What Would You Do Differently?

[dmbberkeley]

So, I searched for this and nothing really came up.If its already out there.. kill me I guess.

My intuition is that there are some really good musicians out there, and whether you like Stand Up or not, I'm sure that with every album there are subltle or grand changes that you (as a musician) would make no matter on your preference.

So my question then is: what would you have done differently, and why?

I guess to start it off I can say I would have added more bridges to the songs and focused less on the pre-choruses. It seems like a lot of the songs have extremely similar verses and choruses with little variance in the pathways they take to "find their way" through the maze of the song. I guess, I would choose to switch up the chords and the dynamics in these bridges so that they would intensify the differences between the verses and choruses. This would help out songs like Smooth Rider and in particular Louisiana Bayou.. anyone else have any ideas?

[Rob]

Creativity isn't in seeing how many instruments you can play on one album. While this created a different sound, it wasn't impressive. The true challenge is to create something new, unique, and beautiful within yourself, rather than artificially creating a new sound by playing musical chairs with your instruments.

For example, Stefan is an amazing bass player. He's a mediocre guitar player. Result? Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part sounds amateurish and cliché. This is the story of the album, unfortunately.

[sgrwill1]

this is a good idea for a thread

- i def would have given boyd and carter a little more room to do their thing. they both have some good parts on this album, but a little more could have been better.

- i would have made amer. baby intro into what she said (as some were calling it initially) and a full song to start off the album. this song couldve been really badass if it was a couple mins longer. maybe give smooth rider a full out jam at the end where everone can just go off.

-prob lose the "bring that beat back" thing.

those are just my 2 cents

[marlin1805]

Creativity isn't in seeing how many instruments you can play on one album. While this created a different sound, it wasn't impressive. The true challenge is to create something new, unique, and beautiful within yourself, rather than artificially creating a new sound by playing musical chairs with your instruments.

For example, Stefan is an amazing bass player. He's a mediocre guitar player. Result? Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part sounds amateurish and cliché. This is the story of the album, unfortunately.

I agree that HFAGL isn't the best song as are some others on the album that could've been scraped, but I think your underestimating the album. I am a musician, as I am pretty sure you are, and SU is a very good album IMO. The only thing that needs improvement is the lyrics - too much repetition (ie. American baby, american baby, american baby... stand up, stand up, stand up, stand up...)

I guess what I'm tyring to say is that I just wish more people appreciated the album as much as I do.

[JHacker]

For example, Stefan is an amazing bass player. He's a mediocre guitar player. Result? Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part sounds amateurish and cliché. This is the story of the album, unfortunately.


How can you say the guitar for Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part isn't great? Are you saying that it's not as difficult to play as other stuff? Because it's definately as catchy as their other tunes. By Stefan writing that part of the album it gave the album a slightly different twist. You need to rethink your standards.

[Rob]

Don't tell me that I need to rethink my standards, or that I need to like something that I do not. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. I respect those that enjoy the album, respect me. If that rule doesn't apply, then we can't have a civil conversation.

[Pee_Ride]

How can you say the guitar for Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part isn't great? Are you saying that it's not as difficult to play as other stuff? Because it's definately as catchy as their other tunes. By Stefan writing that part of the album it gave the album a slightly different twist. You need to rethink your standards.


I think he means, or at least my opinion of stefans guitar part is that it is a simple power chord progresion, not unlike what i used to play after a few months of playing. It is catchy but it doesnt show alot of skill.

[unccrombie]

i, too, also agree that HFTGL is cliche. i mean the riff is catchy, but its just like every other riff i hear it seems. it also not a sound that grabs my attention.

[greenpick41]

Creativity isn't in seeing how many instruments you can play on one album. While this created a different sound, it wasn't impressive. The true challenge is to create something new, unique, and beautiful within yourself, rather than artificially creating a new sound by playing musical chairs with your instruments.

