2007 Major League Baseball Season

[junior94]

Boy does that suck, in a game where pitchers are systematically put in and take out per full inning or even just individual batters as a way to get everyone in for their turn and whatnot, to have to be removed simply because you're not getting the job done... and as a closer, no less, when you were put in expressly for the job of sending everyone home. DOH!! :p

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

I would just love for two Cubbies to smack homers in the 9th of an All star game. Bitch Please.

[ProudestAnt]

I'll put Lee in my av with the label "Lee is my daddy" if he even gets on base...

[DMBtheStoned]

hows that avatar change coming?

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

Damn Right Lee Did Not Swing 2 On Baby !!!!!!!!!

[ProudestAnt]

Goddammit, someone find me a picture of D-Lee...

[junior94]

That's right, the NL guys don't know how this works. K-Rod enters game = game over...

Umm, ain't that pretty much what they said when Mo Rivera came into the end of Game 4 of the 2004 AL Championship Series? ;)


Thing I was thinking, given the shroud of mystery surrounding Bonds suddenly getting enough votes to be in as a starter and that act (unles I'm mistaken) particularly pushed Soriano out of 3rd to be the starter, how perfect would it have been if that homer of his would've given them the lead and thus win, especially there in SF's park :p

[ProudestAnt]

Wwwwwwwwwwhy is Pujols not in the game?

[DMBtheStoned]

:lol :lol :lol

[Tiduwho]

Wtf wtf wtf, why in the WORLD is La Russa keeping Pujols on the bench? I don't get it!

[DMBtheStoned]

is La Russa high?!?!

[ProudestAnt]

Seriously, someone find me a good pic of D-Lee, he'll be in my av until I get sick of calling him my daddy...

[DMBtheStoned]

this is getting interesting

[ProudestAnt]

Soooo, cue Pujols right?

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

Bases Loaded Hah!!!!! Cmon Nl You Need To Break Their Sreak !!!

[ProudestAnt]

Wow dear jesus, he's going to let Aaron Rowand hit...

[Tiduwho]

Seriously, someone find me a good pic of D-Lee, he'll be in my av until I get sick of calling him my daddy...

Mine is probably the best one of the google image picks. He's got others though.

[DMBtheStoned]

here is a good D Lee pic

[Trippin4136]

How, HOW does he let Pujols just sit??

Aaron Rowand orrrr.....one of the best hitters on the planet?

[Tiduwho]

La Russa should be shot. What a joke. WHAT A JOKE. Fucking La Russa piece of shit.

[ProudestAnt]

Damn right...

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

Right before they lost I said please dont pop fly.....and he did one second later.

[DMBtheStoned]

Ya wtf why no pujols ??

[UNC41]

Lololololololarussa.

[DMBtheStoned]

well the 9th was definitely interesting

[UCFish]

Did La Russa not WANT to win?? I just don't get that.

[TheOtherside]

i hate the cardinals and i hate pujols, but what the fuck!!! where the hell was he??

[ProudestAnt]

This isn't going to last long...

[Tiduwho]

I hate La Russa more than Bonds right now. What the fuck was he doing? "Protecting" his players? What a load of horse shit. He knows the Cardinals have no chance of getting back to the World Series so he says "Who gives a shit if the NL gets shafted again, I gotta protect my boy."

POS managing.

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

I'm at least glad Soriano kept the game alive.

[ProudestAnt]

LaRussa didn't want his boy to get tired...

[Tiduwho]

This isn't going to last long...

That's a really terrible pic...you can't see him and he's got a hunchback! :lol

[ProudestAnt]

It's his jersey valiantly flapping in the wind on his way to his HR trot...

[UCFish]

This isn't going to last long...

Lookin sharp. :D

[DMBtheStoned]

This isn't going to last long...

Hey bro nice avatar ;) your a man of your word :thumbsup

[UNC41]

Ichiro is big pimpin out there.

[Tiduwho]

It's his jersey valiantly flapping in the wind on his way to his HR trot...

Use this one:

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r34/quick215/untitled.jpg

[ProudestAnt]

I stand by my word. I talk big, and once in a while have to back it up, but I'm not afraid to...

[DMBtheStoned]

That's a really terrible pic...you can't see him and he's got a hunchback! :lol


Eh that was the best I could find in my 20 seconds of searching!

[junior94]

This even comes from a Phillies fan, looking at it objectively as a manager, yes especially given the fact that Rowand already did get one at-bat already, I really can't comprehend why Pujols was not entered in. True it wouldn't be a direct position replacement, but at that point that hardly mattered, not only would it have adhered to the little league-ish idea of "everyone getting a chance to play", but obviously as everyone knows Pujols is arguably the best all around hitter in baseball. I don't understand at all why he didn't pinch hit for Rowand.

And don't you think LaRussa won't get asked about it. Only thing I'm bummed about now is that surprise and misunderstanding coupled with the fact that Rowand ended up merely hitting a pop fly could inadvertinely make him look quite bad and not deservedly so. :shrug

[justink]

i'd say larussa did a great job at managing this 9th. at first, my thought was also "why isn't he putting Pooh in?"

it comes down to this... runners in scoring position, pujols is the only guy you haven't burned. you HAVE to keep him in your pocket and hope the guys in play can atleast take it to extra innings. then you have pooh to use when you REALLY need him. yes, it's a gamble, but unfortunately it didn't work out. but i agree w/ larussa's decision here.

the N.L. had a great chance, but it didn't work out.

now, tomorrow's pti should be interesting regarding the hr tha was wrangled in over the fence by a fan. remember the w.s. hr (was it posada?) at yankee stadium?

it's ultimately an outfield umpire's call... but that could have changed the tide of this game for sure.

either way, it was a great game and i enjoyed watching!!!

-j

[Tiduwho]

With ur ching chang chong talk...go back to ur country...white pow'r.

[DMBtheStoned]

Pujols should have batted. if your down by a run in the bottom of the 9th and bases loaded you bring in your best hitter. I don't understand it at all.

[UCFish]

With ur ching chang chong talk...go back to ur country...white pow'r.

:confused

:lol

[Tiduwho]

i'd say larussa did a great job at managing this 9th. at first, my thought was also "why isn't he putting Pooh in?"

it comes down to this... runners in scoring position, pujols is the only guy you haven't burned. you HAVE to keep him in your pocket and hope the guys in play can atleast take it to extra innings. then you have pooh to use when you REALLY need him. yes, it's a gamble, but unfortunately it didn't work out. but i agree w/ larussa's decision here.

-j


Wrong. With bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th with two outs, that is when you need him. With a base hit it is game over. There are two outs, there are no sac flys, there is very little chance of the inning ending in a tie. The game is NOT going to continue on. You put your best hitter in and the game is over, there was no realistic tie situation. It was downright asinine managing.

If it was the top of the 9th, or with only one out, or already a tie game you can make the case for leaving Pujols on the bench. His decision was retarded.

[UCFish]

Pujols should have batted. if your down by a run in the bottom of the 9th and bases loaded you bring in your best hitter. I don't understand it at all.

Exactly there was no need to gamble. A hit would have won the game. There was no need to save him for another inning.

[justink]

so, ichiro as mvp? i'd say so.

-j

[UCFish]

Wrong. With bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th with two outs, that is when you need him. With a base hit it is game over. There are two outs, there are no sac flys, there is very little chance of the inning ending in a tie. You put your best hitter in and the game is over, there was no realistic tie situation. It was downright asinine managing.

:thumbsup

[TheOtherside]

i'd say larussa did a great job at managing this 9th. at first, my thought was also "why isn't he putting Pooh in?"

it comes down to this... runners in scoring position, pujols is the only guy you haven't burned. you HAVE to keep him in your pocket and hope the guys in play can atleast take it to extra innings. then you have pooh to use when you REALLY need him. yes, it's a gamble, but unfortunately it didn't work out. but i agree w/ larussa's decision here.



:ugh

you don't really need him down 1 with the bases loaded in the bottom of the ninth and 2 outs?

trust me, if this was a regular season game and pujols didn't start, LaJackass would have put him up at the plate.

[DMBtheStoned]

Wrong. With bases loaded in the bottom of the 9th with two outs, that is when you need him. With a base hit it is game over. There are two outs, there are no sac flys, there is very little chance of the inning ending in a tie. The game is NOT going to continue on. You put your best hitter in and the game is over, there was no realistic tie situation. It was downright asinine managing.

:thumbsup

[justinandimcool]

:bang

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

With ur ching chang chong talk...go back to ur country...white pow'r.

:lol

[justink]

that's fine, but i guarantee you that's what the quotes in the paper will say...

why burn him if you have faith in the guys already in the game? use him when it's really needed...

i agree, i prolly would have put him in instead of rowand, but i'm just armchairing this deal. i think it was one of those things... if he's right, he's a genius, if he's wrong, he's a jackass...

-j

[GOB_]

maybe he passed out in the dugout after having a few too many...

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2007/0322071larussa1.html

Was that a low blow?

[TheOtherside]

no. he's a jackass either way. if this isn't an exhibition pujols bats. bs.

