Who is Better Than Tim?

[Remember2]

name better guitarists if any

[TrippinBillie]

good question

[Firedncin8nancy]

warren?

[Rdedeian]

Jimmy Page

[kgoedman]

Trey Anastasio...he might not be better, but he would make my list of good guitarists

[dmbrhs]

Too many different styles out there to make a good comparison.

[ocean]

pat greider.

he plays irish folk music in montreal.

he's damn good

[Erich]

david gilmour. best guitarest alive, in my humble opinion.

[ibanezcollector]

Wes Montgomery
Joe Pass
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Jason Becker
Eric Johnson
John Petrucci
Stevie Ray Vaughan

The list gos on. As much as I love tim hes no where near the greats. Hes a little sloppy here and there and sometimes his solo stuff doesnt even sound good. I mean stream isnt what everyone thinks it is..

ANYONE CAN PLAY FAST. BUT TO PLAY WITH EMOTION IS ANOTHER STORY...

[Krazie Kidd]

eric clapton

Kev

[dMb40136]

jimi hendrix

[Remember2]

erich, i believe that tim's relationship with the band qualifies this thread for dmbc

[Flschbrger]

Santana and Kirk from Metallica easily

[Minaret26]

the better question would be who isn't better than tim reynolds? i mean he's great and has cool effects and everything, but i think there are tons of better guitarists:
clapton
santana
gilmour
page
anastasio
chuck garvy
garcia
haynes
stevie ray
hendrix
weir (although he is a rhythm)
cobain

and so many more that i'm sure i could name if i sat here and thought about it.

just my 0.019

[perfectturmoil]

Originally posted by Remember2
erich, i believe that tim's relationship with the band qualifies this thread for dmbc

but this thread is not actually about tim.. its about people aside from tim.

and even so, tim should still be in ndmbc

[Erich]

Originally posted by Remember2
erich, i believe that tim's relationship with the band qualifies this thread for dmbc

by two degrees of seperation, as youre asking about guitarests *other* than tim. mentioning tim as the clause for dmbc doesnt work, as this could easily have been "name any really good guitarests" or "name guitar players that are better than eric clapton".

anyway...

Originally posted by ibanezcollector
I mean stream isnt what everyone thinks it is..

ANYONE CAN PLAY FAST. BUT TO PLAY WITH EMOTION IS ANOTHER STORY...

1. stream, the song may be a litte overrated, but stream, the album, *is* what everyone says it is.

2. emotion is relative. tim plays with more emotion than you can imagine, ive seen it 2 feet from my face. He just manifests that emotion into something different than say, david gilmour, who can make you melt with a single note.

you have to be careful when you start saying things that are very subjective, such as what you think everyone thinks or what you think is emotional playing.

[Joe M.]

my vote is for definitly for ndmbc

[Beanz41]

kurt cobain??? are you on crack?!?!?

[Beanz41]

actually, i think this post shoudn't be ndmbc, but it should be in the musician forum. there are people there that are much better equipped to answer a question such as this. and there are less people there who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, but decide to post their opinions anyway.

[Joe M.]

Originally posted by Beanz41
actually, i think this post shoudn't be ndmbc, but it should be in the musician forum. there are people there that are much better equipped to answer a question such as this. and there are less people there who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, but decide to post their opinions anyway.

my bad... your right... it can go there also.... im just so use to saying ndmbc.....

[Erich]

Originally posted by Beanz41
actually, i think this post shoudn't be ndmbc, but it should be in the musician forum. there are people there that are much better equipped to answer a question such as this. and there are less people there who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, but decide to post their opinions anyway.

and that was a surefire asshole response. who the fuck are you to say someone doesnt know what theyre talking about when they put down who they think is a better guitarest? its that persons opinion, and its still going to hold for that person whether or not you dissagree, so get over it.

[liftmeuplove]

someone said warren haynes. yes warren can hang with tim. warren knows the neck of the guitar so well its sick. hes amazing

santana blows the fattest dick ever. i was playin with him one day and i said "hey santana check out this song in dmajor youre a good guitar player solo over it" and he said "no actually i suck i cringe at the word major just change this f# to an f and lets do it in minor becuase honestly if my life was on the line, i couldnt solo in major" i still to this day have heard very few santana major solos

jimi hendrix is the best guitar player ever listen to woodstock improv to see why

kurt cobain power chord power chord distorted solo yeah....

and eric clapton is good, but he isnt better than tim. i mean, i dunno thats a tough one

[Remember2]

by two degrees of seperation, as youre asking about guitarests *other* than tim. mentioning tim as the clause for dmbc doesnt work, as this could easily have been "name any really good guitarests" or "name guitar players that are better than eric clapton".


alright alright i yield! anyway i just didnt see this thread as anything different than who is better than carter or any other band member, but seeing as how tim is not a band member and only an affiliate, i will yield to erich.


by the way,

and that was a surefire asshole response. who the fuck are you to say someone doesnt know what theyre talking about when they put down who they think is a better guitarest? its that persons opinion, and its still going to hold for that person whether or not you dissagree, so get over it.

that is funny as hell

[Air Ick]

Keller Williams

[Coster]

Originally posted by Minaret26
cobainThis has got to be a typo.

My additions to the list:

Eddie Van Halen
Angus Young

[Firedncin8nancy]

im glad people agree with my comment on warren

in my book timmy is one of hte best by the way, he just uses his talent in a weird way if you listen to his albums and songs other than stream and those from D+T shows...

Also, the cobain comment was a tad rediculous, you couldnt possibly argue for cobain over tim, but the rest of your list looked mighty fine

stylistically all of these guitar players are differet.. comparing timmy to clapton is like comparing apples and oranges...

[Beanz41]

Originally posted by Erich


and that was a surefire asshole response. who the fuck are you to say someone doesnt know what theyre talking about when they put down who they think is a better guitarest? its that persons opinion, and its still going to hold for that person whether or not you dissagree, so get over it.

I know my response certainly came off as harsh, but it's only the truth. This thread is about who IS a better guitarist than tim reynolds (i.e. overall skill) not who someone likes better than tim (which would indicate favor of style). All i'm saying is, if you want to know about music, go to the musician forum where the posters are more knowledgable. I apologize if I offended anyone.

