The Dave/Lillywhite relationship

[*loverulesme*]

As I understand it, Lillywhite has produced many very good albums, not only for DMB. He's got true cred that has withstood the test of time.

When he and Dave worked together back in the day, Dave was, in so many ways, a different person--certainly the life circumstances that informed his music were extremely different than today, and he was a young man/artist on the rise.

Now, Dave is the undisputed big shot of this whole situation/organization, one of the world's most successful musicians, and he makes his role as the alpha known very regularly.

Given Dave's now very cushy life, will he even be able to create music on par with what he created earlier? I mean, will stays at The Four Seasons when possible while on tour, flying in and out of Bonnaroo just for his show, and zero need to "make it" (financially and otherwise) make for the life events that inform great art? Great art often emerges from struggle, and, well . . . is Dave struggling in the ways that artists need to in order to do their best work?

Also, do Dave and Lillywhite share a vision? Can Dave even see what Lillywhite sees and understands (or at least did in the past)?

Will Dave, the alpha, be willing to accept Lillywhite's insights and direction at this point in time?

I read that Lillywhite wanted to hold these studio sessions in a neutral place, LA, because he found that when they worked at Haunted Hollow, there was that 9-5 attitude and not the kind of commitment from the band that he thought would produce the best results. Lillywhite apparently believed that it was just too easy for band members to return to respective homes at night and not fully immerse themselves in the process.

Already, however, Dave seems to have been the one to veto Lillywhite's LA idea and decided that the sessions will occur in Seattle. This way, only one person continues with his day in/day out life, and it's the one person who may need to be sequestered in a place like LA the most. . . .

Makes me wonder if our favorite monkey still has not only the creative potential but also just the willingness to be led.

[aronofsky41]

As I understand it, Lillywhite has produced many very good albums, not only for DMB. He's got true cred that has withstood the test of time.

When he and Dave worked together back in the day, Dave was, in so many ways, a different person--certainly the life circumstances that informed his music were extremely different than today, and he was a young man/artist on the rise.

Now, Dave is the undisputed big shot of this whole situation/organization, one of the world's most successful musicians, and he makes his role as the alpha known very regularly.

Given Dave's now very cushy life, will he even be able to create music on par with what he created earlier? I mean, will stays at The Four Seasons when possible while on tour, flying in and out of Bonnaroo just for his show, and zero need to "make it" (financially and otherwise) make for the life events that inform great art? Great art often emerges from struggle, and, well . . . is Dave struggling in the ways that artists need to in order to do their best work?

Also, do Dave and Lillywhite share a vision? Can Dave even see what Lillywhite sees and understands (or at least did in the past)?

Will Dave, the alpha, be willing to accept Lillywhite's insights and direction at this point in time?

I read that Lillywhite wanted to hold these studio sessions in a neutral place, LA, because he found that when they worked at Haunted Hollow, there was that 9-5 attitude and not the kind of commitment from the band that he thought would produce the best results. Lillywhite apparently believed that it was just too easy for band members to return to respective homes at night and not fully immerse themselves in the process.

Already, however, Dave seems to have been the one to veto Lillywhite's LA idea and decided that the sessions will occur in Seattle. This way, only one person continues with his day in/day out life, and it's the one person who may need to be sequestered in a place like LA the most. . . .

Makes me wonder if our favorite monkey still has not only the creative potential but also just the willingness to be led.

You raise valid concerns. Which is why I think most people don't expect this album to be quite up to par with the big 3.

But Steve is still the best chance the have to achieve greatness again.

[*loverulesme*]

You raise valid concerns. Which is why I think most people don't expect this album to be quite up to par with the big 3.

But Steve is still the best chance the have to achieve greatness again.

Yeah, and I guess I do see Dave as the potentially problematic one, not Lillywhite--which may be unfair, but I do feel that way.

[Riverrat1]

We all know that Dave wants to create wonderful music. He has to realize that the music from the the first three albums is wonderful. Realizing this, he (and the band members) chose to bring back Lillywhite. I don't think there is a question of his working with Lillywhite to produce a wonderful, well-rounded album. The question therein is if he has the music in him, which I think he does.

[aronofsky41]

Yeah, and I guess I do see Dave as the potentially problematic one, not Lillywhite--which may be unfair, but I do feel that way.

Oh. Dave is the problem, there's no doubt.

Look, I can't fault the guy if his creative well has dried up to an extent. It happens, and he can't control it.

What he CAN control is working his ass off to make the best studio record possible given whatever talent level he does have. And it's blatantly obvious that during at least some studio sessions over the last decade, Dave has not been that committed.

[smokew11]

I love all these threads that analyze Dave and his personal life.

[aronofsky41]

I love all these threads that analyze Dave and his personal life.

I quite enjoy them myself, and not sarcastically.

[*loverulesme*]

We all know that Dave wants to create wonderful music. He has to realize that the music from the the first three albums is wonderful. Realizing this, he (and the band members) chose to bring back Lillywhite. I don't think there is a question of his working with Lillywhite to produce a wonderful, well-rounded album. The question therein is if he has the music in him, which I think he does.


I would love nothing more than to agree with you about what Dave "realizes," but I think he has proven that he is very often too close to the forest to see the trees. I think our best hope is that he has realized his *lack* of ability to realize/see clearly and know that Lillywhite has this crucial skill. It would be a great, great strength if Dave could accept his own limitations in this way and really, really open himself up to Lillywhite's direction.

I can only say that like everyone else here, I hope you are right about what potential Dave may still possess musically.

Of course potential, if it is there, combined with laziness or burn out doesn't go far either, so let's hope Dave is feeling musically frisky these days. Let's hope last year was just what he needed.

[aronofsky41]

I would love nothing more than to agree with you about what Dave "realizes," but I think he has proven that he is very often too close to the forest to see the trees. I think our best hope is that he has realized his *lack* of ability to realize/see clearly and know that Lillywhite has this crucial skill. It would be a great, great strength if Dave could accept his own limitations in this way and really, really open himself up to Lillywhite's direction.

I can only say that like everyone else here, I hope you are right about what potential Dave may still possess musically.

