Saxophone Beginner

[brad09]

Picked up the guitar by myself a few years back and don't really feel like its my instrument. I tought myself and am pretty proud of what I can play for just screwing around on weekends in college, but just don't have the will to improve anymore.
Anyways, I have the summer off this year (plan to hit up a lot of shows), but I am thinking of purchasing a Saxophone. Used to be pretty solid at the trumpet AWHILE back, but i just think the sax would be my thing. However I would like to become pretty good at it and would like to know the learning curve if anyone here has been playing??

Are lessons expensive??
Is it an instrument where you need to be playing every night to be somewhat good?
Im still in school for electrical engineering so time is limited but with the summer off...is 4 months a good amount of time to nail the basics and start feelin comfortable/havin fun with it??

thanks:)

[turbo895]

to be good at any instrament you need to play it every night dude. Eh go to your local music store and it should be like 14 bucks a week. What kind of sax are you getting, Alto, tenor or bari?

[brad09]

To be honest dude, idk what sax to get, idk anything about sax's haha,
not looking to purchase one now, but I am limiting my purchases till the summer because learning the sax is something I want to achieve. Basically my only influences on getting the sax is I've been bored with the guitar and the sax is my absolute favorite instrument to listen to.

[turbo895]

well let me give you some help, altos, i hate altos i started out on an alto they sound so annoying to me, tenor is the sexiest its bigger than the alto and its the main sax used in you might die trying or warehouse or 41. bari's are bigger than tenors, i play bari for marching band and its hard to play because of air and there expensive as fuck. so yeahit all deppends your price range and the sound you want, sure alto is annoying but its the ideal sax to start out on to learn.

[brad09]

I'm most interested in what occurs the most in dmb songs. I'm really interested in the jams like on proudest monkey, 41, warehouse, seek up, 36, linus and lucy.

[zajDmB1]

tenor is def the most versatile, ie has the most potential range if you know how to get the higher notes. Alto is what kids start on, but I'm sure you are old enough to get enough air through a tenor, so might as well just start on tenor.

As for the learning curve, since you played trumpet I imagine you'll get the breathing easily, but it is still a whole new way to have your mouth, so unless you are sax prodigy waiting to happen, you will sound pretty shitty for a while, depending on how much you play. And the catch is, until you work up your mouth stamina you will not be able to practice for hours and hours at a time because your cheeks and mouth just like die after a while ha. But fingerings are very easy to learn, so that won't be a problem for you. It will really be all about how quickly you are able to get a good sound out.

[brad09]

tenor is def the most versatile, ie has the most potential range if you know how to get the higher notes. Alto is what kids start on, but I'm sure you are old enough to get enough air through a tenor, so might as well just start on tenor.

As for the learning curve, since you played trumpet I imagine you'll get the breathing easily, but it is still a whole new way to have your mouth, so unless you are sax prodigy waiting to happen, you will sound pretty shitty for a while, depending on how much you play. And the catch is, until you work up your mouth stamina you will not be able to practice for hours and hours at a time because your cheeks and mouth just like die after a while ha. But fingerings are very easy to learn, so that won't be a problem for you. It will really be all about how quickly you are able to get a good sound out.

Thanks!

I'm looking for the most versatile sax and it sounds like tenor is the way to go...just got to build up some money for the summer time now.

[whiteysax]

Learning curve: since you already have musical background, you're already a few steps ahead. You can concentrate on the mechanics of a new instrument without worrying about reading the music. If you can remember back to when you started the trumpet, picking up the sax will be a lot like that. There are VERY few similarities between play trumpet and playing sax aside from basic breath technique and the need for developed emboucher. I've been playing sax for about 18 years now and learned the trumpet when I was in college... ended up teaching it for 2 years and it KILLED my chops. You are already used to buzzing the lips, keeping the emboucher firm, tight corners, solid jaw. With the sax, there is no buzzing, still a need for a firm emboucher though. Once you get the feel for the mouthpiece and can blow through the horn without it sounding like a flock of geese mating, the rest is a breeze and just a matter of practice and repetition.

