Joe M.
07-31-2002, 01:57 AM
Trading Tips, Rules & Help
Hey AntsMarching.org members! This here is your best guide for trading and starting your collection of the many awesome DMB shows that are available to trade. These tips, rules, and help are pretty standard for trading with other bands also.
The first thing to understand about trading is that it is a privilege we are given from the band and management, and is also in thanks of the tapers. In order to retain this privilege it is important we follow the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp). Probably one of the biggest things to note is that you should NEVER pay for a taped show (unless it’s an official release from DMB). Even if you don’t have any shows to start with, there are ways set up for you to get started.
Now you get to start. You want to get your first show and start to build your wonderful collection of music to enjoy and to share with others. To get your very first show you do a process called ‘Blanks and Postage’ (or B&P for short).
B&P (Blanks and Postage)
This is a process that allows a new trader who has a small or non-existent collection to receive shows whether it be as a one time event or in order to begin a extensive collection of shows. The overall process is, in return for sending the correct amount of blank discs with a self-addressed and self-stamped envelope, you receive the shows that the B&P’er was kind enough to help you with. In a B&P, the trader that burns the shows is doing the B&P process with no profit to himself or herself other then the gratification of helping the community out and building friendships and potential traders down the road. You should never have to include anything extra in your B&P such as extra discs or cash or anything.
You should watch for B&P’s to be offered. It is sometimes considered rude to ask for them. If the show you are looking for is not being offered, take up another B&P offer to get yourself a show so that you can trade for the show you are looking for. If the show you wish to get is from a performance from the latest or current tour, just continue to watch the board and B&P's will be offered. Do NOT request a show before 2 weeks following the performance. This is considered extremely rude. Please read below on more information about the 2 week rule. Once you find a B&P offered and you follow the given rules by the poster, you should be contacted via email (or some other form of communication) to set up the B&P.
+So what will I need?
Your going to need a couple things in order to do a B&P. The following supplies can be picked up at any home office retailer (OfficeMax, Staples, etc.).
1. An outer envelope. This can be any envelope capable of holding the rest of your matierals being mailed out. Normally 9" x 12" Brown Clasp Envelopes are used.
2. The returning envelope. This can be any envelope that is padded in some way that can hold your returning CD’s. Normally 6" x 9" Self-Sealing Bubble-Lined Envelopes are used.
3. CD’s. The type of CD is really up to you (they most be CD-R’s not CD-RW’s). There are differences in quality in discs. The preferred CD type for trading is Sony, TDK, Fuji, or Memorex. One thing they DO need to be is the 80 minute CD’s (many shows are longer and need to be on the 80 minute CD’s). They should also be all speed if possible.
4. CD Sleeves or Jewel Cases. Your CD’s should be keep in some sort of protection. CD sleeves are light and will reduce your postage amount compared to Jewel Cases.
5. Standard index cards or some sort of paper to be included into the package for reference information.
(Image here)
Now that you have everything you need it’s time to get it completed.
1. Take the correct number of blank CD’s, as specified by the B&P’er, and place them individually into the CD Sleeves (or Jewel Cases).
2. Take the padded/bubble envelope and put YOUR address as the “Mail To” address, and the return address is that of the B&P’er. (This is the enveloped coming from the B&P’er to you.)
3. Take the blank CD’s that are in the sleeves and place them into the padded/bubble envelope.
4. The note (on the note card). Here you should write down the show you have set up to receive and your email address or however you were communicating with the B&P’er. Also this is your chance to mention how grateful you are for the offer and your chance to build a friendship. Once you are finished place the card into the padded/bubble envelope.
5. DO NOT SEAL THE PADDED/BUBBLE ENVELOPE! If you do this the B&P’er will not be able to remove your discs and burn them.
6. Take the outer envelope and write the B&P’ers address on the outside in the “Mail To” position and your address in the return position. Then put the unsealed padded/bubble envelope into the outer envelope. (Do not seal outer envelope)
7. It is now time to mail them. This part is very important. The easiest way to do this part is to go to your local post office and have it done infront of you. It is possible for you to do it all at home if you have a scaled and the correct amount of postage. A calculator is provided by the postal service at http://postcalc.usps.gov/ . But if you do it the easier way, take both packages to the post office. First have the padded/bubble envelope (with the CD’s and everything still inside) weighed and STAMPED. It is VERY important that the padded/bubble envelope have stamps on it and NOT metered postage because postal regulations require that metered postage be used on the date issued, and only for traffic from the originating city. In other words, they are only valid from that post office, on that date. After you have had the padded/bubble envelope stamped, place it (still unsealed) into the outer envelope. Now have the outer envelope weighed with the padded/bubble envelope inside. This can me metered as long as your mailing it at that time (which you should or are).