[Tiduwho]

that's fine, but i guarantee you that's what the quotes in the paper will say...

why burn him if you have faith in the guys already in the game? use him when it's really needed...

i agree, i prolly would have put him in instead of rowand, but i'm just armchairing this deal. i think it was one of those things... if he's right, he's a genius, if he's wrong, he's a jackass...

-j

If he's right, meaning Rowand comes through and gets a base hit, it doesn't MATTER that he kept Pujols on the bench, because it's game over.

[DMBtheStoned]

I don't know how anybody in their right mind wouldn't put Pujols up in the bottom of the 9th with the bases loaded and 2 outs.

[justink]

If he's right, meaning Rowand comes through and gets a base hit, it doesn't MATTER that he kept Pujols on the bench, because it's game over.

not necessarily. there could be a number of single base hits... not to mention an assist from left field to home to end the inning and go to the 10th.

-j

[Tiduwho]

not necessarily. there could be a number of single base hits... not to mention an assist from left field to home to end the inning and go to the 10th.

-j

Of course, and there also could be a wild pitch. But the fact is, there's no reason to risk it. There's no way you can risk letting your best player just sit there on the bench and rot and not have an opportunity to play (and WIN) the game, when if you don't put him in it's pretty much game over. It's inexcusable.

[junior94]

that's fine, but i guarantee you that's what the quotes in the paper will say...

why burn him if you have faith in the guys already in the game? use him when it's really needed...

i agree, i prolly would have put him in instead of rowand, but i'm just armchairing this deal. i think it was one of those things... if he's right, he's a genius, if he's wrong, he's a jackass...

-j

Believe me I understand what you're saying, but given it's the all-star game and that dynamic makes that completely faulty logic. After all, if you're going with that reasoning, why even make a single change from the starting lineup? Clearly you've got a field of some of the best in the whole league, you're telling me you wouldn't have faith in any/all of them to use for an entire game if you had to? So yea, that doesn't work here.

(well and also 'when he's really needed'? They were down to their last out, down one run, right? What would've been a more appropriate situation than that?)

[justinandimcool]

I'm just pissed because that was our chance at stealing home field advantage from the AL. :lol

Jesus, I still can't find a logical explanation.

[justink]

Of course, and there also could be a wild pitch. But the fact is, there's no reason to risk it. There's no way you can risk putting your best player just sit there on the bench and rot and not have an opportunity to play (and WIN) the game. It's inexcusable.

i'm not arguing w/ you. but still, what good would it do to have used pujols in the 8th and have no one on the bench for a possible extra inning(s).

you gotta look at both sides of the coin here.

(and i'm and Astros fan, so that means i dislike any cardinal. :lol )

-j

[TheOtherside]

it was the 9th, though.

with two outs.

down one.

and the best hitter in the game available to pinch hit.

do or die.

he let them die.

[justink]

it was the 9th, though.

with two outs.

down one.

and the best hitter in the game available to pinch hit.

do or die.

he let them die.

i understand that, and i'm feeling the same way.

but looking from a coaching stance, you gotta let the game play out and keep "an ace in the hole" if you will...

like i said, genius or jackass...

-j

[TheOtherside]

you keep an ace in the whole for when you NEED it. that seemed like a situation where an ace would have come in pretty handy.

like i said, he's a jackass either way in this instance. it's a moot point anyway, though, because even though this game is supposed to mean something now, no one that is involved with it directly seems to give two shits.

i'll say it again, if this was a regular season game pujols would have hit.

[junior94]

Aaaaaaaaaand right on cue... :D Pujols ain't smiling and he let Larussa know that:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/allstar07/news/story?id=2932400


Has there typically been any difficulty between them over the years?

[--Soma--]

well Pujols turned out to be a prick last year, I was suprised.

And did it occur to anyone that LaRussa probably doesn't give a shit about who wins the all star game?

[justink]

"La Russa said he indeed was saving his star player in case the game went long.

"Once we lost [Miguel] Cabrera and [Freddy] Sanchez, he was the guy we were going to use to protect ourselves in case we kept playing because of Albert's versatility," La Russa said. "I think we had the right guy at bat."

and there you have it...

it's just smart coaching. sure, the odd man left out is going to be upset, but there's something to be said that he was indeed held back because he could have been counted on in a dire clutch.

i hate being right... especially when my team loses...

-j

[--Soma--]

At least you'll always have memories of sweet Josh

[junior94]

"La Russa said he indeed was saving his star player in case the game went long.

"Once we lost [Miguel] Cabrera and [Freddy] Sanchez, he was the guy we were going to use to protect ourselves in case we kept playing because of Albert's versatility," La Russa said. "I think we had the right guy at bat."

and there you have it...

it's just smart coaching. sure, the odd man left out is going to be upset, but there's something to be said that he was indeed held back because he could have been counted on in a dire clutch.

i hate being right... especially when my team loses...


-j

With all due respect man, I still think you (& Larussa, if that's the case) are completely wrong. Believe me, it's an entirely different thing if the game was TIED in the same situation, then managing for extra innings is perfectly reasonable. But for fucks sake, you MUST score right then and there at least one run to be able to even try to get to extras. That was the very definition of the appropriate time.

[--Soma--]

I can't believe you guys are really analyzing the all star game. I guess Selig succeeded big time with his "this time it counts" thing... I remember when I just liked watching Kirby Puckett and Ken Griffey Jr. and was happy.

[ProudestAnt]

"La Russa said he indeed was saving his star player in case the game went long.

"Once we lost [Miguel] Cabrera and [Freddy] Sanchez, he was the guy we were going to use to protect ourselves in case we kept playing because of Albert's versatility," La Russa said. "I think we had the right guy at bat."

and there you have it...

it's just smart coaching. sure, the odd man left out is going to be upset, but there's something to be said that he was indeed held back because he could have been counted on in a dire clutch.

i hate being right... especially when my team loses...

-j That doesn't prove anything. Sooo basically he's saying that just in case he needs a MORE dire situation than bottom of the ninth, two out, down one and bases loaded, he wants to save Pujols? wtf. How much more dire does it get? You're full of shit and so is he...

[--Soma--]

You're Reading Too Much Into This

[ProudestAnt]

I can't believe you guys are really analyzing the all star game. I guess Selig succeeded big time with his "this time it counts" thing... I remember when I just liked watching Kirby Puckett and Ken Griffey Jr. and was happy. No, as a baseball fan, I analyze everything. From the single A games I attend locally all the way to the World Series, including spring training and all-star games in between. It's how you become knowledgable in a sport.

[Tiduwho]

Not really, homefield now goes to the AL. Which is asinine in itself, but the fact of the matter is, no matter what the National League teams do, they will be playing at a disadvantage in the World Series. All because La Russa knows he won't be back there and so doesn't manage the ballgame with an inkling of common sense.

[ProudestAnt]

You're Reading Too Much Into This Well if the Mets make the WS, you'll know who to blame when they lose...

[--Soma--]

No, as a baseball fan, I analyze everything. From the single A games I attend locally all the way to the World Series, including spring training and all-star games in between. It's how you become knowledgable in a sport.

Wow, why don't you lecture me on how to become knowledgable...

My point is that I think you guys are putting more thought into this than LaRussa did... I don't think he gives a shit who wins or loses. I'll analyze a real game till I'm blue in the face but I don't think this one is worth getting all worked up over.

[--Soma--]

Well if the Mets make the WS, you'll know who to blame when they lose...

Didn't hurt the Cardinals last year and the Mets have a better record on the road this season.

[ProudestAnt]

Didn't hurt the Cardinals last year and the Mets have a better record on the road this season. Last 8 game 7s have been won by the home team. And you know damn well your team doesn't have the pitching to win it in 4...

[--Soma--]

Last 8 game 7s have been won by the home team. And you know damn well your team doesn't have the pitching to win it in 4...

5th best era in baseball? Did you watch the playoffs last year? Their pitching was easily good enough to win it was the bats that went cold. I'm thinking you haven't paid much attention to the Mets this year because their starting pitching has been excellent.

[ProudestAnt]

Who's your 4th and 5th starters again?

[DMBtheStoned]

i hate being right... especially when my team loses...

-j

Just because La Russa did what you said doesn't make you right. Pujols should have hit with the bases loaded in the 9th with 2 outs...

[DMBtheStoned]

That doesn't prove anything. Sooo basically he's saying that just in case he needs a MORE dire situation than bottom of the ninth, two out, down one and bases loaded, he wants to save Pujols? wtf. How much more dire does it get? You're full of shit and so is he...


:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

[--Soma--]

Who's your 4th and 5th starters again?


John Maine and Jorge Sosa. Do you have a point? You're just further showing you don't know what you're talking about, which is fine, I'm not expert on the Cubs, but I don't claim to be, either.

[ProudestAnt]

John Maine and Jorge Sosa. Do you have a point? You're just further showing you don't know what you're talking about, which is fine, I'm not expert on the Cubs, but I don't claim to be, either. John Maine with that killer 6.10 ERA and Jorge Sosa who's not even listed on the depth chart, and as I recall is the reason that Pelfry is in the majors right now because of the injury. Plus, that ace of yours, Glavine with his monsterous 4.36 ERA must ease your worries of who gets the ball in game 7...