The horn: Alto is standard. If you're a little person or have poor lung capacity, I'd recommend starting on that. If you're an average sized person, alto or tenor is just fine. Over the years I've learned that for beginners who have the physical ability to handle a tenor, that is probably the way to go. You will run into less pitch, intonation, and tuning obstacles as a beginner on an average sized horn like that tenor. Alto is very common and usually recommended for beginners, but is also more sensitive to minor changes in emboucher/equipment, etc. and you may find it more frustrating trying to "perfect" your sound/tone on alto as a beginner. DO NOT by any means even CONSIDER starting on bari or soprano. If you're looking to play Roi's stuff, tenor is a must. If you're thinking of picking up a starter horn for yourself, I'd recommend the Yamaha 23. It's a student model horn, priced well and very reliable as far as student models go. If you want to save a few extra dollars, you can always go with a low level Selmer Bundy (used a lot on marching band fields cause no one cares if they get destroyed). They're cheap, but pretty crappy.

Lessons: Standard lessons range from $15/half hour up to $50/hr depending where you go and who you take lessons from. I taught at a music shop which charged $30/hr (lessons were a half hour long). If you go to a professional private instructor, you're looking at a good bit more money. As a beginner who's just trying it out, check out your local music shops and see if they offer lessons. Even if the instructors aren't the best, it's a good way to pick someone's brain about the basics and fundamentals for a half hour a week. If you think you think you're up to the task of teaching yourself a wind instrument, several beginner lesson books come with a DVD to show you how to do what is written in the book. The Essential Elements series is great for this.

Let me know if you have any other questions

[jabes416]

Sax is going to be really tough to pick up quickly...

It will take a while before you learn the ways of playing a woodwind with the reeds and such...alot of sax players start off playing a clarinet and then work their way to the sax. But good luck

[turbo895]

I was a sax prodigy... i came out of the womb with ganster locks a low costing suit and playing take 5 on alto :cool <----i looked like that accutally.

[brad09]

Learning curve: since you already have musical background, you're already a few steps ahead. You can concentrate on the mechanics of a new instrument without worrying about reading the music. If you can remember back to when you started the trumpet, picking up the sax will be a lot like that. There are VERY few similarities between play trumpet and playing sax aside from basic breath technique and the need for developed emboucher. I've been playing sax for about 18 years now and learned the trumpet when I was in college... ended up teaching it for 2 years and it KILLED my chops. You are already used to buzzing the lips, keeping the emboucher firm, tight corners, solid jaw. With the sax, there is no buzzing, still a need for a firm emboucher though. Once you get the feel for the mouthpiece and can blow through the horn without it sounding like a flock of geese mating, the rest is a breeze and just a matter of practice and repetition.

The horn: Alto is standard. If you're a little person or have poor lung capacity, I'd recommend starting on that. If you're an average sized person, alto or tenor is just fine. Over the years I've learned that for beginners who have the physical ability to handle a tenor, that is probably the way to go. You will run into less pitch, intonation, and tuning obstacles as a beginner on an average sized horn like that tenor. Alto is very common and usually recommended for beginners, but is also more sensitive to minor changes in emboucher/equipment, etc. and you may find it more frustrating trying to "perfect" your sound/tone on alto as a beginner. DO NOT by any means even CONSIDER starting on bari or soprano. If you're looking to play Roi's stuff, tenor is a must. If you're thinking of picking up a starter horn for yourself, I'd recommend the Yamaha 23. It's a student model horn, priced well and very reliable as far as student models go. If you want to save a few extra dollars, you can always go with a low level Selmer Bundy (used a lot on marching band fields cause no one cares if they get destroyed). They're cheap, but pretty crappy.

Lessons: Standard lessons range from $15/half hour up to $50/hr depending where you go and who you take lessons from. I taught at a music shop which charged $30/hr (lessons were a half hour long). If you go to a professional private instructor, you're looking at a good bit more money. As a beginner who's just trying it out, check out your local music shops and see if they offer lessons. Even if the instructors aren't the best, it's a good way to pick someone's brain about the basics and fundamentals for a half hour a week. If you think you think you're up to the task of teaching yourself a wind instrument, several beginner lesson books come with a DVD to show you how to do what is written in the book. The Essential Elements series is great for this.

Let me know if you have any other questions

Thanks for the helpful response!
Being that Roi is my primary influence, that's the stuff I'd like to learn so I think tenor is where it's at. As far as my body, im 5-10, 160, and with being a runner and an ice hockey player my lungs are in pretty good shape. The self taught idea sounds good, but being that I did that with the guitar and sort of lost motivation I think I will go with lessons and there are a few places around my area I've gotten good reviews for. Should get it all started in the summer but just trying to get the information I need now cause I'm pretty excited.

