Proof Of The New Theory: Unreleased Songs IS The Album

[vegeevore]

I have come to realize that there are now TONS of indications pointing toward the possibility that the new album is an album of unreleased songs in the DMB catalog. I think it would be interesting if we compiled a list of all of these tips and hints that could support this theory, looking back from this point in time. I definitely think topic of discussion warrants a new thread. Hear me out.

Allow me to start with some of the things that come to my mind (please correct me if any of these are factually incorrect):

* It is widely understood that the band did not enter the studio before January 2012. Based on the recent past, the preferred writing environment for DMB has been as a group in the studio (versus Dave writing entire DMB songs on his own in his house). Thus, it appears to be a safe assumption that very little new material was written before January 2012.

* Rashawn's new video indicates that ALL of the horn parts have been recorded, are finished, and were laid down in just 6 hours. The band entered the studio around 5 weeks ago. If we assume that they didn't write much material before January 2012, that gives them 5 weeks to be very far in the writing and recording process. Compare that to the Big Whiskey sessions, which lasted over multiple years. (video link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3294899781819)

* Stefan and Lillywhite's activity on Twitter seem to indicate that the full band is not grinding it out 24/7 in the studio every day. Stefan seems to be out and about in the Seattle area quite a bit, and Lillywhite posted "no band in today... just me and the new tunes !!" on Jan 28. This jives with what Rashwan indicated in the video regarding the horn parts already being done.

* At this stage in their careers, DMB members are likely not going to want to put out subpar work. More so, Steve Lillywhite is not going to want to put out subpar work. This is not going to be another Everday, where it was recorded in half an hour, or something of the likes. It seems unlikely that they would write and record an entire album's worth of new material in such a short amount of time, given these points. However, recording an entire album's worth of new material in 5 weeks for a quality album sounds about right if you already have the songs written.

* At the end of the 2011 NYC Caravan, Dave commented that there will be new music next year. While Dave's words shouldn't be taken too literally because he is Dave, this does imply that he was expecting to return to play new material in the 2012 album year. While this could mean a lot of things, it does support the theory that an album would be released before the 2012 summer tour. It is impossible to release an album unless it has been recorded in full several months in advance.

* DMB is at a point in time where they have accumulated a great deal of quality unreleased songs. It would make sense at this point in their careers to release an album consisting of such songs. They have a wide selection to choose from. Why not bring back a quality producer and make a good album out of their written work? DMB also knows which of those songs are loved and more well received than others.

* DMB has toyed with and unearthed many of these unreleased songs in 2010 and in 2011. Think about it...Sugar Will, Idea Of You, Joyride, Kill The King, Break Free, Shotgun, Good Good Time, Sweet Up And Down, etc. were all played in 2010 and 2011. Even Granny received a ton of plays in 2012, relatively speaking.

Anybody else got anything to add to that to fuel this theory?

[brobb]

If the new album is merely a collection of old songs, I will be thoroughly disappointed.

[mfietek]

I think all of your facts are for the most part are correct. However, I think there has been work done on this album at some level before they got together in January which makes me think this will be almost all new music with the chance of a few road tested songs added. There was just way too much downtime last year for a group of creative people that have spent the last 20 years on the road to just sit around and not do something. We know from SL's tweets that he has been writting music from the time the last caravan ended. Wouldn't surprise me if Dave hasn't been writting music also. Of course just my opinion and based of zero facts.

[vegeevore]

I think all of your facts are for the most part are correct. However, I think there has been work done on this album at some level before they got together in January which makes me think this will be almost all new music with the chance of a few road tested songs added. There was just way too much downtime last year for a group of creative people that have spent the last 20 years on the road to just sit around and not do something. We know from SL's tweets that he has been writting music from the time the last caravan ended. Wouldn't surprise me if Dave hasn't been writting music also. Of course just my opinion and based of zero facts.

It seems to me that based on the recent past, they primarily write songs in a studio setting together as a band, and when this happens, ants are well aware of it. Yes, Blackjack showed up randomly as a new song without a studio session being involved, but it's not too difficult to work on one new song across a tour.

[Foreverford05]

My own personal opinion is they had a rough draft of the songs going on the album and we just didn't know about it. By the time dave told everyone new music is coming out at the caravan, im sure many of the songs had at least a shell to work with. I don't think they went in the studio Jan 1st with blackjack and came out with a full album of new tunes.

[tallfire8]

I thought that Blackjack originated in studio sessions from 2007...not 100% sure on that but I remember reading it somewhere.


EDIT: http://www.antsmarching.org/tour/ViewShow.php?ShowID=4094 It was this studio sessions.

[v0taw]

If the new album is merely a collection of old songs, I will be thoroughly disappointed.

Having one tour of previously forgotten unreleased material played regularly would be pretty stellar IMO.

Let them put out new songs next year.

[pele69]

Anyone else remember DMB not touring last summer? News songs could have easily been written then.

[sheldonlevene]

I don't think anything will be definitive "proof" until we get the tracklisting.

[dmbfan4ever]

None of this was convincing.

[richie2017]

I said the same thing when I saw songs like Break Free and Kill the King make comebacks.

[dmbboiler01]

He also tweeted this back in October 2008. "I think it's cool to have tunes that are only live. Maybe we could make an album called live not live. Not today though. I'm busy." I know it's a stretch, but it gives hope to the idea that he would consider doing what the OP is suggesting.

[vegeevore]

He also tweeted this back in October 2008. "I think it's cool to have tunes that are only live. Maybe we could make an album called live not live. Not today though. I'm busy." I know it's a stretch, but it gives hope to the idea that he would consider doing what the OP is suggesting.

good find. i forgot about that.

None of this was convincing.

it's not convincing, but it does start to add up to start make sense if u look at it this way. do u really think that at this point in the existence of DMB, they are going to put out a full album of new songs after only 5 weeks of studio work?

I thought that Blackjack originated in studio sessions from 2007...not 100% sure on that but I remember reading it somewhere.


EDIT: http://www.antsmarching.org/tour/ViewShow.php?ShowID=4094 It was this studio sessions.

Yeah, that's right. Good find. That means they haven't written a song and toured with it in quite a while (minus Sweet).

Anyone else remember DMB not touring last summer? News songs could have easily been written then.

The problem with this statement is that like I said, based on recent past, DMB writes songs collectively in a studio, and when that happens, people have known about it in almost every instance. When is the last time that they went into studio and we didn't know about it instantly?

[TMoore4075]

The problem with this statement is that like I said, based on recent past, DMB writes songs collectively in a studio, and when that happens, people have known about it in almost every instance. When is the last time that they went into studio and we didn't know about it instantly?
I don't remember hearing about them in the studio in late 2007. I didn't hear anything until early 08 when they were in Seattle. If it was known and I just didn't hear about them being in Haunted Hallow in fall of 07 then please correct me.

[NeatFreakGeek]

at this point in their careers, i don't see DMB bringing in Lillywhite just to produce a bunch of old songs (yes, I know that's what the first two albums were). There's enough other producer-types in DMB's orbit who can produce songs that have been tried and tested.

i still want to know what happened to the studio Sugar Will that was recorded in Vegas, shown on the Big Whisky documentary.

[s0628711]

While I would prefer new tunes, I'd take an album of rehashed songs because we know their quality and would cause for better setlists IMO. With the new album, we just don't know what we might be getting.

[clive bixby]

None of this was convincing.

agreed. i think this will be an all new album with 2 old songs at the very most

[character111]

I'm not familiar with a lot of these unreleased songs. I have heard Kill the King and I really like that one. I've always skipped Blackjack and those type of songs because of the bad reviews they've earned on this forum. So if those kind of songs are on the album... I don't know. Sounds like it would be an album full of songs that weren't good enough to be on Big Whiskey. An album of Big Whiskey reject songs. Maybe not a Big 3 level album, but definitely worthy of Bottom 3 status.

[Mateo2k]

I've always skipped Blackjack and those type of songs because of the bad reviews they've earned on this forum.

If you're into a band enough to be an active member on a forum dedicated to them, you should probably take the time to listen to songs and form your own opinion on them.

[bubba40]

With the apparent speed with which they're working, I've got to think that at least parts of stuff we've heard before will be on the record.

[Drumlax15]

If you're into a band enough to be an active member on a forum dedicated to them, you should probably take the time to listen to songs and form your own opinion on them.

Yeah....I don't understand why you wouldn't...that may be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Why would you go by other peoples opinions. Form your own. You might love the songs.

[Drumlax15]

With the apparent speed with which they're working, I've got to think that at least parts of stuff we've heard before will be on the record.

I hope that Hurricane song from D&T Vegas 09 shows up somehow....sounded beautiful

[DMBzilla]

It's important to remember that Dave had a ton of time off in 2011. He commented at Randall's that they hoped to be back with new songs in 2012, so it's certainly reasonable to assume that a good portion of that time involved writing music. Once Lillywhite got back into the picture (probably sometime around November if the D&T show in NYC was a sort of jumping off point for their reunion), I'm sure Dave went into writing mode so he could enter the studio in January with some new ideas ready to go.

I would be very surprised if there aren't any previously road tested songs on the new record (I'd put Shotgun and Blackjack as front runners), but I'm sure we'll get a handful of new tunes as well. That said, if the album looked something like this:

1. Intro
2. Crazy Easy
3. New Song
4. New Song
5. Sweet Up & Down
6. Sugar Will
7. New Song
8. New Song
9. Shotgun
10. New Song
11. New Song
12. Blackjack

...I'd have no problem with it.

[sheldonlevene]

It's important to remember that Dave had a ton of time off in 2011. He commented at Randall's that they hoped to be back with new songs in 2012, so it's certainly reasonable to assume that a good portion of that time involved writing music. Once Lillywhite got back into the picture (probably sometime around November if the D&T show in NYC was a sort of jumping off point for their reunion), I'm sure Dave went into writing mode so he could enter the studio in January with some new ideas ready to go.

I would be very surprised if there aren't any previously road tested songs on the new record (I'd put Shotgun and Blackjack as front runners), but I'm sure we'll get a handful of new tunes as well. That said, if the album looked something like this:

1. Intro
2. Crazy Easy
3. New Song
4. New Song
5. Sweet Up & Down
6. Sugar Will
7. New Song
8. New Song
9. Shotgun
10. New Song
11. New Song
12. Blackjack

...I'd have no problem with it.

I would. Track 12. :lol

But I get your point.