[--Soma--]

John Maine with that killer 6.10 ERA and Jorge Sosa who's not even listed on the depth chart, and as I recall is the reason that Pelfry is in the majors right now because of the injury. Plus, that ace of yours, Glavine with his monsterous 4.36 ERA must ease your worries of who gets the ball in game 7...

Do you have brain damage? John Maine's era is 2.71 and he should have been on the all start team. Glavine has been hot and cold... and if we're really analyzing a game 7 months from now Oliver Perez pitched very well in game 7 of the NLCS last year, El Duque is arguably the best big game pitcher in the majors right now, and all of this argument isn't even considering the potential Pedro factor.

[ProudestAnt]

The best big game pitcher in the majors is David Wells easily. I had Maine and Pelfry mixed up in ERAs. And your assumption of Ollie and Pedro playing a factor assumes that they both can stay healthy. Way too many ifs for me...

[--Soma--]

when has Oliver Perez been hurt? He missed one start this year and he's pitching right after the break. And I specifically said I WASN'T counting on Pedro.
Pelfrey has barely even pitched this year, he'd still be in triple A if Sosa hadn't gotten hurt. I'm not saying the Mets have the best pitching in the majors, but it's been very, very good. And you clearly just aren't familiar with the team or players.

[junior94]

Well if the Mets make the WS, you'll know who to blame when they lose...

Sweet jesus you must be kidding me, right? And you claim to be a knowledgable baseball fan. You're already conceding that if the Mets were to lose the World Series, the primary (if not sole) reason for their doing so would be because they didn't have homefield advantage. Wow, I only thought only Mets apologists would champion any reasons besides merely the fact that they were outplayed would be the reason for their loss (getting way ahead of ourselves of course, this is even if they lose, even if they make it to begin with). Any recent stats from history you wanna provide about homefield advantage winners don't mean squat. I mean that's just an unbelievably ridiculous statement. I really hope for your sake that's just you being overly reactionary from being stunned by what happened at the end of the game tonight, and that you don't sincerely think that.

And for the record, no, analyzing every little bit of the game even "from single A ball" as you say does not necessarily make you a more knowledgable fan. There's a thing to be said about overthinking things sometimes.

[--Soma--]

Sweet jesus you must be kidding me, right? And you claim to be a knowledgable baseball fan. You're already conceding that if the Mets were to lose the World Series, the primary (if not sole) reason for their doing so would be because they didn't have homefield advantage. Wow, I only thought only Mets apologists would champion any reasons besides merely the fact that they were outplayed would be the reason for their loss (getting way ahead of ourselves of course, this is even if they lose, even if they make it to begin with). Any recent stats from history you wanna provide about homefield advantage winners don't mean squat. I mean that's just an unbelievably ridiculous statement. I really hope for your sake that's just you being overly reactionary from being stunned by what happened at the end of the game tonight, and that you don't sincerely think that.

And for the record, no, analyzing every little bit of the game even "from single A ball" as you say does not necessarily make you a more knowledgable fan. There's a thing to be said about overthinking things sometimes.

um, read the last ten or so posts

[ProudestAnt]

Sweet jesus you must be kidding me, right? And you claim to be a knowledgable baseball fan. You're already conceding that if the Mets were to lose the World Series, the primary (if not sole) reason for their doing so would be because they didn't have homefield advantage. Wow, I only thought only Mets apologists would champion any reasons besides merely the fact that they were outplayed would be the reason for their loss (getting way ahead of ourselves of course, this is even if they lose, even if they make it to begin with). Any recent stats from history you wanna provide about homefield advantage winners don't mean squat. I mean that's just an unbelievably ridiculous statement. I really hope for your sake that's just you being overly reactionary from being stunned by what happened at the end of the game tonight, and that you don't sincerely think that.

And for the record, no, analyzing every little bit of the game even "from single A ball" as you say does not necessarily make you a more knowledgable fan. There's a thing to be said about overthinking things sometimes. Every time you make a post, it's a long-winded piece of garbage that makes no points and usually picks apart what people say. It's almost as if you sit and wait for someone to make a claim, then attempt to sound intelligent by berating them. Stats are everything in baseball. 17 of the last 21 WS champions had homefield, 8 of the last 8 WS that went to game 7 were won by the home team. Playing at home in the playoffs is a HUGE advantage in baseball. You bat last, you determine the strength of the lineup (ie. DH, meaning a pitcher may be able to go deeper in a close game because they do not have to be pinch run for or no DH, meaning an inferior field player may need to play in the field in order to bat), familiar demensions in the field (which plays a HUGE roll, you know which way the ball will bounce, how it will carem, and where the walls are) and you have 30,000+ screaming fans behind you.

And don't pull that Red Sox crap on me either like you tried to earlier. 2004 was a fluke and will never happen again in my lifetime and everyone knows it.

I didn't claim to be MORE knowledgable, I simply stated that the closer you follow the game, meaning the more games you watch and analyze, the more you will know about the game and how it's played/managed.

[--Soma--]

I didn't claim to be MORE knowledgable, I simply stated that the closer you follow the game, meaning the more games you watch and analyze, the more you will know about the game and how it's played/managed.

And if you think that closely analyzing an inane all star game adds to your breadth of knowledge then you are as ignorant as you appeared to be in our Mets pitching argument, which you seem to be happily diverted from.
Just so you know, lecturing other baseball fans on how to gain knowledge makes you sound like an ass. And when your point of reference is the all star game, it's just silly.

[justink]

That doesn't prove anything. Sooo basically he's saying that just in case he needs a MORE dire situation than bottom of the ninth, two out, down one and bases loaded, he wants to save Pujols? wtf. How much more dire does it get? You're full of shit and so is he...

whatever man... personally, i put pujols in for the last out.

but how about blaming the guy that did indeed make the last out instead of working a walk or getting a base hit afterall?

that was HIS game to lose or win in all actuality. putting pujols in did not GUARANTEE a win, as much as some would like to believe... hell, what did the glorious bonds do this week, besides sit on his ass and make outs?

-j

[ProudestAnt]

And if you think that closely analyzing an inane all star game adds to your breadth of knowledge then you are as ignorant as you appeared to be in our Mets pitching argument, which you seem to be happily diverted from.
Just so you know, lecturing other baseball fans on how to gain knowledge makes you sound like an ass. And when your point of reference is the all star game, it's just silly. It's a discussion in the baseball thread about a baseball game. Who the hell cares? Am I going to write LaRussa about my anger? No, I'll probably talk about it on the boat tomorrow with my buddies for 10 minutes then it will be forgotten. But what does it hurt to discuss what happened in a baseball game? If you don't like the discussion going on, don't join in, you suggest that others keep their mouths shut at times, perhaps you should try taking your own advice...

[justink]

Just because La Russa did what you said doesn't make you right. Pujols should have hit with the bases loaded in the 9th with 2 outs...

i've already stated what i would have done. but also stated what larussa was thinking when clearly no one else in this thread could imagine it.

but, i will side w/ larussa and his knowledge of the game and can't blame him for the loss... like i said, it was the guys' at the plate game to win or lose.

-j

[ProudestAnt]

whatever man... personally, i put pujols in for the last out.

but how about blaming the guy that did indeed make the last out instead of working a walk or getting a base hit afterall?

that was HIS game to lose or win in all actuality. putting pujols in did not GUARANTEE a win, as much as some would like to believe... hell, what did the glorious bonds do this week, besides sit on his ass and make outs?

-j You and I agree on point one and on point two. Absolutely Rowand should have taken the bull by the horns and proven himself. But it's more about being more realistic about the situation. Rowand is a career .283 hitter who was only AT the game because each team is required to be represented, why SHOULD it be up to him when a guy with a career line of .330, 266, 810 at the age of 27 sitting on the bench?

[justink]

It's a discussion in the baseball thread about a baseball game. Who the hell cares? Am I going to write LaRussa about my anger? No, I'll probably talk about it on the boat tomorrow with my buddies for 10 minutes then it will be forgotten. But what does it hurt to discuss what happened in a baseball game? If you don't like the discussion going on, don't join in, you suggest that others keep their mouths shut at times, perhaps you should try taking your own advice...

easy guys! we're all having fun here!!! :multi

no need for hostilities. hakuna mattata and all that crap.

-j

[justink]

You and I agree on point one and on point two. Absolutely Rowand should have taken the bull by the horns and proven himself. But it's more about being more realistic about the situation. Rowand is a career .283 hitter who was only AT the game because each team is required to be represented, why SHOULD it be up to him when a guy with a career line of .330, 266, 810 at the age of 27 sitting on the bench?

and maybe if Oswalt was in for an inning or two the final score might be different???

but like larussa said, he thought he had the right guy for the right situation. what else can you ask for? it didn't pan out, so he's a jackass... but if it did go to 10 innings w/ Pujols walking off... it would be a different past few pages of this thread altogether now wouldn't it?

i can't believe i've been backing larussa for a few hours... sheesh!! :eek

-j

[ProudestAnt]

and maybe if Oswalt was in for an inning or two the final score might be different???

but like larussa said, he thought he had the right guy for the right situation. what else can you ask for? it didn't pan out, so he's a jackass... but if it did go to 10 innings w/ Pujols walking off... it would be a different past few pages of this thread altogether now wouldn't it?

i can't believe i've been backing larussa for a few hours... sheesh!! :eek

-j I refuse to believe that any coach with Albert Pujols sitting on the bench believes that the has the "right guy for the right situation" with Aaron Rowand batting in that situation. Agreed there are a ton of "what ifs" and "coulda beens" in this game, just like in every game. I can see his rational if maybe Soriano, Beltran, or someone of the like up to bat in that situation, but Aaron Rowand? Come on...