Of course potential, if it is there, combined with laziness or burn out doesn't go far either, so let's hope Dave is feeling musically frisky these days. Let's hope last year was just what he needed.

Amen. :thumbsup

[aronofsky41]

Look, we all know that Dave could fart into a microphone for an hour, call it "Stand Up Again!" and still sell a bajillion concert tickets. The drive to create amazing music has to come from within Dave. There's no external motivation or pressure.

[*loverulesme*]

What he CAN control is working his ass off to make the best studio record possible given whatever talent level he does have.

Yes, Dave, PLEASE, Dig Deep Every Day! Work your ass off!!!

[dobyblue]

If Dave was so dominant, why has each producer had such an impact over the sound of the last three records? I think this alone bears well for Lillywhite to pull out a great record from the guys.

[42graystreet]

Jesus. Can we listen to the record first before saying it sucks/not on par with Big 3/marginally better than SU?

[aronofsky41]

Jesus. Can we listen to the record first before saying it sucks/not on par with Big 3/marginally better than SU?

Fuck waiting, I'm already hailing it as the best album they've released since 1998.

[LadyMadonna68]

I love all these threads that analyze Dave and his personal life.

We all just know him so well, I've seen them in concert like, 12 times. We're practically blood now.

[Arby]

Just because Dave is rich and successful doesnt mean there is no struggle.

[jv41]

all good points... also, will dave let him produced a 9+ minute studio masterpiece like Proudest Monkey, or will he say, no every track has to be 3:30 which he learned from ballard. i realize that just because a song is long doesn't mean it's good, but it's the whole concept of do we want to make this radio friendly or do we want to make a great album. and how much say does the record company have. because the record company is obviously going to want something that sells and gets radio play. it just seems like from what i've read and seen in interviews that dave is more on the side of ballard with that stuff and i just hope they don't get into too many disagreements in the studio. But to keep it positive, i think that just the fact that they are recording with him is a very good sign that they know what the long time fans want.

[crounsa810]

Fuck we need a summer tour already. This offseason has to be the most annoying one I've ever seen. For a board that is "Dave Matthews Band" fans, there is a whole lot of "They suck" going on. Also, I feel as though I read this same essay at least 50 other times within the other various threads that also state that Lillywhite and Dave are going to kill each other or something.

[aronofsky41]

Fuck we need a summer tour already. This offseason has to be the most annoying one I've ever seen. For a board that is "Dave Matthews Band" fans, there is a whole lot of "They suck" going on. Also, I feel as though I read this same essay at least 50 other times within the other various threads that also state that Lillywhite and Dave are going to kill each other or something.

Just stick to reading my posts. They are all about how amazing the new album is going be. You should like that.

[boydismyhomeboy]

Look, we all know that Dave could fart into a microphone for an hour, call it "Stand Up Again!" and still sell a bajillion concert tickets. The drive to create amazing music has to come from within Dave. There's no external motivation or pressure.

i dont hardly ever comment on here at all (see post count), but this was too hilariously awesome to just go unnoticed. Thanks for the laugh. Ok now I'm done.

[aronofsky41]

i dont hardly ever comment on here at all (see post count), but this was too hilariously awesome to just go unnoticed. Thanks for the laugh. Ok now I'm done.

:) Thanks for the comment, I'm glad it amused someone!

[trippingbillie4]

IF this record sucks it will be 100% on Dave. But I've calculated that there's about a .000001% chance of that happening. There's obviously a reason they've brought the genius back and it's not because they want to make a pop record. I believe it's a sign that Dave does want to work his ass off. Maybe he's more humble now and realizes Lillywhite always had the best intentions at heart.

[CGTP13]

I didn't know Lillywhite wanted to record in LA and Dave said no. Where did that come from?

[42graystreet]

I didn't know Lillywhite wanted to record in LA and Dave said no. Where did that come from?

Unlinked accusation.

[CGTP13]

Unlinked accusation.

That's what I figured.

[stlbluespower]

Just because Dave is rich and successful doesnt mean there is no struggle.

Don't know if this is true either, but is at least as valid as the common suggestion he has no inner demons of any kind now. To a certain extent, the entire commercial behemoth that is DMB (other DMB members and their families, the road crew, those industrious selfless worker bees at the Warehouse, concert venue employees, etc., etc., etc.) all rely on Dave continuing to be the charasmatic, creative leader he has always been. That's just a smidge of pressure I would imagine.

[*loverulesme*]

If Dave was so dominant, why has each producer had such an impact over the sound of the last three records? I think this alone bears well for Lillywhite to pull out a great record from the guys.


Excellent point. Gives me a perspective I didn't have. Thanks a lot for this insight!


Just because Dave is rich and successful doesnt mean there is no struggle.


In many ways, it could mean that. I remember an essay included in the preface by Tennessee Williams after the success of A Streetcar Named Desire in which he discusses how his life changed to the cushy once he became a rich and successful artist. Long story short, he eventually deserted places like The Four Seasons because he felt that this new lifestyle was affecting his ability to produce quality art. There's a famous quote from that preface:

"Once you fully apprehend the vacuity of a life without struggle, you have the basic means of salvation."

In the end, Williams returned to the scrappy life for the sake of his art.


I didn't know Lillywhite wanted to record in LA and Dave said no. Where did that come from?

I come here and read a lot--much, much, much more than I post because I'm more of a listener than a talker. The LA thing was in the air a while back, but I'm not sure of its reality/dynamics. Could have just been an Ants rumor that stuck with me. Sorry if I have inadvertently created unfounded gossip here. Really don't know if it was just an Ants thing or something real. Maybe someone else does.

[Panther41]

The thing about Dave Matthews--which so few people seem to get--is that he's NOT an egotistical, type-A personality who thinks everything he does is hilarious & every set he plays is epic. I have encountered so many non-fans who have this impression that he's just some kind of asshole, another cocky frontman who is eccentric because he's rich.

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is. So people who are worried that his life's too cushy, that he's slacking off and not working hard enough... no. I don't think that's a problem.

He also comes off a bit ADHD in interviews, in case nobody's noticed. So maybe getting him to focus is more the issue.