[DreamingTree34]

Air Ick..you're right..I've seen Keller Williams live..and even though he uses a lto of effectsand repeat pedals and all that nonsense that I know hardly anyhting about..he still burns up a guitar..he is intense....


and Tim....damn, he's unearthly...any idiot can tap an effects pedal and make cool sounds..Tim not only knows the exact times to use it but he does it so well its unreal....he plays alot of notes..i can think of the name of them...but they are notes that aren't in the scale or what have you that dave is playing...they are like notes that dont belong but the spots where Tim plays them on top of any effects make it sound amazing...he a genious and noone one of this humble plac we call Earth can touch him...Tim is from a distant universe thats noones ever heard of..He's an enigman and noone will ever be able to figure him out or match him:)


Listen to #41, To Touch Yearning, Tripping Billies....I bet you any money a lot of his solos are spur of the moment ones...and to pull off ones of that degree of difficulty ont he spot is insane

[DreamingTree34]

augmented notes...I think thats what they are called...hahaha dont flame me if I'm wrong:D

[chris]

Originally posted by Beanz41
kurt cobain??? are you on crack?!?!?

i agree

no way cobain is(or in this case was)better than tim

[dmbalways]

augmented means #5, you were essentially right

I might be the only one who thinks this, but I think half the guitarists that were named are not better than Tim. I mean c'mon, Eric Clapton cannot read music, he's admitted as much in interviews. Sure he and a lot of those other guitarists can rip penatonic scales fast as fuck, but I don't see where that makes them better. Faster, maybe, but not better. Tim is for damn sure very fast, but he's one of the only guitarists I feel has complete mastery of all that encompasses guitar music.

Rhythm - Rheginos and the Ressurection
Intonation - Loose Interpretations
Speed - Stream

He's a smooth as can be on Wayfarer, and plays with as much emotion as anyone on You are my Sanity. And remember, you don't have to cringe and scream when playing guitar to show emotion.

Another thing, I think if you take a guitar pick out of the hands of those other guitarists, their skill would drop dramatically, whereas Tim can shred a guitar with or without a pick.

I'm not gonna go into anything else, but just say that I think Tim is much better than Warren Haynes, hell of a lot better than Eric Clapton, superior to Steve Vai and SRV. A lot of those other guitarists named I've never heard before. However, I do think that Jimi has him beat all over.

[liftmeuplove]

that was an excellent post. i completely agree with every nuance of it. i approve. and jimi does have him beat.

[ibanezcollector]

to say tim is better than steve vai is just stupid. Tim couldnt hold Vai's well umm guitar.

Vai is one if not the most technical guitarist out there. Tim sounds boring his speed runs sound like shit and are not clear and pronounced. He has no feeling whatso ever hes good but not that good. Vai not only can play with speed and absolute perfect legato. But he plays with emotion too which is something tim lacks. I have seen both and can tell ya tim isnt as great as you may believe. I think alot of people here are doing the old its tim reynolds and he plays with dave so that makes him the best. And thats wrong go download "for the love of god" by vai and you will hear some of the best guitar work ever. That song is simply an amazing display of what a true guitar god is about. Not stream and its sloppy speed picking. And effects covering up his unabilitys.

Tim better than Vai
:lol :lol :lol

[DreamingTree34]

:eek: :eek:

whoa...no emotion?...effects to cover up his inabilities?....i dont know bout that one but hey its all good...:)

[Erich]

yeah, it took me 3 months to really see this comment, but it also bugged me enough to have to reply to it.

You have no idea what emotion tim puts into his music. Ive been around him and have seen him many times and *I* have no idea what emotion he puts into it. All I know is that he does have that emotion and its quite evident. the reason im going to assume you think its emotionaly lacking, ibanez, is because you may notlike his approach compaired to vai or guitarests of the sort. well, I could easyly say vai sounds mechanical and lifeless and his "technical prowess" is a boring and trite attempt at cock rock, but i wont. I'll just say my opinion stands that as an*artist* and as a *guitar player*, tims style and music appeals to me and has more of a dynamic than vai. You, nor anyone else, have any right to make the silly assumption that theres no emotion to something when none of us are in the hsoes of those artists. Its like saying "dave plays with no emotion, hoalloween is just basic screaming over boring chord structure barely held together by an untuned fiddle". you know its not true, but someone else may think it.

In the end tims music has affected me emotionaly, too, and thats something that straight guitar technique cant do. but thats all opinion. Santan does not have the same dynamic as tim nor vai nor many other players, but to say someone like carlos plays with no emotion is to just be oblivious.

[DMBGuitar999]

Other than guitar heroes (Vai, Satch, Malmsteen, Petrucci, SRV, etc.) you can find a shit load of people at your local guitar center that are better than tim. I like the guy and he plays interesting licks...but as far as technicality goes...there are many that are better...In like a year, I wouldn't be surprised at all if I was better. Wow that was cocky...sorry...but like my teacher for an example...could smoke tim like a joint with one hand behind his back.

[Jeffery901]

uhhhhhhh false?

[DMBGuitar999]

uhhhh true....if u are really into the guitar world you'd see what i mean...I'm not saying he's bad...it's just he's not that great...

[darbini]

i forget his name, but he's some german dude, and he's good, really good

[Beanz41]

While Tim is not the greatest guitar player, you do have to admit that he is great. His technical ability is top notch and his creativity is hard to match. Also, he has to be great to get where he has gotten. Not just any schmuck can go out there and launch a solo tour and be successful. And he's not just riding on the steam that dave has given him. I have many friends who are huge guitar enthusiasts who hate dave, but love tim and go to his shows. Bottom line, Tim's skill is undeniable.

[DMBGuitar999]

i respect your opinion.

[Third Floor]

Reggie Wooten.

[dnkband]

I haven't seen the name Al DiMeola on here yet. Shame on all of you. Tim plays a lot like him, except not as well. And I read something on here about Tim being better than Vai, simply not true, Vai is in a different world. This guy practices for like 8 hours a day every day and he went to Berklee so he has a crazy amount of musical knowledge in addition to his knowledge of the guitar. I love the way Tim plays, more so than Vai, but Vai is stupid good.

Doug

[Jeffery901]

Originally posted by DMBGuitar999
uhhhh true....if u are really into the guitar world you'd see what i mean...I'm not saying he's bad...it's just he's not that great...


You have clearly never been to a tim show or heard much of his music.

