#41 Struggles

[JTR&PIG]

My fingers are stretched to the limit according the dmbtabs.com I did see an easier one but id rather learn the authentic any tips I should know about it, my fingers are pretty flexible but i can't seem to do this fingering...any suggestions?

[PilotC150]

Practice.

Your hands will stretch out and it'll get easier.

[GeorgeJr.]

Intro
play this four times

-------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------3--------
--------5-5--------7-7-------7-7------0---0H4p0--
------2---3------4---4-----5---5----4------------
----3-----2----5-----5---7-----7--5--------------
--5-------5--7-------7---------------------------


Verse


---------------------------------------
-----8-8-8----8-8-8----8-8-8-----8-8-8-
-----7-7-7----7-7-7----7-7-7-----7-7-7-
---------------------------------------
---------------------7--------5--------
---5--------7--------------------------


Chorus

----------------------
------3-3-------------
-4-4--2-2--9--9------
-x-x-------x--x-------
-2-2-------7--7-------
-3-3--2-2--8--8------






is this what you are playing?

[Stuntcheeks]

That tab is wrong. 3rd chord should be x7548x and there's a 0h4 on the D string after the one on the G.

[Pig17]

I had the same problem. I have really bad hands for a guitar player (big palms, short fingers) and kind of got discouraged when first trying that stretch. What I did (this might help you out) was first learn the stretches in Captain. That built up my strength in my hand and, because of this, I could now do the stretches in #41 rather easily. Rememeber, practice pays off in the longrun. Good luck!

[Stuntcheeks]

What helped me was planting, then stretching. For instance on the x7548x, I plant the 7 (ring finger), place 5 & 4 down, then stretch the pinky down for the 8.

[jimibadfish]

What helped me was planting, then stretching. For instance on the x7548x, I plant the 7 (ring finger), place 5 & 4 down, then stretch the pinky down for the 8.


He's right; the bass notes are always the first played in this song. You can use them as an anchor to reach the others, and just practice, man...you'l get it eventually. Unless, you have hobbit hands like Pig 17.:p

[JTR&PIG]

ok see i can do the intro to recently and there is some stretching with the same finger pattern bu t i can't do #41 for some reason its my middle finger i can't land it for some reason

[UPandDOWNstrum]

now the hard part is hitting those verses going to the chorus and jumping right back into the verse without missing a beat. I guess it must be nice to be 6'3 or whatever he is and have longer limbs and fingers

[jimibadfish]

now the hard part is hitting those verses going to the chorus and jumping right back into the verse without missing a beat. I guess it must be nice to be 6'3 or whatever he is and have longer limbs and fingers

I didn't realize Dave was that tall.

[chr35919]

make the "A shape" (542225) successfully and you can make the #41 stretches......search for the CAGED system...learning these shapes will help your guitar playing tremendously.

[chr35919]

I didn't realize Dave was that tall.


yeah he's only about '5''10 I think....sucks for all of you with small hands

[jimibadfish]

yeah he's only about '5''10 I think....sucks for all of you with small hands

That's what I thought...so Beauford is really that short.

Small hands + #41 = taking up the sax.

[chr35919]

Small hands + #41 = taking up the sax.:lol

[JTR&PIG]

yeah he's only about '5''10 I think....sucks for all of you with small hands
im 6 0 and I have pretty large hands i can't get the gap between my middle finger and ring finger to work right thats all maybe it needs trained i hope

[chr35919]

Oh...I meant the G shape not A shape before...here's a link:
http://www.wholenote.com/default.asp?iTarget=http%3A//www.wholenote.com/cgi-bin/page_view.pl%3Fl%3D912%26p%3D1%26a%3D0

[PhishFleck41]

yeah he's only about '5''10 I think....sucks for all of you with small hands

Dave's 6 feet 2 inches tall.




I stalk famous musicians.

[PilotC150]

Dave's 6 feet 2 inches tall.




I stalk famous musicians.
Just so we don't have everybody saying different heights, I'll add in mine:

I have also always heard/read that he is 6'2.

[Pig17]

That's what I thought...so Beauford is really that short.

Small hands + #41 = taking up the sax. ;)

Tell Tim Reynolds that.

[GeorgeJr.]

Just so we don't have everybody saying different heights, I'll add in mine:

I have also always heard/read that he is 6'2.

i've met Dave on several occasions, i'm 5'11'' and he is taller than I. i'd estimate 6'1'' or 6'2''

[UPandDOWNstrum]

yeah he's only about '5''10 I think....sucks for all of you with small hands
I have always heard he is over 6 feet tall

[GeorgeJr.]

That tab is wrong. 3rd chord should be x7548x and there's a 0h4 on the D string after the one on the G.

i thought it was 075X8X

similar to Spoon, Where are Going , PNP , So Damn Lucky

[Rob]

Nope, Stunt's got it right.

And Dave is definitly over 6'.

[GeorgeJr.]

Nope, Stunt's got it right.

And Dave is definitly over 6'.
is the way Stunt defined that chord played the same in the other songs i mentioned?

[chr35919]

Nope, Stunt's got it right.