[Drumlax15]

It's important to remember that Dave had a ton of time off in 2011. He commented at Randall's that they hoped to be back with new songs in 2012, so it's certainly reasonable to assume that a good portion of that time involved writing music. Once Lillywhite got back into the picture (probably sometime around November if the D&T show in NYC was a sort of jumping off point for their reunion), I'm sure Dave went into writing mode so he could enter the studio in January with some new ideas ready to go.

I would be very surprised if there aren't any previously road tested songs on the new record (I'd put Shotgun and Blackjack as front runners), but I'm sure we'll get a handful of new tunes as well. That said, if the album looked something like this:

1. Intro
2. Crazy Easy
3. New Song
4. New Song
5. Sweet Up & Down
6. Sugar Will
7. New Song
8. New Song
9. Shotgun
10. New Song
11. New Song
12. Blackjack

...I'd have no problem with it.

Crazy Easy would be so bad ass with a little intro....would be a great way to start an album.

[s0628711]

Me either. I'd sign for that. Stellar selection of old songs and enough new ones mixed in there.

[JohnK86]

I´m going to guess that it is all new music. I don´t know why they would want to record old shit, with the exception of Black Jack.

[evino526]

Don't they usually do a bonus cd with pre-order? The bonus cd could have some unreleased songs on it as well.

[character111]

If you're into a band enough to be an active member on a forum dedicated to them, you should probably take the time to listen to songs and form your own opinion on them.

Yeah....I don't understand why you wouldn't...that may be one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. Why would you go by other peoples opinions. Form your own. You might love the songs.

I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those songs are mostly only available on Live Trax albums. I don't buy every Live Trax album. I check out the reviews from other fans who are more familiar with the band's good music before investing in a CD. Most of the band's new material and recently-recorded Live Trax have been considered hit or miss, so I've passed on them. I use the search function and check out the polls and reviews that you all do on here. There are too many good shows available to spend a ton of money on mediocre ones, some people have to decide and can't buy everything the band releases.

[Drumlax15]

I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those songs are mostly only available on Live Trax albums. I don't buy every Live Trax album. I check out the reviews from other fans who are more familiar with the band's good music before investing in a CD. Most of the band's new material and recently-recorded Live Trax have been considered hit or miss, so I've passed on them. I use the search function and check out the polls and reviews that you all do on here. There are too many good shows available to spend a ton of money on mediocre ones, some people have to decide and can't buy everything the band releases.


dmbstream.com

[ninjatim33]

I think it will either be an album of unreleased songs, which I don't think it will be, or all new songs with maaaaybe 2 previously unreleased ones.

[character111]

dmbstream.com

Right, but still - what's the point of listening to mediocre shows instead of good ones? Ants Marching street cred or something? I'm just interested in listening to the good shows out there, not getting in a pissing match to see who has listened to the most shows or suffered through the subpar ones.

[DMBzilla]

I don't know what's so hard to understand. Those songs are mostly only available on Live Trax albums. I don't buy every Live Trax album. I check out the reviews from other fans who are more familiar with the band's good music before investing in a CD. Most of the band's new material and recently-recorded Live Trax have been considered hit or miss, so I've passed on them. I use the search function and check out the polls and reviews that you all do on here. There are too many good shows available to spend a ton of money on mediocre ones, some people have to decide and can't buy everything the band releases.

dreamingtree.org

[character111]

dreamingtree.org

Okay, I'm convinced now. Instead of listening to good shows, particularly from the band's peak era, I'm going to download the shows everyone complains about so I too can complain about how they're not as good as they used to be. Instead of listening to shows where they are that good. :thumbsup

Like I said, there are too many good shows available to be chasing down subpar performances just for the sake of saying I heard them.

[Drumlax15]

Right, but still - what's the point of listening to mediocre shows instead of good ones? Ants Marching street cred or something? I'm just interested in listening to the good shows out there, not getting in a pissing match to see who has listened to the most shows or suffered through the subpar ones.

To hear new songs that haven't been released yet and also hear some great shows.....Ants Marching street cred? calm down over there...

[bdj1311]

I'm just gonna go a head and get this out of the way now, Double album, ftw! 1 old stuff, 1 new stuff. I doubt it will happen, and said it during the lead up to BW, which obviously didn't happen, but since this is all just conjecture I'm throwing it out there.

[DMBzilla]

Okay, I'm convinced now. Instead of listening to good shows, particularly from the band's peak era, I'm going to download the shows everyone complains about so I too can complain about how they're not as good as they used to be. Instead of listening to shows where they are that good. :thumbsup

Like I said, there are too many good shows available to be chasing down subpar performances just for the sake of saying I heard them.

http://www.dreamingtree.org/details.php?id=8416

Incredible show. Includes Blackjack.

[ComeNDnceWithMe]

OP made A LOT of assumptions. What a stretch ...

[tolley]

Okay, I'm convinced now. Instead of listening to good shows, particularly from the band's peak era, I'm going to download the shows everyone complains about so I too can complain about how they're not as good as they used to be. Instead of listening to shows where they are that good. :thumbsup

Like I said, there are too many good shows available to be chasing down subpar performances just for the sake of saying I heard them.

I don't know why you think you have to download a whole show to hear one song? I always check YouTube a day or two after the show and can pick or choose what I want to listen to. I know the quality of the videos usually isn't great (copperpot excluded), but you can get a good enough feel for a song.
Edit: BTW, Blackjack sucks!

[Jud78]

at this point in their careers, i don't see DMB bringing in Lillywhite just to produce a bunch of old songs (yes, I know that's what the first two albums were). There's enough other producer-types in DMB's orbit who can produce songs that have been tried and tested.

i still want to know what happened to the studio Sugar Will that was recorded in Vegas, shown on the Big Whisky documentary.


I agree, I don't see Lillywhite coming back after a much publicized end to tLWS and then an even more publicized leak of the work that they had done, to simply record old tunes that the band has played for years.

On the other hand, Dave did mention in an interview (i believe in Italy?) that Coran Capshaw comes to him from time to time and says "hey what about these songs" in reference to songs they had worked on (and in some cases played live) but never made it to an album.

So i think the possibility remains that you could see an old tune or 2...but more than likely, after a year off, the band is more focused on new music, and for the first time with a truely new lineup (i.e. Jeff there to actually help write vs. fill in some parts to finish off BW).

[AntzDigger7]

There is one LEGITIMATELY strong counter-argument against those who think that it is an album full of new songs: It is highly unlikely that DMB wrote and recorded a full album of new material in 5 weeks. While it could happen, it is very unlikely at this point in time. The fact that Rashawn said that the horn sections are finished and recorded right now is a major red flag.

DMB likes writing songs together these days. Can you honestly tell me that you see Dave writing multiple DMB songs alone in his house, and then telling the rest of the guys that this is the song and this is your part? The band likes to write together, and they like to write in studio. Their songs have too many parts for it to just be Dave alone unless he's writing simple solo songs like Sweet, Sister, etc.

[luccic12]

So many good shows have Crazy Easy, Good Good Time, Joyride etc.

[dontdrink36]

I think the album will end up being a mix of both 4-6 old tunes reworked and 4-6 new ones. I just hope the new ones are good and that Crazy Easy is one of the old ones!

[Sniper15]

I think it will be all new songs.

[sheldonlevene]

No one is asserting that Dave wrote everyone's parts at home. But the way they used to write (from my limited knowledge) could still hold. He writes guitar and lyrics and presents ideas to the band to either scrap or work on.

I still don't think this is going to be essentially a B-sides album.

[Utopia]

http://www.dreamingtree.org/details.php?id=8416

Incredible show. Includes Blackjack.

What a show. That's probably my favorite experience as a DMB fan, and I've seen some particularly amazing things.

[jaymas9]

It's important to remember that Dave had a ton of time off in 2011. He commented at Randall's that they hoped to be back with new songs in 2012, so it's certainly reasonable to assume that a good portion of that time involved writing music. Once Lillywhite got back into the picture (probably sometime around November if the D&T show in NYC was a sort of jumping off point for their reunion), I'm sure Dave went into writing mode so he could enter the studio in January with some new ideas ready to go.

I would be very surprised if there aren't any previously road tested songs on the new record (I'd put Shotgun and Blackjack as front runners), but I'm sure we'll get a handful of new tunes as well. That said, if the album looked something like this:

1. Intro
2. Crazy Easy
3. New Song
4. New Song
5. Sweet Up & Down
6. Sugar Will
7. New Song
8. New Song
9. Shotgun
10. New Song
11. New Song
12. Blackjack

...I'd have no problem with it.Even though I'm usually a fan of all new music, especially with a producer like Lillywhite...I would sign on for this album, because I like and/or see the potential with all those already figured out tracks, and I have great faith in new material with Steve Lillywhite at the helm.

[ajk316]

There are some songs I would prefer to just keep live... Some of these songs are special because you can only hear them live and its special to hear that song live and to know it is not played every show to promote the new album. Especially when they start playing a song you never thought you would ever hear.

[Luv4Roi]

None of this was convincing.

This. :lol

[AntzDigger7]

No one is asserting that Dave wrote everyone's parts at home. But the way they used to write (from my limited knowledge) could still hold. He writes guitar and lyrics and presents ideas to the band to either scrap or work on.

I still don't think this is going to be essentially a B-sides album.

Ok, so let's say that Dave hypothetically wrote songs on his own last year and then the band gets together in early January. You really think that they would have enough time to feel 110% confident that they played, experimented with, honed, and perfected all of those songs, and recorded final tracking of the horns, in just 5 weeks? It appears that Stefan hasn't even been in the studio every day, based on his Twitter.

This is a band that took 3+ (?) studio sessions to write and record the final material for their last album. This is a band that is well aware that the songs they write will grow and adapt over time. It seems naive to make the assumption that they would be content with an album of new songs at this point in the game, and be ready to almost call it final. ESPECIALLY with Lillywhite's history of "pushing" the band to achieve greatness and not accept mediocre results.

Let's look at the flip side, too. Let's say it is all new songs. Are you assured that they are quality songs, knowing that the horn lines were recorded in 6 hours? Listen to BTCS and Lillywhite Sessions and UTTAD again. While yes, you could physically record those parts in 6 hours time, they are perfected, and perfection requires more than 6 hours. ESPECIALLY if you are working with songs that you haven't been familiar with for years.

[MinaretMarching]

I have come to realize that there are now TONS of indications pointing toward the possibility that the new album is an album of unreleased songs in the DMB catalog. I think it would be interesting if we compiled a list of all of these tips and hints that could support this theory, looking back from this point in time. I definitely think topic of discussion warrants a new thread. Hear me out.

