NFL Football 2006-2007

[xBigNastyx]

dude, get off it. you know damn well rackers makes that kick and your team heads home with a loss and a quarterback controversy. maybe this is why people give you so much shit...you ask for it.


:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup

[Tiduwho]

dude, get off it. you know damn well rackers makes that kick and your team heads home with a loss and a quarterback controversy. maybe this is why people give you so much shit...you ask for it.

A controversy among some of the fans that want to be right so bad that Grossman sucks and Griese should've been the starter maybe, but not the majority, and obviously not in reality, as the Bears Franchise is committed to Rex. Jay Marrioti is not the Bears Franchise, no controversy.


I merely responded to the "Bears are not even close to the top team, actually have a pitiful offense like last year, and the win might as well not count because it "should" have been a loss on a field goal) to a really bad team" sentiment that's been brewing for a while now.

I simply respond with "Hey, well guess what? So has every other team."

By the way, since when do people give me "shit"? What people, you? This is sports chat, about sports teams. Why would I take anything personal? :lol

[Tiduwho]

Shawne Merriman exposed! Lol, I really hope we hold off on the Canton Bust for now. He's just your standard Romo-Cop.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2635475

[dmbmuskie]

Shawne Merriman exposed! Lol, I really hope we hold off on the Canton Bust for now. He's just your standard Romo-Cop.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2635475

We're changing his nick name from "Light's Out" to "Juiced Up".

[Trippin4136]

I can't WAIT to hear Merriman's explanation. I hope its as good as Rafy Palmiero's or Miguel Tejada's

[Tiduwho]

The article said that there's no chance it's any kind of supplement deal, it's definitely full blown steroids.

[thebigv]

A controversy among some of the fans that want to be right so bad that Grossman sucks and Griese should've been the starter maybe, but not the majority, and obviously not in reality, as the Bears Franchise is committed to Rex. Jay Marrioti is not the Bears Franchise, no controversy.


I merely responded to the "Bears are not even close to the top team, actually have a pitiful offense like last year, and the win might as well not count because it "should" have been a loss on a field goal) to a really bad team" sentiment that's been brewing for a while now.

I simply respond with "Hey, well guess what? So has every other team."

By the way, since when do people give me "shit"? What people, you? This is sports chat, about sports teams. Why would I take anything personal? :lol


I agree with you on this. The majority of people realize that Rex is the supposed future in Chicago. While I don't agree with this idea, I certainly don't think Griese is a better answer. This year's NFL season is very interesting in my eyes, even with the Browns having more injuries than what should be plausible (just recently starting CB Baxter out for 12+ months after tearing BOTH patellar tendons), there isn't anyone who's dominate. It wouldn't be as obvious if there weren't so many idiots claiming that Chicago, Pittsburg, Cincy, New England, Carolina, Baltimore, Denver, Ohio State Buckeyes, Oaks Christian High School, or Snoop Dogg's Pop Warner team as the obvious future Super Bowl winner.

Chicago stays healthy on defense, they coast to the NFC Championship game. From there, it depends on how much they use Thomas Jones. Have I just missed the articles where someone points out they need to use the running game more?

Sports chat is meant to be slighted towards one another, although on the internet people take things a little too personal. Such is life.

[Bartender84]

Hasselbeck out for 2-4 weeks after some Vikings dude rolled into his leg. Luckily the only competition we have in the division is the Rams, who have a few tough games ahead of them too. Fuck this sucks, nothing has gone right since the Super Bowl.

[Tiduwho]

Hasselbeck out for 2-4 weeks after some Vikings dude rolled into his leg. Luckily the only competition we have in the division is the Rams, who have a few tough games ahead of them too. Fuck this sucks, nothing has gone right since the Super Bowl.


The Curse lives on...

[dmbmuskie]

There is such parity right now. Outside of Indy and Oakland, I think anyone can win or lose every Sunday.

[Tiduwho]

Why exclude Indy and Oakland? Oakland just won handily, and Indy almost lost to the Jets and Titans, not exactly the most stellar competition out there.

[dmbmuskie]

Why exclude Indy and Oakland? Oakland just won handily, and Indy almost lost to the Jets and Titans, not exactly the most stellar competition out there.

I should have probably thrown in AZ at this point, because I don't see them recovering from their loss to the Bears.

The Colts are getting better every week.

[Tiduwho]

I found a tribute to everyone's favorite Golden Boy! This is for you UNG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

[xBigNastyx]

Hasselbeck out for 2-4 weeks after some Vikings dude rolled into his leg. Luckily the only competition we have in the division is the Rams, who have a few tough games ahead of them too. Fuck this sucks, nothing has gone right since the Super Bowl.

Yeah, everyone is starting to see that Seattle isn't a Superbowl team, and they are very over rated.

[xBigNastyx]

I found a tribute to everyone's favorite Golden Boy! This is for you UNG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ufwukWgKfI

Mature.

[Trippin4136]

Yeah, everyone is starting to see that Seattle isn't a Superbowl team, and they are very over rated.

very easy to be overrated when you are missing your MVP RB and now your all-Pro QB

[Tiduwho]

Mature.

You gotta listen to the lyrics with the pictures. They are witty and well written, not to mention hilarious. :lol

[xBigNastyx]

very easy to be overrated when you are missing your MVP RB and now your all-Pro QB


Alexander is over rated...He had his success because of that line...He sucks at blocking and he sucks at catching the ball out of the backfield. He is not a complete RB, he just happens to be on a team that loves to pad his stats.

And I thought they were over rated LAST YEAR, not just this year, when they marched to the playoffs by having the EASIEST schedule on paper, and then facing a depleted Carolina team. Carolina would have beaten them if they were healthy.

[Trippin4136]

sucks at catching the ball out of the backfield? He's had 3 seasons of 40 catches or more in 6 seasons as the starter, if he sucked at it so much they wouldn't throw him the ball. He's had 1300+ yards in 4 out of 5 seasons as a starter and 1175 in the other. You can say what you want about his line, but a talented back still must be able to do things after he breaks through the line to get that yardage.

[SteelerMan]

I think Alexander is good, not great. I'm curious to see how he does without Steve Hutchinson when 100% healthy.

[xBigNastyx]

sucks at catching the ball out of the backfield? He's had 3 seasons of 40 catches or more in 6 seasons as the starter, if he sucked at it so much they wouldn't throw him the ball. He's had 1300+ yards in 4 out of 5 seasons as a starter and 1175 in the other. You can say what you want about his line, but a talented back still must be able to do things after he breaks through the line to get that yardage.



ooooohhh, for two years he averaged 2-3 catches a game, and in 2004 he had 23 catches, and last year 15...Yeah he's awesome at catching in the backfield! lol...And by the way he still sucks at blocking...


He is a good RB, but not the best like people think...He is one of the best for fantasy, not real life...There are probably 10 RB in real life I'd rather have. IMO Alexander is very over rated, because people think he's the best, but he simply isn't.

[Trippin4136]

ooooohhh, for two years he averaged 2-3 catches a game, and in 2004 he had 23 catches, and last year 15...Yeah he's awesome at catching in the backfield! lol...And by the way he still sucks at blocking...




Tell me in a good offense with a strong running game and good WRs how many catches should an RB have in a game? Ideally no more than 2 or 3 b/c they are suppose to be outlets for the QB. Throwing to your RB shouldn't be a main part of your offense.

[Trippin4136]

He is a good RB, but not the best like people think...He is one of the best for fantasy, not real life...There are probably 10 RB in real life I'd rather have. IMO Alexander is very over rated, because people think he's the best, but he simply isn't.

So he's a great fantasy RB b/c of his numbers but his numbers don't translate into him being a good "Real life" RB? How's that?

[dmbmuskie]

Every back is only as good as his line. Did Edge suddenly become terrible over the summer, or did he make a bad decision based on money?

[xBigNastyx]

So he's a great fantasy RB b/c of his numbers but his numbers don't translate into him being a good "Real life" RB? How's that?


It's quite simple if you use your head.

His stats are padded by his coach...

Alexander will average 1 yd a game for 3 quarters, then break ONE good long run that make his stats look good. It shows up in the box score as 26 runs, 120 yards...Yet 25 of those runs got him 65 yds....

If you put him on the Cards he would be averaging -1 yds a carry instead of Edge's 2-3 yds a carry.

[xBigNastyx]

Tell me in a good offense with a strong running game and good WRs how many catches should an RB have in a game? Ideally no more than 2 or 3 b/c they are suppose to be outlets for the QB. Throwing to your RB shouldn't be a main part of your offense.

The Rams have just as good an offense this year, and Jackson gets more than 1 pass a game.

[dmbmuskie]

It's quite simple if you use your head.

His stats are padded by his coach...

Alexander will average 1 yd a game for 3 quarters, then break ONE good long run that make his stats look good. It shows up in the box score as 26 runs, 120 yards...Yet 25 of those runs got him 65 yds....

If you put him on the Cards he would be averaging -1 yds a carry instead of Edge's 2-3 yds a carry.

That's most backs in the league. There have been very few Jerome Bettis's who will get 3 yards per carry most of the time they touch the ball.

[xBigNastyx]

That's most backs in the league. There have been very few Jerome Bettis's who will get 3 yards per carry most of the time they touch the ball.


If you were a GM and you had to pick a real life back to have on your team, would Alexander be in your top 3 choices?

[dmbmuskie]

If you were a GM and you had to pick a real life back to have on your team, would Alexander be in your top 3 choices?

