NFL Football 2006-2007

[luke7]

I think that's more execution as oppose to playcalling

I wouldn't bring McNair back if I were the Ravens. He's past his prime.

[41ravens]

peace out, philly. thanks for playing.

[VanHorneDog]

I wouldn't bring McNair back if I were the Ravens. He's past his prime.

McNair is 13-4 as their quarterback and probably won at least 5-6 games that other QBs wouldnt have won. he is still a good quarterback. they just need to stop talking trash and play up to their potential. oh and they need some more tools around McNair like a couple more wideouts. Heap and Lewis are good. but he needs more i think. look at the best QBs in the league and what they have.

[dmbhoosier21]

McNair is 13-4 as their quarterback and probably won at least 5-6 games that other QBs wouldnt have won. he is still a good quarterback. they just need to stop talking trash and play up to their potential. oh and they need some more tools around McNair like a couple more wideouts. Heap and Lewis are good. but he needs more i think. look at the best QBs in the league and what they have.

Without a doubt, but definitely past his prime

[luke7]

McNair is 13-4 as their quarterback and probably won at least 5-6 games that other QBs wouldnt have won. he is still a good quarterback. they just need to stop talking trash and play up to their potential. oh and they need some more tools around McNair like a couple more wideouts. Heap and Lewis are good. but he needs more i think. look at the best QBs in the league and what they have.

McNair does need more weapons but for the last 3 years or so he has been nowhere close to his co-mvp level. I've seen many games where he has thrown very bad INT's like yesterday. To me he seems to be a step behind in his thought process.

[41ravens]

that bears game was absolute bullshit. they should not have won that game. anyone who disagrees needs to make a damn good arguement. i hope the saints destroy them.

[Ascf33]

What a game.

[kbail1230]

that bears game was absolute bullshit. they should not have won that game. anyone who disagrees needs to make a damn good arguement. i hope the saints destroy them.
You make a case of how they don't deserve to win.

[Trippin4136]

i don't care who was supposed to win that game or not.

It was entertaining as hell and it came down to 1 terrific throw byGrossman and a drilled kick from 50 yards and the Bears did it.

either way, did you see the hook that Gould put on the ball? wow, looked like a golf shot.

[41ravens]

You make a case of how they don't deserve to win.

they were outplayed by a completely inferior team. there was a lot of questionable calls, ie grossman's incomplete pass that should've been a fumble, the intentional grounding that wasn't called and a lot of the spots they got were about a yard or more than they should've been. i'm not trying to blame the officiating, but if there's ever a case where a team has had some favorable calls in their honor, it was today. they lucked out, plain and simple.

[xBigNastyx]

they were outplayed by a completely inferior team. there was a lot of questionable calls, ie grossman's incomplete pass that should've been a fumble, the intentional grounding that wasn't called and a lot of the spots they got were about a yard or more than they should've been. i'm not trying to blame the officiating, but if there's ever a case where a team has had some favorable calls in their honor, it was today. they lucked out, plain and simple.


Dude, what did yuo expect. Jerry Austin's crew officiated that game. His crew is BY FAR the worst I have ever seen.

There were SEVERAL awful calls in that game. For instance, does anyone remember that "pass interference" call against the rookie CB? That was BS.

And the ones you named as well.

I too hope the Saints destroy them.

Alexander had some good runs, but when he needed to get several first downs he just lost yardage instead. I continue to believe he is very over rated.

[Trippin4136]

"if theres one thing you know when you play with tom brady, he can stick it in some tight spots" - Phil Simms

:lol woops!

[SteelerMan]

that bears game was absolute bullshit. they should not have won that game. anyone who disagrees needs to make a damn good arguement. i hope the saints destroy them.

The Seahawks wasted several opportunities to win the game. If you're going to make an argument about someone not deserving to win that game, it should be that neither team deserved to win.

[xBigNastyx]

The Seahawks wasted several opportunities to win the game. If you're going to make an argument about someone not deserving to win that game, it should be that neither team deserved to win.

Either way, the Saints are the best team int he NFC easily. Grossman had a decent stat line today, but still sucked. For some reason he LOOOVVES to throw off his back foot and he loves to suck at reading blitzes and reacting to them.

[dmbmuskie]

Either way, the Saints are the best team int he NFC easily. Grossman had a decent stat line today, but still sucked. For some reason he LOOOVVES to throw off his back foot and he loves to suck at reading blitzes and reacting to them.

Shouldn't you be watching the game?

[Tiduwho]

Merroids is back from the locker room. No doubt they just injected him with a fresh cocktail. ;)

[dmbmuskie]

The Chargers lost that game. The made bad decisions and made countless mental mistakes. I think the Pats win it all now.

[RJ2kWJ]

The Chargers lost that game. The made bad decisions and made countless mental mistakes. I think the Pats win it all now.

So do I... again. :lol

[dmbmuskie]

ESPN couldn't be happier right now.

[luke7]

I think the Super Bowl the media wants is the Pats vs the Saints, with the Saints winning.

[dmbmuskie]

I think the media is getting exactly what it wants next Sunday. After that they'll just hype up whoever wins the Manning vs Brady showdown.

[Bartender84]

that bears game was absolute bullshit. they should not have won that game. anyone who disagrees needs to make a damn good arguement. i hope the saints destroy them.
As a Seahawks fan, the Bears absolutely deserved to win that game. We had many chances to get into FG range in the end and just couldn't.

The way we've played the last few weeks gives me alot of hope for next year though. If they can stay healthy, they can make another run for the SB.

[41ravens]

I think the media is getting exactly what it wants next Sunday. After that they'll just hype up whoever wins the Manning vs Brady showdown.

let's see, the 4 remaining teams...

1. saints - do i even need to say anything?
2. bears - one of the largest sports markets in the country
3. indy - peyton, the lovable loser, finally getting his shot
4. pats - another one of sports largest markets and espn's favorite team

i'm not trying to imply anything, just a funny coincidence is all. i think the nfl's a little upset about all the money they lost on last year's seahawks vs. steelers. ;)

[dmbmuskie]

let's see, the 4 remaining teams...

1. saints - do i even need to say anything?
2. bears - one of the largest sports markets in the country
3. indy - peyton, the lovable loser, finally getting his shot
4. pats - another one of sports largest markets and espn's favorite team

i'm not trying to imply anything, just a funny coincidence is all. i think the nfl's a little upset about all the money they lost on last year's seahawks vs. steelers. ;)

The Steelers actually have one of the biggest fanbases in the NFL. It's Steelers Nation.

[41ravens]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11205332/

touche, jason. touche.

[dmbmuskie]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11205332/

touche, jason. touche.

The Steelers merchandise sales are consistently among the top as well.

[xBigNastyx]

Shouldn't you be watching the game?


Commerical. I have a room with a TV AND a computer...What a concept!

[Tiduwho]

Holy Crap, I've never seen this vid before:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9HNgqQVHI_8


Jim Rome vs Jim Everett. Holy crap is Rome a douche, and that's gotta be from a long time ago. The voice is the same, but he doesn't look at all like him.


I don't get it, why does he keep calling him Chris?

[bigmac#41]

Because Chris Evert was a female tennis player that had more balls than Jim Everett ever did.

Pats/Colts= footballs Red Sox/Yankees

[Tiduwho]

Because Chris Evert was a female tennis player that had more balls than Jim Everett ever did.

Pats/Colts= footballs Red Sox/Yankees


How is that? What did Jim Everett do? I must be out of the loop and missed some giant embarassment? :ugh


Jim Rome is a cock. His radio show is blah blah blah and a WHOLE lot of dead air. He pauses for 10 seconds at a time. I'll watch Rome is Burning though, it's actually a steady format. I can't believe how cocky he used to be.

[bigmac#41]

I agree that Jim Rome is a dick, but Everett should have punched him in the mouth the first time Rome said it.

[41ravens]

so i just read about the patriots little celebration on the charger's logo. come on fellas, act like you've been there before.

[Trippin4136]

I agree. Tomlinson is getting heat in the media for calling the Pats "classless". But really, what they did is just immature, dumb and serves no purpose. Vrabel was mocking Merriman all game.

[SteelerMan]

so i just read about the patriots little celebration on the charger's logo. come on fellas, act like you've been there before.

:thumbsup

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/news/story?id=2731727

Douchebags.

[malarks26]

:thumbsup

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/news/story?id=2731727

Douchebags.

:thumbsup :thumbsup Yup, complete Douchebags. They get it from their classless coach who pouts like a little girl when he gets beat.

[Gob5]

I hate everyone on the patriots and them doing that just makes me hate them more.

[RJ2kWJ]

Soooo Im sorry if this is a repost... It just caught my eye for the first time. I remember hearing something about it a while ago.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2732567

An NFL game to be hosted in London next season.

[jimithin9]

what kind of argument is that? that the patriots have been there before, so they shouldnt be celebrating. but since the chargers never have they are allowed to do whatever they want? that doesnt make any sense.

and an NFL game in london is pretty cool. theyve had preseason ones in japan before havent they?

[UNC41]

what kind of argument is that? that the patriots have been there before, so they shouldnt be celebrating. but since the chargers never have they are allowed to do whatever they want? that doesnt make any sense.

and an NFL game in london is pretty cool. theyve had preseason ones in japan before havent they?

Celebrating is fine. Mocking is classless.

[xBigNastyx]

Celebrating is fine. Mocking is classless.

Nope.

Merriman is allowed to celebrate when all he deos is pressure a QB. Not sack, just put pressure on the QB with his taunting little dance...

But the Patriots arent allowed to after they are told all week that they are outmatched and see Merriman's lame dance?


God people are so jealous that the Pats win so much it's incredible. People just LOOK for reasons to criticize them.


How come no one made a huge deal when teams mocked the Giants little basketball dance?

EXACTLY!

You people need to get over it. Chargers are classy because they taunt after pressuring a QB and Rivers tries to fake a personal foul at the end of the game by diving to the ground, and they get presonal fouls to starting fights in between plays, but the Pats dance at the end of the game, and THEY are unclassy..

RIIIIGHT.

[xBigNastyx]

:thumbsup :thumbsup Yup, complete Douchebags. They get it from their classless coach who pouts like a little girl when he gets beat.

You have no IDEA what you're talking about.

The only person that complained here is LT. He just did it in a diplomatic way so it didn't seem like he was bitching so much. But he did it RIGHT after the game when his emotions were high.

[xBigNastyx]

Celebrating is fine. Mocking is classless.

Yeah celebrating after just hurrying the QB is classy....:rolleyes

Their argument was "act like you have won before"

Maybe Merriman and the Chargers should act like they have made a fucking tackle before.

No one cared when Chad Johnson mocked Merriman...

No one cared when Houston mocked the Giants thing.

You people are pathetic.

[SteelerMan]

Yeah celebrating after just hurrying the QB is classy....:rolleyes

Their argument was "act like you have won before"

Maybe Merriman and the Chargers should act like they have made a fucking tackle before.

No one cared when Chad Johnson mocked Merriman...

No one cared when Houston mocked the Giants thing.

You people are pathetic.

I agree with some of what you're saying, but the difference is that celebrating after a tackle/sack/touchdown is commonplace nowadays. Mocking teams by dancing on their logo after games is not. My preference would be for none of it to occur, but that's not going to happen.

Edit: Had a Patriots player done the Merriman dance in the endzone after a touchdown or after a sack, I don't think this would be an issue and I don't think LT would've reacted at all. I think the biggest issue here is that it happened after the game.

[Trippin4136]

I saw at least two different times Vrabel doing it after stopping Tomlinson on a 4 yard gain. I'm just saying.

Tomlinson could have confronted them on the field and been done with it. Carrying into a press conference was a bit much. Yes he undoubtedly was going to be asked about in the PC, but he could have just shaken it off instead of using the press conference as his pedestal.

[dmbhoosier21]

It might have been "classless" - NE of all teams should act like they've been there before (they have 3X)

But not like other teams/players haven't done it. So what if Vrabel was "imitating" Merriman; taunting and celebrations are everywhere in the league, just because a guy does some dance or whatever doesn't mean it's off-limits to other players.

Basically, LT was right, it was "classless" but get over it, he should be more upset they choked and coughed up the W at the end of the game. LT, media and some people are making too big of a deal out of this.

[dmbhoosier21]

I agree with some of what you're saying, but the difference is that celebrating after a tackle/sack/touchdown is commonplace nowadays. Mocking teams by dancing on their logo after games is not. My preference would be for none of it to occur, but that's not going to happen.

Edit: Had a Patriots player done the Merriman dance in the endzone after a touchdown or after a sack, I don't think this would be an issue and I don't think LT would've reacted at all. I think the biggest issue here is that it happened after the game.

Completely agree, although I still think it's been blown out of proportion but yeah, there is a line that they crossed.

