my back seat when I'm driving to and from work everyday.

:lol:lol

[SevenMinarets]

:lol:lol
Reminds me of those Starbucks commercials...."ROY!.....ROY ROY ROY!"

[Matt1838]

Just thinking about something - remember in the videos someone said "I think we should focus on what the song is about early on"... I take that as meaning getting the lyrics out the way early. So in a 4 minute song, two minutes of lyrics --> 2 minutes jam? Maybe?

[bartender1162]

:ugh

How about Everyday and What You Are?

i'll also throw in So Right and WTWE

oh, yeah, and FTT for Jake ;)...

[bartender1162]

first of all....shorter songs dont necessarily mean they are bad...i am a bit saddened...but still highly optimistic...second..i think the people at the listening party probably got confused with the song lengths because of the segues..i think if the cd flows well enough that it wont matter how short the songs are shown to be. lastly, i do expect some of these songs to be jammed out, but probably only about a third of the ones that they actually even attempt to play live...i always expected a lot more from so right but it pretty much stayed the same cept for a bit longer outro...yet never imagined that angel could have anything done to it and it was about 14 minutes long(unfortunately)still liked the lovely ladies part introducing the band..but glad they and the song are gone from setlist...but i like to have some shorter songs at concerts too because it makes the flow of the concert better...if every song were an orgasmic two step..i would probably not be able to feel my legs or my voice ever again...i simple if i had it all or satelllite every once in a while is necessary!!! i cannot wait til may 10th and of course even more for this summer!!!! shows attending: 6/7-6/8 columbus, 7/16-7/17(my bday)west palm, 7/20 tenn, 7/21 cincy and 7/30-7/31 randall island..so hopefully these songs are sweet cause if they arent i am going to be forced to like them all summer..of course dmb will not disappoint..heres to bringing back so right and you never know this summer!!!!

7/20 AmSouth! yeah baby!

[Bluedaze21]

Just thinking about something - remember in the videos someone said "I think we should focus on what the song is about early on"... I take that as meaning getting the lyrics out the way early. So in a 4 minute song, two minutes of lyrics --> 2 minutes jam? Maybe?

Perhaps, though I suppose you could also interpret that as being a part of the song creation process; focusing on lyrics prior to writing the accompaniment for it:

Roi the first video about liking how he knows the lyrics first, so he knows what the song is about.

EDIT: But I'm with you man, I'm hoping they will make the most of the time.

[Noles20]

Reminds me of those Starbucks commercials...."ROY!.....ROY ROY ROY!"


Those commercials disappeared quickly!

[Noles20]

Just thinking about something - remember in the videos someone said "I think we should focus on what the song is about early on"... I take that as meaning getting the lyrics out the way early. So in a 4 minute song, two minutes of lyrics --> 2 minutes jam? Maybe?

I also took that to mean early in the creation of the song.

[MistreatedLewis]

If all of the songs come close to the quality of WWYS and Too Much, it really wouldn't matter to me if they were 3 1/2 minutes or 10 minutes.

[chrisandiego]

If all of the songs come close to the quality of WWYS and Too Much, it really wouldn't matter to me if they were 3 1/2 minutes or 10 minutes.

Word to that.

[The Lado]

If all of the songs come close to the quality of WWYS and Too Much, it really wouldn't matter to me if they were 3 1/2 minutes or 10 minutes.

Yeah really. Too Much and So Much To Say are badass and are just over 4 minutes. Most of the time I don't think studio songs should be jammed out. It would just make em sound out of place. Anyhow, I agree with alot of people here, I cant judge this album off clips.

[Disco Stu]

does anyone have links to old old threads when people were just first finding out about the new album even being created, knew nothing about it...i'd like to see the insaneness there was and everyone's predictions on what it owuld be like...

[SideshowRob]

the first version of Hello Again was still upwards of 4 and a half to five minutes... how could they have possibly cut it down so much?

[cottlerocket]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

my thoughts exactly. carter's solo is usually longer than that. joke...haha.

