Vince Young/Rex Grossman Media Double Standard

[Tiduwho]

This thread was inspired by a post from NastyMan:

QBs get too much credit for wins, and too much blame for losses.

The only circumstance I can see where losses were pretty much the QBs fault are Grossman...:lol :lol


Not, but seriously thats just the way it goes..


This brings up a nice interesting little media double standard...has anyone paid attention to VINCE YOUNG this year? From watching ESPN and the rest of the media's general input, how would you guess he's doing this year? I'd say "alright". Nothing too good, but he's been consistent and is winning his team games, which you'd ascertain by watching general media coverage and input about the Titans and VY.


Then you take a look at the stats. Oh, what have we here? HE'S BEEN FUCKING HORRIBLE. And not a word about it from the media. Rex was getting clowned around already at this point last year when he had been doing fairly good more often than bad. Have a look (compliments of my buddy Mute from the ESPN boards):


This time last year, ESPN along with many other sports networks were all over Grossman for his streaky play up to this point. This year, Young is struggling and not a word is mentioned.


Grossman posted single game QB ratings up to this point like this: (in order)
98.6, 148.0, 64.9, 100.5, 101.2, 10.2, 137.4 and 36.8 = 87.2

Young Single Game QB Ratings up to this point are:
47.9, 95.3, 97.5, 34.5, 72.6, hurt, 50.3, 36.5 = 61.5

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grossman picks and td (td/pick): 14/10
Young picks and td (td/pick): 3/8
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fumbles:
Grossman- 3 lost
Young: 2 lost
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Records:
Grossman- 7-1
Young: 6-2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yards:
Grossman- 1849
Young- 855
(granted Grossman had 1 more game but take out his highest yard game just to even the games up and he has 1560)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So, at this point last season when all this Grossman talk came up... he was doing BETTER than Vince Young is at this point, and they aren't talking about him every 2 seconds. Grossman was doing better in every passing category than Young is this year.

So... what's up with the double standard here ESPN and other Sports networks?


It's sad and pathetic. But you, me, and everyone else knows the reason why. And it has something to do with fear, Donovon McNabb, Rush Limbaugh, and everyone's favorite local loonies Al and Jesse. :BANG

[cruscott35]

I've been saying VY was garbage for ever.

[cruscott35]

But yes, there is a double standard, and it's not just here either. It's life and I don't see it changing any time soon.

[Nick@Night]

Enter: Tarvaris Jackson.

[crashintome202]

because vince young won a championship at Texas so he gets a free pass.

[dmbmuskie]

ESPN was ball washing Grossman for a good portion of last year, before throwing him under the bus.

I think the difference is in who the teams are and what they are doing. The Bears were the best team in the NFC, they have a storied history, and they have a huge fan base. The Titans are a good team, but an aftert hought for the AFC title and they play in Nashville.

[DMBZeppelin]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3095890&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3095890

ESPN had mid-season progress reports.

Right answers (for Bears): Not much has gone right for last year's NFC champs. Lovie Smith made a long-awaited change at quarterback that at least gives Da Bears a chance to win.

Wrong Answers (for Titans): Vince Young (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7752) has experienced growing pains as a passer and his weapons are very ordinary. The Titans don't have a dynamic playmaker at wide receiver, tight end or running back, which will eventually catch up with them.

So let the Bears who were 15-4 in 2006, had no chance to win with Rex? 23 TD's, 3,000+ yards, and 7 games of a QB Rating of 100+, a few in the 90's and 80's. But he also had 5 HORRIBLE games. No chance? This year Rex's stats are a reflection of the o-line.

Vince Young is experiancing "growing pains". Rex had recievers running the wrong route, tackles showing their age (who've done better under Griese), Cedric Benson as his running back (they didn't start cutting his playing time till Griese started), and Ron Turner refusing to put Hester or Olsen on the field.

People can think what they want about Rex, the 5 horrible games from 06' were pretty much all on Prime Time. So many uneducated fans out there about him. Point is he really hasn't had much help in Chicago. Yet he sucks, but Young gets a pass for a lack of weapons.

[cruscott35]

No, they both suck. Problem being, when VY sucks, he can run.

[john baptiste]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/insider/news/story?id=3095890&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d3095890

ESPN had mid-season progress reports.

Right answers (for Bears): Not much has gone right for last year's NFC champs. Lovie Smith made a long-awaited change at quarterback that at least gives Da Bears a chance to win.

Wrong Answers (for Titans): Vince Young (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=7752) has experienced growing pains as a passer and his weapons are very ordinary. The Titans don't have a dynamic playmaker at wide receiver, tight end or running back, which will eventually catch up with them.

So let the Bears who were 15-4 in 2006, had no chance to win with Rex? 23 TD's, 3,000+ yards, and 7 games of a QB Rating of 100+, a few in the 90's and 80's. But he also had 5 HORRIBLE games. No chance? This year Rex's stats are a reflection of the o-line.

Vince Young is experiancing "growing pains". Rex had recievers running the wrong route, tackles showing their age (who've done better under Griese), Cedric Benson as his running back (they didn't start cutting his playing time till Griese started), and Ron Turner refusing to put Hester or Olsen on the field.

People can think what they want about Rex, the 5 horrible games from 06' were pretty much all on Prime Time. So many uneducated fans out there about him. Point is he really hasn't had much help in Chicago. Yet he sucks, but Young gets a pass for a lack of weapons.
is everything in your post from espn or is some of it your own? serious question, as i don't have insider.

[NastyMan]

I've been saying VY was garbage for ever.

I've always thought Vince Young sucked too.

VERY overrated. To me he is Michael Vick II..

So concerned with himself. Who throws a hissy fit when they are runner up for Heisman? Give me a break. And the man sucks as passing. Very, very over rated QB.