Know of any good online sites that can give me a good price range on some sax's to give me a head start on what I need to save up for?

[werkinsnake]

Know of any good online sites that can give me a good price range on some sax's to give me a head start on what I need to save up for?

Here are a few resource sites;

www.saxpics.com (http://www.saxpics.com/) - One of the most comprehensive lists of vintage saxophones on the web. There's a lot of good info regarding saxophone makes as well as the company history from various manufacturers.

http://www.petethomas.co.uk/ (http://www.petethomas.co.uk/) - Great site for helpful playing tips. There are sound clips that accompany lessons to help you understand what sound you are trying to create.

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/ (http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/) - Very in depth reviews of saxophone mechanics. Includes reviews of many modern and vintage saxophones. If you read through this site, you will have no trouble identifying a good saxophone from a bad one.

www.saxontheweb.net (http://www.saxontheweb.net/) - If you are still lost, you can discuss all things saxophone here.

www.thewoodwindforum.com (http://www.thewoodwindforum.com/) - Similar to Sax On The Web, however the focus here is more on the other woodwind instruments.

If you really go through all of these sites, you will begin to notice that certain tips are repeated over and over. You should take it that these are important concepts and practices. In general, and this is very basic, these should be your first priorities if you decide to teach yourself.

1) Find a reliable horn in good working order. I'll second Whiteysax's recommendation of a Yamaha-23. YAS-23 = alto saxophone YTS-23 = tenor sax. These really are excellent horns in terms of tone and intonation. They are very durable, and every tech has spare parts for them. Best of all, they can be fairly inexpensive if you find a used one. Once you find a saxophone, TAKE IT TO A TECH to have it looked over. There is no sense in trying to learn on an instrument that isn't working properly. Mechanical issues on a saxophone are far harder to spot than are issues with guitars. Make sure that you have all of the needed accessories, mouthpiece, reeds, swabs, neck strap, etc. Once again, a music store tech can set you off in the right direction.

2) Get a book that goes through all of the basics. I personally love Larry Teals "The Art of Saxophone Playing". You can pick it up on Amazon.com for under $15, and it goes through all of the basics of technique, tone production, embouchure control, and practically everything else that you need to know.

If you are good at picking things up on your own, weekly lessons may not be necessary. However, I would suggest that you take a few lessons in the beginning stages as it's much easier to learn these concepts from scratch than it is to unlearn and relearn them if you have been doing them incorrectly.

3) Have fun! :)

[whiteysax]

Thanks for the helpful response!
Being that Roi is my primary influence, that's the stuff I'd like to learn so I think tenor is where it's at. As far as my body, im 5-10, 160, and with being a runner and an ice hockey player my lungs are in pretty good shape. The self taught idea sounds good, but being that I did that with the guitar and sort of lost motivation I think I will go with lessons and there are a few places around my area I've gotten good reviews for. Should get it all started in the summer but just trying to get the information I need now cause I'm pretty excited.

Know of any good online sites that can give me a good price range on some sax's to give me a head start on what I need to save up for?Yeah, I'd definitely recommend tenor for you then. One site that werk didn't list is Woodwind & Brasswind's website... they will give you fairly standard pricing, but have a HUGE selection. If you find a "cheap" one there, you can probably scour the internet or some auction sites and find it even a little cheaper. That website is wwbw.com.

I'll go ahead and second werk's suggestion of the Teal books... they're quite good. I learned using the old school Rubank books. Rubank is very thorough (imo), but may be a bit confusing for a beginner. They don't spell everything out for someone who isn't familiar with the horn, but their exercises and the way their lessons are laid out and paced are great.

[Sou1 So1di3r]

Don't buy anything off of WWBW.com if you intend on using it sometime this year. Their customer service is ridiculous and it can take up to 6 months to receive some mouthpiece patches. GHEY! Took almost 2 months to receive my Reference 54 alto a few years back.

For starter saxes, you should probably consider renting one or finding a cheap one online or in your local area. The prices on saxes has gone up significantly in the past few years, (at least for the top of the line models, like the selmer I own) so you missed the boat on that one. Then again, this might not affect you since you will probably want a beginner horn. Honestly, the best route to guy is to find yourself a private teacher or a teacher at a music shoppe. I'm sure you could also find some music majors at colleges around you that teach summer lessons for a small profit on the side.