And Dave is definitly over 6'.


nope

[nakedguydmb]

OMFG i herd that dAve wuz liek, 5-3 cuz teh AIDZ is makeing him shrink!!!!!!!111

[Rob]

nope

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0559986/bio

http://www.netglimse.com/celebs/pages/dave_matthews/index.shtml

http://www.filmbug.com/db/1192

[chr35919]

apparently he is over 6 but those numbers above vary....

[Rob]

Regardless, a few notes...

If you're going to counter somebody that knows what they're talking about, at least do more than "nope." You end up looking foolish. I happen to have met Mr. Matthews several times. While I couldn't tell you exactly what his height is, I can tell you hands down he is over than six feet tall.

What formed your judgement that Dave was below six feet? Did you just want to look cool on a website, countering somebody that's been proven knowledgable time and time again?

[chr35919]

did you call him mr matthews when you met him??? :lol


and no I didn't just do it to be a dick...I had seen somewhere he was under 6 feet that's all...and yeah you may have been proven reliable but you have also proven to be a douche bag time and again.


hijack over...

[UPandDOWNstrum]

did you call him mr matthews when you met him??? :lol


and no I didn't just do it to be a dick...I had seen somewhere he was under 6 feet that's all...and yeah you may have been proven reliable but you have also proven to be a douche bag time and again.


hijack over...


I only mentionedhis height to indicate his hand size, and how that may lend to his ability to stretch out such lenghts, ala Hendrix I suppose

[JTR&PIG]

well my height isn't the probelm is the stretch i gotta get used to it

[jimibadfish]

apparently he is over 6 but those numbers above vary....

http://www.rocksbackpages.com/news/pics/1011_matthews_grammy.jpg

He looks pretty tall right here, regardless.

[GeorgeJr.]

is the way Stunt defined that chord played the same in the other songs i mentioned?

well??

[PilotC150]

What helped me was planting, then stretching. For instance on the x7548x, I plant the 7 (ring finger), place 5 & 4 down, then stretch the pinky down for the 8.
I just checked how I play it, and I play it x7578x. Always sounded right to me.

Now I guess I"m gonna have to relearn that chord....damn.

[Stuntcheeks]

Sorry, Pilot :)

And George, I do not know of DM playing the chord that way in any other song. You are correct w/the others that you mentioned. He just adds that 4 on the G for #41.

While Rob's delivery isn't always sugar coated, he's usually right.

[GeorgeJr.]

hmmmmm

[JTR&PIG]

Sorry, Pilot :)

And George, I do not know of DM playing the chord that way in any other song. You are correct w/the others that you mentioned. He just adds that 4 on the G for #41.

While Rob's delivery isn't always sugar coated, he's usually right.
lol when is it sugar coated?

[GeorgeJr.]

Sorry, Pilot :)

And George, I do not know of DM playing the chord that way in any other song. You are correct w/the others that you mentioned. He just adds that 4 on the G for #41.

While Rob's delivery isn't always sugar coated, he's usually right.

can you even hear that '4' ?

[Stuntcheeks]

I do, yes. This is from DMBtabs.com. Not that they're infallable or anything:

Intro
E:--------------------------------
B:---------------8---3--3----3----
G:---5-----7-----4---x--0h4--x----
D:---2-----4-----5---4--x----0h4--
A:---3-----5---7-7---5--5----5----
E:-5-5---7-7----------------------
(2) (2)

[chr35919]

Intro
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------8---3------------------------8----3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3--------------
-5---7---4---0---0-0-4-4-0----5---7---4----0--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--------------
-2---4---5---4-------------4--2---4---5----4--5--4--0--4--5--4--0--------------
-3---5---7---5----------------3---5---7----5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--------------
-5---7---0--------------------5---7---0----------------------------------------


make sure your favorites aren't open on internet explorer...if they are this may appear jumbled

[Stuntcheeks]

Guitar's @ home but that doesn't look right. I'll check it out later.

[nakedguydmb]

Guitar's @ home but that doesn't look right. I'll check it out later.
it's almost exactly the same thing that you posted...

[chr35919]

it's almost exactly the same thing that you posted...

yeah man it works...it just doesn't show the hammers instead it shows the chords

[chr35919]

and nakedguy...I know you aren't a student at u of i but do you ever hit the quad and play?

[Stuntcheeks]

it's almost exactly the same thing that you posted...

Well, is it right or "almost exactly" right. They're not the same thing.

What I was questioning is this run on the D string:

4--5--4--0--4--5--4--0

Never seen it.

[nakedguydmb]

and nakedguy...I know you aren't a student at u of i but do you ever hit the quad and play?
when i was in college i did. :lol :lol

[nakedguydmb]

Well, is it right or "almost exactly" right. They're not the same thing.

What I was questioning is this run on the D string:

4--5--4--0--4--5--4--0

Never seen it.
the chord structures are. as far as variations inside of chords, i've heard dave do lots of different ones. the g---0h4--- is just the most used one by fans because it's present in recordings like LC.

