People being biased

[Joyride4136]

Do you think that people on these boards/fans in general will never accept this album as being better than the "big 3" no matter how good it is?

poll coming

[MPizzle06]

It's possible. I mean shit if it's really THAT good then who would be dumb enough to say "nah not even close to the Big 3"?

wait...there could be some...

but they'd be shut up by the rational fans so it'd be fine :D

[hoke2007]

It could if it's really that mindblowing, but it would take one amazing album to change peoples minds.

[tmorry326]

It literally is impossible to be considered for Top 3 contention without Steve.

Is that bias? Yes, a Lillywhite bias, not a "they can't make new good stuff" bias. The track record speaks for itself. UTTAD, Crash, BTCS and tLWS are their best stuff. All have Steve. They have some potentially good, at the moment decent material, but it won't ever be Top 3 album material without Steve.

If it is good, it will be considered, but won't go much further. It has a ceiling of being #4.

--edit-- on pure pre-album speculation it can't be better. They have yet to prove otherwise. Maybe this album will, but on speculation - no.

[ShotgunDMB]

uttad, crash, btcs and the lillywhites are recognized because they are great art and great music. everyday, stand up...are not..that's why they're not respected. they're not good. so yeah, if they create an actual good album..they'll get credit.

[DMB0715]

I'm so biased. Nothing is going to crack the big 3 for me. I'll be the first to admit it.

[MistreatedLewis]

If they release something as good as BTCS (probably my least fav or the Big 3), I will be the first to say so. And buy tickets.

[Norman Smiley]

Because it took a lot of the older fans some time to finally give BTCS the appreciateion it deserved, I think a new album of equal greatness would follow suit.

I do not think that the new album, no matter how good, will be recognized for some time. And it wont hold up against BTCS, UTTAD and Crash maybe ever -- even if it is better.

[MistreatedLewis]

Because it took a lot of the older fans some time to finally give BTCS the appreciateion it deserved, I think a new album of equal greatness would follow suit.

I do not think that the new album, no matter how good, will be recognized for some time. And it wont hold up against BTCS, UTTAD and Crash maybe ever -- even if it is better.

By some time, you mean like 6 months right? Because for 90% of the fanbase it certainly took less than that.

[Ascf33]

I'd say it has nothing to do with bias and everything to do with the actual music being made.

You aren't biased if the music is shit. Shit is shit. No matter what year it was made in.

[ShotgunDMB]

people don't like everyday and stand up because they're not good. why is that so hard for people to understand? people would be more than willing to give credit if they actually made a commitment to making the best music possible..you know, like they used to.

[Gladstone]

If it's a better album than any of Steve's it will get the credit, it's just VERY unlikely that will happen.

Everyday, Busted Stuff and Stand Up get pissed upon, because it's just not great music, it's shallow crap pop.

[Ascf33]

If it's a better album than any of Steve's it will get the credit, it's just VERY unlikely that will happen.

Everyday, Busted Stuff and Stand Up get pissed upon, because it's just not great music, it's shallow crap pop.

Welcome to DMB of the 00's

[tmorry326]

Well I'm biased as all hell, but if Stand Up was Top 3 worthy I would have considered it.

Two different things are being talked about here. Yes bias will hold it back, but if it is really that damn good, it could crack top 3. Its not like bias held Everyday, Busted Stuff, and Stand Up out of top three contention, just for kicks. They were simply just not as good on a musical scale...

[darbini]

If it knocks me off my feet just like UTTAD, CRASH, and BTCS did then absolutely I would put it in that mix.

[Norman Smiley]

By some time, you mean like 6 months right? Because for 90% of the fanbase it certainly took less than that.


No it didnt....

Not the old school fans. In fact that album lost a lot of old school fans. But others took a while to get used to it... certainly longer then a tour. It wasnt until 99 that it really was stapled as genious.


If you mean 90% as in people that started listening when Crash came out.. then OK, Id buy that. But not people who had been listening pre -UTTAD.

And in turn fans were angry about Crash when it came out because they thought that DMB should not have put a lot of live staples on an album.