[DMBGuitar999]

I have seen his leads on dave's songs...not too great... i like that al demola stlyle he uses sometimes (will neverv spell that name right). I have heard stream...that's cool and all...but still you guys...there are so many people out there that are better than him. I'm not saying this because I don't like him or something...I like the guy and his music a lot...but skill wise...he's really not that great...

[soups41]

Monte Montgomery

[mikeo²]

In my humble opinion, Leo Kottke is a very good guitarist.

[dnkband]

Originally posted by DMBGuitar999 I have heard stream...that's cool and all...but still you guys...there are so many people out there that are better than him. I'm not saying this because I don't like him or something...I like the guy and his music a lot...but skill wise...he's really not that great... [/B]


O.K., sorry dude, but Tim is amazing and there aren't many better and the few that are cannot be found at your local Guitar Center (that's like saying you can go to your local Van's Pro Shop and find a golfer better than Tiger Woods), they're found teaching in conservatories, or on the road, or in studio session situations in N.Y. and L.A. Tim has plenty of skill. He has so many tricks in his bag and comes up with new ideas every night and that comes only from years and years of hard work and study. Most people don't put in that kind of time at anything let alone a musical instrument. He doesn't play pentatonic licks at lightning fast speed like most other guitarists because that bores him just like playing 32nd notes on the double-kick pedal bores Carter. Players like that choose to play more tastefully, they don't feel the need to constantly showcase their chops although they can when they want to. I think more than anything else being a good musician is knowing how to pick your spots and play judiciuosly. Anyone can fly up and down the fretboard, and most of the boners at Guitar Center do this and people think they must be great but really they're playing only one of the two or three musical ideas they have, just really fast. So what. Skill is defined not only in technical prowess but in maturity as well and Tim has a lot of both, more so than most other guitarists. That is probably why Dave Matthews chose to play with him when he could have played with any other guitarist. Do you really think that a guy like Dave Matthews would do an acoustic tour with just anyone? Come on now. Dave thinks very highly of Tim, and because Dave is probably, no offense intended, a better musician than you, you may want to take that opinion a bit more seriously. Dave Matthews knows what he's talking about, Tim Reynolds is really, really good.

Forgive me if I came off a little harsh there, my Diamondbacks just lost game 2 and I'm in kind of a bad mood. Thanks for letting me lay down my thoughts.

-Peace
Doug

[Jeffery901]

yea I feel the pain i live in scottsdale

[dleemiller]

if you've ever heard Phil Keaggy do some stuff you'd swear that he is the best....i think that there are numerous better than reynolds...not to say he isnt REALLY good. but i'm partial to clapton.

[msink]

Walter Becker

[bstorey]

Ok, if nothing else this thread has given me some ideas for downloads... Monte Montgomery is f'ing awesome. Wish he had a better singing voice, but wow! Good stuff...

[taylorstone]

NOBODY IS BETTER THAN TIM...IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE GO WATCH TRIPPING BILLIES OFF OF STORYTELLERS!!!!

[DMBGuitar999]

yeah I have watched that...he uses nice ideas...but now that Nobody is Better than TIm.....that's stretching is way too far...again...these are all opinions...you guys can all think I am extremely wrong and that's cool...I just have seen enought great guitarists to know that Tim isn't all that special...he's obviously not bad at all...and he is good and uses cool ideas...but when it comes to who's better than him the list is so long that naming it would take me quite a few days...just my opinion thats pretty close to the truth...and also...for the person who said I am not as good of a musician than Dave...thats very very true...but technically I am better than him at guitar...not at writing stuff...but when it comes to lead playing I know good players when I see themm.....

[dnkband]

Originally posted by taylorstone
NOBODY IS BETTER THAN TIM...IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE GO WATCH TRIPPING BILLIES OFF OF STORYTELLERS!!!!

Hey man-
I feel you, really I do. I wish I could say that nobody is better than Tim but it's simply not true. Tim Reynolds is a phenomenal guitar player but there are plenty of session players who get paid hundreds of dollars an hour because they can do EVERYTHING and they NEVER make mistakes. Your "Trippin' Billies" argument is certainly a good one but listen to any Al DiMeola CD and you say something to the effect of, "Oh yeah, my bad, this guy is better than Tim". Sorry dude, to quote my good friend Bruce Hornsby, "That's just the way it is".

[DMBGuitar999]

yeah funkie junkie or whatever that just posted...you should know what i am talking about...there are tons and tons of guitarists and berklee that could smoke tim...I know a couple of them and jammed with them this summer...and wow...they were a lot lot lot better.

[Erich]

Originally posted by taylorstone
NOBODY IS BETTER THAN TIM...IF YOU WANT TO ARGUE GO WATCH TRIPPING BILLIES OFF OF STORYTELLERS!!!!

im probably one of the biggest fans tim has, and i think there are better guitarests. but my entire point was that a> thats subjective and people shouldnt try and argue their point about whos better, because in the end no one really cares enough to think about anyone elses opinion but their own, and b> no one has the right to assume the level of emotion that a guitarest puts into their music just do to their own personal preferences of the sound.

I like tims guitaring better than every other guitarist ive heard with the one exception of David Gilmour. no ones going to change my mind and im not going to change anyone elses, so why bother?

[moe.ron]

As far as skill wise there are quite a few better than tim though he is amazingly skilled. But where he shines is in originality. Whenever i hear his stuff i think "how the fuck did he come up with that"

[dnkband]

Let me just say I love this topic, it's a fun discussion to be a part of. Everybody is layin' down great takes, good reading, thank you all. This may just be my last take on this subject and I'll leave it at that...Tim is good, others are good too. Tim is better than others, some others are better than Tim (I have seen and heard some of them in person at Berklee, guitar999, or something, is right. And I was the one who said Dave is probably a better musician than you. Sorry - for what it's worth you're obviously quite knowledgeable on this subject. Who am I?).

------------------IT DOESN'T REALLY MATTER-----------------

The great thing about music is that it is not a finite thing. It can be interpreted and felt in so many ways. Sometimes the simplest of songs are more enjoyable than a harmonically complex bebop tune; other times the bebop tune is more enjoyable. Is Dave Matthews a better guitarist than Tim Reynolds? Of cousre not, but at times I would much rather listen to Dave than Tim. That's the beauty of music. I think we all understand this, I just wanted to say it. Thanks to all for the great reading!

[mikeo²]

That was one of the best posts I've read on here.... :hug

[Cordevil95]

Originally posted by ibanezcollector
to say tim is better than steve vai is just stupid. Tim couldnt hold Vai's well umm guitar.