Lillywhite: "Okay Dave, let's take it from the top."
Dave: (singing) "In the spotlight---SQUIRREL!"
Lillywhite: (snapping fingers) "Dave! Dave! We're rolling. Sing."

[crounsa810]

He also comes off a bit ADHD in interviews, in case nobody's noticed. So maybe getting him to focus is more the issue.

Lillywhite: "Okay Dave, let's take it from the top."
Dave: (singing) "In the spotlight---SQUIRREL!"
Lillywhite: (snapping fingers) "Dave! Dave! We're rolling. Sing."


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I could see that lolol

[canes101190]

Jesus. Can we listen to the record first before saying it sucks/not on par with Big 3/marginally better than SU?

No, we must judge it before we're even sure they're setting out to make an album!!!!

[davetripping02]

whats a lillywhite?

[jaymas9]

The thing about Dave Matthews--which so few people seem to get--is that he's NOT an egotistical, type-A personality who thinks everything he does is hilarious & every set he plays is epic. I have encountered so many non-fans who have this impression that he's just some kind of asshole, another cocky frontman who is eccentric because he's rich.

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is. So people who are worried that his life's too cushy, that he's slacking off and not working hard enough... no. I don't think that's a problem.

He also comes off a bit ADHD in interviews, in case nobody's noticed. So maybe getting him to focus is more the issue.

Lillywhite: "Okay Dave, let's take it from the top."
Dave: (singing) "In the spotlight---SQUIRREL!"
Lillywhite: (snapping fingers) "Dave! Dave! We're rolling. Sing.":thumbsup:thumbsup. Hit the nail on the head.

[HTils08]

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.


which musicians in particular does he talk about? i remember reading that he was a huge beatles fan when he was young and knew the whole catalog, but who else does he consider his musical heroes/influences/all-time greats?

he always expresses the fact that he doesn't consider himself a "great" guitar player. i have seen/heard/read on more than one occasion dave referring to the fact that he plays guitar on stage "so he has something to do with his hands." the guy invented a style and inspired me to pick up a guitar, but i can't argue with the fact that he does need something to do with his hands--wish i knew a video off the top of my head of him just on vocals

[vaxarado]

whats a lillywhite?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Fg8AbURNBeg/S8ZfUTD9A_I/AAAAAAAAA-I/wDIbgrXK8fU/s1600/lilly+white+01.jpg

[bphlzl]

No, we must judge it before we're even sure they're setting out to make an album!!!!Touche!

1

[Panther41]

but i can't argue with the fact that he does need something to do with his hands--wish i knew a video off the top of my head of him just on vocals

Back around the turn of the century, he got on stage with the Rolling Stones. I seem to remember his looking horribly awkward without a guitar in his hands. :lol

[cooke726]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TizczTHThM


only one verse for dave...but only performance I find where he is not playing a guitar while singing

[bubba40]

I think the overriding emotion for the band in wishing to re-enter a studio with Lillywhite was more or less a collective "You know what, it's clear that our best studio efforts came with this guy"

[crashintonickdm]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TizczTHThM


only one verse for dave...but only performance I find where he is not playing a guitar while singing

Kenny has a guitar and is moving his hands but I mean is it just a prop?

Kenny sucks

[EduardoEduardo]

The thing about Dave Matthews--which so few people seem to get--is that he's NOT an egotistical, type-A personality who thinks everything he does is hilarious & every set he plays is epic. I have encountered so many non-fans who have this impression that he's just some kind of asshole, another cocky frontman who is eccentric because he's rich.

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is. So people who are worried that his life's too cushy, that he's slacking off and not working hard enough... no. I don't think that's a problem.

^Ring of truth.^

[aronofsky41]

I think the overriding emotion for the band in wishing to re-enter a studio with Lillywhite was more or less a collective "You know what, it's clear that our best studio efforts came with this guy"

I do indeed hope this is true.

[420th jimi]

which musicians in particular does he talk about? i remember reading that he was a huge beatles fan when he was young and knew the whole catalog, but who else does he consider his musical heroes/influences/all-time greats?

he always expresses the fact that he doesn't consider himself a "great" guitar player. i have seen/heard/read on more than one occasion dave referring to the fact that he plays guitar on stage "so he has something to do with his hands." the guy invented a style and inspired me to pick up a guitar, but i can't argue with the fact that he does need something to do with his hands--wish i knew a video off the top of my head of him just on vocals

He talks about Neil Young, Daniel Lanois, The Beatles and bands that he covers as his hero's. He also said he is a huge fan of Mumford and Sons. Pete Seegar is another one that comes to mind. He reminisced about going to a Pete Seegar show when his father was still alive. He went with both his parents actually. Peter Gabriel is another one. The bands he and the band cover are a good place to discover who he considers to be his hero's.

[KillerBunny]

Just because Dave is rich and successful doesnt mean there is no struggle.

This ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++

[*loverulesme*]

No, we must judge it before we're even sure they're setting out to make an album!!!!


We're not sure they're setting out to make an album?

[canes101190]

We're not sure they're setting out to make an album?

No, we're not. It's possible we don't see an actual released album until 2014. This could very easily be a 2 year process, much like Big Whiskey.

[jaymas9]

I think the overriding emotion for the band in wishing to re-enter a studio with Lillywhite was more or less a collective "You know what, it's clear that our best studio efforts came with this guy"Don't come at this thread with your sound logic bubba.

[Luv4Roi]

Dave Matthews is conceited.

[jmythng]

The thing about Dave Matthews--which so few people seem to get--is that he's NOT an egotistical, type-A personality who thinks everything he does is hilarious & every set he plays is epic. I have encountered so many non-fans who have this impression that he's just some kind of asshole, another cocky frontman who is eccentric because he's rich.

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is. So people who are worried that his life's too cushy, that he's slacking off and not working hard enough... no. I don't think that's a problem.

He also comes off a bit ADHD in interviews, in case nobody's noticed. So maybe getting him to focus is more the issue.

Lillywhite: "Okay Dave, let's take it from the top."
Dave: (singing) "In the spotlight---SQUIRREL!"
Lillywhite: (snapping fingers) "Dave! Dave! We're rolling. Sing."

