Taylor W65 12-String

[born 1991]

You know what I'm talking about - the LWS guitar. I really want a 12 string guitar with that sound. Pretty much all 12 strings seem like their sound just kind of melts into indistinctive chords that are just warm and overwhelming. But tLWS is the only time I've heard that distinct, cold, snapping sound. Maybe people just don't like that kind of sound, because I find it really hard to believe there's no 12 string out there that sounds similar. I know this is a really obscure question, but are there ANY affordable guitars that sound like that, did Dave use a weird kind of string or effect to create that, or is it just in a world of its own?

Thanks a lot guys.

[KMHeiman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbqVFuWyHuE

These guys usually seem to know what they're talking about.

[VanHorneDog]

no its all how dave hits the strings... jesh.

[born 1991]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbqVFuWyHuE

These guys usually seem to know what they're talking about.

True, but they don't answer the question I had. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 12 string warp without the extra 6 strings on it?

no its all how dave hits the strings... jesh.

Hahaha you're like my thread buddy. Always have an answer. Well how does he play it that makes it different than everyone else?

[pig494]

I think some of that sound in the tLWS is the fact it isn't fully mastered and i'm also guessing some is due to the pre or possible effect he is running it through. He is using the exact same guitar on all the 12 string songs of Busted Stuff and it sounds different and more natural

My buddy has played this guitar quite a few times and is thinking about buying it. It has real good tone at a good price

http://www.alvarezgtr.com/prod_page.php?SeriesID=3&ItemID=183

[born 1991]

I think some of that sound in the tLWS is the fact it isn't fully mastered and i'm also guessing some is due to the pre or possible effect he is running it through. He is using the exact same guitar on all the 12 string songs of Busted Stuff and it sounds different and more natural

My buddy has played this guitar quite a few times and is thinking about buying it. It has real good tone at a good price

http://www.alvarezgtr.com/prod_page.php?SeriesID=3&ItemID=183

Yeah, you're probably right about the effect. My friend told me he thinks it's the walnut top more than anything that makes that sound. But it sounds too, I don't know, weird i guess to be the result of the wood. Maybe he's using a strange kind of metal for his strings? Probably just an effect though.

How much is that? It looks pretty nice, but... And what's it sound like?

[ShamikRocks]

You know what I'm talking about - the LWS guitar. I really want a 12 string guitar with that sound. Pretty much all 12 strings seem like their sound just kind of melts into indistinctive chords that are just warm and overwhelming. But tLWS is the only time I've heard that distinct, cold, snapping sound. Maybe people just don't like that kind of sound, because I find it really hard to believe there's no 12 string out there that sounds similar. I know this is a really obscure question, but are there ANY affordable guitars that sound like that, did Dave use a weird kind of string or effect to create that, or is it just in a world of its own?

Thanks a lot guys.

I've felt that Tim Reynolds in the newer D+T Sounds like that (Take the April 6th Show at IU last year)

Maybe you should find out what he uses.

[GraceIsGone40]

It is either an effect, or somehow the result of tLWS being an unmastered album. I think it also may have happened during the "unofficial" mastering that Karmaggedon (SP?) did. Either way, it definitely isn't the W65 by itself.

[pig494]

Yeah, you're probably right about the effect. My friend told me he thinks it's the walnut top more than anything that makes that sound. But it sounds too, I don't know, weird i guess to be the result of the wood. Maybe he's using a strange kind of metal for his strings? Probably just an effect though.

How much is that? It looks pretty nice, but... And what's it sound like?

I think that guitar is around $550 or $600. Not a bad price. I'm a drummer and only play a little guitar but I play with a lot of people and know more than the average non player (or so i think:D). It has a really nice smooth 12 string sound to it. Not to bright, not to deep. I like it, I think my buddy is going to buy it. Alvarez makes a good guitar for the price.

[pig494]

Here is a video of the maple back and side version of that guitar. Kind of a lame vid but it gives you an idea. The Rosewood should give you a little deeper, darker sounding tone than the maple but still bright and crisp. I liked the sound of the rosewood when I heard it. But like I said, I'm a drummer haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFzJSsE8cTI

[born 1991]

Here is a video of the maple back and side version of that guitar. Kind of a lame vid but it gives you an idea. The Rosewood should give you a little deeper, darker sounding tone than the maple but still bright and crisp. I liked the sound of the rosewood when I heard it. But like I said, I'm a drummer haha

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFzJSsE8cTI

I definitely like that one's acoustic sound, but the electric just ain't doin it for me. I would love to hear how it sounded with distortion though.

[VanHorneDog]

True, but they don't answer the question I had. And correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a 12 string warp without the extra 6 strings on it?



Hahaha you're like my thread buddy. Always have an answer. Well how does he play it that makes it different than everyone else?

well i was slightly joking, but dave does have a style that has a lot to do with how he hits the strings with his right hand and pick. there are a lot of muted notes thrown into his songs that are typically not tabbed otu when people tab the song. simply becuase they change so often from version to version. it may have to do with how sloppy dave is at guitar or how he likes his songs to sound and it is hard to repeat perfectly.\

i wouldnt call it different than everybody else, but he seems to lean on it. for example look at Granny or JTR. there are lots of little mutes and string clips that really give the songs a much fuller tone than what is typically tabbed.

