Looking for a 12 String....Need Help

[GLR87]

Im looking for the best 12 string I can get for around 200-400 dollars or cheaper of course...Ive seen a couple but havent played any yet GC doesnt really have alot of 12 strings around me atleast...I have seen a couple that look good but want to know what you guys think..
Applause AE35-4 $299 Acoustic/Electric
http://www.musiciansbestbuy.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/AE35-4.gif
Epiphone DR-200 12-String $200 Acoustic
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/2/3/274923.jpg

But compared to those this one looks so much better but it is expensive...The thing is my six string is the exact same guitar....and it is still expensive.
Seagull S12+ Acoustic $420
http://images.misupply.com/products/originalrect/Seagull/234202.jpg

Any advice or suggestions would be great

[HolyCow]

I checked out the Seagull 12 string a couple of weeks ago. I wasn't that impressed. I had heard going in that the action was sub-par and it was. And that is not something, IMO, that you can sacrifice in a 12 String.

I recently played a Yamaha A/E 12 string and I was very impressed with it. Good action, good tone, good feel. Check one out....I think it was $450.

[nonewdirections]

I have an entry-level Alvarez RD8012 (I'm pretty sure it's an RD80; they change around their model designations and my guitar isn't in my hands to check) and it's served me well. Alvarez 12's have great action and a surprisingly bright and strong tone. Not very bassy at all, but sound a good deal more expensive than the $300 it'll set you back. Good feel, and even though you can tell where they cut costs, I get the impression that no one makes cheap 12's better than Alvarez. They sound good and are incredibly easy to play. Let me put it this way -- songs with long slides are easier on it than on my Taylor Big Baby, by a large degree.

[nonewdirections]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/518726/
My Alvarez 12. I'll let you know that I paid $280, so maybe some shopping around will save you some money. It's possible that they changed it some, but from the look of it and going on what the specs look like, it can't be $40 better than the outgoing model.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/518792/
A level up in quality and price. Comes with electronics and looks really good with really light maple back and sides. I liked this one even more than the one I ended up getting, but it was signifcantly more expensive and I was unsure about the jumbo body. The problem with the jumbo body is that although it improves the sound, it might get a little ungainly in certain situations. Great action and playability, and actually feels like an expensive guitar.

edit: ok, apparently no electronics on that one.

[ZaqDiesel]

Know this when you're buying a 12 string--cheap ones (i.e. the guitars in your price range) are more trouble than they're worth. first of all, good luck getting them to stay in tune for more than 10 minutes of playing. second, the action is so high on them you'll need fingers of steel to play for more than the 10 minutes it'll actually be in tune. third, the sound is generally not pleasing and is relatively all midrange with little or no bass, and the trebble is quite shrill sounding.

For $500 you can get a used Taylor 355 12 string. It may not look too fancy, but trust me, these guitars are the best sounding 12 strings you'll play for this price (and close if you pass on this one)
Ebay Taylor 355 12 string:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAYLOR-355-12-STRING-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-USED_W0QQitemZ7360159709QQcategoryZ33031QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Rob]

I picked up a Washburn 12 awhile back. It's solid wood, and the cheaper price comes from the mass-production factor- it shares everything but the headstock, truss rod, and bridge with its six-string sister. As such, it has a very narrow neck (for a 12), sounds good for a guitar in the price range, and is subject to all the wonderful drawbacks of a real-wood instrument.

[nonewdirections]

Know this when you're buying a 12 string--cheap ones (i.e. the guitars in your price range) are more trouble than they're worth. first of all, good luck getting them to stay in tune for more than 10 minutes of playing. second, the action is so high on them you'll need fingers of steel to play for more than the 10 minutes it'll actually be in tune. third, the sound is generally not pleasing and is relatively all midrange with little or no bass, and the trebble is quite shrill sounding.