Vai is one if not the most technical guitarist out there. Tim sounds boring his speed runs sound like shit and are not clear and pronounced. He has no feeling whatso ever hes good but not that good. Vai not only can play with speed and absolute perfect legato. But he plays with emotion too which is something tim lacks. I have seen both and can tell ya tim isnt as great as you may believe. I think alot of people here are doing the old its tim reynolds and he plays with dave so that makes him the best. And thats wrong go download "for the love of god" by vai and you will hear some of the best guitar work ever. That song is simply an amazing display of what a true guitar god is about. Not stream and its sloppy speed picking. And effects covering up his unabilitys.

Tim better than Vai
:lol :lol :lol

I hope wher you come from the words "boring" and "shit" are positive words. Anyways, one thing that stands out in your post was the "I think alot of people here are doing the old its tim reynolds and he plays with dave so that makes him the best' comment." That is far from the truth. Dave Matthews probably turned most of us on to Tim Reynolds music, but we don't think he's the best or one of the best simply because he is affiliated with Dave Matthews. If that were true everyone here would LOVE the lovely ladies. And the fact that the only Tim song you mentioned was Stream tells me you haven't really listened to any of Reynold's solo work.

Now... who is better than Tim? I'm sure there are several. But if anyone asks me who the best guitarists is out there I will always answer the same.... Tim Reynolds

[dleemiller]

gotta love pat kirtley and bill mize on the fingerstyle

don ross is good too

[Holla9]

Jimmy Page

Jimmy Page owns .

[Chaykak]

I'd say Justin King is pretty damn good in his own right. Just to add to the list, though, there's really no comparison between anyone.

[unccrombie]

sergovia (sp?)

[mgeorge]

anyone actually like Tims music and not Dave and Tim's music? Tim's solo stuff is just....messed up.

Shouldn't 'musical taste' or 'musical sense' count towards or against someones ability as a guitarist, for a guitarist is a musician?

Therefore I don't think there should be any argument. Tons of guitarists out there are better

Clapton, Paige, Sergovia, Hendrix

just my humble opinion

[dmb16]

we have established there are better players

i think a better question would have been is there anyone better than hendrix?

i know a lot of people don't like his music, but his playing is amazing and i personally don't think that anyone has been or is better

SRV is the only one i can think of that has gotten close, but he still didn't get very close

[Haiku Jimi]

kurt cobain??? are you on crack?!?!?

:lol

Songwriter MAYBE. Not player. Those are two different things. I love the music Matthews writes but to say he's one the best guitar players is idiotic. Same with Cobain.

[GLR87]

Greg Riccardi is much better, hes not very well know

[fatjack]

sergovia (sp?)

segovia

and whoever said angus young is better is nuts

here is who i think is better

Wes Montegomery
Django Reinhardt
Joe Pass
Al di Meola
Michael Hedges
Leo Kottke

[Afoolsmistake]

actually, i think this post shoudn't be ndmbc, but it should be in the musician forum. there are people there that are much better equipped to answer a question such as this. and there are less people there who have absolutely no idea what they're talking about, but decide to post their opinions anyway.
Def Sure Fire asshole response... I've been playing guitar Since I was 10 and I Barely everpost in the "musicians" Forum.. give your Ego a rest and deal with the fact that there are people on here that probably know more about music then you do... Who are not Jazzoid Wannabes..:BANG

[MistreatedLewis]

With all due respect, and I agree that emotion is more important, Dave cannot play fast...

Wes Montgomery
Joe Pass
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Jason Becker
Eric Johnson
John Petrucci
Stevie Ray Vaughan

The list gos on. As much as I love tim hes no where near the greats. Hes a little sloppy here and there and sometimes his solo stuff doesnt even sound good. I mean stream isnt what everyone thinks it is..

ANYONE CAN PLAY FAST. BUT TO PLAY WITH EMOTION IS ANOTHER STORY...

[mattc]

I'd say Justin King is pretty damn good in his own right. Just to add to the list, though, there's really no comparison between anyone.

totally agree. saw him play this summer. very cool style, technical and creative.

[FunkyNewGod]

Derek Trucks

[DMBFan920]

Yngwie Malmsteen!!!

[jprzybys]

Micheal Hedges

[fatjack]

Def Sure Fire asshole response... I've been playing guitar Since I was 10 and I Barely everpost in the "musicians" Forum.. give your Ego a rest and deal with the fact that there are people on here that probably know more about music then you do... Who are not Jazzoid Wannabes..:BANG

thanks for assuming i dont know shit about music and using the condescending quotation marks to describe the people in this forum. perhaps you should check your ego

[jeremy_9]

Huh alot of people,. no doubt he is a master guitar player but to say hes the best thing around is an uneducated statement. But also being a good guitar plaer is not how many noted you can play quickly or etc, l say its how a person expressives themselves through the instrument that truly makes them stand out. My examples of that are people like chet atkins, eric clapton,mark knoffler,bb king, django rhienhardt etc etc.

[gutarplayr]

i actually think that robert randolph has a lot of skill

[penn darvis]

Check out Robert Fripp. He's an extremely good guitarst. He uses New Standard Tuning most of the time, so his playing style is extremely complicated and different from most of the other artists out there.

[penn darvis]

anyone actually like Tims music and not Dave and Tim's music? Tim's solo stuff is just....messed up.

Shouldn't 'musical taste' or 'musical sense' count towards or against someones ability as a guitarist, for a guitarist is a musician?

Therefore I don't think there should be any argument. Tons of guitarists out there are better

Clapton, Paige, Sergovia, Hendrix

just my humble opinion
I think its the opposite. Going with commonly accepted musical tendencies makes you less of a guitar player because you are unable to think for yourself and simply do what others have already done. Copying other's styles is not what makes a guitarist great. Even if you don't like Tim's solo stuff like Astral Projection/Chaos View or even his acoustic stuff, you have to admit that his style is original and he does not do what others do, even if he does borrow certain things from other artists.

[tripngrey]

Darth Vader.

[jigger_3]

and that was a surefire asshole response. who the fuck are you to say someone doesnt know what theyre talking about when they put down who they think is a better guitarest? its that persons opinion, and its still going to hold for that person whether or not you dissagree, so get over it.

Sounds like you are making the "surefire asshole response" yourself

[jigger_3]

crap, didn't realize there were four pages already. maybe I'm the ass now

[Dr. Strangelove]

david gilmour. best guitarest alive, in my humble opinion.