[Trippin4136]

Completely agree, although I still think it's been blown out of proportion but yeah, there is a line that they crossed.

yea that's all I'm really getting at. If a guy does dances, when that guy loses, he just expect some reprisals. But given the precise situation the Pats players did it in, it was unnecessary and a line of (un)professionalism that they crossed.

[UNC41]

Nope.

Merriman is allowed to celebrate when all he deos is pressure a QB. Not sack, just put pressure on the QB with his taunting little dance...

But the Patriots arent allowed to after they are told all week that they are outmatched and see Merriman's lame dance?


God people are so jealous that the Pats win so much it's incredible. People just LOOK for reasons to criticize them.


How come no one made a huge deal when teams mocked the Giants little basketball dance?

EXACTLY!

You people need to get over it. Chargers are classy because they taunt after pressuring a QB and Rivers tries to fake a personal foul at the end of the game by diving to the ground, and they get presonal fouls to starting fights in between plays, but the Pats dance at the end of the game, and THEY are unclassy..

RIIIIGHT.

Yeah celebrating after just hurrying the QB is classy....:rolleyes

Their argument was "act like you have won before"

Maybe Merriman and the Chargers should act like they have made a fucking tackle before.

No one cared when Chad Johnson mocked Merriman...

No one cared when Houston mocked the Giants thing.

You people are pathetic.

Where in that post of mine you quoted twice did I say Merriman, Rivers, Ocho Cinco, Houston or anyone else was full of class? I said the Pats mocking Merriman is classless and nothing more.

I think it's stupid when Merriman or anyone else makes a big deal out of a routine play. You seem to think so too, so it's funny you don't mention Vrabel not only celebrating routine tackles, but mocking Merriman in the process.

I do think what the Pats did is different than CJ or Houston's mocking because it occured right after they ended a team's season. Emotions are higher than ever and the Pats know that. The situation is most comparable to what TO did in Dallas, and everyone crucified him. That, however, does not mean I find any of those actions classy.

But what do I know, I'm pathetic. And you wonder why people think you come off as a douche.

[xBigNastyx]

Where in that post of mine you quoted twice did I say Merriman, Rivers, Ocho Cinco, Houston or anyone else was full of class? I said the Pats mocking Merriman is classless and nothing more.

I think it's stupid when Merriman or anyone else makes a big deal out of a routine play. You seem to think so too, so it's funny you don't mention Vrabel not only celebrating routine tackles, but mocking Merriman in the process.

I do think what the Pats did is different than CJ or Houston's mocking because it occured right after they ended a team's season. Emotions are higher than ever and the Pats know that. The situation is most comparable to what TO did in Dallas, and everyone crucified him. That, however, does not mean I find any of those actions classy.

But what do I know, I'm pathetic. And you wonder why people think you come off as a douche.

Vrabel has no celebration dance that he does after every routine play.

You always act like I am directing everything toward you. I just happened to qoute what you said when I was talking, doesn't mean I am talking to you personally, so my bad for that.

[xBigNastyx]

It might have been "classless" - NE of all teams should act like they've been there before (they have 3X)

But not like other teams/players haven't done it. So what if Vrabel was "imitating" Merriman; taunting and celebrations are everywhere in the league, just because a guy does some dance or whatever doesn't mean it's off-limits to other players.

Basically, LT was right, it was "classless" but get over it, he should be more upset they choked and coughed up the W at the end of the game. LT, media and some people are making too big of a deal out of this.


:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[xBigNastyx]

Maybe Vrabel did it afterr a big tackle or two, I can't remember.

But Merriman did it after hurrying Brady. That's it. HURRYING the QB.

Not a tackle, not a sack, but a HURRY!

I understand whyt he Pats did it. If I was on a team that was told all week that we aren't talented enough, and then some steroid player deos some lame dance and talks shit I would have done it too. You all come to LT's defense and say emotions were high, well emotions were high for the Patriots too... IT's not one sided like you all think it is.

[xBigNastyx]

I agree. Tomlinson is getting heat in the media for calling the Pats "classless". But really, what they did is just immature, dumb and serves no purpose. Vrabel was mocking Merriman all game.

It serves plenty of purpose. They were responding to all the Chargers players and the media who said they were completely outmatched...

I'm SICK of hearing people say the Pats need to act like they have been there before. Since when did that mean you have to be emotionless?

At least Rivers was a man about it and didn't bitch that much because he said they probably woulda done the same thing if they were in that position.

[Trippin4136]

I'm not saying they have to be emotionless. I would never expect that of any professional athlete especially in a one-and-done situation. What I am saying is there are better ways to convey that emotion especially when you have just ended your opponent's season. Acting professional does not mean acting without emotion.

And fact, Vrabel was doing it during the game.

Either way, this discussion is over for me. It's already ridiculous how much the media is STILL talking about it.

[twosteppinpun]

Jeff Samardzija is giving up football to play for the Cubs...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6385348

Just FYI.

[41ravens]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070119

good article by simmons on football and basically sports in general.

[Tiduwho]

Jeff Samardzija is giving up football to play for the Cubs...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6385348

Just FYI.

He'll make more in the Major Leagues IMO. Guranteed and all that.

[Trippin4136]

Jeff Samardzija is giving up football to play for the Cubs...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6385348

Just FYI.

if I had his talents, I'd go to baseball too. More stable contracts, not as physically wearing and A LOT more money to be made.

[dmbhoosier21]

if I had his talents, I'd go to baseball too. More stable contracts, not as physically wearing and A LOT more money to be made.

Without a doubt

Unless you really love football, there is no reason to pick football over baseball, supposing of course that the hypothetical player's ability and skill is relatively equal between the two sports.

[dmbhoosier21]

Go Colts!

[DMBfan41]

Here's to you Peyton! Well deserved win, one more to go!

Bellichek is the biggest ass. I tell ya.

[zigbaldi]

Without a doubt

Unless you really love football, there is no reason to pick football over baseball, supposing of course that the hypothetical player's ability and skill is relatively equal between the two sports.

actually, talent being equal you pick football, because the majority of MLB first rounders don't even make the majors, where they only make the leauge minimum for the first three years. most mlb 1st rounders will get between 1-2 million, so for most of them thats all they will ever earn. Samardzija was going to be a late first round pick based on talent so he would have gotten around a $1 million bonus. Whereas he is ranked the #5 overall WR so he would have been a late 1st rounder in the NFL. the difference is as a late 1st rounder you are looking at a four year contract, at about $2 per season so he'd be getting around $8 mill.

thats why the cubs had to work out this $10 mill deal to make it worth his while, because under normal circumstances it is ALOT more financally lucrative to go to the NFL. The cubs are pretty dumb they could have signed 6-7 tough signs later on in the draft with the same talent as Samardzija, for the same cost to sign just him.

[DMBfan41]

just remember one simple name.

Drew Henson

[VanHorneDog]

so, who is the team to beat next year? colts, pats, chargers or ravens? or do some of those teams fall from grace?

[DMBfan41]

Giants of course, Eli finally sees what can happen when you win as he watched from the suite. He realizes, they can be ME! And he'll have a hell of a year.

Brandon Jacobs runs a hell of a lot, the defense stays healthy all year! And the Giants win Super Bowl XLII

[VanHorneDog]

Giants of course, Eli finally sees what can happen when you win as he watched from the suite. He realizes, they can be ME! And he'll have a hell of a year.

Brandon Jacobs runs a hell of a lot, the defense stays healthy all year! And the Giants win Super Bowl XLII

:eek *falls on floor and has heart attack from fits of laughter*

[DMBfan41]

:eek *falls on floor and has heart attack from fits of laughter*

hey, hey. I have 7 months to dream about it :)

[Tiduwho]

so, who is the team to beat next year? colts, pats, chargers or ravens? or do some of those teams fall from grace?
In the AFC:

Gotta give the nod to the Colts, if Bob Sanders is healthy that is. He is an amazing leader on that defense and really changes the complexion. I also predict that the Bengals come back in a big way. I feel Palmer will really come into his own next year, they will be a real threat.

The Pats are always around. The Ravens....I think will tail off a bit. McNair is really getting old, don't know what they'll get out of him. Ray Lewis is also getting old, though they don't need him to be what he used to be with the rest of that filthy D.

Chargers will be good again as well, barring an LT injury. You better hope he doesn't end up on the Madden Cover.

[VanHorneDog]

In the AFC:

Gotta give the nod to the Colts, if Bob Sanders is healthy that is. He is an amazing leader on that defense and really changes the complexion. I also predict that the Bengals come back in a big way. I feel Palmer will really come into his own next year, they will be a real threat.

The Pats are always around. The Ravens....I think will tail off a bit. McNair is really getting old, don't know what they'll get out of him. Ray Lewis is also getting old, though they don't need him to be what he used to be with the rest of that filthy D.

Chargers will be good again as well, barring an LT injury. You better hope he doesn't end up on the Madden Cover.

well, if the charger keep Turner. i dont see any loss in the running game. maybe in the passing game.

The Ravens are going to get beat around next year by the bengals/colts/pats/chargers so i dont think they will have the tallent to keep up come playoff time, if they get in.

Denver will improve, while KC will fall again.

Colts will get better. and so will the pats. cuz i think they both draft well now. along with the chargers.

[xBigNastyx]

Here's to you Peyton! Well deserved win, one more to go!

Bellichek is the biggest ass. I tell ya.

If you are gonna TRY to insult someone, spell their name correctly, otherwise shutup.

[DMBfan41]

If you are gonna TRY to insult someone, spell their name correctly, otherwise shutup.

Red Sox Suck!

.....hey, so do the Patriots now!

And, Suck S-U-C-K. SUCK!

[Trippin4136]

nice snubbing of Manning by Belichick, did you all see that?

Manning went to the center of the field presumably to find Dungy and Belichick. He extends his hand to Belichick and the guy keeps on walking which leads to the awkward stomach pat by Manning. I don't think he could handle the fact that a QB, almost singlehandedly, took down his team.

[dmbhoosier21]

nice snubbing of Manning by Belichick, did you all see that?

Manning went to the center of the field presumably to find Dungy and Belichick. He extends his hand to Belichick and the guy keeps on walking which leads to the awkward stomach pat by Manning. I don't think he could handle the fact that a QB, almost singlehandedly, took down his team.

Yeah, that was hilarious :lol

[UNC41]

I read this on benmaller.com this morning ...

The Oakland Raiders are preparing to make a run at Falcons QB Michael Vick, according to NFL sources. The Raiders package would include receivers Randy Moss and Jerry Porter plus the No.1 overall pick in the 2007 draft for Vick and the Falcons first round pick (10th overall).

[Trippin4136]

Moss and Porter? come on that makes no sense.

Who the hell would Vick throw to?

[UNC41]

Ronald Curry and Ted Ginn?????

[Trippin4136]

Perhaps. But I think they are better off getting a guy like JaMarcus Russell who can just sling the ball downfield to Moss. He's fresh and won't have the baggage that Vick going to Oakland will.

[Trippin4136]

Bill Parcells has jumped off the Cowboys wagon into retirement.

[dmbhoosier21]

Bill Parcells has jumped off the Cowboys wagon into retirement.

That's a surprise, I thought he would stick it out a couple more years with Dallas showing some potential

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/01/22/parcells.ap/index.html

[UNC41]

Perhaps. But I think they are better off getting a guy like JaMarcus Russell who can just sling the ball downfield to Moss. He's fresh and won't have the baggage that Vick going to Oakland will.

Atlanta would definitely be getting the better of the deal. Then again, it's the kind of deal you expect Oakland to make these days. Schaub throwing to Moss and Porter could be a great passing attack.

[xBigNastyx]

nice snubbing of Manning by Belichick, did you all see that?

Manning went to the center of the field presumably to find Dungy and Belichick. He extends his hand to Belichick and the guy keeps on walking which leads to the awkward stomach pat by Manning. I don't think he could handle the fact that a QB, almost singlehandedly, took down his team.


Our defense wore down and was fatigued. Nice try. They beat us, but our defense being so tired and worn down from last week was a big part of it.

Manning praised the Patriots and Brady, Bruschi, Belichick, Faulk, etc after the game. Why do y'all listen to LT's opinion cause it's negative instead of Manning's who is positive?

That right here is proof that a lot of people just simply LOOK for reasons to criticize the New England Patriots, and that continues to prove how one sided people are sometimes.

Another thing that bothered me is the ridiculous story line the media SHOVED down my throat during the games.

Manning deserves it, black coaches being in the SB. All that is great, but I don't need to hear the media's opinion and who they are rooting for shoved down my throat the whole game. Just give me the news and let me watch the damn game.

[dmbmuskie]

Our defense wore down and was fatigued. Nice try. They beat us, but our defense being so tired and worn down from last week was a big part of it.

Manning praised the Patriots and Brady, Bruschi, Belichick, Faulk, etc after the game. Why do y'all listen to LT's opinion cause it's negative instead of Manning's who is positive?