I'd take him after LT.

What about you?

[GOB_]

Alexander's y/c per quarter:


Year - 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
2000 - 3.6 5.5 6.9 2.6
2001 - 4.4 3.5 5.7 3.4
2002 - 4.0 3.6 5.1 3.0
2003 - 4.8 5.6 3.3 3.7
2004 - 3.7 5.1 4.8 5.6
2005 - 4.5 5.1 6.7 4.3

[xBigNastyx]

I'd take him after LT.

What about you?


LJ is far better than Alexander, and I'd take Portis for real life as well.. I'd also rather have Rudi Johnson, or Steven Jackson.

[xBigNastyx]

Alexander's y/c per quarter:


Year - 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
2000 - 3.6 5.5 6.9 2.6
2001 - 4.4 3.5 5.7 3.4
2002 - 4.0 3.6 5.1 3.0
2003 - 4.8 5.6 3.3 3.7
2004 - 3.7 5.1 4.8 5.6
2005 - 4.5 5.1 6.7 4.3



ok??

[GOB_]

ok??

Well, it doesn't look like he averages a yard per game and then just breaks one to make his stats look good as you said. He's consistently averaged 3 yards or better per quarter up until this year. I don't think he's the best back but I do think he's better than what you give him credit for.

[xBigNastyx]

Well, it doesn't look like he averages a yard per game and then just breaks one to make his stats look good as you said. He's consistently averaged 3 yards or better per quarter up until this year. I don't think he's the best back but I do think he's better than what you give him credit for.


Anyone could tell I am exagerating. Of course he doesn't suck but HE IS over rated. When people say he is the best back out there and that's the general consensus, and the fact that he isnt, means he is over rated. You can still be a goof player and be over rated......I'd put him in my top 8 halfbacks.

The fact that he is EASILY a top 3 pick in fantasy, and I would have trouble picking him for my top 3 in REAL LIFE if i were to start an organization proves he is over rated..

If you put Clinton Portis, LJ, or LT on that Seahawks team last year and they runs for over 2000 yards and score 30 TDs...

[dmbmuskie]

LJ had one good season behind a great offensiver line. I'm not that impressed.

[SteelerMan]

LJ had one good season behind a great offensiver line. I'm not that impressed.

I agree. I'd take Tomlinson first, then I'd probably take Alexander.

[GOB_]

Who said that he was the best and how big of a gap is it between your top three and top eight?

[xBigNastyx]

LJ is a better all around back than Alexander..LJ knows how to block, he can catch passes, he can pick up blitzes, some things Alexander needs to learn how to do...Being a RB isn't just about being handed a ball and running it in...And that's pretty much all Alexander can do.

[xBigNastyx]

Who said that he was the best and how big of a gap is it between your top three and top eight?

Nm yall are completely misinterpreting what I am saying...The fact that he is an EASY top 2-3 pick in fantasy (by me as well) and that he would NOT be in my top 3 choices for REAL life means that he is over rated in real life IMO. He is more valuable for fantasy because he gets padded stats, but when it comes to being an all around back (things that don't help you in fantasy) he isn't as good as alot of backs who are drafted later in fantasy than he is.

Does that make sense

[GOB_]

LJ is a better all around back than Alexander..LJ knows how to block, he can catch passes, he can pick up blitzes, some things Alexander needs to learn how to do...Being a RB isn't just about being handed a ball and running it in...And that's pretty much all Alexander can do.

I don't know about blocking and picking up blitzes because I don't watch that many Seahawk games but Alexander has averaged ~27 catches per year while LJ has averaged ~26.

[xBigNastyx]

I don't know about blocking and picking up blitzes because I don't watch that many Seahawk games but Alexander has averaged ~27 catches per year while LJ has averaged ~26.

When did LJ start until the second half of last year and then this year? How many catches is LJ getting this year?

K then.

[dmbmuskie]

Seattle has much better recievers than KC, so he's a more desirebale target.

[GOB_]

When did LJ start until the second half of last year and then this year? How many catches is LJ getting this year?

K then.

K? Why do you take everything so personal? Alexander proved that he can catch 40+ balls a year as trippin already pointed out. In fact, he caught 59 in one year. You can't fault the guy because balls aren't thrown his way or because the team has a different approach to running their offense. Speaking of lines, Kansas City has had a pretty decent line over the last few years, too.

Anyway, there's one thing I don't like about Alexander and that was the shit fit he threw about missing the rushing title.

[clayj41]

This is the most amped I've been for a Monday night game this year!!! Can't ask for anything much better than a division showdown between the Giants and Cowboys...

[DMBfan41]

TOUCHDOWN!!!

When Plax plays, he knows how to deliver!

[clayj41]

TOUCHDOWN!!!

When Plax plays, he knows how to deliver!

Yeah, that ref is the best player on the Giants!:D Williams probably wouldn't have had a play on the ball anyways.

[clayj41]

Romo with an interception as soon as he enters the game!:lol

[DMBfan41]

Arrington is out for the season??

FUCK!

[Tiduwho]

Romo >>> Mike Vick?


Haha, the kid can scramble. And pass too.

[DMBfan41]

6 sacks, 3 INT's.

Loving this D, We Ballin'!

[Tiduwho]

Romo >>> Mike Vick?


Haha, the kid can scramble. And pass too.

And throw INTs just like Drew, so what's not to like?

[xBigNastyx]

And throw INTs just like Drew, so what's not to like?

He's a rookie.

[Trippin4136]

He's a rookie.

Actually its his 4th season. This was just his first real live action in a game.

Second, I think you have a tough deciphering between fantasy football and football. You seem to back all your argument on his fantasy stats v. his real stats. Just b/c you may be good at fantasy, does not mean you have a real perspective for a guy's talent.

You knock his receiving numbers but you have no real grasp on how large his receiving is tied into the offense, it may not be tied in at all. How many times did you ever see Jerome Bettis catching the ball? Would you call him a bad receiver?

Yes, a great O-line helps a RB, they go hand-in-hand, but the fact that you call a guy who routine rushes for 1,100 yards or much more every year since being a starter, and the MVP overrated speaks volumes to me about your grasp on "real" football.

[Trippin4136]

When did LJ start until the second half of last year and then this year? How many catches is LJ getting this year?

K then.

Larry Johnson is 2nd on his team in receptions on a team without it's #1 and a reliable receiving corps. He is their 2nd (or 1st to many) offensive weapon. It shouldn't be surprising with Damon Huard out there that he's using LJ as an emergency target a lot which boosts his receiving numbers.

[dmbmuskie]

In all seriousness fantasy football is ruining people's view of football.

[thebigv]

In real football today, Cleveland may have taken the next step in getting their offense on track. Carthon quit/got canned by close friend Crennel. His playcalling was atrocious.

Jason,

I have a few buddies that are as into fantasy football as I am, and we have to specify if we're speaking about real football or fantasy football when we get into conversations. It's pretty humorous where things have gone lately.

[SteelerMan]

I have a few buddies that are as into fantasy football as I am, and we have to specify if we're speaking about real football or fantasy football when we get into conversations. It's pretty humorous where things have gone lately.

I know what you mean. At one point, Bernard Berrian was the #1 fantasy receiver. Perhaps I'll be wrong one day, but I highly doubt he's the best receiver in the NFL.

[dmbmuskie]

The thing I really hate about fantasy football, is that it reduces a game to stats, where the stats just are not that important. My second pet peeve iss being at a bar watching games, and some guy a table over is rooting for someone in every game going on with his laptop fired up.

[SteelerMan]

The thing I really hate about fantasy football, is that it reduces a game to stats, where the stats just are not that important. My second pet peeve iss being at a bar watching games, and some guy a table over is rooting for someone in every game going on with his laptop fired up.

What bothers me the most is watching the game with a Steelers fan who is saying something like "Well, of course I want the Steelers to win, but I wouldn't mind if Larry Johnson had 150 yards and 2 TD's". Yes, I play fantasy football, but when the Steelers are involved, fantasy football is forgotten. I'll NEVER root for a player to do well against my team.

[Tiduwho]

He's a rookie.


By your logic, so is Rex Grossman.

[xBigNastyx]

By your logic, so is Rex Grossman.

Romo hasnt played yet really..so you're wrong.


What the fuck is your deal? You are always looking to start something man, chill out.

EDIT: I'm just gonna block you, so I don't have to deal with you anymore.

[xBigNastyx]

In all seriousness fantasy football is ruining people's view of football.

I agree.

Shaun Alexander wouldnt be considered the best if fantasy football didn't exist.

[Tiduwho]

Romo hasnt played yet really..so you're wrong.


What the fuck is your deal? You are always looking to start something man, chill out.

EDIT: I'm just gonna block you, so I don't have to deal with you anymore.


Well, considering I made a lighthearted joke about the qb change and you started in on me (wrongly not to mention), I think you might have started it. But hey, who's counting?

[Dougie981641]

In all seriousness fantasy football is ruining people's view of football.
Can I get an AMEN

[bradshaw06]

Can I get an AMEN

Amen..

[xBigNastyx]

Well, considering I made a lighthearted joke about the qb change and you started in on me (wrongly not to mention), I think you might have started it. But hey, who's counting?


I said 'he's a rookie, so just give him a break" in a lighthearted tone.
That isn't starting anything or saying anything out of line or whatever. Nice try though.

And I replied to the topic, you went off topic by bringing up Grossman, just to start something with me. But hey blah blah blah who's counting

[Dougie981641]

Thank you

[dmbhoosier21]

Any Denver fans that can inform me about the Broncos?