[justinlsmith]

as everyone has said its all practice...i looked at the 41 tabs about a year ago and tried the fingering out and said noway same with crash but now i can stretch very far down the neck just from my hands getting so much stronger but i play like 3 hours a night so i dont know how long it would take you to build up your hands

[GeorgeJr.]

I think we've just about killed this song

[JTR&PIG]

as everyone has said its all practice...i looked at the 41 tabs about a year ago and tried the fingering out and said noway same with crash but now i can stretch very far down the neck just from my hands getting so much stronger but i play like 3 hours a night so i dont know how long it would take you to build up your hands
im about that too give or take a half an hour

[jimibadfish]

Intro
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------8---3------------------------8----3--3--3--3--3--3--3--3--------------
-5---7---9---0---0h44---------5---7--9----0--0--0--0--0--0--0--0--------------
-2---4---5---4-----------0h4--2---4---5----4--5--4--0--4--5--4--0--------------
-3---5---7---5----------------3---5---7----5--5--5--5--5--5--5--5--------------
-5---7---0--------------------5---7---0----------------------------------------


make sure your favorites aren't open on internet explorer...if they are this may appear jumbled

You see how I changed your 4s to 9s...that's the correct way to play this song. It sound good both ways (and the infallable jkanter agrees with you), but it sounds correct this way. I changed the transition as well...they sure sound like simple hammer-ons to me.

[chr35919]

You see how I changed your 4s to 9s...that's the correct way to play this song. It sound good both ways (and the infallable jkanter agrees with you), but it sounds correct this way. I changed the transition as well...they sure sound like simple hammer-ons to me.

I just copied and pasted it just to show another way...but yeah either would work.

[JTR&PIG]

You see how I changed your 4s to 9s...that's the correct way to play this song. It sound good both ways (and the infallable jkanter agrees with you), but it sounds correct this way. I changed the transition as well...they sure sound like simple hammer-ons to me.
appreciate yoru version

[jimibadfish]

You see how I changed your 4s to 9s...that's the correct way to play this song. It sound good both ways (and the infallable jkanter agrees with you), but it sounds correct this way. I changed the transition as well...they sure sound like simple hammer-ons to me.

I'm not too into playing things the way they were originally played, but *cough* Dave plays it like this, too.

[jimibadfish]

appreciate yoru version

anytime, man:cool

[bluewater44]

They both sound great...but the variation is nice, too

[Schaff318]

now the hard part is hitting those verses going to the chorus and jumping right back into the verse without missing a beat. I guess it must be nice to be 6'3 or whatever he is and have longer limbs and fingers
I always thought that was rather easy...wait I'm 6'3...but you just have to move your hand fast

[GeorgeJr.]

anyone have a video or a picture of Dave playing this so we can all see the correct way of playing it.

[dlynch4]

I don't have a video to put up, but the Benaroya Hall DVD is great for seeing how Dave plays songs

[GeorgeJr.]

^^^ damn, i need that one

[dlynch4]

PM me, I'll do a B&P for ya

[Stuntcheeks]

I'll check the Boone DVD tomorrow.

[Stuntcheeks]

PM me, I'll do a B&P for ya

Dan, can you B&P one disc for me? I don't know which one I have but I only one disc. Would you b&p the one I'm missing?

I think the only thing I can offer that you don't have is N3 of the gorge last year. I have it coming. Thanks.

[GeorgeJr.]

this site always amazes me, thanks for the generosity.

[Stuntcheeks]

Same goes for the Boone DVD, btw. PM me if you guys want it.

[JTR&PIG]

this site always amazes me, thanks for the generosity.
i think that was the sites purpose to help get together and help all, so glad its working out for you

[UglyNakedGuy]

Regardless, a few notes...

If you're going to counter somebody that knows what they're talking about, at least do more than "nope." You end up looking foolish. I happen to have met Mr. Matthews several times. While I couldn't tell you exactly what his height is, I can tell you hands down he is over than six feet tall.

What formed your judgement that Dave was below six feet? Did you just want to look cool on a website, countering somebody that's been proven knowledgable time and time again?


I think it's YOU who tries to look cool on a website...

You are the one looking foolish by freaking out over EVERY. LITTLE. THING.


RELAX

[GeorgeJr.]

^^^ you look so uncool being a red sucks fan, go Yankees!!!!!

[UglyNakedGuy]

^^^ you look so uncool being a red sucks fan, go Yankees!!!!!

OK. If only you knew what you were talking about.

[UglyNakedGuy]

^^^ you look so uncool being a red sucks fan, go Yankees!!!!!

How did it feel when Mo blew the game last night, and Jeter had a beautiful error that was costly? Good I bet?

[GeorgeJr.]

How did it feel when Mo blew the game last night, and Jeter had a beautiful error that was costly? Good I bet?

Mo is not a robot but i bet you'd probably give up anyone on that team to get him.

Jeter is the heart and soul of the yankees and is probably on of the best role models baseball has to offer. its because of players like him the game of baseball is still standing on two feel (f'n bonds)

[Stuntcheeks]

Mo is not a robot but i bet you'd probably give up anyone on that team to get him.