That right here is proof that a lot of people just simply LOOK for reasons to criticize the New England Patriots, and that continues to prove how one sided people are sometimes.

Another thing that bothered me is the ridiculous story line the media SHOVED down my throat during the games.

Manning deserves it, black coaches being in the SB. All that is great, but I don't need to hear the media's opinion and who they are rooting for shoved down my throat the whole game. Just give me the news and let me watch the damn game.


My take on it was this. The Pats were outmanned. The scheme is only as good as the players and the dependence on Reiche Caldwell and Chad Scott type players really really bit the Pats in the ass. If they keep Deion Branch, and add someone through free agency last year to the linebacker core or the secondary I think they are headed to Miami.

[Trippin4136]

Our defense wore down and was fatigued. Nice try. They beat us, but our defense being so tired and worn down from last week was a big part of it. Here you go. lol, nice try.


what are you talking about? I even mentioned in one of the threads in nDMBc pertaining to the game that it looked like the dome conditions wore down the Patriots. I wasn't even knocking the Pats in that last comment you quoted, just Belichick's post-game behavior. I commend the Pats for that game. It was such a good game, you can't take anything away from either team.

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5499245&postcount=16

well serve me some crow. what a comeback. The Colts had a mountain to climb and they did it.

I dislike the Patriots. I don't hide it. But credit to them in this game. It was one of the best games I've seen in a long long time. It had everything.

I think the dome conditions took a toll on the Pats. The Patriots came out firing in the first half. I think in the 2nd half their conditioning wore down. Still, they are that good to contend and have the game in their destiny at the end.

Hell of a game. Both teams. I'm happy Peyton Manning is finally going to the Super Bowl. I'm not a Colts fan but just been a fan of his for a long time.

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=185058&page=6

[xBigNastyx]

My take on it was this. The Pats were outmanned. The scheme is only as good as the players and the dependence on Reiche Caldwell and Chad Scott type players really really bit the Pats in the ass. If they keep Deion Branch, and add someone through free agency last year to the linebacker core or the secondary I think they are headed to Miami.


Caldwell dropped TWO passes.. One of them in the endzone didn't matter cause they scored anyways, and the other was on a potential 1st down.

Caldwell is not the reason they lost. AT ALL. We were still worn down from the previous game against SD. They talked about it all week leading up to the game how worn out they were. If they were fresh, they would have won that game.

[xBigNastyx]

what are you talking about? I even mentioned in one of the threads in nDMBc pertaining to the game that it looked like the dome conditions wore down the Patriots. I wasn't even knocking the Pats in that last comment you quoted, just Belichick's post-game behavior. I commend the Pats for that game. It was such a good game, you can't take anything away from either team.



http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=185058&page=6


You said Manning single handedly beat the Patriots. Sure he did his thing, but you failed to point out in that statement that the Patriots were just worn down. You made it sound like Manning played against a fresh D and just beat em up, which is entirely false.

[Trippin4136]

Now you want to rebut that Manning didn't do it all himself? Fine. But regardless of who, why or how the Colts won, Belichick can still be a human being and shake the hand of the opposing QB.

Also, Manning is still leading that offense. The game was on his shoulders. So maybe he didn't 100% win the game himself, but it was all up to him in the end b/c the Colts D could barely hang on.

That was exactly what the Colts wanted, a track meet. It wore the Patriots down sufficiently thanks to the heat in the dome and the illness some guys were fighting.

And no, I didn't imply that the Pats were 100% fresh. NO one is at this point in the season even at kickoff. Just b/c I didn't mention they wore down, you interpret that's what I imply. Which is just completely vague and unfounded.

[xBigNastyx]

My take on it was this. The Pats were outmanned. The scheme is only as good as the players and the dependence on Reiche Caldwell and Chad Scott type players really really bit the Pats in the ass. If they keep Deion Branch, and add someone through free agency last year to the linebacker core or the secondary I think they are headed to Miami.

Chad Scott wasn't much of a factor in this game nor was he a problem either.

Our linebacker core was just fine. The problem was fatigue and injuries, and that's really all.

Colvin getting hurt and Hawkins getting hurt did not help at all.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take credit away fromt he Colts. I'm happy to see Manning finally int he SB, but it pisses me off when people don't give the Patriots credit. The Patriots lost that game due to fatigue. But I do give credit to the Colts for capitalizing on it.

[xBigNastyx]

Now you want to rebut that Manning didn't do it all himself? Fine. But regardless of who, why or how the Colts won, Belichick can still be a human being and shake the hand of the opposing QB.

Also, Manning is still leading that offense. The game was on his shoulders. So maybe he didn't 100% win the game himself, but it was all up to him in the end b/c the Colts D could barely hang on.

That was exactly what the Colts wanted, a track meet. It wore the Patriots down sufficiently thanks to the heat in the dome and the illness some guys were fighting.

And no, I didn't imply that the Pats were 100% fresh. NO one is at this point in the season even at kickoff. Just b/c I didn't mention they worn down, you interpret that's what I imply. Which is just completely vague and unfounded.

It didn't wear them down. They were already worn down significantly due to the Chargers game.

[Trippin4136]

It didn't wear them down. They were already worn down significantly due to the Chargers game.

yes it did. certainly, the wear on the Chargers game is included. But the heat in the dome coupled with the flu bug that was going around definitely contributed to their slowing and cramping late in the game.

[xBigNastyx]

Now you want to rebut that Manning didn't do it all himself? Fine. But regardless of who, why or how the Colts won, Belichick can still be a human being and shake the hand of the opposing QB.

Also, Manning is still leading that offense. The game was on his shoulders. So maybe he didn't 100% win the game himself, but it was all up to him in the end b/c the Colts D could barely hang on.

That was exactly what the Colts wanted, a track meet. It wore the Patriots down sufficiently thanks to the heat in the dome and the illness some guys were fighting.

And no, I didn't imply that the Pats were 100% fresh. NO one is at this point in the season even at kickoff. Just b/c I didn't mention they wore down, you interpret that's what I imply. Which is just completely vague and unfounded.

For the record.. If it were the other way around, I bet that you guys would be saying how unclassy the Pats are for turning the heat up to use that lame of an advantage.

[xBigNastyx]

yes it did. certainly, the wear on the Chargers game is included. But the heat in the dome coupled with the flu bug that was going around definitely contributed to their slowing and cramping late in the game.


Of course it did, but that's not my point.

My point is, they were already worn down. They didn't wear down due to the heat there. Certainly it didn't help, but my point is that they would've been worn down anyways.

[xBigNastyx]

yes it did. certainly, the wear on the Chargers game is included. But the heat in the dome coupled with the flu bug that was going around definitely contributed to their slowing and cramping late in the game.


Do yuo even know who had the flu?

Like 2 significant players.

[Trippin4136]

what the hell are you trying to do man?

Many times in many threads on this board I commended the Pats for their play. It was an incredible game in all phases on both sides of the ball and on both sidelines. I'm not knocking the Patriots, just giving my observations.

If the Colts deliberately turned up the heat knowing it would slow the Pats and fatigue them, then so be it. That's homefield advantage for you. Pumping artificial noise is one thing, but turning the heat up is just using your stadium to your advantage.

[Trippin4136]

Do yuo even know who had the flu?

Like 2 significant players.

going by what I heard on the radio and what was said on TV yesterday supposedly 5 guys on their defense all had varying sickness.

[dmbmuskie]

Chad Scott wasn't much of a factor in this game nor was he a problem either.

Our linebacker core was just fine. The problem was fatigue and injuries, and that's really all.

Colvin getting hurt and Hawkins getting hurt did not help at all.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to take credit away fromt he Colts. I'm happy to see Manning finally int he SB, but it pisses me off when people don't give the Patriots credit. The Patriots lost that game due to fatigue. But I do give credit to the Colts for capitalizing on it.

You really have drank the Pats kool-aid. They had 10 million to spend, and their biggest signing was Seau. It's unexcuseable.

[xBigNastyx]

You really have drank the Pats kool-aid. They had 10 million to spend, and their biggest signing was Seau. It's unexcuseable.


I agree they could have signed some more depth.

But you said the problem was Chad Scott and Caldwell, and those aren't even close to being the reasons that they aren't going to Miami.

[xBigNastyx]

what the hell are you trying to do man?

Many times in many threads on this board I commended the Pats for their play. It was an incredible game in all phases on both sides of the ball and on both sidelines. I'm not knocking the Patriots, just giving my observations.

If the Colts deliberately turned up the heat knowing it would slow the Pats and fatigue them, then so be it. That's homefield advantage for you. Pumping artificial noise is one thing, but turning the heat up is just using your stadium to your advantage.

You mean how the 42.6 times that you just came in saying PATS SUCK PATS SUCK PATS SUCK?

Those times? Or which other ones?

[Trippin4136]

Caldwell wasn't the direct reason but that drop when he had the sideline to himself really did hurt. He even catches that ball and stays in bounds the Pats probably get to run another minute or two off the clock. That would have made Manning's last drive much tougher or non-existent.

[Trippin4136]

You mean how the 42.6 times that you just came in saying PATS SUCK PATS SUCK PATS SUCK?

Those times? Or which other ones?

FOR LAST NIGHT'S GAME!

jesus. learn to read in context. did you not continue on to the next sentence?

I fucking compliment your team and you spin it. Unreal.

[xBigNastyx]

what the hell are you trying to do man?

Many times in many threads on this board I commended the Pats for their play. It was an incredible game in all phases on both sides of the ball and on both sidelines. I'm not knocking the Patriots, just giving my observations.

If the Colts deliberately turned up the heat knowing it would slow the Pats and fatigue them, then so be it. That's homefield advantage for you. Pumping artificial noise is one thing, but turning the heat up is just using your stadium to your advantage.

I didn't say it wasn't ok to do that. I'm not saying you are implying I think it's ok or anything though.


My point was that if it were hte other way around, people would find a way to say teh Pats do it because they are unclassy. A lot of people just look for ways to criticize the Patriots because who knows why. Because people are envious, and just despise the league's best team of late. I don't know, but I'm sick of hearing about it. I don't care if people don't like my team, but don't shove it down my throat like an immature fuck.

I'm not talking directly to you or saying you do this. I'm just stating it in general.

[xBigNastyx]

Caldwell wasn't the direct reason but that drop when he had the sideline to himself really did hurt. He even catches that ball and stays in bounds the Pats probably get to run another minute or two off the clock. That would have made Manning's last drive much tougher or non-existent.

Oh I agree. But in all fairness to Caldwell, he is a reason we GOT to where we did. HE didn't lose us that game. It certainly didn't help, but that didn't lose the game.

[Trippin4136]

Comes with the territory man. As a Yankees fan I get shit thrown my way about everything, just gotta roll with it.

[41ravens]

bignasty, why can't you sack up and take a loss? i was waiting for the illness/fatigue card to be played and i'm not really surprised it was you who brought it up. did the colts not play last weekend? why was new england the only team who was tired? and what about the pressure on the colts? if a team is worthy of the super bowl, they get over their fatigue and play through it.

[xBigNastyx]

Comes with the territory man. As a Yankees fan I get shit thrown my way about everything, just gotta roll with it.

Oh I know, but this is different.


No one unfairly says the Yankees are an unclassy team and dirty or whatnot.

The Patriots are far from being that way.


Belichick gets a lot of crap. Sure he is a strange guy at times, but the fact that he didn't kiss Manning's butt after the game doesn't maen he's a jerk. It's just his personality. He doesn't want to talk about a loss after the game, he just wants to get out of there. Nothing wrong with that. He doesn't mean anything bad by it.

[xBigNastyx]

bignasty, why can't you sack up and take a loss? i was waiting for the illness/fatigue card to be played and i'm not really surprised it was you who brought it up. did the colts not play last weekend? why was new england the only team who was tired? and what about the pressure on the colts? if a team is worthy of the super bowl, they get over their fatigue and play through it.

If you read my posts you'd know I give credit to Manning and the Colts.


Nice try princess.

[Trippin4136]

He doesn't have to "kiss his ass". But fucking shaking the guy's hand and saying good game should not be so difficult. He's a professional, act like it.

How many times has Peyton Manning had to suck it up and shake the Pats hands from the losers side? Belichick can reciprocate.

[41ravens]

If you read my posts you'd know I give credit to Manning and the Colts.


Nice try princess.

i know, but you still try to come up with an excuse for every loss. had you just given credit and said your team was outplayed, that would be one thing. instead, it was, "well, the colts did great, but, the pats were tired. had they not been tired, they would've won."

and what's your argument for brady storming off the field right after the game? where's his sportsmanship?

[Trippin4136]

If you read my posts you'd know I give credit to Manning and the Colts.


Nice try princess.

You have to understand from that a outside perspective it comes across as a backhanded compliment.

"well, good game, good for them but it was our own fault in the end". That doesn't translate as a truly giving respect to the other team.