[darbini]

As soon as I heard PNP floating around only to be followed up by the sharp and quick Rapunzel, I knew this album was something to take notice of. I then skipped to the next song in my Blockbuster Music headphones and it was The Last Stop. I immediately put the headphones down and bought the cd because I knew it wasn't like Crash or UTTAD. BTCS was something drastically different, but so similar, that you couldn't help but be intrigued by it IMO. You can't go into a museum and take your time with every picture, and even if you could you wouldn't appreciate every piece for what it was trying to be. The same can be said for BTCS. The great thing about BTCS is that you don't even have to look into it all that much in order to see how great it is, but regardless people(including myself) will want to look as far into it as they can. Not once has BTCS ever 'emptied' out for me, and the only other DMB album that can say that is UTTAD.

People were angry about Crash because of the electric guitar, not just 'ruining' the album, but 'ruining' the live songs. It had nothing to do with actually putting the live staples on the album, but rather butchering them.

The only similarities between UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS is the producer. When people say the Big 3 it always sounds like they are being referred to as equals.

[Norman Smiley]

It had nothing to do with actually putting the live staples on the album, but rather butchering them.

.

That is what I meant by that. Put them on an album and over produced them -- taking away the whole effect of hearing them live.

It is why I will never understand why people want granny on a new album..

[TMoore4075]

They'll be people biased against it no doubt. And it has nothing to do with if the music is good or not. There are quite a few people who have an idea of what it "should sound like" and if it doesn't then it won't be good enough. Not saying some people just won't like it there will be people like that. People will argue with me but it's the truth. Some people have a strong idea about what the music should sound like and what the lyrics should be. I mean just look at how people argue over a version of Shotgun being better than another because "the lyrics are better." Isn't that totally subjective anyway?

That is what I meant by that. Put them on an album and over produced them -- taking away the whole effect of hearing them live.

It is why I will never understand why people want granny on a new album..

Thats the one problem with road testing first. People will have an idea of what they should sound like and when it doesn't sound like that they don't think the song is good. That's what happend to Hello Again. It's a studio version. It was never going to sound like a live version. If the studio version was the first version released then people wouldn't say Batson butchered it, it would be that the song "grew." Now don't get me wrong I think road testing is great but when it comes to that song being put on an album it may not be.

[White Rabbit]

I kinda liked SU. So yeah I think its possible they could put out an album thats good enough to be considered of the big three.

[MistreatedLewis]

No it didnt....

Not the old school fans. In fact that album lost a lot of old school fans. But others took a while to get used to it... certainly longer then a tour. It wasnt until 99 that it really was stapled as genious.


If you mean 90% as in people that started listening when Crash came out.. then OK, Id buy that. But not people who had been listening pre -UTTAD.

And in turn fans were angry about Crash when it came out because they thought that DMB should not have put a lot of live staples on an album.

That's not a rational argument considering UTTAD consisted of virtually only live staples.

And I didn't say that everyone though BTCS was GENIUS within six months. But it was not a polarizing phenomenon like Everyday was (and the albums since then). There was a large population of old fans that absolutely despised virtually everything about Everyday immediately, and that never changed. The same is not true of BTCS in any way. And I know, I, as well as you, were there.

[Norman Smiley]

That's not a rational argument considering UTTAD consisted of virtually only live staples.

And I didn't say that everyone though BTCS was GENIUS within six months. But it was not a polarizing phenomenon like Everyday was (and the albums since then). There was a large population of old fans that absolutely despised virtually everything about Everyday immediately, and that never changed. The same is not true of BTCS in any way. And I know, I, as well as you, were there.


I clarified what I meant in a post following that. Not just that it was the live staples, but that they werent done to fans liking.

I do agree with you. BTCS did not AT ALL receive the backlash that Everyday did. And after a relative short time BTCS was considered a classic. Everyday is still not considered anythign close to a classic.

I think my overall poit was that nothing will be as good as the first 3, (or 4 if you include R2T) at first -- even it is better, it will still take some time to grow on people.

I still think Crash is the best album put out.