Granny is a great example. although that has little to do with his 12 String, Grey Street isnt a bad example either.

[dmbigeyedphish]

i'll sell you mine for 2750

[born 1991]

well i was slightly joking, but dave does have a style that has a lot to do with how he hits the strings with his right hand and pick. there are a lot of muted notes thrown into his songs that are typically not tabbed otu when people tab the song. simply becuase they change so often from version to version. it may have to do with how sloppy dave is at guitar or how he likes his songs to sound and it is hard to repeat perfectly.\

i wouldnt call it different than everybody else, but he seems to lean on it. for example look at Granny or JTR. there are lots of little mutes and string clips that really give the songs a much fuller tone than what is typically tabbed.

Granny is a great example. although that has little to do with his 12 String, Grey Street isnt a bad example either.

Yeah you're definitely right. He's got a style which has a sound of its own.

i'll sell you mine for 275

Sure thing man!

[born 1991]

Ok, so I've done some more (youtube) research, and the closest effect I could find was on the Fishman AFX Chorus pedal. Listen to Chorus 2 on 3:10 of this video. Anyone know any cheaper pedals with a similar effect?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUTnXqkwg3o

[VanHorneDog]

Ok, so I've done some more (youtube) research, and the closest effect I could find was on the Fishman AFX Chorus pedal. Listen to Chorus 2 on 3:10 of this video. Anyone know any cheaper pedals with a similar effect?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUTnXqkwg3o

pretty much any chorus pedal will get you there, a muliti-effect pedal works too. then of course if you have some sort of mixer with on board effects that works too.

dave probably has a rack mounted $899 unit for his chorus.

[born 1991]

pretty much any chorus pedal will get you there, a muliti-effect pedal works too. then of course if you have some sort of mixer with on board effects that works too.

dave probably has a rack mounted $899 unit for his chorus.

Oh cool thanks. That should save me about $150.

Hey, by the way, do you have any of your music in mp3 or wav? I really dig it, and since I'm seeing if I can go without listening to DMB until Easter, I could use some good new music on my ipod.

[VanHorneDog]

Oh cool thanks. That should save me about $150.

Hey, by the way, do you have any of your music in mp3 or wav? I really dig it, and since I'm seeing if I can go without listening to DMB until Easter, I could use some good new music on my ipod.

lol, working on a decent Demo. You are the second person to ask me in two days, thats funny.

[nosirrah_nad]

You know what I'm talking about - the LWS guitar. I really want a 12 string guitar with that sound. Pretty much all 12 strings seem like their sound just kind of melts into indistinctive chords that are just warm and overwhelming. But tLWS is the only time I've heard that distinct, cold, snapping sound. Maybe people just don't like that kind of sound, because I find it really hard to believe there's no 12 string out there that sounds similar. I know this is a really obscure question, but are there ANY affordable guitars that sound like that, did Dave use a weird kind of string or effect to create that, or is it just in a world of its own?

Thanks a lot guys.


I think some of that "snappy" sound comes from the fact that walnut doesn't resonate very well. This is in part due to the fact that it is more dense than spruce or cedar, typical woods that are used for guitar tops. This makes walnut guitars sound pretty bad when played acoustically. However, when plugged in, this translates into you getting less of the sound of the actual guitar (caused by the top of the guitar vibrating), and a more distinct sound from each string.

If you're looking to get that kind of sound, but still want to have a decent acoustic instrument to play without dropping $3000, look at guitars with spruce tops and maple or mahogany sides and back (the seagull Maritime 12 String is a great guitar for surprisingly cheap: http://www.seagullguitars.com/productmaritime12.htm). Or if you primarily play plugged in, the Godin A12 is a good choice too (http://godinguitars.com/godina12p.htm).

[born 1991]

I think some of that "snappy" sound comes from the fact that walnut doesn't resonate very well. This is in part due to the fact that it is more dense than spruce or cedar, typical woods that are used for guitar tops. This makes walnut guitars sound pretty bad when played acoustically. However, when plugged in, this translates into you getting less of the sound of the actual guitar (caused by the top of the guitar vibrating), and a more distinct sound from each string.

If you're looking to get that kind of sound, but still want to have a decent acoustic instrument to play without dropping $3000, look at guitars with spruce tops and maple or mahogany sides and back (the seagull Maritime 12 String is a great guitar for surprisingly cheap: http://www.seagullguitars.com/productmaritime12.htm). Or if you primarily play plugged in, the Godin A12 is a good choice too (http://godinguitars.com/godina12p.htm).

Thanks! That really answered my question. The Seagull Maritime looks great, it's ashame it's not acoustic electric. But since both of those are apparently at the local dealer, I'll go check them out. Or at least spruce tops and maple/mahogany sides. Thanks for clearing up my question about the wood type too!