Woohoo!
;)

[elf]

This italian guy a friend of mine showed me is amazing...I can't spell his name so i'll just spell it phonetically.

Burrelli Legrin

Keller Williams

Pat Methaney

[bigeyedharper]

I think the problem with this thread is not that its subjective, but rather that most people have only been exposed to certain types of music/guitarists. For example, ppl who are saying Tim is the best guitarist ever have probably listened to a ton of Tim Reynolds and not much of say Vai or King. Those saying Justin King is better, probably have listened to a lot of King play and not much Reynolds. The same goes for any number of guitarists. The more you listen to these great amazing guitarists, the better you believe them to be because youi pick up on some of the subtlies of their music.

for the record, i love tim, but I don't think he is the greatest guitarist ever. He is great, just not the greatest.

[bluwaterbaboon]

tim is easily one of the 100 best ever, but not even close to being better than:SRV, Page, Vai, Wes Montgomery, David Gilmour, Joe Satriani, Jason Becker, Eric Johnson, John Petrucci, SANTANA!, ZAPPA!!

[Chaykak]

i actually think that robert randolph has a lot of skill
Damn right, great on that steel guitar :D Always makes me want to try to pick up how to play, but it's tough >>;

[Kragh]

SRV will always be my top guitarist, even though hendrix was better. I think in some ways SRV was better than hendrix, but we gotta give respect for Jimi because he pretty much started this whole guitar god thing. I love timmy, and I think hes amazing, but you just cant put him by number 1, well not yet. Theres way too many others out there, whether dead or alive, too many good guitarists that have been around for decades.

[cpowell747]

name better guitarists if any
Chet Atkins
Mark Knopfler
Check out "Klimbim" by Don Ross AMAZING!
Also most people point out these popular guitarists from all of these famous rock bands. I would dare to say that the guitarists you hear in the background on the weather Channel are far better than most of the guitarists that have been listed on these posts.

[Proof2k3]

david gilmour. best guitarest alive, in my humble opinion.
I agree.

[DMBfan41]

Someguy named Jimi Hendrix. You may have heard of him. A Little bit of a up and comer, but a few years, he'll be huge.

[dmb16]

i think there are millions of people better at the guitar than tim

and i think that a lot of them arent actually technically better, just make it sound better

someone said that cobain wasnt a great guitarist, but i disagree, he made simple yet perfect guitar parts for each of his songs

it doesnt have to be terribly complicated to be good, it doesnt even have to be technically advanced

some of the best songs are really simple, even though they may not seem like it. for example voodoo child by hendrix. its really simple if you take a close look at it, even the solos.

i think the reason hendrix, srv, page, and clapton are traditionally regarded as the best is not because they are technically the best players but that they have the ability to play amazing guitar, whether it is technically advanced or not

not to say that tim doesnt play well, he just doesnt play music that is traditionally "good", its more, well crazy i guess, not saying that thats bad, cause hendrix did the same, but less apealling


i think a lot of the people that people are naming are great guitarists, but that doesnt necassarily make them good musicians

kind of along the lines of a concert violinist. a lot of them are excellent. they can play the most difficult mozart without thinking. they can play anything in fact, no matter how hard. but when it comes to writing they might play well but not make music well. understand? they are good players but not good musicians

[chiznaz]

I'm just going to add BB King. His music explains itself. The man is amazing and took blues to a whole new level. I got a chance to see him play this past fall, and the guy is incredible to watch play. Even at his age now, the guy can play a show that goes well past midnight which is amazing to me.

[cosmiccharlie]

Great thread! With that said, there have been alot of great guitarists named and I think that it is difficult to name who is the best because there are different styles involved. Trey just blows me away with his improv. But, that does not mean he is the best. I personally like Robert Johnson, Jeff Beck, Tim Reynolds, Trey, and Duanne Allman's slide.

[Kragh]

Crap how could I forget Duane Allman, the mans amazing. Best slide guitarist ever!!

[penn darvis]

Someguy named Jimi Hendrix. You may have heard of him. A Little bit of a up and comer, but a few years, he'll be huge.
Heard he's a little sloppy with his playing though.

[Dr. Strangelove]

Heard he's a little sloppy with his playing though.

Don't hit me or anything, but Tim's not?

[penn darvis]

Don't hit me or anything, but Tim's not?
Not as sloppy as Jimi. Tim is able to carry out his songs which are more complex than Jimi's with fewer errors and mistakes. Tim can also improv better. However, if you are talking about someone who completely reinvented the instrument, Jimi completely changed the way guitar is played.

[Proof2k3]

Tim can also improv better.
A very very subjective statement.

[fatjack]

Heard he's a little sloppy with his playing though.


but thats just because of the acid

the nuances in his playing are pretty difficult to mimic, Tim on the other hand is a little easier to do so

[twojump]

Phil Keaggy Christian Music but some damn good guitar playing for having a crippled hand

[ZanerDMB91]

Timmy's style as a lead guitarist to the Dave Matthews Band to me, at least...is unparalled. I can't way whats right or wrong, I mean, thats just plain arrogant of us to assume that these players are better than each other, but from my experience, and I've heard pretty much all the guitarists have been mentioned...no one gets my toe tapping like Tim Reynolds.

[jrizzy559]

yeah i know im a little late posting on this thread but id have to say tim is awesome and few acoustic players come close...but i would have to say better than him. or in fact probably one of if not the best guitarists(in any style:rock, folk, acoustic, or even classical) Phil Keaggy, hands down! that man is amazing!

[Dancing Ants]

Jake Cinninger, from the band Umphrey's McGee, is probably one of the best active guitarists around. He's probably the best overall musician on this scene that many of us are involved in (jam scene). The guy plays pretty much every instrument, and his speed on the guitar is really unparalleled as of late. And there's a lot of soul in that playing, because, unlike what a lot of people are saying on here, not just anyone can play at super fast speeds. It takes a LOT of training, and some luck. I'd put him up against anyone.