[PinkFloydDudi]

One thing to add...be careful you aren't going to run into the same "lack of desire to continue on".
Guitar is a pretty widely used instrument. More people have them laying around than have saxaphones. You can pick one up at a campfire and start playing. Piano is similar, as more people tend to have those sitting around.
I just worry that you will buy or rent a sax, use it for a few months of years and get to the same level as you did with guitar, then pick up something else. The learning curve you get to after a year or two of practice is VERY steep. Seems like you are making no progress as you practice for hours...but then you get over that part and get to move on to the next big curve.

While its not bad to learn a different instrument, be careful not to fall into the trap of "once you get to the learning curve, you stop and move to another instrument".

Just my 2 cents on the slightly off-topic.

On-topic: You might want to rent for a while and take some lessons before purchasing a tenor sax. They can be very expensive (think our sax player paid $14k for a new tenor sax).
For your level of understanding (i'm assuming you are an intelligent person), you don't need someone to start at the very basics. So as suggested by others, try to find a music grad student or something that is looking to make some extra cash.
Also, there are a ton of websites to learn with on the internet.

[saxlover]

woodwind and brasswind is the way to go. they have the best selection and prices. dont listen to the jojo below. ive bought tons of stuff (including my horn) from them over the last 12 years and have never had a problem.

Don't buy anything off of WWBW.com if you intend on using it sometime this year. Their customer service is ridiculous and it can take up to 6 months to receive some mouthpiece patches. GHEY! Took almost 2 months to receive my Reference 54 alto a few years back.

For starter saxes, you should probably consider renting one or finding a cheap one online or in your local area. The prices on saxes has gone up significantly in the past few years, (at least for the top of the line models, like the selmer I own) so you missed the boat on that one. Then again, this might not affect you since you will probably want a beginner horn. Honestly, the best route to guy is to find yourself a private teacher or a teacher at a music shoppe. I'm sure you could also find some music majors at colleges around you that teach summer lessons for a small profit on the side.

[whiteysax]

Don't buy anything off of WWBW.com if you intend on using it sometime this year. Their customer service is ridiculous and it can take up to 6 months to receive some mouthpiece patches. GHEY! Took almost 2 months to receive my Reference 54 alto a few years back.

For starter saxes, you should probably consider renting one or finding a cheap one online or in your local area. The prices on saxes has gone up significantly in the past few years, (at least for the top of the line models, like the selmer I own) so you missed the boat on that one. Then again, this might not affect you since you will probably want a beginner horn. Honestly, the best route to guy is to find yourself a private teacher or a teacher at a music shoppe. I'm sure you could also find some music majors at colleges around you that teach summer lessons for a small profit on the side.if it's listed as "on order" or "not in stock" on their website, call and ask... they'll tell you if it will take 2 months. I've had the same problem with them, but it's never been anything they've kept me in the dark about (ironically, it was also a set of mouthpiece teeth pads...). But they are my #1 stop for reeds and accessories... never had any real problems.

One thing to add...be careful you aren't going to run into the same "lack of desire to continue on".
Guitar is a pretty widely used instrument. More people have them laying around than have saxaphones. You can pick one up at a campfire and start playing. Piano is similar, as more people tend to have those sitting around.
I just worry that you will buy or rent a sax, use it for a few months of years and get to the same level as you did with guitar, then pick up something else. The learning curve you get to after a year or two of practice is VERY steep. Seems like you are making no progress as you practice for hours...but then you get over that part and get to move on to the next big curve.

While its not bad to learn a different instrument, be careful not to fall into the trap of "once you get to the learning curve, you stop and move to another instrument".

Just my 2 cents on the slightly off-topic.

On-topic: You might want to rent for a while and take some lessons before purchasing a tenor sax. They can be very expensive (think our sax player paid $14k for a new tenor sax).
For your level of understanding (i'm assuming you are an intelligent person), you don't need someone to start at the very basics. So as suggested by others, try to find a music grad student or something that is looking to make some extra cash.
Also, there are a ton of websites to learn with on the internet.:ugh First, if you're just a recreational musician or hobbyist, there's no reason to fear owning a horn for a few months or years and then never playing it again. It's something you can always pick up again later or sell if you never intend to touch it again. Not everyone picks up a horn with the intention of making it a career.
Second, unless you're a sponsor for a brand name or playing REALLY good paying gigs for thousands of people a night, there's NO need to buy a $14k TENOR... I'd only consider paying that much for a low end professional bassoon. You can get a nice professional tenor for $6-9k... and even that's the high end of the price range.

woodwind and brasswind is the way to go. they have the best selection and prices. dont listen to the jojo below. ive bought tons of stuff (including my horn) from them over the last 12 years and have never had a problem.:thumbsup:thumbsup The only thing I don't like about WWBW online is not being able to test the horn before buying it. I've finally locked into the little nuances of the alto I bought from them (tuning high to low, which pads stick, etc), but had I tried the horn first, I may have gone with a different one.

