"The Role of a Good Bass Player"

[dpresti]

So yesterday I was in my local music store talking to the employees as I often do, and we began to discuss who as the most important role in the band. I am a bass player in the band "Free Henry", however I do play all instruments. I'm making a thread on this because they said some stuff that I found interesting and wanted to get the opinions of other musicians. The one worker said 1st of all, "the key to any good band is a great drummer, after that the bassists because he has the tough job of molding the drums and guitar together, good bass is essential..."

the other worker said "i can fake playing guitar well, but bass, theres no faking, you have to be on your game all the time!"

This really hit home to me, because there are so many people out there who feel bass players are just up there playing root notes and not doing anything hard or talented. However, personally when my band comes up with a song, I attack it with the mindset of finding a groove and sticking to it, while just being solid! In other words, I feel its more important to be a SOLID, in the pocket bass player who comes up with awesome grooves. As we all know Stefan is great at this. But, after hearing these guys talk about how bass player are so important to a good band, i really go tthe urge to practice with my band and make sure all my stuff is tight!

What are you thoughts on bass player roles? and their talent? what makes a bass player good, and solid to you? are you looking for a slapper or a groover?

[nakedguydmb]

a lot of people have that thought about bass players just being up there playing root notes and not holding songs down because there ARE tons of bass players who do exactly that.

but yes, the guys at the store were right about what it takes to actually be good as a bass player.

but there are also times when a good bass player over-plays and makes things worse. i know a guy who wishes he could drink the sweat of victor wooten. and while he can do some of the licks, he tries to get too crazy and often comes back from fills behind the beat. so there needs to be a nice marrying of talent and restraint.

[dpresti]

good response my friend.. thats where i'm at now with my band, i'm trying to just groove and fill with a good mix.. making everything glue together

[Mr. Vertical]

being a bassplayer I have to aagree, solid rhythm section is the bed the melody and harmony make love in (cheezy analogy). I also agree that we as bass may try to do to much sometimes ala Victor Wooten. Try to play with musicians who don't play blues patterns, if you are looking to play "outside". When I started I didn't want to be a root/fifth walking blues type player. But you need to know these fundementals, I read james jameison said" you need to learn to walk before you run". When a song is introduced to the band I stick with roots or find a groove until the arrangment is solidified then I'll start to strech out. I like to use the whole neck and try different parts in different spots. If someone says your to busy and its not supporting the song then simplify. But if your guitar player wants you to simplify because you treading on his ego, then say " would you tell Flea or Les Claypool to simplify". If you hear something in your head that will make the song better, stick with what you think will improve the song. It is allways about the song. Music is not for people to show off and say "look at this amazing guitar solo I'm so fast and wicked". If that solo doesn't support the song than whats the point. Join a 80's tribute band if you need your ego stroked.

[dpresti]

being a bassplayer I have to aagree, solid rhythm section is the bed the melody and harmony make love in (cheezy analogy). I also agree that we as bass may try to do to much sometimes ala Victor Wooten. Try to play with musicians who don't play blues patterns, if you are looking to play "outside". When I started I didn't want to be a root/fifth walking blues type player. But you need to know these fundementals, I read james jameison said" you need to learn to walk before you run". When a song is introduced to the band I stick with roots or find a groove until the arrangment is solidified then I'll start to strech out. I like to use the whole neck and try different parts in different spots. If someone says your to busy and its not supporting the song then simplify. But if your guitar player wants you to simplify because you treading on his ego, then say " would you tell Flea or Les Claypool to simplify". If you hear something in your head that will make the song better, stick with what you think will improve the song. It is allways about the song. Music is not for people to show off and say "look at this amazing guitar solo I'm so fast and wicked". If that solo doesn't support the song than whats the point. Join a 80's tribute band if you need your ego stroked.


Great input!! thank you very much, a lot of good stuff in there

[JG2121]

I always try to complement the drums first, my favorite thing to do is to play notes along with the kick drum. Meat and Potatoes bass lines usually work best, but if there's no harm adding a little melody every now and then.

As long as I doesn't take away from the song.