[FrankTheTank]

Jake Cinninger, from the band Umphrey's McGee, is probably one of the best active guitarists around. He's probably the best overall musician on this scene that many of us are involved in (jam scene). The guy plays pretty much every instrument, and his speed on the guitar is really unparalleled as of late. And there's a lot of soul in that playing, because, unlike what a lot of people are saying on here, not just anyone can play at super fast speeds. It takes a LOT of training, and some luck. I'd put him up against anyone. i concur. a close second to jake would be jon "the barber" gutwillig from the disco biscuits (for a glimpse of his compositional proficiency check out "the overture") and chuck garvey of moe. something that most people don't realize is that bayliss and jaco aren't that far apart "skill" wise on the guitar. jake just takes more leads. listen to any fussy dutchman, N2F, or 2x2 and tell me bayliss isn't the shit. jaco's speed on songs like phil's farm is uncanny.

[Dancing Ants]

i'll toss Jerry Garcia in there. it's not as easy to play as it sounds.

[TheRealGuyute]

Has anyone mentioned Tommy Emmanuel, Leo Kottke, Jorma Kaukonen, Pete Huttlinger? IMO, Tim doesn't even fall in the top 50 acoustic players.

[jester29]

I think Tim is overrated. He's a good guitarist, sure, but I think his phrasing and overall playing can be too technical...

i think there are millions of people better at the guitar than tim
and i think that a lot of them arent actually technically better, just make it sound better. someone said that cobain wasnt a great guitarist, but i disagree, he made simple yet perfect guitar parts for each of his songs

it doesnt have to be terribly complicated to be good, it doesnt even have to be technically advanced

some of the best songs are really simple, even though they may not seem like it. for example voodoo child by hendrix. its really simple if you take a close look at it, even the solos.

i think the reason hendrix, srv, page, and clapton are traditionally regarded as the best is not because they are technically the best players but that they have the ability to play amazing guitar, whether it is technically advanced or not

not to say that tim doesnt play well, he just doesnt play music that is traditionally "good", its more, well crazy i guess, not saying that thats bad, cause hendrix did the same, but less apealling


i think a lot of the people that people are naming are great guitarists, but that doesnt necassarily make them good musicians

kind of along the lines of a concert violinist. a lot of them are excellent. they can play the most difficult mozart without thinking. they can play anything in fact, no matter how hard. but when it comes to writing they might play well but not make music well. understand? they are good players but not good musicians


Excellent post... :)

[greenpick41]

Regi Wooten is the best one I've ever seen.

[onemanguitarban]

I didn't take the time to read all those listed so far, but I was surprised to actually see a few good ones on this page. I'll mention some more. Tim is good, not great, doesn't make the top 200, no question about it.

Phil Keaggy - was glad to seem him mentioned, makes tim look like an amateur

Michael Hedges - same thing
Leo Kottke
Doyle Dykes
Pat Metheny
Chris Proctor
Trey Anastasio
Larry Carlton
Peppeno Degustio (sp?)
Martin Simpson
Zappa
Satriani
Vai
SRV
Al Demoli (sp?)
John McGlochlim (sp?)
Knopfler
Derek Trucks
Warren Haynes
Jeff Beck
Jimmy Page
Clapton
Chet Atkins
Jason Becker
Eric Johnson
Adrian Bledow
Allen Holdsworth
Gilmour
Jimmy Herring
Jerry Garcia
John Scofield
Joe Pass
Wes Montgomery
Regi Wooten (saw him mentioned as well, he taught Vic)


Just to name a few off the top of my head, are all better than Tim.

[TheRealGuyute]

Man, I completely forgot a few on that list. Here's one you may have forgotten. Monte Montgomery. If you want to know what I'm talking about, just check this link. I watched it and wanted to turn my guitar into a planter.

http://truefire.com/bm_optin.html

[UglyNakedGuy]

david gilmour. best guitarest alive, in my humble opinion.

Don't agree with the thread or have anything to contribute? Don't post. All you do is cause problems.

[Kjudkins]

Wes Montgomery
Joe Pass
Steve Vai
Joe Satriani
Jason Becker
Eric Johnson
John Petrucci
Stevie Ray Vaughan

The list gos on. As much as I love tim hes no where near the greats. Hes a little sloppy here and there and sometimes his solo stuff doesnt even sound good. I mean stream isnt what everyone thinks it is..

ANYONE CAN PLAY FAST. BUT TO PLAY WITH EMOTION IS ANOTHER STORY...

uhm...all steve vai, joe satriani, jason becker and joe pass are fast playing guitar. its just them playing and soloing..i have seen like one bass solo in satriani but other than that its all the guitarists. it gets old.

and with that said, i have never gotten tired of tim. you obviously dont actually listen to him when hes playing with dave. hes mainly improving while playing with dave. i never realayl noticed and didnt think it was that complicated till i tried learning some of his stuff. hes really good is wat im saying.

btw, its A LOT harder to play fast picking on the acoustic than having the distortion up wicked high on the eletric just doing pull offs and hammer ons

another side note =/ there are many many different qualities in making a good guitarist. so eventually it just comes down to who you like listening to the most and the longest.

[Kjudkins]

man to the ppl who said steve vai, joe satriani and all those solo guitarists...they always have to play fast in their songs. i dont know of one song when they didnt. i mean even when satriani redid Somewhere over the rainbow he had to add a bunch of really fast parts that wernt even improved...

playing fast gets boring relaly fast (to me anyway). its just fun to play fast becuase ppl will think you are the shit.

[Kjudkins]

i think there are millions of people better at the guitar than tim

and i think that a lot of them arent actually technically better, just make it sound better

someone said that cobain wasnt a great guitarist, but i disagree, he made simple yet perfect guitar parts for each of his songs

it doesnt have to be terribly complicated to be good, it doesnt even have to be technically advanced

some of the best songs are really simple, even though they may not seem like it. for example voodoo child by hendrix. its really simple if you take a close look at it, even the solos.

i think the reason hendrix, srv, page, and clapton are traditionally regarded as the best is not because they are technically the best players but that they have the ability to play amazing guitar, whether it is technically advanced or not

not to say that tim doesnt play well, he just doesnt play music that is traditionally "good", its more, well crazy i guess, not saying that thats bad, cause hendrix did the same, but less apealling


i think a lot of the people that people are naming are great guitarists, but that doesnt necassarily make them good musicians

kind of along the lines of a concert violinist. a lot of them are excellent. they can play the most difficult mozart without thinking. they can play anything in fact, no matter how hard. but when it comes to writing they might play well but not make music well. understand? they are good players but not good musicians

yea...exactly i wish i read this before i posted so i coudl have just done this

[lowis5]