Allow me to start with some of the things that come to my mind (please correct me if any of these are factually incorrect):

* It is widely understood that the band did not enter the studio before January 2012. Based on the recent past, the preferred writing environment for DMB has been as a group in the studio (versus Dave writing entire DMB songs on his own in his house). Thus, it appears to be a safe assumption that very little new material was written before January 2012.

* Rashawn's new video indicates that ALL of the horn parts have been recorded, are finished, and were laid down in just 6 hours. The band entered the studio around 5 weeks ago. If we assume that they didn't write much material before January 2012, that gives them 5 weeks to be very far in the writing and recording process. Compare that to the Big Whiskey sessions, which lasted over multiple years. (video link: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=3294899781819)

* Stefan and Lillywhite's activity on Twitter seem to indicate that the full band is not grinding it out 24/7 in the studio every day. Stefan seems to be out and about in the Seattle area quite a bit, and Lillywhite posted "no band in today... just me and the new tunes !!" on Jan 28. This jives with what Rashwan indicated in the video regarding the horn parts already being done.

* At this stage in their careers, DMB members are likely not going to want to put out subpar work. More so, Steve Lillywhite is not going to want to put out subpar work. This is not going to be another Everday, where it was recorded in half an hour, or something of the likes. It seems unlikely that they would write and record an entire album's worth of new material in such a short amount of time, given these points. However, recording an entire album's worth of new material in 5 weeks for a quality album sounds about right if you already have the songs written.

* At the end of the 2011 NYC Caravan, Dave commented that there will be new music next year. While Dave's words shouldn't be taken too literally because he is Dave, this does imply that he was expecting to return to play new material in the 2012 album year. While this could mean a lot of things, it does support the theory that an album would be released before the 2012 summer tour. It is impossible to release an album unless it has been recorded in full several months in advance.

* DMB is at a point in time where they have accumulated a great deal of quality unreleased songs. It would make sense at this point in their careers to release an album consisting of such songs. They have a wide selection to choose from. Why not bring back a quality producer and make a good album out of their written work? DMB also knows which of those songs are loved and more well received than others.

* DMB has toyed with and unearthed many of these unreleased songs in 2010 and in 2011. Think about it...Sugar Will, Idea Of You, Joyride, Kill The King, Break Free, Shotgun, Good Good Time, Sweet Up And Down, etc. were all played in 2010 and 2011. Even Granny received a ton of plays in 2012, relatively speaking.

Anybody else got anything to add to that to fuel this theory?

I think you make a lot of valid points. While there may be some "old" songs on the new album, just going by "the facts" and what Dave and Steve said...

Lillywhite posted "no band in today... just me and the new tunes !!" on Jan 28.

and

* At the end of the 2011 NYC Caravan, Dave commented that there will be new music next year.

Instead of going by what I think or what my opinion is....By going off of those two very specific quotes, "new" is the operable word. Dave wrote 'Sweet' over the break and while that song gets mixed reviews, it shows he's writing.

[sheldonlevene]

I think you make a lot of valid points. While there may be some "old" songs on the new album, just going by "the facts" and what Dave and Steve said...

Lillywhite posted "no band in today... just me and the new tunes !!" on Jan 28.

and

* At the end of the 2011 NYC Caravan, Dave commented that there will be new music next year.

Instead of going by what I think or what my opinion is....By going off of those two very specific quotes, "new" is the operable word. Dave wrote 'Sweet' over the break and while that song gets mixed reviews, it shows he's writing.

Fonz also tweeted something cryptic about new songs just yesterday...maybe the day before.

[MinaretMarching]

Fonz also tweeted something cryptic about new songs just yesterday...maybe the day before.

Oh yeah, that's right. You prompted me to look for it...here it is...

SLessard (http://twitter.com/#%21/SLessard) Stefan Lessard



Imagine yourself dancing to something new and something beautiful

7 Feb (http://twitter.com/#%21/SLessard/status/166783144941469696)

So yeah, going by those 3 things, 'new' seems to be where the album is headed. And I'm not partisan either, I will be happy with the finished product, whether it be old or new songs. Hit me with a combo.

[rantingthespian]

To me, this sounds like Busted Stuff: Mark II. Only this time Lillywhite is producing it, not Harris. Busted Stuff was completed fairly quickly because they had already worked out most of the tunes in the studio and on the road.

I would suspect that if this album is just unreleased songs finally finished, and it goes well with Lillywhite, then a new album with new material with Lillywhite is very plausible.

But, Busted Stuff did have 2 new songs on it. So, it could work out like that. We could have an album of mostly unreleased songs with a couple new tunes thrown in.

If it does turns out to be Busted Stuff: Mark II with Lillywhite, I still will be giddy as school girl who drank a 2 liter of Mountain Dew.

[AntzDigger7]

To me, this sounds like Busted Stuff: Mark II. Only this time Lillywhite is producing it, not Harris. Busted Stuff was completed fairly quickly because they had already worked out most of the tunes in the studio and on the road.

I would suspect that if this album is just unreleased songs finally finished, and it goes well with Lillywhite, then a new album with new material with Lillywhite is very plausible.

But, Busted Stuff did have 2 new songs on it. So, it could work out like that. We could have an album of mostly unreleased songs with a couple new tunes thrown in.

If it does turns out to be Busted Stuff: Mark II with Lillywhite, I still will be giddy as school girl who drank a 2 liter of Mountain Dew.

This is probably the best assumption right now.

[MinaretMarching]

This is probably the best assumption right now.

Fuck, really? I kinda want new material. I DO want new material.

[ninjatim33]

There is one LEGITIMATELY strong counter-argument against those who think that it is an album full of new songs: It is highly unlikely that DMB wrote and recorded a full album of new material in 5 weeks. While it could happen, it is very unlikely at this point in time. The fact that Rashawn said that the horn sections are finished and recorded right now is a major red flag.

DMB likes writing songs together these days. Can you honestly tell me that you see Dave writing multiple DMB songs alone in his house, and then telling the rest of the guys that this is the song and this is your part? The band likes to write together, and they like to write in studio. Their songs have too many parts for it to just be Dave alone unless he's writing simple solo songs like Sweet, Sister, etc.

Because they didn't have annnny free time in 2011 to write any new music....

[pmbdmb]

Oh yeah, that's right. You prompted me to look for it...here it is...

SLessard (http://twitter.com/#%21/SLessard) Stefan Lessard



Imagine yourself dancing to something new and something beautiful

7 Feb (http://twitter.com/#%21/SLessard/status/166783144941469696)


How do you know that has any relevance to what they're doing in the studio? People really jump to conclusions around here.

[spoot388]

How do you know that has any relevance to what they're doing in the studio? People really jump to conclusions around here.


prove that it doesn't.



it works both ways.

[MinaretMarching]

prove that it doesn't.



it works both ways.

That it does. Hopefully, in favor of our cause.

[AntzDigger7]

Because they didn't have annnny free time in 2011 to write any new music....

Factually speaking, when is the last time the band wrote a significant chunk of new material and ants didn't know about it when it was happening? I'm still confused on this...I know it's been a while.

[rantingthespian]

Fuck, really? I kinda want new material. I DO want new material.

If you read what I posted, I pointed out that Busted Stuff had 2 new tunes on it. So, if it's like that, this album could have some new songs as well as old ones on it.


I think people are being a little greedy here as well. We should just be thankful that they are in the studio, and that they are with Lillywhite.

Also, from Lillywhite's latest 2 twitter pics (A shot of the Space Needle and a guitar pick with a Firedancer on it), that should put to rest any doubt against that they are working in the studio together.

[AntzDigger7]

If you read what I posted, I pointed out that Busted Stuff had 2 new tunes on it. So, if it's like that, this album could have some new songs as well as old ones on it.


I think people are being a little greedy here as well. We should just be thankful that they are in the studio, and that they are with Lillywhite.

Also, from Lillywhite's latest 2 twitter pics (A shot of the Space Needle and a guitar pick with a Firedancer on it), that should put to rest any doubt against that they are working in the studio together.

If the album is released in 2012, then I am down for it to be existing songs. That is rapidly fast turnover for DMB. Here's the pros/cons:

Album of existing songs:
* We could get a new album by summer 2012! +
* It's songs we already know, so not many surprises -
* It could be a really quality album +
* We could finally get a tour with lots of rarish unreleased songs we like in the rotation +

Album of new songs:
* If it's good, it probably wouldn't be ready until next year at the earliest. -
* It could be even another year, knowing this band. -
* It's new material +
* The quality of the new songs is more of a question mark.

[dmb417]

EDIT: Sorry for the post, wrong click haha

[SpotlightEyes]

Right now my feelings are this:

1. I find it very unlikely that this album will consist exclusively of brand new material.

2. I find it very unlikely that this album will consist exclusively of new recordings of the unreleased stuff from years past.

Its going to be a mixture of the two. Maybe 4 or 5 brand new songs, and 5 or 6 unreleased songs, all blended together into one great album.

[dmb417]

And what if Rashawn was just full of shit? ;)

[evdawg8]

With the amount of press work, promotional material, tv deals for advertising, sports deals and such I doubt this album will be out until the fall. Or later i'd love a October release then a fall tour.

[rantingthespian]

With the amount of press work, promotional material, tv deals for advertising, sports deals and such I doubt this album will be out until the fall. Or later i'd love a October release then a fall tour.

They recorded and released Busted Stuff without taking too much time.

[Dankguitar]

Am I the only one who thinks that Dave worked his ass off over the past year or so writing new tunes? Am I just being overly hopeful?

[sheldonlevene]

Am I the only one who thinks that Dave worked his ass off over the past year or so writing new tunes? Am I just being overly hopeful?

Impossible. This is a B-sides/unreleased album. Why can't you understand?

[AntzDigger7]

Am I the only one who thinks that Dave worked his ass off over the past year or so writing new tunes? Am I just being overly hopeful?

I think you are being overly hopeful, but it is true that nobody really knows. Dave has tended toward the lazy side lately, so if one were to make a guess, it would make sense to guess that he was not working his ass off writing new songs.

Right now my feelings are this:

1. I find it very unlikely that this album will consist exclusively of brand new material.

2. I find it very unlikely that this album will consist exclusively of new recordings of the unreleased stuff from years past.

Its going to be a mixture of the two. Maybe 4 or 5 brand new songs, and 5 or 6 unreleased songs, all blended together into one great album.

:thumbsup

[evino526]

Impossible. This is a B-sides/unreleased album. Why can't you understand?

You can't say that with absolute certainty. It's all theories at this point...nothing is 'impossible'.

[Lynchmobb41]

I'm think it's going to be songs that maybe they started in the studio, but never were finished. Revisited! Songs you may not have ever heard.