[irishluck314]

If they put out something that is even comes close to the Big three i would be happy to go out and buy the album

[Gladstone]

You know what I think? I think the people who think DMB never does anything wrong will be the people who will be or might be biased.

;)

[jcc522]

DMB sucks

[crashintonickdm]

all this speculation, arguments, blah blah blah.

let the fucking album come out first.

[tmorry326]

all this speculation, arguments, blah blah blah.

let the fucking album come out first.

What a boring fan-base we'd be.

[crashintonickdm]

What a boring fan-base we'd be.

hahayeah what was i thinking. its our nature to assume, argue, and speculate.

[tmorry326]

hahayeah what was i thinking. its our nature to assume, argue, and speculate.

Exactly. Look at the subtitle of this Sub-forum.

"Hype Up/Down, Speculate, Guess, and pretty much every thing else you want to do about the potential album from 2008."

[dreamingtree_34]

i think an easy way for the band to make fans consider this as one of the better albums is to add in the between song jams like in btcs....its a way to make sure that fans get to hear all the musical genius that comes out in this session....especially for those people that insist that some lost soundchecked jam from two years ago should make the album...the band has great music so they should try to get as much of it on there as possible

[comerelaxnow]

i think that if the cd is good enough, even the most tight assed person around here would say it could be as good as the Big 3

but if the new cd isn't as good.....watch out!!! the tissues will be flying!

[DMB0715]

If they use the majority of the road tested material for 06 and 07, I can't picture myself saying "this is better than something from the big 3." I just can't do it.

EDIT: Majority meaning even 5 tracks or more.

[MistreatedLewis]

i think that if the cd is good enough, even the most tight assed person around here would say it could be as good as the Big 3

but if the new cd isn't as good.....watch out!!! the tissues will be flying!

Why even aim that high?

Being better than Everyday would be a workable start for them at this point.

Being as good as the Big 3 just sounds laughable at the moment.

[Ascf33]

DMB is so past the big 3 anymore... they just need to start making better music. Ditch Butch and the fat trumpet player, locate Roi's sax, and make sure Dave doesn't listen to pop radio for about a year.

[MistreatedLewis]

DMB is so past the big 3 anymore... they just need to start making better music. Ditch Butch and the fat trumpet player, locate Roi's sax, and make sure Dave doesn't listen to pop radio for about a year.

At this point I am anticipating a guest spot from Daughtry on the album.

[Ascf33]

Shotgun (f/ Lil' Wayne & Beyonce)

[tmorry326]

If they use the majority of the road tested material for 06 and 07, I can't picture myself saying "this is better than something from the big 3." I just can't do it.

EDIT: Majority meaning even 5 tracks or more.

Throw in '04 and you could however, be landing number 4 above BS/Everyday -- which ever way you rank those too -- and that would be showing something from the band.

[Ascf33]

Putting old songs on a new album shows laziness IMO.

The 04 songs should stay dead.

[tmorry326]

Putting old songs on a new album shows laziness IMO.

The 04 songs should stay dead.

How old are you talking? Granny old, yes. Crazy Easy old, hopefully not. I don't think the 04's should die, at all.

Heck, Crash was a lazy album then, with that reasoning.

[Ascf33]

I think it should be a full album of new songs, with maybe 1 or 2 road tested songs making teh cut.

04 songs are done.

[tmorry326]

Or three. Sugar Will (I know its a personal favorite of yours ;)) Crazy Easy and Shotgun.

...but that probably won't happen. We'll probably know a good chunk of the material.

Time will tell...

[Ascf33]

I'd prefer #27 & Break Free.

[tmorry326]

You could throw a #27 into my list, too. Break Free really needs work on the lyrics.

[Ascf33]

Yeah the lyrics need work, but the music and end jam are fantastic.

[bubba40]

I really think this album is going to surprise a number of hard-core fans.

[crashintonickdm]

27 and shotgun have to be great for this to work...

[tmorry326]

Yeah the lyrics need work, but the music and end jam are fantastic.

