Modes in DMB solos

[bennettr]

So I am just starting to get into trying to understand this modal buisness. I've been listening to Kind of Blue and I its really sparked an interest. Does anyone know if Roi, Boyd, Butch or Steffan tend to use certain modes or follow certain combinations of things? I'm a guitarists but I music is music and I figure why not try to learn from my favorite band?

[Pig17]

If memory serves me right, Stefan used E Phrygian a lot during his Watchtower intro solos.

[bennettr]

awesome, do you play any instrument?

[earl]

#41 jam is in A dorian, Ants is in D mixolydian. DIDO is A mixolydian. Most of the remaining ones are either major or minor.

[bennettr]

sweet, I will look into those

[Pig17]

awesome, do you play any instrument?

Yep. Guitar, Piano, and to some extent Violin (which basically just consists of screeching but hey, I try :lol).

[earl]

Ants and DIDO use the mixolydian scale, basically a major scale with a flat 7th. So in DIDO you have a G natural instead of what would be G# in A major. Same with ants - A regular D major scale has a C#, but in Ants Leroi and Boyd play the C instead. It adds to that country blues feeling. Now 41 is technically in G. The chorus is straight G major, but the verse and jam are A dorian since they start on the Am chord and A is the tonal center. The dorian mode is minor (contains the minor third of the root), whereas mixolydian is major (it contains the major 3rd). So in #41 you're gonna play the F#, not the F natural that is in your standard A minor scale. If that's confusing at all let me know.

[bennettr]

Awesome. Yea that all makes sense to me. I've been studying up on the modes for a couple weeks now, and I want to try to figure how to use them.

[bennettr]

I can't find that C you were talking about in ants though. Doesn't dave play a C# into the D during every verse, to give that rolling guitar sound?

[earl]

There is no C chord, but in their fills and solos Roi and Boy don't play c# they play c. Dave also plays a C in his riff during the funk intro. The only time I can hear it played is in Leroi's closing riff.

[bennettr]

alright, thats what I figured you would be getting at. Ill look into those

[Dobler]

LIOG, Bartender, Lay down lover, Ants- D ionian (or d major)... you could use mixolydian (but thats usually when there is a C chord in the mix though)
Watchtower- A aelonian or dorian or blues.... depending out your style i guess
Jimi thing jam- E Aelonian, E blues, E dorian all work (i like the E aelonian its what warren haynes uses for his solos)
41- G major
Billies- A major during the verse riff parts and B Aelonian during the Chorus chords

Thats for a few of the tunes anyways

[bennettr]

thanks steve, when it comes to using modes, is it strict on which ones specifically work for which songs, bc like you said you can use the different ones in jimi thing. is that just because the chord changes are adaptable to only those different types, or is there more freedom than that?

[Dobler]

thanks steve, when it comes to using modes, is it strict on which ones specifically work for which songs, bc like you said you can use the different ones in jimi thing. is that just because the chord changes are adaptable to only those different types, or is there more freedom than that?

Ya, like for the jimi thing jam its 2 or threes chords (E,A or E,A,G). And you can use any scale really in that situation. When i solo to jimi thing i stick with E aelonian, but also throw in extra notes that arent part of that scale. You can mix in dorian or a blues notes.
I think the only time when you should stick with one specific scale is when your in a major key jam (ex. LIOG's or Bartender outro- Use only D major). It sounds wierd (to me anyways) if you use anything else.

[bennettr]

Ya, like for the jimi thing jam its 2 or threes chords (E,A or E,A,G). And you can use any scale really in that situation. When i solo to jimi thing i stick with E aelonian, but also throw in extra notes that arent part of that scale. You can mix in dorian or a blues notes.
I think the only time when you should stick with one specific scale is when your in a major key jam (ex. LIOG's or Bartender outro- Use only D major). It sounds wierd (to me anyways) if you use anything else.

That makes sense, thats kind of what I figured. What do you recommend for improving soloing? I practice with a metronome and Ive been practicing trying to use intervals and such in various modes. I just don't want to get stagnant with my learning.

[Dobler]

ya, i do all that stuff too.. make sure its alternate picking though, you can increase the speed.... just remember down, up, down, up etc... I like running the modes all the way up to the 12th fret for some solid practice

I also just jam along to cds all the time and make up my own solos (its always good to learn the actual solo to though)... dmb's stuff is the best to jam over top of because their jams are so long... and are different instruments (so you can steal some unique riffs) rather than steal the same old guitar riffs.... some solid jam alongs are definitely LIOG, Jimi Thing, Crush and Watchtower ( i probably dont have to tell you that though!! haha)

[bennettr]

Yeah I think I've got alternate picking down pat. Usually what I do for scalar practice is playing the notes up and down, increasing speed with the help of a metronome. Then playing the notes at a slower speed but changing directions randomly. Then, much slower, I try to play notes in any random order. Then I try to play them randomly but with intervals of 3rds and 5ths in mind.

I have also been trying to jam with dmb stuff. Which is great when you can just go to Liog.org and pick up on random good licks that john mayer did or roi or whatever.

Do you play in a band or anything?

[Dobler]

Yeah I think I've got alternate picking down pat. Usually what I do for scalar practice is playing the notes up and down, increasing speed with the help of a metronome. Then playing the notes at a slower speed but changing directions randomly. Then, much slower, I try to play notes in any random order. Then I try to play them randomly but with intervals of 3rds and 5ths in mind.

I have also been trying to jam with dmb stuff. Which is great when you can just go to Liog.org and pick up on random good licks that john mayer did or roi or whatever.

Do you play in a band or anything?

ya i have a couple of things on the go kind of. I play guitar for my universities jazz band (algoma university, in canada). I also play in a band called odd man out, we a two acoustic guitar and a singer thing. This is where i get to play my dmb!! haha we've covered almost all of thier tunes from all the showes we've done.... even halloween. Unfortunately we barely play because the singer is in korea teaching and the other guitarist is in Chiropractic college. I also host a jam night at my university and just go under the name "buzz and steve" (buzz is the singer/guitarist).... we just host that every wednesday night and if no one plays we play, just cheesy covers though and the singer is not a dmb fan. But my main focus is a progressive rock band i play with called "sense of truth" its kinda like tool, a perfect circle, coheed and cambria etc.... we still havent played any shows yet though, we are still writing originals. Are you in a band at all

[bennettr]

thats sounds awesome. Do you listen to Umphrey's Mcgee or Phish progressive rock wise? I played guitar in high school with a punk/ rock kind of band and since college I have been trying to develop singing and playing because I just can't find very many people interested in just jamming and hopefully forming a band. Since I have started listening to DMB, Phish, Grateful dead and jazz I really want to form a band that appreciates jamming... I'm not sure what direction I should be going to try to start a band. So for now I am just trying to get better at guitar, singing, and some writing on the side. As for now I will probably either just focus more on writing, or buy a looper petal and be a one man band, lol

[Dobler]

haha, i have a line 6 dl 4 for delays and looping.. its solid!!! I am also quite the fan of phish and umphrey (who i saw twice now opening for dmb). A solid way to find band members is going to your cities jam nights (if they have any), or city forums. Thats how i've found most of my bands. well except for odd man out.... that was with my brother and friend. Its so frustrating trying and getting a band started.... especially finding a good bassist and drummer.... i like doing the acoustic thing the best, its way easier!!!

[bennettr]

Well I do still go to college, so I guess there is a lot of music going around. But music seems like its so much in the background. Just this semester (since I have finally turned 21) I have been trying to find bands that I like around here. I think if I start playing acoustically with some stuff, then maybe people will be more inclined to join up. we'll see