Amen! I met Dave in '07 and he was the nicest person. I have not met too many celebrities but he was very humble and took the time to stop and talk to me and my family. Thank God because I have spent a hell of a lot of money on seeing him around the country and would have been really upset if he was a jerk!
I agree Dave and everyone else in the band has all changed their lifestyles since they were the young and struggling band in the 90's and I'm sure most inspiration comes from struggling and wanting but I feel if you're talented enough, good music can be made.

[davetripping02]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Fg8AbURNBeg/S8ZfUTD9A_I/AAAAAAAAA-I/wDIbgrXK8fU/s1600/lilly+white+01.jpg


lol thanks.

[kanedmb]

Sillywhite tweet:

good vibes...


Yay!!

[greystreet46]

I understand the questions you bring up regarding the artistic challenges that Dave may now be facing at this point in his life. It however is very difficult for me to approach DMB music only considering the artistic direction of Dave. When comparing albums I also find it very hard to overlook the musical complexity of Big Whiskey. My point is that the band as a whole is getting better and better, and with a 2012 reunion with Lillywhite, We all have reason to be optomistic.

[vklugf]

I understand the questions you bring up regarding the artistic challenges that Dave may now be facing at this point in his life. It however is very difficult for me to approach DMB music only considering the artistic direction of Dave. When comparing albums I also find it very hard to overlook the musical complexity of Big Whiskey. My point is that the band as a whole is getting better and better, and with a 2012 reunion with Lillywhite, We all have reason to be optomistic.

Do you think that Big whiskey was more complex (and in your opinion better) than BTCS?

[*loverulesme*]

First, thanks for posting! You have waded into the waters of speaking out here. You're brave! :)

Now, in response:


I understand the questions you bring up regarding the artistic challenges that Dave may now be facing at this point in his life. It however is very difficult for me to approach DMB music only considering the artistic direction of Dave.


Dave is THE man. Without him, TR3 plays many tiny, tiny gigs for little money--where fans easily are near him throughout the show, meet him if desired, and some even receive kisses on the hand from the guy if they talk to him for long enough.

Without Dave, Stefan plays FREE gigs in Aspen with YK.

Without Dave, Boyd puts out *one* album, one that very likely made him realize even more clearly how much he owes DMB. I could go on, but the general theme is that these musicians are very talented and often do other high-quality work, but so are/do a zillion other musicians. Dave is the *one* who lifts--or doesn't lift--the situation into the stratosphere.



When comparing albums I also find it very hard to overlook the musical complexity of Big Whiskey.


Agreed that BW has its moments of complexity--namely, #1 Alligator Pie; #2 LITHOG, especially live.

Baby Blue is good, but not so complex--just very pretty.

Otherwise, there are a lot of misses on BW--at least for me. I go to shows, though, and observe that the younger fans eat up the BW tunes overall, proving their appreciation by really dancing and singing along. I stand still and watch them, waiting for my next turn to be inspired like that, hopefully w/the next song.



My point is that the band as a whole is getting better and better, and with a 2012 reunion with Lillywhite, We all have reason to be optomistic.

I wouldn't say that the band is getting better and better, which is what is so difficult. Parts of BW are tantalizing turns in the right direction, as exemplified above, after a long period of being musically lost.

I hope very much, as do we all, that Lillywhite can work his magic again and be that missing map/GPS that helps w/creating an outstanding album overall.

[densbucs]

Making people think... Good stuff.

[trippinchad]

We don't know that Dave vetoed Lillywhites LA idea...this maybe not be a true album recording session yet. They could just be out west layin out some ideas there.

[holdyouclose]

Back to Sausalito and The Record Plant!

I think they are more than capable of making a great album musically, they're way too talented not to.
I'm just weary of Dave coming up with lyrics that rival his best, but if there's a glimmer of hope, it's LITHOG....

[Luv4Roi]

We don't know that Dave vetoed Lillywhites LA idea...this maybe not be a true album recording session yet. They could just be out west layin out some ideas there.

I'm willing to bet that's the plan. Work out some ideas at Litho, and then really shine them up in another studio away from it all. But what the fuck do i know. :lol

[Funkyhamster]

I read that Lillywhite wanted to hold these studio sessions in a neutral place, LA, because he found that when they worked at Haunted Hollow, there was that 9-5 attitude and not the kind of commitment from the band that he thought would produce the best results. Lillywhite apparently believed that it was just too easy for band members to return to respective homes at night and not fully immerse themselves in the process.

Are you sure you're not getting this story from the Lillywhite Sessions? There are lots of stories out there about how Lillywhite noticed this 9-5 attitude as they worked at Haunted Hollow back in 2000. I haven't seen anything indicating that Lillywhite didn't want to work in Seattle this time around though.

[aronofsky41]

Would they really pay Lillywhite right now to go into the studio with them for 2 months or more, and not expect an album at the end of it though? If they were just going to do some songwriting and concept development, couldn't they do that without paying a star producer to sit there and watch them? Just food for thought...

[CGTP13]

Would they really pay Lillywhite right now to go into the studio with them for 2 months or more, and not expect an album at the end of it though? If they were just going to do some songwriting and concept development, couldn't they do that without paying a star producer to sit there and watch them? Just food for thought...

They did an early session with Cavallo in early 2008 then finished the album after the tour. I doubt this is any different especially if they're working on mostly new material which I think they are.

[aronofsky41]

They did an early session with Cavallo in early 2008 then finished the album after the tour. I doubt this is any different especially if they're working on mostly new material which I think they are.

Yeah, it's possible then. Although my guess is Steve commands a lot more cash than Rob for his time. Although maybe I'm wrong about that too.

Whooo knooooooows.

[CGTP13]

Yeah, it's possible then. Although my guess is Steve commands a lot more cash than Rob for his time. Although maybe I'm wrong about that too.

Whooo knooooooows.

I mean, I'm pretty sure Lillywhite was present for the early BTCS/LWs sessions so I don't know why he wouldn't be around now.

[aronofsky41]

I mean, I'm pretty sure Lillywhite was present for the early BTCS/LWs sessions so I don't know why he wouldn't be around now.

Were there early sessions for those albums that Steve attended? I was pretty sure those were one shot deals...