8. Send an email (or however you are communicating) to the B&P’er and let he or she know that you have mailed the package.
Now just wait a couple weeks or so and you should receive your first show. Once you have received the show you should email the sender and let he or she know you have received the shows. You now have enough to trade or you can get a couple more B&P’s if needed. Enjoy!
Trading
Trading is the primary way for getting shows. In order to trade you must have a CD burner. There are trades always happening on the board. It is between 2 people who set up an “equal” trade and pick a date to send on. An “equal” trade is a 1:1 disc ratio. There is never a case where one show counts more then another. Trading is pretty easy as long as it is done correctly.
1. Find someone to trade with and exchange list of shows and contact information.
2. Determine how large of a trade is going to be done (if not already decided) and each trader decides which shows will be traded. Also determine the format that the shows will be traded in. As in Audio or SHN. (More info on this below)
3. Once the shows are picked by each trader go over the shows and note any flaws in the shows, which include skips, jumps, cut songs, TAO (Track at Once) or poor quality.
4. Once the shows to be traded is agreed upon, talk about the type of discs you will be using and any kind of individual rules you may have. (ie. No writing on discs, including set lists, etc.)
5. Set up a send date. This is the date both traders will mail the shows.
6. Once you receive your shows let the other trader know that you have received them.
The difference/relation/definitions of SHN or Audio Discs.
There are 2 different formats of trading. SHN (sort for Shorten) and Audio. SHN is described in GREAT detail in the downloading forum as it is thee format of internet transfer (currently). I would recommend you check out the FAQ about shn's in the Download Forum if you are interested in trading of pure shows.
Audio: Audio Discs are what they sound like. Audio. These are the kind of trades where you can take the discs from your mailbox and place it into you car cd player or a boombox and it will play. You can create an Audio disc in 2 ways. One is to have an audio disc already and to extract the tracks to your computer and then burn those tracks to a new cd (notice not from one CD to another; on-the-fly). The second way to make an audio disc is by taking SHNs and converting them to audio and then burning that audio to disc. Audio SHOULD NOT be converted to SHN.
SHNs: Are a file. So a SHN disc is like a DATA cd. When you trade in SHNs you normally get a cd with the shn files, the md5, and normally the source file. SHN disc preserve quality to the highest degree. Each copy is the same. There is no loss of "data". SHNs are good for archiving, pure trading, listening to on a computer only. SHN can be converted to audio and in turn make audio discs.
Tips/Rules for Trading
1. NEVER trade any MP3 sourced shows.
2. Communicating is the key to building friends and ensuring a successful trade.
3. Shows are only traded for other shows. Nothing else and always on a 1:1 basis
4. Do not send money or pay for shows.
5. Note ALL mistakes with shows BEFORE trading. Mistakes are fault of the provider if not mentioned ahead of send date.
6. When burning the discs to be traded they should not be burnt “On the Fly” (disc to disc) http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ which is from a cd-rom drive to a burner. The show should be extracted using Exact Audio Copy to the computer hard drive and then burnt to CD.
7. All packages should be padded to prevent disc damage in transfer and the discs should be individually placed in sleeves.
8. Agree to a send date on which the package(s) will be sent. Try to adhere to this agreement as much as you can. If for some reason you didn't send, let the other person know why and when you will be able to.
9. The sender should NOT write on the discs. Sticky notes should be attached to the individual discs and labeled with the show date and disc number.
10. Only trade DAO (Disc At Once) shows. This is when there is no 2-second silence between the tracks. You must set up your CD burner to do this. Do NOT record in TAO (Track At Once), which is with the 2-second gap.
11. Do not use the word “need” when looking for a show. This is very rude. Use the words “would like” or “want to find”.
12. Always obey the rules stated by the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp)
Two-Week Rule:
ISOing (In Search Of) shows before 2 weeks is frowned upon and disrespectful to the tapers as they have lives as well and things to do that are possibly more important than converting a show ASAP. Also, even if the show is out, give it a little time to spread before requesting a B&P. They will come, please have some patience.