SBC Soundcheck
Gas Into Fire
African Funk song in the Stand Up Videos

I remember seeing an interview where Dave said that they soundchecked a song that no one ever heard and they nailed it. Then he goes on to say that it was a wonderful song but no one may ever hear it.

The point is they have so much material and not to mention probably a lot of takes of Roi. I don't think they would make an album without his recordings, leading me to believe that this will include unreleased songs. Just my 2 cents.

[sheldonlevene]

You can't say that with absolute certainty. It's all theories at this point...nothing is 'impossible'.

I agree. I was being facetious.

[Dankguitar]

Let's also consider that when you have a year off with only the few shows that the band actually played, you don't have to "work your ass off" to write an album's worth of songs in a year. That is a shit ton of free time. I know he was using the time to be with his family but I just have a feeling he did a lot of writing. Dave hasn't had that kind of free time to write music on his own maybe ever in the band's 20 years

[sheldonlevene]

Let's also consider that when you have a year off with only the few shows that the band actually played, you don't have to "work your ass off" to write an album's worth of songs in a year. That is a shit ton of free time. I know he was using the time to be with his family but I just have a feeling he did a lot of writing. Dave hasn't had that kind of free time to write music on his own maybe ever in the band's 20 years

:thumbsup

Dave "worked" 28 days last year. Meaning shows. Counting Dave Solo, D&T, and the band.

[ramiro24]

didnt rashawn say when they were gonna go into the studio they had stuff worked up a little bit as far as ideas during the gorge caravan? ...so they have to have some new stuff...

[chyeachyea552]

The point is they have so much material and not to mention probably a lot of takes of Roi. I don't think they would make an album without his recordings, leading me to believe that this will include unreleased songs. Just my 2 cents.


I don't believe this. Big Whiskey was his send off. They used his parts, the Grux intro and #35 outro. Starting and ending with roi. They're moving on and leaving roi in his glory. Why take cuts of roi that never made an album and try to work songs out of them? This band is extremely talented and creative. They're going to move on and do what sounds good not try to form around Leroi for the rest of their careers.

BWATGK was a good way to put roi to rest. I don't think they're going to live their career as a band in the past. They're going to remember roi for who he was and what he did, not pretend he's still there.

[Lynchmobb41]

I don't believe this. Big Whiskey was his send off. They used his parts, the Grux intro and #35 outro. Starting and ending with roi. They're moving on and leaving roi in his glory. Why take cuts of roi that never made an album and try to work songs out of them? This band is extremely talented and creative. They're going to move on and do what sounds good not try to form around Leroi for the rest of their careers.

BWATGK was a good way to put roi to rest. I don't think they're going to live their career as a band in the past. They're going to remember roi for who he was and what he did, not pretend he's still there.

Good point, but like I said...Just my 2 cents;)

[jaymas9]

Anyone who actually thinks they brought Lillywhite in for a B-sides album is out of their fucking mind. Maybe there's a few songs at most that we've heard before and were finished/tinkered with. But there is no doubt the majority of this album is going to be new material. Anyone who thinks because Rashawn tracked in 6 hours means it's all old stuff, just doesn't get the recording process very well. The guy is an accomplished musician, and session playing is probably second nature to him. If they had a creative burst and wrote/brainstormed for 3 weeks, and then he layed down the parts he wrote in quality takes, then yes, it absolutely could take 6 hours.

[Norman Smiley]

My first thought was that it would be old stuff as soon as I saw that Rashawn video.

However, while a large amount of BTCS was written in studio, most of Crash and UTTAD were written and then Stevie came in and completed them.

Crash only took 3 months in studio and that was over Christmas.

[Norman Smiley]

How long did the Lillywhite sessions take to write?

Pretty sure that Rashawn being done does not mean the album is anywhere near final production.

[chyeachyea552]

Good point, but like I said...Just my 2 cents;)


Oh I know, me too. I've just thought about the idea a lot and you brought up a point so your post was a good way for me to put my .02 in too. :thumbsup

[Sniper15]

Let's also consider that when you have a year off with only the few shows that the band actually played, you don't have to "work your ass off" to write an album's worth of songs in a year. That is a shit ton of free time. I know he was using the time to be with his family but I just have a feeling he did a lot of writing. Dave hasn't had that kind of free time to write music on his own maybe ever in the band's 20 years

This dude is the smartest person in this thread. I think Dave brought a bunch of completed songs into the studio which is why it isn't taking long to record this album. The band probably didn't have to do a ton of jamming and songwriting like they did for Big Whiskey which accelerates the recording process. The people who think this is "definitely a b-sides album" are fucking morons. If the band wanted to release a b-sides album they would just release all of the b-side tracks they recorded in the past and never released. Why the fuck would they record a new studio version of SUAD when they already have a shitload of takes they recorded in the past that they could release? Why come together to record old songs that you already have multiple recordings of? Bands don't spend months in a studio recording b-side albums. This is going to be an album of new material.

[rickyh24]

I dread blackjack being on this album.

[UCFish]

I dread blackjack being on this album.

would u get mad? :D

[smudge1]

I dread blackjack being on this album.It will be on the album and constant rotation at all shows.

[Dankguitar]

This dude is the smartest person in this thread. I think Dave brought a bunch of completed songs into the studio which is why it isn't taking long to record this album. The band probably didn't have to do a ton of jamming and songwriting like they did for Big Whiskey which accelerates the recording process. The people who think this is "definitely a b-sides album" are fucking morons. If the band wanted to release a b-sides album they would just release all of the b-side tracks they recorded in the past and never released. Why the fuck would they record a new studio version of SUAD when they already have a shitload of takes they recorded in the past that they could release? Why come together to record old songs that you already have multiple recordings of? Bands don't spend months in a studio recording b-side albums. This is going to be an album of new material.

Thank you for agreeing. It's pretty clear that this band has never been great with writing material while on the road. With such an exhaustive schedule and spending so much time on tour buses it's gotta be a terrible environment for creating music. Dave has had peace and quiet and I truly am expecting some of his best work in a long time because FOR ONCE, he gave himself a break and the alone time to do so. Let me also add that we all realize that the band hates the studio. I am pretty sure that's nearly a fact. Think about how much pressure there is when you are in a room full of people and have to write songs from scratch? I realize a lot of bands do this but I just think it sounds like a really forced process. I really think think it forces songs to get completed way too quickly. Just because most of the members of DMB are incredibly talented musically does not mean that putting all of their minds together will make a better product. Let Dave do the writing and let the rest of the band come in and add their fills and tweaks to the songs that take them to a whole new level. Let's hope that that's what they've done this time

[rickyh24]

It will be on the album and constant rotation at all shows.

You are 50 percent right already.

[AntzDigger7]

This dude is the smartest person in this thread. I think Dave brought a bunch of completed songs into the studio which is why it isn't taking long to record this album. The band probably didn't have to do a ton of jamming and songwriting like they did for Big Whiskey which accelerates the recording process. The people who think this is "definitely a b-sides album" are fucking morons. If the band wanted to release a b-sides album they would just release all of the b-side tracks they recorded in the past and never released. Why the fuck would they record a new studio version of SUAD when they already have a shitload of takes they recorded in the past that they could release? Why come together to record old songs that you already have multiple recordings of? Bands don't spend months in a studio recording b-side albums. This is going to be an album of new material.

to the first bolded: way to act like a jackass yourself

to the second bolded: it has been done in this band's past multiple times.

to the third bolded: exactly, but they might spend 6 weeks in a studio recording b-side albums.

a wise man once said you were a jackass.

[jasonfilatov]

that would definitely explain why dave announced they would play new music in 2012. and you need to look up the definition of "proof"

[CrashTheStone41]

Don't you think the "room" they had on the 2010 could have replaced the studio setting... which means they were writing music while on tour for the last few years.

[jaymas9]

to the first bolded: way to act like a jackass yourself

to the second bolded: it has been done in this band's past multiple times.

to the third bolded: exactly, but they might spend 6 weeks in a studio recording b-side albums.

a wise man once said you were a jackass.This confuses me. What song that was intended for another studio album but wasn't put on it...was then subsequently re-recorded and put on a different studio album? If they were recording a b-side album of finished/nearly finished songs...I hope to god it wouldn't take 6 weeks.

[J0siah716]

I think youre straight up wrong. Dave said at one of the Caravans that he hopes to have NEW music next year. Sure maybe there will be one or two oldies but not an ENTIRE album

[yanks7533]

I mean big whiskey had no old ones and there were rumblings about there being sugar will etc on the album (which they did record but never made the album) I'd say between the mobile rehearsal studio they had in 2010, the freakin year off and a thing called the internet music was written and collaborated on in the last year or two.... they wouldn't call in lillywhite to rehash can't stop and break free (watch me bite my tongue in 3 months)

[yanks7533]

and as far as songwriting last year, hell dave wrote sweet the first night before Chicago, not to say sweet is epic but it kind of was a surprise to see dave was in a writing mood like that when they weren't touring or together the whole year, i tcould have been a sign the creative juices were flowing....we have no clue what he wrote, blackjack came out of nowhere even though it was up to 6 years old, but they worked on it again at some point

the band was in the studio making their next album in 2006 and VERY little was said about this, then all of a sudden the band almost broke up in 07. There have been times we did not know much at all...

[gmoore4th]

Lillywhite, please do something with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ONWld6TU-TQ

[Jordan#41]

Lillywhite, please do something with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ONWld6TU-TQ

I love that little tune.

[J0siah716]

Lillywhite, please do something with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ONWld6TU-TQ

This sounds awesome. Cant believe he's been coming up with ideas as far back as 09

[ChiefLoMien]

You guys are just crazy and need to be checked into the crazy house...

[Red&Black41]

Lillywhite, please do something with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ONWld6TU-TQ

Is this a DMB crowd? Never heard them, no matter how big, so quiet. I hope people would act respectful like this at all shows.

Nice little tune. Dave has always had the ability to create creative chord progressions and riffs, hopefully lyrics can come with it. What I like most about Lillywhite is his ability to melt the other sounds of the band with Dave's uniqueness.

[evino526]

How long did the Lillywhite sessions take to write?

Pretty sure that Rashawn being done does not mean the album is anywhere near final production.

I wouldn't think so. He said that guitars was next. I doubt they've recorded vocals or violin yet. They still have a lot of work left to do.

[AntzDigger7]

honestly, those of u who are saying it's CRAZY and moronic to think that the album could be existing unreleased tracks, should tone it down. it is not far-fetched to look at some of the clues that have surfaced and think that the album could at least be a 50/50 split of existing work and new work.

[bigkosmo22]

I see this as two potential outcomes.

1) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly older material. Sugar Will, Idea Of You, Joyride, Kill The King, Break Free, Shotgun, Good Good Time, Sweet Up And Down.

2) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly new material. New New New Old New Etc.

This board has a hard-on for Lillywhite, so why is either of these a bad thing. Consider yourselves lucky that this isnt Baston & Ballard collaborative effort album.

[Red&Black41]

I see this as two potential outcomes.

1) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly older material. Sugar Will, Idea Of You, Joyride, Kill The King, Break Free, Shotgun, Good Good Time, Sweet Up And Down.

2) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly new material. New New New Old New Etc.

This board has a hard-on for Lillywhite, so why is either of these a bad thing. Consider yourselves lucky that this isnt Baston & Ballard collaborative effort album.

I have a RAGING clue right now

[daveindyman]

Will we hear song from this recording session? Of course we will whether the songs are brand new to us or not. But who says an album will be done? Maybe the band went in with a handful of songs, wanted to get them laid down, and then take a break for a bit. They could come back at some future time whether a few months from now or after the tour while Dave writes more material on the road and finish the album off. Just an idea....

[Sniper15]

Thank you for agreeing. It's pretty clear that this band has never been great with writing material while on the road. With such an exhaustive schedule and spending so much time on tour buses it's gotta be a terrible environment for creating music. Dave has had peace and quiet and I truly am expecting some of his best work in a long time because FOR ONCE, he gave himself a break and the alone time to do so. Let me also add that we all realize that the band hates the studio. I am pretty sure that's nearly a fact. Think about how much pressure there is when you are in a room full of people and have to write songs from scratch? I realize a lot of bands do this but I just think it sounds like a really forced process. I really think think it forces songs to get completed way too quickly. Just because most of the members of DMB are incredibly talented musically does not mean that putting all of their minds together will make a better product. Let Dave do the writing and let the rest of the band come in and add their fills and tweaks to the songs that take them to a whole new level. Let's hope that that's what they've done this time

I hope this is what has happened. Most of the band's best songs were written solely by Dave.

[sheldonlevene]

This sounds awesome. Cant believe he's been coming up with ideas as far back as 09

Some say as far back as the late eighties and early nineties. ;)

[monroy36]

I hope this is what has happened. Most of the band's best songs were written solely by Dave.

disagree

[ramiro24]

last stop was written by stefan ^

[Sniper15]

disagree

Almost all of the songs where Dave is the sole songwriter are stellar. Collaborations have produced some great songs (LS, #41, DT) but more often than not collaborations produce average or shitty material (Stand Up, Everyday and Big Whiskey were all mostly made up of songs that were collaborations.) I trust Dave writing by himself more than I do the band writing as a collective

[jaymas9]

I see this as two potential outcomes.

1) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly older material. Sugar Will, Idea Of You, Joyride, Kill The King, Break Free, Shotgun, Good Good Time, Sweet Up And Down.

2) Lillywhite produces an album with mostly new material. New New New Old New Etc.

This board has a hard-on for Lillywhite, so why is either of these a bad thing. Consider yourselves lucky that this isnt Baston & Ballard collaborative effort album.I will guarantee this is not what we get.

[TMoore4075]

How long did the Lillywhite sessions take to write?

Pretty sure that Rashawn being done does not mean the album is anywhere near final production.

I think close to 6 months which was a long time in the bands eyes.

[swilson160]

C'mon, this seems pretty logical. Album will be all or almost all new, with 1-2 "unreleased" songs max. Then there will be a deluxe edition with a bonus disc, 4-6 songs, like Little Red Bird. This is where we're more likely to see some of the unreleased songs we would love to see done in the studio. Could be all unreleased songs, could be a mix like Little Red Bird. We could also see another one or two pop up as extra tracks on international versions like Cornbread did. This way, the album is pretty much all new, and the more hardcore fans who care about these unreleased songs can put out a little extra money to get them.

I feel pretty confident that we'll hear at least a couple studio versions of unreleased tracks, like we did with #27 and Cornbread last time. I'd guess we'll hear more than 2 this time around, but the album itself will almost certainly be new material.

[Utopia]

I'm fine either way, but I really hope Blackjack doesn't appear on it, unless the studio version is just awesome, but I doubt that it could be.

[Jordan#41]

Brand new album, all new songs

Standard 4 song Bonus Disc with 4 studio tracks

Crazy Easy
Shotgun
Hurricane
Sugar Will

Warehouse members get those four songs + 2 extra live songs

Sweet Up and Down - Live
Break Free - Live

iTunes LP album release will include: Blackjack - Live


Just a thought. Not true information...

[ramiro24]

I think close to 6 months which was a long time in the bands eyes.

yeah i saw a youtube video of dave after everyday came out and by month 5 in the studio with lillywhite he was absolutely sick of the whole thing

[pele69]

I always wondered why they didn't make last album a double disc and record 3 more songs ....I wouldnt mind a double disc of old stuff and new stuff

[vegeevore]

I will guarantee this is not what we get.

wow, guaranteed. that's better than a pinky promise.

[jaymas9]

wow, guaranteed. that's better than a pinky promise.Debatable...

I'll make a pinky promise as well.

[vaxarado]

Is this a DMB crowd? Never heard them, no matter how big, so quiet. I hope people would act respectful like this at all shows.

Nice little tune. Dave has always had the ability to create creative chord progressions and riffs, hopefully lyrics can come with it. What I like most about Lillywhite is his ability to melt the other sounds of the band with Dave's uniqueness.

Notice the title of the video?

Dave Matthews Vegas New Song 12.11.09 Private Show part 2

[LancLanc]

#goodgoodtimes tweet...

+1 for OP ?

[Luv4Roi]

Lillywhite, please do something with this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ONWld6TU-TQ

Wtf? That song is AWESOME!!! Never heard it before. :thumbsup

[vegeevore]

i think its funny how almost everybody who predicts that the new album has existing songs also predicts that crazy easy is on it, when that is one of the only songs in that group that hasn't been played in a quite a while.

[pato]

Anyone else remember DMB not touring last summer? News songs could have easily been written then.
this:D:D:thumbsup

[FenceJ7]

OP your original post had some good points but it was pretty much all one point reworded, all you needed to say was....

they havent been in the studio a long time, it doesnt make sense for them to rush an album therefore it must be old stuff

[Miller9]

i think its funny how almost everybody who predicts that the new album has existing songs also predicts that crazy easy is on it, when that is one of the only songs in that group that hasn't been played in a quite a while.

Not only this but if anyone read that book, So Much to Say that released last year, Stefan in an interview replied to the fact that they don't play fan favorites like Crazy Easy..he was quoted saying "I've been trying to get Dave to bring back Crazy Easy now for three years. It's hard because its one of the ones where i don't think he was feeling it even when we were writing it." but at the end of the interview he did say "I think with this rehearsal room, things will change." and the rehearsal room is something that DMB incorprated since there 2010 tour, kinda to mess around and create NEW MUSIC or simply work on old music.

so as much as i LOVE Crazy Easy unless Lillywhite really likes it and pushes Dave and the crew to work on it, i don't see it being on the album.

[TheStone91]

Not only this but if anyone read that book, So Much to Say that released last year, Stefan in an interview replied to the fact that they don't play fan favorites like Crazy Easy..he was quoted saying "I've been trying to get Dave to bring back Crazy Easy now for three years. It's hard because its one of the ones where i don't think he was feeling it even when we were writing it." but at the end of the interview he did say "I think with this rehearsal room, things will change." and the rehearsal room is something that DMB incorprated since there 2010 tour, kinda to mess around and create NEW MUSIC or simply work on old music.

so as much as i LOVE Crazy Easy unless Lillywhite really likes it and pushes Dave and the crew to work on it, i don't see it being on the album.


Agree with everything you said. Also, in an interview from 2009 about Crazy Easy, Dave said the song never really "stuck" with him. I would also love to be proven wrong about it showing up on the new album, but I just don't see Dave recording a song that doesn't really connect with him.

[Miller9]

Agree with everything you said. Also, in an interview from 2009 about Crazy Easy, Dave said the song never really "stuck" with him. I would also love to be proven wrong about it showing up on the new album, but I just don't see Dave recording a song that doesn't really connect with him.

Exactly! Dave isn't one to go where his heart isn't in the music (at least from what i have seen so far as a DMB fan haha). Don't get me wrong Crazy Easy is easily top 3 favorite live releases with Sugar Will and Shotgun, i would love to see what Lillywhite could create. Its a beautiful song and with the right lyrics(Live Trax 8 from Alpine, or the new Warehouse 5/11 release) it really could work wonders. only time can tell!

[ryanflick3]

I agree! This is the LIVE, but not live, Dave tweeted about a couple years ago around the time Big Whiskey came out. He said he wanted to make an album of all their live tunes that had not been recorded in the studio yet. I for one, think the songs available would be great. Maybe they have written a handful of new ones to add to the mix. Like 8 great live songs, and 4 or 5 brand new ones.

Shotgun, Idea of You, Can't Stop, Break Free etc, Sugar Will, Crazy Easy, Kill the King, etc... Would be great if Dave would write solid lyrics and finalize the structures of them for a record.

But I would be disappointed if there was no new material at all. I am a little shocked that 6 hours is all it would take to record the horn section. Unless the music was written out for them, and they just practiced for weeks on end before hitting record.

I still want DMB to make a double album that rivals Before These Crowded Streets. I think they have it in them. A double album being 16 to 18 songs. They can do whatever they want and it will sell. Why not? Why worry so much about being radio friendly all of a sudden? I mean the last few albums all were very concerned with selling and radio play. Funny the Way It Is, is a good song, but by no means comparible to Don't Drink The Water, or So Much to Say, or Crash even. I hope they don't release a single at all. That they can give a finger to the record industry this time, and make some brilliant music, old or new.

[ToddJoyride]

I didn't back-read this whole thing, but i just felt compelled to say that DMB has never been a band that looks back, (the exception being Busted Stuff of course) but, most of these songs everyone suggests, were around during the big whiskey sessions, if DMB wanted to work on them, i really think we would have seen more on whiskey (or anything for that matter) most of these songs also have been on the liberation list, only played a couple times, or are very sporadic at best, do y'all really think anyone in the band (besides fonz) will come in and say "know what, lets lay down crazy easy, haven't played it in 8 or so years, but i really adore that song" there's a reason certain songs never get finished or have set lyrics, or disappear, no matter how great or shitty they are.