[justinandimcool]

Could have sworn somebody's review in the official album thread said Hunger was 8 minutes...oh well.

[justinandimcool]

He answered some questions and from what I remember, the album clocked in at around 65-70 minutes. Some songs were short (3-4 minutes) while others were longer (5-7 minutes) There was quite a bit of jamming to end a few songs and a lot of people asked about those clips and he didn't remember hearing either of them on the album so unfortunately it looks like they were left off.

From the Release Party Thread

[BustedJeff]

If the album is so short, why couldn't they have included Joyride??? I mean, it's not like they were pressed for space and the song was finished in the studio...

[MistreatedLewis]

If the album is so short, why couldn't they have included Joyride??? I mean, it's not like they were pressed for space and the song was finished in the studio...


But we're getting it anyway...

[tosssweep]

If the album is so short, why couldn't they have included Joyride??? I mean, it's not like they were pressed for space and the song was finished in the studio...
Maybe it didn't fit the "feel" of the album, but I couldn't say how accurate that speculation is as I have not listened to anything other than American Baby and last summer's songs. I would be they were just more excited about these particular songs to go public.

But we're getting it anyway...

If by "we" you mean the small percentage of fanatics that frequent the online message boards and know the album is on preorder (and are actually preordering it), then you are correct. The general public is not in on this. And don't forget that the public knows next to nothing about taping and trading, so they haven't heard last summer's versions of songs either. So really, very few people are "getting it anyway"

[MistreatedLewis]

If by "we" you mean the small percentage of fanatics that frequent the online message boards and know the album is on preorder (and are actually preordering it), then you are correct. The general public is not in on this. And don't forget that the public knows next to nothing about taping and trading, so they haven't heard last summer's versions of songs either. So really, very few people are "getting it anyway"

You don't think that track is going to end up on kazaa in about five seconds after its release? Or before its release?

[BustedJeff]

But we're getting it anyway...

I know that, but it seems weird to kick it off the album with plenty of extra space and put it on a bonus disk.

[MistreatedLewis]

I know that, but it seems weird to kick it off the album with plenty of extra space and put it on a bonus disk.

I agree with the whole "fit for the album" post below. An album should be looked at as a unified whole, which is Dave's major criticism of UTTAD and Crash. So for whatever reason I guess the band just decided against that one as a part of this particular album.

[Noles20]

When do stores typically get the cd's for a tuesday release???

[nonewdirections]

If all of the songs come close to the quality of WWYS and Too Much, it really wouldn't matter to me if they were 3 1/2 minutes or 10 minutes.

that's a big "if" isn't it?

anyway, about the song lengths, i don't care.

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2788094&postcount=3488
this post is relevant here.

[MistreatedLewis]

that's a big "if" isn't it?

anyway, about the song lengths, i don't care.

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2788094&postcount=3488
this post is relevant here.


To me it is, but a lot of people around here don't like those songs anyway because they are single. Too Much was considered very un-DMB when it came out.

[msb3079]

When do stores typically get the cd's for a tuesday release???

depends on the store... CC was typically that Saturday... sometimes Friday... sometimes not even til that monday.

[nonewdirections]

To me it is, but a lot of people around here don't like those songs anyway because they are single. Too Much was considered very un-DMB when it came out.

well i really like those songs.

[Brezz]

is there anyone from the listening parties that can shed light on how long the songs were then? also, did the whole "65-70" minutes comments come from the segues that are supposedly present? that wouldn't technically be counted in the song length, so maybe that explains the descrepencies.

brian

[goochylittlepig]

Maybe it didn't fit the "feel" of the album, but I couldn't say how accurate that speculation is as I have not listened to anything other than American Baby and last summer's songs. I would be they were just more excited about these particular songs to go public.



