Questions and Answers (2007 Tour)

[PantalaNagaMan]

This thread is dedicated to any last minute questions anyone has. I am going to be gone for about 10 minutes, and then I will come back and post a bunch of information everyone should read and know.

Hope you guys are getting excited!

Jantz

[nieds05]

Could you post the song list again, I know you added some songs on it when you put the list on your site, but the site is not loading for me

[Minarets#40]

Group A
So Much To Say
Too Much
The Idea Of You
Crash Into Me
Hunger For The Great Light
Louisiana Bayou
Everyday
Pantala Naga Pampa - Rapunzel
Stay
Ants Marching

Group B
Jimi Thing
Sister
Can't Stop
So Damn Lucky
Gravedigger
What Would You Say
Warehouse
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink The Water
American Baby Intro
You Might Die Trying
Where Are You Going
Crush
Dreamgirl
Grey Street
JTR
One Sweet World
Break Free
Pig
Proudest Monkey
Satellite
Smooth Rider
Tripping Billies

Group C
#41
All Along The Watchtower
American Baby
Bartender
The Best Of What's Around
Big Eyed Fish
Butterfly
Digging A Ditch
The Dreaming Tree
Drive In Drive Out
Grace Is Gone
Granny
Help Myself - this may be moved - I'll post an update if it is moved
If I Had It All
Joy Ride
Kill The King
The Last Stop
Lie In Our Graves
Lover Lay Down
Loving Wings
Pay For What You Get
Raven
Rhyme and Reason
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Shotgun
Sleep To Dream Her
So Right
Typical Situation
The Song That Jane Likes
Steady As We Go
Stolen Away on 55th and 3rd
The Stone
Two Step
What You Are
When The World Ends
The Maker
Down By The River
Cover Song

Group D
#34
#40
Angel
Everybody Wake Up
Hello Again
Old Dirt Hill
Stand Up
Out Of My Hands
Christmas Song
I'll Back You Up
Recently
Minarets
Busted Stuff
Captain
Dreams of Our Fathers
Mother Father
I Did It
The Space Between
Fool To Think
Cry Freedom
Let You Down
Kit Kat Jam
Halloween
Spoon
Dodo
Some Devil
Grey Blue Eyes
Trouble
Save Me
Stay or Leave
An' Another Thing
Oh
Baby
Up and Away

[nieds05]

thanks

[laststraw41]

How/where exactly will the drafts themselves be held?

[crashintonickdm]

im taking a HUUUUge risk with my first pick but i think it could pay off.

[crashintonickdm]

How/where exactly will the drafts themselves be held?

they are trying to do AIM. heres my idea.

the person who is moddin the league makes a chat room, and then u invite the 1 person up whosever turn it is, and then when they pick they exit and the mod invites the next person.


just an idea.

[PantalaNagaMan]

How/where exactly will the drafts themselves be held?

In the league threads.

[PantalaNagaMan]

Group A
So Much To Say
Too Much
The Idea Of You
Crash Into Me
Hunger For The Great Light
Louisiana Bayou
Everyday
Pantala Naga Pampa - Rapunzel
Stay
Ants Marching

Group B
Cover Song (Covers any cover song on tour)
Jimi Thing
Sister
Can't Stop
So Damn Lucky
Gravedigger
What Would You Say
Warehouse
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink The Water
American Baby Intro
You Might Die Trying
Where Are You Going
Crush
Dreamgirl
Grey Street
JTR
One Sweet World
Break Free
Pig
Proudest Monkey
Satellite
Smooth Rider
Tripping Billies

Group C
#41
All Along The Watchtower
American Baby
Bartender
The Best Of What's Around
Big Eyed Fish
Butterfly
Digging A Ditch
The Dreaming Tree
Drive In Drive Out
Grace Is Gone
Granny
Help Myself
If I Had It All
Joy Ride
Kill The King
The Last Stop
Lie In Our Graves
Lover Lay Down
Loving Wings
Pay For What You Get
Raven
Rhyme and Reason
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Shotgun
Sleep To Dream Her
So Right
Typical Situation
The Song That Jane Likes
Steady As We Go
Stolen Away on 55th and 3rd
The Stone
Two Step
What You Are
When The World Ends
The Maker
Down By The River