[CGTP13]

Were there early sessions for those albums that Steve attended? I was pretty sure those were one shot deals...

It was my understanding that they all got together in late 99-early 00 to write/record the followup to BTCS.

I'm sure during that time, Dave worked some stuff out himself but once the whole band got together, Lillywhite was there too.

And for your comment about money, I doubt DMB is too worried about how much they're paying a producer.

[Utopia]

I like this thread.

[Utopia]

There were some really good things happening on Big Whiskey. I think with that potential and the direction of Lillywhite, this next album could be a true return to Big 3 material. I think Lillywhite can guide Dave, especially when they're all in the studio milling over lyrics and music, moreso than any other producer that has worked with them.

[harryhoudini]

The thing about Dave Matthews--which so few people seem to get--is that he's NOT an egotistical, type-A personality who thinks everything he does is hilarious & every set he plays is epic. I have encountered so many non-fans who have this impression that he's just some kind of asshole, another cocky frontman who is eccentric because he's rich.

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is. So people who are worried that his life's too cushy, that he's slacking off and not working hard enough... no. I don't think that's a problem.

He also comes off a bit ADHD in interviews, in case nobody's noticed. So maybe getting him to focus is more the issue.

Lillywhite: "Okay Dave, let's take it from the top."
Dave: (singing) "In the spotlight---SQUIRREL!"
Lillywhite: (snapping fingers) "Dave! Dave! We're rolling. Sing."

While this is 100% accurate, you are using one circumstance to identify behavior in a totally different one. Yes he is terribly humble in public and a down to earth guy. My cousin lives in his neighborhood and often sees him around town. He doesn't hold himself above others, yada yada yada.

However, who knows what he's like during the creative process. Just b/c people have had down to earth experiences with him in person doesn't mean that he isn't a tough guy to harness creatively. I'm not going to say all the ways that things could be different creatively, but the point is, we don't know.

Getting back to the OP, I think you are posing a great question we can't answer. What we do know is there was a time that the going got tough (tLWS) and the band/dave bailed. The band has never reached the level they were at since that time. Maybe a song or a few songs have, but not a collective work. What's even worse is Dave has endorsed every album since as their best work ever.

[aronofsky41]

While this is 100% accurate, you are using one circumstance to identify behavior in a totally different one. Yes he is terribly humble in public and a down to earth guy. My cousin lives in his neighborhood and often sees him around town. He doesn't hold himself above others, yada yada yada.

However, who knows what he's like during the creative process. Just b/c people have had down to earth experiences with him in person doesn't mean that he isn't a tough guy to harness creatively. I'm not going to say all the ways that things could be different creatively, but the point is, we don't know.

Getting back to the OP, I think you are posing a great question we can't answer. What we do know is there was a time that the going got tough (tLWS) and the band/dave bailed. The band has never reached the level they were at since that time. Maybe a song or a few songs have, but not a collective work. What's even worse is Dave has endorsed every album since as their best work ever.

:thumbsup:thumbsup to all of this.

[thehammer316]

It was my understanding that they all got together in late 99-early 00 to write/record the followup to BTCS.

I'm sure during that time, Dave worked some stuff out himself but once the whole band got together, Lillywhite was there too.

And for your comment about money, I doubt DMB is too worried about how much they're paying a producer.

Especially for the Production Credit when this thing hits the shelf. Money is not a big issue.

[dduncan6er]

Money won't be an issue guys. I heard Dave and the boys have been saving all their change since tLWS leaked.

[trautwein.m]

Money won't be an issue guys. I heard Dave and the boys have been saving all their change since tLWS leaked.

Coin star takes 8 and 9/10 cents on every dollar though...

Also sweet avatar. Go steamroller.

[iggysoccer20]

[QUOTE=harryhoudini;13247179]
However, who knows what he's like during the creative process. Just b/c people have had down to earth experiences with him in person doesn't mean that he isn't a tough guy to harness creatively. I'm not going to say all the ways that things could be different creatively, but the point is, we don't know. [QUOTE]

I tend to agree with this. However, perhaps there are clues of Dave's attitude in the studio here and there. I do recall Dave speaking somewhere about the songwriting process and describing himself as only feeling particularly possessive of the lyrics. I think perhaps it was in the Abbey Road footage before he plays Crash. Not sure.

Also, as has been noted earlier in the thread, he is at least modest regarding where he stands in terms of technical musical ability. I'm inclined to think he is fairly conscious of the fact that Carter and Jeff are better on their instruments and would not hesitate to defer to them at times. Granted, technical ability is by no means requisite for great music; the big three are evidence enough of this. For me, their greatness is in their air of effortless genius often, and aptly, described as "magic." This is not to say they are not musically complex at times, just that this is not the essential cause of their greatness.

I'm beginning to wander - the point is, I think its safe to assume (all possible consequences readily accepted) that Dave is not overly assertive of his own will in the studio. Maybe I'm deluding myself; I know there have been indications otherwise with past albums. I just have such an ideal image of everyone in the band working together and taking each other's input seriously. Here's to hopin'!

Edit: Solid quote.

[acousticmike80]

Since the majority of this thread is of the speculative nature, I will add my two or three cents.

None of us truly know how or what kind of relationship they have. But, we do know that there have been rocky times with the band and with Lillywhite. It's safe to assume that with success comes stronger egos, opinions and different lifestyles. When you are on the way up, you are hungry/eager and willing to do whatever it takes. When you reach the summit, where do you go from there? As they say..."the wind blows hardest at the top of the mountain..."

We also know that Lillywhite has high expectations and demands a good product. As the band began to "drift", he started to lose them. I am sure to some degree Dave (and others) grew tired of the effort and listening to the marching orders. We also know (self admittedly) that Dave did not view himself as the leader and did not really want to be the leader. This lead to everything we all know about...

For them to come back together at this point though, is a great sign. BWGGK was a great bounceback effort and most likely demonstrated to Lillywhite that they were serious to begin working hard in the studio and making great music. The band, personnel and times are different now...but maybe that is a good thing.

All I know is that when a lot is at stake and there are many creative people involved....it can get very testy and intense. I just hope Lillywhite isn't afraid to still "push" them. I hope he does not become more reserved, due to the time that has elapsed since they last worked together.