[ToddJoyride]

I agree! This is the LIVE, but not live, Dave tweeted about a couple years ago around the time Big Whiskey came out. He said he wanted to make an album of all their live tunes that had not been recorded in the studio yet. I for one, think the songs available would be great. Maybe they have written a handful of new ones to add to the mix. Like 8 great live songs, and 4 or 5 brand new ones.

Shotgun, Idea of You, Can't Stop, Break Free etc, Sugar Will, Crazy Easy, Kill the King, etc... Would be great if Dave would write solid lyrics and finalize the structures of them for a record.

But I would be disappointed if there was no new material at all. I am a little shocked that 6 hours is all it would take to record the horn section. Unless the music was written out for them, and they just practiced for weeks on end before hitting record.

I still want DMB to make a double album that rivals Before These Crowded Streets. I think they have it in them. A double album being 16 to 18 songs. They can do whatever they want and it will sell. Why not? Why worry so much about being radio friendly all of a sudden? I mean the last few albums all were very concerned with selling and radio play. Funny the Way It Is, is a good song, but by no means comparible to Don't Drink The Water, or So Much to Say, or Crash even. I hope they don't release a single at all. That they can give a finger to the record industry this time, and make some brilliant music, old or new.

1. i'm sure they didn't start recording until all the horn lines were finalized and agreed upon, otherwise that would be an incredible waste of time, plus, at their level, obviously you need a good amount of takes, but with the equipment and technology they have, they can get things done much quicker and capture every take really well

2. the reason they make albums is because they are under contract, there's no way that would EVER fly with RCA, didn't RCA/Flohr hate tLws because there was not one song that was fit to be a single?

[LancLanc]

Personally I feel like part of the reason that some of these songs have been left unfinished is the fact that these songs required more effort to work out than starting a new one. It's much easier to have a clean pallate than it is to take an existing half-completed painting and turning it into a priceless work of art.

IMO that is why these songs have been absent from studio releases, not because the band has moved on or completely disengaged. They've just needed someone that is great at realizing the potential of something that is incomplete. For the first time in over a decade, they have that.

[markus_europe]

I love the thought of Smooth D having written a bunch of new songs that can stand for themselves in a bandcontext (contradictions of that theory: sister & co). I don't think this band is particularly good in creating great songs together, I think their strength is taking songs based on what used to be Dave's unique playing&writing and then building over it. At least those always were their highlights for me. I hope it goes back to that. I have no proof. =)

[oceanrac]

if the new album is merely a collection of old songs, i will be thoroughly disappointed.

i completely agree!

[3YNK4]

i completely agree!

especially since reworked old songs will most likely suck live compared to their prior versions (see busted stuff: lillywhite sessions)

[hockygoalie41]

Am I the only one who hopes for all news songs on the album, a bonus disk or EP of unreleased live songs done in the studio would be cool, but I am really excited at the idea of 10-14ish (I don't know) brand new dmb songs worked to perfection in the studio with Lillywhite.

I also feel that it has to be hard for Dave to get songs like crazy easy, sugar will, shotgun, etc, down well in the studio so that they would appease everyone. I mean who doesn't have their favorite live version of one of those, to me the most perfect version of the unreleased songs is one where they nailed it live, and that can't be replicated in the studio. In trying to get set lyrics, set arrangements for the music and all that, it is sure to split the fan base on a song or just not live up to everyone's idea of how that live song would translate to a studio track.

[DMBzilla]

disagree

The following songs all list Dave as the sole composer:

Ants Marching
Best of What's Around
Butterfly
Christmas Song
Crash Into Me
Crush
Cry Freedom
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink the Water
Drive In Drive Out
Good Good Time
Granny
Halloween
I'll Back You Up
JTR
Jimi Thing
Kill the King
Little Thing
Lover Lay Down
Loving Wings
Minarets
One Sweet World
Pay for What You Get
Recently
Rhyme & Reason
Satellite
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Sister
Spoon
The Stone
Sweet Up and Down
Tripping Billies
Two Step
Typical Situation
Warehouse
Water into Wine
What Would You Say

You can add most of Busted Stuff to that list as well, even though the full band is credited on the album (the result of the songs being reworked and re-recorded after LWS).

So, I'd love to hear why you disagree that most of DMB's best songs were written solely by Dave.

[NumberForTOne]

Am I the only one who hopes for all news songs on the album, a bonus disk or EP of unreleased live songs done in the studio would be cool, but I am really excited at the idea of 10-14ish (I don't know) brand new dmb songs worked to perfection in the studio with Lillywhite.

I also feel that it has to be hard for Dave to get songs like crazy easy, sugar will, shotgun, etc, down well in the studio so that they would appease everyone. I mean who doesn't have their favorite live version of one of those, to me the most perfect version of the unreleased songs is one where they nailed it live, and that can't be replicated in the studio. In trying to get set lyrics, set arrangements for the music and all that, it is sure to split the fan base on a song or just not live up to everyone's idea of how that live song would translate to a studio track.

The majority of the fan base doesn't trust DMB to create songs that are up to their ineffable standards, therefore they settle for the unreleased songs that they like for the most part, and would rather see full versions of. That being said, there are a few solid gems that I would kill to have studio.

Another reason is that, when you get studio versions on a new album, generally the songs begin to heavily rotated for a few years. I find it hard to believe that the majority of the fan base would complain about shotgun, crazy easy, good good time, etc. finding heavy rotation.

In short, people want un-released studio cuts because they're A) not trusting B) generally like the '04 un-released songs.

[jaymas9]

The following songs all list Dave as the sole composer:

Ants Marching
Best of What's Around
Butterfly
Christmas Song
Crash Into Me
Crush
Cry Freedom
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink the Water
Drive In Drive Out
Good Good Time
Granny
Halloween
I'll Back You Up
JTR
Jimi Thing
Kill the King
Little Thing
Lover Lay Down
Loving Wings
Minarets
One Sweet World
Pay for What You Get
Recently
Rhyme & Reason
Satellite
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Sister
Spoon
The Stone
Sweet Up and Down
Tripping Billies
Two Step
Typical Situation
Warehouse
Water into Wine
What Would You Say

You can add most of Busted Stuff to that list as well, even though the full band is credited on the album (the result of the songs being reworked and re-recorded after LWS).

So, I'd love to hear why you disagree that most of DMB's best songs were written solely by Dave.Love this post. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[MinaretMarching]

Love this post. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Second that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[Julia Roberts]

Am I the only one who hopes for all news songs on the album, a bonus disk or EP of unreleased live songs done in the studio would be cool, but I am really excited at the idea of 10-14ish (I don't know) brand new dmb songs worked to perfection in the studio with Lillywhite.

I also feel that it has to be hard for Dave to get songs like crazy easy, sugar will, shotgun, etc, down well in the studio so that they would appease everyone. I mean who doesn't have their favorite live version of one of those, to me the most perfect version of the unreleased songs is one where they nailed it live, and that can't be replicated in the studio. In trying to get set lyrics, set arrangements for the music and all that, it is sure to split the fan base on a song or just not live up to everyone's idea of how that live song would translate to a studio track.

You're not alone, many people want all new songs. But I think you need to consider a few things.

All new doesn't mean better. People were pleading for all new songs during the Stand Up sessions and for the most part they got all new songs. Granted, Batson doesn't hold a candle to Lillywhite, but still.

If there is any truth to the rumor that recording is done, could Dave and Lillywhite really write 10-15 great songs in 1 month? Or do you believe that Dave has 10-15 great songs (that we have never heard) mostly written just waiting for Lillywhite to help him finish? Both seem like longshots to me.

I tend to believe it will be a little from each column. Some old songs we know. Some old songs we don't know of. And some new songs. Unless the "they are done recording" rumor is a lie. In that case, who knows.

[3YNK4]

The following songs all list Dave as the sole composer:

Ants Marching
Best of What's Around
Butterfly
Christmas Song
Crash Into Me
Crush
Cry Freedom
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink the Water
Drive In Drive Out
Good Good Time
Granny
Halloween
I'll Back You Up
JTR
Jimi Thing
Kill the King
Little Thing
Lover Lay Down
Loving Wings
Minarets
One Sweet World
Pay for What You Get
Recently
Rhyme & Reason
Satellite
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Sister
Spoon
The Stone
Sweet Up and Down
Tripping Billies
Two Step
Typical Situation
Warehouse
Water into Wine
What Would You Say

You can add most of Busted Stuff to that list as well, even though the full band is credited on the album (the result of the songs being reworked and re-recorded after LWS).

So, I'd love to hear why you disagree that most of DMB's best songs were written solely by Dave.

It's still a pretty irrelevant thing to argue about. Your mostly comparing songs Dave wrote 20 years ago against what? songs that he was forced to write with producers? Plus, just because Dave is solely credited with writing the songs, how do you know what extent of input was really put into the songs from other members? Dave even said he used to lean on LeRoi a lot when trying to develop songs. He might be credited with writing the song but he didn't write every integral part of the songs i.e. horns, percussion, etc.

[DMBzilla]

It's still a pretty irrelevant thing to argue about. Your mostly comparing songs Dave wrote 20 years ago against what? songs that he was forced to write with producers?

It's plenty relevant -- Dave writes most of DMB's best material on his own and lets the band fill in later. History has shown this, and it's further evidenced by the fact that Some Devil includes Dave's best writing in a decade.

The only album where Dave was "forced to write with producers" was Everyday. No one forced him to allow Batson or Cavallo to write; in fact, Cavallo didn't write any material with the band.

Plus, just because Dave is solely credited with writing the songs, how do you know what extent of input was really put into the songs from other members? Dave even said he used to lean on LeRoi a lot when trying to develop songs. He might be credited with writing the song but he didn't write every integral part of the songs i.e. horns, percussion, etc.

Writing and developing songs are two very different things. The basic foundation for a song -- the music structure and the lyrics -- is what counts as writing the song. Fills added later are irrelevant as far as writing is concerned, even if they're very relevant when it comes to completing or fine tuning something Dave has already written. There's a reason that so many DMB songs still sound great in an acoustic DM or D&T setting.

[ToddJoyride]

It's plenty relevant -- Dave writes most of DMB's best material on his own and lets the band fill in later. History has shown this, and it's further evidenced by the fact that Some Devil includes Dave's best writing in a decade.

The only album where Dave was "forced to write with producers" was Everyday. No one forced him to allow Batson or Cavallo to write; in fact, Cavallo didn't write any material with the band.