End jam is good stuff. :thumbsup

[candee82]

....yeah -- I thought I'd pipe in and say that people are getting sick of the same old rock/hip-hop/r&b bullsh*t..... and there is just this big upsurge from a new style coming out of Europe -- it's pretty easy to find, just put 'euro club hits' into itunes or check this link: http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSearch.woa/wa/advancedSearchResults?albumTerm=Euro+Club+Hits+Vol +

[DerekJTR2]

I really think this album is going to surprise a number of hard-core fans.

Agreed. But we won't know until we hear.

[jmdt52]

I say it won't live up just because the big 3 are so great/perfect.what dMb is all about... That being said, I feel like this albumwill be more positively received by the fan base.

[DNA9904]

Sorry if it's already been said, but I didn't have time to read through. Anyway, I think most people are looking to recieve this as a good album. The bad thing is that I've seen so many posts about this song and that song being on the new CD that they have to make it a 3 disc release to please everyone.

[marco j]

By some time, you mean like 6 months right? Because for 90% of the fanbase it certainly took less than that.

Yeah, that sounds just about right.

No it didnt....

Not the old school fans. In fact that album lost a lot of old school fans. But others took a while to get used to it... certainly longer then a tour. It wasnt until 99 that it really was stapled as genious.


If you mean 90% as in people that started listening when Crash came out.. then OK, Id buy that. But not people who had been listening pre -UTTAD.

And in turn fans were angry about Crash when it came out because they thought that DMB should not have put a lot of live staples on an album.

The fan base came around very quickly. I don't remember there being an exodus of fans at all.

Or three. Sugar Will (I know its a personal favorite of yours ;)) Crazy Easy and Shotgun.



I'd prefer #27 & Break Free.

:twenty4 :twenty4 :twenty4

I really think this album is going to surprise a number of hard-core fans.

Man, I hope you are right.

I think if this new album is on par with Some Devil it will be regarded as a phenomenal piece of work. I actually think the reason Some Devil isn't currently viewed as such is because the band wasn't involved.

My opinion is.....if this album can't even top Everyday Dave should go solo and salvage any chance of being considered a force in the music world.

[berman1125]

wow...its too bad people wont even give this album a chance. it hasnt even come out yet guys, and it already cant live up to the big 3

[berman1125]

I think if this new album is on par with Some Devil it will be regarded as a phenomenal piece of work. I actually think the reason Some Devil isn't currently viewed as such is because the band wasn't involved.

My opinion is.....if this album can't even top Everyday Dave should go solo and salvage any chance of being considered a force in the music world.[/quote]



i gotta agree with everything you said there, some devil is great work. and i think if this album is that good, it could be 4th in line.

[marco j]

i gotta agree with everything you said there, some devil is great work. and i think if this album is that good, it could be 4th in line.

I hate being right all the time.:D

[berman1125]

i do think it has potential for it to be 3rd best too...

[marco j]

i do think it has potential for it to be 3rd best too...

While I do believe it's possible, it's a very tall order. Not to mention just how varying people's lists for the Big 3 really are.

This is mine.......

1. Lilly's
2. Before These Crowded Streets
3. Crash

I hate not having UTTAD in there but I do feel it is superior in writing but inferior as an album do to production.

I love Typical Situation.

[berman1125]

While I do believe it's possible, it's a very tall order. Not to mention just how varying people's lists for the Big 3 really are.

This is mine.......

1. Lilly's
2. Before These Crowded Streets
3. Crash

I hate not having UTTAD in there but I do feel it is superior in writing but inferior as an album do to production.

I love Typical Situation.



i dont even know what it is for me. however the lillys are not in there


i would prolly say BTCS CRASH UTTAD for me...but will change from time to time

[marco j]

i dont even know what it is for me. however the lillys are not in there

i would prolly say BTCS CRASH UTTAD for me...but will change from time to time


I think I am just in love with how much Roi is on that album.

[jayman414]

I think what is more than likely than anything is that the boards will be talking about "The Big 4" instead of the big 3

[fireflies]

so you saying that crash was a lazy album? you should go wqsh your mouth out with soap!