[NastyMan]

Some people are so bitter.

Rex Grossman was/is an awful QB. Same with Vince Young.

Why are you complaining about Grossman being labeled a shitty QB?

With the media, it's all about hype. And Vince Young was hyped up big just like Vick.

[DMBZeppelin]

is everything in your post from espn or is some of it your own? serious question, as i don't have insider.
The thing that was right answers: and wrong answers: were ESPN. All the crap after that is just my opinion on those two things.

[john baptiste]

cool.

[DMBZeppelin]

Some people are so bitter.

Rex Grossman was/is an awful QB. Same with Vince Young.

Why are you complaining about Grossman being labeled a shitty QB?

With the media, it's all about hype. And Vince Young was hyped up big just like Vick.
Reason I have a problem with it is we never found out if Rex was a shitty QB. He put up stats that are comparable to ANY great QB in their first year starting. I did not say he was a rookie, before someone complains about that. First year STARTING.

For two months he was under MVP consideration, Offensive Player of the Month in September in Sept. 2006, Won the NFL Air FedEx Player of the week in Sept. and October. Was named NFC Offensive Player of the Week in December (when the media would have you believe he never had a good game late in the season).

Did Rex struggle at times in 06'? He sure did, but he also showed a lot of upside. His main problem was he'd make a lot of dumb throws under pressure. Expcet he showed in 07' even though he had no O-line help, he could now handle a blitz. He just never got the protection to show the other side of himself that threw 23 TD's last year.

[NastyMan]

Grossman got flustered too easily, and wasn't very good at reading a defense...

[SoRight24]

It's because he's white.

[dmbmuskie]

I'm a huge stats guy, but I think VY's impact is beyond his stats.

[dmbgodagirl41]

It's because he's white.

I was gonna say this.

IF you jump on Vince Young, you're racist. If you jump on Rex Grossman, you're just jumping all over a dopey white guy.

[VanHorneDog]

VY is first and amazing athlete so i think he gets less flack because he has potential where Grossman was just a slow pocket passer who couldnt do that?

VY was never regarded as a smart perfect thrower. he was an athlete.

on the other hand the Bears are in Chicago and the Tintans are where??? idotn even know cuz i dont care about them they are what 0-8 anyway? :D lol

[dmbmuskie]

It has nothing to do with race.

[SoRight24]

It has nothing to do with race.

Obviously, which is why it was a joke.

[dmbmuskie]

Obviously, which is why it was a joke.

I thought you were joking.

[SoRight24]

I thought you were joking.

Katie just missed it, like always. :lol

[DMBZeppelin]

Grossman got flustered too easily, and wasn't very good at reading a defense...
I'm just curious if you actually watched any Bears games not on Prime Time? He's been bad in all but one of them (the Giants last year on Sunday Night Football).

[DMBZeppelin]

It has nothing to do with race.
Half true, any time someone criticizes a black QB the race issue seems to come up. Heck listen to Chicago sports radio. People call in all the time if people complain about Lovie Smith "You only say bad stuff about Lovie because he's black."

Obviously there is something other then performance that cause people to hate Rex. Griese didn't touch a football till game 4 of this season. He's tied for the lead of most interceptions at 10. Yet no one is talking about benching him the way they were Rex at this point last year.

[dmbmuskie]

Rex was a 1st round draft pick, so he's expected to play like it.

The color thing is just nonsense. It wasn't too long ago that Dungy got bashed by about everyone for being to nice, not winning the big one, etc. Herm Edwards gets bashed a lot. Tomlin took some heat in Pittsburgh.

[DMBZeppelin]

Rex was a 1st round draft pick, so he's expected to play like it.
Griese was a 1st day pick for the Broncos. Even though he doesn't have near the arm Rex does. The reason they went with Griese is because he was suppose to take care of the ball and not turn it over.

Yet he's thrown 10 interceptions, has 5 fumbles (1 lost), for 11 turnovers. He's no safer then "Bad Rex" minus the deep ball scoring potential. He's not doing anything CLOSE to what he's suppose to be.

[pauly8509]

I never thought Griese was a good option. I said last year that the O-line has been the problem and that's proving to be pretty damn true. Hell, put in the Neck Beard!

[dmbmuskie]

Griese was a 1st day pick for the Broncos. Even though he doesn't have near the arm Rex does. The reason they went with Griese is because he was suppose to take care of the ball and not turn it over.

Yet he's thrown 10 interceptions, has 5 fumbles (1 lost), for 11 turnovers. He's no safer then "Bad Rex" minus the deep ball scoring potential. He's not doing anything CLOSE to what he's suppose to be.

Griese has proven to be nothing beyond mediocre in his career.

The Bears line is bad. Football outsiders has them as the 28th best line for running the ball, and 17th for pass protection. Most QBs are going to look bad in that situation.

[dmbhoosier21]

I think the difference is in who the teams are and what they are doing. The Bears were the best team in the NFC, they have a storied history, and they have a huge fan base. The Titans are a good team, but an aftert hought for the AFC title and they play in Nashville.

I'm a huge stats guy, but I think VY's impact is beyond his stats.

It has nothing to do with race.

We agree way too much.

VY is first and amazing athlete so i think he gets less flack because he has potential where Grossman was just a slow pocket passer who couldnt do that?

VY was never regarded as a smart perfect thrower. he was an athlete.


No, they both suck. Problem being, when VY sucks, he can run.

^ Basically.

[DMBZeppelin]

I never thought Griese was a good option. I said last year that the O-line has been the problem and that's proving to be pretty damn true. Hell, put in the Neck Beard!
Do you remember what Orton did when this o-line was GREAT back in 2005? Plus we had a running game then. Orton who reguarly threw for 60-70 yards a game would get killed out there right now. Remember his 5 INT first half against the Bengals? That's what he'd probably look like if he went out there right now.