Group D
#34
#40
Angel
Everybody Wake Up
Hello Again
Old Dirt Hill
Stand Up
Out Of My Hands
Christmas Song
I'll Back You Up
Recently
Minarets
Busted Stuff
Captain
Dreams of Our Fathers
Mother Father
I Did It
The Space Between
Fool To Think
Cry Freedom
Let You Down
Kit Kat Jam
Halloween
Spoon
Dodo
Some Devil
Grey Blue Eyes
Trouble
Save Me
Stay or Leave
An' Another Thing
Oh
Baby
Up and Away

[TheGoodGoodTime]

In the league threads.good. I think it will be way smoother this way. I hate AIM chat rooms, and would much rather do this in the threads.

[bradshaw06]

How/where exactly will the drafts themselves be held?

the sweet up and down draft will be in the sweet up and down thread

[TheGoodGoodTime]

im taking a HUUUUge risk with my first pick but i think it could pay off.
haha me too.

[crashintonickdm]

good. I think it will be way smoother this way. I hate AIM chat rooms, and would much rather do this in the threads.

AIM chat room would be just as easy.

[TheGoodGoodTime]

AIM chat room would be just as easy.
well....im on a Mac and I use Adium so Im not even sure if I can get into AOL chatrooms.

[Minarets#40]

well....im on a Mac and I use Adium so Im not even sure if I can get into AOL chatrooms.
I'm sure if you can't get on AIM your mod won't make the draft on AIM (wait... I'm your mod right?)

[laststraw41]

the sweet up and down draft will be in the sweet up and down thread

:thumbsup Soudns good. The draft loops with rounds right? So that 10th pick would pick first in the 2nd round?

[nlowe]

How are we doing the pick order?

[Minarets#40]

link in my sig...

it explains the whole draft order... and your mod will lead you through it

[symbian]

Do you want to use my site for it? That way we dont have all these ads and sh!t. I can also put up a forum, but someone will have to design it (after the base php app is up)

[Minarets#40]

Do you want to use my site for it? That way we dont have all these ads and sh!t. I can also put up a forum, but someone will have to design it (after the base php app is up)
PM Jantz (PantalaNagaMan) and ask him about that... he's running the website

thanks :thumbsup

[nieds05]

Ugh, not feeling too hot about my picks :lol

[Minarets#40]

hahaha... my picks are perfect...

[PantalaNagaMan]

Just some information for everybody! :)

The draft is tonight, be ready. If you can't make it, don't complain about your picks...we're going to be completely fair.

Scoring seems to be a question.

The highest you can get for a song on any night is 5...That's if Group D is played. Say Two Step is played, and it closes. You do not get the 3 point for the play and the four points for the spot....You get 4 points, for Two Step closing.

The new grouping of songs has Help Myself added to Group C, Jimi Thing added to group B, and "Cover Songs" added to group B. Cover Songs are a blanket, that can be used for ANY cover song during the course of a tour.

Which leads me to my next statement: (Still Water) does not count as an opener. You don't come home from a show saying, "Fucking right...I got a (Still Water) opener into Don't Drink The Water"...It's just an intro that probably won't be around forever....So Don't Drink The Water is the official opener in that bunch.

When drafting tonight, TRY, TRY, TRY to keep discussion to a minimum while someone is picking...Just so it doesn't confuse anybody.

There are absolutely no trades in this game. The only moves your allowed is picking up and dropping songs during a tour...Which your allowed to do five times. But remember, once you drop a song...you can never pick that song back up.

Let's keep this fun and make it interesting so it sticks around for a while! :)

Hope everyones excited.

Jantz

[symbian]

how do u know what your picks are? Dont you have to wait until the round starts?

[symbian]

so can only one person have cover???

[Minarets#40]

so can only one person have cover???
yes, but notice that The Maker, Down By the River, and All Along the Watchtower are all individual songs, so they don't count toward Cover Song

your mod will lead you through the draft. it should be pretty easy to keep track

[crashintonickdm]

are the draft times still the same?

[Sutmaster6]

are the draft times still the same?

Yeah, is there a master list of the draft times, and are we allowed to watch other drafts before our own?

[PantalaNagaMan]

yes, but notice that The Maker, Down By the River, and All Along the Watchtower are all individual songs, so they don't count toward Cover Song

your mod will lead you through the draft. it should be pretty easy to keep track

This is why I notioned to take Covers into group B...because its COVERS all of those. If someone has the balls to just pick one cover, they should be worth more points.