For $500 you can get a used Taylor 355 12 string. It may not look too fancy, but trust me, these guitars are the best sounding 12 strings you'll play for this price (and close if you pass on this one)
Ebay Taylor 355 12 string:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAYLOR-355-12-STRING-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-USED_W0QQitemZ7360159709QQcategoryZ33031QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That's very clever to say, but it's not true. There are cheap guitars with good action. Sure, not every brand out there is a winner, but Alvarez happens to make very easy and smooth guitars for a fraction of the cost of a new Taylor. I'd say you could run into many more problems getting the wrong used guitar. Also, my Alvarez stays in tune for days. Cheap often means lower quality, but not always. The only fault with it is that it doesn't feel as well-built as a Martin or Taylor and it doesn't have the bass punch or tonal quality of a more expensive instrument. But for $280, that's a minor complaint.

[Carbon Copy]

i actually like the ovation 12 strings

[HolyCow]

I picked up a Washburn 12 awhile back. It's solid wood, and the cheaper price comes from the mass-production factor- it shares everything but the headstock, truss rod, and bridge with its six-string sister. As such, it has a very narrow neck (for a 12), sounds good for a guitar in the price range, and is subject to all the wonderful drawbacks of a real-wood instrument.

:thumbsup I played a Washburn 12 last week. I liked it.

[GLR87]

Know this when you're buying a 12 string--cheap ones (i.e. the guitars in your price range) are more trouble than they're worth. first of all, good luck getting them to stay in tune for more than 10 minutes of playing. second, the action is so high on them you'll need fingers of steel to play for more than the 10 minutes it'll actually be in tune. third, the sound is generally not pleasing and is relatively all midrange with little or no bass, and the trebble is quite shrill sounding.

For $500 you can get a used Taylor 355 12 string. It may not look too fancy, but trust me, these guitars are the best sounding 12 strings you'll play for this price (and close if you pass on this one)
Ebay Taylor 355 12 string:
http://cgi.ebay.com/TAYLOR-355-12-STRING-ACOUSTIC-GUITAR-USED_W0QQitemZ7360159709QQcategoryZ33031QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


I dissagree with that because from the reviews I've read people have really mentioned that some of the ones I have been looking at have very good action and stay in tune very well i understand what you are saying though Of course I'd want a taylor if I had the money they are in my opinion the best acoustics in the world...even better then martin and gibson..

[Rob]

That was a really, really long sentence.

[ZaqDiesel]

That's very clever to say, but it's not true. There are cheap guitars with good action. Sure, not every brand out there is a winner, but Alvarez happens to make very easy and smooth guitars for a fraction of the cost of a new Taylor. I'd say you could run into many more problems getting the wrong used guitar. Also, my Alvarez stays in tune for days. Cheap often means lower quality, but not always. The only fault with it is that it doesn't feel as well-built as a Martin or Taylor and it doesn't have the bass punch or tonal quality of a more expensive instrument. But for $280, that's a minor complaint.

First of all, I'm not trying to knock any particular brand. I'm merely making a statement that is true 99.99% of the time. You get what you pay for. Second, I challenge you to find me a 12 string guitar for $500 or less with low action AND great bass punch and tonal quality.....

If ebay makes you uneasy, there are other routes to go. Check pawn shops in your area, check out your local gutiar store for used models. You can also check out www.acousticguitarforum.com (formerly the Taylor guitar forum). There are very knowledgable and honest folks over there who sell great guitars all the time. I have bought and sold there in the past without any problems at all.

People would be so much happier if they could exercise some self-control and not just buy an inferior guitar just to have one now. Just save up a little money and buy the right guitar the first time...you'll save in the long run.

[| rockinfreak |]

I really do like the feel of the alvarez 12's...I've always been a fan of their acoustics. I buy more expensive models for myself, but whenever I play a friends $300 Alvarez I'm impressed and often wish I had one just to kick around. On a side note, I really don't know how anyone can buy a guitar off of ebay...how can you invest money in an instrument that you have never played or heard? For me its all about hands on before you buy.