Griese has proven to be nothing beyond mediocre in his career.

The Bears line is bad. Football outsiders has them as the 28th best line for running the ball, and 17th for pass protection. Most QBs are going to look bad in that situation.
Totally agree, but I don't see why Bears fan constantly boo and hate the most productive Bears QB in 10 years. Bad O-line, Cedric Benson, and Moose is their number 1 reciever.

[crashintonickdm]

ESPN also says its never donovan mcnabb or andy reids fault.

to them, the eagles are still a great football team who will turn it around and win the NFC east.


right sailsbury. :lol you fucking waste of life.

[dmbhoosier21]

right sailsbury. :lol you fucking waste of life.

Can't stand that guy.

The arrogance just seeping out of that guy makes me sick. A player who was mediocre in his best day should not be allowed to be that arrogant.

[dmbmuskie]

We agree way too much.

We do, atleast until the playoffs.

[dmbhoosier21]

We do, atleast until the playoffs.

As expected.

[dmbhoosier21]

Totally agree, but I don't see why Bears fan constantly boo and hate the most productive Bears QB in 10 years. Bad O-line, Cedric Benson, and Moose is their number 1 reciever.

Potential maybe?

Regardless of how everyone else plays on the field, the QB in most instances is the player that is gonna absorb the most flack and criticism; justified or not.

[dmbmuskie]

As expected.

Hopefully, the the Colts will end up 15-1, the Steelers end up 14-2, and the Pats end up 14-2, which could lead to Steelers vs Colts in the AFCC (Super Bowl 41.9).

I'm sure the Colts have a fresh crowd mix to pump through their speakers for that exact occasion.

[crashintonickdm]

Hopefully, the the Colts will end up 15-1, the Steelers end up 14-2, and the Pats end up 14-2, which could lead to Steelers vs Colts in the AFCC (Super Bowl 41.9).

I'm sure the Colts have a fresh crowd mix to pump through their speakers for that exact occasion.

the steelers will go 11-5. they've lost to teams they shouldn't have lost to, whch means they arent elite. they are just good.

[UNC41]

Rex was a 1st round draft pick, so he's expected to play like it.

The color thing is just nonsense. It wasn't too long ago that Dungy got bashed by about everyone for being to nice, not winning the big one, etc. Herm Edwards gets bashed a lot. Tomlin took some heat in Pittsburgh.

Exactly. Griese is a journeyman and Rex is a recent first round pick. It's not rocket science to tell which guy will have higher expectations.

[dmbmuskie]

Bears fans hated Grossman because he tried to play outside himself, when it wasn't needed, costing the Bears win.

[dmbhoosier21]

Hopefully, the the Colts will end up 15-1, the Steelers end up 14-2, and the Pats end up 14-2, which could lead to Steelers vs Colts in the AFCC (Super Bowl 41.9).

That'd be great. Do you really see the Pats losing two games though?

The Colts have a relatively tough road ahead of them, I wouldn't be suprised if they dropped a game or two here and there; especially with the injuries .... and that's what the Colts do.


I'm sure the Colts have a fresh crowd mix to pump through their speakers for that exact occasion.

:lol Better believe it. It's our bread and butter.

[UNC41]

the steelers will go 11-5. they've lost to teams they shouldn't have lost to, whch means they arent elite. they are just good.

They lost to a guy who knows the team in and out and on the road on Monday night. I'll take the Steelers over the Cowboys on a neutral field.

[SoRight24]

They lost to a guy who knows the team in and out and on the road on Monday night. I'll take the Steelers over the Cowboys on a neutral field.

I'd take the Steelers over the 'Boys too, but the Steelers are not going to win out and go 14-2.

Delusion from Pittsburgh fans at it's best.

[crashintonickdm]

They lost to a guy who knows the team in and out and on the road on Monday night. I'll take the Steelers over the Cowboys on a neutral field.

cowboys can beat the steelers.... our defense can get to big, and willie parker wont be much ofa factor.

your defense might contain the cowboys for 2 quarters, but then marion barber will get through opening up tony romos throwing lanes.

[dmbmuskie]

the steelers will go 11-5. they've lost to teams they shouldn't have lost to, whch means they arent elite. they are just good.

I disagree. 1 loss was on Monday night, where the home team normally plays way over their head, and the other team was coached by a good portion of the Steelers staff from the previous year.

I think the Steelers end up in the 11 to 13 win range, but if they won out I wouldn't be surprised. I just think their December schedule is too tough for that to happen.


It's still early in the season, but the Steelers DVOA right now would have made them the best team in the league last year. This year there are 3 teams in front of them.

[UNC41]

cowboys can beat the steelers.... our defense can get to big, and willie parker wont be much ofa factor.

your defense might contain the cowboys for 2 quarters, but then marion barber will get through opening up tony romos throwing lanes.

So Barber is going to run well against the fourth best run defense in the league, but Parker won't against the fifth? And Romo will throw all over the best pass defense, but Roethlisberger won't against a mediocre at best Dallas pass D?

I need a pair of blue and silver shades ...

[dmbmuskie]

cowboys can beat the steelers.... our defense can get to big, and willie parker wont be much ofa factor.

your defense might contain the cowboys for 2 quarters, but then marion barber will get through opening up tony romos throwing lanes.

Getting to Ben is one thing, but stopping him is a whole other thing. He's the all time NFL leader in QB Rating after contact. I have no idea where that stat comes from, but I've heard it many times from many places.

The Steelers have the best defense in football for my money, but people don't know anyone outside of Polamalu.

[SoRight24]

Nvm my post earlier in this thread, I thought muskie was predicting the Steelers to win out and go 14-2. ;)

[dmbmuskie]

A dirty secret about the Steelers is that Willie Parker is a shitty back. He's the Adam Dunn of football. He either strikes out or hits it out of the park.