[--Soma--]

It's a discussion in the baseball thread about a baseball game. Who the hell cares? Am I going to write LaRussa about my anger? No, I'll probably talk about it on the boat tomorrow with my buddies for 10 minutes then it will be forgotten. But what does it hurt to discuss what happened in a baseball game? If you don't like the discussion going on, don't join in, you suggest that others keep their mouths shut at times, perhaps you should try taking your own advice...

I can't believe you still don't understand my point.

[justink]

I refuse to believe that any coach with Albert Pujols sitting on the bench believes that the has the "right guy for the right situation" with Aaron Rowand batting in that situation. Agreed there are a ton of "what ifs" and "coulda beens" in this game, just like in every game. I can see his rational if maybe Soriano, Beltran, or someone of the like up to bat in that situation, but Aaron Rowand? Come on...

:twak a dead horse my friend.

i'm a pooh fan when he's not playing the 'stros. hell, his cousin is my fraternity brother, great guy. but all i'm saying is that i can see from a coach's view (and yes, i have coached upper level baseball), given the talent that team had... it was a tough decision and it didn't work out.

heck, my team lost, yeah i'm upset, especially since it was a close match... but cookie crumbles... so be it.

i'm still thinking about that fan interacted hr... sure it might have made it out on it's own merit, but damn close.

they called back one of vlad's hr's yesterday when a fan reached over and knocked it down as an out...

-j

[--Soma--]

discuss the intricacies of the all star game all you want, I just think it's pointless, which is why I'm not saying anything about it. I think you're making up reasoning and scenarios that don't exist.

But you failed horribly at your Mets pitching sucks argument. I love talking baseball and we have a lot of season left to do it, heh.

[ProudestAnt]

discuss the intricacies of the all star game all you want, I just think it's pointless, which is why I'm not saying anything about it. I think you're making up reasoning and scenarios that don't exist.

But you failed horribly at your Mets pitching sucks argument. I love talking baseball and we have a lot of season left to do it, heh. I'll be quite sure to drive home the fact that you failed horribly at an argument in an uber-pompous way such as they way you have when you confuse two players. I'm sure I won't have to wait long...:thumbsup

[ProudestAnt]

I have an idea. How about you let the manager from the teams with the best record through the first half of the season coach the all-star game? That way they don't make stupid mistakes just because it "doesn't matter" to them...

[--Soma--]

I'll be quite sure to drive home the fact that you failed horribly at an argument in an uber-pompous way such as they way you have when you confuse two players. I'm sure I won't have to wait long...:thumbsup

Explaining to us peons that closely examining a baseball game is how you became so knowlegable is far more pompous than anything I've said.

And I'm happy knowing that you've at least admitted you were wrong about the Mets pitching.

ps before you get super pissy I really don't view this as anything more than a sports discussion. Not trying to get personal here.

[ProudestAnt]

Explaining to us peons that closely examining a baseball game is how you became so knowlegable is far more pompous than anything I've said.

And I'm happy knowing that you've at least admitted you were wrong about the Mets pitching.

ps before you get super pissy I really don't view this as anything more than a sports discussion. Not trying to get personal here. You're acting like I called you a fucking fool because you don't analyze games. I simply stated that it's how I follow baseball. You said that I was overanalyzing the all-star game, and I explained that that's how I treat every baseball game. It's how I learned about the game (since I never played at any level). I'm a visual learner. The more I see, the more I learn. I really don't understand how explaining how I became knowledgable about a topic makes me pompous. I didn't suggest everyone do it, I just said what worked for me...

[--Soma--]

You're acting like I called you a fucking fool because you don't analyze games. I simply stated that it's how I follow baseball. You said that I was overanalyzing the all-star game, and I explained that that's how I treat every baseball game. It's how I learned about the game (since I never played at any level). I'm a visual learner. The more I see, the more I learn. I really don't understand how explaining how I became knowledgable about a topic makes me pompous. I didn't suggest everyone do it, I just said what worked for me...

But you're operating under false pretences... What I'm trying to say is that I don't think the game tonight was managed like a real game. I don't think LaRussa cared. Thereby making all these analysis meaningless. That's all I'm trying to say.

And how did you manage to not even play little league :freak

[junior94]

Every time you make a post, it's a long-winded piece of garbage that makes no points and usually picks apart what people say. It's almost as if you sit and wait for someone to make a claim, then attempt to sound intelligent by berating them. Stats are everything in baseball. 17 of the last 21 WS champions had homefield, 8 of the last 8 WS that went to game 7 were won by the home team. Playing at home in the playoffs is a HUGE advantage in baseball. You bat last, you determine the strength of the lineup (ie. DH, meaning a pitcher may be able to go deeper in a close game because they do not have to be pinch run for or no DH, meaning an inferior field player may need to play in the field in order to bat), familiar demensions in the field (which plays a HUGE roll, you know which way the ball will bounce, how it will carem, and where the walls are) and you have 30,000+ screaming fans behind you.

:lol :lol :lol

Aww dang, well I'm sorry to hear you're not so much a fan.


And don't pull that Red Sox crap on me either like you tried to earlier. 2004 was a fluke and will never happen again in my lifetime and everyone knows it.

Will never happen again in your lifetime and everyone knows it, huh? Errr... yea forgive me, that doesn't make you not sound like a knowledgable fan at all, I mean what a thoroughly reasonable statement to proclaim... :rolleyes

But hmm, you must not be the same person who I was thinking you were then. I always thought you were a staunch Red Sox fan (at least geez, I'd hope you're not now, otherwise you're even more doom and gloom than I am as a Phillies fan :ugh )


whatever man... personally, i put pujols in for the last out.

but how about blaming the guy that did indeed make the last out instead of working a walk or getting a base hit afterall?

that was HIS game to lose or win in all actuality. putting pujols in did not GUARANTEE a win, as much as some would like to believe... hell, what did the glorious bonds do this week, besides sit on his ass and make outs?

-j

Ahh see this is sort of what I was afraid of. While true, if Rowand had gotten a single there it would've virtually tied the game, an extra base hit would've certainly won it, but c'mon this still boils down to a very fundamental thing about baseball established long before tonight's game -- the whole NL team lost that game tonight. Rowand didn't. One man does not lose a game.

And I absolutely agree with you, of course Pujols wouldn't not have guaranteed a win. But baseball largely is a game about percentages and matchups. Especially in an all-star game where you have a surplus of options, and especially in a late inning crunch time situation, it's perfectly reasonable to go with your best chance of accomplishing something, and considering all that, yes even though Pujols happens to be in the worst HR slump of his young career, it statisically would've likelier been a better outcome with him put into bat.

You and I agree on point one and on point two. Absolutely Rowand should have taken the bull by the horns and proven himself. But it's more about being more realistic about the situation. Rowand is a career .283 hitter who was only AT the game because each team is required to be represented, why SHOULD it be up to him when a guy with a career line of .330, 266, 810 at the age of 27 sitting on the bench?

Boy for a guy who claims to be so knowledgeable of the game you sure do sound pretty ignorant here in your posts :lol

Lessee, the Phillies already had met their "required" amount of players present ya know with that guy who was STARTING at 2nd base, Chase Utley. Oh yea, and also that lefthanded pitcher of theirs, Cole Hamels. Rowand was there as a reserve in addition to them which means Larussa specifically felt he was of among the top 24 players in the NL deserving to be there (he is hitting .310 this season after all -- 5th among all NL outfielders -- with 11HR and 43RBI). And questionable call tonight by Larussa or not, it's still without question he's one of the greatest managers in the history of the game.


But hey, I just am totally cracked up by how this whole thing has become like this heated cutthroat argument now at this point, about the friggin all star game. :lol

[ProudestAnt]

But you're operating under false pretences... What I'm trying to say is that I don't think the game tonight was managed like a real game. I don't think LaRussa cared. Thereby making all these analysis meaningless. That's all I'm trying to say.

And how did you manage to not even play little league :freak I grew up in a football house and played on travel teams for my entire childhood. No time for little league. Although I wish I would have played. I used to go throw heat to the high school team for BP because the coach for the baseball team was my coach for football and he knew I had a gun (I played QB 4 years varsity). So he would have me go throw heat to the guys to get them ready for fastballs and change-ups. I threw in the high 70s to low 80s, but never played competitively...

[hearmorphish]

no good reason to "save" any player if you're down w/ 2 out in the ninth-bases loaded or not, but like he said, he thought he had the right guy in. most people who wanted a different outcome thought differently. go figure.

[Tiduwho]

I have an idea. How about you let the manager from the teams with the best record through the first half of the season coach the all-star game? That way they don't make stupid mistakes just because it "doesn't matter" to them...

I would support this policy for sure. :thumbsup


Only problem would be if records were tied.