Unlike others, I do think Dave has many great lyrics and songs left in him. I think once he and Lillywhite parted ways, Dave lost his direction, his motivator, his leader. What actually drove him nuts (at the time), was what was helping him to create what made him comfortable. They needed a break...they all did. And they had their time apart. But, I think they both realize that they are at their best when they are together...so it should be one hell of a ride!

[aronofsky41]

Since the majority of this thread is of the speculative nature, I will add my two or three cents.

None of us truly know how or what kind of relationship they have. But, we do know that there have been rocky times with the band and with Lillywhite. It's safe to assume that with success comes stronger egos, opinions and different lifestyles. When you are on the way up, you are hungry/eager and willing to do whatever it takes. When you reach the summit, where do you go from there? As they say..."the wind blows hardest at the top of the mountain..."

We also know that Lillywhite has high expectations and demands a good product. As the band began to "drift", he started to lose them. I am sure to some degree Dave (and others) grew tired of the effort and listening to the marching orders. We also know (self admittedly) that Dave did not view himself as the leader and did not really want to be the leader. This lead to everything we all know about...

For them to come back together at this point though, is a great sign. BWGGK was a great bounceback effort and most likely demonstrated to Lillywhite that they were serious to begin working hard in the studio and making great music. The band, personnel and times are different now...but maybe that is a good thing.

All I know is that when a lot is at stake and there are many creative people involved....it can get very testy and intense. I just hope Lillywhite isn't afraid to still "push" them. I hope he does not become more reserved, due to the time that has elapsed since they last worked together.

Unlike others, I do think Dave has many great lyrics and songs left in him. I think once he and Lillywhite parted ways, Dave lost his direction, his motivator, his leader. What actually drove him nuts (at the time), was what was helping him to create what made him comfortable. They needed a break...they all did. And they had their time apart. But, I think they both realize that they are at their best when they are together...so it should be one hell of a ride!

I wasn't against Dave branching out and trying to work with someone new. But after 2 tries (Everyday, Busted Stuff) that clearly yielded inferior work to what they had done with Lillywhite (IMO), that should have been enough and they should have gone back to him in 2004. Without a doubt.

Oh well. Better (very) late than never!

[acousticmike80]

I wasn't against Dave branching out and trying to work with someone new. But after 2 tries (Everyday, Busted Stuff) that clearly yielded inferior work to what they had done with Lillywhite (IMO), that should have been enough and they should have gone back to him in 2004. Without a doubt.

Oh well. Better (very) late than never!

Totally agree.

But when you are in a hole, sometimes it is hard to see the way out...or even know how deep a hole you are in.

When the band almost broke up (or did, for all intents and purposes), that was a crossroads going into the 2008 tour. They went from rock bottom to and all time high in energy/excitement....before Roi passed (RIP).

They were "re-born" and got themselves off the mat with a solid record, with the help of Cavallo.

Now that they have their confidence and "sea legs" back...they have the balls to give it a run with Lillywhite again and see if they can recapture greatness.

They are being very honest about what they want....

[jaymas9]

Totally agree.

But when you are in a hole, sometimes it is hard to see the way out...or even know how deep a hole you are in.

When the band almost broke up (or did, for all intents and purposes), that was a crossroads going into the 2008 tour. They went from rock bottom to and all time high in energy/excitement....before Roi passed (RIP).

They were "re-born" and got themselves off the mat with a solid record, with the help of Cavallo.

Now that they have their confidence and "sea legs" back...they have the balls to give it a run with Lillywhite again and see if they can recapture greatness.

They are being very honest about w hat they want....Totally agree with this. :thumbsup

[Jamima2fl]

Video interview (sorry if posted previously, I did do a search)

http://culturecatch.com/vidcast/steve-lillywhite

18:40 first mention of Dave Matthews
19:20 discussion on DMB & brief comments on LWS

[snake911]

Just like someone else posted earlier I'm more of a reader than a writer, but here goes on a couple of different subjects in this thread.

Daves musical heros: I dont know them all but I remember reading an interview with Dave going into this years Bridge School about him sitting around at a BBQ at Neil Young's house, having a good time, and having a moment of starstruck "holy #%*& thats Neil Young over there" thoughts. He seems genuinely excited about getting to meet/play with his heros.

BW: Everyone talks about Big Whiskey like Dave just phoned in another mediocre album "just like everyday(and I dont agree 100% that Everyday is terrible, I'm fond of several songs on the album). Big Whiskey was/is great. Yes, there are some radio single friendly songs on there, there are songs just like that on the big 3, but there are also non-standard songs as well. Seven, Squirm, and LITHOG arent exactly standard 4/4 I, IV, V, IV pop fodder. Musically and lyrically Big Whiskey is a really good album. There are some low points, I cant stand the lyrics in the verses on Dive In although I really like lyrics in the chorus and the music throughout. No, it wasnt BTCS 2, but BTCS was slammed when it came out so... I wouldnt want to be in the position of predicting what fans will like. FTWII, SMLAM, etc.. seem to go over really well live and I would imagine the band will keep playing them.

Lillywhites effect on the band: Sure, the producer has an effect, but I feel that the biggest difference between the albums from BTCS, to Everyday, to Stand Up, to BW, is that Everyday and Stand Up are written by Dave and a producer, whereas BTCS and BW have other names in the written by column. Names like Beauford, Lessard, Moore, and Tinsley. They seem to do their best work when its a collaborative band effort. Granted the non-daves dont have many writting credits on the first 2 albums but most interviews talk about how Carter and LeRoi played a big part in shaping the sound of those early songs. My thoughts are this: I hope this album takes awhile to make. The longer they collectively work thier way through the material the better. If they all show up and just lay down parts for songs already set in stone by Dave then I think the music suffers a little. And thats not a knock Dave, great songwriter and I love his solo/dave and tim work. But the band works best as a band. And while we can all speculate on what was going on between them during the everyday til 2007 years, Road to BW had some interesting interviews (poison creeping into our great friendships), it was clearly not a collective band effort at that time. That seems to have changed as they started BW, and then LeRoi died, and we got an album made by a band. so maybe lillywhite will get Dave to focus a little more, and draw out some more thoughful lyrics, but I think musically they are already back on track with what we saw with BW and the other newer songs from that time i.e. write a song, blackjack. I'm excited for a new album, not because lillywhite will save dave from himself, but because the band is putting out great music and we get to have more of that. Hopefully.