[symbian]

So you can take covers, and it covers all covers?

[Minarets#40]

So you can take covers, and it covers all covers?
cover songs = any cover song other than Watchtower, Down by the river, and the maker

[Minarets#40]

Yeah, is there a master list of the draft times, and are we allowed to watch other drafts before our own?
first post in the "Absolute final rosters" thread - but I know at least one league changed their time

and yeah, you can watch other leagues

[nieds05]

cover songs = any cover song other than Watchtower, Down by the river, and the maker

I understood it as any cover, no matter what, that is why it is less points

[bradshaw06]

the mods should have all sent pms about the new draft times if they changed. i know busted stuff is now at 10 est, and suad is at 10 30 est

[symbian]

So can only one person take covers?

[Minarets#40]

So can only one person take covers?
yes, everything that's on that list, only one person can take

"Cover Songs" is just like another song for the purposes of this draft

[nieds05]

So can only one person take covers?

Yeah, but other people could take the individual covers, like Watchtower, Maker or DBTR

[PantalaNagaMan]

This is where the confusion comes in...

Cover Songs - if picked includes EVERYTHING but songs listed (AATW, Maker, etc. etc.) Because covers can be played more than once in a show...it isn't fair.

[Minarets#40]

^^ "Cover Song" can only be played once per show, so if more than one is played, you only get credit for one

[taparoo]

Okay, so Cover Songs include all cover songs but the cover songs included in the list (AATW, Maker, River, etc), correct?

[Minarets#40]

yep.

[taparoo]

yep.
alrighty, gracias

[DustyKeys70]

Some times have changed??? Bartender still at 9 est?

[taparoo]

Some times have changed??? Bartender still at 9 est?
last I heard, yes

[Minarets#40]

if your mod has not PMed you about a time change, your draft is still at the same time

[maya]

has there been any official ruling about trades between players?

[PantalaNagaMan]

has there been any official ruling about trades between players?

I was just going to address this! :)

Players cannot trade songs between players.

They can only pick up songs from the free song pool and drop songs of their own.

And I have spoken! ;)

Jantz

[maya]

I was just going to address this! :)

Players cannot trade songs between players.

They can only pick up songs from the free song pool and drop songs of their own.

And I have spoken! ;)

Jantz

Great minds and such :)

Good. i think that trading between players should totally be outlawed :D

[PantalaNagaMan]

Great minds and such :)

Good. i think that trading between players should totally be outlawed :D

Don't know where people got the idea from, but you draft what you draft....And I've made it clear that the only moves should be picking up and dropping.

:)

Your a good listener my dear.

[maya]

Your a good listener my dear.

Rofl. Gotta listen good. If you don't your mamma whacks you with a spoon :)

[PantalaNagaMan]

Rofl. Gotta listen good. If you don't your mamma whacks you with a spoon :)

"Momma gonna whoop you in the morning, SHIT
Momma gonna whoop you in the evening, GOOD
You know what you did there..."

---> Go into the 4/22 version of Corn Bread.

I love that shit! :)

[Minarets#40]

maya... i have no real reason to say this, but i get the impression that you're somewhat good looking...

[PantalaNagaMan]

NEW RULE

There CAN be trading between teams from 7/3 untill midnight 7/7.

All must be cleared through the Leagues moderator and MYSELF.

After 7/7, there will be absolutely no trading through teams, only picking up and dropping.


Also, on a side note - Live Earth does NOT count for this game, as it seems to be just a short set fesitval - the official start will be Toyota Park.

[maya]

"Momma gonna whoop you in the morning, SHIT
Momma gonna whoop you in the evening, GOOD
You know what you did there..."

---> Go into the 4/22 version of Corn Bread.

I love that shit! :)

hahahah. oh my god. If i ever heard a song that gave me any more pleasure its that song!

[maya]

maya... i have no real reason to say this, but i get the impression that you're somewhat good looking...

The crazy ones always are........ *primps hair*

[maya]

Aww shucks, you gonna give a girl a big giant head

[bradshaw06]

NEW RULE

There CAN be trading between teams from 7/3 untill midnight 7/7.

All must be cleared through the Leagues moderator and MYSELF.