-Obviously has a good D considering they have given up only 2 TDs; what makes them good? D-line's pressure on QB, LBs, secondary etc.....

-Going to be interesting to see Indy offense against the Denver defense

-Apparently Den. lost it's LT which isnt good news considering Freeney at DE. Though he doesn't have a sack, he is still putting pressure on QBs so definitely not good news for J. Plummer

Don't really know much about Denver other than they must have a very good defense based on TDs given up, they are having trouble in the passing game with Jake Plummer as the QB and T.Bell is running the ball well

[dmbmuskie]

It's such bullshit that Merriman gets to play while he appeals.

[Trippin4136]

I agree.

Shaun Alexander wouldnt be considered the best if fantasy football didn't exist.

what kind of logic is that? Analysts, commentators, coaches, sports writers don't pay attention to fantasy when deciding who they think is the best. They go by what they see in game film not how many fantasy points he gets.

[Trippin4136]

It's such bullshit that Merriman gets to play while he appeals.

I agree. Playing while appealing a fine for a hit on another player is one thing. If you get busted for roids your ass should be out. Period. If you choose to appeal and miss possibly more games that's your problem.

[xBigNastyx]

what kind of logic is that? Analysts, commentators, coaches, sports writers don't pay attention to fantasy when deciding who they think is the best. They go by what they see in game film not how many fantasy points he gets.


I probably didn't explain my opinion very well then, cause I see what you are saying, and I agree. My point about Alexander is he gets terrific stats and stuff and leads in TDs, but IMO, he isn't the best all around back.. He is the best RB if you just look at statistics though..That was my point, I just used fantasy as an example.

[xBigNastyx]

I agree. Playing while appealing a fine for a hit on another player is one thing. If you get busted for roids your ass should be out. Period. If you choose to appeal and miss possibly more games that's your problem.


I agree that is is BS that he is allowed to play. I think that if you get busted for roids you shouldn't be allowed to appeal.

[Dougie981641]

I agree. Playing while appealing a fine for a hit on another player is one thing. If you get busted for roids your ass should be out. Period. If you choose to appeal and miss possibly more games that's your problem.
No doubt about it

[UNC41]

Top 5

1. Chicago
2. Indy
3. Denver
4. New England
5. NY Giants

[dmbmuskie]

I agree. Playing while appealing a fine for a hit on another player is one thing. If you get busted for roids your ass should be out. Period. If you choose to appeal and miss possibly more games that's your problem.

There's no way he's going to get this over turned if it really was norbolethone. That's straight out of the BALCO controversy, and it's not in any supplement.

[Tiduwho]

Top 5

1. Chicago
2. Indy
3. Denver
4. New England
5. NY Giants

Exact same for me.

[DMBfan41]

Im just worried about the injuries for big blue right now.

Losing LaVar sucks big time. Umeniyora is hurt and questionable for next week.

But, hey, in awesome news. I'm happy to hear the Bears-Giants game is gonna be the Sunday Night Game!

[Tiduwho]

But, hey, in awesome news. I'm happy to hear the Bears-Giants game is gonna be the Sunday Night Game!

Indeed, gonna be great. :monkey

[xBigNastyx]

Question, what's the deal with the NBC/Fox and switching games or something? Could someone explain that?

[DMBfan41]

Starting in Week 10 i believe it is, NBC gets to pick a game from FOX/CBS that they think will get the highest ratings.

So, FOX or CBS loses that game and they most likely have to change some other games time.

I think its the New Orleans game that week

[Trippin4136]

Starting in Week 10 i believe it is, NBC gets to pick a game from FOX/CBS that they think will get the highest ratings.

So, FOX or CBS loses that game and they most likely have to change some other games time.

I think its the New Orleans game that week

yep...NBC took the Giants/Bears from FOX to put on SNF and New Orleans/Pittsburgh is now the 4 o'clock FOX game

[Tiduwho]

Bears 24 to 0, still the first quarter. I'm sure it doesn't count because it's the 49ers, but I'm still excited.

:multi


Urlacher is amazing. I can't believe players still think he's the most overrated after TO. How can you say that after he makes an Interception like that?

[luke7]

Watching the Bengals vs Falcons game. Funny everytime I flip to the Eagles vs Jags game during a break, the Eagles never have the ball.

[UCFish]

Ocho Cinco!!

[Trippin4136]

Ocho Cinco!!

He had a jersey on in warm ups that said Ocho Cinco instead of Johnson

[Trippin4136]

can we get a mercy rule in the Bears-49ers game? 41-0 at halftime? Goodness.

[UCFish]

He had a jersey on in warm ups that said Ocho Cinco instead of Johnson

That is great. Yeah I wish they would just call the Bears game. Although I do wanna see just how many points my boys can score. Although it is going to be tough to get a shutout since you have to figure the defensive starters won't be in their for long.

[Tiduwho]

I'm sure the 49ers were praying for that wind again from last year, you couldn't even pass the ball in that game.

[luke7]

Falcons vs Bengals very entertaining game.

[clayj41]

Falcons vs Bengals very entertaining game.

I was supposed to go to that game...:(

[Tiduwho]

No football talk on a Sunday? Was the President shot or something?


Colts/Broncos is looking pretty good. Denver's really forcing Indy to play their style of game.

[dmbhoosier21]

No football talk on a Sunday? Was the President shot or something?


Colts/Broncos is looking pretty good. Denver's really forcing Indy to play their style of game.

Red zone offense and the penalties have been the difference so far.....oh and Plummer is playing like an all-pro - fuckin' bootleg :BANG

[xBigNastyx]

Steelers are lookin good so far against Oakland. :lol

[Tiduwho]

Peyton Manning is amazing. I am in awe.

[clayj41]

Peyton Manning is amazing. I am in awe.

:thumbsup I'm not a Colts fan, but he is an unbelievable player.

[Trippin4136]

that audible he called leading to the Wayne TD pass was simply incredible and then again on the 2 PAT...masterful

[clayj41]

Time for Peyton to march down the field again and win the game...

[Trippin4136]

at this point, i expect nothing less

[clayj41]

That'll do it....Colts 7-0.

[xBigNastyx]

And Pittsburgh loses to......Oakland?


:lol :lol

[Tak_a_Tak]

That'll do it....Colts 7-0.

Man, that was a great game! Another Colts game down to the wire.

[SteelerMan]

That was one of the most embarassing losses ever. The defense played a great game. They only gave up 98 total yards and six points (which resulted from bad penalties rather than the Raiders moving the ball). The offense gave the game away... Roethlisberger didn't belong on the field today, and I really think he should've been pulled after the second pick. I'm pretty sure anyone watching could tell he just didn't look right.

I'm not ready to give up on this team yet. As long as the defense doesn't quit on us, we have a chance to win every game on the schedule. The offense just needs to get it together.

[dmbmuskie]

And Pittsburgh loses to......Oakland?


:lol :lol

This season has just turned into a joke. I didn't think they would win today, and they did not disappoint.

[luke7]

Cowboys still aren't going anywhere.

[luke7]

ESPN wants Dallas to be good so bad. Makes me sick. They act like Romo is Troy Aikman.

[Trippin4136]

ESPN wants Dallas to be good so bad. Makes me sick. They act like Romo is Troy Aikman.

no shit. I don't understand the obsession with the Cowboys. I understand they are the Cowboys, but I think it goes back to TO. If TO wasn't there, the Cowboys would just be another 4-3 team that made a QB switch.

That was an impressive win in Carolina last night, no question, but the unfettered slurping of Dallas is simply ridiculous. They are still essentially 2 games back in the division with 2 more road games before they sniff Texas Stadium again.

[Trippin4136]

This season has just turned into a joke. I didn't think they would win today, and they did not disappoint.

To give up only 98 total yards and lose is humiliating and that game is no one's fault except Roethlisberger. 4 INTs and 2 pick 6s CANNOT happen at anytime. 2-5 and last place in the division? Good riddance to the Steelers.

And for the record, I CAN'T stand Jerome Bettis as a commentator.

[DMBfan41]

G-Units baby!

5-2, keep on rollin

[xBigNastyx]

ESPN wants Dallas to be good so bad. Makes me sick. They act like Romo is Troy Aikman.

Troy Aikman was/is over rated.

[Trippin4136]

Troy Aikman was/is over rated.

depends on how you rate him.

I say he was a great QB, not on my first 10 All-Time teams, but definitely one that will be remembered. He didn't put up eye popping career numbers, but being the center of a dynasty is something he'll always be remembered for.

But, he really didn't stand a chance to rack numbers like the all-time greats b/c he had Emmitt Smith behind him.

[xBigNastyx]

depends on how you rate him.

I say he was a great QB, not on my first 10 All-Time teams, but definitely one that will be remembered. He didn't put up eye popping career numbers, but being the center of a dynasty is something he'll always be remembered for.

But, he really didn't stand a chance to rack numbers like the all-time greats b/c he had Emmitt Smith behind him.


I coulda been QB for that STACKED team with that BADASS O-LINE they had. To me Aikman is only talked about as being a great QB because of the rings he won. And IMO, he is not even close to being a reason why they won those rings. They coulda plugged in anyone as QB and won those rings, that's how good they were. If Aikman were on another team and didn't win a ring, no one would give a damn about him or even remember him.

Just my opinion...