[SoRight24]

A dirty secret about the Steelers is that Willie Parker is a shitty back. He's the Adam Dunn of football. He either strikes out or hits it out of the park.

You're not telling me anything.

I watched him for 4 years at UNC......he sat on the bench mostly.

Every time he touched the ball he fumbled, and now he does all these interviews bitching that UNC benched him blah blah blah....telling all these reporters that he didn't get a fair deal.

He was a totally different player in college, and he knows it too.

[dmbmuskie]

Nvm my post earlier in this thread, I thought muskie was predicting the Steelers to win out and go 14-2. ;)

I think they'll probably lose 2 out of their last 5, but I wouldn't be surprised if they won out.

The Thursday night game against St. Louis after playing NE and JAX is a tough one. They'll be a lot of walking wounded that night.

[UNC41]

A dirty secret about the Steelers is that Willie Parker is a shitty back. He's the Adam Dunn of football. He either strikes out or hits it out of the park.

Are the Steelers planning on keeping Najeh pretty involved?

[crashintonickdm]

So Barber is going to run well against the fourth best run defense in the league, but Parker won't against the fifth? And Romo will throw all over the best pass defense, but Roethlisberger won't against a mediocre at best Dallas pass D?

I need a pair of blue and silver shades ...

dude, the dallas defense isnt bad. what are you talking about?

we're 1st in the NFC in total defense.

[dmbmuskie]

You're not telling me anything.

I watched him for 4 years at UNC......he sat on the bench mostly.

Every time he touched the ball he fumbled, and now he does all these interviews bitching that UNC benched him blah blah blah....telling all these reporters that he didn't get a fair deal.

He was a totally different player in college, and he knows it too.

He's had some great coaching and mentoring. I don't know if he got that at UNC.

[SoRight24]

He's had some great coaching and mentoring. I don't know if he got that at UNC.

Oh I'll give you the coaching, Bunting was horrible.

But still, when you fumble as much as he did, you don't deserve to be in there.

And now that he's having success, he's talking all big and bad.

[dmbmuskie]

Are the Steelers planning on keeping Najeh pretty involved?

Sometimes it seems like he's going to get a bigger role, then he won't touch the ball for 2 weeks.

I think they have another diamond in the rough in Gary Russell, but I don't think he'll see the field all year.

If the Steelers had someone to play 3 yards and a cloud of dust with they'd be unbeatable.

[UNC41]

dude, the dallas defense isnt bad. what are you talking about?

we're 1st in the NFC in total defense.

Where did I say Dallas has a bad defense? They aren't great against the pass. Pittsburgh has the better defense, yet you assume Dallas will roll over them in the second half.

[dmbmuskie]

Oh I'll give you the coaching, Bunting was horrible.

But still, when you fumble as much as he did, you don't deserve to be in there.

And now that he's having success, he's talking all big and bad.

You can teach someone to protect the ball, but maybe he didn't want to accept that teaching.

It's hard to know for sure what was going on there.

[UNC41]

Sometimes it seems like he's going to get a bigger role, then he won't touch the ball for 2 weeks.

I think they have another diamond in the rough in Gary Russell, but I don't think he'll see the field all year.

If the Steelers had someone to play 3 yards and a cloud of dust with they'd be unbeatable.

Russell was just as effective as Maroney his sophomore year. If he didn't have academic issues he would have been a first day pick.

[DMBZeppelin]

Bears fans hated Grossman because he tried to play outside himself, when it wasn't needed, costing the Bears win.
Define playing outside yourself. That tells me he was trying to play better then he is, but Rex has been pretty good at times:

19 for 32, 249 Yards, 2 TD and 1 INT, 91.8 QB Rating (59.4 CMP%)
21 for 31, 248 Yards, 0 TD and 0 INT, 91.9 QB Rating (67.7 CMP%)*thru 3Q
18 for 26, 262 Yards, 1 TD and 1 INT, 98.6 QB Rating (69.2 CMP%)
20 for 27, 289 Yards, 4 TD and 0 INT, 148.0 QB Rating (74.1 CMP%)
17 for 31, 232 Yards, 2 TD and 0 INT, 100.5 QB Rating (54.8 CMP%)
15 for 27, 182 Yards, 2 TD and 0 INT, 101.2 QB Rating (55.6 CMP%)*thru 3Q
23 for 29, 252 Yards, 3 TD and 0 INT, 137.4 QB Rating (79.3 CMP%)
18 for 30, 246 Yards, 3 TD and 1 INT, 105.7 QB Rating (60.0 CMP%)
13 for 23, 200 Yards, 2 TD and 0 INT, 114.4 QB Rating (56.5 CMP%)
29 for 44, 339 Yards, 2 TD and 0 INT, 104.3 QB Rating (65.5 CMP%)

These are 10 of Grossman's 20 regular season starts from 03' to 06'. 50% of his starts, and this doesn't include games with 70 or 80 QB Ratings. So in half of his games, he was above average. In a handful of others he was decent to good. Then in 5 he was bad to where the Bears shouldn't of had a chance to win and still did.

Also keep in mind Grossman worked with such great coordinators as John Schoop, Terry Shea, and Ron Turner.

Starting receivers for Bears since Rex has been here.
2003: Marty Booker (WR1) and David Terrell (WR2)
2004: David Terrell (WR1) and Bobby Wade (WR2)
2005: Mushin Muhammad (WR1) and Justin Gage (WR2)
2006: Mushin Muhammad (WR1) and Bernard Berrian (WR2)
2007: Mushin Muhammad (WR1) and Bernard Berrian (WR2)

Sorry for the long post, but my point is. I don't think he's played "outside" himself, and has done pretty well with what's been given to him.