Trees
A "Tree" is a term for the process of spreading a new show to many people in a organized and speedy way. A tree is a large organized B&P. It all starts with normally one person (called the Seed) who has they show that will be spread. The first step in a Tree is the “Seed” will ask or select what are called “Branches” who will continue to spread the show. Then there are “Leaves” which are at the end of the tree and receive from the “Branches”. A certain amount of “Leaves” are assigned to each “Branch” and the “Seed” will decide which “Leave” the “Branch” will send to. The “Branches” will receive a copy of the show with a B+P from the “Seed”. The “Branches” will in turn B+P the show to their "Leaves". In some cases of shows that are in high demand an extra step is included to spread faster. They are called “Trunks” and are between the “Seed” and the “Branches”. “Trunks follow the same path as “Branches” would. The majority of people with me “Leaves” and will be informed who will contact them or who they should contact in order to do a B&P for the show.
Common Terms and Their Meanings
DAO : Disc At Once. This is the correct way shows should be. DAO is without the 2-second silence between tracks.
TAO : Track At Once. This is the incorrect way show should be burnt. TAO is with the 2-second silence between tracks.
ISO : In Search Of. This is used to request a show only when you have waited and watched for a show to be offered for awhile.
IEM : In Ear Monitor. These are recordings of the bands In Ear Monitors during the show. These are HIGHLY frowned upon and should not be traded. It is explicitly written so in the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp).
DSBD : Digital Sound Board Recording. Any of these that are before 1996 are ok. But anything there after is against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
DAUD : Digital Audience Recording. This is a tapers recording from the audience during a performance. This is what is allowed by the taping policy to be traded.
AUD : Audience Recording. See DAUD.
MATRIX : A Mix of sources (IEM+DAUD, IEM+DSBD, DAUD+DSBD) These are against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
.SHN : Shorten. A downloading file type and is discussed in the Downloading F.A.Q.
EAC : Exact Audio Copy. A program that rips "perfect" copies of audio CDs.
VCD or SVCD : (Video Compact Disc (Super)). These are video discs that can be played in a DVD player or on a computer. These are against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
AntsMarching.org has all the great trading resources you need. Check them out.
Tour Central (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/index.php) (everything tour and trading related)
Show Search (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/ShowSearch.php) (search the most accurated tour achieve, use this to find users that have a show or to add a show to your list)
Your User Info (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/UserInfo.php) (all your user comments, rating, info, show listing, and much more with AntsMarching.org)
Top Rated AntsMarching.org Traders (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/TopRated.php)
Misfit Shows (http://www.antsmarching.org/music/misfit.php) (list of many misfit shows that are out there)
Hey AntsMarching.org members! This here is your best guide for trading and starting your collection of the many awesome DMB shows that are available to trade. These tips, rules, and help are pretty standard for trading with other bands also.
The first thing to understand about trading is that it is a privilege we are given from the band and management, and is also in thanks of the tapers. In order to retain this privilege it is important we follow the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp). Probably one of the biggest things to note is that you should NEVER pay for a taped show (unless it’s an official release from DMB). Even if you don’t have any shows to start with, there are ways set up for you to get started.
Now you get to start. You want to get your first show and start to build your wonderful collection of music to enjoy and to share with others. To get your very first show you do a process called ‘Blanks and Postage’ (or B&P for short).
B&P (Blanks and Postage)
This is a process that allows a new trader who has a small or non-existent collection to receive shows whether it be as a one time event or in order to begin a extensive collection of shows. The overall process is, in return for sending the correct amount of blank discs with a self-addressed and self-stamped envelope, you receive the shows that the B&P’er was kind enough to help you with. In a B&P, the trader that burns the shows is doing the B&P process with no profit to himself or herself other then the gratification of helping the community out and building friendships and potential traders down the road. You should never have to include anything extra in your B&P such as extra discs or cash or anything.
You should watch for B&P’s to be offered. It is sometimes considered rude to ask for them. If the show you are looking for is not being offered, take up another B&P offer to get yourself a show so that you can trade for the show you are looking for. If the show you wish to get is from a performance from the latest or current tour, just continue to watch the board and B&P's will be offered. Do NOT request a show before 2 weeks following the performance. This is considered extremely rude. Please read below on more information about the 2 week rule. Once you find a B&P offered and you follow the given rules by the poster, you should be contacted via email (or some other form of communication) to set up the B&P.
+So what will I need?
Your going to need a couple things in order to do a B&P. The following supplies can be picked up at any home office retailer (OfficeMax, Staples, etc.).
1. An outer envelope. This can be any envelope capable of holding the rest of your matierals being mailed out. Normally 9" x 12" Brown Clasp Envelopes are used.
2. The returning envelope. This can be any envelope that is padded in some way that can hold your returning CD’s. Normally 6" x 9" Self-Sealing Bubble-Lined Envelopes are used.