After 7/7, there will be absolutely no trading through teams, only picking up and dropping.


Also, on a side note - Live Earth does NOT count for this game, as it seems to be just a short set fesitval - the official start will be Toyota Park.

i will relay the message to my league; altough i have already stated that no dropping or trading can happen until 7/5 for the suad league.

[trpnwillie]

How did we go from absolutely no trading whatsoever to now having a 5-day trading period within 41 minutes? IMO, trading could easily be maintained throughout the whole tour...

And, just out of curiosity (no disrespect meant, so please don't take it that way): why do all trades and add/drops have to be cleared through you, Jantz? If that's the case, the mods have done their job with the drafts and you can just take over from here?

[PantalaNagaMan]

The mods of each league have the final say...I just like to keep up to date with what's going on so I can write it in my notebook...

[PantalaNagaMan]

How did we go from absolutely no trading whatsoever to now having a 5-day trading period within 41 minutes? IMO, trading could easily be maintained throughout the whole tour...

There should be no reason to trade during the regular season, the maintaining isn't the case. Also it happened so quickly because I conversed with several of my mods over what would be the best benefactor.

[trpnwillie]

The mods of each league have the final say...I just like to keep up to date with what's going on so I can write it in my notebook...

Alright, cool. :thumbsup

There should be no reason to trade during the regular season, the maintaining isn't the case. Also it happened so quickly because I conversed with several of my mods over what would be the best benefactor.

Ok. I was just wondering why trades wouldn't be allowed. It's your baby, do whatever suits you! I myself wouldn't mind to see trades permitted. Maybe next year if need be...

[maya]

Alright, cool. :thumbsup



Ok. I was just wondering why trades wouldn't be allowed. It's your baby, do whatever suits you! I myself wouldn't mind to see trades permitted. Maybe next year if need be...

I think its just hard at the moment, because rules are made up on the fly. Which isnt' a bad thing. Just means that next year Jantz can take all the good things and all the bad things and make it better

[taparoo]

What group of songs was Help Myself in? I forgot which thread the updated song list was in...

[maya]

What group of songs was Help Myself in? I forgot which thread the updated song list was in...

I want to say Group B.... but for the life of me i can't remember either :D

[bradshaw06]

What group of songs was Help Myself in? I forgot which thread the updated song list was in...

to add to that what group is you never know in?

[Minarets#40]

Help Myself is in group C, YNK is in group D

[taparoo]

Help Myself is in group C, YNK is in group D
awesome, thanks.

[maya]

QUESTION
(i don't know whether this has been asked. If it has, then i'm a stupid girl and could you please repeat it)

How long is a cover song played until it gets its own song choice in the pool?

[Gonzo#34]

perhaps this has been asked and i know its too late but why wasn't there a choice for "New song?" It would be a risk but im sure it would pay off as a pool B song.

[Minarets#40]

QUESTION
(i don't know whether this has been asked. If it has, then i'm a stupid girl and could you please repeat it)

How long is a cover song played until it gets its own song choice in the pool?
I think for this tour Cover Song will be used for any cover songs not included in the list. Probably if one gets a lot of play time it'll be added in for future tours.

[maya]

I think for this tour Cover Song will be used for any cover songs not included in the list. Probably if one gets a lot of play time it'll be added in for future tours.

woohoo!

[The ConMan 3000]

I am really confused with the website... Is there something i should be clicking on or is it just the one page with the Boyd picture?

[taparoo]

I am really confused with the website... Is there something i should be clicking on or is it just the one page with the Boyd picture?
it's under construction

you can check out the new look here though
http://www.geocities.com/davefan2086/home2.html

[The ConMan 3000]

Oh cool. Thanks a lot!
& it looks good!

[PantalaNagaMan]

SOME NEW RULINGS TO PAY ATTENTION TO

1. Still Water - Counts as your "Cover Song" category...and if opens, will ALSO recieve opener points along with Don't Drink The Water.

b.) If you have "Cover Song" and "Don't Drink The Water" - you may only recieve the opener points for one of them.

2. All player to player song trading must be done by the start of the tour on 8/1.

3. As for the new song, and new songs to come in the future, because we are unable to understand how often it will be played, and how many points it can recieve, we are not able to offer those songs currently untill discussions cease.

Jantz.