Writing and developing songs are two very different things. The basic foundation for a song -- the music structure and the lyrics -- is what counts as writing the song. Fills added later are irrelevant as far as writing is concerned, even if they're very relevant when it comes to completing or fine tuning something Dave has already written. There's a reason that so many DMB songs still sound great in an acoustic DM or D&T setting.
exactly the same thing i was going to say

[gobias industry]

Does anybody remember Dave saying something along the lines of "There were other songs that were better but we chose these songs (to be on Big Whiskey) because they had LeRoi on them." I think that when Roi passed and they brought Coffin in they wrote a lot of material but when it came time to choosing the album they wanted to pick songs that had Roi on them.

Maybe they're moving so quickly because they're perfecting those songs that didn't make BW. This is certainly not a criticism on Roi, but I am extremely excited for a new CD that has Coffin as a writing factor.

[DMBvol41]

I'd be willing to bet that all new songs with Steve Lillywhite would be vastly better than:

Idea Of You
Can't Stop
Crazy Easy
Blackjack
Shotgun
Granny
Break Free
Good Good Time
Kill The King
Sugar Will

I REALLY hope Blackjack is not on this album...

That looks boring and stale. Aside from Sugar Will...

[gakm7]

I'd be willing to bet that all new songs with Steve Lillywhite would be vastly better than:

Idea Of You
Can't Stop
Crazy Easy
Blackjack
Shotgun
Granny
Break Free
Good Good Time
Kill The King
Sugar Will

I REALLY hope Blackjack is not on this album...

That looks boring and stale. Aside from Sugar Will...

I would honestly LOVE an album that had all those songs on it except for Blackjack and Can't Stop. Blackjack ain't written enough yet to be on an album and Can't Stop isn't good enough to be on an album

The rest of the list, except GGT, would fit on an album perfectly given they had decent lyrics on the recording. Yet, I would want GGT on the album just because it is a groovy jam. Or maybe make that a hidden track or a "filler jam song" like they did with ASTB, Deed Is Done, etc. on BTCS.

[Doofie27]

Well, in my short time here at ants, I see one trend that has been reoccurring; "Uh oh, a NEW SONG?!? God it SUCKS."

The blackjack hate is really quite hilarious, as it goes hand in hand with the big whiskey hate that came before it. Now that Big Whiskey isn't the newest, people are starting to warm up to it. Before BW it was Stand Up.

(FYI I don't mind Blackjack, although If I heard it all three nights at the gorge, ala You and Me, I would grow to hate it. As it stands, i've seen it (blackjack)..... 3 or 4 times now.

[pele69]

Well, in my short time here at ants, I see one trend that has been reoccurring; "Uh oh, a NEW SONG?!? God it SUCKS."

The blackjack hate is really quite hilarious, as it goes hand in hand with the big whiskey hate that came before it. Now that Big Whiskey isn't the newest, people are starting to warm up to it. Before BW it was Stand Up.

(FYI I don't mind Blackjack, although If I heard it all three nights at the gorge, ala You and Me, I would grow to hate it. As it stands, i've seen it (blackjack)..... 3 or 4 times now.

i dont mind blackjack either, but setlist variation is something everyone thinks they will do with more songs but in reality they stop playing older songs instead of changing songs every night...

[pantagampa]

Second that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Third that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[#41Tom]

Third that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Fourth that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[jaymas9]

It's plenty relevant -- Dave writes most of DMB's best material on his own and lets the band fill in later. History has shown this, and it's further evidenced by the fact that Some Devil includes Dave's best writing in a decade.

The only album where Dave was "forced to write with producers" was Everyday. No one forced him to allow Batson or Cavallo to write; in fact, Cavallo didn't write any material with the band.



Writing and developing songs are two very different things. The basic foundation for a song -- the music structure and the lyrics -- is what counts as writing the song. Fills added later are irrelevant as far as writing is concerned, even if they're very relevant when it comes to completing or fine tuning something Dave has already written. There's a reason that so many DMB songs still sound great in an acoustic DM or D&T setting.You're on fire right now...and saying things I want to say quicker than I am. :monkey

[DMBvol41]

Well, in my short time here at ants, I see one trend that has been reoccurring; "Uh oh, a NEW SONG?!? God it SUCKS."

The blackjack hate is really quite hilarious, as it goes hand in hand with the big whiskey hate that came before it. Now that Big Whiskey isn't the newest, people are starting to warm up to it. Before BW it was Stand Up.

(FYI I don't mind Blackjack, although If I heard it all three nights at the gorge, ala You and Me, I would grow to hate it. As it stands, i've seen it (blackjack)..... 3 or 4 times now.

I don't know if you saw the poll, but people on these boards are saying that Dreamgirl is a better song than Blackjack. Now THAT is saying something.

It's a bad song, no way around it. The lyrics are terrible.

My point is that if DMB comes out with this album with songs that everyone has already heard live, what's the point?? Are they gonna jam them out in the studio to make them sound different? More cleaned up? I don't think so. It would be really boring and WOULD NOT sell well at all IMO.

Also, people are tired of Big Whiskey. Why? Because the songs are going NOWHERE live aside from Lying In The Hands Of God and the intro to Funny The Way It Is. Unlike albums in the past where the songs grow on tour, this one does not.

[btpeters]

I don't know if you saw the poll, but people on these boards are saying that Dreamgirl is a better song than Blackjack. Now THAT is saying something.

It's a bad song, no way around it. The lyrics are terrible.

My point is that if DMB comes out with this album with songs that everyone has already heard live, what's the point?? Are they gonna jam them out in the studio to make them sound different? More cleaned up? I don't think so. It would be really boring and WOULD NOT sell well at all IMO.

Also, people are tired of Big Whiskey. Why? Because the songs are going NOWHERE live aside from Lying In The Hands Of God and the intro to Funny The Way It Is. Unlike albums in the past where the songs grow on tour, this one does not.

This is absolutely false. There's a whole world outside this website that buys DMB studio albums and probably make up a bigger percentage of studio album sales than we do. While they love DMB, they also don't hold them under a microscope. And these people probably don't realize the songs are old or that they've heard them at a show before. Probably think they're fresh new tunes. Hell, this is the person you get pissed at when Cry Freedom gets liberated and they either go to piss or don't shut the fuck up during it. Cuz they don't pay attention to stuff that's not on an album or doesn't get played much. I think sales would clock in just fine. And this time when they play Good Good Time, people might be singing along and paying attention or cheering at the first notes.

[BrotherChaos420]

side note: i miss boyds classical violin. i swear it has a better sound than that black atrocity he plays now.

[DMBvol41]

This is absolutely false. There's a whole world outside this website that buys DMB studio albums and probably make up a bigger percentage of studio album sales than we do. While they love DMB, they also don't hold them under a microscope. And these people probably don't realize the songs are old or that they've heard them at a show before. Probably think they're fresh new tunes. Hell, this is the person you get pissed at when Cry Freedom gets liberated and they either go to piss or don't shut the fuck up during it. Cuz they don't pay attention to stuff that's not on an album or doesn't get played much. I think sales would clock in just fine. And this time when they play Good Good Time, people might be singing along and paying attention or cheering at the first notes.

Agree to disagree. I just hope we get new music. Lillywhite can do so much better than Good Good Time and Blackjack...

[jkokoris]

For all the people the can't stand the idea of an album with 04/06/other unreleased songs on it: We should remember that UTTAD and Crash, and a good part of BTCS, were all exactly that-- the band reexamining their older material with Lillywhite's input. Sometimes the songs remained mostly the same (e.g. tripping billies), but most of the time they improved dramatically. Not just Pig, Rapunzel, DDTW, which were drastically reworked, but all the ones that just got tighter, more focused-- not sure if the changes all happened in-studio, but R2T's Ants is way worse than the perfection on UTTAD; two step got a lot darker. Then there's the advantages of the studio-- Lillywhite's layering and texturing benefitted all the songs immensely.

About 1,000 posts back in this thread someone commented how the band would never reunite with Lillywhite just for some b-sides album, and at first I agreed. But for three albums, that's basically what Lillywhite and them did: take songs that had been played for several years and retool them into the classics they are today. I'm not saying i'd like an album that was only unreleased live songs, but it's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Lillywhite might be what they need to make songs that they keep picking up and dropping stick, and to hopefully cut out the bad ones.

Ideally I'd like an album that mixed the unreleased songs with the most potential with some killer new tunes. Imagine taking your favorite six songs off Big Whiskey and mixing them with better versions of six of your favorite unreleased tunes. Chances are everyone would like that better than what we got. Think of the 2009 tour but instead of Funny played every night, we got granny. Or think of shows ending with epic shotguns instead of shake me like a monkey (... yes, that's what happened in St. Louis last year, I was there)

*Not to bash Big Whiskey-- I think it's a really solid album as it is!

[ravens24]

For all the people the can't stand the idea of an album with 04/06/other unreleased songs on it: We should remember that UTTAD and Crash, and a good part of BTCS, were all exactly that-- the band reexamining their older material with Lillywhite's input. Sometimes the songs remained mostly the same (e.g. tripping billies), but most of the time they improved dramatically. Not just Pig, Rapunzel, DDTW, which were drastically reworked, but all the ones that just got tighter, more focused-- not sure if the changes all happened in-studio, but R2T's Ants is way worse than the perfection on UTTAD; two step got a lot darker. Then there's the advantages of the studio-- Lillywhite's layering and texturing benefitted all the songs immensely.

About 1,000 posts back in this thread someone commented how the band would never reunite with Lillywhite just for some b-sides album, and at first I agreed. But for three albums, that's basically what Lillywhite and them did: take songs that had been played for several years and retool them into the classics they are today. I'm not saying i'd like an album that was only unreleased live songs, but it's not as ridiculous as it sounds. Lillywhite might be what they need to make songs that they keep picking up and dropping stick, and to hopefully cut out the bad ones.

Ideally I'd like an album that mixed the unreleased songs with the most potential with some killer new tunes. Imagine taking your favorite six songs off Big Whiskey and mixing them with better versions of six of your favorite unreleased tunes. Chances are everyone would like that better than what we got. Think of the 2009 tour but instead of Funny played every night, we got granny. Or think of shows ending with epic shotguns instead of shake me like a monkey (... yes, that's what happened in St. Louis last year, I was there)

*Not to bash Big Whiskey-- I think it's a really solid album as it is!

I dont disagree completely but I think the only songs on BW i would trade would be time bomb you and me....for shotgun and break for it (i love it but doesnt seem to popular on the boards)

MAN-IM STILL SAD THAT THE ORIGINAL TIME BOMB FROM THE SESSIONS DIDT GET FINISHED..it didnt leak in these two years I was off the boards did it??//

[BruceW]

I dont disagree completely but I think the only songs on BW i would trade would be time bomb you and me....for shotgun and break for it (i love it but doesnt seem to popular on the boards)

MAN-IM STILL SAD THAT THE ORIGINAL TIME BOMB FROM THE SESSIONS DIDT GET FINISHED..it didnt leak in these two years I was off the boards did it??//

are you referring to the April Sessions? or from the video we got from Studio Litho (with Roi)

[kitkatjaminTK]

side note: i miss boyds classical violin. i swear it has a better sound than that black atrocity he plays now.