[crozetiga]

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/518726/
My Alvarez 12. I'll let you know that I paid $280, so maybe some shopping around will save you some money. It's possible that they changed it some, but from the look of it and going on what the specs look like, it can't be $40 better than the outgoing model.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=home/search/detail/base_pid/518792/
A level up in quality and price. Comes with electronics and looks really good with really light maple back and sides. I liked this one even more than the one I ended up getting, but it was signifcantly more expensive and I was unsure about the jumbo body. The problem with the jumbo body is that although it improves the sound, it might get a little ungainly in certain situations. Great action and playability, and actually feels like an expensive guitar.

edit: ok, apparently no electronics on that one.

The Alvarez AJ60S-12 is an awesome guitar!! I had one for about 2 years before i upgraded to a Taylor 655 custom. I loved the guitar and I hated to see it go. I had the version that had the pickup and the preamp and I bought it for about $400 brand new on ebay. You can get used ones on ebay even cheaper than that. The guitar had great action and stayed in tune well and even had a tuner built into the preamp. I would highly recommend this 12 string.

Josh

[Dmbsst]

I have an Alvarez 12 as well not sure the model but I payed just over $200 for it brand new at a local store. I love the sound and it holds tunre amazingly well for a cheapy. Its perfect for my needs highly recomend it.

[mattinbeloit]

I have an entry-level Alvarez RD8012 (I'm pretty sure it's an RD80; they change around their model designations and my guitar isn't in my hands to check) and it's served me well. Alvarez 12's have great action and a surprisingly bright and strong tone. Not very bassy at all, but sound a good deal more expensive than the $300 it'll set you back. Good feel, and even though you can tell where they cut costs, I get the impression that no one makes cheap 12's better than Alvarez. They sound good and are incredibly easy to play. Let me put it this way -- songs with long slides are easier on it than on my Taylor Big Baby, by a large degree.

I was about to say the same thing. I liked it better than any of the ta ylor 12's.

[mattinbeloit]

First of all, I'm not trying to knock any particular brand. I'm merely making a statement that is true 99.99% of the time. You get what you pay for. Second, I challenge you to find me a 12 string guitar for $500 or less with low action AND great bass punch and tonal quality.....

If ebay makes you uneasy, there are other routes to go. Check pawn shops in your area, check out your local gutiar store for used models. You can also check out www.acousticguitarforum.com (http://www.acousticguitarforum.com) (formerly the Taylor guitar forum). There are very knowledgable and honest folks over there who sell great guitars all the time. I have bought and sold there in the past without any problems at all.

People would be so much happier if they could exercise some self-control and not just buy an inferior guitar just to have one now. Just save up a little money and buy the right guitar the first time...you'll save in the long run.

First of all just because something does not sound like a taylor does not make it bad. Different soudning guitars sound good to different ppl. Also, if the action is too high, just lower it.

[ZaqDiesel]

First of all just because something does not sound like a taylor does not make it bad. Different soudning guitars sound good to different ppl. Also, if the action is too high, just lower it.

First, i'm not saying Taylor is the only decent 12 string guitar. I have played many Martin, Yamaha, and even Ovation 12 strings with superior tone and playability when compared to cheaper instruments. Second, just lowering the action doesn't solve all problems. Remember, the closer the strings get to the fretboard the less room they have to vibrate freely--that means more vibration noise from the strings against the fretboard and less volume--which adds up to poorer tone on a cheaper 12 string. IMO and in my own experience, I caution strongly against just buying an instrument to have it. Save up a little bit and buy a quality instrument the first time around. That's all I'm saying.

[nonewdirections]

I think you are overrating cost as a factor in purchasing guitars. It's about the right guitar, not the most expensive one you can afford. I just got a $400 electric guitar that I would rather have over its $1000 equivalent.

[ZaqDiesel]

I think you are overrating cost as a factor in purchasing guitars. It's about the right guitar, not the most expensive one you can afford. I just got a $400 electric guitar that I would rather have over its $1000 equivalent.