3. CD’s. The type of CD is really up to you (they most be CD-R’s not CD-RW’s). There are differences in quality in discs. The preferred CD type for trading is Sony, TDK, Fuji, or Memorex. One thing they DO need to be is the 80 minute CD’s (many shows are longer and need to be on the 80 minute CD’s). They should also be all speed if possible.
4. CD Sleeves or Jewel Cases. Your CD’s should be keep in some sort of protection. CD sleeves are light and will reduce your postage amount compared to Jewel Cases.
5. Standard index cards or some sort of paper to be included into the package for reference information.
(Image here)
Now that you have everything you need it’s time to get it completed.
1. Take the correct number of blank CD’s, as specified by the B&P’er, and place them individually into the CD Sleeves (or Jewel Cases).
2. Take the padded/bubble envelope and put YOUR address as the “Mail To” address, and the return address is that of the B&P’er. (This is the enveloped coming from the B&P’er to you.)
3. Take the blank CD’s that are in the sleeves and place them into the padded/bubble envelope.
4. The note (on the note card). Here you should write down the show you have set up to receive and your email address or however you were communicating with the B&P’er. Also this is your chance to mention how grateful you are for the offer and your chance to build a friendship. Once you are finished place the card into the padded/bubble envelope.
5. DO NOT SEAL THE PADDED/BUBBLE ENVELOPE! If you do this the B&P’er will not be able to remove your discs and burn them.
6. Take the outer envelope and write the B&P’ers address on the outside in the “Mail To” position and your address in the return position. Then put the unsealed padded/bubble envelope into the outer envelope. (Do not seal outer envelope)
7. It is now time to mail them. This part is very important. The easiest way to do this part is to go to your local post office and have it done infront of you. It is possible for you to do it all at home if you have a scaled and the correct amount of postage. A calculator is provided by the postal service at http://postcalc.usps.gov/ . But if you do it the easier way, take both packages to the post office. First have the padded/bubble envelope (with the CD’s and everything still inside) weighed and STAMPED. It is VERY important that the padded/bubble envelope have stamps on it and NOT metered postage because postal regulations require that metered postage be used on the date issued, and only for traffic from the originating city. In other words, they are only valid from that post office, on that date. After you have had the padded/bubble envelope stamped, place it (still unsealed) into the outer envelope. Now have the outer envelope weighed with the padded/bubble envelope inside. This can me metered as long as your mailing it at that time (which you should or are).
8. Send an email (or however you are communicating) to the B&P’er and let he or she know that you have mailed the package.
Now just wait a couple weeks or so and you should receive your first show. Once you have received the show you should email the sender and let he or she know you have received the shows. You now have enough to trade or you can get a couple more B&P’s if needed. Enjoy!
Trading
Trading is the primary way for getting shows. In order to trade you must have a CD burner. There are trades always happening on the board. It is between 2 people who set up an “equal” trade and pick a date to send on. An “equal” trade is a 1:1 disc ratio. There is never a case where one show counts more then another. Trading is pretty easy as long as it is done correctly.
1. Find someone to trade with and exchange list of shows and contact information.
2. Determine how large of a trade is going to be done (if not already decided) and each trader decides which shows will be traded. Also determine the format that the shows will be traded in. As in Audio or SHN. (More info on this below)
3. Once the shows are picked by each trader go over the shows and note any flaws in the shows, which include skips, jumps, cut songs, TAO (Track at Once) or poor quality.
4. Once the shows to be traded is agreed upon, talk about the type of discs you will be using and any kind of individual rules you may have. (ie. No writing on discs, including set lists, etc.)
5. Set up a send date. This is the date both traders will mail the shows.
6. Once you receive your shows let the other trader know that you have received them.
The difference/relation/definitions of SHN or Audio Discs.
There are 2 different formats of trading. SHN (sort for Shorten) and Audio. SHN is described in GREAT detail in the downloading forum as it is thee format of internet transfer (currently). I would recommend you check out the FAQ about shn's in the Download Forum if you are interested in trading of pure shows.
Audio: Audio Discs are what they sound like. Audio. These are the kind of trades where you can take the discs from your mailbox and place it into you car cd player or a boombox and it will play. You can create an Audio disc in 2 ways. One is to have an audio disc already and to extract the tracks to your computer and then burn those tracks to a new cd (notice not from one CD to another; on-the-fly). The second way to make an audio disc is by taking SHNs and converting them to audio and then burning that audio to disc. Audio SHOULD NOT be converted to SHN.