[xBigNastyx]

bignasty, why can't you sack up and take a loss? i was waiting for the illness/fatigue card to be played and i'm not really surprised it was you who brought it up. did the colts not play last weekend? why was new england the only team who was tired? and what about the pressure on the colts? if a team is worthy of the super bowl, they get over their fatigue and play through it.

The Colts didn't play the toughest game they have played the way the Patriots did. The Patriots claimed all week that that Chargers game was the toughest win they ever got and it took a LOT out of them. It was talked about PRIOR to the game all week long. It's not an excuse that came out after the game.

Yes, the Colts played too, but they play a finesse speed style that doesn't tire you out quite as much.

The Patriots have bigger guys on defense and fatigue just got to them quickly. And like Trippin said, the temp of the dome didn't help either.


But I'll be pullin for the Colts come Feb 4. Since hte Pats aren't in it anymore, I'd love to see Manning get that SB. Plus, I LOATHE Rex Grossman and have no choice but to root against him and his lame little jog he has after he throws an interception.

[dmbmuskie]

I agree they could have signed some more depth.

But you said the problem was Chad Scott and Caldwell, and those aren't even close to being the reasons that they aren't going to Miami.

They didn't need to sign depth, they needed to sign guys who could play. If they could have found a legit MLB and a legit CB they're so much better. Most teams have these problems because of the cap, the Pats had this problem because of their stupidity. The Eagles got hammered for this.

Chad Scott and Caldwell are just a few of the guys the used to save money.

[Trippin4136]

dude going to play the Ravens defense is not exactly like playing, well, the Giants defense. The Ravens will pound out those finesse and "soft" characteristics the Colts get pegged with.

[xBigNastyx]

i know, but you still try to come up with an excuse for every loss. had you just given credit and said your team was outplayed, that would be one thing. instead, it was, "well, the colts did great, but, the pats were tired. had they not been tired, they would've won."

and what's your argument for brady storming off the field right after the game? where's his sportsmanship?

There is it. The unclassy card being played again.


Mr Manning disagrees and believes the Patriots are a classy organization..


I stated the truth. The Pats were tired. That's no lie. LIKE I ALREADY SAID BEFORE, the Colts did a good job of capitalizing on it and they deserve the win.

All I was doing, was stating the truth.

[41ravens]

The Colts didn't play the toughest game they have played the way the Patriots did. The Patriots claimed all week that that Chargers game was the toughest win they ever got and it took a LOT out of them. It was talked about PRIOR to the game all week long. It's not an excuse that came out after the game.

Yes, the Colts played too, but they play a finesse speed style that doesn't tire you out quite as much.

The Patriots have bigger guys on defense and fatigue just got to them quickly. And like Trippin said, the temp of the dome didn't help either.


But I'll be pullin for the Colts come Feb 4. Since hte Pats aren't in it anymore, I'd love to see Manning get that SB. Plus, I LOATHE Rex Grossman and have no choice but to root against him and his lame little jog he has after he throws an interception.

you and me both. i almost want to say it'll be a blowout, but the bears are a tricky team to judge.

and what's the story on tank johnson? does anyone know if he's allowed to leave the state of illinois to go to miami?

[Trippin4136]

and what's the story on tank johnson? does anyone know if he's allowed to leave the state of illinois to go to miami?

:lol oh man that'd be ridiculous. i've got to believe he'll be given an exemption if that is the case.

[41ravens]

:lol oh man that'd be ridiculous. i've got to believe he'll be given an exemption if that is the case.

i'm sure he will. he is, after all, a professional athlete.

[xBigNastyx]

They didn't need to sign depth, they needed to sign guys who could play. If they could have found a legit MLB and a legit CB they're so much better. Most teams have these problems because of the cap, the Pats had this problem because of their stupidity. The Eagles got hammered for this.

Chad Scott and Caldwell are just a few of the guys the used to save money.

did you watch the game. The CB were the strength of the game. Ellis Hobbs and Samual played a superb game.

Bruschi, and Seau did just fine at MLB thanks. Seau's injury didn't help, but they didn't know he'd get hurt.

Colvin, and Vrabel on the outside is pretty damn good.

Banta-Cain is a good plug in guy as well.

Like I said, you have no idea.

Yeah, their stupidity. WOW.

Do YOU still believe it was stupid to let the huge price of Vinatieri go?

Even though Gostowski did the job perfectly.

God if you don't know about the Pats organization, then just don't talk about it. That simple.

[xBigNastyx]

I actually read about Tank earlier, he will be allowed to leave his home to go to the game. :lol

[xBigNastyx]

They didn't need to sign depth, they needed to sign guys who could play. If they could have found a legit MLB and a legit CB they're so much better. Most teams have these problems because of the cap, the Pats had this problem because of their stupidity. The Eagles got hammered for this.

Chad Scott and Caldwell are just a few of the guys the used to save money.


Chad Scott has been a Patriot for a few years. They didn't go get him for this season. Nice try.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

[41ravens]

yeah, someone in the super bowl thread said that he had been cleared to leave.

[Trippin4136]

those guys filled in admirably. it doesn't negate the fact that Bob Kraft still has the willingness to let important players go when they deserve a raise.

The Asante Samuel decision will go a long way to continuing the trend or bucking it.

[dmbmuskie]

did you watch the game. The CB were the strength of the game. Ellis Hobbs and Samual played a superb game.

Bruschi, and Seau did just fine at MLB thanks. Seau's injury didn't help, but they didn't know he'd get hurt.

Colvin, and Vrabel on the outside is pretty damn good.

Banta-Cain is a good plug in guy as well.

Like I said, you have no idea.

Yeah, their stupidity. WOW.

Do YOU still believe it was stupid to let the huge price of Vinatieri go?

Even though Gostowski did the job perfectly.

God if you don't know about the Pats organization, then just don't talk about it. That simple.

Your comments just confirm that you did drink the Kool-Aid.

The numbers do not lie. You only see the good stuff, and miss the glaring holes.

It is STUPID to leave money on the table when you are a contender with obvious weaknesses.

If the guys you mentioned played for other teams you would rip them. You have the best defensive line in football, and a bunch of shit behind them other than Samuel.

[dmbmuskie]

Chad Scott has been a Patriot for a few years. They didn't go get him for this season. Nice try.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

They actually resigned him. He's sucked his whole time in the NFL.

[UNC41]

Bill Simmons actually gives up an objective column of a New England fan's view of yesterday's game. His last sentence really tells the story of the game.

"I'll just remember that we had it – we had it – and Manning and the Colts took it away."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/070122

[dmbhoosier21]

Caldwell dropped TWO passes.. One of them in the endzone didn't matter cause they scored anyways, and the other was on a potential 1st down.

Caldwell is not the reason they lost. AT ALL. We were still worn down from the previous game against SD. They talked about it all week leading up to the game how worn out they were. If they were fresh, they would have won that game.

:lol You know who is "classless" Dungy, Manning, Irsay, and Polian for not giving credit, where credit is due - to the San Diego Chargers. Seriously, we all know that the New England Patriots can never be outplayed or "beaten". Just like the post above, San Diego wore down the Pats and was the obvious reason the Colts were able to "beat" the Pats. It is completely irrelevant that Indy played a bruising back the week before and had to play one of the greatest & toughest defenses in league history. The AFC trophy should be split in half with the San Diego Chargers.

On behalf of Colts fans everywhere.....Thank You San Diego Chargers for wearing down the mighty Patriots which gave the Indianapolis Colts the fortune of defeating New England

We should all know by now that it is impossible to beat the NE Patriots outright. There is always some external variable that is outside the control of the Patriots that causes them to "lose"

:lol But hey, this NE fans are humble as well because they said "I give credit to the Colts for the win (A win that was only made possible because NE had to play the week before against a tough team)

[xBigNastyx]

:lol You know who is "classless" Dungy, Manning, Irsay, and Polian for not giving credit, where credit is due - to the San Diego Chargers. Seriously, we all know that the New England Patriots can never be outplayed or "beaten". Just like the post above, San Diego wore down the Pats and was the obvious reason the Colts were able to "beat" the Pats. It is completely irrelevant that Indy played a bruising back the week before and had to play one of the greatest & toughest defenses in league history. The AFC trophy should be split in half with the San Diego Chargers.

On behalf of Colts fans everywhere.....Thank You San Diego Chargers for wearing down the mighty Patriots which gave the Indianapolis Colts the fortune of defeating New England

We should all know by now that it is impossible to beat the NE Patriots outright. There is always some external variable that is outside the control of the Patriots that causes them to "lose"

:lol But hey, this NE fans are humble as well because they said "I give credit to the Colts for the win (A win that was only made possible because NE had to play the week before against a tough team)

congrats on twisting my words.

[dmbhoosier21]

congrats on twisting my words.

:lol How exactly did I "twist" -- "We were still worn down from the previous game against SD. They talked about it all week leading up to the game how worn out they were. If they were fresh, they would have won that game."

I mean yeah, you did say "I give credit to the Colts" in your other posts but what does the above quote say to you?

To me it says "I give credit to the Colts because they were at the right time and at the right place" - NE had to play the week before against a tough team (it's the playoffs, all games are against tough teams) and were therefore fatigued and was the only reason they lost as evidenced by .....

"We were still worn down from the previous game against SD. They talked about it all week leading up to the game how worn out they were. If they were fresh, they would have won that game."

[xBigNastyx]

They actually resigned him. He's sucked his whole time in the NFL.


The Pats have him as simply a BACK UP.

You act as though he is important to their defense.

[dmbhoosier21]

congrats on twisting my words.


Ummm, so how exactly did I twist your words?

edit: although I'd have to admit, most NE fans have been great on the boards (even Ms. Buttchin) It was obvious that the game could have gone either way, it was just a matter of Indy and Manning making the critical plays at the end instead of Brady and NE. I still believe Brady is the most clutch QB in the league, he can execute better than any QB under pressure.

[dmbmuskie]

The Pats have him as simply a BACK UP.

You act as though he is important to their defense.

If he's on the field he's important. Everyone on the roster is important. That used to be a philosophy in New England, but now it is obviously not.

If you don't want to use him as an example, pick basically anyone else except Samuel and the line, and they could have been upgraded.

The players were out there, and the opportunity was missed. Perhaps, calling them stupid was a little harsh, but if they do the same thing again this year it is stupidy.

[xBigNastyx]

If he's on the field he's important. Everyone on the roster is important. That used to be a philosophy in New England, but now it is obviously not.

If you don't want to use him as an example, pick basically anyone else except Samuel and the line, and they could have been upgraded.

The players were out there, and the opportunity was missed. Perhaps, calling them stupid was a little harsh, but if they do the same thing again this year it is stupidy.

I didn't mean he isn't important, but he barely plays. Re signing Chad Scott was not a problem. He is a solid player. It's your opinion that he isn't very good.

Ah forget it, you have no knowledge of the Patriots at all, so I'll just let you have your tiny opinions.

Keep thinking they lost the game with their CB (even though Hobbs and Samuel played a tremendous game).

[dmbmuskie]

I didn't mean he isn't important, but he barely plays. Re signing Chad Scott was not a problem. He is a solid player. It's your opinion that he isn't very good.

Ah forget it, you have no knowledge of the Patriots at all, so I'll just let you have your tiny opinions.

Keep thinking they lost the game with their CB (even though Hobbs and Samuel played a tremendous game).

Why do you think I know nothing about the Patriots?

Chad Scott is the 3rd corner. He's on the field all the time.

I'm blaming the whole defense, not just the CBs. They played well early, but he defense might as well not been on the field at all in the 2nd half. You do not play well while allowing 455 yards.

[Trippin4136]

Oh man, those skinny posts down the middle to Dallas Clark was like a knife in the guts of their D.

[dmbmuskie]

The PTI guys ripped the Pats for their thrifty ways. That made me happy.

[xBigNastyx]

Why do you think I know nothing about the Patriots?

Chad Scott is the 3rd corner. He's on the field all the time.

I'm blaming the whole defense, not just the CBs. They played well early, but he defense might as well not been on the field at all in the 2nd half. You do not play well while allowing 455 yards.

THEY WERE FATIGUED MORE THAN USUAL.

[xBigNastyx]

The PTI guys ripped the Pats for their thrifty ways. That made me happy.

You just can't say anything good about em huh?

[dmbmuskie]

THEY WERE FATIGUED MORE THAN USUAL.

They were fatigued because they guys who should be serving as quality depth start instead. In some cases there is no depth. DT is the heart of the 34, but there is an unproven undrafted free agent as the top backup.

Take a look at the Pats draft from this past year, and it makes no sense what so ever after Maroney. Jackson is a workout warrior who never produced up to his ability in college, which is totally outside the Patriots way of thinking. Then they managed to take 2 TEs, which is a strength of team to begin with.


You just can't say anything good about em huh?

They have a great QB.

They believe in playing physical football.

Their front 3 is the envy of every team that plays the 3-4.