[--Soma--]

Nice job by Pujols saying if he knew he wasn't going to play he wouldn't have shown up. Right or wrong, he's a classless guy and he really likes to whine.

[~Crashintome89~]

Keeping Pujols on the bench was the worst idea in the word. Especially, when Aaron Rowand is batting. Trust me, I'm a Phillies fan, he's not that great--nor is he better than Pujols.

[junior94]

Keeping Pujols on the bench was the worst idea in the word. Especially, when Aaron Rowand is batting. Trust me, I'm a Phillies fan, he's not that great--nor is he better than Pujols.

Umm... with all due respect, and again... while yes I said right ahead percentages-wise it would've been smartest to put Pujols in, hello, Rowand is having possibly a career year, the 5th best batting average among all NL outfielders at the moment, so none of this "especially when Rowand is batting". Plus okay even though he came up short, you know that there's nobody in that entire stadium that would've been possibly been trying any harder than Rowand was in that moment to make something happen.

[~Crashintome89~]

Umm... with all due respect, and again... while yes I said right ahead percentages-wise it would've been smartest to put Pujols in, hello, Rowand is having possibly a career year, the 5th best batting average among all NL outfielders at the moment, so none of this "especially when Rowand is batting". Plus okay even though he came up short, you know that there's nobody in that entire stadium that would've been possibly been trying any harder than Rowand was in that moment to make something happen.

Whose the better hitter?

Pujols > Rowand.

[lennon2324]

pujols. hands down

[ProudestAnt]

I would support this policy for sure. :thumbsup


Only problem would be if records were tied. You go to a tie-breaker of division record, just like with the playoffs...

[justink]

I just had a thought…

If Houston and Tim Purpura could somehow loosen the pockets enough to sign A-Rod to a 7 year deal at 20 mill a year… he would wreck shop at home and DEFINITELY have a shot at passing Aaron and bonds SOON!

I’d be down for that. It’s better than paying Clemens and petite all that money for not doing much.

-j

And I don’t know if a-rod is looking for a 7/20 mill deal, I just pulled that number out… my guess is he’s bluffing to get a huge paycheck from the Yanks.

[--Soma--]

Mets fire hitting coach, hire Ricky Henderson... YES


Now I just need proudest ant arguing with me about the technical aspects of Henderson's coaching skills. Should be gripping.

[DMBtheStoned]

Your always looking for an argument huh soma ?

[--Soma--]

No, but a good discussion is hard to come by. I'd rather argue than post in a chat thread where people talk about how their day is going etc.

PS I love you.

[ProudestAnt]

Now I just need proudest ant arguing with me about the technical aspects of Henderson's coaching skills. Should be gripping. :lol I got a kick out of that. It was a rough night, so thanks for the laugh...

[justink]

but in all seriousness...

henderson coaching? yeah, the guy was fast, but he hit like crap and lived off the chop grounder to 3rd/ss... but then it turned to a triple after he stole 2nd and 3rd, so it didnt' really matter... but still.

all i can think of when henderson is brought up is Nolan Ryan's 5000 K. saw it live!

-j

[~Crashintome89~]

Isn't he still playing in the minors? :lol

[--Soma--]

but in all seriousness...

henderson coaching? yeah, the guy was fast, but he hit like crap and lived off the chop grounder to 3rd/ss... but then it turned to a triple after he stole 2nd and 3rd, so it didnt' really matter... but still.

all i can think of when henderson is brought up is Nolan Ryan's 5000 K. saw it live!

-j

Thank god someone actually argued.

Now you can explain to me how the greatest leadoff hitter of all time "hit like crap." His lifetime on base percentage is .400.

[--Soma--]

Isn't he still playing in the minors? :lol

No. Please take your smileys and leave us all in peace.

[~Crashintome89~]

No. Please take your smileys and leave us all in peace.

Cory, chill the fuck out.

Now we know who can leadoff for the Mets if Jose Reyes gets injured. :lol

[--Soma--]

gosh that's funny

[justink]

Thank god someone actually argued.

Now you can explain to me how the greatest leadoff hitter of all time "hit like crap." His lifetime on base percentage is .400.

that's not exactly good... ;)

-j

[~Crashintome89~]

gosh that's funny

Cory, do us all a favor and get the sand out of your vagina.

[--Soma--]

that's not exactly good... ;)

-j


that's not exactly arguing! let's get mad!

[--Soma--]

Cory, do us all a favor and get the sand out of your vagina.

when you have something to add about the 2007 mlb season you can post here k

[~Crashintome89~]

when you have something to add about the 2007 mlb season you can post here k

You really can't read, can you?

[--Soma--]

you're right, Pujols > Rowand was insightful.

[~Crashintome89~]

you're right, Pujols > Rowand was insightful.

No, I'm talking about my paragraph about the Phillies, which you must have missed. :rolleyes

Anyways, if you want to talk baseball then lets talk baseball.

[--Soma--]

Yes, ~crashintome89~, let's.

[~Crashintome89~]

Yes, ~crashintome89~, let's.

Alright, douche--what do you want talk about?

[--Soma--]

the greatness of the dixie chicken outro

[~Crashintome89~]

the greatness of the dixie chicken outro

"when you have something to add about the 2007 mlb season you can post here k"

[UCFish]

Sitting back to watch.

[--Soma--]

Got Me Good!!!1!!

[justink]

that's not exactly arguing! let's get mad!

eff it! i'm in the fight, let's rumble!!! :bounce :multi :bounce :twak :banned :haha :p :monkey

-j

or something like that!

[--Soma--]

that's more like it

[ProudestAnt]

Here you go Soma:

Career: .279 AVG, .401 OBP, .419 SLG

WHY was this man a hitting coach?

[--Soma--]

um .400 career OBP and he's the best leadoff hitter in the history of baseball.

Have you checked the statistical qualifications of most major league hitting coaches? It's not a pretty picture.

[ProudestAnt]

um .400 career OBP and he's the best leadoff hitter in the history of baseball.

Have you checked the statistical qualifications of most major league hitting coaches? It's not a pretty picture. I agree that he's more qualified than most, I'm just arguing for the sake of argument. He was a slap hitter who could steal bases...

[--Soma--]

he's the alltime leader in leadoff homeruns.

[justink]

he's the alltime leader in leadoff homeruns.

only because he played 32 million seasons!!! and WAS ALWAYS lead off :)

-j

[~Crashintome89~]

Looking at his stats, the guy just barely got to 3,000 because he was able to play for so long. I wouldn't call him a fantastic hitter.

[ProudestAnt]

he's the alltime leader in leadoff homeruns. He is also 4th alltime in plate appearances with 13346. He played for 25 seasons and only hit 297 HRs, stop making him out to be more than he was...

[--Soma--]

No, he definitely hit for power... he hit up to 28 hrs in a season. I realize your heart isn't in this argument. Rickey Henderson was an AMAZING hitter. If you want a shot at this argument you should question his character. He's always been an ego-centric nutcase. However he did teach Reyes how to steal bases.

[~Crashintome89~]

No, he definitely hit for power... he hit up to 28 hrs in a season. I realize your heart isn't in this argument. Rickey Henderson was an AMAZING hitter. If you want a shot at this argument you should question his character. He's always been an ego-centric nutcase. However he did teach Reyes how to steal bases.

The guy's batting average wasn't even close to .300 in this decade.

In '99, he hit .315. Before then, he only hit over the .300 mark six times

[--Soma--]

Looking at his stats, the guy just barely got to 3,000 because he was able to play for so long. I wouldn't call him a fantastic hitter.

ok, name five better leadoff men in the history of baseball. And a .400 OBP is considered great for any player today, so to be able to pull that off over 20 plus years is amazing.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[--Soma--]

The guy's batting average wasn't even close to .300 in this decade.

He didn't playa full season this decade you stupid fuck he was obviously well past his prime. Look up his numbers from mid 80's through the 90's and get back to me.

[--Soma--]

The guy's batting average wasn't even close to .300 in this decade.

In '99, he hit .315. Before then, he only hit over the .300 mark six times.

And I realize you literally have no comprehension of this fact, but I'll say it anyway: the #1 goal of a leadoff hitter is to GET ON BASE. Do you know what on base percentage means?

[--Soma--]

good talk. you're right you're a fountain of knowledge mr. crashintome

[~Crashintome89~]

ok, name five better leadoff men in the history of baseball. And a .400 OBP is considered great for any player today, so to be able to pull that off over 20 plus years is amazing.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Whoa, I never disputed that he was the game's best leadoff hitter. I simply said that he wasn't a fantastic hitter.

[~Crashintome89~]

He didn't playa full season this decade you stupid fuck he was obviously well past his prime. Look up his numbers from mid 80's through the 90's and get back to me.

Yeah, and if he didn't play those seasons, he wouldn't have over 3,000 hits.

And I realize you literally have no comprehension of this fact, but I'll say it anyway: the #1 goal of a leadoff hitter is to GET ON BASE. Do you know what on base percentage means?

O RLY?!?!