Jeter is the heart and soul of the yankees and is probably on of the best role models baseball has to offer. its because of players like him the game of baseball is still standing on two feel (f'n bonds)

:thumbsup

[UglyNakedGuy]

Mo is not a robot but i bet you'd probably give up anyone on that team to get him.

Jeter is the heart and soul of the yankees and is probably on of the best role models baseball has to offer. its because of players like him the game of baseball is still standing on two feel (f'n bonds)

I'm aware.

[UglyNakedGuy]

Mo is not a robot but i bet you'd probably give up anyone on that team to get him.

Jeter is the heart and soul of the yankees and is probably on of the best role models baseball has to offer. its because of players like him the game of baseball is still standing on two feel (f'n bonds)

A Yankees fan in Ohio?

[GeorgeJr.]

I actually grew up in Massachusetts but my grandfather was a die hard Yankees fan. i looked up to him as a little kid. It was tough growing up in Mass as a Yankees fan, especially through the 80s when they didnt win shit.

[Stuntcheeks]

I'm a Yankees fan in Arizona who's from Ohio. Can I play?

[GeorgeJr.]

I'm a Yankees fan in Arizona who's from Ohio. Can I play?

i live in cincinnati

[Stuntcheeks]

I'm from Columbus. Lived in Connecticut as a kid. Don Mattingly made me a baseball fan, not just a Yanks fan. Been die hard ever since.

Bucks fan, too, George?

[chr35919]

the yankees suck a fat one

[UglyNakedGuy]

frontrunners....

[GeorgeJr.]

I'm from Columbus. Lived in Connecticut as a kid. Don Mattingly made me a baseball fan, not just a Yanks fan. Been die hard ever since.

Bucks fan, too, George?

a bunch of my friends went to Moeller and they are all HUGE buckeye fans. now i am too.

[MGH4007]

dmbtabs has the correct way, the other sites that use chords and say thats how dave plays it, somtimes he changes the intro from "dave chords" to original chords, but he doesnt use them for the verse

also, the london vids are pretty good

[krbarrett77]

the first and second #41 intro chords are some of the hardest for me to form. I can do it, but it took LOTS of practice.

A tip: instead of forming this chord like most chords, where your wrist is actually behind the neck (closer to your body), this chord requires my wrist to actually be out in front of the neck of the guitar.

If I dont do it this way i end up muting strings that very definitely need to be played open, and that makes a huge difference.

[JTR&PIG]

How did it feel when Mo blew the game last night, and Jeter had a beautiful error that was costly? Good I bet?
applaudes I respect the Red Sox, don't say anything after this comment because you can tell a true fan...

IM A PIRATE FAN i don't care if we win 50 or 100 always a PIRATE fan

[JTR&PIG]

i think that defines a fan cause win or lose you GOTTA SUPPORT THE TEAM, lol

[GeorgeJr.]

yeah , i agree. its not cool to be a yankees fan these days because of their recent success but ,like i said, when i was growing up they were not winning anything. i think the span was from 1978 to 1995.

[JTR&PIG]

a true fan that has had 13 losing seasons in a row and still a fan is a fan of team, lol atleast i would consider it

[dave1399fan]

What helped me was planting, then stretching. For instance on the x7548x, I plant the 7 (ring finger), place 5 & 4 down, then stretch the pinky down for the 8.

That's great advice. I do it that way as well.

[JTR&PIG]

i gotta remember that buts hard when you wanna play it too speed sometimes

[Stuntcheeks]

Speed comes later. Get the muscle memory down first. You'll be changing fast in no time. Always remember that technique comes first. Practice & time will bring speed.

Who wants to hear someone play fast if they're sloppy?

[dave1399fan]

That and most versions of #41 are slow enough were it shouldn't be a problem once you get comfortable with the plant and stretch technique. After you get the intro down then the song becomes extremely easy.

[JTR&PIG]

alright ill keep that in mind thanks for the assistance

[jimibadfish]

dmbtabs has the correct way, the other sites that use chords and say thats how dave plays it, somtimes he changes the intro from "dave chords" to original chords, but he doesnt use them for the verse

also, the london vids are pretty good


:ugh I tink this almost went unnoticed, or maybe I'm just an asshole...prolly the later.

What the fuck is a 'dave' chord. And if you say one Dave made up I'm gonna freak. But let's just say a 'dave' chord is one he made up...wouldn't that also make it original. I have only heard the intro played one way and the verse is nearly impossible to change. Even so, the verse and the intro to #41 are way...way fucking different from each other. Point is; this post is absolute non-sense.

[Stuntcheeks]

Not useless, Jimi. Read this page, http://www.dmbtabs.com/lessons.php?id=3 and you'll see what he's talking about. 'Dave chords' are chord fingerings that Dave favors. Songs like LIOG, Grey Street, Billies, WWTE, etc. all feature his style of fingering. It all boils down to Dave's style. Can you play the songs with different chord voicings? Sure, but to get the sound right on you have to use "dave chords."

I agree that #41 doesn't vary. I've seen and heard that song so many times and hardly ever seen any improv in it (as far as DM is concerned).