[bradshaw06]

SOME NEW RULINGS TO PAY ATTENTION TO

1. Still Water - Counts as your "Cover Song" category...and if opens, will ALSO recieve opener points along with Don't Drink The Water.

b.) If you have "Cover Song" and "Don't Drink The Water" - you may only recieve the opener points for one of them.

2. All player to player song trading must be done by the start of the tour on 8/1.

3. As for the new song, and new songs to come in the future, because we are unable to understand how often it will be played, and how many points it can recieve, we are not able to offer those songs currently untill discussions cease.

Jantz.

so if one player has ddtw and another still water and they open, both players get points?

[PantalaNagaMan]

so if one player has ddtw and another still water and they open, both players get points?

Yes...but in your scenario where you have DDTW and Cover Song, you recieve the 3 points for DDTW and the 2 points for Cover Song.

[bradshaw06]

Yes...but in your scenario where you have DDTW and Cover Song, you recieve the 3 points for DDTW and the 2 points for Cover Song.

o yea i understood that, just making sure for when i score the suad league i do it right.

[crashintonickdm]

so is anyone gonna make that league website or is it gonna sit the way it is forever?

[PantalaNagaMan]

so is anyone gonna make that league website or is it gonna sit the way it is forever?


I have two jobs, I am taking two summer classes so I can get my associates, and I am getting ready to move in a month to go away to college.

I'm trying my best.

I've made a lot of progress and it will be done by tommorow night.

[taparoo]

Awesome. Really appreciate the hard work, Jantz. :thumbsup

[laststraw41]

Any word on SUAD's section on the site(which, might I add, looks wonderful, aside from missing SUAD :lol)?

[maya]

Any word on SUAD's section on the site(which, might I add, looks wonderful, aside from missing SUAD :lol)?

Soon enough, young jedi..... soon enough.

[taparoo]

I forgot the official ruling on Still Water. Not counting it no matter what, right?

[Minarets#40]

I forgot the official ruling on Still Water. Not counting it no matter what, right?
it counts as a Cover Song if the official page lists it as one, but it can't earn opener points if it transitions into DDTW

[taparoo]

it counts as a Cover Song if the official page lists it as one, but it can't earn opener points if it transitions into DDTW
So if it's listed on the page it counts? And what official page are we going by - WH? dmband.com?

[Minarets#40]

So if it's listed on the page it counts? And what official page are we going by - WH? dmband.com?
those are the same... it's the same people just updating both.

the almanac is a different source, but we're going by the road page

[taparoo]

those are the same... it's the same people just updating both.

the almanac is a different source, but we're going by the road page
oh yeah, duh. thanks

[taparoo]

one more question: Spotted means opener, set closer, or show closer right?

[Minarets#40]

one more question: Spotted means opener, set closer, or show closer right?
that and only that, correct

[taparoo]

Gracias, Master John.

[maya]

Gracias, Master John.

see its fun to call him master :lol

[leesDREAMNGTREE]

When the hell did we start keeping score? Is the originall idea thread the only place the points system is located?

[taparoo]

So if somebody requests to drop/pick up a song and one of the head mods approves it (John/Jantz) but your league's mod doesn't get around to approving it before the next show, is the trade valid?

[Minarets#40]

So if somebody requests to drop/pick up a song and one of the head mods approves it (John/Jantz) but your league's mod doesn't get around to approving it before the next show, is the trade valid?
check out the OP of the Waiver request thread... it actually says that Jantz or I can approve song trades as well, but I personally think the league mod should at least say that they agree.

Also, regardless of when a mod approves a song trade, it's the time that it was requested that determines when points start to be scored, so if we accidentally didn't notice someone's request for a song, then weeks later noticed it, they would get all the points for the song since the time it was requested. That way a mod can't be responsible for someone earning less points. otherwise that would suck if you requested something huge, it got played, but it didn't count because a mod was being lazy.

so in summary, if the trade ever gets approved, it's effective from the time it was requested

[Minarets#40]

until the Fantasy Tour Discussion thread returns, I'll ask this here

as an idea for next year's tour, what does everyone think about this?
+1 bonus point if there's a guest on your song (besides Butch and Rashawn obviously)

[maya]

until the Fantasy Tour Discussion thread returns, I'll ask this here

as an idea for next year's tour, what does everyone think about this?
+1 bonus point if there's a guest on your song (besides Butch and Rashawn obviously)

I like that idea. It'll give more reason for song picks. See who's opening for the shows, who's more likely to guest on a song.