I'm surprised almost nobody has mentioned classical guitarists, only Andres Segovia has been mentioned. In my case, when I heard classical guitar a whole new world opened. hendrix, page, gilmour, etc. yes they are excellent in their style but they don't come close to the overall musicianship of Agustin Barrios-Mangore (not only his execution but his compositional skills) , Andres Segovia, Pepe Romero, Assad brothers, David Russell, Remi Boucher (his transcription of Concierto de Aranjuez for solo guitar is unbelievable), Julian Bream, etc. It's amazing how many different sounds can be produced with an acoustic guitar and no effects. Anyway, if someone is downloading from the suggestions in this thread check these out:
Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Tárrega)
La Catedral (Mangore)
Granada (Albeniz)

[jester29]

I'm surprised almost nobody has mentioned classical guitarists, only Andres Segovia has been mentioned. In my case, when I heard classical guitar a whole new world opened. hendrix, page, gilmour, etc. yes they are excellent in their style but they don't come close to the overall musicianship of Agustin Barrios-Mangore (not only his execution but his compositional skills) , Andres Segovia, Pepe Romero, Assad brothers, David Russell, Remi Boucher (his transcription of Concierto de Aranjuez for solo guitar is unbelievable), Julian Bream, etc. It's amazing how many different sounds can be produced with an acoustic guitar and no effects. Anyway, if someone is downloading from the suggestions in this thread check these out:
Recuerdos de la Alhambra (Tárrega)
La Catedral (Mangore)
Granada (Albeniz)'

Excellent point. Tarrega's Recuerdos de la Alhambra is awesome. I'm also quite familiar with Granada. I'll have to look for Catedral.

Tim has a very niche style. Some love it, some hate it. I think it's fair to say, though, that there's a world of other guitarists out there that are at least equally worth listening to. Don't limit yourselves... :)

[Feelinhigh]

Don Ross is a badass (rtsp://audio.npr.org/wesun/20010722.dross.vid.rm)

He talks on the video for a while then he plays a song, check it out its worth it. He was the world fingerpicking champ for a while, im not sure if he still is. Also he has some good stories on his website.

Don Ross Official Website (http://www.gobyfish.com)

[whoisthisis]

Don Ross is a badass (rtsp://audio.npr.org/wesun/20010722.dross.vid.rm)

He talks on the video for a while then he plays a song, check it out its worth it. He was the world fingerpicking champ for a while, im not sure if he still is. Also he has some good stories on his website.

Don Ross Official Website (http://www.gobyfish.com/)

I'm a big fan of his, I'm surprised more people don't know about him. He combines emotion and technical prowess as well as anyone.

[AcousTronic]

Dude, Tim is way over rated... He is a great backup for Dave's songs, but I have yet to hear any of his originals that don't sound like mindless fast picking and emotionless trash.

If Dave never made it big, no one would know who 'Tim Reynolds' was.

[satellitedmb40]

Dude, Tim is way over rated... He is a great backup for Dave's songs, but I have yet to hear any of his originals that don't sound like mindless fast picking and emotionless trash.

If Dave never made it big, no one would know who 'Tim Reynolds' was.

have you ever seen him in concert? backup for dave's songs?? all I know is, when I saw tim in july, I left that place feeling incredible. You can judge his music with dave all you want, but to see him in concert, you would have to put your foot in your mouth. he may not be the best but to me he is up there with the greats.

[AcousTronic]

have you ever seen him in concert? backup for dave's songs?? all I know is, when I saw tim in july, I left that place feeling incredible. You can judge his music with dave all you want, but to see him in concert, you would have to put your foot in your mouth. he may not be the best but to me he is up there with the greats.

That's cool... Music is all about evoking emotion. I have not seen him live, but I would if he came down this way.

It's just that people freak out about Tim, and I have seen and heard better... Tommy Emmanuel is about the best acoustic player on the planet, before him Michael Hedges was tearing it up like no other. The list goes on... Maybe I need to listen to more of Tim's music to truly judge, but to me it seems that he just crams as many notes into a bar as possible. Like I said, his "Dave and Tim" solos are nothing short of INCREDIBLE, but his originals leave me wanting to shut off my speakers.

[satellitedmb40]

That's cool... Music is all about evoking emotion. I have not seen him live, but I would if he came down this way.

It's just that people freak out about Tim, and I have seen and heard better... Tommy Emmanuel is about the best acoustic player on the planet, before him Michael Hedges was tearing it up like no other. The list goes on... Maybe I need to listen to more of Tim's music to truly judge, but to me it seems that he just crams as many notes into a bar as possible. Like I said, his "Dave and Tim" solos are nothing short of INCREDIBLE, but his originals leave me wanting to shut off my speakers.

:thumbsup I respect your opinion. And thanks to everyone on here listing musicians "better" than tim. I can't say they're better or worse until I hear them and that's my intention. Music doesn't have to be about who's best or who doesn't deserve their fame. I think dave's quote is appropriate for this, when he said good music is good music. All the rest can go to hell.

[Stream #41]

Just wanted to recommened a great CD I purchased last week "Friday Night In San Francisco" with Al Di Meola, John McLaughlin and Paco De Lucia. Some absolutely amazing guitar playing on that disc.

[caine3320]

Ok, I just want to say first off that I work in the pipe organ business, so I use my ears for a living. That said, I'm pretty picky about who I listen to. Whoever said that no one gets their toes tappin' like Timmy is someone I can agree with. I was kinda surprised that in all five pages of this thread, Tommy Emmanuel got mentioned only twice...he and Chet Atkins did a pretty cool fingerpicking album a couple years back that blew my mind...

Some people may not think that Tim's playing is the cleanest or the fastest or the prettiest, but his mastery of harmonies and chord progressions can make me listen to the same song for a week and still tear up in the same places. His solo stuff is outstanding, IMO, mostly because of the whole one-man-band thing he has going...

Also, whoever said that SRV came close to (but never succeeded) Hendrix should get their favorite version of Hendrix's Voodoo Child and listen to it, then get themselves a copy of SRV at the second Montreaux (sp?) festival he played, and tell me it isn't cleaner, more refined, and just an all around better version of the song... at least, I think it is. Hendrix may have been the first guitar god, but that doesn't automatically make him the best, or the only, god of the frets.

[yanks111]

Hey guys, I just signed up at this site, and felt my first response should go into this thread because alot of the posts are hilarious.