[chr35919]

you know what, I don't know why they are called dave chords...all he is doing is playing an easier version of a chord. All you have to do is know how you use your barring finger for muting so the other strings don't sound when you play a piece of the chord. But I guess because he uses them for so many songs it makes some sense.

and #41 does vary acoustically...the 96, 97, 99, 03 versions are all different intro-wise.....for example in 03 there's no picking in the intro.

[jimibadfish]

Not useless, Jimi. Read this page, http://www.dmbtabs.com/lessons.php?id=3 and you'll see what he's talking about. 'Dave chords' are chord fingerings that Dave favors. Songs like LIOG, Grey Street, Billies, WWTE, etc. all feature his style of fingering. It all boils down to Dave's style. Can you play the songs with different chord voicings? Sure, but to get the sound right on you have to use "dave chords."

I agree that #41 doesn't vary. I've seen and heard that song so many times and hardly ever seen any improv in it (as far as DM is concerned).

I know what he means...I just think people believing dave made up some chords and calling them dave chords is really silly. They have been used before, believe it or not, by guitarist long ago. Just because Dave's style incorporates seldomly utilised chords doesn't make them his. And he doesn't use any of these in the verse of #41.:)

[JTR&PIG]

so did you answer the Dave chords and what they are correct

[jimibadfish]

so did you answer the Dave chords and what they are correct

I have no clue what you are asking or implying here. :confused

[JTR&PIG]

I have no clue what you are asking or implying here. :confused
lol that was a hurried type before I got offline, what I meant to ask was, was the Dave chords discrepency/debate solved...sorry

[jimibadfish]

lol that was a hurried type before I got offline, what I meant to ask was, was the Dave chords discrepency/debate solved...sorry

Yeah, I always knew why they were called Dave chords. I still think it's silly. And everyone disagrees. :shrug

[jimibadfish]

it is silly...only people that are dave-centric with guitar would call them dave chords. You could say: "those are chord shapes dave uses a lot" and that would be fine.

Or learn that the two opening chords for #41 are diminished chords and so forth...but that's a lot to ask.:rolleyes You're right...the only ones that say 'dave' chords are seemingly blinded by the music of dave, but if they would branch out, they could develop their own style.

[JTR&PIG]

Yeah, I always knew why they were called Dave chords. I still think it's silly. And everyone disagrees. :shrug
oh well least its all straightened out

[chr35919]

Yeah, I always knew why they were called Dave chords. I still think it's silly. And everyone disagrees. :shrug

it is silly...only people that are dave-centric with guitar would call them dave chords. You could say: "those are chord shapes dave uses a lot" and that would be fine.

[JTR&PIG]

technical English is what your speaking, but honestly, there are some people that started because of Dave so why not let em call em that, they might only know them as that

[jimibadfish]

technical English is what your speaking, but honestly, there are some people that started because of Dave so why not let em call em that, they might only know them as that

People will do what ever they want, but I will correct them if I want...and techinically, it's music jargon. :D Ignorance in a subject a person is genuinely interested in is something they should wish to overcome, right? I'm just trying to help...not be an ass. :)

[JTR&PIG]

People will do what ever they want, but I will correct them if I want...and techinically, it's music jargon. :D Ignorance in a subject a person is genuinely interested in is something they should wish to overcome, right? I'm just trying to help...not be an ass. :)
i know i wasn't trying to be a dick to you either, my fault if you took it that way, I was just trying to say what you wanted to say in another way, so sorry about the confusion ill try and be less direct

[earl]

Or learn that the two opening chords for #41 are diminished chords and so forth...but that's a lot to ask.:rolleyes

No they're not.

[earl]

And one more thing, I've always heard that Dave wasn't the first to use these chords, but can anyone verify that? A song, for example? Because I have never heard a non-Dave song using those voicings. I'm not saying he created them, but are there any other mainstream musicians that have used them?

[jimibadfish]

No they're not.

What are they? Seriously, if I'm wrong I would like to be corrected.:o

[JTR&PIG]

im curious myself if not diminshed chords, thats what you were asking?

[earl]

Amadd2, Bmadd4, Em7, Dadd2

[jimibadfish]

Amadd2, Bmadd4, Em7, Dadd2

Thank you, earl. Where can I find a place that has those chords listed?

[earl]

dmbtabs.com

[JTR&PIG]

dmbtabs.com
that and there is another site on ourmedia that shows em to you

[jimibadfish]

And one more thing, I've always heard that Dave wasn't the first to use these chords, but can anyone verify that? A song, for example? Because I have never heard a non-Dave song using those voicings. I'm not saying he created them, but are there any other mainstream musicians that have used them?

The police, incubus, hendrix (sort of), clapton, fleetwood mac, prince and there are many jazz musicians that have used the same voicings as Dave. There is a very jazz feel to these chords that allow the members of the band to go in many different directions while keeping generally inside the groove. All these chords are is a way to augment the 'standard' way to play a chord to give it a more full, encapsulating sound.

-note: I understand that augmented is a type of chord, but I am using the word augment to mean improve or make better.