[dmbmuskie]

Russell was just as effective as Maroney his sophomore year. If he didn't have academic issues he would have been a first day pick.

He impressed me when he was in college, and he looked good in the preseason.

Apparently, he's worthless on special teams, so it's hard to justify dressing him on Sunday. It could also mean he's not ready to play in the NFL, but he couldn't be any worse than Parker is from time to time.

[dmbmuskie]

I think the QBs first job is not to turn the ball over, and that's even more important when you have a big time defense.

Grossman played some great games, but I think he tries to do too much. Sometimes the best play is a sack or a throw away, and I don't think he ever learned that.

[SoRight24]

I think the QBs first job is not to turn the ball over, and that's even more important when you have a big time defense.

Grossman played some great games, but I think he tries to do too much. Sometimes the best play is a sack or a throw away, and I don't think he ever learned that.

All Grossman had to do with that defense was manage the game.

Granted not having anything worth a shit for a running game because Benson sucks, hurts though.

I find it funny Benson was crying all last year because he had to share the carries, and now he can't handle it on his own. :lol

[UNC41]

He impressed me when he was in college, and he looked good in the preseason.

Apparently, he's worthless on special teams, so it's hard to justify dressing him on Sunday. It could also mean he's not ready to play in the NFL, but he couldn't be any worse than Parker is from time to time.

I don't think a guy who drops out of Minnesota because of academic issues is the kind of guy you will generally find dedicating himself to giving it all playing special teams. Russell is very talented, but probably lacking maturity to do what it takes in order get his chance.

[DMBZeppelin]

cowboys can beat the steelers.... our defense can get to big, and willie parker wont be much ofa factor.

your defense might contain the cowboys for 2 quarters, but then marion barber will get through opening up tony romos throwing lanes.
Romo has been turning the ball over too much this year for them to beat the Steelers. He's on pace for 20 INTs this year, which is what Rex had last year. Connection? QB Coach Wade Wilson.

[DMBZeppelin]

I think the QBs first job is not to turn the ball over, and that's even more important when you have a big time defense.

Grossman played some great games, but I think he tries to do too much. Sometimes the best play is a sack or a throw away, and I don't think he ever learned that.
You are correct in that Rex did that a lot last year. This year was a different story. He only had three games to show it, but had the San Diego game happened in 06' you're looking at 4-5 INTs. He wound up with 1 INT.

There's two reasons the Bears suck this year. They didn't invest in getting younger at the tackle position, and they hung Rex out to dry by trying to turn Benson into a feature back.

I know Rex would never be a Hall of Famer or MVP. But I do give the guy a lot of support. Because he HAS shown that he can play at a VERY high level at times. As a Bears fan I've never seen a QB who can do that. I feel like we finally got someone who can be average with the occasional great game. How many QBs can play at an MVP level that Rex did for 2 months in 06?

It scares me to think if we suck the rest of the year. Draft a guy like a Andre Woodson or Brian Brohm. How will they ever develop under the current coaching staff, or current offensive talent?

[dmbmuskie]

Romo has been turning the ball over too much this year for them to beat the Steelers. He's on pace for 20 INTs this year, which is what Rex had last year. Connection? QB Coach Wade Wilson.

Romo had one bad game.

[DMBZeppelin]

Romo had one bad game.
Through this point last year, Rex had 14 TDs and 10 INTs. Romo has 19 TDs and 10 INTs. Rex's one bad game was the Cardinals 4 INT game on MNF with the amazing comeback. Romo's bad game this year was the 5 INT game against Buffalo with the amazing comeback.

I don't think Romo will continue on this pace. I just thought it was funny Wade Wilson goes there this year, and Romo has a similar year up till this point.

[pauly8509]

Do you remember what Orton did when this o-line was GREAT back in 2005? Plus we had a running game then. Orton who reguarly threw for 60-70 yards a game would get killed out there right now. Remember his 5 INT first half against the Bengals? That's what he'd probably look like if he went out there right now.


Totally agree, but I don't see why Bears fan constantly boo and hate the most productive Bears QB in 10 years. Bad O-line, Cedric Benson, and Moose is their number 1 reciever.

It was a joke. But remember that offense was still the, throw, run, swing pass, punt formula that really didn't allow him to throw either.

I'm a closet Grossman supporter, and I think the blame on him has been unfair. The line clearly sucks, its the oldest in the NFL, and without a run game it puts alot of pressure on Rex and I think he felt like he HAD to make plays at times and that cost him his job.

Griese is mediocre and isn't the answer, never was. He's nice to have if your Qb gets hurt and the rest of your team is living up to the hype, and neither have been the case.

[jimibadfish]

I'm a huge stats guy, but I think VY's impact is beyond his stats.

:thumbsup Leadership, toughness...oh and he can run over a linebacker and around a safety.

[dmbmuskie]

:thumbsup Leadership, toughness...oh and he can run over a linebacker and around a safety.

Did we just agree?

He elevates the play of the entire team.

[kydmb99]

Did we just agree?

He elevates the play of the entire team.

Yep... I don't care what the stats say, I'd rather have VY over RG ANY day of the week... not even a contest.

[jimibadfish]

Plus, Grossman pouts like a little bitch when he throws a pick.

[swampdonkey]

Last year Rex had a solid year...which is precisely why he wasn't benched last year. He was still terribly inconsistent, but they had a running game and defense that could win games with him playing that way. Unfortunately for Rex, it's not last year anymore and he was not having a decent year by any measure this year. If you play like shit you deserve every bit of the critisim you get and you deserve to sit down on the bench.

The Titans have a good running game and a good defense which is allowing Vince to win even with his crappy stats, just like Grossman last year.

I don't think there is a double standard.