It's not about cost, it's about quality. And when it comes to the quality and workmanship of musical instruments, you get what you pay for. Plain and simple. To say otherwise is naive. That's not to say that less expensive instruments are useless, they certainly have their purpose. But I will always caution somebody who wants something just to have it now to wait and buy an instrument for the right reason. Something just doesn't add up when someone says I want the best instrument that sounds and plays like a $1000 guitar, but I only want to spend $200. There are differences between the two that are very noticeable. In my first post I simply pointed out that for around $500 you can find used guitars in excellent condition that will blow a $300 new guitar out of the water in terms of playability, tone, and construction. He was looking to spend no more than $400, so I suggested saving an extra $100 to get a superior instrument.

I'm happy that you're satisfied with your $400 electric guitar, no sarcasm intended :) But electrics are different beasts than acoustics...

[nonewdirections]

It's not about cost, it's about quality. And when it comes to the quality and workmanship of musical instruments, you get what you pay for. Plain and simple. To say otherwise is naive. That's not to say that less expensive instruments are useless, they certainly have their purpose. But I will always caution somebody who wants something just to have it now to wait and buy an instrument for the right reason. Something just doesn't add up when someone says I want the best instrument that sounds and plays like a $1000 guitar, but I only want to spend $200. There are differences between the two that are very noticeable. In my first post I simply pointed out that for around $500 you can find used guitars in excellent condition that will blow a $300 new guitar out of the water in terms of playability, tone, and construction. He was looking to spend no more than $400, so I suggested saving an extra $100 to get a superior instrument.

I'm happy that you're satisfied with your $400 electric guitar, no sarcasm intended :) But electrics are different beasts than acoustics...

Definitely. A good acoustic will on average cost you more than a good electric.

My main point is that you can get a good new acoustic guitar for under $500, and I mean good by any reasonable standards. Good build, good sound, durable construction, easy to play, all that nice stuff. You do have to shop around though. The average sub-$500 acoustic isn't much good, but there are exceptions. I don't think you are guaranteed to get a great acoustic guitar simply by spending more money. You are more likely to, obviously, but you could very easily get a guitar that isn't good for you, and be $1000+ down til you find out what to do with it.

For example, I think I'd rather have a $500 Alvarez over a $900 Martin. There definitely isn't $400 difference in quality/play between guitars like that. To most people, without paying attention to the name on the headstock, the Alvarez would be worth every penny of what the Martin would be worth.

[ZaqDiesel]

For example, I think I'd rather have a $500 Alvarez over a $900 Martin. There definitely isn't $400 difference in quality/play between guitars like that. To most people, without paying attention to the name on the headstock, the Alvarez would be worth every penny of what the Martin would be worth.

You're 100% right when you say that. I've been in the boat where I've had a $600 Martin and it was essentially no different from the first Yamaha guitar I learned to play on. The difference comes in when you talk about customer service and the guarantee--lifetime for Martin and Taylor (and probably some more of the "high end" guitars) vs a couple of years for most other manufacturers.

I think the problem is that the majority of people who pay a couple hundred bucks for a guitar unrealistically expect it to play and sound like a $1000+ guitar. This is especially true when speaking of 12 string gutiars. As long as that expectation is not there, there are definitely good buys around the $500 range. And used guitars are always a good option if you buy from a reliable and trustworthy source, especially when you're looking for a "fun" guitar.

[nonewdirections]

You're 100% right when you say that. I've been in the boat where I've had a $600 Martin and it was essentially no different from the first Yamaha guitar I learned to play on. The difference comes in when you talk about customer service and the guarantee--lifetime for Martin and Taylor (and probably some more of the "high end" guitars) vs a couple of years for most other manufacturers.

I think the problem is that the majority of people who pay a couple hundred bucks for a guitar unrealistically expect it to play and sound like a $1000+ guitar. This is especially true when speaking of 12 string gutiars. As long as that expectation is not there, there are definitely good buys around the $500 range. And used guitars are always a good option if you buy from a reliable and trustworthy source, especially when you're looking for a "fun" guitar.