If by "we" you mean the small percentage of fanatics that frequent the online message boards and know the album is on preorder (and are actually preordering it), then you are correct. The general public is not in on this. And don't forget that the public knows next to nothing about taping and trading, so they haven't heard last summer's versions of songs either. So really, very few people are "getting it anyway"
there's not just a bunch of fanatics who are gonna wind up with joy ride, either from preordering and file sharing, friends, etc. most dmb fans are pretty computer-oriented anyways. sure, some of the casual fans who pick up the album after hearing the singles on the radio might not ever hear joy ride, but fuck them, dmb shouldnt be planning their albums around those people.

[nonewdirections]

is there anyone from the listening parties that can shed light on how long the songs were then? also, did the whole "65-70" minutes comments come from the segues that are supposedly present? that wouldn't technically be counted in the song length, so maybe that explains the descrepencies.

brian

i think the longer quoted times have more to do with embellishment and human inaccuracy. i don't think anyone actually put a stopwatch to it.

[tosssweep]

there's not just a bunch of fanatics who are gonna wind up with joy ride, either from preordering and file sharing, friends, etc. most dmb fans are pretty computer-oriented anyways. sure, some of the casual fans who pick up the album after hearing the singles on the radio might not ever hear joy ride, but fuck them, dmb shouldnt be planning their albums around those people.

I think you are right that there will be plenty of fans that are going to get Joy Ride (and the others) through friends/file sharing/etc. However, I think you are greatly underestimating how many people will buy the album they see in stores and not look beyond that.

To give a personal example, that I will admit likely does not statistically fit the entire population of music consumers by any stretch of the imagination but I'd guess holds some accuracy: Here on campus I know about 25 people beyond just the name and say "Hello" from time to time. Of these people, less than 5 are aware that a new DMB album is in the works. Of these 5, only 1 (ex girlfriend) has an idea of the trading realm. Like I said, this is probably an underestimate of the typical music consumer's awareness of the Dave Matthews Band, but you cannot dismiss the notion that an enormous percent don't pay follow closely to a band and only check out a new cd when singles and music videos hit. I admit I do that with most of the other bands I appreciate. But to say "fuck them, dmb shouldnt be planning their albums around those people" is just ridiculous! Music is meant to be shared and enjoyed by anyone, not for a small percentage of fans to become elitist over!

[zepfan1234]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!

Well I guess there is no intro for this one...I was hoping for a nice intro ,a la , some of the Live versions.

Ehese songs are fucking short. WTF?:BANG Almost 3 years of waiting for one hours worth of new music?

[DaveJackJohn]

shhhh.....be patient. and be nice.

we dont need any of this:BANG
or any of this:twak
just a litlle of this will do just fine:ggoat :hump

[bherd]

3:52 for Hello Again???? Booo!!!


Yeah I totally agree....sounds like a Grey Street and Bartender repeat to me where the LWS were nice and long...then BS was chopped at the nuts.

[dmb2much40]

Almost 3 years of waiting for one hours worth of new music?

it's really disappointing. they were bragging about how much new material they wrote for this album. with all that extra space, they could have put another 4 songs on the album. esp. joyride. joyride seems like it would fit with the songs we heard clips of, so it's bizzare they put it on a bonus disc. 3:52 for hello again?!!?? that would lead me to believe that there's no dave vocal intro (that was like :45 on tour), no carter solo. hell, they probably cut out a verse. i really hope this isn't another grey street.

[yanks7533]

read the arc batson interview, he goes through the trouble of making the point that dmb is at its best when their songs evovle over and and he is interested to see how that occurs when these songs are taken on the road....i think theres alot of jam potential in all these songs

[BeQuietAndDrive]

Well... we are getting Joy Ride and Trouble With You anyway, if that's any consolation to people. That's another two songs that I am gonna group with this album anyway.

[ZildjianLudwig]

Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01
I was wondering - is that BTCS average based on SONG length or TRACK length? I wouldn't count the intra-song-jams as part of the track length. I also would not count them as teeny tiny short songs. For the sake of these numbers, I would not count them toward album-length at all (since you're trying to establish song lengths.)