[saxlover]

if it's listed as "on order" or "not in stock" on their website, call and ask... they'll tell you if it will take 2 months. I've had the same problem with them, but it's never been anything they've kept me in the dark about (ironically, it was also a set of mouthpiece teeth pads...). But they are my #1 stop for reeds and accessories... never had any real problems.

:ugh First, if you're just a recreational musician or hobbyist, there's no reason to fear owning a horn for a few months or years and then never playing it again. It's something you can always pick up again later or sell if you never intend to touch it again. Not everyone picks up a horn with the intention of making it a career.
Second, unless you're a sponsor for a brand name or playing REALLY good paying gigs for thousands of people a night, there's NO need to buy a $14k TENOR... I'd only consider paying that much for a low end professional bassoon. You can get a nice professional tenor for $6-9k... and even that's the high end of the price range.

:thumbsup:thumbsup The only thing I don't like about WWBW online is not being able to test the horn before buying it. I've finally locked into the little nuances of the alto I bought from them (tuning high to low, which pads stick, etc), but had I tried the horn first, I may have gone with a different one.
that 14k horn better have diamonds and give me bjs.
ya, i wish it were easier to test out horns, mouthpieces, etc. thankfully i live only two hours away from them. but when i head back to colorado ill go to the local music store and test out the same equipment and then buy from ww and bw. sorry but im just looking :)

[werkinsnake]

14k for a tenor? :ugh The majority of Mark VI's don't even go for that, unless they were used by a big name player or are in pristine condition. There are a ton of vintage pro models that still go for around $1,500 - $2,500. Even the Selmer Mark VII, SA80, and Serie II can be found in that range.

[zajDmB1]

One thing to add...be careful you aren't going to run into the same "lack of desire to continue on".
Guitar is a pretty widely used instrument. More people have them laying around than have saxaphones. You can pick one up at a campfire and start playing. Piano is similar, as more people tend to have those sitting around.
I just worry that you will buy or rent a sax, use it for a few months of years and get to the same level as you did with guitar, then pick up something else. The learning curve you get to after a year or two of practice is VERY steep. Seems like you are making no progress as you practice for hours...but then you get over that part and get to move on to the next big curve.

While its not bad to learn a different instrument, be careful not to fall into the trap of "once you get to the learning curve, you stop and move to another instrument".

Just my 2 cents on the slightly off-topic.

On-topic: You might want to rent for a while and take some lessons before purchasing a tenor sax. They can be very expensive (think our sax player paid $14k for a new tenor sax).
For your level of understanding (i'm assuming you are an intelligent person), you don't need someone to start at the very basics. So as suggested by others, try to find a music grad student or something that is looking to make some extra cash.
Also, there are a ton of websites to learn with on the internet.

Either he is lying, he got ripped off, or he didn't do his homework. There is absolutely no reason why a tenor would be more than like 6k unless it belonged to someone famous. My Mark VII alto and tenor were both like $1800 and 2100 I think, and those are upper-middle grade horns. My old teachers top of the line Mark VI's are worth like $3-5K I think. I can't even fathom who would price a tenor so ridiculously. Maybe he meant all his saxes combined? If he has a whole line, that makes more sense.

[werkinsnake]

Either he is lying, he got ripped off, or he didn't do his homework. There is absolutely no reason why a tenor would be more than like 6k unless it belonged to someone famous. My Mark VII alto and tenor were both like $1800 and 2100 I think, and those are upper-middle grade horns. My old teachers top of the line Mark VI's are worth like $3-5K I think. I can't even fathom who would price a tenor so ridiculously. Maybe he meant all his saxes combined? If he has a whole line, that makes more sense.

Your VIIs are full fledged pro horns. They do not have the "collectors appeal" of the VI, but they were top of the line horns none the less.