SHNs: Are a file. So a SHN disc is like a DATA cd. When you trade in SHNs you normally get a cd with the shn files, the md5, and normally the source file. SHN disc preserve quality to the highest degree. Each copy is the same. There is no loss of "data". SHNs are good for archiving, pure trading, listening to on a computer only. SHN can be converted to audio and in turn make audio discs.
Tips/Rules for Trading
1. NEVER trade any MP3 sourced shows.
2. Communicating is the key to building friends and ensuring a successful trade.
3. Shows are only traded for other shows. Nothing else and always on a 1:1 basis
4. Do not send money or pay for shows.
5. Note ALL mistakes with shows BEFORE trading. Mistakes are fault of the provider if not mentioned ahead of send date.
6. When burning the discs to be traded they should not be burnt “On the Fly” (disc to disc) http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/ which is from a cd-rom drive to a burner. The show should be extracted using Exact Audio Copy to the computer hard drive and then burnt to CD.
7. All packages should be padded to prevent disc damage in transfer and the discs should be individually placed in sleeves.
8. Agree to a send date on which the package(s) will be sent. Try to adhere to this agreement as much as you can. If for some reason you didn't send, let the other person know why and when you will be able to.
9. The sender should NOT write on the discs. Sticky notes should be attached to the individual discs and labeled with the show date and disc number.
10. Only trade DAO (Disc At Once) shows. This is when there is no 2-second silence between the tracks. You must set up your CD burner to do this. Do NOT record in TAO (Track At Once), which is with the 2-second gap.
11. Do not use the word “need” when looking for a show. This is very rude. Use the words “would like” or “want to find”.
12. Always obey the rules stated by the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp)
Two-Week Rule:
ISOing (In Search Of) shows before 2 weeks is frowned upon and disrespectful to the tapers as they have lives as well and things to do that are possibly more important than converting a show ASAP. Also, even if the show is out, give it a little time to spread before requesting a B&P. They will come, please have some patience.
Trees
A "Tree" is a term for the process of spreading a new show to many people in a organized and speedy way. A tree is a large organized B&P. It all starts with normally one person (called the Seed) who has they show that will be spread. The first step in a Tree is the “Seed” will ask or select what are called “Branches” who will continue to spread the show. Then there are “Leaves” which are at the end of the tree and receive from the “Branches”. A certain amount of “Leaves” are assigned to each “Branch” and the “Seed” will decide which “Leave” the “Branch” will send to. The “Branches” will receive a copy of the show with a B+P from the “Seed”. The “Branches” will in turn B+P the show to their "Leaves". In some cases of shows that are in high demand an extra step is included to spread faster. They are called “Trunks” and are between the “Seed” and the “Branches”. “Trunks follow the same path as “Branches” would. The majority of people with me “Leaves” and will be informed who will contact them or who they should contact in order to do a B&P for the show.
Common Terms and Their Meanings
DAO : Disc At Once. This is the correct way shows should be. DAO is without the 2-second silence between tracks.
TAO : Track At Once. This is the incorrect way show should be burnt. TAO is with the 2-second silence between tracks.
ISO : In Search Of. This is used to request a show only when you have waited and watched for a show to be offered for awhile.
IEM : In Ear Monitor. These are recordings of the bands In Ear Monitors during the show. These are HIGHLY frowned upon and should not be traded. It is explicitly written so in the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp).
DSBD : Digital Sound Board Recording. Any of these that are before 1996 are ok. But anything there after is against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
DAUD : Digital Audience Recording. This is a tapers recording from the audience during a performance. This is what is allowed by the taping policy to be traded.
AUD : Audience Recording. See DAUD.
MATRIX : A Mix of sources (IEM+DAUD, IEM+DSBD, DAUD+DSBD) These are against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
.SHN : Shorten. A downloading file type and is discussed in the Downloading F.A.Q.
EAC : Exact Audio Copy. A program that rips "perfect" copies of audio CDs.
VCD or SVCD : (Video Compact Disc (Super)). These are video discs that can be played in a DVD player or on a computer. These are against the Dave Matthews Band Taping Policy (http://www.dmband.com/legal_popup.asp) and should not be traded.
AntsMarching.org has all the great trading resources you need. Check them out.
Tour Central (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/index.php) (everything tour and trading related)
Show Search (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/ShowSearch.php) (search the most accurated tour achieve, use this to find users that have a show or to add a show to your list)
Your User Info (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/UserInfo.php) (all your user comments, rating, info, show listing, and much more with AntsMarching.org)
Top Rated AntsMarching.org Traders (http://www.antsmarching.org/setlists/TopRated.php)
Misfit Shows (http://www.antsmarching.org/music/misfit.php) (list of many misfit shows that are out there)