Bob Kraft made 10 million dollars this year than he should have without angering the fan base, which makes him a good bussiness man.

[xBigNastyx]

They were fatigued because they guys who should be serving as quality depth start instead. In some cases there is no depth. DT is the heart of the 34, but there is an unproven undrafted free agent as the top backup.

Take a look at the Pats draft from this past year, and it makes no sense what so ever after Maroney. Jackson is a workout warrior who never produced up to his ability in college, which is totally outside the Patriots way of thinking. Then they managed to take 2 TEs, which is a strength of team to begin with.




They have a great QB.

They believe in playing physical football.

Their front 3 is the envy of every team that plays the 3-4.

Bob Kraft made 10 million dollars this year than he should have without angering the fan base, which makes him a good bussiness man.

You flip flo a lot. I have heard you say the Steelers have the best front 3 of teams that used a 3-4

[Tiduwho]

Since when is being fatigued even worth mentioning after a football game, let alone as a defense as to why a team lost?

Isn't that the point? You're not supposed to wear down. Why do you expect people to grant the Pats a pass (or even credit) because they were "fatigued"?

[xBigNastyx]

Since when is being fatigued even worth mentioning after a football game, let alone as a defense as to why a team lost?

Isn't that the point? You're not supposed to wear down. Why do you expect people to grant the Pats a pass (or even credit) because they were "fatigued"?

Nevermind. People continue to miss the point that should be seen by common sense.


Let's just move on.

[dmbmuskie]

You flip flo a lot. I have heard you say the Steelers have the best front 3 of teams that used a 3-4

Warren had a hell of a year this year. It's very close, but right now I'd give the Pats a slight edge. If Keisel improves in his second year as a strater I could see Pittsburgh reclaiming that spot quickly?

[xBigNastyx]

Warren had a hell of a year this year. It's very close, but right now I'd give the Pats a slight edge. If Keisel improves in his second year as a strater I could see Pittsburgh reclaiming that spot quickly?


Nope.


And IMO, they didnt have a better front last year, or this year than the Pats Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren.
Hampton has an edge on Wilfork, but both Pats DE are better than the Pitts DE IMO.

[dmbmuskie]

Nope.


And IMO, they didnt have a better front last year, or this year than the Pats Seymour, Wilfork, and Warren.
Hampton has an edge on Wilfork, but both Pats DE are better than the Pitts DE IMO.

Chances are the Steelers play 4-3 next year, so it won't matter.

The Steelers destroyed Tomlinson and LJ. They didn't give up 100 yards all year. They had better stats that the Pats acorss the board in run defense.


Denver gave up 100 to Tatum Bell, Sammy Morris, Mo Jones-Drew, and Travis Henry.

Aaron Smith is the most underrated in football, but he is getting older. Seymour isn't that much better than him.

[xBigNastyx]

Chances are the Steelers play 4-3 next year, so it won't matter.

The Steelers destroyed Tomlinson and LJ. They didn't give up 100 yards all year. They had better stats that the Pats acorss the board in run defense.


Denver gave up 100 to Tatum Bell, Sammy Morris, Mo Jones-Drew, and Travis Henry.

Aaron Smith is the most underrated in football, but he is getting older. Seymour isn't that much better than him.


Whatever man.

Those are awful ways to back up who's a better front.

I know they are diff defenses, but LJ ran for 100 yds against Baltimore, and like 40 against Indy. Does that mean Indy has a better run D?

NOPE.

And Seymour is easily better than Smith.

[xBigNastyx]

Chances are the Steelers play 4-3 next year, so it won't matter.

The Steelers destroyed Tomlinson and LJ. They didn't give up 100 yards all year. They had better stats that the Pats acorss the board in run defense.


Denver gave up 100 to Tatum Bell, Sammy Morris, Mo Jones-Drew, and Travis Henry.

Aaron Smith is the most underrated in football, but he is getting older. Seymour isn't that much better than him.


Which game did Denver give up 100 to Tatum Bell? A scrimmage?

[dmbhoosier21]

Since when is being fatigued even worth mentioning after a football game, let alone as a defense as to why a team lost?

Isn't that the point? You're not supposed to wear down. Why do you expect people to grant the Pats a pass (or even credit) because they were "fatigued"?

B/C to some NE fans, .....eh, forget the lengthy drawn out explanations;

It's because bignasty is the biggest homer on the boards - NE has never lost outright in his eyes

[xBigNastyx]

B/C to some NE fans, .....eh, forget the lengthy drawn out explanations;

It's because bignasty is the biggest homer on the boards - NE has never lost outright in his eyes

Again with the making up stuff.

Keep living in a fantasy world

[dmbmuskie]

Whatever man.

Those are awful ways to back up who's a better front.

I know they are diff defenses, but LJ ran for 100 yds against Baltimore, and like 40 against Indy. Does that mean Indy has a better run D?

NOPE.

And Seymour is easily better than Smith.

Yeah, facts and statisitics are never as good as your opinions.

I meant NE gave up 100 yards to those backs.

[dmbhoosier21]

Again with the making up stuff.

Keep living in a fantasy world

:lol I merely pointed out how shortsighted your perspective is on football relating to the Pats. If you really think the only reason your beloved Pats lost to Indy was because they played SD the week before and were somehow significantly more fatigued than the Colts well then you are either an idiot or a homer. Both teams played 18 games before facing each other in the playoffs.

Isn't this what you stated -- Caldwell is not the reason they lost. AT ALL. We were still worn down from the previous game against SD. They talked about it all week leading up to the game how worn out they were. If they were fresh, they would have won that game.

Unless you have some sort of reading disability, that above implies that Pats only lost b/c they were worn out from the SD game.

I agree the Pats defense was worn out but that's b/c the Colts went up and down the field for the entire second half (not including half of the 2nd quarter) with a no-huddle offense meaning the defense could not substitute (technically they can, but not with Manning at QB)

I ask again, how did I "twist" your words or make stuff up?

In conclusion, either you are a huge homer or just an idiot. I tend to lean on the former, cus' the only evidence I have about your intelligence (or lack there of) is restricted to your football "knowledge"

[dmbhoosier21]

Since when is being fatigued even worth mentioning after a football game, let alone as a defense as to why a team lost?

Isn't that the point? You're not supposed to wear down. Why do you expect people to grant the Pats a pass (or even credit) because they were "fatigued"?

Ummmm, simply because they are the New England Patriots; it's common sense. NE played SD the week before, Indy played Balt the week before with both teams having totalled 18 games. It's really rather simple.

It surely had nothing to do with the Colts no-huddle offense going up and down the field the entire second half (and part of the second quarter) and the NE defensive players unable to substitute.

When are people going to learn?!?!?

[dmbmuskie]

Ummmm, simply because they are the New England Patriots; it's common sense. NE played SD the week before, Indy played Balt the week before with both teams having totalled 18 games. It's really rather simple.

It surely had nothing to do with the Colts no-huddle offense going up and down the field the entire second half (and part of the second quarter) and the NE defensive players unable to substitute.

When are people going to learn?!?!?

Even when they did have a chance to substitute they had no one to put in.

[dmbhoosier21]

Even when they did have a chance to substitute they had no one to put in.

Could you imagine that as a 300 lb. lineman? Going up and down the field with no chance to substitute (or no one to substitute with) and getting down and staying in a 3 or 4 pt. stance for at least 15 secs. with Manning up there calling (sometimes bluffing) line, route etc....changes. Legs must have been burnin'.

Saying, a team was fatigued from a week before and using that as an excuse for a loss just seems so completely idiotic to me. Both teams played the same number of games.

Ultimately, the game could have gone either way, saying or implying a team only won b/c the other team was fatigued from a week ago just takes away from the whole thing - damn homers.

[Trippin4136]

The Patriots had numerous attempts to put that game away even after the Colts got back into it. They didn't. The Colts took advantage.

I mentioned that the heat inside the dome coupled with a flu bug going around contributed to the Pats conditioning during the game. However, that is not a reason for a loss.

Manning and his WRs made big plays in BIG moments.

[dmbhoosier21]

The Patriots had numerous attempts to put that game away even after the Colts got back into it. They didn't. The Colts took advantage.

I mentioned that the heat inside the dome coupled with a flu bug going around contributed to the Pats conditioning during the game. However, that is not a reason for a loss.

Game could have gone either way, it was a great game; trying to excuse the loss by saying they were worn out from a week before seems so shortsighted to me and belittles football.


Manning and his WRs made big plays in BIG moments.

:lol Actually it's more like - Manning and his TEs and Lineman made big plays in BIG moments.

Saturday with a TD and Dan Klecko (reserve DT/fullback) having more TD catches in the playoffs than both Harrison and Wayne - which better change in the SUPER BOWL (damn it feels good to say that)

[Trippin4136]

true I guess it was more Dallas Clark than Marvin and Wayne. However, Wayne's snag of that ball saved their season.

Gotta give props to Alexander (is that his name?). The guy no one suspects, on that deep out route really carved into the Pats.

I still can't believe Marvin dropped that ball on that WIDE open slant. That was going for 15-20 yards easy.

[dmbmuskie]

Could you imagine that as a 300 lb. lineman? Going up and down the field with no chance to substitute (or no one to substitute with) and getting down and staying in a 3 or 4 pt. stance for at least 15 secs. with Manning up there calling (sometimes bluffing) line, route etc....changes. Legs must have been burnin'.

Saying, a team was fatigued from a week before and using that as an excuse for a loss just seems so completely idiotic to me. Both teams played the same number of games.

Ultimately, the game could have gone either way, saying or implying a team only won b/c the other team was fatigued from a week ago just takes away from the whole thing - damn homers.

The Pats just aren't built for that type of game.

[dmbmuskie]

I never heard of the tempature of the dome causing problems for other teams until Sunday.

[Trippin4136]

No they aren't. They fell right into the Colts trap in the second half. The Colts undoubtedly wanted a track meet b/c the Patriots can't keep up in a high paced, high scoring game. Tom Brady may have been 10-0 in domes, but with the Colts able to utilize their speed in the dome and force the Pats to play faster, the game swung their way.

[Trippin4136]

I never heard of the tempature of the dome causing problems for other teams until Sunday.

Really? I'm sure it's not all that uncommon.

Again, like I've said, it's not like pumping in artificial noise in a dome. Turning the ole thermostat up is just using home-field advantage, well, to your advantage.

[dmbhoosier21]

true I guess it was more Dallas Clark than Marvin and Wayne. However, Wayne's snag of that ball saved their season.

Gotta give props to Alexander (is that his name?). The guy no one suspects, on that deep out route really carved into the Pats.

I think you are talking about Fletcher the 3rd string TE. There's also Utech as another TE. Anyways yeah, Fletcher had a huge long catch during that last drive.

Dallas Clark has been huge in the playoffs - with another 100+ yards reception game.

There were definitely plays during the game that could have easily gone the other way and would have ended Indy's season (Saturday pickin up the fumble at the goal-line and Wayne recovering the near fumble during the last drive) I'm no homer/idiot, I know the game could have gone either way - Pats are definitely a great team. They are/were a dynasty.

[Trippin4136]

Fletcher? Ok. I dunno where I got Alexander from.

[dmbhoosier21]

No they aren't. They fell right into the Colts trap in the second half. The Colts undoubtedly wanted a track meet b/c the Patriots can't keep up in a high paced, high scoring game. Tom Brady may have been 10-0 in domes, but with the Colts able to utilize their speed in the dome and force the Pats to play faster, the game swung their way.

Like I've said before, the key to playing the Colts is not simply blitzing and pressuring Manning (though it does help) but it's minimizing the number of touches the offense gets by running the ball, managing the clock, and forcing Manning to be patient by just dropping back the DBs and Manning throwing check-downs all game long.

[dmbmuskie]

No they aren't. They fell right into the Colts trap in the second half. The Colts undoubtedly wanted a track meet b/c the Patriots can't keep up in a high paced, high scoring game. Tom Brady may have been 10-0 in domes, but with the Colts able to utilize their speed in the dome and force the Pats to play faster, the game swung their way.

Yeah, it pretty much went how I thought it would from the drive to make it 21-6 to the end. The Pats looked old, slow, and tired.

Really? I'm sure it's not all that uncommon.

Again, like I've said, it's not like pumping in artificial noise in a dome. Turning the ole thermostat up is just using home-field advantage, well, to your advantage.

It really is a good idea, especially against a cold weather team, with no strong subs.

[dmbhoosier21]

Fletcher? Ok. I dunno where I got Alexander from.

Eh, unless you are a Colts fan I don't know how you'd know their 3rd string TE

[dmbmuskie]

Like I've said before, the key to playing the Colts is not simply blitzing and pressuring Manning (though it does help) but it's minimizing the number of touches the offense gets by running the ball, managing the clock, and forcing Manning to be patient by just dropping back the DBs and Manning throwing check-downs all game long.