Mark VI prices were becoming outrageous a few years ago, and it wasn't uncommon to see prices reaching, or exceeding, 10K. Over the past year, the prices seem to have dropped. Altos and tenors seem to go from anywhere from $3-7K. Actually, with Selmer's recent price hikes, you can occasionally find a VI that costs less than a new II, III, or Ref.

[zajDmB1]

Your VIIs are full fledged pro horns. They do not have the "collectors appeal" of the VI, but they were top of the line horns none the less.

Mark VI prices were becoming outrageous a few years ago, and it wasn't uncommon to see prices reaching, or exceeding, 10K. Over the past year, the prices seem to have dropped. Altos and tenors seem to go from anywhere from $3-7K. Actually, with Selmer's recent price hikes, you can occasionally find a VI that costs less than a new II, III, or Ref.

Yea, true, I guess I meant compared to Mark VI's, ha. I mean, there was a very noticeable difference when I would play my teacher's horns (the Mark VI's).

And I stopped playing about 4 years ago so I'm sort of out of the sax loop, so what made them jump so high up, any idea? Just a strange increase of demand for them?

[werkinsnake]

And I stopped playing about 4 years ago so I'm sort of out of the sax loop, so what made them jump so high up, any idea? Just a strange increase of demand for them?
I think that the internet was to blame. The VI became a sought after horn soon after Selmer stopped making them, but prices remained reasonable until the introduction of the online market. There really wasn't a vintage horn market until eBay came around. A lot of "hype" soon followed, and for some reason, certain models became extremely expensive. Today, I think that VI prices are leveling off because there are more and more modern choices that play just as well. Jeff Coffin replaced his VI's with Yamaha Z's. Leroi often used modern horns in every pitch but tenor. All in all, ya just gotta play what works for you. :)

[thewickedLP]

There are Mark VI's to be found for over 20k in certain stores. There is absolutely no reason to pay anywhere near that much for a saxophone. I have a MkVI, love it, and treat it like an extension of my body, but i would never pay over 5k for a sax.

Getting back to the OP's question, get a tenor. It is the by far the most iconic and versatile of all the saxes, that's why Leroi used it more than any instrument. The way I view it, the tenor and alto are the standard horns, the ones that musician make money off of whereas the bari and soprano, while entertaining, have a far more limited use. The only advantage the alto has is a better upper range, but with the use of altissimo a decent tenor player can easily neutralize this advantage. However, the tenor has a better low range and there is no way to increase the low register of a sax. For all intents and purposes, low Bb (or A is you have a bari with a low A key) is as low as any sax goes. The concert pitch of a tenor's low Bb is a fourth lower than the low Bb of an alto and that advantage can't be negated.

I too played trumpet for awhile before switching to sax, and I managed to pick it up in a very short span of time. I started learning 7 months ago and can play the #41 solo no problem along with the riffs in Stay and Leroi's step out on The Warehouse. The embouchure change is tough, but seeing has you already know how to put enough air into the horn, it shouldn't be too much of a problem. Get a lesson or two to make sure you're not making any critical mistakes with the way you form your lips, but other than that your instincts should get you by just fine. Learning the fingerings just takes time. Find a chart on the internet and play. Constantly. I practiced at least two hours a day when starting and still try and play for at least an hour a day.

Sax is an amazing instrument, by far my favorite. From ballads to jazz to rock and roll to pop, nothing gets the people excited like a wailing tenorman. Rent a sax, devote some time, be patient and you'll be rewarded with the ability to play (arguably) the greatest instrument ever.

[PinkFloydDudi]

14k for a tenor? :ugh The majority of Mark VI's don't even go for that, unless they were used by a big name player or are in pristine condition. There are a ton of vintage pro models that still go for around $1,500 - $2,500. Even the Selmer Mark VII, SA80, and Serie II can be found in that range.

Just goin by what he told me. Perhaps he exaggerated.


Second, unless you're playing REALLY good paying gigs for thousands of people a night, there's NO need to buy a $14k TENOR...

Ding!
http://www.bigeyedphish.com/e107_files/public/dsc_0484.jpg

[PinkFloydDudi]

:ugh First, if you're just a recreational musician or hobbyist, there's no reason to fear owning a horn for a few months or years and then never playing it again. It's something you can always pick up again later or sell if you never intend to touch it again. Not everyone picks up a horn with the intention of making it a career.