With each post, we come closer and closer to consensus. :)

So, anyway, what kind of guitar(s) do you play?

I have a Taylor Big Baby, which definitely does not play like a guitar twice its price, but plays (and definitely sounds) a lot better than some guitars a bit more pricey. It was my first guitar and it's fun to knock around, but if I had to replace it, I'd get a proper mid-range acoustic. I also have an low-end Alvarez 12 which I've mentioned in this thread. It gets the job done and has great action. Really smooth feel.

My new Danelectro is my new primary guitar. Beautiful design (in look and feel) and very easy and fun to play. A lot more versatile and better feeling compared to an identically priced Fender Mexican Strat, at least in my hands. It also sounds a hell of a lot better stock.

[ZaqDiesel]

Well, since I've started medical school I've had to liquidate almost my entire collection due to lack of time and lack of money. Right now all I have left is my Taylor 614ces. I have recently sold a Taylor 410ce, a Martin DM, a Yamaha FG412-12string guitar, and an Ibanez AEF18. Suffice it to say I've owned and played all levels of acoustic guitars, and I speak with experience. As I've grown as a guitar player I've found it's better to hold out for the higher end instruments not only for their ease of playing, but also because they hold their value at resale. To save for one guitar whose sound you're truly inspired by will make you want to play more and become a better musician. That is why I always caution against impulse buys when it comes to guitars. So for the person who started this thread, if what you want is just a "fun" guitar then go ahead and get a lower end 12 string. But if you truly want to become proficient with a 12 string, I highly recommend saving for a better guitar whose sound you'll truly love (rather than trying to convince yourself you like it just because you shelled out a couple hundred bucks).

[GLR87]

As I've grown as a guitar player I've found it's better to hold out for the higher end instruments not only for their ease of playing, but also because they hold their value at resale. To save for one guitar whose sound you're truly inspired by will make you want to play more and become a better musician. That is why I always caution against impulse buys when it comes to guitars. So for the person who started this thread, if what you want is just a "fun" guitar then go ahead and get a lower end 12 string. But if you truly want to become proficient with a 12 string, I highly recommend saving for a better guitar
well if your a better guitar player then why does the ease of playing matter...Taylor and martin are not the only acoustic guitars...my seagull 6 string sounds just as good as most of the Taylor and Martin's...

[jBURCH]

danm that was a lot of long posts so im just going to skip the last few and put in my .02. mines an alright martin 12string, not sure the exact number, but she plays pretty nice with a set of new elixirs. i think it was appx. 650

[ZaqDiesel]

well if your a better guitar player then why does the ease of playing matter...Taylor and martin are not the only acoustic guitars...my seagull 6 string sounds just as good as most of the Taylor and Martin's...

First of all, who wants to work twice as hard to press down on the strings if they don't have to? Who doesn't mind a comfortable neck with a nice fretboard and perfectly cut frets so they can slide up and down the neck easily and without running into sharp edges? These are the problems you tend to run in to with a lot of mass produced, entry level guitars.

Second, I'm not saying Taylor and Martin are the only acoustic guitars, and my intent is certainly not to knock other guitar makers. If you actually read this thread you'd see that 99.9% of my remarks in this post are made solely about 12 string guitars. It is no secret that the less expensive models, genarlly speaking, do not sound as well rounded or play as easy as more expensive 12 string models. I'm happy for you that your Seagull sounds the way you like. In the end that's what is the most important thing. The purpose of my posting here was only to steer the original starter of this thread in a slightly different direction regarding 12 string guitars, so let's not get all defensive here...

[GLR87]

First of all, who wants to work twice as hard to press down on the strings if they don't have to? Who doesn't mind a comfortable neck with a nice fretboard and perfectly cut frets so they can slide up and down the neck easily and without running into sharp edges? These are the problems you tend to run in to with a lot of mass produced, entry level guitars.

...
Yeah I agree

[GLR87]

Btw I just bought a takamine fom the 80's when they were being made by martin looks just like a martin...its so damn nice 399.99 w/ tax 423.99 so Im happy