[Trippin4136]

I agree that their offense was stacked with talent at every position. But, it still takes a good QB to grease the wheels and he did that very effectively. Which is why, again, I consider him a great QB but not an all-time great.

[dmbmuskie]

Saying Aikman isn't great is ridiculous. Sure, he's no Marino or Elway, but he could really play football.

[UNC41]

I coulda been QB for that STACKED team with that BADASS O-LINE they had. To me Aikman is only talked about as being a great QB because of the rings he won. And IMO, he is not even close to being a reason why they won those rings. They coulda plugged in anyone as QB and won those rings, that's how good they were. If Aikman were on another team and didn't win a ring, no one would give a damn about him or even remember him.

Just my opinion...

You could insert Tom Brady for the bolded word and that sentence would be just as true.

[xBigNastyx]

You could insert Tom Brady for the bolded word and that sentence would be just as true.

Yeah cause Brady has the offensive weapons that Aikman had....Hahahahahah yeah right.


Aikman's career rating - 81
Brady - 88

[UNC41]

Yeah cause Brady has the offensive weapons that Aikman had....Hahahahahah yeah right.


Aikman's career rating - 81
Brady - 88

If Brady didn't have three Super Bowl rings right now no one would have ever suggested he's a better QB than Manning over the past couple years. He'd be considered on a Hasselbeck/Bulger level.

[Trippin4136]

If Brady didn't have three Super Bowl rings right now no one would have ever suggested he's a better QB than Manning over the past couple years. He'd be considered on a Hasselbeck/Bulger level.

that's probably true. Rings define a career.

As for a true QB, I would never put Brady ahead of Manning. How manning commands and has mastered the position is something unbelievable to witness.

[SteelerMan]

that's probably true. Rings define a career.

As for a true QB, I would never put Brady ahead of Manning. How manning commands and has mastered the position is something unbelievable to witness.

:thumbsup

And I'm not sure by what standards people are going by in saying Aikman is overrated. I've heard several writers and analysts say he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame (which I think is ridiculous), so I'm not sure how you can say he's overrated when people are saying things like that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say he's in the same class as Marino, Montana, or Elway.

[Trippin4136]

:thumbsup

And I'm not sure by what standards people are going by in saying Aikman is overrated. I've heard several writers and analysts say he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame (which I think is ridiculous), so I'm not sure how you can say he's overrated when people are saying things like that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say he's in the same class as Marino, Montana, or Elway.

the whole argument of "who he is around him" is complete crap. Joe Montana had Jerry Rice, Roger Craig, Brent Jones/Dwight Clark and John Taylor (the last two certainly comparable to Alvin Harper & Novacek) and you don't see anyone use the excuse "look who he's got around him" with Montana.

Maybe people should recognize that the QB makes the players better? (Rice the exception).

[UNC41]

There are few QBs who are going to be remembered as all-time greats without winning a ring. Marino is the last one who retired. Manning will be if he never wins one. I think Favre would have gone down like this without a title.

[SteelerMan]

Good point. To me, leaving out Aikman would be like leaving out Bradshaw. No, neither of them had mind blowing stats, and they were both surrounded by great players, but how can you leave out someone who was that successful? I'd say Bradshaw is better than Aikman (I am very biased, of course), but they're both very deserving.

[xBigNastyx]

If Brady didn't have three Super Bowl rings right now no one would have ever suggested he's a better QB than Manning over the past couple years. He'd be considered on a Hasselbeck/Bulger level.


Maybe so, but that is even better than Aikman.

[Trippin4136]

When Manning audibled before throwing that perfect TD pass to Wayne late in the game yesterday and then again audibled and perfectly executed the 2 PAT it reaffirmed my believe that he is the master at the QB position.

Seriously, every time I watch the Colts play its as if his audibles seemingly never fail.

[Trippin4136]

Maybe so, but that is even better than Aikman.

Marc Bulger is better than Troy Aikman? Come on man. That is ridiculous. It appears as if Aikman is just another sports figure you love to hate.

[xBigNastyx]

:thumbsup

And I'm not sure by what standards people are going by in saying Aikman is overrated. I've heard several writers and analysts say he shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame (which I think is ridiculous), so I'm not sure how you can say he's overrated when people are saying things like that. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say he's in the same class as Marino, Montana, or Elway.

How is saying he doesn't belong in the HoF ridiculous?

He was an average QB.

81 rating
165 td
141 int

Threw for 20 td ONCE. For every TD he threw he basically threw an INT as well.

By the way, Elway shouldn't be in the same sentence as Marino or Montana.

[Trippin4136]

Elway shouldn't be in the same sentence as Mariano or Montana?

The guy was only top 5 in completions, yards, TDs and attempts....

[xBigNastyx]

Marc Bulger is better than Troy Aikman? Come on man. That is ridiculous. It appears as if Aikman is just another sports figure you love to hate.


No, I just can't stand him as a commentator and how all the other announcers suck him off as being one of the greats. And a lot of people think he was a great QB and he simply wasn't. The stats prove it.


You don't evaluate how good a player is based only on rings. Rings have more to do with surrounding cast.

[xBigNastyx]

Elway shouldn't be in the same sentence as Mariano or Montana?

The guy was only top 5 in completions, yards, TDs and attempts....

He also had one of the longest careers as a QB. I'm not saying he wasn't good. But Marino, Montana are on their own level.

[UNC41]

When Manning audibled before throwing that perfect TD pass to Wayne late in the game yesterday and then again audibled and perfectly executed the 2 PAT it reaffirmed my believe that he is the master at the QB position.

Seriously, every time I watch the Colts play its as if his audibles seemingly never fail.

There is no argument you could come up with to make me believe Manning isn't the best QB in the NFL and will probably go down as the best ever to play the position.

[Trippin4136]

No, I just can't stand him as a commentator and how all the other announcers suck him off as being one of the greats. And a lot of people think he was a great QB and he simply wasn't. The stats prove it.


You don't evaluate how good a player is based only on rings. Rings have more to do with surrounding cast.

well if its not the rings, then what the hell makes Tom Brady so great - as a current day example? Because there are a few current QBs and recent QBs that impressed me a hell of a lot more from a sheer talent and command position than Brady.

[Trippin4136]

He also had one of the longest careers as a QB. I'm not saying he wasn't good. But Marino, Montana are on their own level.

Marino, Montana and Elway were all in the league for 15 seasons.

[xBigNastyx]

Elway average season - 19 td, 14 int

Montana - 20 td, 10 int

Marino - 25 td, 14 int

Brady - 25 td, 13 int

Aikman - 12 td, 11 int



hmm

[GavMan33]

UNG-once again, I miss you man.

First, I'm a Bills fan. So Aikman (or rather the Cowboys as a whole) is on par with say a Reggie Miller to me (but that's a discussion for another time). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Aikman was the QB of some 2-14, 3-13 Cowboys teams. So to go from that, to winning 3 Super Bowls in 4 years is definitely impressive. Now I did see the stats, 165 TDs vs. 141 INTs. Not fantastic by any means. I assume because it's you, that we're trying to compare Brady vs. Aikman. I'm not into comparing from different eras, personally. You can compare Marino vs. Elway vs. Montana, because they all played around the same time. Brady is different, different brand of football. Now, let me throw this out there. Jim Kelly is in the Hall of Fame, it's the only ceremony I've ever watched straight through. It was so cool to watch. So, Kelly doesn't have any rings. So how does he command respect?

[SteelerMan]

"Average season" isn't really a good way to compare... in Aikman's first two seasons, he had 20 TD's and 36 INT's. Part of the reason his numbers aren't great is because he started immediately as a rookie on a terrible team.

[dmbmuskie]

He also had one of the longest careers as a QB. I'm not saying he wasn't good. But Marino, Montana are on their own level.

I think Elway is the best ever.

[dmbmuskie]

QB rating is a terrible way to evaluate QBs from the past to the present. The game is totally different. The popularity of the short passing game and throwing in the red zone makes any comparissons worthless.

[dmbmuskie]

There is no argument you could come up with to make me believe Manning isn't the best QB in the NFL and will probably go down as the best ever to play the position.

He's never won a Super Bowl. If he wins just one I think you could be right, but until then he's 2nd tier.

[SteelerMan]

He's never won a Super Bowl. If he wins just one I think you could be right, but until then he's 2nd tier.

I'd have to disagree. Even if he never wins one, I think he'll be considered this generation's version of Marino, which would make him one of the all-time greatest. I think he'll win at least one before his career is over though.

[Trippin4136]

He's never won a Super Bowl. If he wins just one I think you could be right, but until then he's 2nd tier.

Dan Marino is 2nd tier? I don't think so.

Manning will be one of the best ever, if not THE best, b/c he simply dominates his position in ways that few, if no one, ever did before him.

[xBigNastyx]

Dan Marino is 2nd tier? I don't think so.

Manning will be one of the best ever, if not THE best, b/c he simply dominates his position in ways that few, if no one, ever did before him.


Exactly, which is why you don't judge single players' talent based on how many rings they have.

[Trippin4136]

Exactly, which is why you don't judge single players' talent based on how many rings they have.

you're right, but that being said, Aikman still was a great QB based on talent alone. You can look at stats all you want, but watching him tear through the Giants and the NFC East every year of the 90s with relative ease was very impressive.

And Brady shouldn't be judged on his rings alone. His technical abilites at QB, to me, leave much to be desired.

[xBigNastyx]

you're right, but that being said, Aikman still was a great QB based on talent alone. You can look at stats all you want, but watching him tear through the Giants and the NFC East every year of the 90s with relative ease was very impressive.