I agree. I think the key to beating the Colts is on offense. If you have success throwing the ball early you can get Sanders out of the box, and just abuse the small defensive lineman.

I don't think there is magic bullet to stopping Manning. Pressuring him is great, but you cannot expose you secondary to do it.

[dmbhoosier21]

I agree. I think the key to beating the Colts is on offense. If you have success throwing the ball early you can get Sanders out of the box, and just abuse the small defensive lineman.

I don't think there is magic bullet to stopping Manning. Pressuring him is great, but you cannot expose you secondary to do it.

Yup, exactly.

If you are going to pressure and blitz Manning you better hide it well (where blitz is coming from) and give him different looks up front as well as disguising the coverage. 3-4 defenses has been relatively "successful" against Manning with Pitt and esp. NE.

With the defense, I agree at this point the defense has been pretty good because for one, the D.ends are not just simply playing pass and going after the QB, and they are just stacking the box with Sanders and even sending another DB to pinch from the outside. No matter how small you are, you get that many people in the "box", it'll be hard to run against that. If the opposing offense is successful in passing early, then that forces the Colts to drop back = less people in box = a good probability of being successful running the ball.

[xBigNastyx]

Eh, unless you are a Colts fan I don't know how you'd know their 3rd string TE


I know who he is.

Bryan Fletcher..

[dmbhoosier21]

I know who he is.

Bryan Fletcher..

:thumbsup Although I'm still willing to bet that most non-Colts fan would not know who the Colts' 3rd string TE is. Hell, their 1st string TE string ain't exactly a household name.

[thebigv]

Dallas Clark isn't a household name?

I think you need to define 'Colts fans'. Some 'Colts fans' think that Edge is still around. And no, I'm not joking. That's how bad some of the people in Indianapolis are with this football team. I'm glad I'm not a Colts fan, because I'd be embarrassed to all hell with that fanbase.

[dmbhoosier21]

Dallas Clark isn't a household name?

I think you need to define 'Colts fans'. Some 'Colts fans' think that Edge is still around. And no, I'm not joking. That's how bad some of the people in Indianapolis are with this football team. I'm glad I'm not a Colts fan, because I'd be embarrassed to all hell with that fanbase.

When I say a "household" name I mean - Manning, Brady, Urlacher, LT, Vick, etc...where just about anyone who is somewhat interested in football knows who they are - meaning a majority of the NFL fanbase is aware of Dallas Clark regardless of who they cheer for. What's your definition?

Personally I think Dallas Clark is underrated and is one of the top receiving TEs in the league. Considering he has to play with Harrison and Wayne, he isn't exactly the #1 option for Manning. Thus I don't consider him a "household" name. Picky arent ya.

Clark is a household name to "Colts fans", at least ones that I would consider "fans". I really don't know what you are talking about but most fans I know (personally) and people I interact with in nDMBc are pretty knowledgeable about the Colts. Personally I have been a "fan" for quite some time and the community has been pretty "interested" in the team since Manning came.

How's that soapbox you are on? You seem to know a lot about Colts fans.

Do you live in the Indianapolis area? I don't know the type of Indy "fans" you know but if they still think Edge is still playing then you are hanging out with some idiots.

[dmbmuskie]

Big Nasty was this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

[dmbhoosier21]

Big Nasty was this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

:lol It's always a riot to see what the guy comes up with as to the reasons (excuses) anytime his Brady and the Pats lose. :lol If it wasn't for the SD Chargers it would be the Pats vs. Bears.......lucky for us (Indy fans) I guess.

[xBigNastyx]

Big Nasty was this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

You're a tool..

Keep trying to pick an argument.

[Tiduwho]

Big Nasty was this you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

I have it on my MySpace page. :thumbsup

[Tiduwho]

How's that soapbox you are on? You seem to know a lot about Colts fans.

Do you live in the Indianapolis area? I don't know the type of Indy "fans" you know but if they still think Edge is still playing then you are hanging out with some idiots.

Don't worry, he's the same way about Bears fans. Pays attention to the two or three idiots, and ignores the two or three hundred good fans in the next room.

[dmbmuskie]

You're a tool..

Keep trying to pick an argument.

It was a joke, so get over it.

[xBigNastyx]

It was a joke, so get over it.

Cute.

[dmbmuskie]

Cute.

Did you just say Tom brady was cute?:evil

[Tiduwho]

A tribute to Tony Romo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWVEU9hx18

[UNC41]

A tribute to Tony Romo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEWVEU9hx18

This guy, BradyFan83, is complete money.

The Final Drive (tribute to Farve) made me completely lose it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6ZBqT_H4Es

Here are all of his other ones.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t-_CsEzKOA

Ron Mexicooooooooooooooooo (to Evenflow) is also fantastic. And Tastefully (to Journey's Faithfully) about CJ and TO is just great.

[xBigNastyx]

Did you just say Tom brady was cute?:evil

Comedy just isn't your thing huh?

[dmbmuskie]

Comedy just isn't your thing huh?

Actually, it is. Even, if it wasn't, I'd keep trying, like you do with football.

[xBigNastyx]

Actually, it is. Even, if it wasn't, I'd keep trying, like you do with football.


Grow up Mr. "I talk about teams I know nothing about".

I don't pretend to know everything about every team the way you do. You pretend to know EVERYTHING about everything associated with football, and you come up very, very short each time.

Fool.

Now quit trying to start crap with me you chode.

[dmbmuskie]

Grow up Mr. "I talk about teams I know nothing about".

I don't pretend to know everything about every team the way you do. You pretend to know EVERYTHING about everything associated with football, and you come up very, very short each time.

Fool.

Now quit trying to start crap with me you chode.

It just kills you that I can speak about what brought the Patriots down in the end. As soon as Branch got shipped to Seattle I knew they would come up short, and the only reason that happened is because the front office is so full of themselves, that they now make stupid football decisions trying to prove their greatness. It's inexcuseable that the Pats decision makers left 10 million dollars on the table this year.

I can talk about anything football, scheme, strategy, personel, etc, and the majority of the time I can back it up with fact. When it is an opinion, I'll admit it. It's always an informed opinion. You can throw out there that I'm a homer all you want, but the fact is the Steelers are one of the greatest organzations of all times. There is plenty of good to talk about.

In the end,as always, when you can't have anything intelligent to say, you resort to calling people names.

[xBigNastyx]

It just kills you that I can speak about what brought the Patriots down in the end. As soon as Branch got shipped to Seattle I knew they would come up short, and the only reason that happened is because the front office is so full of themselves, that they now make stupid football decisions trying to prove their greatness. It's inexcuseable that the Pats decision makers left 10 million dollars on the table this year.

I can talk about anything football, scheme, strategy, personel, etc, and the majority of the time I can back it up with fact. When it is an opinion, I'll admit it. It's always an informed opinion. You can throw out there that I'm a homer all you want, but the fact is the Steelers are one of the greatest organzations of all times. There is plenty of good to talk about.

In the end,as always, when you can't have anything intelligent to say, you resort to calling people names.


Insightful. You keep bringing up Branch, but not having him on the team has nothing to do with why they aren't in the Superbowl. You are just someone from the outside trying to pretend as if they know about the New England Patriots. So give it up already. Branch isn't the reason they lost to the Colts. Get over it. Neither is the secondary. Get over it. It's just the popular opinion among people who have no idea about the Patriots.

I am fed up with you just trying to call me out trying to start an arguement on here. Then when you finally DO piss me off, you say I'm a jerk for getting pissed off. That's cute. You and your petty little games and petty little jokes meant as subtle insults need to be shoved up your ass.

Grow up MUSKIE. Stick to talking about the Steelers, they seem to be all you know about.

[xBigNastyx]

It just kills you that I can speak about what brought the Patriots down in the end. As soon as Branch got shipped to Seattle I knew they would come up short, and the only reason that happened is because the front office is so full of themselves, that they now make stupid football decisions trying to prove their greatness. It's inexcuseable that the Pats decision makers left 10 million dollars on the table this year.

I can talk about anything football, scheme, strategy, personel, etc, and the majority of the time I can back it up with fact. When it is an opinion, I'll admit it. It's always an informed opinion. You can throw out there that I'm a homer all you want, but the fact is the Steelers are one of the greatest organzations of all times. There is plenty of good to talk about.

In the end,as always, when you can't have anything intelligent to say, you resort to calling people names.


Letting Vinatieri go and getting someone cheaper who did jsut as good a job. Was that a bad decision?

Nope.

Letting Branch go and not over paying him (he should not get number one money) and getting someone else who did just as well (Caldwell) was ok.

Did Caldwell's dropped pass lose the game?

NOT EVEN CLOSE. So if you don't know about the Patriots, it's simple. Don't talk about it. Do you see me pretending to know about the Steelers every move and every aspect of their organization? No. Know why? Because I don't and I'm not an idiot who pretends they know everything.

[dmbmuskie]

You've still never answered the question I've been asking for weeks. Why do you think that I know nothing about the Patriots?

They're actually the team I follow most closely outside of the AFC North, because of all the literature about them and their success, which intrigues me, and the fact that my brother is a die hard Pats fan.

[xBigNastyx]

You've still never answered the question I've been asking for weeks. Why do you think that I know nothing about the Patriots?

They're actually the team I follow most closely outside of the AFC North, because of all the literature about them and their success, which intrigues me, and the fact that my brother is a die hard Pats fan.


How can two brother be die hard fans of the Steelers and the Patriots? Sounds like someone jumped on a bandwagon....

And you may know things here or there about the Patriots, but you don't seem to know what's really going on and have skewed opinions. The fact that you say the Pats lost because of losing Branch and their secondary proves you don't know what you're talking about. The secondary was a strength in the playoffs, and Caldwell did fantastic all season. These aren't the reasons AT ALL they lost.

You continue to pretend as though you are the Pats genious here though and trying to tell ME how it is with them and you just think you are mr know it all. It's bullshit, so stop acting as though you know everything.

[xBigNastyx]

You've still never answered the question I've been asking for weeks. Why do you think that I know nothing about the Patriots?

They're actually the team I follow most closely outside of the AFC North, because of all the literature about them and their success, which intrigues me, and the fact that my brother is a die hard Pats fan.

Read my posts and you'll understand since I've answered it several times.

[Trippin4136]

The ineffectiveness did play a large role in the eventual defeat but it wasn't a direct cause in the short term. The lack of a big play WR stymied the offense most of the season. They never gained a sense of being able to gain a big play when they really needed it. That eventually caught up with them not only against Indy but really against SD, the Jets late in the reg. season, etc.

As far as the team's spending habits, it's odd how they budget. To the normal fan it seems like it'd be logical to spend some logical amount more than they did this season. However, they still got all the way to the AFC title game, so they clearly do something right.

The secondary I believe did in fact led to a direct cause and effect deficiency against the Colts. They had literally no-name, light experienced guys out there trying to defend the Pats passing offense.

[xBigNastyx]

The ineffectiveness did play a large role in the eventual defeat but it wasn't a direct cause in the short term. The lack of a big play WR stymied the offense most of the season. They never gained a sense of being able to gain a big play when they really needed it. That eventually caught up with them not only against Indy but really against SD, the Jets late in the reg. season, etc.

As far as the team's spending habits, it's odd how they budget. To the normal fan it seems like it'd be logical to spend some logical amount more than they did this season. However, they still got all the way to the AFC title game, so they clearly do something right.

The secondary I believe did in fact led to a direct cause and effect deficiency against the Colts. They had literally no-name, light experienced guys out there trying to defend the Pats passing offense.

Doesnt matter, they still got to the AFC game. And they didn't lose the AFC game because of it.

Asante Samuel tied for the NFL lead in INTs...No name huh?

Ellis Hobbs did a terrific job of covering Reggie Wayne..

Whatever, I'm done talking with people who claim to know about the team I completely follow, even though they just know some of the tiny basics.

[xBigNastyx]

The ineffectiveness did play a large role in the eventual defeat but it wasn't a direct cause in the short term. The lack of a big play WR stymied the offense most of the season. They never gained a sense of being able to gain a big play when they really needed it. That eventually caught up with them not only against Indy but really against SD, the Jets late in the reg. season, etc.

As far as the team's spending habits, it's odd how they budget. To the normal fan it seems like it'd be logical to spend some logical amount more than they did this season. However, they still got all the way to the AFC title game, so they clearly do something right.

The secondary I believe did in fact led to a direct cause and effect deficiency against the Colts. They had literally no-name, light experienced guys out there trying to defend the Pats passing offense.

Wait, what?

[clayj41]

I hate to do this, but I sorta agree with you BigNasty. The Patriots secondary was not the reason they lost, and although Branch would've probably helped the team, other receivers stepped up. Brady (due to Billicheck's style) is the type of QB who likes to get everyone involved by throwing to numerous receivers anyways...it's not a system that focuses on one prominent receiver. And while losing Vinatieri wasn't preferable, the biggest role it played was the fact that the Colts just happened to pick him up. In the end, it just came down to the Colts being the better team on one particular day.