[Haiku Jimi]

I've been getting into Jack Bruce's stuff from Cream a lot lately...he played it like a rhythm guitar at times. And can't go without mentioning JPJ...I know there are better technical players out there, but him and Bonzo kept that damn band going. That's why Page could afford to be sloppy live, he had them to fall back on :)

[tyler1389]

We are introducing a bass player to our band, and we have a show saturday. We've practiced twice, and I'm afraid that some of the stuff he's doing is too busy, like playing quarter or eigth notes on some choruses. What can I tell him that will chill it out without oversimplifying it? I don't want him to just play roots, are there any other tricks we can use?

[saxman1083]

My band's bass player is a classically trained guitarist, and I would have to say he is what makes our band sound like our band. His abilities open the rest of us up to do so much more with our music making. I have all the respect in the world for solid bassists who can groove hard without sounding over done. It is true that the bass and drums hold the band together, so how could you have a good band without good bass and drums?

[jk333]

bass is important and a huge addition... but i don't think its the 2nd most important piece of a band... drummer then guitar/piano rhythm instrument i'd say, then bass, then melody over the top.

two examples of this, are, 1) guster doesn't even have a bassist. and 2) the pumpkins mine as well not have had one. if the bassist is the 2nd most important instrument then jimmy chamberlin is 100X better than carter because holy shit darcy is an awful bassist (both in bass line and execution)...

[JG2121]

We are introducing a bass player to our band, and we have a show saturday. We've practiced twice, and I'm afraid that some of the stuff he's doing is too busy, like playing quarter or eigth notes on some choruses. What can I tell him that will chill it out without oversimplifying it? I don't want him to just play roots, are there any other tricks we can use?

That's kind of a sticky question that depends very much on the groove of the song, the way the chords are being played, and the drumming.

The bass puts emphasis on a given note in the chord, it HAS to start on the root but can move to other notes in the key, or the chord that is being played. Any new notes will change the way the song feels though, so alot of the time you have to tread lightly when writing notey bass lines.

[cgroman]

[/QUOTE]two examples of this, are, 1) guster doesn't even have a bassist. and 2) the pumpkins mine as well not have had one. if the bassist is the 2nd most important instrument then jimmy chamberlin is 100X better than carter because holy shit darcy is an awful bassist (both in bass line and execution)...[/QUOTE]

Well, while that may be the case in those bands, the idea of a non-essential bassist is a rarity at best.

Think of a band like the food pyramid, with the same hierarchy of needs. On the top you have things like solos, which are 'sweet and tasty,' but not really necessary. After that, you have things like Vocals and melody lines, which are what you walk away remembering. But then you have the drums and bass, which, like the 'bread' portion, aren't very pronounced. You might not directly register them while they're there, but when they drop out, there's a void there that you can't really replace.

Having said that, a good bass player should be conscious of what's going on in the song at all times, never taking away from the melody, but always building with it and complementing it. Think about some recent bands with 'good' bass players - RHCP, Rage, Tool, Bela, DMB, Incubus, Pearl Jam, etc... they all have the running pattern of a strong drummer complementing a conscious bass player. Each bassist in those bands can play aggressively, but don't do so unless it's right for the song. Going further back the pattern's the same, whether it be 70's funk, 50's motown, or 30's-50's Jazz. Good drummer, strong, well-minded bass player.

[earl]

I've been getting into Jack Bruce's stuff from Cream a lot lately...he played it like a rhythm guitar at times. And can't go without mentioning JPJ...I know there are better technical players out there, but him and Bonzo kept that damn band going. That's why Page could afford to be sloppy live, he had them to fall back on :)

I always thought Clapton played his best in Cream cause of Jack Bruce pushing him. Or maybe it was the heroin.

Ditto on Page, and I always thought McCartney was underrated as a bassist, he's just so melodic. Something like Ob La Di, the bassline line is so simple and basic but its perfect for the context and drives the song. Same with Carry That Weight.

[jk333]

[/QUOTE]Well, while that may be the case in those bands, the idea of a non-essential bassist is a rarity at best.

Think of a band like the food pyramid, with the same hierarchy of needs. On the top you have things like solos, which are 'sweet and tasty,' but not really necessary. After that, you have things like Vocals and melody lines, which are what you walk away remembering. But then you have the drums and bass, which, like the 'bread' portion, aren't very pronounced. You might not directly register them while they're there, but when they drop out, there's a void there that you can't really replace.
.[/QUOTE]

i agreed with you mostly... but in making a song, do u disagree that 1)drummer 2) piano/rhythm guitar are the 2 most important things??? i think that you could argue that three would be bass guitar to join the previous two but i don't think you can say that the 2 most important things to a song are a drum beat and a bass rhythm. i strongly feel the bass rhythm/beat is third. you have to have somthing to form the song and something to time the song, which i feel makes the rhytm guitar/piano and drums necessary. and after you add the bass you can add the melody, i do agree that it is the final piece to be added with lyrics/vocals coming before solos...

i just feel songs with just drums-bass-horn/string sections are the exception and not the rule. you need something with chords (this is a musical term to this, which i forget) to fall back on.