Rex has been in the league several years and it was time for him to play like it. Young is a 2nd year guy who gets a pass when they are winning becuase he is inexperienced.

[gryspn41]

VY is multi-dimensional where Rex is not. So VY can have a bad day throwing the ball but he usually does just enough to get a WIN. Which is what it's about in the NFL. VY is a winner, he's proven that his whole career.

Roger

[Tiduwho]

Last year Rex had a solid year...which is precisely why he wasn't benched last year. He was still terribly inconsistent, but they had a running game and defense that could win games with him playing that way. Unfortunately for Rex, it's not last year anymore and he was not having a decent year by any measure this year. If you play like shit you deserve every bit of the critisim you get and you deserve to sit down on the bench.

The Titans have a good running game and a good defense which is allowing Vince to win even with his crappy stats, just like Grossman last year.

I don't think there is a double standard.

Rex has been in the league several years and it was time for him to play like it. Young is a 2nd year guy who gets a pass when they are winning becuase he is inexperienced.

Rex was far from experienced last year. 7 games in an injury plagued career in which each time he spent months on crutches, and follow it up with a new playbook to learn for 4 years straight. Can't even build off of something like that.

The double standard is that Rex's head was being called for week in and week out. By the fans, the media, and the casual observer. Vince Young? Not even a hint. In fact, if you talk to a Titans fan they think he is one of the best QBs in the league because he can "make plays" and "he wins".

[swampdonkey]

Rex was far from experienced last year. 7 games in an injury plagued career in which each time he spent months on crutches, and follow it up with a new playbook to learn for 4 years straight. Can't even build off of something like that.

The double standard is that Rex's head was being called for week in and week out. By the fans, the media, and the casual observer. Vince Young? Not even a hint. In fact, if you talk to a Titans fan they think he is one of the best QBs in the league because he can "make plays" and "he wins".

I agree that the media was critical of Rex, but that is not accurate. There were a couple weeks where he strung together 2 or three good games and the media had some praise for him. It was an up and down season and last year he had his supporters. Regardless, I would expect any player that inconsistent to have extreme critism leveled at them.

If young keeps this up and they start losing, he'll be benched just like rex was. You can't bench your QB when you are winning, which is why Rex wasn't benched last year. I still don't see a double standard.

I'm not defending young's ability, just to be clear. As far as I'm concerned, you need somebody back the to throw the football down the field, not run around. If Vince proves he is a good passer then I'll say he's a good QB, but for now..he's worthless.

[thehoss]

im sorry, ill still take vince young over rex, or anyone, at anytime, for the most. he's the best qb out of the draft class, no doubt about it. tennessse doesn't have that bigplay wideout, and the crushing o-line. vince is learning a whole new football playing in the nfl, not a run-and-gun offense. it took mcnabb 3-4 years ATLEAST, to be a decent qb in the nfl. they are basically the same player, but i think when its all said and done, VY will be miles past mcnabb. crush vince all you want, he still silenced the usc and their overrated team, and is still winning games in the nfl.

[DMBZeppelin]

I agree that the media was critical of Rex, but that is not accurate. There were a couple weeks where he strung together 2 or three good games and the media had some praise for him. It was an up and down season and last year he had his supporters. Regardless, I would expect any player that inconsistent to have extreme critism leveled at them.

If young keeps this up and they start losing, he'll be benched just like rex was. You can't bench your QB when you are winning, which is why Rex wasn't benched last year. I still don't see a double standard.

I'm not defending young's ability, just to be clear. As far as I'm concerned, you need somebody back the to throw the football down the field, not run around. If Vince proves he is a good passer then I'll say he's a good QB, but for now..he's worthless.
I'm not sure you really understand the Rex situation. After the Arizona game, any media praise for him stopped. Even though he follwed the Cards game up with a GREAT game against the 49ers. It didn't bring him back any media hype. Then the Dolphins game happened, and Jason Taylor went nuts on Rex. It also cost the Bears their first lost. That was the breaking point of where you never stopped hearing about Griese.

Every week Lovie and the Bears players were asked what they thought about Rex. The guy was getting booed at home games coming out of the tunnel before ever touching the ball. Griese chants were a common and popular things at games. The Chicago and national media would constantly attack him in any story.

If you go look at even old Ants threads. That were about football from Nov 06' till Oct 07' most people were giving Rex the title of worst starting QB ever. I've seen many experts/analyst say they've never seen the type of criticism Rex had for on the field performance. You'll see other guys get ripped for off the field stuff. But just on the field performance from someone who is generally considered a class act.

[Tiduwho]

im sorry, ill still take vince young over rex, or anyone, at anytime, for the most. he's the best qb out of the draft class, no doubt about it. tennessse doesn't have that bigplay wideout, and the crushing o-line. vince is learning a whole new football playing in the nfl, not a run-and-gun offense. it took mcnabb 3-4 years ATLEAST, to be a decent qb in the nfl. they are basically the same player, but i think when its all said and done, VY will be miles past mcnabb. crush vince all you want, he still silenced the usc and their overrated team, and is still winning games in the nfl.

Believe me, that was one of the happiest moments ever for me while watching College Football (behind Boise St of course).

But the "wins games" defense is pretty worthless imo.

[swampdonkey]

I'm not sure you really understand the Rex situation. After the Arizona game, any media praise for him stopped. Even though he follwed the Cards game up with a GREAT game against the 49ers. It didn't bring him back any media hype. Then the Dolphins game happened, and Jason Taylor went nuts on Rex. It also cost the Bears their first lost. That was the breaking point of where you never stopped hearing about Griese.

Every week Lovie and the Bears players were asked what they thought about Rex. The guy was getting booed at home games coming out of the tunnel before ever touching the ball. Griese chants were a common and popular things at games. The Chicago and national media would constantly attack him in any story.