[*loverulesme*]

While this is 100% accurate, you are using one circumstance to identify behavior in a totally different one. Yes he is terribly humble in public and a down to earth guy. My cousin lives in his neighborhood and often sees him around town. He doesn't hold himself above others, yada yada yada.

However, who knows what he's like during the creative process. Just b/c people have had down to earth experiences with him in person doesn't mean that he isn't a tough guy to harness creatively.



I agree totally that you can't use his personal friendliness to characterize him as an artist. I see Dave's creative assertiveness and respect its strengths in addition to realizing its weaknesses. Dave asserts himself as the captain of t/his ship and is willing to repel fans and anyone else who doesn't like what he is doing like bug spray to mosquitos in the process (Example, see "I Did It" discussion below).

Other musical talents, like Elvis Presley, haven't done/been able to take charge like that--or even come close to it or, apparently, even see it as a possibility. Very unfortunately, Elvis allowed himself to be guided by his manager Colonel Tom Parker who kept the superstar under his thumb and squelched any possible quality collaborations in music or movies. The colonel didn't want anyone else to influence Elvis or take the star away from him in any way. Elvis ended up missing numerous very high-quality opportunities and making a ton of crappy movies and putting on sloppy concerts instead. He merely lined the pockets of the colonel and his cronies, who surrounded the star constantly like vultures. He was their cash cow, and look at how his story evolved and ended. Elvis wanted to do quality work but, for whatever reason, repeatedly deferred to the colonel and his group. What a terrible shame.

While Dave's sense of self keeps him healthy, I think it also does make him muleheaded at times. I'm sure it must be extremely hard to find some kind of balance, stay grounded, and see clearly when you are in Dave's boots.



Dave has endorsed every album since as their best work ever.

Yes!!! Shocking!!!

I only knew that he did this with BW (so I am taking your word on the rest), and my response then was :eek . . . It was just a W-O-W moment for me when I heard him say this because I felt that Dave's lens when looking at his own work was so distorted.

However, when looking back, I don't know why I was so surprised. I was there when he was opening shows, closing shows, and closing encores with "I Did It." Talk about disappointed disbelief as a fan standing there wondering what the heck was happening. Clearly, he loved that song and thought it was great. Now he says that "I Did It" was the "silliest" song he ever wrote. "Silly" is one word for it. . . .

The point I am making is that I find it ***utterly mysterious*** that the man who wrote "Warehouse," for example, also wrote "I Did It" and seem(ed) unable to see the difference between the two in terms of quality.

Again, just jaw-dropping stuff.



[Dave] is at least modest regarding where he stands in terms of technical musical ability. I'm inclined to think he is fairly conscious of the fact that Carter and Jeff are better on their instruments and would not hesitate to defer to them at times.


I'm really surprised to see that no one has pushed up against this comment since it was posted. Carter and Jeff are technically better? Really??? Is that the consensus?


----------------------------------

This post at times moves away from the original focus of this thread, but some of it contributes directly. I believe that if Dave had come to Lillywhite with "I Did It," Lillywhite would have done all that he could to steer Dave elsewhere, knowing privately that he had indubitably earned his paycheck that day.

[HTils08]

I'm really surprised to see that no one has pushed up against this comment since it was posted. Carter and Jeff are technically better? Really??? Is that the consensus?

its generally accepted by fans (and me) that carter is the musically and technically strongest member of the band. i consider him, not dave, responsible for what people call the "signature sound" evident on the big 3. they were the only band i can think of making rock in the 90s with that complexity of drumming, not just repeating the same thing over and over with a snare hit on every beat. he just plays such syncopated music.

i feel the same way about jeff--specifically about his flecktones work. some of his riffs are so crazy and just work SO well with the music behind them. those type of things, when brought to dmb, give them a **different** sound. (not starting that debate in here)

i think I've said earlier in the thread that dave himself admits his sub-mastery proficiency on the guitar. his guitar playing talent lies in his right hand, not his left, which is often overlooked. his music is just tons of easy open chords, some different voicings up the neck (so many of the songs are just those same dave chords--think recently intro, raven chorus, one sweet world, when the world ends, grey street, tripping billies, say goodbye....theyre all the same chords). I've been playing guitar for a year, completely self taught and I'm VERY limited--even i can play like dave. the hard part is sounding like dave. playing rhythmically enough to be your own percussion section, fitting in perfectly with the wall of sound that comes out of the FOH at a dmb show. not to mention his incredible single note line ability (think tripping billies verse, wwys, stone, those cool jimi thing solos from the late 90s) and rare, barely noticeable mistakes while playing songs on stage that are often very tough to sing and play at the same time (i mean stone is just fucking ridiculous)


so yes--i consider carter and jeff technically "better," but i also consider daves ability underappreciated (in the dmb community but mostly in the "outside world") and misjudged. the guy invented a style of guitar playing, and inspired many famous frontmen and guys/girls alone in their bedroom to mess around with an acoustic

[acousticmike80]

his guitar playing talent lies in his right hand, not his left, which is often overlooked.

I dont completely agree with this. Ive been playing guitar for 16 years and playing DMB songs for probably about 12 of those 16 years (not making it a pissing match, just saying for reference). And, while Dave is not known for solo's or crazy finger-play, he is a very good guitar player. I know what you are saying, I just think he is often written off as just being a frontman/keep the rhythm type guy, with some funky guitar ability.

I agree that his percussive, rhythmic and strong style are what he is known for and his right hand is very strong in his playing. But he has great control of the guitar with both hands. And I am not just talking about Stone, Satellite, Sugar Will, Warehouse or other carpal tunnel inducing songs.

He is not classically trained is often very humble and somewhat self depricating about his ability. Kind of the "aww shucks, lucky to be here" type approach.

But, his style and ability have as much to do with this band as anyone. So, while he doesn't "shred" like Hedges, Stevie Ray, Petrucci or Timmy...he is still a damn solid player, IMO.