[earl]

i just feel songs with just drums-bass-horn/string sections are the exception and not the rule. you need something with chords (this is a musical term to this, which i forget) to fall back on.

What about power trios? But I guess when you're Clapton, SRV, or Hendrix you don't need much to fall back on.

[cgroman]

Well, I think it's mostly an issue of you can't have one without the other. You can't really have a band without that piano element, whether it be piano itself, or rhythm guitar, etc. But you can't live without bass, or drums, either. You're right in saying that without those aspects music can be boring, but earl also makes a good point with power trios. I just think that they're the most important because it's the ground level of a full band, they're just necessary. But hey, I'm biased, I'm trying to make a living playing bass, so I guess maybe I'm just trying to secure employment

[AshkaanF]

I just finished a 3000 word research paper on the evolution of the bassist. Great bassists like Lesh, Wooten, Pastorius, etc are the greatest because they can both hold a steady groove, as well as lead the band in improv or create melody and texture. A good bassist can even be considered a lead player. Check out the Panic Freaks boards. Dave Schools is called the lead guitarist over there :lol

[JG2121]

Well, while that may be the case in those bands, the idea of a non-essential bassist is a rarity at best.

Think of a band like the food pyramid, with the same hierarchy of needs. On the top you have things like solos, which are 'sweet and tasty,' but not really necessary. After that, you have things like Vocals and melody lines, which are what you walk away remembering. But then you have the drums and bass, which, like the 'bread' portion, aren't very pronounced. You might not directly register them while they're there, but when they drop out, there's a void there that you can't really replace.

Having said that, a good bass player should be conscious of what's going on in the song at all times, never taking away from the melody, but always building with it and complementing it. Think about some recent bands with 'good' bass players - RHCP, Rage, Tool, Bela, DMB, Incubus, Pearl Jam, etc... they all have the running pattern of a strong drummer complementing a conscious bass player. Each bassist in those bands can play aggressively, but don't do so unless it's right for the song. Going further back the pattern's the same, whether it be 70's funk, 50's motown, or 30's-50's Jazz. Good drummer, strong, well-minded bass player.

I really liked this. It really got to the heart of what we've been discussing.
When there's no bass there are frequencies not being used. That's why a band like say The White Stripes have a kind of hollow sound. When it works it works but it will never be the norm.

[Pig17]

The role of a good bass player is to stand their and look happy, occasionally looking over at his band mates and smiling. He is their as a decoy to complete the band and should never solo because no one in the audience ever has any idea that they are. :)













j/k Victor Wooten is the epitomy of a great bass player and Stefan is good in his own regard.

[adzack3441]

No its more like Victor Wooten is the epitome of a freak and Stefan Lessard is the epitome of a great bass player. If a band is putting the song first then bass players shouldn't be playing leads. If a band is into showing off then sure the bass player can rip all over the place.(Which I happen to like a lot...but this doesn't happen in songs that I'd sing along to.)

The reason there are a lot of bass players that just play root notes and do nothing particularly impressive is directly related to the skill level of their drummer. If a band has a sick drummer (by sick I mean creative rhythmically, not just fast) and the band is tight...the bass player is probably just as sick but its hard to tell. As is the case with DMB- Carter and Stefan. Thats the same reason I don't buy into Flea being much better as an all around bassist as Stefan. Stefan has to be a hundred times more creative to make his band sound great whereas Flea can spend all his creativity on showing off over easy rhythms.

The key to being more than just an average "root note" playing bass player while still being solid is to pick and chose your spots. If your band sounds great as a whole people will notice your part in that. But if you try and be too busy and you weigh your songs down with unneccessary sloppy playing you will ruin your bands sound. Pick your spots and don't be afraid to push your drummer to play something more interesting. The drummer is, afterall, undeniably the most important piece of almost any band.

I play bass in my band as well.