[Trippin4136]

Wait, what?

first off, relax, i'm not knocking the Pats. I'm just giving you my insight.

Yes, they had Asante Samuel who has been terrific all year. But, not having Harrison did hurt against the Colts and I think it showed. I mean come on, they had guys like Ray Mickens (who's almost as old as his jersey #), Rashe Baker (who had 2 tackles in 2006) out there in Cover 2 and Nickel coverage trying to stop the Colts passing game. You can't tell me that they allowed 349 passing yards and didn't have holes in the secondary.

[dmbmuskie]

How can two brother be die hard fans of the Steelers and the Patriots? Sounds like someone jumped on a bandwagon....

And you may know things here or there about the Patriots, but you don't seem to know what's really going on and have skewed opinions. The fact that you say the Pats lost because of losing Branch and their secondary proves you don't know what you're talking about. The secondary was a strength in the playoffs, and Caldwell did fantastic all season. These aren't the reasons AT ALL they lost.

You continue to pretend as though you are the Pats genious here though and trying to tell ME how it is with them and you just think you are mr know it all. It's bullshit, so stop acting as though you know everything.

My brother was a huge Drew Bledsoe fan for some reason when we were growing up, and that turned into him being a huge Patriots fan. He's a black sheep.

You obviously have yet to comprehend what I am saying to you. They lost the game because they tried to turn role players into go to guys and lock down corners and haven't added anyone who can play linebacker since Colvin. Often in the NFL the salary cap forces this upon the upper echelon teams, but the Pats had money to throw at the problem.

I'm starting to think Patriots fans are just stupid for their belief that Kraft, BB and Pioli are the best in football. If the Steelers would have ever made it to the AFC championship game and lost with a bunch of has beens and never weres, while there was money left to spend, there would be a riot. The Steelers media and their fanbase would have never let it go.

[dmbmuskie]

The Vinateri argument is complete bullshit. I said all along, that he was just a kicker, and I've never once mentioned him as a bad decsision. 20 years ago a great kicker was a very valued commodity in the NFL, but today most kickers make field goals inside of 45 yards at the same rate their predecessors made extra points.

[xBigNastyx]

Y'all are right. The Pats should have envisioned Harrison getting hurt and had a Pro Bowl signed over the offseason to play backup.

Same for Wilson.

:rolleyes

I'm done talking to y'all about something you aren't that informed about.

[dmb71687]

Muskie, you have been so far off on 75% of your posts, I have to call you out. The Patriots haven't added anyone since Colvin? They have four ABOVE average linebackers, Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about there. You knew as soon as they didn't sign Branch they were going to come up short? Are you kidding me? They went to the AFC championship game, and should have won, your telling me you knew that was going to happen because they didn't resign DEION BRANCH?!:lol That's laughable. Seems to me like the Seahawks went to the Superbowl last year without Branch, what did they do this year? "They're trying to turn role players into stars." Again, a completely foolish statement if you know anything about the history of the Patriots recent success. They have NEVER, NEVER had "stars" when they were winning Superbowls, it has always been about role players. What do you think Deion Branch was before Tom Brady? A role player. They have consistently been able to USE their role players effectively, and that didn't change this year.

If you honestly think the Pats front office is "full of themsevles" because they didn't spend every single penny they had available, you are an idiot. Not EVERY team in professional sports has to empty out their wallet and sign the biggest free agents, for an attempt at one year of glory, maybe that's why the Patriots have consistently been Superbowl contenders for, oh I don't know, the last 6 years? Yeah those guys are real idiots, saving money, AND still putting incredibly competitive teams on the field, what are they thinking?

To be honest, you sound like a bitter Steelers fan whose team didn't make it to the playoffs, and wish it was you contending for a Superbowl every year instead of the Patriots.

And for the record, I hate both teams.

[dmbmuskie]

Y'all are right. The Pats should have envisioned Harrison getting hurt and had a Pro Bowl signed over the offseason to play backup.

Same for Wilson.

:rolleyes

I'm done talking to y'all about something you aren't that informed about.

Harrisson is a shadow of the player he used to be, and he's been hurt constantly. That is usually what happens with older players as their body breaks down. You cannot argue that. He could have easily been upgraded over. You don't need Pro Bowlers to win, but you do need a solid core of players still playing at a high level. Chris Hope would have been a great fit, and he didn't get ridiculous money from the Titans. If the Pats add Chris Hope, Akin Ayodele, and keep Deion Branch, then they atleast tried to put their team in the best position to win.

[Trippin4136]

Y'all are right. The Pats should have envisioned Harrison getting hurt and had a Pro Bowl signed over the offseason to play backup.

Same for Wilson.

:rolleyes

I'm done talking to y'all about something you aren't that informed about.

what are you even saying? I never even sniffed at that idea. All I said was that missing Harrison hurt them in the playoffs and especially against Indy.

As far as not being informed, I know I am informed about the Pats whether you believe it or not, or, whether you like it or not.

[dmbmuskie]

Muskie, you have been so far off on 75% of your posts, I have to call you out. The Patriots haven't added anyone since Colvin? They have four ABOVE average linebackers, Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about there. You knew as soon as they didn't sign Branch they were going to come up short? Are you kidding me? They went to the AFC championship game, and should have won, your telling me you knew that was going to happen because they didn't resign DEION BRANCH?!:lol That's laughable. Seems to me like the Seahawks went to the Superbowl last year without Branch, what did they do this year? "They're trying to turn role players into stars." Again, a completely foolish statement if you know anything about the history of the Patriots recent success. They have NEVER, NEVER had "stars" when they were winning Superbowls, it has always been about role players. What do you think Deion Branch was before Tom Brady? A role player. They have consistently been able to USE their role players effectively, and that didn't change this year.

If you honestly think the Pats front office is "full of themsevles" because they didn't spend every single penny they had available, you are an idiot. Not EVERY team in professional sports has to empty out their wallet and sign the biggest free agents, for an attempt at one year of glory, maybe that's why the Patriots have consistently been Superbowl contenders for, oh I don't know, the last 6 years? Yeah those guys are real idiots, saving money, AND still putting incredibly competitive teams on the field, what are they thinking?

To be honest, you sound like a bitter Steelers fan whose team didn't make it to the playoffs, and wish it was you contending for a Superbowl every year instead of the Patriots.

And for the record, I hate both teams.

Colvin was the last linebacker they have brought in worth a damn. Seau, Teddy, and Vrabel were all very good, but they're not the players they were 3 years ago. Any of those 3 could have been replaced by someone better.

Tom Brady is arguably the best QB in football, maybe ever, but every QB needs weapons. Branch was his best weapon and most trusted reciever, and they struggled all year without him out there. I don't think he'll ever be the player he was in New Engalnd out in Seattle, but that doesn't mean he didn't have great value to the Patriots. I'll use Hines Ward as an example. He's not a true number 1 reciever, but he's a great fit in Pittsburgh. He held out, got paid, and won a Super Bowl.

When the Patriots won Super Bowls, they have had plenty of stars. Most of them are no longer with the team or have declined sharply, but the Pats had a great collection of talent not so long ago. They relied on their role players as well, but they had top level talent supporting them.

I don't think they should have spent all their money on 1 player, but 10 million dollars could have been spent on 3 or 4 quality players. Let's say they sign Maake Keamateau to be the back up NT. He's a huge upgrade over whoever 99 was playing late in the game. They have no need to save money. They're not the Oakland A's.

The Steelers have contended for the Super Bowl for the last 15 years, so that's a stupid argument as well.

[Trippin4136]

From what I've heard and read, the biggest beef about the lack of money is spent is that people (fans, media whomever) fear the front office is wasting the best years of Brady's career by not surrounding him with they best talent the can get.

[xBigNastyx]

:lol :lol

Y'all are ridiculous.

To anyone who thinks they lost the AFC game because of not having Branch, you are an idiot. That's all.

Guess what? If they still had Branch, they woulda had the same record and same result they had this year in the playoffs. But yeah, letting him go caused them to lose.. :lol

[xBigNastyx]

Muskie, you have been so far off on 75% of your posts, I have to call you out. The Patriots haven't added anyone since Colvin? They have four ABOVE average linebackers, Seau, Bruschi, Vrabel, and Colvin, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about there. You knew as soon as they didn't sign Branch they were going to come up short? Are you kidding me? They went to the AFC championship game, and should have won, your telling me you knew that was going to happen because they didn't resign DEION BRANCH?!:lol That's laughable. Seems to me like the Seahawks went to the Superbowl last year without Branch, what did they do this year? "They're trying to turn role players into stars." Again, a completely foolish statement if you know anything about the history of the Patriots recent success. They have NEVER, NEVER had "stars" when they were winning Superbowls, it has always been about role players. What do you think Deion Branch was before Tom Brady? A role player. They have consistently been able to USE their role players effectively, and that didn't change this year.

If you honestly think the Pats front office is "full of themsevles" because they didn't spend every single penny they had available, you are an idiot. Not EVERY team in professional sports has to empty out their wallet and sign the biggest free agents, for an attempt at one year of glory, maybe that's why the Patriots have consistently been Superbowl contenders for, oh I don't know, the last 6 years? Yeah those guys are real idiots, saving money, AND still putting incredibly competitive teams on the field, what are they thinking?

To be honest, you sound like a bitter Steelers fan whose team didn't make it to the playoffs, and wish it was you contending for a Superbowl every year instead of the Patriots.

And for the record, I hate both teams.


Finally, someone else who knows what he is talking about.

[xBigNastyx]

The Steelers have contended for the Super Bowl for the last 15 years, so that's a stupid argument as well.

Espec in 1999 when they were 6-10 right? And all the other losing seasons they had in the past 15 years. God you are so misinformed it's scary.

You know a lot of names of players and stuff, and it makes it seem like you know what you're talking about. But I'm not fooled anymore.

[dmbmuskie]

Espec in 1999 when they were 6-10 right? And all the other losing seasons they had in the past 15 years. God you are so misinformed it's scary.

You know a lot of names of players and stuff, and it makes it seem like you know what you're talking about. But I'm not fooled anymore.

Fine, 14 out of the last 15 years they were Super Bowl contenders. You really got me.

[Trippin4136]

:lol :lol

Y'all are ridiculous.

To anyone who thinks they lost the AFC game because of not having Branch, you are an idiot. That's all.

Guess what? If they still had Branch, they woulda had the same record and same result they had this year in the playoffs. But yeah, letting him go caused them to lose.. :lol

:lol funny enough, if you have ever listened to ESPN Radio 890 in Boston, their main drive guy has been bitching about not having Branch, and that being a reason for offensive shortcomings, like all season.

[dmbmuskie]

Losing your number one reciever, rather he is a true number one or not, is a huge blow. He was almost always the hot read for Brady. Brady bitched about the recievers not making the right adjustments all year.

[xBigNastyx]

:lol funny enough, if you have ever listened to ESPN Radio 890 in Boston, their main drive guy has been bitching about not having Branch, and that being a reason for offensive shortcomings, like all season.

No SHIT. But in this case, it did NOT lOSE THEM THE FUCKING GAME. It caused them to work harder on offense and make up for it a bit more, but they still got to the AFC game. They wouldn't have won any more games had they still had Branch.

My God, what's so hard to understand?

[xBigNastyx]

Losing your number one reciever, rather he is a true number one or not, is a huge blow. He was almost always the hot read for Brady. Brady bitched about the recievers not making the right adjustments all year.

Did they still win those games and get to the AFC game?

Yes they fucking did. God it's like talking to a blind squirrel.

Not having Branch is not why they aren't in the Superbowl. End of fucking story.

[Trippin4136]

No SHIT. But in this case, it did NOT lOSE THEM THE FUCKING GAME. It caused them to work harder on offense and make up for it a bit more, but they still got to the AFC game. They wouldn't have won any more games had they still had Branch.

My God, what's so hard to understand?

Where did I say the lack of Branch LOST THEM THE FUCKING GAME?!

I said not having a go-to, reliable WR slowed the potential of their offense over the course of a season.

WTF is so hard to understand?!

[xBigNastyx]

Where did I say the lack of Branch LOST THEM THE FUCKING GAME?!

I said not having a go-to, reliable WR slowed the potential of their offense over the course of a season.

WTF is so hard to understand?!
This whole discussion stemmed from mr muskie saying they lost because they let BRanch go and if they kept Branch things woulda been different, and yuo seem to be defending that statement even though it is ENTIRELY false.

If Branch was still wearing number 83 for the Patriots, they would have still went 12-4, and lost in the AFC game. Hell maybe they wouldn't have even gotten TO the AFC game, cause Gaffney was HUUUGGGE int he playoffs, and he wouldn't of been playing had Branch still been there.

But there is no way the results would haev been different if Branch still played for the Pats.