There is also no point in purchasing a rather expensive instrument simply to run yourself into the same problem you found with your previous one. On a list of instruments that are useful outside of performance settings, sax isn't that high in comparison to piano and guitar.

The point was not to convince him not to play the sax, its to let him know that he quite possibly (and probably) will run into a similar wall. If he just wants to get that good at multiple instruments...awesome. But if he is looking for a way to avoid the learning curve he ran into, changing instruments won't help him.
Again, not saying that is the case, just bringing up the point.

You are pretty quick to be snippy. Chill out.

[zajDmB1]

Just goin by what he told me. Perhaps he exaggerated.



Ding!
http://www.bigeyedphish.com/e107_files/public/dsc_0484.jpg

lulz. Sorry, I don't think that warrants a 14K sax. I doubt Roi's saxes even approached 14K. It's just unnecessarily high, and once you get past like 6, it's not even about a better horn anymore. Next time you talk to him, can you ask him about it? I'm actually very curious now as you what made it that much, if he wasn't exaggerating.

[whiteysax]

Just goin by what he told me. Perhaps he exaggerated.



Ding!
http://www.bigeyedphish.com/e107_files/public/dsc_0484.jpg:rolleyes

There is also no point in purchasing a rather expensive instrument simply to run yourself into the same problem you found with your previous one. On a list of instruments that are useful outside of performance settings, sax isn't that high in comparison to piano and guitar.

The point was not to convince him not to play the sax, its to let him know that he quite possibly (and probably) will run into a similar wall. If he just wants to get that good at multiple instruments...awesome. But if he is looking for a way to avoid the learning curve he ran into, changing instruments won't help him.
Again, not saying that is the case, just bringing up the point.

You are pretty quick to be snippy. Chill out.I think we have different definitions of "learning curve." I don't think the learning curve would be a deterant for learning an instrument... it would just dictate how quickly you pick it up... it doesn't change the longer you play, it just flattens out when you reach your peak talent level (at least that's how I interpret "learning curve")

and I'm as quick to be snippy as you are to jump up on your high horse

lulz. Sorry, I don't think that warrants a 14K sax. I doubt Roi's saxes even approached 14K. It's just unnecessarily high, and once you get past like 6, it's not even about a better horn anymore. Next time you talk to him, can you ask him about it? I'm actually very curious now as you what made it that much, if he wasn't exaggerating.The only way any of Roi (or Jeff)'s horns would approach $14k is if every aspect of them is custom.

[PinkFloydDudi]

I think we have different definitions of "learning curve." I don't think the learning curve would be a deterant for learning an instrument... it would just dictate how quickly you pick it up... it doesn't change the longer you play, it just flattens out when you reach your peak talent level (at least that's how I interpret "learning curve")

I'll try to repeat this again. If you are picking up a different instrument in hopes of bypassing the wall you ran into with the previous one, that is most likely not going to work. Not sure how much easier I can put that.

and I'm as quick to be snippy as you are to jump up on your high horse

I'll let you scroll up and see who replied to whom first.


The only way any of Roi (or Jeff)'s horns would approach $14k is if every aspect of them is custom.

I was mistaken in referring to his tenor. It was the baritone that he said can reach prices up to $14k.

Although his tenor at $4,500 is no small investment either.

But I was mistaken in saying a tenor for $14k.

Edit: and for the record, it is a Selmer Paris Series 2 (tenor)
Edit2: I don't know jack about saxaphones, and especially prices...just mistook what he said.

[saxlover]

the knob on my sax goes up to 11.

[whiteysax]

I'll try to repeat this again. If you are picking up a different instrument in hopes of bypassing the wall you ran into with the previous one, that is most likely not going to work. Not sure how much easier I can put that.

I'll let you scroll up and see who replied to whom first.



I was mistaken in referring to his tenor. It was the baritone that he said can reach prices up to $14k.

Although his tenor at $4,500 is no small investment either.

But I was mistaken in saying a tenor for $14k.