Just curious how it was done.

[yanks7533]

another point...if half the songs take on a live transition like the one we know (hello again) i'll be happy...i think this album will be a very listenable album to standard listeners and us for popping it in the radio etc.. im disapointed at the short song lengths still i woulda like 2 or so songs over 5 minutes...so should be interesting...

and if you take away the ab intro and smooth rider, just ebout everything else is over 4 minutes which are pretty respectable song lengths comapred to most albums

[nonewdirections]

another point...if half the songs take on a live transition like the one we know (hello again) i'll be happy...i think this album will be a very listenable album to standard listeners and us for popping it in the radio etc.. im disapointed at the short song lengths still i woulda like 2 or so songs over 5 minutes...so should be interesting...

if not one of them does, will you be unhappy?

anyone feel like we're grabbing for straws here? the songs on the new album are short.

[yanks7533]

i never said i won't be happy...im making a educated guess...and im being very open minded about the album and really like it so far... tough crowd

[BeQuietAndDrive]

if not one of them does, will you be unhappy?

anyone feel like we're grabbing for straws here? the songs on the new album are short.

I don't think it's really grabbing for straws. It's an assumption that I think is safe to make. Even the Everyday songs are extended live (Everyday, What You Are, So Right) and they are great live.

I don't think there's any reason to assume some if not all of these songs will be played out live.

[Matt1838]

That's not grabbing for straws at all - practically every DMB song is longer, and more jammed out, in concert. It's been that way forever, so why should we think differently now?

[nonewdirections]

That's not grabbing for straws at all - practically every DMB song is longer, and more jammed out, in concert. It's been that way forever, so why should we think differently now?

and some of them aren't. most of the songs on everyday weren't extended live. captain and grey street have actually been shortened after being released on disc. when i say "grabbing at straws," i mean that it seems that people are simply unwilling to swallow that the actual songs on the actual album being released are actually shorter than most people expected.

[ethaxton]

read the arc batson interview, he goes through the trouble of making the point that dmb is at its best when their songs evovle over and and he is interested to see how that occurs when these songs are taken on the road....i think theres alot of jam potential in all these songs

Yeah I was very happy to hear this part in the interview, I should probably read it again because I was plastered when I read it last night.

[mcw517]

it seems like everyone's trying their hardest to make the best of a potentially dissapointing situation. Personally, I think this album will be good but not of the best. But you have to consider this: DMB has been together for a long time, and up until about ED their style has been really similar/definable, athough BTCS had some pretty new stuff also. I think DMB just needs a change, and let's face it, they've all evolved and maybe they're not going to go back to their old style. We just have to accept what's coming.

Jesus, I think I may go insane by May 10th.

[BDJCL3]

Just consider Hello Again, seemingly so short here but live you won't hardly find one under 8:00. Many of these will come out in concert.

[ZildjianLudwig]

practically every DMB song is longer, and more jammed out, in concert.
i think theres alot of jam potential in all these songs
I don't think there's any reason to assume some if not all of these songs will be played out live.
Someone should search these threads and count the instances of key words and phrases like "potential," and "but ... live."

I have no doubt these songs will kick ass live. DMB rarely disappoints in that category. The problem is it looks like we are justifying left-and-right the reasons this album might not be great. We are excusing what many of us fear will be a shoddy album.

What was so wrong with studio-album-jamming? When did we acquiesce and decide albums without it were fine?

When did we decide that studio albums should be DMB-Lite?

Let the pummeling of ZildjianLudwig begin :violent

[jayman414]

man i wish smooth rider was longer, i really like that song. good find, i cant wait for may 10


jason

[TobiasClown]

what would you say clocks in at 3:42. most of the songs on this new album are above 4 min. what would you say is an incredible and it under 4:00. who cares if it is short and if they dont jam it out. if its so short just press the repeat button and listen to it again.

[Bartender84]

I just don't get how people can determine the LIVE jam potential based solely on the STUDIO song lengths.