For example, Stefan is an amazing bass player. He's a mediocre guitar player. Result? Hunger for the Great Light's guitar part sounds amateurish and cliché. This is the story of the album, unfortunately.
sweet, but what would you have done?

[Rob]

I think the implication was there. As a producer, I would challenge the band to come up with something within what made them special, challenging them to grow as musicians. What new sounds can they create within themselves? They have several albums, but musical possibilities are nearly endless.

Changing up instruments, sampling, drum machines, etc, all detract from what this band is capable of. You don't take a world class cellist and have him play a violin in an orchestra, and this is no different. This record allowed them to try something totally different, and hopefully they've flushed that from their systems. Every album, you need to look at it and ask- "Would they have gotten to where they are today had this been their debut album?" The answer is a resounding no- they'd be a Matchbox 20 or Smashmouth-type flash in the pan.

[Rizza]

I wish that we heard more of dave's acoustic rithum guitar. Dave is the pretty much the pioneer and savior of this style and what I always love, and many, many musicians have copied, is the sound of dave's pick hitting the strings (slapping if you will). If you listen to BTCS, you will hear songs like the last stop where this effect is actually given a channel. <-- I want to say dubbed, but, it isnt really dubbed, it is recorded live using a condensor mic that is set to only pick up the percussive pick slaps, then it is given its own channel on the mixing board and leveled. Sometimes, the "pick on a wash-board" technique doesnt even match the rythym guitar, but instead mimicks carter or is playing a completely different time sig.

What would be amazing is if dave took all unreleased songs and put them on an album, maybe spiced them up gently. I think the majority of us appreciate the band's all-acoustic style. Im not a big fan of the dubbed in effects AB-intro and I could swear that there is a drum machine on one of the AB tracks. Saddest thing about AB is that there really isnt a "raise the hair on my arms" jam. Its original though and I dont think the album is crap, I just dont know why the band feels so rushed when they record albums. YOU OWN YOUR OWN STUDIO. YOU ARE ALREADY A SUCCESSFUL BAND WHO DOESNT REALLY ANSWER TO ANY LABEL AND YOU DONT NEED TO CHURN OUT ALBUMS JUST TO MAKE MONEY. SO TAKE YOUR FUCKING TIME IN THE STUDIO. SPEND THREE YEARS PERFECTING THE NEXT ALBUM. And please, please, if Blue Water could find its way onto the next album, I would really like that. Thank you.

[greenpick41]

I think the implication was there. As a producer, I would challenge the band to come up with something within what made them special, challenging them to grow as musicians. What new sounds can they create within themselves? They have several albums, but musical possibilities are nearly endless.

Changing up instruments, sampling, drum machines, etc, all detract from what this band is capable of. You don't take a world class cellist and have him play a violin in an orchestra, and this is no different. This record allowed them to try something totally different, and hopefully they've flushed that from their systems. Every album, you need to look at it and ask- "Would they have gotten to where they are today had this been their debut album?" The answer is a resounding no- they'd be a Matchbox 20 or Smashmouth-type flash in the pan.
Interesting.

[JG2121]

This album needed a song with a slap bass line, its been years since we've gotten one of those in an album Dave tune!

[werkinsnake]

This is a great question, but a bit hard to answer.

From my musician view, the music is very simple (to DMB standards of course)
From my "just listening to music" view, the songs are catchy and there's something about them that I like.

Is anything from this album going to be the next Dazed and Confused, Sgt. Pepper, or even The Stone? No.

Will my copy of the album eventually be used as a coaster? Ha, no way in hell.

[dmbberkeley]

Wow, I have to say reading these responses is awesome. I was just starting this thread out of curiousity, and at first the discussion was going nowhere because people were caught up in "liking" or "not liking" the album. But after that one or two posts, this thread is rocking. Keep the ideas coming...some of these I think are really brilliant, especially the idea of having a dedicated channel for dave's guitar.