[dmbmuskie]

Did they still win those games and get to the AFC game?

Yes they fucking did. God it's like talking to a blind squirrel.

Not having Branch is not why they aren't in the Superbowl. End of fucking story.

The only thing that matters is bringing the Super Bowl home. You sound like a Bengals fan. It's bullshit to say you're just happy to be there.

Again, not having Branch is just one example of how the decision makers screwed up. I've named several.

[xBigNastyx]

The ineffectiveness did play a large role in the eventual defeat but it wasn't a direct cause in the short term. The lack of a big play WR stymied the offense most of the season. They never gained a sense of being able to gain a big play when they really needed it. That eventually caught up with them not only against Indy but really against SD, the Jets late in the reg. season, etc.

As far as the team's spending habits, it's odd how they budget. To the normal fan it seems like it'd be logical to spend some logical amount more than they did this season. However, they still got all the way to the AFC title game, so they clearly do something right.

The secondary I believe did in fact led to a direct cause and effect deficiency against the Colts. They had literally no-name, light experienced guys out there trying to defend the Pats passing offense.


Right there you implied not having Branch caught up with them against Indy and SD, which would in turn imply that the results may of been different had Branch still been there.

Which is false.

What else you got?

[xBigNastyx]

The only thing that matters is bringing the Super Bowl home. You sound like a Bengals fan. It's bullshit to say you're just happy to be there.

Again, not having Branch is just one example of how the decision makers screwed up. I've named several.


Hardly, I'm content with NOTHING other than a Superbowl win.

Nice try at making shit up AGAIN.

Not having Branch has NOTHING to do with not making the SB. Get that through your little head.

[Trippin4136]

YOU imply that's what I meant.

But I was living in the context of what they had there.

Is it not possible to just look at it through one track? They're receiving corps was not that talented. Yes they made big plays throughout the season and in the post-season. With the guys they HAVE, their inability to be a reliable go to guy eventually caught up to them, period.

Branch was out of the equation when I made that statement.

[UNC41]

This pissing match is bringing teh lolz.

My interpretation is that nobody is saying Branch alone is the reason the Pats fell short. They are saying New England left $10 million on the table, which could have been used to better fill holes throughout the team (may have included keeping Branch). The better players that Pats could have gotten with that money is what would have made them a much better team, and probably still playing.

[dmbmuskie]

Actually, for the sake of argument Branch could have made the season turn out much differently.

If the Pats could have won 1 more game they would have played the AFC title game at home.

[dmbmuskie]

This pissing match is bringing teh lolz.

My interpretation is that nobody is saying Branch alone is the reason the Pats fell short. They are saying New England left $10 million on the table, which could have been used to better fill holes throughout the team (may have included keeping Branch). The better players that Pats could have gotten with that money is what would have made them a much better team, and probably still playing.

We have a winner.:thumbsup

[Trippin4136]

Shit, I even gave the Pats CREDIT for their unorthodox spending.

[Trippin4136]

This pissing match is bringing teh lolz.

My interpretation is that nobody is saying Branch alone is the reason the Pats fell short. They are saying New England left $10 million on the table, which could have been used to better fill holes throughout the team (may have included keeping Branch). The better players that Pats could have gotten with that money is what would have made them a much better team, and probably still playing.

ding ding ding!

[dmbmuskie]

Hardly, I'm content with NOTHING other than a Superbowl win.

Nice try at making shit up AGAIN.

Not having Branch has NOTHING to do with not making the SB. Get that through your little head.

Does this work for you instead?

The Patriots offense missed having a go to reciever.

[xBigNastyx]

I'm done talking to blind people.

[xBigNastyx]

This pissing match is bringing teh lolz.

My interpretation is that nobody is saying Branch alone is the reason the Pats fell short. They are saying New England left $10 million on the table, which could have been used to better fill holes throughout the team (may have included keeping Branch). The better players that Pats could have gotten with that money is what would have made them a much better team, and probably still playing.

Someone said the CBs and not having Branch were the reasons they lost to the Colts...:lol :lol :lol

It was muskie, and that statement is completely retarded.

[Trippin4136]

Does that mean we won't be "seeing" you around here anymore? :lol



I had to. you tossed up a meatball on that one.

[Trippin4136]

Someone said the CBs and not having Branch were the reasons they lost to the Colts...:lol :lol :lol

It was muskie, and that statement is completely retarded.

both were seriously shortcomings in their roster. more so in the depth chart on the CB side.

[dmb71687]

Fine, 14 out of the last 15 years they were Super Bowl contenders. You really got me.

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't make the playoffs this year.

Woop looks like were down to 13 out of the last 15, and thats without even checking, seems like I might have to though, as some of your "facts" have been misinformed.

[dmbmuskie]

Someone said the CBs and not having Branch were the reasons they lost to the Colts...:lol :lol :lol

It was muskie, and that statement is completely retarded.

Please, get it right. I've blamed the entire secondary, the linebackers, the back up NT and the wide recievers on the field, as well as Kraft, Pioli, and BB.

[dmb71687]

This pissing match is bringing teh lolz.

My interpretation is that nobody is saying Branch alone is the reason the Pats fell short. They are saying New England left $10 million on the table, which could have been used to better fill holes throughout the team (may have included keeping Branch). The better players that Pats could have gotten with that money is what would have made them a much better team, and probably still playing.

We have a winner.:thumbsup

:lol :lol :lol Too bad you word for word said the reason they came up short is because they didn't have Branch, Muskie. Let's be consistent with our posts here, not just jump on whosever side is against the Patriots. Credibility is a big quality on these boards.

[dmbmuskie]

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't make the playoffs this year.

Woop looks like were down to 13 out of the last 15, and thats without even checking, seems like I might have to though, as some of your "facts" have been misinformed.

The Steelers weren't Super Bowl contenders this year? That's funny, because the defending Super Bowl champs is pretty much always a contender in my book.

[UNC41]

Someone said the CBs and not having Branch were the reasons they lost to the Colts...:lol :lol :lol

It was muskie, and that statement is completely retarded.

Maybe he said it once, but it clearly isn't the main focus of what he's been arguing in this thread.

[dmbmuskie]

:lol :lol :lol Too bad you word for word said the reason they came up short is because they didn't have Branch, Muskie. Let's be consistent with our posts here, not just jump on whosever side is against the Patriots. Credibility is a big quality on these boards.

Please, please, please, go ready everything I've posted on this subject.

[xBigNastyx]

both were seriously shortcomings in their roster. more so in the depth chart on the CB side.


Ok, but it's not the reason they lost to Indy.

Why is that hard to get, seriosuly I don't know how else to explain it.

What happened in the reg season didn't matter. They would have had to win 1-2 more games to get homefield. Different CBs or having Branch back wouldn't have changed the outcomes of 2 of those games IMO. So it all comes down to the Indy game. IMO they needed more depth on the defensive line for late in the game.

Not having Branch didn't hurt their results on the season in the big picture. Nor did having Hobbs and Samuel as the starting CB.

WOW. :rolleyes

[xBigNastyx]

Please, please, please, go ready everything I've posted on this subject.


He's right, you flip flop to what the popular opinion is. To me your opinion is completely worthless about anything not concerning the Steelers.

Do me a favor and quit talking about New England. At least Jon knows a bit about what he is talking about when argueing with me. You just say shit and then go back on it claiming you didn't.

[Trippin4136]

Ok, but it's not the reason they lost to Indy.

Why is that hard to get, seriosuly I don't know how else to explain it.



Certainly there isn't one moment to pinpoint how it could have cost them, but again, running the guys they did out there to defend the Colts passing game certainly played a major factor. Again, you can't say allowing 349 passing yards doesn't reflect on your secondary.

And they only would have to win 1 more game (perhaps against, say, Indy) to have the AFC title game in Foxboro, and yes, a pass D, a money target, can make the difference of one game. But those are all hypothetical scenarios.

From things that are only measurable, like the AFC title game, imo, a weak and depleted secondary cost them that game in the end. Manning threw it straight down field on them and they could not stop it.

[xBigNastyx]

Uh, correct me if I'm wrong, they didn't make the playoffs this year.

Woop looks like were down to 13 out of the last 15, and thats without even checking, seems like I might have to though, as some of your "facts" have been misinformed.

Yeah, he just makes up stuff. All he does is know players names and tries to make himself up to be Mr Football Whiz. But don't let it fool you.

[dmbmuskie]

\ IMO they needed more depth on the defensive line for late in the game.




I just said that.

[xBigNastyx]

Certainly there isn't one moment to pinpoint how it could have cost them, but again, running the guys they did out there to defend the Colts passing game certainly played a major factor. Again, you can't say allowing 349 passing yards doesn't reflect on your secondary.

And they only would have to win 1 more game to have the AFC title game in Foxboro, and yes, a pass D, a money target, can make the difference of one game. But those are all hypothetical scenarios.

Right. It does reflect on the secondary. But IMO, the Colts passing game got going in the second half due to the tiring of the Pats D line and not being able to keep pressuring Manning as they did in the first half. When a QB has all the time in the world (espec Manning), I don't care who is in the secondary, he is going to do well.


Denver has a superb secondary, but Manning chewed them up, does that mean they lost their season because of their secondary?

I don't think so.

[xBigNastyx]

I just said that.


Want a mother fucking girl scout cookie?

You also said not having Branch and someone else at CB other than Hobbs is the reason they lost to the Colts.

Do me a favor and go talk to someone who doesn't think your opinion is worthless.

[xBigNastyx]

Certainly there isn't one moment to pinpoint how it could have cost them, but again, running the guys they did out there to defend the Colts passing game certainly played a major factor. Again, you can't say allowing 349 passing yards doesn't reflect on your secondary.

And they only would have to win 1 more game (perhaps against, say, Indy) to have the AFC title game in Foxboro, and yes, a pass D, a money target, can make the difference of one game. But those are all hypothetical scenarios.

From things that are only measurable, like the AFC title game, imo, a weak and depleted secondary cost them that game in the end. Manning threw it straight down field on them and they could not stop it.

IMO, Manning was able to throw on the secondary, because the line was tired as all hell and couldn't put ANY pressure on him.

[xBigNastyx]

Yes!! It DOES reflect on the secondary and who you're putting out there. Your going to tell me you can expect top flight defense of Reggie Wayne by lining up Ray Mickens against him?

As for Denver, again, you have to look at it with measurables in the here and now.

Now I wouldn't say that about Denver. But I would say it about NE in that one game.

Ellis Hobbs lined up agaisnt Wayne and did a great job.


Asante Samuel lined up and Harrison and shut him down.

What else?

[dmbmuskie]

Want a mother fucking girl scout cookie?

You also said not having Branch and someone else at CB other than Hobbs is the reason they lost to the Colts.



Those are all valid points, to basically everyone but you.

[Trippin4136]

IMO, Manning was able to throw on the secondary, because the line was tired as all hell and couldn't put ANY pressure on him.

Certainly that was also a factor. But thats when your secondary has to step up and make some plays.

[Trippin4136]

Ellis Hobbs lined up agaisnt Wayne and did a great job.


Asante Samuel lined up and Harrison and shut him down.

What else?

what else? What else is that its comical that you cannot find or accept legit roster faults in your own team.

[xBigNastyx]

Right. It does reflect on the secondary.

What's that say?

do you guys just see what you want to see in my posts so that you can strenghthen your arguement?

[dmbmuskie]

Ellis Hobbs lined up agaisnt Wayne and did a great job.


Asante Samuel lined up and Harrison and shut him down.

What else?

You probably needed someone to cover the Tight Ends, but that's just a guess.

The Colts TE run like the wind, so you basically need a corner to cover them.

[xBigNastyx]

what else? What else is that its comical that you cannot find faults in your own team.


Of course I can. I am only defending the fact that CB and WR aren't the position defiencies that caused the Patriots to lose to the Colts.

That's all.

[cbotnyse]

How bout them Bears?

[xBigNastyx]

Whatever though, let's move on to another topic. I am done trying to reason with people that flat out just don't get what I'm saying.

[dmbmuskie]

Of course I can. I am only defending the fact that CB and WR aren't the position defiencies that caused the Patriots to lose to the Colts.

That's all.

Again, no one is saying that. You are so lost in your own rage against us you cannot even make sense at this point. You might want to walk away from your computer.

[xBigNastyx]

How bout them Bears?

I hope the Colts destroy them, and Grossman throws 3 picks and does his lame little waddle jog back to the sideline.

[Trippin4136]

Of course I can. I am only defending the fact that CB and WR aren't the position defiencies that caused the Patriots to lose to the Colts.

That's all.

And I accept that the Pats wore down in the 2nd half, for the reasons I detailed following the game itself.

But over the course of the season, those 2 areas were the most glaring for the Pats and it did in fact catch up with them at a time when they needed it most. More so, IMO, the CBs/secondary. Their WRs I thought played really well against the Colts.