Hello Again should be all the proof you need that these songs could be much longer live.

[zepfan1234]

read the arc batson interview, he goes through the trouble of making the point that dmb is at its best when their songs evovle over and and he is interested to see how that occurs when these songs are taken on the road....i think theres alot of jam potential in all these songs

I also think DMB can jam it out in the studio. And for all the fun times that we've heard they have had, it sounds like they did. WTF Less than one hour of music? Over 25 songs cut down to this list? WHY? What were they thinking?

EDIT : I wan't to hear a good version of every song come from the studio. Yea, the live shows are great, but I want those studio songs to shine : i.e. Dreaming Tree! Perfection!

[road_designer]

I just don't get how people can determine the LIVE jam potential based solely on the STUDIO song lengths.

Hello Again should be all the proof you need that these songs could be much longer live.

for the last time, STOP USING HELLO AGAIN AS PROOF! If anything, it proves that a jammed out song can be truncated, again. Hello Again started out long with a great jam at the end, not the other way around.

[nonewdirections]

I also think DMB can jam it out in the studio. And for all the fun times that we've heard they have had, it sounds like they did. WTF Less than one hour of music? Over 25 songs cut down to this list? WHY? What were they thinking?

EDIT : I wan't to hear a good version of every song come from the studio. Yea, the live shows are great, but I want those studio songs to shine : i.e. Dreaming Tree! Perfection!

maybe the dozen that didn't make it weren't much good? or maybe they weren't even close to finished songs (as the interview suggested). i think when some people think "song" -- they have something like "two step" or even "everyday" in their head. a finished studio track. maybe the 25 count included things like "dressed in black" and "light lift me up," which while nice-sounding would take a lot of tweaking and writing to become actual finished songs.

sometimes i feel that fans on here are so starved for new material that they wouldn't really mind if dmb just released a 30+ song studio album that had no cohesive theme or sound, just to hear their favorite band jam out. now as cool as that sounds, i'd rather hear a focused studio album than a collection of studio outtakes.

[nonewdirections]

for the last time, STOP USING HELLO AGAIN AS PROOF! If anything, it proves that a jammed out song can be truncated, again. Hello Again started out long with a great jam at the end, not the other way around.

:lol we don't always see eye to eye, but damn was that spot-on logic. i hadn't even thought of it that way.

[Bartender84]

for the last time, STOP USING HELLO AGAIN AS PROOF! If anything, it proves that a jammed out song can be truncated, again. Hello Again started out long with a great jam at the end, not the other way around.

Sure, except it's not being truncated live, only on the album.

[nonewdirections]

Sure, except it's not being truncated live, only on the album.

which is the point. i thought we were talking about the new studio album?

[ericvol]

I don't really care how long they are except Hello Again...under 4 minutes for that song is pretty piss poor. No Jam No into....dissapointing.

[road_designer]

Sure, except it's not being truncated live, only on the album.

:ugh exactly

[Bartender84]

So basically, you want the album to be exactly what is played live.

That's not what I want. I'd rather have an album of shorter (not too short), more concise songs, and then watch those songs be expanded into greater songs when played live.

The pre-BTCS albums only had a few songs that were over 6 minutes long. Tripping Billies, Ants Marching, Song That Jane Likes, etc., all songs that have become live staples.

You can form your opinions from the clips, if you don't like what you hear on the clips, that's perfectly fine. I just don't see how whether or not a studio song is great is determined by its length.

[zepfan1234]

I have not heard the clips and I don't want to. I want to be (somewhat) surprised by the album.

But, What are we agruing about in this thread? It seems to change every 5 min!

[yin_yang]

Since the ED experience, Dave is definitely going for shorter and perhaps more "tight" songs than previous albums. Whether that is a good thing or a bad thing is yet to be seen. It works for me on Some Devil and on parts of ED at least (I don't count Busted Stuff since its genesis occurred under Lillywhite and prior to Dave's songwriting with Ballard). Average song length for each studio album...