And Brady shouldn't be judged on his rings alone. His technical abilites at QB, to me, leave much to be desired.


:lol

Yeah an average of 25 td, 13 int a year isn't very good lol.

:lol

When all said and done, Brady will easily be looked at as the better QB between he and Aikman, and if he stays on this pace, he'll be better than Elway IMO.


Marino, Montana, Manning will be considered the greatest of all time IMO.

[Trippin4136]

When I watch Brady, I don't think I'm watching one of the best QB ever. I don't. He's won rings, I give him all the credit for doing something only 3 other guys have ever done.

When I watch Peyton Manning I'm in awe at what he can do from the moment he steps behind center until the ball is out of his hand. When I watch Brady, I never get that. I'm probably in the greater minority in that, but it's how I feel.

And for his INT ratio...2 to 1 doesn't really impress me all that much. 2 to 1 is what any QB should be doing at the LEAST in order to be an All-Pro. Over the last 3 years, Manning is at nearly 4 to 1. And this year he's at 8 to 1.

[SteelerMan]

While I definitely think Manning is the better QB, if my team is running a two minute drill with the game on the line, I think I'd rather have Brady out there than Manning. If I had to choose one QB to build a team around though, I'd take Manning.

[Trippin4136]

thats just a differing of opinions.

What I saw last night v. Denver screams differently

[SteelerMan]

thats just a differing of opinions.

What I saw last night v. Denver screams differently

True, but until Manning performs well in the clutch on a more consistent basis, I've got to take Brady over him in those situations. Yesterday was certainly a step in the right direction though.

[dmbmuskie]

When I say second tier I mean right below Elway and Montana. They're blend of individual and team success is unparalleled.

[xBigNastyx]

When I watch Brady, I don't think I'm watching one of the best QB ever. I don't. He's won rings, I give him all the credit for doing something only 3 other guys have ever done.

When I watch Peyton Manning I'm in awe at what he can do from the moment he steps behind center until the ball is out of his hand. When I watch Brady, I never get that. I'm probably in the greater minority in that, but it's how I feel.

And for his INT ratio...2 to 1 doesn't really impress me all that much. 2 to 1 is what any QB should be doing at the LEAST in order to be an All-Pro. Over the last 3 years, Manning is at nearly 4 to 1. And this year he's at 8 to 1.

Which is why Aikman is over rated since he is about 1 to 1.

[Trippin4136]

Which is why Aikman is over rated since he is about 1 to 1.

I've said repeatedly that I think he was a great QB but not one of the best of all-time.

[xBigNastyx]

I've said repeatedly that I think he was a great QB but not one of the best of all-time.


Then why have you been trying to argue with me and dismiss my opinion? All I said to begin with was Aikman was over rated. You all tried to dispute that with me. He was a solid QB, but a lot of people wrongfully think he was a great QB, and that is completely false.

Plus, he is a dumbass who doesn't belong announcing NFL games.

Alex Smith could have done what Aikman did with the Cowboys...

[Trippin4136]

the focus of my comments had moved away from Aikman.

And here we go, you say that Alex Smith could have done what Aikman did. If there is ever a sport of someone being a product of their system, it's football. One can just as easily say any other QB could have filled in Brady's spot and be just as effective. Brady could have been the Titans and done jack shit with his career. Who knows.

[xBigNastyx]

the focus of my comments had moved away from Aikman.

And here we go, you say that Alex Smith could have done what Aikman did. If there is ever a sport of someone being a product of their system, it's football. One can just as easily say any other QB could have filled in Brady's spot and be just as effective. Brady could have been the Titans and done jack shit with his career. Who knows.

Fair enough. But Brady hasn't been blessed with having fantastic weapons on offense. He didn't have a good running game until a co uple years ago when Dillon came, he's never had a top of the line reciever. Branch was good, but not top tier...

So the arguement that anyone could do what Brady does for the Pats with their weaponsdoesn't make sense, since they never had any explosive offensive weapons like Aikman...

The difference is Aikman was surrounded by Hall of Fame shoe-ins on offense....Brady hasn't been, except Dillon.

[Trippin4136]

Yea and Bill Parcells took the Giants to two SBs with Phil Simms who no one would regard as an all-time great with WRs like Stephen Baker and Mark Ingram.

Football is about the systems and the coaching and if one can get the right parts to excel at that system. Belichick has harnassed a masterful system and that has led to multiple titles. And while I appreciate Brady's ability to steer it, I lay most of the credit at Belichick's feet.

In some cases, you get teams that are top to bottom overloaded with talent that just win ala the Cowboys or great coaching and systematic approaches that excel like the Patriots and like Bill Walsh's 49ers.

[dmbmuskie]

The difference is Aikman was surrounded by Hall of Fame shoe-ins on offense....Brady hasn't been, except Dillon.

The only shoe in of the bunch was Emmit.

[Trippin4136]

Corey Dillon is a "shoe-in" Hall of Famer? You are the first person I've ever heard say that.

[dmbmuskie]

Corey Dillon is a "shoe-in" Hall of Famer? You are the first person I've ever heard say that.

The NFL Hall of Fame is way to leinant for enshrinement. He's not a shoe in, but I wouldn't be surprised if he made it.

How Dermontti Dawson didn't go in on the first ballot is beyond me. The best player of his era at that position should be a shoe in.

[dmbhoosier21]

Yea and Bill Parcells took the Giants to two SBs with Phil Simms who no one would regard as an all-time great with WRs like Stephen Baker and Mark Ingram.

Football is about the systems and the coaching and if one can get the right parts to excel at that system. Belichick has harnassed a masterful system and that has led to multiple titles. And while I appreciate Brady's ability to steer it, I lay most of the credit at Belichick's feet.

In some cases, you get teams that are top to bottom overloaded with talent that just win ala the Cowboys or great coaching and systematic approaches that excel like the Patriots and like Bill Walsh's 49ers.

Agreed 100%. The niners of the 80s, 90s and up until Jeff Garcia era is a great example. Jeff Garcia looked like a hall of famer with his early years for SF, was his talent hall of fame material.....easy answer is no - he was a product of the system. Not saying Joe Montana (one of the greatest obviously) or Steve Young were mere products of the systems - they were both obviously great, but their success was undoubtedly tied to the west-coast sytem of Bill Walsh - similar to what Brady did at NE

Not taking away from Brady. Great clutch QB and field general - w/o a doubt. He deserved all those superbowls, but I agree, Belichick got the "perfect" QB for his system.

Actually I agree with every damn part of the above post and not just the bolded part - great post.

[Trippin4136]

the only RBs from this generation I see as shoe ins....

Emmitt
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis

that's it.

[Trippin4136]

Actually I agree with every damn part of the above post and not just the bolded part - great post.

why thank you

[dmbmuskie]

the only RBs from this generation I see as shoe ins....

Emmitt
Marshall Faulk
Curtis Martin
Jerome Bettis

that's it.

That would be my list of the only guys who should go in. I think an argument against Bettis can me made.

[dmbhoosier21]

why thank you

I only call it as I see it.

I think some NE fans might take offense to the above argument but it really isnt a knock against Brady, it's more of a praise for the entire organization of the Pats (specifically Belichick)

Also it's not like any QB could have stepped in and done what Brady did - Brady is definitely a future hall of famer

[dmbmuskie]

Brady and Manning are in a class all by themselves. Manning has more talent, where Brady has more poise. They both have plenty of both.

Bengals fans want to put Palmer in there, but when you watch the way he handles himself it's just sad. I'm amazed no one has ever thrown a punch at him when he starts berating people after a play.

[dmbhoosier21]

Brady and Manning are in a class all by themselves. Manning has more talent, where Brady has more poise. They both have plenty of both.

Bengals fans want to put Palmer in there, but when you watch the way he handles himself it's just sad. I'm amazed no one has ever thrown a punch at him when he starts berating people after a play.

Right now - hell no

Potentially - maybe

[dmbhoosier21]

Look what I just found


Sports Illustrated's player poll on the most overrated player (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/players/10/24/poll.1024/index.html) in the NFL has touched off controversy around the country -- especially in Dallas and Chicago. Terrell Owens topped the poll of 361 players, and Brian Urlacher was second. Ray Lewis, Michael Vick, Eli Manning, Keyshawn Johnson and Peyton Manning round out the top seven.

I would add Tom Brady to the list.

If the Patriots hadn't drafted Brady, there's no way he'd be compared to Joe Montana and Johnnie Unitas. Would Brady be a Pro Bowler? Probably. He obviously has a ton of talent, but his elevated status has a lot to do with the incredible Patriots' system. It's no mistake the Patriots ran out as a team before they beat the Rams in Super Bowl XXXVI. If ever there was a whole bigger than it's parts, it's this team.

Nevertheless, the world has anointed Brady the unquestioned King of the NFL.

I have always thought people overrate players who win championships in every sport. If Derek Jeter is the greatest shortstop of his era because of his rings, does that make Luis Sojo the top second baseman? Same goes for the Patriots. Is Matt Light the greatest tackle of the 2000s because New England won three Super Bowls?

Before you angrily respond, remember this is about perception. I'm not saying Brady isn't a great quarterback. I'm saying the hype has gone too far.

With that, my pick for tonight: Tom Brady leads the Pats to a hard-fought 21-19 win over a revved-up Vikings squad. Hey, I said he's overrated. I didn't say I was betting against him in a close game.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/si_blogs/nfl/huddle_up/2006/2006/10/is-brady-overrated.html

[xBigNastyx]

:lol

[xBigNastyx]

Big Ben used to be over rated.