The problem is that everyone likes a different style of playing, and to some one guitarist appeals more than another. Also, you have a lot of fans who might not have the same exposure to a wide range of guitarists as some others do.

Let me use me and my friend as an example:

Me: I started by listening to classic rock, enlarged my music collection with grunge, then added Dave Matthews after I saw him live. I then explored Tim Reynolds and came to this conclusion: He is a great guitarist, if he managed to string together a rock band he could rake in some serious cash. BUT, to say Tim is on the level of Clapton, Page, Gilmour, Hendrix, hell even Tom Morello is almost absurd.

Tim has nothing on Clapton's songs Layla, Badge, Crossroads, White Room and even a song like Tears in Heaven. Clapton playing these songs live is amazing watching him, he looks like he is putting his entire heart in, hitting all the notes, no mistakes, and on the acoustic stuff like Tears in Heaven, he is usually about to cry.

Jimmy Page, well, damn, just look at Zeppelin's library. Heartbreaker, Black Dog, Bron-Y-Aur Stomp, Achilles Last Stand, In My Time of Dying...Uncomparable. I'm sure Tim dreams of being as good as Page.

Gilmour, well, lets just say he makes Tim become comfortably numb and wishes he were here.

Tom Morello, most of you here probably dont know much of his work outside of Rage Against the Machine / Audioslave, but the man can do amazing things with the guitar. Watching him slap the strings and picking with the same hand, whipping his fingers around the fret board, all while using both feet to play with wah pedals and phasers. And to add to his skill, he can play the nastiest solo ever, or even the simplest solo with just an open string, and make it so hard that guitar players have one hell of a time emulating it. I would say Morello and Tim are about equal creative wise, but I give Morello the edge simply because I like his music more.



Now, my friend is a hardcore DMB fan, moreso than me. He thinks Tim Reynolds is the greatest guitar player to walk this earth. His arrogance has led to such comments degrading Page, Clapton, and Hendrix because he just has no experience with their music outside of 3 or 4 hit tunes.

I personally think alot of people here fall under the category of my friend. I completely respect your opinion as much as the next, but when saying Tim is the best, you have to acknowledge the fact that there are others out there who are just as good, if not better

Oh, and just to let you guys know what I think about Reynolds, he is better solo. I really dont like his playing with Dave, except when its just the two of them. The only time I really enjoyed the soloing in a Dave songs is at Central park with Warren Haynes, and All Along the Watchtower with Carlos Santana. Other than those two cases, I like Dave without any guests :hump

[Pat M]

TOMMY EMMANUEL

[Pat M]

oh, and was jeff beck mentioned?

[Kjudkins]

im better than tim

hhahhahHAHhahahAHhAHhahahahah:hug

[Kjudkins]

oh, and was jeff beck mentioned?

doesnt jeff beck just play really fast for the most part? i havent heard his stuff in awile so i kind of forgot


and the steve vai thing..he plays really fast, thats about it. he used to practice 8 hours a day, yes, but he did it alone. whenever he plays hes ALWAYS the spotlight, hes ALWAYS playing as fast as possible and its always about HIM HIM HIM. i would so much rather play with tim than vai. vai gets boring anyway.

so go timmy, yay for timmy, YEA TIMMY.

[Pat M]

doesnt jeff beck just play really fast for the most part? i havent heard his stuff in awile so i kind of forgot.

short answer: no, not at all.

[Dancing Ants]

Tim has nothing on Clapton's songs Layla, Badge, Crossroads, White Room and even a song like Tears in Heaven. Clapton playing these songs live is amazing watching him, he looks like he is putting his entire heart in, hitting all the notes, no mistakes, and on the acoustic stuff like Tears in Heaven, he is usually about to cry.


just to point out....

layla's main riff and most of the music was written by duane allman. badge was written with george harrison, crossroads is actually written by robert johnson...don't get me wrong, i love clapton, he's probably my fave guitarist, but most of those songs were written with/by someone else.

[jimibadfish]

Has anyone mentioned Prince?

[jessicaashley31]

name better guitarists if any
So silly...this thread should've been titled..."who's your favorite guitarist?"

[djmmjd]

Like someone said first, there is no way to judge due to so many circumstances like stylistic differences....you just can't gauge. However, I do feel there are some better/in the same range as Timmy.
Wes Montgomery
Al Dimeola
Paco de Lucia
Monte Montegomery
Tony Emmanuel
Pat Metheny
Scofield
Hendrix
Les Paul
SRV
van halen, satriani, malmsteen
I'm gonna stop...there's a million, many whom you or I have never heard of...its not worth it.

However, I will say that Timmy is one of my personal favorites and I feel he is by far the best accompanying guitar player ever. No one I have ever heard is as good as complementing/supplementing another player to make them sound better as well as rip great solos, etc. But he puts the unified sound first, and you can hear that in his playing w/ Dave and takes a lot of humility as wisdom.

[MonkeySex]

Did anyone mention Stanley Jordan? If not...Stanley Jordan

[LittleDreamer]

Dude, Tim is way over rated... He is a great backup for Dave's songs, but I have yet to hear any of his originals that don't sound like mindless fast picking and emotionless trash.

If Dave never made it big, no one would know who 'Tim Reynolds' was.


No offence or anything but have you ever listened to Nomadic Wavelength?
Try listening to Enity or And Then They were Free or High in the west. Im not saying that you dont but if you listen to an entire Tim Cd with an open mind then you will appreciate his music a little more.

[SpencerDS]

see what all those guys like angus young and tehm can do on an acoustic, and whoever said stream aint that great, you make that shit up.

[Carbon Copy]

see what all those guys like angus young and tehm can do on an acoustic, and whoever said stream aint that great, you make that shit up.

angus is overrated

[HolyCow]

You may laugh at first but if you have ever heard a tasty lick by him, Kyle Gass from Tenacious D is pretty freakin good.

[The Onion]

Pat Metheny.

[Carbon Copy]

You may laugh at first but if you have ever heard a tasty lick by him, Kyle Gass from Tenacious D is pretty freakin good.

im defiently not laughing

[LittleDreamer]

This is retarted. Tim is not over rated. I just saw him in Spokane and he is simply stunning. His improv is very unique and songs are mindblowing. In my "Opinion" i think that Tim is better than a lot of people that were mentioned in this thread like: Hendrix, Leo Kottke, Aldimiola and others. Untill you listen to some of his concerts and many of his albums do say someone is better than tim.