He made the acoustic guitar cool again...and think of the number of people like us who love playing his songs. I know what you are saying, but I think Dave is a much stronger player than even he gives himself credit for.

[HTils08]

I dont completely agree with this. Ive been playing guitar for 16 years and playing DMB songs for probably about 12 of those 16 years (not making it a pissing match, just saying for reference). And, while Dave is not known for solo's or crazy finger-play, he is a very good guitar player. I know what you are saying, I just think he is often written off as just being a frontman/keep the rhythm type guy, with some funky guitar ability.

I agree that his percussive, rhythmic and strong style are what he is known for and his right hand is very strong in his playing. But he has great control of the guitar with both hands. And I am not just talking about Stone, Satellite, Sugar Will, Warehouse or other carpal tunnel inducing songs.

He is not classically trained is often very humble and somewhat self depricating about his ability. Kind of the "aww shucks, lucky to be here" type approach.

But, his style and ability have as much to do with this band as anyone. So, while he doesn't "shred" like Hedges, Stevie Ray, Petrucci or Timmy...he is still a damn solid player, IMO.

He made the acoustic guitar cool again...and think of the number of people like us who love playing his songs. I know what you are saying, but I think Dave is a much stronger player than even he gives himself credit for.

COMPLETELY agreed

[acousticmike80]

I am sure if we sat down over a beer, we'd be saying pretty much the same things. And, I know what you mean....

I just wish Dave would be just a bit more assertive with his guitar play. It is good.

[dmbrasil]

The truth, near as I can tell, is that he's actually humble by nature and not overly confident--the jester we see on stage, in interviews, is a nice guy hamming it up for the camera, for the audience, and basically wearing an actor's armor. Sure, sometimes after a particularly grand performance he shows a little excitement and pride, but he still talks wide-eyed about his heroes, about people who he thinks are REAL musicians. Dave, I think, has always been secretly afraid he's just kind of faking it, doodling around with his guitar and having some incredible luck.

I'm probably simplifying too much. But I've never heard one personal story about someone encountering him on the street, where the teller of the story wasn't just immediately impressed by how down-to-earth and kind he is.

Perfect. I couldn't write it better myself.

[Dmbdrummer26]

Im not typically one to get involved in these album speculation threads. However, i do find it interesting that throughout all of these posts, not one person mentions the potential impact of not having Leroi involved in the song writing process. He was always VERY involved when it came to the composition and arrangements of the songs. Remember, all those horn and violin parts that give those first 3 albums that sound that we all know and love were mostly composed by Roi. Jeff and Rashawn composing horn arrangements will differ from what Roi would have done. Im not saying that it will necessarily be bad thing, just something to consider.

[Dmbdrummer26]

Just like someone else posted earlier I'm more of a reader than a writer, but here goes on a couple of different subjects in this thread.

Daves musical heros: I dont know them all but I remember reading an interview with Dave going into this years Bridge School about him sitting around at a BBQ at Neil Young's house, having a good time, and having a moment of starstruck "holy #%*& thats Neil Young over there" thoughts. He seems genuinely excited about getting to meet/play with his heros.

BW: Everyone talks about Big Whiskey like Dave just phoned in another mediocre album "just like everyday(and I dont agree 100% that Everyday is terrible, I'm fond of several songs on the album). Big Whiskey was/is great. Yes, there are some radio single friendly songs on there, there are songs just like that on the big 3, but there are also non-standard songs as well. Seven, Squirm, and LITHOG arent exactly standard 4/4 I, IV, V, IV pop fodder. Musically and lyrically Big Whiskey is a really good album. There are some low points, I cant stand the lyrics in the verses on Dive In although I really like lyrics in the chorus and the music throughout. No, it wasnt BTCS 2, but BTCS was slammed when it came out so... I wouldnt want to be in the position of predicting what fans will like. FTWII, SMLAM, etc.. seem to go over really well live and I would imagine the band will keep playing them.

Lillywhites effect on the band: Sure, the producer has an effect, but I feel that the biggest difference between the albums from BTCS, to Everyday, to Stand Up, to BW, is that Everyday and Stand Up are written by Dave and a producer, whereas BTCS and BW have other names in the written by column. Names like Beauford, Lessard, Moore, and Tinsley. They seem to do their best work when its a collaborative band effort. Granted the non-daves dont have many writting credits on the first 2 albums but most interviews talk about how Carter and LeRoi played a big part in shaping the sound of those early songs. My thoughts are this: I hope this album takes awhile to make. The longer they collectively work thier way through the material the better. If they all show up and just lay down parts for songs already set in stone by Dave then I think the music suffers a little. And thats not a knock Dave, great songwriter and I love his solo/dave and tim work. But the band works best as a band. And while we can all speculate on what was going on between them during the everyday til 2007 years, Road to BW had some interesting interviews (poison creeping into our great friendships), it was clearly not a collective band effort at that time. That seems to have changed as they started BW, and then LeRoi died, and we got an album made by a band. so maybe lillywhite will get Dave to focus a little more, and draw out some more thoughful lyrics, but I think musically they are already back on track with what we saw with BW and the other newer songs from that time i.e. write a song, blackjack. I'm excited for a new album, not because lillywhite will save dave from himself, but because the band is putting out great music and we get to have more of that. Hopefully.

Alright so maybe one person did.... but still.

[pele69]

Each of the Big 3 sound quite different. In fact all the albums sound way different. and someone said that BTCS wasn't loved right away;this is 100% correct. It took a few months for people to really get it and start to love it. Dave has said (road to BW i think) that the first 3 albums are superior and that BW is getting back to that type. I was shocked when i heard this because he is always supporting all the albums equally.
Someone else said that the Band almost broke up in 07 08, it was way earlier than that i really thought in 02 -04 they were going to take a hiatus much like phish did and maybe just not get back together.
As for Lillywhite producing this album and it being a great album; who knows. People are trying to look inside Dave and find his inner emotions, no one can do this with certainty as a fan. I think Lilywhite is a great producer and i hope he pulls the best out of the band again.
On a side note i think BW was what ED was meant to be.