Vick is the most over rated ever. (yes I know about his previous two games)


Basically, I agree with everyone on that list except Urlacher, and Peyton.

[SteelerMan]

Hmmm... do NFL players know something about Urlacher that we don't? There has to be a reason that so many people voted for him.

[xBigNastyx]

Well IMO, you can be one of the best and still be over rated. You can be very very good and be over rated. I guess it would be that most people rate Urlacher as being God or something, and he simply isn't....I dono.

[Tiduwho]

Hmmm... do NFL players know something about Urlacher that we don't? There has to be a reason that so many people voted for him.

The same reasons they voted for Ray Lewis and Peyton Manning, anger/frustration born from envy of their many accolades.



Did TO ever address this? It seems like everyone's been focusing on Urlacher's name mention, but nothing of TO or Ray Lewis for that matter.

[RJ2kWJ]

Anyone watch that first drive? You can easily argue Tom vs. Peyton. I notice people say that watching Peyton is "absolutely amazing because of how he runs the offense"... but you can say the same thing for Tom, especially after that drive I just saw. Holy hell he's amazing. They both are.

[UNC41]

Brady has been very good tonight. New England's game plan was even better.

The officiating in this game has been horrible. That challenge was atrocious. There has also been a very bad offensive pass interference, defensive pass interference and intentional grounding calls that favored the Pats. As I'm typing this Dillon should have gotten an unsportsmanlike call.

[UNC41]

FYI, I didn't mean for the last post to come off as blaming the officials for this loss. I'm not a Vikings fan, and the Pats have both outplayed and outcoached Minnesota tonight. I'll also use this to update the above post. Add another very after Brady and the illegal contact call to the last paragraph.

[UNC41]

The Pats might be the best team in the NFL.

[luke7]

The Pats might be the best team in the NFL.

I wouldn't say that but anyone who thinks Brady can't throw the ball and isn't one of the best ( the best IMO ) QB in the NFL is kidding themselves.

[xBigNastyx]

So how many points did Minnesota's defense get??? 6? K then....


I loved every bit of this game.

[UNC41]

So how many points did Minnesota's defense get??? 6? K then....


I loved every bit of this game.

9 in one of my leagues and 11 in the other.

[xBigNastyx]

9 in one of my leagues and 11 in the other.

In other words, not very many.

[UCFish]

The entire poll of overated players is stupid. I just see this as a complete jelousy thing.

[UNC41]

In other words, not very many.

Considering 6 teams are averaging more than 9 in the league the score 9 in and three are averaging more than 11 (with one at exactly 11) in the league where they scored 11, it's a pretty solid total.

[xBigNastyx]

Considering 6 teams are averaging more than 9 in the league the score 9 in and three are averaging more than 11 (with one at exactly 11) in the league where they scored 11, it's a pretty solid total.

You must count special teams TDs, return yards then....Which is stupid IMO since it has nothing to do with defense.

We don't in my league...As a straight up defense they got 6 points in my default scoring league where points allowed, sacks, int, fumble recovery, safety, block kicks, td are the stats.


And 6 points aint so hot. The Pats made their defense look silly.


Where are all the people that said the Pats arent that great this year and that their recievers just aren't any good and can't get the job done?

[xBigNastyx]

23 teams are averaging more than 6 fantasy points on defense in my league.

[UNC41]

You must count special teams TDs, return yards then....Which is stupid IMO since it has nothing to do with defense.

We don't in my league...As a straight up defense they got 6 points in my default scoring league where points allowed, sacks, int, fumble recovery, safety, block kicks, td are the stats.


And 6 points aint so hot. The Pats made their defense look silly.


Where are all the people that said the Pats arent that great this year and that their recievers just aren't any good and can't get the job done?

Every league I've ever played in has D/ST where only return touchdowns count as points. That's what I was arguing the whole time, so if you are going to keep making a big deal of this, go ahead chief. And if you don't count special teams, I'd advise taking blocked kicks out of your scoring.

New England executed very well, but their gameplan was even better.

[xBigNastyx]

Every league I've ever played in has D/ST where only return touchdowns count as points. That's what I was arguing the whole time, so if you are going to keep making a big deal of this, go ahead chief. And if you don't count special teams, I'd advise taking blocked kicks out of your scoring.

New England executed very well, but their gameplan was even better.


I was wrong , we don't use blocked kicks...I dono why I thought we did.


And I brought it up, because you proceeded to dismiss my opinion and tell me how wrong it was when I said it was stupid to expect the Vikings to do well for fantasy this week against the Pats. And they didn't.

[UNC41]

I was wrong , we don't use blocked kicks...I dono why I thought we did.


And I brought it up, because you proceeded to dismiss my opinion and tell me how wrong it was when I said it was stupid to expect the Vikings to do well for fantasy this week against the Pats. And they didn't.

In the context of what you thought we were arguing, they didn't. In the context of what I did, they did.

[xBigNastyx]

Like I said, where is everyone who said the Pats weren't that good this year and would really suffer badly without Branch, McGinest?

[UNC41]

Like I said, where is everyone who said the Pats weren't that good this year and would really suffer badly without Branch, McGinest?

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5207149&postcount=1924

[2SteppingInVA]

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5207149&postcount=1924
They are a good team, but no.

[xBigNastyx]

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=5207149&postcount=1924


Ok, you said that today, about what an hour ago?

What did you say weeks ago when I was saying they are def better than the Falcons and will be fine without Branch, McGinest, etc?


You told me I was way off did you not?


This happens EVERY YEAR, it's hilarious.

Every year, the Pats are written off at the beginning of the year, and they just continue to win and then eventually everyone sucks them off after they crush a team...:lol

[UNC41]

They are a good team, but no.

After destroying one very good football team and one good one on the road in the past four games, it's an argument you can make.

[UNC41]

Ok, you said that today, about what an hour ago?

What did you say weeks ago when I was saying they are def better than the Falcons and will be fine without Branch, McGinest, etc?


You told me I was way off did you not?


This happens EVERY YEAR, it's hilarious.

Every year, the Pats are written off at the beginning of the year, and they just continue to win and then eventually everyone sucks them off after they crush a team...:lol

I admit I was wrong and you act like a douche. Weird.

And every year? The Pats were considered to be one of the two elite teams in football last year.

[clayj41]

Ok, you said that today, about what an hour ago?

What did you say weeks ago when I was saying they are def better than the Falcons and will be fine without Branch, McGinest, etc?


You told me I was way off did you not?


This happens EVERY YEAR, it's hilarious.

Every year, the Pats are written off at the beginning of the year, and they just continue to win and then eventually everyone sucks them off after they crush a team...:lol

They're a very good team. We'll see just how good they are next week...

[luke7]

Boy I hope that New England beats Indy next week.

[xBigNastyx]

I admit I was wrong and you act like a douche. Weird.

And every year? The Pats were considered to be one of the two elite teams in football last year.

Towards the end of the year. But every year at the beginning of the year, everyone talks about how they can't overcome anything, and they prove everyone wrong and THEN everyone hops on the bandwagon.

[xBigNastyx]

Boy I hope that New England beats Indy next week.

I have confidence that they will.

I have said all along and have always told my friends that as a Pats fan, the Colts never scare me at all. It's the Broncos that always worry me...

[Tiduwho]

Man I can't wait for week 12. Gah...why won't it come already??

[BotheDMBFan]

My top 5.

1. Colts
2. Bears
3. Pats
4. Broncos
5. Ravens.

[dmbmuskie]

Saying the Pats don't miss Branch is foolish. Anytime you let your franchise QBs favorite target go it is a stupid move.

[RJ2kWJ]

Boy I hope that New England beats Indy next week.

I think they will. It's at home, and if the defense plays like they did against the Vikings, I think they come out with the win. The offense will run/pass ALL over the the Colts D.

[dmbmuskie]

The Pats are going to get killed. Who is going to cover the Colts recievers?

[dmbbmd18]

colts are going undefeated. just you wait. unless someone kills themselves.

[dmbmuskie]

colts are going undefeated. just you wait. unless someone kills themselves.

That's not cool.:twenty4

[dmbbmd18]

That's not cool.:twenty4

Its sad but true.

[xBigNastyx]

Saying the Pats don't miss Branch is foolish. Anytime you let your franchise QBs favorite target go it is a stupid move.

I didn't say they don't miss him at all. I said we can replace him and we would be just fine.

Did you see the game? Ok then.

[xBigNastyx]

The Pats are going to get killed. Who is going to cover the Colts recievers?


You're very ignorant when it comes to teams other than the Steelers...Who the hell is gonna stop Tom Brady and Dillon, Maroney??????


No one cause the Colts defense just isn't very good at all..

If you think the Colts are gonna crush the Pats, then you don't seem very educated about teams outside of Pittsburgh.

[dmbmuskie]

I didn't say they don't miss him at all. I said we can replace him and we would be just fine.

Did you see the game? Ok then.

I watched the entire game, and there isn't a reciever on the field nearly as talented as Branch. You've definitely drank the New Engalnd kool-aid with your beliefs that everyone can be replaced, and things are okay.

You're very ignorant when it comes to teams other than the Steelers...Who the hell is gonna stop Tom Brady and Dillon, Maroney??????


No one cause the Colts defense just isn't very good at all..

If you think the Colts are gonna crush the Pats, then you don't seem very educated about teams outside of Pittsburgh.