[ProudestAnt]

No, he definitely hit for power... he hit up to 28 hrs in a season. I realize your heart isn't in this argument. Rickey Henderson was an AMAZING hitter. If you want a shot at this argument you should question his character. He's always been an ego-centric nutcase. However he did teach Reyes how to steal bases. Alright, I'm not denying at all that he's a hell of a base stealer and a hell of a baseball player. But let's be honest here. Hit for power? 25 seasons = 297 HRs, that's 11.88 HRs a seaon. That's not hitting for power. If you want to have him focus on teaching guys to do what he did best, make him a bench coach, not a hitting coach...

[--Soma--]

proudestant knows what's up.


But crashintome, you never told me any leadoff hitters all time better than henderson. You're arguing with me because you're a stubborn, half witten vagina bitch. The very fact that you're actually putting down Rickey as an all time great should be grounds for expulsion from this thread. Maybe you didn't start watching baseball till recently, but don't argue about things you're ignorant about.
The bored thread missed you. It's harmless there.

[~Crashintome89~]

But crashintome, you never told me any leadoff hitters all time better than henderson. You're arguing with me because you're a stubborn, half witten vagina bitch. The very fact that you're actually putting down Rickey as an all time great should be grounds for expulsion from this thread. Maybe you didn't start watching baseball till recently, but don't argue about things you're ignorant about.
The bored thread missed you. It's harmless there.

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showpost.php?p=6270113&postcount=3407

Learn how to fucking read.

[--Soma--]

So how would you describe the ability of the best leadoff hitter in the history of the game, since apparently 'fantastic' doesn't work for you?

[BotheDMBFan]

proudestant knows what's up.


But crashintome, you never told me any leadoff hitters all time better than henderson. You're arguing with me because you're a stubborn, half witten vagina bitch. The very fact that you're actually putting down Rickey as an all time great should be grounds for expulsion from this thread. Maybe you didn't start watching baseball till recently, but don't argue about things you're ignorant about.
The bored thread missed you. It's harmless there.

Why do you constantly rip on The Bored Thread?

It seems as though almost every thread you enter, you make it a point to rip on it.

[BotheDMBFan]

So how would you describe the ability of the best leadoff hitter in the history of the game, since apparently 'fantastic' doesn't work for you?

I know, I didn't quite understand that one either.

[~Crashintome89~]

So how would you describe the ability of the best leadoff hitter in the history of the game, since apparently 'fantastic' doesn't work for you?

A very good hitter with a good eye and awesome speed.

[~Crashintome89~]

I know, I didn't quite understand that one either.

Because there are/were better hitters than Rickey Henderson, but alas they didn't leadoff.

[--Soma--]

Because there are/were better hitters than Rickey Henderson, but alas they didn't leadoff.

you lack a basic understanding of what an ideal leadoff hitter should be.

am I saying rickey was better then ted williams? no. but I am saying henderson was the absolute ideal leadoff hitter and you still haven't listed anyone else who you feel is better.

[~Crashintome89~]

you lack a basic understanding of what an ideal leadoff hitter should be.

am I saying rickey was better then ted williams? no. but I am saying henderson was the absolute ideal leadoff hitter and you still haven't listed anyone else who you feel is better.

Are you fucking retarded? I just told you five minutes ago that there was no better leadoff hitter than Rickey Henderson. :twenty4

[BotheDMBFan]

Are you fucking retarded? I just told you five minutes ago that there was no better leadoff hitter than Rickey Henderson. :twenty4

Would this not make him a great hitter?

[--Soma--]

Are you fucking retarded? I just told you five minutes ago that there was no better leadoff hitter than Rickey Henderson. :twenty4

and yet you don't feel he was a fantastic hitter. do explain.

[--Soma--]

Why do you constantly rip on The Bored Thread?

It seems as though almost every thread you enter, you make it a point to rip on it.

if you want an explaination pm me :shrug

[~Crashintome89~]

Why do you constantly rip on The Bored Thread?

It seems as though almost every thread you enter, you make it a point to rip on it.

I don't know why either but he has ripped on Janet, Lisa, and generalized the bored thread as a bunch of ugly girls. :thumbsdow

[~Crashintome89~]

and yet you don't feel he was a fantastic hitter. do explain.

Season high in hits was only 179, plus he only has a career BA of .279. And he's not a home run hitter. The only reason he got to 3,000 hits was because he stuck around long enough.

There are plenty of hitters who have better numbers than he does.

[ProudestAnt]

and yet you don't feel he was a fantastic hitter. do explain. He was a fantastic LEADOFF hitter, but there's a huge difference between that and being a fantastic hitter. He did what a leadoff man should do. He worked counts, took pitches, walked a lot, and when he got the chance, put bat on ball and more times than not beat the throw to first because of his speed. He, much like Ichiro today, could always turn a single into a triple because of his speed. That's what a leadoff hitter does, gets on base and steals when he can. He was nothing more than a slap hitter with incredible speed. Is a slap hitter a great hitter? Most will argue no. Rickey was a great ball player and knew his role and performed it better than anyone else (perhaps Ichiro will take this title in time, but we'll see). But he was not a fantastic hitter (.279 BA proves that point). He was a fantastic leadoff guy who performed the job with textbook perfection. But again, .279 ERA and 11.88 HRs a season? You can't call him a fantastic hitter with those stats...

[--Soma--]

Are you now saying Ichiro isn't a fantastic hitter?
And the other thing is that just because players fill a role, does not mean they are limited to that role. Excelling as a leadoff man does not mean that he could not have been a hall of fame 3rd place hitter. He wasn't some 160 lb second baseman who could only slap the ball around.

[--Soma--]

Season high in hits was only 179, plus he only has a career BA of .279. And he's not a home run hitter. The only reason he got to 3,000 hits was because he stuck around long enough.

There are plenty of hitters who have better numbers than he does.

I think you've set a new personal record for having a discussion go completely over your head.

[--Soma--]

Is anyone still paying attention the yahoo league by the way? I can't find the thread about it.

[jdmpsu339]

When I hear the phrase "leadoff hitter", Rickey Henderson is the first thing that comes to mind.

He was a great hitter, his .401 OBP is 51st all time, ahead of these following players you may have heard of: Joe DiMaggio, Joe Morgan, Honus Wagner, and Frank Robinson just to name a few.

[crashintome202]

5 year for ichiro is a mistake. in a couple of years when he's declining, he'll lose his speed which will KILL his batting average. then you'll have a .290 singles hitter with no eye. yeah i want 20 million for that

[--Soma--]

yeah but he's an icon there... I think they realize he'll decline but he means a lot to the franchise and he's still playing as well as ever.

[Ascf33]

Is anyone still paying attention the yahoo league by the way? I can't find the thread about it.

I know that i am in a Ants yahoo league and I'm doing well. Not sure if its the same one tho.

[crashintome202]

yeah but he's an icon there... I think they realize he'll decline but he means a lot to the franchise and he's still playing as well as ever.
he'll be 34 at the end of october. so if you give him a deal in the offseason he'll be 39 at the end of it. that'll be a grim image watching a 38/39 year old ichiro try to run it out.

[--Soma--]

I'm pretty sure the Mariners are aware of his age. I'm saying it's not just about value for the money. They want him to retire a Mariner.

[~Crashintome89~]

I think you've set a new personal record for having a discussion go completely over your head.

I seriously don't know how you're not comprehending what I'm saying. Rickey Henderson was a great leadoff hitter, he got on-base. I am agreeing with you on that point.

However, as a hitter, there are PLENTY of hitters who have far better numbers than Rickey.

[--Soma--]

However, as a hitter, there are PLENTY of hitters who have far better numbers than Rickey.

Are you familiar with the term non sequitur?

[Trippin4136]

I just want it to be known that currently, the Yankees are currently tied for 3rd fewest runs allowed in the AL to date.

Red Sox - 350 runs
A's - 357 runs
Yankees / Angels - 389

[VanHorneDog]

When I hear the phrase "leadoff hitter", Rickey Henderson is the first thing that comes to mind.

He was a great hitter, his .401 OBP is 51st all time, ahead of these following players you may have heard of: Joe DiMaggio, Joe Morgan, Honus Wagner, and Frank Robinson just to name a few.

he is on my all padre team.


C: Mike Piazza
1B: Gary Sheifield
2B: Mark Loretta??? (we suck at second basemen)
SS: Ozzie Smith
3B: Ken Camineti
OF: Ricky Henderson
OF: Dave Winefield (i know i know)
OF: Tony Gwynn

[--Soma--]

Did you guys hear the actual story about what happened at the all star game.
Pujols had left the dugout and and was in the showers already, so he was unavailable.
LaRussa covered for him completely.

Pujols is a fucking douche.

[~Crashintome89~]

Did you guys hear the actual story about what happened at the all star game.
Pujols had left the dugout and and was in the showers already, so he was unavailable.
LaRussa covered for him completely.

Pujols is a fucking douche.

Link?

[Tiduwho]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2934920


Mark Cuban officially throws his hat in the ring for the Cubs...



I just really really hope that it doesn't go to Bud Selig's boy from the Brewers, John Canning.

[lennon2324]

Did you guys hear the actual story about what happened at the all star game.
Pujols had left the dugout and and was in the showers already, so he was unavailable.
LaRussa covered for him completely.

Pujols is a fucking douche.

didn't hear that....is there somewhere you read it??