If you go look at even old Ants threads. That were about football from Nov 06' till Oct 07' most people were giving Rex the title of worst starting QB ever. I've seen many experts/analyst say they've never seen the type of criticism Rex had for on the field performance. You'll see other guys get ripped for off the field stuff. But just on the field performance from someone who is generally considered a class act.

This is what I'm saying...he had plenty of supporters in the media. He took a lot of heat because he was terribly inconsistent. He looked like two different players from game to game. He did recieve some praise, I can remember going into the green bay game at the end of the year. He had posted 100+, 100+, 80.something passer ratings the three games previous and the media was saying how great he's been playing before the game. Boomer was talking about how he has matured over the last part of the season blah blah...

It wasn't all bad for rex. He took his lumbs because he had some of the worst games of any QB in recent memory. Has Vince Young ever posted a 0.0 QB rating? How about a 1.3? Rex deserved everything he got in my opinion....

[DMBZeppelin]

This is what I'm saying...he had plenty of supporters in the media. He took a lot of heat because he was terribly inconsistent. He looked like two different players from game to game. He did recieve some praise, I can remember going into the green bay game at the end of the year. He had posted 100+, 100+, 80.something passer ratings the three games previous and the media was saying how great he's been playing before the game. Boomer was talking about how he has matured over the last part of the season blah blah...

It wasn't all bad for rex. He took his lumbs because he had some of the worst games of any QB in recent memory. Has Vince Young ever posted a 0.0 QB rating? How about a 1.3? Rex deserved everything he got in my opinion....
We live in two different worlds. Before going into the Green Bay game on New Years Eve. Everyone HATED Rex. People had already begun harrassing his wife and parents at games.

Rex didn't get what he deserved. Did he derserved to get criticized for bad performances? Without a doubt. If that's all it was, some media guys complaining "Rex needs to step it up. Rex needs to play better." that's 100% A-OK. But I can tell you have little idea of what Rex went through.

[swampdonkey]

We live in two different worlds. Before going into the Green Bay game on New Years Eve. Everyone HATED Rex. People had already begun harrassing his wife and parents at games.

Rex didn't get what he deserved. Did he derserved to get criticized for bad performances? Without a doubt. If that's all it was, some media guys complaining "Rex needs to step it up. Rex needs to play better." that's 100% A-OK. But I can tell you have little idea of what Rex went through.

Ok ok...I can't speak for the populace of Chi-town. I don't have any idea what rex went through personally. All I know is the media wasn't that bad when he was playing well. He certainly didn't deserve to have his family harrased.

[DMBZeppelin]

He took his lumbs because he had some of the worst games of any QB in recent memory. Has Vince Young ever posted a 0.0 QB rating? How about a 1.3? Rex deserved everything he got in my opinion....
The 0.0 QB Rating was only in one half of play, in a meaningless game. You know who else had a 0.0 QB Rating in a half of play recently? Eli Manning. I'm also pretty sure Romo's QB rating in the 1st half against the Bills had to be in that ball park.

While Rex had some HORRIBLE games, Vince has been consistently bad. Agree or disagree, a QB rating below 60 is bad? So I added together all of their career starts to see who had the most QB ratings of 59 and below.

Rex in 26 regular season starts, and 4 playoff starts (for 30 total) has had 10 games of a QB Rating below 59.

Vince Young in 22 regular season starts has had 8 games of a QB Rating below 59. I didn't include Young's first game, as while he did post below 59. He only played the end of the game and didn't start.

So Rex has two more, but also 8 more starts. If you look at the Bears record including the playoffs with Rex as their starter. I'm only counting games where Rex plays the whole time (same for Vince) because if he doesn't blow out his knee, ect. You never know how it would turn out.

The Bears are 20-7 with Rex and the Titans are 14-8 with Young.

[Tiduwho]

Ok ok...I can't speak for the populace of Chi-town. I don't have any idea what rex went through personally. All I know is the media wasn't that bad when he was playing well. He certainly didn't deserve to have his family harrased.

To put it into perspective around here:


If the Bears benched Rex Grossman for Steve Bartman, Bartman would have received a standing ovation.

[DMBZeppelin]

The reaction Rex got from an interception around here was like the entire North Side of Chicago conjuring up visions of Steve Bartman and placing his face on Rex.

:lorraine
Didn't Lovie snap on the media one time, because they wouldn't stop asking about Rex? I think it was during the Super Bowl media week. Not sure though.

[Tiduwho]

Didn't Lovie snap on the media one time, because they wouldn't stop asking about Rex? I think it was during the Super Bowl media week. Not sure though.

Shhh...you got my pre-edit. I like the new one better though.


Yeah, it was before the St. Loius Rams game, and then again during Super Bowl week. He only snaps for about 5 seconds though, and then goes back to calm, slow-talking Lovie.

[DMBZeppelin]

Shhh...you got my pre-edit. I like the new one better though.


Yeah, it was before the St. Loius Rams game, and then again during Super Bowl week. He only snaps for about 5 seconds though, and then goes back to calm, slow-talking Lovie.
Speaking of the St. Louis game, check the Bears thread. The Raiders came this Sunday could be his version of Rex's St. Louis game. Will he pull through?

Speaking of slow-talking Lovie. Now that I think about it, he sounds like Eeyore. Just without the depression.

[swampdonkey]

The 0.0 QB Rating was only in one half of play, in a meaningless game. You know who else had a 0.0 QB Rating in a half of play recently? Eli Manning. I'm also pretty sure Romo's QB rating in the 1st half against the Bills had to be in that ball park.

While Rex had some HORRIBLE games, Vince has been consistently bad. Agree or disagree, a QB rating below 60 is bad? So I added together all of their career starts to see who had the most QB ratings of 59 and below.