The aspect of digital sound modeling, that is something we could definitely discuss here more. I think that Dave could really do well if they found their signature digital filter! Look at AB intro... I think its amazing.
Just as with any music, finding the signature sound if you are trying to make a new version of the style for yourself is incredibly important. Im not really sure they were able to do so with this new album, but the effort was really there. Hopefully, they can try to find it on the road and come back with an ecclectic mix of acoustic and digital filtering that makes sense in more ways than SU, but thats just my opinion. I really dont know how to find this for DMB, but hopefully they do :)In any case, its going to happen.

Carter is going to come back with a vengence.. because the one giant complaint with this album is where the hell is Carter.. and I think he'll take note. Everyone can say, oh why should he care.. if it makes him happy he wont change. But I can tell you that I believe musicians have a very personal take on the reaction of their fans.. and based on what I've heard, or read, I think Carter will make changes to these new songs live, and never allow himself to sound like a cheap synthetic again.The reaction eventually does catch up to the musician, its just natural. Anyone?

[jamjumpin]

What's the point in a drum machine when you have a drummer, listen to The Roots, ?uestlove can immitate any drum machine, just cos Carter is known for his 'busy' playing doesn't mean he couldn't just sit back for once and play whatever boring beat the producer wanted, the drum machine is what really ruins this album for me.

[winterscold]

better lyrics, and a little bit more naked sound to the album. A little too overproduced, especially Everybody Wake up

[JCork15]

OK- here is my opinion

Stand Up - DMB's attempt to combine the success of the mainstream Everyday with the more accepted Busted Stuff, while still attempting to raise the bar and try new things. Did they pass with flying colors? No. And that is because this is hard to do. Although most of us would probably agree Everyday is not our favorite, it did sell 700,000+ copies or something like that. DMB would love to reach those numbers and still be accepted by their diehard fans but its almost impossible to please everyone. Here is what I would have done as a producer:

First- have dave write new songs on acoustic guitar. record these 15 or so songs as a rough demo of singing and playing. I know this process takes a long time, but should he have to rush it.

Next- Present these songs to the band to listen in on and state their likes/dislikes and things that they would keep or change. Everyone would have their own copy of the new acoustic material and the other members would take the demo cd and practice with it, write new music too it, write lyrical ideas.

After everyone has time with the new music, bring the band back together to talk it through and listen to each track. At this point a month is taken of pure rehearsal time where the band gets to play the songs together, add jamming, practice solos and perfect the vocals.

After this time the band is brought back in to record. The recording process is done the standard way with a scratch track and over dubs, no drum machines, no extra flair. Just the band doing what made it so popular in the first place.

** I know it could take a long time but it's worth it in my opinion. You can say that the rest of the band doesnt have enough say in the writing process, but really in the begining dave was the one who wrote the music, arranged for acoustic. I dont mind the new songs its just that I feel they were somewhat rushed lyrically and there isnt enough room for the band to do what it does.

What happened to the band who used to rock out on WWYS or the messages in Typical Situation. The tightness of #41, and the passion of DDTW... i miss it a lot and im wondering if we'll ever return to that or simply get failed attempts

[Minaret421]

Don't tell me that I need to rethink my standards, or that I need to like something that I do not. Everybody is entitled to an opinion. I respect those that enjoy the album, respect me. If that rule doesn't apply, then we can't have a civil conversation.

Yeah, but you didn't just say you don't like it, you said it was amateur, and it definately isn't. I am pretty sure no ones feelings will be hurt if you don't like the song, but it doesn't mean it is an amateur song.

Could you have written this song? I highly doubt any of us could write a song as good as it here.

For The record, I like Hunger.

[Minaret421]

I think he means, or at least my opinion of stefans guitar part is that it is a simple power chord progresion, not unlike what i used to play after a few months of playing. It is catchy but it doesnt show alot of skill.Just because the chords aren't impossible to play, or extremely difficult does not mean it's not a good song or that it is amateur, that's just a really lame ass thing to say.

Don't Drink The Water is easy shit to play on the guitar, does that mean that it is an amateur song and it's not very good? Hardly.