[nosirrah_nad]

Thanks! That really answered my question. The Seagull Maritime looks great, it's ashame it's not acoustic electric. But since both of those are apparently at the local dealer, I'll go check them out. Or at least spruce tops and maple/mahogany sides. Thanks for clearing up my question about the wood type too!


I think you can get pretty much any seagull equipped with their electronics. They make a great system that uses a piezo under the bridge, and a mic inside the guitar. You can mix the two signals for a really wide range of sounds. And you can always install an after market pickup. I've got a Fishmax Acoustic Natural Matrix II in my seagull acoustic....sounds FANTASTIC!

[born 1991]

I think you can get pretty much any seagull equipped with their electronics. They make a great system that uses a piezo under the bridge, and a mic inside the guitar. You can mix the two signals for a really wide range of sounds. And you can always install an after market pickup. I've got a Fishmax Acoustic Natural Matrix II in my seagull acoustic....sounds FANTASTIC!

Thanks that's really helpful!

Ok, so I went to my music store, West Chester Music, and reserved this. (http://www.amazon.com/Takamine-EG523SC12-12-String-Acoustic-Electric-Natural/dp/B0002E4YYM) I really love it. It had a beautiful natural and plugged-in sound and looked really nice. Sounded more like the guitar in Busted Stuff than LWS, which is cool with me, and even though I have no intentions of doing so right now, I could easily alter its sound.

Only problem is, I have to wait a whole week because they have to fix something with the neck - there was some buzzing on a few random frets. I guess it's warped? They're charging $749, and it's only $699 on amazon. I'm sure I can get them to lower it at least to that price and MAYBE throw in a few freebies cause I know the owner pretty well, but is it worth it considering it's probably used? I didn't get the chance to ask, but I think it is cause its battery was low, it had to be tweaked a little, and the guarantee inside looks old. Or would a new one be like that too? Keep in mind I can only repair it for free if I buy it from the store, and they were really good about fixing my other guitar. I have no problem buying a used guitar, but is it worth it? And do small stores like that usually have warranties that I could get in case something happens with it? I know I'm a little too worried, but this is the most expensive thing I've bought (I'm 17) and my parents think I'm wasting my time and money buying this and are pissed about it, so I really don't want to get a guitar that doesn't work. Thanks.

[spicyitalian739]

Thanks that's really helpful!

Ok, so I went to my music store, West Chester Music, and reserved this. (http://www.amazon.com/Takamine-EG523SC12-12-String-Acoustic-Electric-Natural/dp/B0002E4YYM) I really love it. It had a beautiful natural and plugged-in sound and looked really nice. Sounded more like the guitar in Busted Stuff than LWS, which is cool with me, and even though I have no intentions of doing so right now, I could easily alter its sound.

Only problem is, I have to wait a whole week because they have to fix something with the neck - there was some buzzing on a few random frets. I guess it's warped? They're charging $749, and it's only $699 on amazon. I'm sure I can get them to lower it at least to that price and MAYBE throw in a few freebies cause I know the owner pretty well, but is it worth it considering it's probably used? I didn't get the chance to ask, but I think it is cause its battery was low, it had to be tweaked a little, and the guarantee inside looks old. Or would a new one be like that too? Keep in mind I can only repair it for free if I buy it from the store, and they were really good about fixing my other guitar. I have no problem buying a used guitar, but is it worth it? And do small stores like that usually have warranties that I could get in case something happens with it? I know I'm a little too worried, but this is the most expensive thing I've bought (I'm 17) and my parents think I'm wasting my time and money buying this and are pissed about it, so I really don't want to get a guitar that doesn't work. Thanks.

That's unfortunate... my parents bought me my American Standard Strat for my 16th birthday and supported me in all the guitars I bought with my own money when I was younger.

You should be good with that Takamine...

I have a Taylor W65ce that I want to sell (as I don't play guitar often anymore), but it's such a rare guitar that it won't sell on ebay for what it's "worth," since nobody knows to even look for it except DMB fans. It sounds like a choir of angels. It's just a shame that I have it locked up in my closet all the time. What was I talking about again? :lol

[born 1991]

That's unfortunate... my parents bought me my American Standard Strat for my 16th birthday and supported me in all the guitars I bought with my own money when I was younger.

You should be good with that Takamine...

I have a Taylor W65ce that I want to sell (as I don't play guitar often anymore), but it's such a rare guitar that it won't sell on ebay for what it's "worth," since nobody knows to even look for it except DMB fans. It sounds like a choir of angels. It's just a shame that I have it locked up in my closet all the time. What was I talking about again? :lol

I think you were talking about how amazing you are at making losers like me feel like crap. You're a lucky guy. Thing is, I know I would treat that guitar better than anyone who's ever had one, but my wallet will keep me from ever getting one in the first place... I hope you know how jealous I am. If you actually played it even half as much as I would if I had one, I'd feel a lot better about this. :lol