UTTAD - 5:14
Crash - 5:34
BTCS - 6:23
BS - 5:12
--------------
ED - 4:13
SD - 4:14
SU - 4:01

based on this information, and taking into account the most liked albums and the least liked albums and also the track lenghts, you can conclude that theoretically SU will be the least liked DMB album. but thats just shit, it will be better than SD and ED.

[road_designer]

So basically, you want the album to be exactly what is played live.

That's not what I want. I'd rather have an album of shorter (not too short), more concise songs, and then watch those songs be expanded into greater songs when played live.

The pre-BTCS albums only had a few songs that were over 6 minutes long. Tripping Billies, Ants Marching, Song That Jane Likes, etc., all songs that have become live staples.

You can form your opinions from the clips, if you don't like what you hear on the clips, that's perfectly fine. I just don't see how whether or not a studio song is great is determined by its length.

I want what you want. I also want you to concede that Hello Again is not proof that the short songs on the album have live potential. You have no proof. As a matter of fact only one new (post last year's tour) song, American Baby, has been played live and it was not jammed out.

[JonahB41]

im real surprised that in seven pages, no ones mentioned the fact that most of the some devils opened up tremendously on the dave and friends tour. although that was with the assistance of two soloing electric guitars, it was also without a sax and violin. dodo, trouble, too high... almost every song added something, whether an extended intro or a badass outro, but the songs were much thicker live. if you think every track on stand up will do this too, youre probably fooling yourself, but the idea that all of these will hardly change seems very unreal. daves most recent new album tour proved otherwise, batson said in the interview that the album is the starting-point for all dmb songs, and the songs all seem pretty loose, they wont be tough to jam out. im still real excited for summer.

j

[dmb24hickey]

Everyone Relax.....sure, I Prefer The Longer Studio Songs For The Most Part, But There Are So Many Great Studio Songs That Are In The Range Of Those That Will Be On Stand Up....but Dont Forget We Have Joy Ride, Trouble With You And The Mark And Carter Jam That We Can Mix Into Wherever We Choose If We Would Like..thus Making About 10-15 Minutes Longer..plus We Could Also Add Live Soundboard Version Of Sw, And At Our Will If We Choose Throw In Crazy Easy And Good Good Time As Well. Thats A Lot Of Music And I Thank Dmb For Allowing Us To Have Those Three Bsides And Multiple Live Cd Options

[msb3079]

Everyone Relax.....sure, I Prefer The Longer Studio Songs For The Most Part, But There Are So Many Great Studio Songs That Are In The Range Of Those That Will Be On Stand Up....but Dont Forget We Have Joy Ride, Trouble With You And The Mark And Carter Jam That We Can Mix Into Wherever We Choose If We Would Like..thus Making About 10-15 Minutes Longer..plus We Could Also Add Live Soundboard Version Of Sw, And At Our Will If We Choose Throw In Crazy Easy And Good Good Time As Well. Thats A Lot Of Music And I Thank Dmb For Allowing Us To Have Those Three Bsides And Multiple Live Cd Options


just an FYI -- if you did not Captalize The First Letter Of Every Word.... you could type waaaaay faster.

[dmb24hickey]

just an FYI -- if you did not Captalize The First Letter Of Every Word.... you could type waaaaay faster.

lol..yea i was typing in caps lock and if you do that i guess it turns every first letter into a capitalized letter...yea that is kinda hard on the eyes..."im an idiot. i knew that. why cant i remember that?" tommy boy

[msb3079]

hahah it's all gooooood

[nonewdirections]

Everyone Relax.....sure, I Prefer The Longer Studio Songs For The Most Part, But There Are So Many Great Studio Songs That Are In The Range Of Those That Will Be On Stand Up....but Dont Forget We Have Joy Ride, Trouble With You And The Mark And Carter Jam That We Can Mix Into Wherever We Choose If We Would Like..thus Making About 10-15 Minutes Longer..plus We Could Also Add Live Soundboard Version Of Sw, And At Our Will If We Choose Throw In Crazy Easy And Good Good Time As Well. Thats A Lot Of Music And I Thank Dmb For Allowing Us To Have Those Three Bsides And Multiple Live Cd Options

I Wonder If Typing Like This Requires Lots Of Use Of The Backspace Key, Or Just A Lot Of Attention To Detail.