[bradshaw06]

until the Fantasy Tour Discussion thread returns, I'll ask this here

as an idea for next year's tour, what does everyone think about this?
+1 bonus point if there's a guest on your song (besides Butch and Rashawn obviously)

i was actually thinking about suggesting this the other day. it would add another dimension to the game and really make it fun. i like it:thumbsup

[coyne]

prob been answered before but why is watchtower, the maker and other covers not.. "cover song".

[broatchg]

until the Fantasy Tour Discussion thread returns, I'll ask this here

as an idea for next year's tour, what does everyone think about this?
+1 bonus point if there's a guest on your song (besides Butch and Rashawn obviously)

I like it.

[Minarets#40]

prob been answered before but why is watchtower, the maker and other covers not.. "cover song".
if all of those were included in Cover Song, then Cover Song would basically be played every single night, and it would blanket too many songs. However, as it is now, all of those other covers that are listed individually are in Group C, so they score more points, while the option "Cover Song" is in group B, since it's less specific. basically, the last few shows DMB put on before the draft included 7 cover songs in 2 shows, so cover song was put as an option so that those would be able to score points without people drafting every cover individually.

plus, the covers that are listed specifically have been featured much more regularly throughout DMB's history, so they are considered like a DMB song almost. I don't hear Watchtower and think "oh, here's a Dylan cover!"

[DaveMB36]

Quick question: i understand that the two top point scorers advance to the next round type of thing but do your points still stand when that happens or is it clean slate for those head to head shows?

[Minarets#40]

Quick question: i understand that the two top point scorers advance to the next round type of thing but do your points still stand when that happens or is it clean slate for those head to head shows?
the points scored now are just to decide who wins the league. once the playoffs come everyone starts back at 0.

oh and the top point scorer advances, not the top two... (there's a slight chance that might be incorrect, I'm not really an expert on the rules of the playoff just yet... if you find something from Jantz that says that then we'll go with that. I'm going to have to look up some stuff about how the playoffs are suppsed to work before we get there.)

[DMBfan41]

Question: Why is Gravedigger worth only 2 points yet Some Devil is worth 5?

[Minarets#40]

Question: Why is Gravedigger worth only 2 points yet Some Devil is worth 5?
I am not the one who originally designed the song groups, that was Jantz. I didn't notice that Gravedigger was only in group B until after it started getting played. If you look, I actually at one point asked what people thought of moving it, but people were against the idea, so nothing is going to change with it. If that had been caught before the draft, I probably would have suggested moving it do a higher point-scoring group. I agree that it's a little bit of an odd discrepancy, but I think it's too late to do anything about it. The songs are in the groups that they're in, and I guess people will just be able to play knowing that.

that's the best answer I can give. I understand where you're coming from completely.

[DMBfan41]

I think that anything could be fixed. We're still 6 shows away from the halfway point of this tour. I think people should be allowed to vote on some changes for the game for the second half of the tour.

And i'm not talking about just Gravedigger but any point or song discrepancy.

My point is it's not too late

[maya]

well lets think of it this in a hypothetical situation, say we vote on something right now. What happens when something get changed then other people come along and go "well i wasn't here for it. that isn't fair. i didn't get my say"

[DMBfan41]

it's the same exact thing as someone picking sweet up and down and cornbread when not everyone was informed that they could be picked.

[bradshaw06]

well like i said before once one song gets changed, people will ask for others to be changed. its too late to change everything now, and if we did it would create a huge mess

[DMBfan41]

i disagree, it would only be a mess if it wasn't organized.

[bradshaw06]

no it would be a huge mess to have to change everything around and have to keep track of every change. its organized very well right now by john and the other mods, changing shit now would just confuse to many people and im sure alot of people would complain if we started changing points and such

[coyne]

whys your name bold john?

[Minarets#40]

whys your name bold john?
I've been made an ants.org moderator for this forum. Jantz was too for a while, but I'm not sure why his name was never bold. I can't really do anything outside of this forum. It's convenient though because the main moderators don't really check in here all that often I don't think, so if there's something that needs to be changed/taken care of etc. I don't have to go run to them. It's mostly just as a convenience to them and to us - win/win I'd say...