[ProudestAnt]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2934920


Mark Cuban officially throws his hat in the ring for the Cubs...



I just really really hope that it doesn't go to Bud Selig's boy from the Brewers, John Canning. That would be the best thing that ever happened to the Cubs. Seriously...

[MistreatedLewis]

When I hear the phrase "leadoff hitter", Rickey Henderson is the first thing that comes to mind.

He was a great hitter, his .401 OBP is 51st all time, ahead of these following players you may have heard of: Joe DiMaggio, Joe Morgan, Honus Wagner, and Frank Robinson just to name a few.

Jose Reyes is NOW the first thing that comes to mine.

:)

[MistreatedLewis]

he is on my all padre team.


C: Mike Piazza
1B: Gary Sheifield
2B: Mark Loretta??? (we suck at second basemen)
SS: Ozzie Smith
3B: Ken Camineti
OF: Ricky Henderson
OF: Dave Winefield (i know i know)
OF: Tony Gwynn

Mike Piazza makes the all Padre team? I don't even think he makes my all Met team. :lol

Maybe he does, if he's willing to punch out the kid.

[crashintome202]

Did you guys hear the actual story about what happened at the all star game.
Pujols had left the dugout and and was in the showers already, so he was unavailable.
LaRussa covered for him completely.

Pujols is a fucking douche.
if i were pujols i would have keyed larussa car after what tony did to him.

[--Soma--]

didn't hear that....is there somewhere you read it??

Chris Russo reported it on Mike and the Maddog. He was there in SF, and that show doesn't ever throw around rumors or make things up.

[--Soma--]

Link?

http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d93/Row-shell/middle-finger.jpg



I'm very mature.

[--Soma--]

hoo boy wait till you hear gary sheffields comments

[~Crashintome89~]

Chris Russo reported it on Mike and the Maddog. He was there in SF, and that show doesn't ever throw around rumors or make things up.

Yes, cause Russo is an insane prick. :rolleyes

[--Soma--]

Yes, cause Russo is an insane prick. :rolleyes

This is why you should be banned from this thread. There isabsolutely no substance to anything you say.

Defend your point here. What has Chris Russo ever falsley reported? What rumors do Mike and the Maddog ever spread? Do you listen to the show? I LOVE arguing about sports, but fucktards like you just ruin everything because there's nothing behind anything you say. As usual, you're dumbing down this entire thread.

[~Crashintome89~]

. What has Chris Russo ever falsley reported?

That Albert Pujols was in the locker room during the bottom of the ninth, making him unavailable.

[--Soma--]

You inferred that Chris Russo and his program are not a reliable source, thus the Pujols story should not be believed. What is your evidence?

[~Crashintome89~]

You inferred that Chris Russo and his program are not a reliable source, thus the Pujols story should not be believed. What is your evidence?

The evidence is that if this did happen, there would be more than one source. I mean hell, Chris could be right, and I don't have anything against him and share many of the same views as him--but his smash mouth rants are ridiculous; just like Stephen A. Smith.

[Trippin4136]

This is why you should be banned from this thread. There isabsolutely no substance to anything you say.

Defend your point here. What has Chris Russo ever falsley reported? What rumors do Mike and the Maddog ever spread? Do you listen to the show? I LOVE arguing about sports, but fucktards like you just ruin everything because there's nothing behind anything you say. As usual, you're dumbing down this entire thread.

You really think Mike and the Mad Dog are such a top reliable source out there? They do no investigative reporting of their own, and jeez, talk about two bags of hot air.

[junior94]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2935737

:lol :lol :lol

Does Sheffield even comprehend how much of a moron he sounds like in this piece?? This guy has always come across to me in his career like he's got a giant chip on his shoulder, and he believes the world owes him something. Such a dick.


"In a million years, I don't care what anybody says, steroids is something you shoot in your butt. I do know that ... The bottom line is steroids is something you stick in your butt -- period."


Okay... ? :confused What the fuck does that even mean?? What's he saying? :lol

The bottom line I feel with this whole "I didn't know they were steroids" with any player, not just him, is that if you're at the level of a professional baseball player, especially one of the more premiere players in the game, you obviously don't have the average human's body. Your body's virtually like a machine, it's in great shape, etc etc. And I'm sorry but I don't buy it for one second, when you're at that level, anything past taking a fucking everday aspirin, you're not putting it in your body unless you know EXACTLY what it is, what it's comprised of, what it does, etc. So this whole acting ignorant thing is horseshit.



Sheffield reportedly began the interview by saying: "I tell myself every offseason I'm not going to say anything crazy. I'm just going to have a peaceful season ... Can't do it. I'm cut from a different cloth."


Yea, it's called being a jackass cloth. :p

[--Soma--]

Outspoken opinions and unreliable news sources are two very different things. Their reputation is built on being trustworthy. They're not some ESPN radio bullshit show.
And since you and captain fairydust are so certain that they're unreliable, why can't you name a single time they've falsely reported something?

[~Crashintome89~]

Outspoken opinions and unreliable news sources are two very different things. Their reputation is built on being trustworthy. They're not some ESPN radio bullshit show.
And since you and captain fairydust are so certain that they're unreliable, why can't you name a single time they've falsely reported something?

We just did.

They also criticized Roger Nielson for his laid back style of coaching--yeah they know their stuff. :rolleyes

[~Crashintome89~]

Also, an update on the Henderson job:

He's a first base coach, not a hitting coach--which seems to make a lot more sense.

[justink]

NEWS FLASH!

Boston has it wraped up.

my prediction is Brewers v. Red Sox, 5 games, Sox.

-j

[~Crashintome89~]

Fucking Kyle Kendrick is the man, he's 4-0--and has helped the Phillies out so much with a bunch of quality starts. Freddy Garcia ain't got shit on him.

[--Soma--]

We just did.

They also criticized Roger Nielson for his laid back style of coaching--yeah they know their stuff. :rolleyes

1. Just because a story wasn't widely reported doesn't make it false.

2. As usual you missed the point. The concept I was talking about is that Mike and the Maddog have a great deal of EXISTING credibility. This gives one reason to trust their information. Russo is close with the Giants organization and was in the building.

3. Even if this story was false, it still has nothing to do with what I said. They have a track record.

[Ev42]

NEWS FLASH!

Boston has it wraped up.

my prediction is Brewers v. Red Sox, 5 games, Sox.

-j

no way brewers are making it to the ws no way

[--Soma--]

I want to say the Brewers will fold but christ that division sucks.

[DmBand801]

I want to say the Brewers will fold but christ that division sucks.

even if they don't fold, they couldn't beat the Padres, Dodgers or Mets to get out of the NL

[--Soma--]

If the Cardinals could do it, the Brewers can. Baseball playoffs are flukey.

[DMBCubs25]

NEWS FLASH!

Boston has it wraped up.

my prediction is Brewers v. Red Sox, 5 games, Sox.

-j

hahaha, no fuckign way brewers even make it to the playoffs, that team is starting to fold like no other, there only offense is braun/fielder, u get those two out and theres no one that good, if i had to guess the ws it will probably be something along the lines of padres/mets vs. red sox/tigers

[ProudestAnt]

I thinkn the Cubs can make a run. If my daddy starts hitting, I think they can do some damage with their pitching. Just a little bit more offense and they'll take that division...

[Tiduwho]

I thinkn the Cubs can make a run. If my daddy starts hitting, I think they can do some damage with their pitching. Just a little bit more offense and they'll take that division...


Yeah, the problem has been my MVP's lack of power hitting (good problem to have though). He said that he's not doing anything different, and is a bit confused himself why nothing is going out of the park. As long as he keeps hitting .330 and knocking in guys when it matters he'll be fine though. He's got a lot of doubles.

If only they could get a solid leadoff hitter and bat Soriano 2nd or 5th. He hates not leading off for some reason though. I wouldn't mind renting Kenny Lofton again.


The problem with the Brewers has been JJ Hardy's absolute freefall. He went from putting up MVP stats the first two months to very average. Ryan Braun has taken over nicely, but Bill Hall is gone for 6 weeks, Ricky Weeks has been beaten up, and Capuano isn't his usual self since the injury.

[~Crashintome89~]

1. Just because a story wasn't widely reported doesn't make it false.

2. As usual you missed the point. The concept I was talking about is that Mike and the Maddog have a great deal of EXISTING credibility. This gives one reason to trust their information. Russo is close with the Giants organization and was in the building.

3. Even if this story was false, it still has nothing to do with what I said. They have a track record.

1. If this was true, it would have been widely reported. One radio host who happens to flip out alot, and change his stance, is not credible, in my opinion.

2. What existing credibility? What stories have they broke? All I see them as two knuckleheads, who one of them takes every shot he can at the Yankees.

3. If this story is false, it has everything to do with what you said. Their exisiting credibility would be shot. They just reported a false thing. :rolleyes

[VanHorneDog]

hahaha, no fuckign way brewers even make it to the playoffs, that team is starting to fold like no other, there only offense is braun/fielder, u get those two out and theres no one that good, if i had to guess the ws it will probably be something along the lines of padres/mets vs. red sox/tigers

repeat of the 1984 world sereies....

time for some revenge me thinks. :violent

[groton]

repeat of the 1984 world sereies....

time for some revenge me thinks. :violent

could be Repeat of the 86 WS
Time for Revenge also

or My Number one Team the Sox vs the Team I Adopted when i lived on the West Coast the Padre's

[Tiduwho]

What would you rather have? A high paid pitcher that doesn't pitch period, or a comically high-paid pitcher that pitches and gets rocked by the Devil Rays?