Edit: Ah, Nevermind, Read The Other Post! :lol

[tdowe99]

Testing Testing Testing... Wow!

[Davenumber40]

I wish Smooth Rider was longer; I really dug that clip. Overall I'm starting to think I'm really gonna like this album. Sure I'm not a big fan or Dreamgirl or American Baby, but you can pick out 2 songs on almost every CD that you aren't crazy about.

[zeppelinman]

I can't believe these songs are so short. I'd rather have 7 good quality and lengthy songs but thats me. On another note, how much of SU do you guys think DMB will play this summer as far as album percentage per show?

[tyler1389]

i clocked it at being right at an hour long, compared to BTCS and Crash thats just about 7 minutes shorter in total length.

[cherone21]

Not worried about the album length, Like BATSON SAID THESE SONGS ARE MEANT TO EVOLVE LIVE AND i CANT WAIT TO HEAR SOME OF THEM BE 7 TO 10 MINUTES BY THE END OF THE SUMMER. WW000000000HOOOOOOOOOO

[cherone21]

These songs will evolve over time no need for any of us to worry

[dmbfan524]

this is the worst news ever...now im not really looking forward to anything....if they don't jam these songs out live...it could damn well be the end of them....right now im pissed looking at that

[zigbaldi]

its incouraging thinking that Hello Again is 3:52, because we know they will jam it out more live like they did all last year. So hopefully alot of the other songs will be more jammed-out come summer time

[cherone21]

They may not be jammed out the first year, but as time goes on they will lengthen, there is nothing to worry about

[dmb24hickey]

They may not be jammed out the first year, but as time goes on they will lengthen, there is nothing to worry about

totally agree with you...at first they will just have to get these songs and lyrics down in a live atmosphere...everyday songs did not evolve right away(wya,everyday etc..)..but i am sure by the time the end of the tour is here...the songs that the band feels need to evolve will evolve...and perhaps some will never be played live and some will not evolve and some will evolve years down the road...i mean too much just got a fresh outro last year..excluding ASTB in between.

[Jimithing2005]

another CD full of 3 minute, ready for radio pop hits....great....

[Sax#41]

wow seek up is almost half the length of the album....but thats why i perfer the live versions

[dmb24hickey]

"If you have Carter Beauford in the studio, you better get the fuck out of the way. When you've got a genius in your midst, get out of the way."

This is a great band, you know [Before These] Crowded Streets might be one of the best albums, so I'm saying, "What am I gonna do now with that, to evolve that?"

Mark Batson has one request for Stand Up listeners.
'Turn it up. Listen to it loud. Understand it emotionally."

STAND UP MAY 10TH

COUNTDOWN: 17 DAYS

[gummbey]

The track lengths are disappointing. Admittedly though Batson, in the interview, seemed to have a great philosophy for DMB but I honestly don't see it translated in the song clips we heard and the posted track lengths. I personally think Batson ultimately dominated the sessions. I also didn't like when Batson said these songs are basically outlines for how they will be played live in that interview. An album shouldn't be made with the idea that they will be revamped live. If they evolve live thats great but if they already know how they will be changed in the live setting, why not just put them on the album that way? Now we'll all have to be saying to people, "well this song kind of sucks on the album but you should hear it live." I don't want to be saying this.