Rex in 26 regular season starts, and 4 playoff starts (for 30 total) has had 10 games of a QB Rating below 59.

Vince Young in 22 regular season starts has had 8 games of a QB Rating below 59. I didn't include Young's first game, as while he did post below 59. He only played the end of the game and didn't start.

So Rex has two more, but also 8 more starts. If you look at the Bears record including the playoffs with Rex as their starter. I'm only counting games where Rex plays the whole time (same for Vince) because if he doesn't blow out his knee, ect. You never know how it would turn out.

The Bears are 20-7 with Rex and the Titans are 14-8 with Young.

Good points. I agree that below 60 is bad of course. Also, please understand that I'm not defending the play of Vince Young which I already stated. You will not find in ANY post I have made "VY>RG". Merely pointing out the inconsistent play of Rex Grossman.

I am only saying Vince Young is getting less criticism because he is winning right now. When Rex was winning last year the media was not hostile towards him. When they lost games because of his play, the media tore him apart.

I still do not see a double standard on the part of the media. With the way the athletes are treated by the public? Maybe...I don't know. I don't live in either Tennessee or Chicago.

I would not want either of these shitty QBs as my quarterback and I am not defending Vince Young's play on the field (HE SUCKS).

[DMBZeppelin]

Good points. I agree that below 60 is bad of course. Also, please understand that I'm not defending the play of Vince Young which I already stated. You will not find in ANY post I have made "VY>RG". Merely pointing out the inconsistent play of Rex Grossman.

I am only saying Vince Young is getting less criticism because he is winning right now. When Rex was winning last year the media was not hostile towards him. When they lost games because of his play, the media tore him apart.

I still do not see a double standard on the part of the media. With the way the athletes are treated by the public? Maybe...I don't know. I don't live in either Tennessee or Chicago.

I would not want either of these shitty QBs as my quarterback and I am not defending Vince Young's play on the field (HE SUCKS).
You'd probably have to live in our areas to truly understand, because it was bad. Rex and his wife wouldn't even go out for dinner anymore late last season. People hated Rex with a passion, and I myself have never understood why.

I know you weren't sayone one was better then the other. The reason I posted half the stats I did was because TheHoss said Vince was a winner. So I posted their records. The main thing I disagree about though, is that Rex was HEAVILY criticized while the Bears were winning. Including the playoffs they lost 4 games. So with 15 wins at other times, it was rare the Bears lost.

[1eyed_jack]

To put it into perspective around here:


If the Bears benched Rex Grossman for Steve Bartman, Bartman would have received a standing ovation.


umm.. i don't know what that means, but when rex was going good he was king. he had a streak where he was going well and got praised left and right among the bear faithful. true it didn't last and they wanted him gone, but i don't think bartman would have been taken better

[DMBZeppelin]

umm.. i don't know what that means, but when rex was going good he was king. he had a streak where he was going well and got praised left and right among the bear faithful. true it didn't last and they wanted him gone, but i don't think bartman would have been taken better
Here's how the Bears fans acted last season -

Pre-season: GRIESE GRIESE! NECKBEARD! GRIESE GRIESE NECKBEARD!
Week 1: WOOO WE BEAT GB! Rex did better then I thought he could.
Week 2: So-so game for Rex, but at least he won it for us with that nice drive to end the game.
Weeks 3-5: SEXY REXY!!! WOO!!!! KING REX! KING REX!!! MVP MVP!
Week 6: WHY REXY!?!? WHY!?!?! The whole offense sucked though, so everyone was nervous. Some idiots were already yelling for Brian Griese but no where near the majority.
Week 7: He only tore up the 49ers, but at least we are undefeated
-BYE WEEK-
Week 9: The Bears first loss of the season, and this dream everyone had of this unbeatable Bears team died with it. 7-1 was unacceptable and after 5 great games, 1 so-so game with a comeback TD drive, and 2 bad. People had enough. From this point on it was trash Rex.

[swampdonkey]

You'd probably have to live in our areas to truly understand, because it was bad. Rex and his wife wouldn't even go out for dinner anymore late last season. People hated Rex with a passion, and I myself have never understood why.

I know you weren't sayone one was better then the other. The reason I posted half the stats I did was because TheHoss said Vince was a winner. So I posted their records. The main thing I disagree about though, is that Rex was HEAVILY criticized while the Bears were winning. Including the playoffs they lost 4 games. So with 15 wins at other times, it was rare the Bears lost.

Word...

[Tiduwho]

umm.. i don't know what that means, but when rex was going good he was king. he had a streak where he was going well and got praised left and right among the bear faithful. true it didn't last and they wanted him gone, but i don't think bartman would have been taken better

It was an exaggeration of how fans have acted since around Week 9 of last year. The Dolphins game was the beginning of the end. Before the Giants game, the calls for change were coming. Then he had that great 2nd half to quiet people down. But the back-to-back bad outings against whoever and Minny led the guns ablazing. The real thing that kills is the playoffs. The Bears got to the Super Bowl with clutch plays at the end of both playoff games from Rex, and yet what was all the talk going in?

"Rex is the worst Super Bowl quarterback of All Time!"

This year, you knew right from the get-go that Rex's leash was short. Did he deserve to be pulled after the Cowboys game? Yeah, he needed the break and Griese deserved the shot.

The basis of this thread is not whether moves should've been made or anything like that, but just how badly Rex was treated last year compared to a guy like Vince Young who has only 3 TDs to go along with 8 Ints and not a negative nelly is in the house. It's "But VY has potential!!"

While Rex tying Peyton Manning for most 100 rating games and throwing for more TDs than any Bears QB in ages = Bum, has absolutely no potential and should be out of the league. Meanwhile, guys like Josh McCown and Cleo Lemon still have jobs. Are you joking me?