[earl]

The police, incubus, hendrix (sort of), clapton, fleetwood mac, prince and there are many jazz musicians that have used the same voicings as Dave. There is a very jazz feel to these chords that allow the members of the band to go in many different directions while keeping generally inside the groove. All these chords are is a way to augment the 'standard' way to play a chord to give it a more full, encapsulating sound.

-note: I understand that augmented is a type of chord, but I am using the word augment to mean improve or make better.

Do you have any specific songs? I'm not too familiar with Prince and Fleetwood Mac, but there are no Hendrix or Clapton songs that I am aware of that use these specific voicings. And Incubus came after DMB so he couldn't have gotten them from Incubus. I read somewhere that he borrowed the 41 chord shapes from some musician in Charlottesville, but other than that I haven't seen or heard of any other mainstream artists using them.

Just to clarify, I'm referring to Dave's specific voicings, ie playing an Am as 53x5xx or 5x75xx instead of in the standard open position. The law of probability leads me to believe that other guitar players had discovered these voicings and put them to use before Dave, I just can't find any evidence for it (on a mainstream level).

And even if these voicings were used before, I think we can all agree that no single artist used them to the extent that Dave has, which makes calling them 'Dave chords' legit in my opinion. And I'm sure that anyone who does refer to them as such is doing so out of convenience, not ignorance.

So again, if you have any specific song examples I'd appreciate it.

[jimibadfish]

You are right...Dave invented his own form of music. :rolleyes Look into the artists I mentioned for yourself. I am tired.

[earl]

Nowhere did I say that. I said as far as I know no other artist uses those specific fingerings, and asked you to give me an example of another song that does. You couldn't.

And by the way, Clapton never uses any unorthodox chord voicings. Hendrix had some interesting jazz chords, but there is no song of his that I've heard (and I've heard 95% of them) that uses "Dave chords".

If you disagree with me that's fine, I would just like some proof for your argument. So far you have none.

It's kind of like when people refer to the 7#9 chord as a "Hendrix chord" or a "Miles Davis chord". Did they invent that chord? No. But it is referred to as such because they were the first to popularize it's use and familiarize listeners with it.

[chr35919]

Dave uses them because their possibly the easiest chords to play

[jimibadfish]

Nowhere did I say that. I said as far as I know no other artist uses those specific fingerings, and asked you to give me an example of another song that does. You couldn't.

And by the way, Clapton never uses any unorthodox chord voicings. Hendrix had some interesting jazz chords, but there is no song of his that I've heard (and I've heard 95% of them) that uses "Dave chords".

If you disagree with me that's fine, I would just like some proof for your argument. So far you have none.

It's kind of like when people refer to the 7#9 chord as a "Hendrix chord" or a "Miles Davis chord". Did they invent that chord? No. But it is referred to as such because they were the first to popularize it's use and familiarize listeners with it.

Seriously, I was tired...I had just gotten off work. BTW, how the fuck can their be such thing as a Miles Davis chord...he plays the trumpet you fuck. And you can look in to the other shit yourself 'cause for a minute there I thought you had a point and a perspective worth listening to, but now...not so much. Miles davis chord:lol

[chr35919]

Seriously, I was tired...I had just gotten off work. BTW, how the fuck can their be such thing as a Miles Davis chord...he plays the trumpet you fuck. And you can look in to the other shit yourself 'cause for a minute there I thought you had a point and a perspective worth listening to, but now...not so much. Miles davis chord:lol:lol

[Stuntcheeks]

??? Why such hostility? Jeez. Yes, Miles Davis played trumpet but he was a composer. He used chords everyday.

LOL

[earl]

The trumpet plays over chords, his album "Kind of Blue" uses a 7#9 extensively, and instead of always referring to it as "a chord Miles Davis used a lot" it is often referred to as a "Miles Davis chord" out of convenience and out of respect. Hendrix's Purple Haze was the first pop song to use the chord, and people refer to it as a "Hendrix chord" for the same reasons.

Back to the original subject, I don't think anyone refers to Dave's chord shapes as "Dave chords" because they are "Dave-centric" (even though they might be", but because Dave has used these chords more extensively than any other mainstream artist. Whether or not he invented them (which I'm still waiting to be disproved) is irrelevant. So to belittle a fellow musician for calling them "Dave chords" is wrong in my opinion.

I'm sorry for the hostility in my previous post; it's finals week so I'm high strung. I'd like to continue this discussion/argument in a more civilized way.

[Stuntcheeks]

I'm sorry for the hostility in my previous post; it's finals week so I'm high strung. I'd like to continue this discussion/argument in a more civilized way.

Didn't think you were the hostile one. Thanks for the explanation.

[jimibadfish]

So to belittle a fellow musician for calling them "Dave chords" is wrong in my opinion.

I'm sorry for the hostility in my previous post; it's finals week so I'm high strung. I'd like to continue this discussion/argument in a more civilized way.