Sure the Pats are going to score next week, but their defense isn't near that of Denver. Other than Seymour their isn't a playmaker on your defense anymore. You need playmakers to beat the Colts, and even then it sometimes isn't enough, as they showed in Denver.

[WearHouse]

What is this the Indy/Patriots thread? If the past has told us anything no matter how good the Colts do they will not make the super bowl. Something ridiculous will happen and they will lose to a team that everyone thinks they are better than. Peyton Manning may be one of the biggest choke artists in recent memory (aside from Vanderjagt who is just an idiot but still statistically the best kicker in NFL history). Furthermore the Patriots will also not make the superbowl. Lets not forgot how they were shutdown by the Broncos earlier in the season and their stellar victories have come against teams with a combined 17-26 (this includes BUFFALO twice). Please do not say Minnesota is a good team because they are not (they lost to BUFFALO), they may have a good D-line but guess what, the Patriots have a superior O-line. Defense wins super bowls and neither of these teams has a good defense to win games. OK maybe the Patriots have a good run defense but who the hell is Ellis Hobbs or Asant Samuel. My point is if the NFL has taught any of us a lesson it is that the least likely team has the best shot at winning i.e. Steelers, who are the worste team in the NFL. WHO THE HELL LOSES TO THE RADIERS !?

[xBigNastyx]

I watched the entire game, and there isn't a reciever on the field nearly as talented as Branch. You've definitely drank the New Engalnd kool-aid with your beliefs that everyone can be replaced, and things are okay.



Sure the Pats are going to score next week, but their defense isn't near that of Denver. Other than Seymour their isn't a playmaker on your defense anymore. You need playmakers to beat the Colts, and even then it sometimes isn't enough, as they showed in Denver.

It's funny how wrong you are and how often you completely make up things. I didn't say the new recievers were better than Branch. I said that they will be ok without him. And so far, guess what? They have been.

And their defense will be fine against the Colts. Denver played a vanilla defense and strayed from their style of defense. Their gameplan was horrible agaisnt the Colts. The Patriots are good planning, so don't expect that to happen. Anyone, I repeat anyone who thinks that the Colts are gonna go to Foxboro and kick the shit out of the Patriots is a fool. It will be a good/close game.

You should stick to only talking about the Steelers and admitting your ignorance about the rest of the NFL.

[thebigv]

My head just exploded from that post.

*edit: before yours.

[xBigNastyx]

What is this the Indy/Patriots thread? If the past has told us anything no matter how good the Colts do they will not make the super bowl. Something ridiculous will happen and they will lose to a team that everyone thinks they are better than. Peyton Manning may be one of the biggest choke artists in recent memory (aside from Vanderjagt who is just an idiot but still statistically the best kicker in NFL history). Furthermore the Patriots will also not make the superbowl. Lets not forgot how they were shutdown by the Broncos earlier in the season and their stellar victories have come against teams with a combined 17-26 (this includes BUFFALO twice). Please do not say Minnesota is a good team because they are not (they lost to BUFFALO), they may have a good D-line but guess what, the Patriots have a superior O-line. Defense wins super bowls and neither of these teams has a good defense to win games. OK maybe the Patriots have a good run defense but who the hell is Ellis Hobbs or Asant Samuel. My point is if the NFL has taught any of us a lesson it is that the least likely team has the best shot at winning i.e. Steelers, who are the worste team in the NFL. WHO THE HELL LOSES TO THE RADIERS !?

Wow you are very very wrong. The last SB the Pats won, they won with Asante Samuel, and Randall Gay starting as rookies at corner.....

Ellis Hobbs is better than both of them. So their corners are better than it used to be. Way to sound educated...:rolleyes

And the least likely team always has the best chance to win the Superbowl, wtf are you talking about?

Ok guys, let's pencil the Rams in for the Superbowl champs, they are the favorites since they are one of the least expected!.


Wow, your post may just be the worst I have ever seen.

[UNC41]

UNG, who is your college basketball team? I really hope it's Duke.

[xBigNastyx]

Why would I like Duke? And why do you hope it is?

[UNC41]

Why do some enjoy watching horses fuck women? I enjoy arguing sports against you.

[xBigNastyx]

Why do some enjoy watching horses fuck women? I enjoy arguing sports against you.


Well, no I don't like Duke, and to be honest, I couldn't care less about Basketball.

[WearHouse]

22nd Pass D in the NFL, good job Ellis and AsantE way to be playmakers. Oh and the whole thing about the least likely team will win, it's called parody and thats the NFL's calling card. Remember a little team named the Steelers they were a wild card team, THE LEAST LIKELY TEAM TO WIN.

[UNC41]

22nd Pass D in the NFL, good job Ellis and AsantE way to be playmakers. Oh and the whole thing about the least likely team will win, it's called parody and thats the NFL's calling card. Remember a little team named the Steelers they were a wild card team, THE LEAST LIKELY TEAM TO WIN.

So what you're saying is a Wild Card team is less likely to win than a team that misses the playoffs. Genius. Trash the Pats all you want, but no one in the NFL has gone on the road and dismantled two good football teams the way they have.

[xBigNastyx]

22nd Pass D in the NFL, good job Ellis and AsantE way to be playmakers. Oh and the whole thing about the least likely team will win, it's called parody and thats the NFL's calling card. Remember a little team named the Steelers they were a wild card team, THE LEAST LIKELY TEAM TO WIN.


:lol

I'm pretty sure the Steelers were looked at as a DAMN good team, and it wasn't completely out of left field that they won.

You have very skewed opinions that just don't make sense....

I guess every year, the worst team that makes it to the playoffs wins the Superbowl then.

By the way, Ellis Hobbs broke his wrist earlier this season and just returned yesterday, and they have been playing with an injured secondary...Don't run your mouth about a team that you have absolutley NO knowledge about whatsoever.

By the way, this secondary stopped Carson Palmer pretty well....And this secondary has had PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of success against Peyton Manning.

Please learn about what the hell you're talking about, or just keep quiet.

Belichick will have this team very prepared for Sunday...there is a reason that Manning has thrown 13 ints in 7 career games against the Patriots. And plenty of those have come without the benefit of Ty Law in the game.

[xBigNastyx]

22nd Pass D in the NFL, good job Ellis and AsantE way to be playmakers. Oh and the whole thing about the least likely team will win, it's called parody and thats the NFL's calling card. Remember a little team named the Steelers they were a wild card team, THE LEAST LIKELY TEAM TO WIN.

By the way, you have to take the NFL rankings of defense and whatnot with a grain of salt.

Otherwise I guess you would be a believer that the Raiders have THE BEST pass defense in the NFL?


They base things on yardage allowed...and you can't rate a defense completely on that. Teams don't get a lot of yardage against say the Raiders because they get great field position against them by causing the Raiders to commit turnovers or whatever...

I can't stand ignorant people.

[dmbmuskie]

It's funny how wrong you are and how often you completely make up things. I didn't say the new recievers were better than Branch. I said that they will be ok without him. And so far, guess what? They have been.

And their defense will be fine against the Colts. Denver played a vanilla defense and strayed from their style of defense. Their gameplan was horrible agaisnt the Colts. The Patriots are good planning, so don't expect that to happen. Anyone, I repeat anyone who thinks that the Colts are gonna go to Foxboro and kick the shit out of the Patriots is a fool. It will be a good/close game.

You should stick to only talking about the Steelers and admitting your ignorance about the rest of the NFL.


I said the recievers are no where close to the talent level as Branch, and that Brady does miss his favorite target. There has been plenty of talk about how many hot reads the new guys have missed. This really showed up during the Denver game when they were totally outclassed. It's going to show up again against Chicago and Jacksonville, and in the the playoffs when they're not playing soft teams week after week.

The defense is not going to be fine against the Colts, because while you use to win the chess match, the chess pieces just are not there any longer, and the ones that are still left aren't the players they were. I don't care who you have planning, you're not going to stop Manning with Chad Scott, Ellis Hobbs, etc. covering guys.

The Colts kicked the shit out of the Pats last year in Foxboro, and you cannot argue that.

Also, I'm one of the more knowledgeable people on here about football period. You saying I'm not and calling me an idiot is really just a waste of your time.

[WearHouse]

Let me explain, the rankings going into the playoffs are there for a reason. They tell you who the elite teams are and the not-so-elite teams hence home field advantage and first round byes. The wild card team is always the least likely to win because they have a worse record then the rest of the field and/or couldn't win their division. That being said the NFL prides itself on parody and anyone can win making the worste team the most likely to win, thats nearly the definition of parody. But I am done speaking since I cannot contend with the All-Knowing All-Powerful Patriots Statistician.

[dmbmuskie]

The Wildcard teams aren't always the least likely to win it all. I'd say some times they are the 2nd best team.

[xBigNastyx]

I said the recievers are no where close to the talent level as Branch, and that Brady does miss his favorite target. There has been plenty of talk about how many hot reads the new guys have missed. This really showed up during the Denver game when they were totally outclassed. It's going to show up again against Chicago and Jacksonville, and in the the playoffs when they're not playing soft teams week after week.

The defense is not going to be fine against the Colts, because while you use to win the chess match, the chess pieces just are not there any longer, and the ones that are still left aren't the players they were. I don't care who you have planning, you're not going to stop Manning with Chad Scott, Ellis Hobbs, etc. covering guys.

The Colts kicked the shit out of the Pats last year in Foxboro, and you cannot argue that.