Well the Yanks have both. :lol

[VanHorneDog]

could be Repeat of the 86 WS
Time for Revenge also

or My Number one Team the Sox vs the Team I Adopted when i lived on the West Coast the Padre's


padres need it more.

[hearmorphish]

i also think the red sox have the AL. as for the NL, to be honest i'm afraid of the pads and the dodgers, but i think we'll be there.

[--Soma--]

1. If this was true, it would have been widely reported. One radio host who happens to flip out alot, and change his stance, is not credible, in my opinion.

2. What existing credibility? What stories have they broke? All I see them as two knuckleheads, who one of them takes every shot he can at the Yankees.

3. If this story is false, it has everything to do with what you said. Their exisiting credibility would be shot. They just reported a false thing. :rolleyes

Once again you are literally incapable of understanding a simple argument. But, like most stupid people, you still fly off the handle and continue to beat a dead horse, when you've completely missed the point. I think it's time to let this argument go.

I think it's best for my sanity if I put you on ignore. You're the most worthless peice of shit here. You're an effeminate, idiotic, and inane jackass.

You're such a fucktard Jake took away your ability to even make new threads long ago. I can't believe you were actually so incapable of making threads that you are no longer allowed to. I don't think anyone else but you has lost that priviledge.

There are people here who are stupid, people who are assholes, and people who never post anything of substance, and that's fine. You however are all those things rolled into one, which is truly incredible. I look forward to never reading anything from you again. Everyone else should be so lucky.

[~Crashintome89~]

Once again you are literally incapable of understanding a simple argument. But, like most stupid people, you still fly off the handle and continue to beat a dead horse, when you've completely missed the point. I think it's time to let this argument go.

I think it's best for my sanity if I put you on ignore. You're the most worthless peice of shit here. You're an effeminate, idiotic, and inane jackass.

You're such a fucktard Jake took away your ability to even make new threads long ago. I can't believe you were actually so incapable of making threads that you are no longer allowed to. I don't think anyone else but you has lost that priviledge.

There are people here who are stupid, people who are assholes, and people who never post anything of substance, and that's fine. You however are all those things rolled into one, which is truly incredible. I look forward to never reading anything from you again. Everyone else should be so lucky.

Last time I checked, this was a baseball thread--let's keep it that way.

EDIT: This post warrants a report, which I did.

[Trippin4136]

Can I just interject in this little squabble and say how HORRENDOUS ESPN's baseball coverage has become?

Baseball Tonight takes an unquoted, possibly fabricated, piece from the NY Newsday, which in it's own right is glorified toilet paper, mentioning that Boston wants A-Rod and runs with it. Not only do they run with it, but they proceed to go on a 10 minute rant, full with highlights, of A-Rod in Boston. It's just laughable at this point.

Lastly, Fernando Vina is TERRIBLE. AWFUL. He has no business being on the air. The guy can't spit out a sentence without stuttering.

[proudestmnky]

^^ i agree. so fucking stupid. then they showed: upcoming on sportscenter, arod to boston? baseball tonight was one of the only things i still liked on espn, and now that too has gotten worse.

[ProudestAnt]

The entire idea of A-Rod coming to Boston is a joke. Not gonna happen...

[cwsrule88]

seriously i nominate the white sox bullpen as being the worst all time, another blown game... to the orioles


we suck

[ProudestAnt]

seriously i nominate the white sox bullpen as being the worst all time, another blown game... to the orioles


we suck This guy knows what's up...

[cwsrule88]

and the worst part is we cant do anything about it to fix it :thumbsdow

[~Crashintome89~]

The entire idea of A-Rod coming to Boston is a joke. Not gonna happen...

I can't picture A-Rid in a Boston uniform, nor can I picture the Red Sox dishing out that kind of money for him.

[Bron Yr Aur]

Yeah, the problem has been my MVP's lack of power hitting (good problem to have though). He said that he's not doing anything different, and is a bit confused himself why nothing is going out of the park. As long as he keeps hitting .330 and knocking in guys when it matters he'll be fine though. He's got a lot of doubles.

If only they could get a solid leadoff hitter and bat Soriano 2nd or 5th. He hates not leading off for some reason though. I wouldn't mind renting Kenny Lofton again.


The problem with the Brewers has been JJ Hardy's absolute freefall. He went from putting up MVP stats the first two months to very average. Ryan Braun has taken over nicely, but Bill Hall is gone for 6 weeks, Ricky Weeks has been beaten up, and Capuano isn't his usual self since the injury.

Alfonso strikes out a lot, but Kenny Lofton?? I mean, as long as Alfonso hits about .300 and doesn't strike out TOO much, he's fine leading off. He's been getting on base early in the ball game A LOT lately, and has scored a lot of runs in that spot. I don't like his power there, but he's proven he can get on base and is aggressive on the basepaths.

Brewers are still the team to beat in the Central, but if they do hold off the Cubs and take it, I don't see them making a postseason run. Yeah, anything can happen, though. BUT, San Diego (if they make it) has the pitching, and LA seems to be a very good team as well. I definitely don't buy the Mets, though....they have been tailing off a bit like Milwaukee.

[Ev42]

seriously i nominate the white sox bullpen as being the worst all time, another blown game... to the orioles


we suck

did you catch hawks god dammit:lol . man that guy is funny mofo. kinda like Ron Santo lives and dies with his team

[hearmorphish]

I can't picture A-Rid in a Boston uniform, nor can I picture the Red Sox dishing out that kind of money for him.
i could see both.

[DmBand801]

I can't picture A-Rid in a Boston uniform, nor can I picture the Red Sox dishing out that kind of money for him.

i can see boston dishing out the money...i can't see A-Rod going there though

[DmBand801]

seriously i nominate the white sox bullpen as being the worst all time, another blown game... to the orioles


we suck

i was at the game on friday - buerhle pitched very very well but the sox offense couldn't get to Chris Ray or Bedard when they had the chance....i also nearly caught patterson's home run in the right field bleachers after it hit the seats behind me and popped up in the air.

[Trippin4136]

Think about this. With the Phillies 10,000th franchise loss, that means they have lost 100 games a season for 100 years, including all those seasons in which they didn't play 162 games.

100 losses a season for 100 years!!! Am I the only one blown away by this?

[BotheDMBFan]

They've been around a bit longer than 100 years though, haven't they?

[Trippin4136]

They've been around a bit longer than 100 years though, haven't they?

Since 1883, but still, it still averages out to 100 losses over 100 years.

[crashintome202]

Think about this. With the Phillies 10,000th franchise loss, that means they have lost 100 games a season for 100 years, including all those seasons in which they didn't play 162 games.

100 losses a season for 100 years!!! Am I the only one blown away by this?
the phillies have eaten alot of shit over the years

[VanHorneDog]

padres 4-0 winners over the d'backs puts them with 13 shutouts this season. which is 5 more than any other team in baseball. our 3.13 team ERA is overa half a run better than any other team in baseball.

too bad we cant hit!!!! fucking pujols.

[Trippin4136]

I saw a stat recently that said the Padres could be like the first team in 60 something years to score less than 550 runs in a season, and make the postseason.

Somehow, they get it done. 13 shutouts at about 90 games is pretty damn good.

[VanHorneDog]

I saw a stat recently that said the Padres could be like the first team in 60 something years to score less than 550 runs in a season, and make the postseason.

Somehow, they get it done. 13 shutouts at about 90 games is pretty damn good.

well, we have a lot of "least amount of ________ and still got into the playoffs" in recent years.

:lol

EDIT: fucking pujols

[MistreatedLewis]

i can see boston dishing out the money...i can't see A-Rod going there though

I only see him going there if they blow him away with an offer.

[VanHorneDog]

I only see him going there if they blow him.

thats probably the one thing steinburner (SP?) wouldnt do.

[MistreatedLewis]

thats probably the one thing steinburner (SP?) wouldnt do.

I don't know... the boss probably has false teeth by now, so the gumjob might get him the home town discount the would like.

[crashintome202]

I saw a stat recently that said the Padres could be like the first team in 60 something years to score less than 550 runs in a season, and make the postseason.

Somehow, they get it done. 13 shutouts at about 90 games is pretty damn good.
that divison is loaded with great pitching and average hitting

[VanHorneDog]

that divison is loaded with great pitching and average hitting

true story. although a good question would be does the great pitching make the average hitters or does the average hitters make the great pitching?

here are the 13 shutouts for the pads so far by team.

7-0 vs SF
1-0 vs SF
4-0 vs SF
3-0 vs WSH
7-0 vs STL
3-0 vs STL
3-0 vs MIL
9-0 vs PIT
1-0 vs LA
9-0 vs TB
1-0 vs CHC (where D Lee and C Young got tossed for fighting)
1-0 vs FLA
4-0 vs ARI

four 1-0 wins. i didnt know that. wowza.