I belittled noone for calling them 'dave chords'...as I said bofore I just think it is silly. I do not think Dave Matthews saw anyone else playing the chords he often uses and said, "Hey, that's a cool chord...I'm gonna write a song using it." No good artist copies others or they aren't original. And being original is a requirement. When I write music, I come across chords I have never heard of or seen before, but I don't think I invented anything. Chords are musically diverse and don't always have to be strummed on an acoustic guitar to be utilised. The musicians I listed are ones who have employed an array of chord voicings in their music and I didn't mean that they use exactly what Dave uses. I really do believe many people who post on this sight have some sort of DMB tunnel vision and often are clouded by the greatness of the band. I love DMB as much as anyone...I just try to be practical about it. I will also be practical and not infringe on anyone's god given right to call these mysterious chords Dave chords by not correcting them any longer. But I will silently roll my eyes. Sorry if I seem abrasive, but I'm also in the middle of finals, being separated from the Air Force for self identifying for smoking pot, and my golf game seems to be getting worse. I am officially off this subject.




-BTW Incubus has been around since 1990...:lol they formed while in middle school.:rolleyes

[jimibadfish]

??? Why such hostility? Jeez. Yes, Miles Davis played trumpet but he was a composer. He used chords everyday.

LOL

I apoligize.

[earl]

No good artist copies others or they aren't original.
I think is the farthest from the truth... all musicians steal ideas from past musicians and build upon them. I don't think there is any artist in history who can be credited with developing a type of music completely on their own.

And being original is a requirement. I think Dave is the most original mainstream guitar player to come out of the 90s. All his peers were still using the same standard chords (for the most part): power chords, barre, open, etc. Some people would argue Kurt Cobain had more of an impact, which is probably true, but his actual guitar playing i would argue was not original, it was just completely different from the rock music of the time. Dave, on the other hand, with his unique closed chord voicings, rhythm, and syncopation is drastically different from any mainstream guitar player to come before him. This is all just my opinion.

When I write music, I come across chords I have never heard of or seen before, but I don't think I invented anything.
I doubt he does either.

The musicians I listed are ones who have employed an array of chord voicings in their music and I didn't mean that they use exactly what Dave uses.
But we are talking about those specific chord voicings.

I really do believe many people who post on this sight have some sort of DMB tunnel vision and often are clouded by the greatness of the band.
Agreed.


-BTW Incubus has been around since 1990...:lol they formed while in middle school.:rolleyes
Regardless, Dave did not come into contact with their guitar and steal the chords he was using (assuming he was using these chords in the first place, which he wasn't).

And please, the smileys just make you look like a complete douche bag.

I realize I myself may come across as "Dave-centric" in my argument. I'm not, but I think he is often robbed of the credibility he deserves, and I think people who try to downplay his playing or are offended by the term "Dave chords" simply do so so they can view themselves as musically enlightened and others as musically ignorant. I don't mean to overgeneralize, but this is usually the case.

And to reiterate once again, I never said he invented these chords. I was just asking you to prove that he didn't. Still waiting...

[jimibadfish]

No good artist copies others or they aren't original.
I think is the farthest from the truth... all musicians steal ideas from past musicians and build upon them. I don't think there is any artist in history who can be credited with developing a type of music completely on their own.

And being original is a requirement. I think Dave is the most original mainstream guitar player to come out of the 90s. All his peers were still using the same standard chords (for the most part): power chords, barre, open, etc. Some people would argue Kurt Cobain had more of an impact, which is probably true, but his actual guitar playing i would argue was not original, it was just completely different from the rock music of the time. Dave, on the other hand, with his unique closed chord voicings, rhythm, and syncopation is drastically different from any mainstream guitar player to come before him. This is all just my opinion.

When I write music, I come across chords I have never heard of or seen before, but I don't think I invented anything.
I doubt he does either.

The musicians I listed are ones who have employed an array of chord voicings in their music and I didn't mean that they use exactly what Dave uses.
But we are talking about those specific chord voicings.

I really do believe many people who post on this sight have some sort of DMB tunnel vision and often are clouded by the greatness of the band.
Agreed.


-BTW Incubus has been around since 1990...:lol they formed while in middle school.:rolleyes
Regardless, Dave did not come into contact with their guitar and steal the chords he was using (assuming he was using these chords in the first place, which he wasn't).

And please, the smileys just make you look like a complete douche bag.

I realize I myself may come across as "Dave-centric" in my argument. I'm not, but I think he is often robbed of the credibility he deserves, and I think people who try to downplay his playing or are offended by the term "Dave chords" simply do so so they can view themselves as musically enlightened and others as musically ignorant. I don't mean to overgeneralize, but this is usually the case.

And to reiterate once again, I never said he invented these chords. I was just asking you to prove that he didn't. Still waiting...

Wow...I was trying to be nice...the incubus thing was meant as a joke. Do you really think they had that kind of style in middle school?... Nobody straight up copies other people's music is what I meant...In the exploration of music people come across things and put them to use...I think Dave is an infinitely creative guitarist, noone is his peer...and I think the smileys are cool. NOBODY invented music. I am amazed at how passionate you are about this. Why don't you prove to me that he did...or better yet just drop it. Here is some incintive...
You are right and I was a fool to question you!

Now go get laid or something.