Edit: and for the record, it is a Selmer Paris Series 2 (tenor)
Edit2: I don't know jack about saxaphones, and especially prices...just mistook what he said.
1. Ok, i misunderstood what you were trying to say in response to the learning curve thing... although I think if you have more desire to learn one instrument more than another, it wouldn't matter how far along you got with the first... but I see what you're saying
2. Yes, I responded to you first because I hate seeing people give other people poor advice about music, however as I just said, I misunderstood what you were trying to say... and given that, it wasn't so much advice as it was a general statement. Regardless, that had nothing to do with your pointless post of a pic of your band at some festival (which I know was in response to my statement, but was still just as pointless)
3. Bari sax... ok. Those can easily approach $14k. That's still the high end of prices for bari's though. I'd be curious as to what kind of bari he's got. I'm planning on buying one in the next 2 weeks (and spending nowhere NEAR $14k). I hope he got his money's worth for that price. $4500 for a tenor is very common. My next tenor will probably run me about that.

the knob on my sax goes up to 11.
:ugh it doesn't make any sense to me... but it's still funny as hell! :lol

[thewickedLP]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

great movie

[zajDmB1]

:lol I'd bet my life he knew what it was from. It doesn't make sense cuz saxes ain't got knobs.

[Sou1 So1di3r]

You can try out horns before you buy them from WWBW..... lol. At least I did. I drove to the store once when my brother was trying out his SeriesIII and I ordered 4 different saxes and then sent back the ones I didn't want. Same thing for mouthpieces, ligatures, etc.

I got a:
Selmer Reference 54 Alto
eugene rousseau jazz mouthpiece
Rovner Versa Lig (Eddie Daniels)

[whiteysax]

You can try out horns before you buy them from WWBW..... lol. At least I did. I drove to the store once when my brother was trying out his SeriesIII and I ordered 4 different saxes and then sent back the ones I didn't want. Same thing for mouthpieces, ligatures, etc.

I got a:
Selmer Reference 54 Alto
eugene rousseau jazz mouthpiece
Rovner Versa Lig (Eddie Daniels)Of course you can try them before you buy them... but it isn't as easy when WWBW is a 12-15 hour drive from where you live. They do have a pretty good 90 day return policy which I opted not to use. Experimenting with mouthpieces and reeds fixed most of the problems. I'm happy with it now... it could be better, but I think I'm getting my money's worth so far.

[saxlover]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbVKWCpNFhY

great movie
:leroi

[PinkFloydDudi]

1. Ok, i misunderstood what you were trying to say in response to the learning curve thing... although I think if you have more desire to learn one instrument more than another, it wouldn't matter how far along you got with the first... but I see what you're saying
2. Yes, I responded to you first because I hate seeing people give other people poor advice about music, however as I just said, I misunderstood what you were trying to say... and given that, it wasn't so much advice as it was a general statement. Regardless, that had nothing to do with your pointless post of a pic of your band at some festival (which I know was in response to my statement, but was still just as pointless)

I'm with ya on the seeing bad advice. Perhaps I worded it poorly. Hope my original statement makes more sense now. I've seen people get very discouraged by trying 10 different instruments hoping to become a pro within a year or two and then just give up all together.
Things such as playing in front of a small audience in a home, like you are able to do with a guitar and piano quite easily, tend to make people want to keep practicing and playing. Can't expect to be quite good at any instrument with only a year or two of practice (all prodigies aside).
I do agree with your point that someone liking one instrument more than another will lead to them wanting to work harder and get bettter at it though.
One pointless statement deserves another! =)


3. Bari sax... ok. Those can easily approach $14k. That's still the high end of prices for bari's though. I'd be curious as to what kind of bari he's got. I'm planning on buying one in the next 2 weeks (and spending nowhere NEAR $14k). I hope he got his money's worth for that price. $4500 for a tenor is very common. My next tenor will probably run me about that.


From my brief research yesterday, $14k is even still pretty damn high for a bari sax. Highest I believe I found was $12k (not that i know where to look for very high quality saxaphones though).

He actually doesn't own a bari, although one of our friends just recently let him borrow one for an "indefinite amount of time", since the other guy never used it anymore. So it will be a cool addition.

[whiteysax]

From my brief research yesterday, $14k is even still pretty damn high for a bari sax. Highest I believe I found was $12k (not that i know where to look for very high quality saxaphones though).

He actually doesn't own a bari, although one of our friends just recently let him borrow one for an "indefinite amount of time", since the other guy never used it anymore. So it will be a cool addition.
Once you cross the $10k mark with saxes, you're pretty much talking about custom horns, a step up from standard professional models... either that or horns with historical value, depending on past owners, etc. The only common instruments I've run across that average over $10k are bassoons and maybe some nice grand pianos.