Also, I'm one of the more knowledgeable people on here about football period. You saying I'm not and calling me an idiot is really just a waste of your time.


The Colts destroyed us last year, but did you know our entire team was injured? What about the playoffs in 2004 when Randall Gay and Asante Samuel (as rookies), and the rest of the secondary like Wilson, Harrison, Reid and Troy Brown easily stopped Harrison, Wayne and Manning?

This secondary is stronger than that one was....

[xBigNastyx]

The Wildcard teams aren't always the least likely to win it all. I'd say some times they are the 2nd best team.

Exactly...Which IMO was the Steelers case last year..


Just like how in baseball when the Sox are the WildCard because the Yankees won the division, does NOT mean they are the weakest team in the playoffs..That is the DUMBEST thing I have ever heard.

[xBigNastyx]

Let me explain, the rankings going into the playoffs are there for a reason. They tell you who the elite teams are and the not-so-elite teams hence home field advantage and first round byes. The wild card team is always the least likely to win because they have a worse record then the rest of the field and/or couldn't win their division. That being said the NFL prides itself on parody and anyone can win making the worste team the most likely to win, thats nearly the definition of parody. But I am done speaking since I cannot contend with the All-Knowing All-Powerful Patriots Statistician.


Good. Glad you understand....Take your ignorance away then.

[xBigNastyx]

The Colts kicked the shit out of the Pats last year in Foxboro, and you cannot argue that.



Did you know we had Mike Stone starting at safety in that game because of injuries? Duane Starks at corner...They both SUCK.

Our team was depleted by injuries. Don't expect this game to be similar.

We also had no running game last year since Dillon was nursing injuries ALL YEAR long.

[SteelerMan]

Let me explain, the rankings going into the playoffs are there for a reason. They tell you who the elite teams are and the not-so-elite teams hence home field advantage and first round byes. The wild card team is always the least likely to win because they have a worse record then the rest of the field and/or couldn't win their division. That being said the NFL prides itself on parody and anyone can win making the worste team the most likely to win, thats nearly the definition of parody. But I am done speaking since I cannot contend with the All-Knowing All-Powerful Patriots Statistician.

The NFL prides itself on humorous or satirical imitations of serious pieces of literature or writing? :confused

[dmbmuskie]

The Colts destroyed us last year, but did you know our entire team was injured? What about the playoffs in 2004 when Randall Gay and Asante Samuel (as rookies), and the rest of the secondary like Wilson, Harrison, Reid and Troy Brown easily stopped Harrison, Wayne and Manning?

This secondary is stronger than that one was....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 2004 game was played in the snow and wind. If I see Sunday that the game is going to be played in those conditions I might change my mind.

I don't care how good the Pats seconday is compared to the patchwork defense they threw out there when they won. They are not in the same leagues as the Broncos guys, and they got absolutely shredded.

[dmbmuskie]

Did you know we had Mike Stone starting at safety in that game because of injuries? Duane Starks at corner...They both SUCK.

Our team was depleted by injuries. Don't expect this game to be similar.

We also had no running game last year since Dillon was nursing injuries ALL YEAR long.

Injuries are a piss poor excuse.

The Steelers beat the Pats in 2004, if Casey Hampton is healty.

I know you aren't going to agree with that.

[Trippin4136]

sweet, so this has turned into the "Patriots are perfect and all your teams have glaring faults" thread. awesome.

[SteelerMan]

I hear that from Patriots fans a lot... when they're injured and they win, it's a testament to the depth of their team and the brilliance of Belichick. When they're injured and they lose, they blame it on the injuries. When they beat injured teams and opposing fans point out that they lost because of injuries, the opposing fans are "just making excuses", or "disrespecting the Patriots just like everyone does every year." The routine has gotten old.

[Trippin4136]

^^^
That's exactly how I've experienced Pats fans.

This guy's got the same shtick with the Pats as he does with the Red Sox.

[dmbmuskie]

The Pats have the best coach and the best QB so clearly they are the best team.:rolleyes

[Trippin4136]

New England's last 5 games in 2006:

Detroit, @ Miami, Houston, @ Jax, @ Tennessee

that is fucking ridiculous. Maybe 1 competitive game when the playoffs and home field are on the line. Jeez, what a gauntlet they'll be running through.

7th from the bottom in overall strength of schedule as a division winner the previous season. that's horseshit. And the Seahawks being 3rd to last Bears being dead last is even worse.

[SteelerMan]

The Steelers schedule is pretty ridiculous. Then again, when they can't even beat Oakland, I have a hard time complaining about the strength of schedule.

[Trippin4136]

yea. my Giants are tied for the hardest schedule with the Bengals. So far, so good.

[xBigNastyx]

sweet, so this has turned into the "Patriots are perfect and all your teams have glaring faults" thread. awesome.

Yep cause I certainly said that. Way to make up stuff! :thumbsup

All I said was where is everyone who said the Patriots just arent very good? They are on the bandwagon now.

[xBigNastyx]

I hear that from Patriots fans a lot... when they're injured and they win, it's a testament to the depth of their team and the brilliance of Belichick. When they're injured and they lose, they blame it on the injuries. When they beat injured teams and opposing fans point out that they lost because of injuries, the opposing fans are "just making excuses", or "disrespecting the Patriots just like everyone does every year." The routine has gotten old.


I never said anything like that. :lol

I said don't expect the Colts to kill us this year like they did last year, because we are healthy now. I never said the words "we lost because we were hurt last year"

[xBigNastyx]

New England's last 5 games in 2006:

Detroit, @ Miami, Houston, @ Jax, @ Tennessee

that is fucking ridiculous. Maybe 1 competitive game when the playoffs and home field are on the line. Jeez, what a gauntlet they'll be running through.

7th from the bottom in overall strength of schedule as a division winner the previous season. that's horseshit. And the Seahawks being 3rd to last Bears being dead last is even worse.

No, it's fair. The Pats schedule was hard as shit last year. Why should their schedule be one of the toughest every year?

[SteelerMan]

Did you know we had Mike Stone starting at safety in that game because of injuries? Duane Starks at corner...They both SUCK.

Our team was depleted by injuries. Don't expect this game to be similar.

We also had no running game last year since Dillon was nursing injuries ALL YEAR long.

:lol

Yeah, doesn't sound like you're blaming injuries to me.

[GOB_]

No, it's fair. The Pats schedule was hard as shit last year. Why should their schedule be one of the toughest every year?

Because they win their division every year. However, I don't get too upset about the scheduling. Obviously, New England doesn't control who they play. And now that the schedules are rotated every year, there are going to be years that they play a weak division or two.

[Trippin4136]

Because they win their division every year. However, I don't get too upset about the scheduling. Obviously, New England doesn't control who they play. And now that the schedules are rotated every year, there are going to be years that they play a weak division or two.

certainly its this year by getting to place their pillow fight division and the NFC North which has put the Bears S.O.S in the toilet.

[xBigNastyx]

:lol

Yeah, doesn't sound like you're blaming injuries to me.


I was stating that because someone said the Colts will kill the Pats this year cause they did last year. This year and last year are different. Learn to figure out what the context of what someone is saying is.

[UNC41]

Yep cause I certainly said that. Way to make up stuff! :thumbsup

All I said was where is everyone who said the Patriots just arent very good? They are on the bandwagon now.

Bandwagons are something people jump on to cheer for a team. Saying that the Pats are one of the best in the NFL right now after not doing it earlier isn't hopping on the bandwagon. It's acknowledging they are playing great football. New England, and Tom Brady to single someone out, struggled against two weak teams to begin the season. It was completely logical to say they didn't look like an elite team in the NFL.

[SteelerMan]

I was stating that because someone said the Colts will kill the Pats this year cause they did last year. This year and last year are different. Learn to figure out what the context of what someone is saying is.

Not to be rude, but you're quickly becoming the most obnoxious poster on here. I'm wishing I was back to arguing with Katie Brady right about now.

[thebigv]

Learn to figure out what the context of what someone is saying is.

"You misinterpreted my comment because you took it out of context" is much more appropriate than touting yourself as a hardass on the boards. It's not easy to read contextual meanings when there are multiple statements made and sarcasm is difficult to read via the internet.

[seekupig]

other than two games each season, the schedule's for every team in the NFL are decided at least four years out. go to your team's homesite and you can look at matchups until 2009 as of right now. strength of schedule has become luck of the draw with the current parity in the league.

for example.....

http://www.kcchiefs.com/future/

[Trippin4136]

Not to be rude, but you're quickly becoming the most obnoxious poster on here. I'm wishing I was back to arguing with Katie Brady right about now.

"You misinterpreted my comment because you took it out of context" is much more appropriate than touting yourself as a hardass on the boards. It's not easy to read contextual meanings when there are multiple statements made and sarcasm is difficult to read via the internet.

BigNasty. Different username, same pissy, superior attitude. No shock to me.

[xBigNastyx]

BigNasty. Different username, same pissy, superior attitude. No shock to me.


I don't get defensive until you come here and act condescending.

[xBigNastyx]

Not to be rude, but you're quickly becoming the most obnoxious poster on here. I'm wishing I was back to arguing with Katie Brady right about now.

Yeah because you made false statements about me and I am a jerk for defending them. You talked down to me in saying that I blame everything on injuries, I then get mad about it and defend myself then I'm the jerk...interesting.

[Trippin4136]

you got into the spats with other posters. don't take it out on me.

you get condescendin whenever a poster makes a comment that touches a nerve with you.