[jimibadfish]

Wow...I was trying to be nice...the incubus thing was meant as a joke. Do you really think they had that kind of style in middle school?... Nobody straight up copies other people's music is what I meant...In the exploration of music people come across things and put them to use...I think Dave is an infinitely creative guitarist, noone is his peer...and I think the smileys are cool. NOBODY invented music. I am amazed at how passionate you are about this. Why don't you prove to me that he did...or better yet just drop it. Here is some incintive...
You are right and I was a fool to question you!

Now go get laid or something.

I would like to add that there are a number of guitarist that came out of the ninenties that play standard chords sometimes and sometimes they don't...kinda like Dave Matthews. Did you know that on several occasions Dave himself has been known to play a barre chord and an open chord all in the same song? *gasp* If you wish to know who these mystery men are, you will have to find them...'cause now I am officially done with explaining anything to anybody. That previous sentence, unfortunately for you folks, is not true.

I do love all of you though...Earl included.

[earl]

I love you too

[Stuntcheeks]

I apoligize.

All good. :)

[sw1818]

the live @LC version is very esy for the verses

--3----3----3----3
--3----3----3----3
--0----0----0----0
--2--- 0--2-2--0-0
0----2------------
-------------------

[jimibadfish]

the live @LC version is very esy for the verses

--3----3----3----3
--3----3----3----3
--0----0----0----0
--2--- 0--2-2--0-0
0----2------------
-------------------


I hope you aren't being serious.

[JTR&PIG]

the live @LC version is very esy for the verses

--3----3----3----3
--3----3----3----3
--0----0----0----0
--2--- 0--2-2--0-0
0----2------------
-------------------
that doesn't appear right

[sw1818]

yes actually i am being serious.....it's straight ou tof the book...just try it for yourself and tell me what you think

[jimibadfish]

yes actually i am being serious.....it's straight ou tof the book...just try it for yourself and tell me what you think


I think it isn't the way it is supposed to be played...without trying it. The book you are using is wrong.:) Go to dmbtabs.com if you have access to the internet.:rolleyes

[chr35919]

that doesn't appear right

it is perfectly right. Just not what was played at luther college. Open A and D instead of farther up the neck.

do you guys really think this doesn't sound the same??? it does, it's all just in a different position. Try it and see.

[jimibadfish]

it is perfectly right. Just not what was played at luther college. Open A and D instead of farther up the neck.

do you guys really think this doesn't sound the same??? it does, it's all just in a different position. Try it and see.


I understand it is the same notes...it's just not the same. It sounds similar, but the resonance is totally different...obviously. I will be more specific from now on when I post.

[JTR&PIG]

it is perfectly right. Just not what was played at luther college. Open A and D instead of farther up the neck.

do you guys really think this doesn't sound the same??? it does, it's all just in a different position. Try it and see.
nm i played it last night sorry for the wrong information it does sound like it, kinda, just not quite the same at least to my ear

[sw1818]

yes i agree it didnt look correct when i first saw it myself...it was in a live a luther college vol.2 tab book at a sam goody's i was at.

[JTR&PIG]

how much was that book i wanted to check out those tabs, also was a distortion used on Tim's guitar?

[jimibadfish]

how much was that book i wanted to check out those tabs, also was a distortion used on Tim's guitar?


Tim uses an array of effects when he plays. I don't know about distortion on acoustic.

[sw1818]

how much was that book i wanted to check out those tabs, also was a distortion used on Tim's guitar?

the book is like $25

[sw1818]

here is a site where you can find it.

http://www.activemusician.com/item--HL.02500611

[JTR&PIG]

ty you very much I appreciate it

[sw1818]

no problem

[nakedguydmb]

I belittled noone for calling them 'dave chords'...as I said bofore I just think it is silly. I do not think Dave Matthews saw anyone else playing the chords he often uses and said, "Hey, that's a cool chord...I'm gonna write a song using it." No good artist copies others or they aren't original. And being original is a requirement. When I write music, I come across chords I have never heard of or seen before, but I don't think I invented anything. Chords are musically diverse and don't always have to be strummed on an acoustic guitar to be utilised. The musicians I listed are ones who have employed an array of chord voicings in their music and I didn't mean that they use exactly what Dave uses. I really do believe many people who post on this sight have some sort of DMB tunnel vision and often are clouded by the greatness of the band. I love DMB as much as anyone...I just try to be practical about it. I will also be practical and not infringe on anyone's god given right to call these mysterious chords Dave chords by not correcting them any longer. But I will silently roll my eyes. Sorry if I seem abrasive, but I'm also in the middle of finals, being separated from the Air Force for self identifying for smoking pot, and my golf game seems to be getting worse. I am officially off this subject.




-BTW Incubus has been around since 1990...:lol they formed while in middle school.:rolleyes
holy hell, i'm so sad that i wasn't around to see this when it happened. :lol :lol

the miles davis comment was fucking gold, too.

[nakedguydmb]

yes i agree it didnt look correct when i first saw it myself...it was in a live a luther college vol.2 tab book at a sam goody's i was at.
those books are often very wrong. they usually aren't made by fans or people who have actually watched him play. they're made by people who sit and listen and get it as close as they can.