[sonofsuns34]

These songs will evolve over time no need for any of us to worry

see also:
Angel extended ladies outro,
What you Are intro
Everyday--36
So Right roi solos

evolution will happen this summer and i cant wait for it

[nonewdirections]

Angel extended ladies outro

evolution will happen this summer and i cant wait for it

don't you mean devolution? :lol

seriously though, i don't think the everyday songs improved that much. the WYA intro was just a bunch of moaning. #36 threatens to finally make a comeback everytime everyday is played, but it will never happen. the songs ended up sounding mildly better live (even including "i did it"), but they didn't transform.

[dmb2much40]

see also:
Angel extended ladies outro,
What you Are intro
Everyday--36
So Right roi solos

evolution will happen this summer and i cant wait for it

making angel longer was not an improvement at all, it made it worse. and when's the last time they played so right? it was played 4 times in 2003 and 0 times last summer. i like roi's part, but they never play the song. and the 30 second #36 jam at the end of everyday does not qualify as #36. the devil's wine intros to WYA were ok, but that moaning stuff was horrible.

[nonewdirections]

making angel longer was not an improvement at all, it made it worse. and when's the last time they played so right? it was played 4 times in 2003 and 0 times last summer. i like roi's part, but they never play the song. and the 30 second #36 jam at the end of everyday does not qualify as #36. the devil's wine intros to WYA were ok, but that moaning stuff was horrible.

:thumbsup extension is only improvement when the song ... improves.

[gummbey]

I was just gonna mention all of this. you read my mind

[2stepsoright]

The only evolution good Angel made was that didn't play it in 2004.

[Sniper15]

The MF outro to What You Are though is awesome.

[dmb24hickey]

i agree with all of you..im not a big fan of everyday live..to me it just lacks energy...and is played too often to end the show..which i hate...but to say that the intro to wya is terrible is insane...perhaps you havent heard some of the versions i have ..but i think the intro and outro are excellent...but i agree that most songs from everyday did not evolve or evolve good...perhaps they didnt evolve ..but there is more band involvement...i.e. carters drumming in FTT is great

[ZildjianLudwig]

Since this thread is (supposedly) about the track lengths, here's another benchmark for comparision.

Two CDs for two (possibly very different?) college audiences are coming out May 10. "Stand Up" by DMB, and "Make Believe" by Weezer.

Average song length on Stand Up: 4:01
Average song length on Make Believe: 3:43

If a few years ago you had told me that DMB and Weezer would be averaging studio tracks within 20 seconds of one another, I would have punched you in the face. Now I just shake my head and say " I know, I know.... :lorraine "

[seekup31]

I cant wait for this album, looks to be a good album, not one of the classics, but I am sure I will like it. thanks you DMB, for providing us with such awesome music for 14 years!

[dmbfan524]

another CD full of 3 minute, ready for radio pop hits....great....



don't worry im with you. so far...everyday is kicking this album's ass. nothing really worth listening have i heard so far.

[jay41]

This album is going to blow you away. Y'all just wait and see ;)

[character zero]

songs are short on stand up now, but will def. be extended this summer to maybe 5-7 minutes, i dont know. for example, its kinda obvious that the sax-jam at the end of american baby will be extended.

just a thought:
how much of each show this summer is gonna be devoted to stand up songs? i've never seen a DM show right after the release of a new album (except for DM&F in '03). no matter how good stand up turns out to be, id still like to see the majority of the typical show involve older songs

[JiMiThiNG277]

songs are short on stand up now, but will def. be extended this summer to maybe 5-7 minutes, i dont know. for example, its kinda obvious that the sax-jam at the end of american baby will be extended.

just a thought:
how much of each show this summer is gonna be devoted to stand up songs? i've never seen a DM show right after the release of a new album (except for DM&F in '03). no matter how good stand up turns out to be, id still like to see the majority of the typical show involve older songs


at the LEAST i'd say they would only play 2, maybe somewhere around 3-4 on average?

[seekup31]

at the LEAST i'd say they would only play 2, maybe somewhere around 3-4 on average?

more than that man, i'd say 4 songs at least, max 6-7 a night, based on 1998, 2001, 2002.

[Dagwin]

songs are short on stand up n