2nd this my man.

[btpeters]

Agree to disagree. I just hope we get new music. Lillywhite can do so much better than Good Good Time and Blackjack...

I am only disagreeing with the fact that you said it wouldn't sell at all.

[ravens24]

are you referring to the April Sessions? or from the video we got from Studio Litho (with Roi)

I think both/either...did it leak?????

[iggysoccer20]

The problem with much of the "evidence" is that it hinges on the premise of an album coming in the near future. As I see it, there is just about nothing thus far to indicate that we will have an album within the next year.

[jkokoris]

I think both/either...did it leak?????

The studio litho one is the stripped down sounding thing that you probably are thinking of that was really cool--that definitely did not leak. The April Sessions one is almost the same as the one on the album, that is the one that did leak.

[ninjatim33]

Fourth that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

Fifth that. :thumbsup:thumbsup

[KAK1154]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Rashawn said that, prior to the horn tracking, the previous month or so had been spent tracking "live" drums with the band in order to get good takes for each song. To me, this indicates that the songs had pretty much been written before they even got to the studio, and that not a lot of collective writing occurred in 2012. Otherwise, they wouldn't have the song structures cemented enough to start recording drums.

While I'd love to believe that the band had written an album's worth of new songs on his own over the past year or two, I just don't think it's true. How much time did they spend together in 2012? The Caravans, plus a few days beforehand to set up and rehearse? Do you think they wrote an album during that time? I don't; I think they rehearsed existing songs for the Caravan.

Like OP, I think that this tips the scales heavily toward an album of existing/revisited songs. I don't even think it'll be half and half, I think it's more like 3 new songs at most.

I'm also wondering about the timing of the release. I don't think there's enough time to track, mix, and master the album, plus start the promotional machine going in time to release the album before the summer tour. I also don't think they'll release it during the tour. All of a sudden, we're into October. But wait, don't they like to release stuff in the early part of the year? Maybe it'll be early 2013? Just thinking out loud.

I just hope, if Break Free is on the album, that they slow it back down to 2006 tempo. That goes for other songs too, but Break Free is the worst offender.

[MColin28]

The problem with much of the "evidence" is that it hinges on the premise of an album coming in the near future. As I see it, there is just about nothing thus far to indicate that we will have an album within the next year.

Music is laid down, band has a mid summer break in touring, Stefan has described the album via Twitter, Lillywhite has said "no band in, just me and the new tunes" which identifies they've got some tracks already going through production and inside sources confirmed it's just about ready for mixing/printing (album art,name and so forth to be solidified), for a single to be debuted in May (aligning with the start of the tour).......so I'm a bit confused as why you're doubting an album drop....?

[MColin28]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that Rashawn said that, prior to the horn tracking, the previous month or so had been spent tracking "live" drums with the band in order to get good takes for each song. To me, this indicates that the songs had pretty much been written before they even got to the studio, and that not a lot of collective writing occurred in 2012. Otherwise, they wouldn't have the song structures cemented enough to start recording drums.

While I'd love to believe that the band had written an album's worth of new songs on his own over the past year or two, I just don't think it's true. How much time did they spend together in 2012? The Caravans, plus a few days beforehand to set up and rehearse? Do you think they wrote an album during that time? I don't; I think they rehearsed existing songs for the Caravan.

Like OP, I think that this tips the scales heavily toward an album of existing/revisited songs. I don't even think it'll be half and half, I think it's more like 3 new songs at most.

I'm also wondering about the timing of the release. I don't think there's enough time to track, mix, and master the album, plus start the promotional machine going in time to release the album before the summer tour. I also don't think they'll release it during the tour. All of a sudden, we're into October. But wait, don't they like to release stuff in the early part of the year? Maybe it'll be early 2013? Just thinking out loud.

I just hope, if Break Free is on the album, that they slow it back down to 2006 tempo. That goes for other songs too, but Break Free is the worst offender.

If you look at everything, a single SHOULD be out by May for radio play which coincides with a May start to summer touring. Busted Stuff followed same path and a July release. So I think it's almost certain this is the timetable. In addition, there's a break in July of the tour schedule which points to possible radio/tv show appearances in marketing new album. If a tour/album news release is this week, that's PLENTY of time to market and promote an album before a May single/tour start.

[KAK1154]

If you look at everything, a single SHOULD be out by May for radio play which coincides with a May start to summer touring. Busted Stuff followed same path and a July release. So I think it's almost certain this is the timetable. In addition, there's a break in July of the tour schedule which points to possible radio/tv show appearances in marketing new album. If a tour/album news release is this week, that's PLENTY of time to market and promote an album before a May single/tour start.

Hmm, the July break does make sense for promotion and/or release. I don't think they'll have album news this week, though (or anytime soon). Announcing an album release before the album is even tracked is way too risky.

[Mattardz]

Music is laid down, band has a mid summer break in touring, Stefan has described the album via Twitter, Lillywhite has said "no band in, just me and the new tunes" which identifies they've got some tracks already going through production and inside sources confirmed it's just about ready for mixing/printing (album art,name and so forth to be solidified), for a single to be debuted in May (aligning with the start of the tour).......so I'm a bit confused as why you're doubting an album drop....?

Of course nothing is confirmed until it is confirmed, but I am feeling pretty confident about it.

[pele69]

just a thought, but i know New Found Glorys last album's demos were done by sending the files back and forth over the internet and using skype/ facetime ...so you dont need to be physically together ....

[dvalukis]

Be careful what you wish for. If it IS an album of unreleased stuff it might point to the idea that the band is wrapping stuff up. Tie-ing up lose knots, and slowing down a whole lot. It's not out of the question, they're gettin' up there in age and money really isn't an issue for any of them I imagine.

[MColin28]

Be careful what you wish for. If it IS an album of unreleased stuff it might point to the idea that the band is wrapping stuff up. Tie-ing up lose knots, and slowing down a whole lot. It's not out of the question, they're gettin' up there in age and money really isn't an issue for any of them I imagine.

This won't be the case...and not to be ignorant, but I think this is faaaaaaar off. Dave is on record that he's SO happy and the guys are bonding in a way they never had before; not to mention what Tim and Jeff has infused in the current lineup. These guys were born to do this for the long haul. They're all in great shape and, hell, they couldn't OFFICIALLY take 2011 off from touring!

[bannar7]

If you look at everything, a single SHOULD be out by May for radio play which coincides with a May start to summer touring. Busted Stuff followed same path and a July release. So I think it's almost certain this is the timetable. In addition, there's a break in July of the tour schedule which points to possible radio/tv show appearances in marketing new album. If a tour/album news release is this week, that's PLENTY of time to market and promote an album before a May single/tour start.

Wait, how do you know this?

[wildbill79]

I don't know if any of you ants were around for the 2010 summer tour when blackjack was debuted along with some improv jams(which usually are new songs in the making). Then last year where a few more tunes got debuted along with dave commenting on returning this year with some new material. Also if you recall there was a good amount of unused material left over from the whiskey sessions. So I'm sure by the time they met Steve in Seattle they had more then albums worth of material for them to tweak up. I'd honestly be surprised if any of the pre-06 unreleased stuff makes this album outside of a bonus disc. Don't worry my fellow ants there will be plenty of new material for you to complain about and for them to overplay come this summer.

[MColin28]

Wait, how do you know this?


I knew about the tour break from a couple friends who work in booking agencies.

I think the majority of these songs (studio) were revisited ala the first 3 albums Steve made with them. They just needed his direction and structure to make them "DMB-esque" like he did with the Big 3. I'm thinking it's a culmination of Crazy Easy, Gas into Fire, Shotgun, Kill the King, Sweet, and so on......pure guessing. But that could be why it didn't take so long to make this bad boy.

[KAK1154]

Hmm, the July break does make sense for promotion and/or release. I don't think they'll have album news this week, though (or anytime soon). Announcing an album release before the album is even tracked is way too risky.

I'll put my own foot in my mouth before someone else does it for me. ;)
In my own defense, I was talking about an album announcement with a date, which didn't happen. I didn't really think about the fact that no official announcement about the album had been made at all yet.

[nbroscoff]

If this new album is unreleased songs do you think they would take such a long break in July/August to promote it? If that's what they are doing during that break I just don't think they would take that much time to promote an album of songs that many people have heard already.

[MColin28]

If this new album is unreleased songs do you think they would take such a long break in July/August to promote it? If that's what they are doing during that break I just don't think they would take that much time to promote an album of songs that many people have heard already.


You're thinking in terms of "many people have heard" just in regards to Antsmarching.org. If you go to your casual DMB fan at a concert this summer and ask them if they've ever heard Good Good Time or Crazy Easy, chances are they'll say "no". So there's still MASSES to promote "new" material/album to. I'd say AM.org represents what, 2% or so of DMB fans worldwide?

[TMoore4075]

You're thinking in terms of "many people have heard" just in regards to Antsmarching.org. If you go to your casual DMB fan at a concert this summer and ask them if they've ever heard Good Good Time or Crazy Easy, chances are they'll say "no". So there's still MASSES to promote "new" material/album to. I'd say AM.org represents what, 2% or so of DMB fans worldwide?

I won't put a % to it cause I would have no idea but yeah you are right. I even know WH members who probably don't know those songs. Huge fans but not into the downloading and online community.

[MColin28]

I won't put a % to it cause I would have no idea but yeah you are right. I even know WH members who probably don't know those songs. Huge fans but not into the downloading and online community.

Agreed.

I wonder if there's a way to put a percentage on that :confused Regardless, even if this is a "Busted Stuff" type album release with older songs, I'd say 95% of album buyers haven't heard material of CE, GGT, and so on.

[gmoore4th]

Does the documented statement indicating Carter's use of live tracks to influence the drums on this album strongly suggest that the songs on the album will be previously existing songs?

[bubba40]

Does the documented statement indicating Carter's use of live tracks to influence the drums on this album strongly suggest that the songs on the album will be previously existing songs?

This to me is the big question too :thumbsup

[gmoore4th]

This to me is the big question too :thumbsup

I mean I first wanted to make sure that I understood that bit of information correctly...

But that withstanding, it seems to me that the burden of proof falls on suggesting ways in which that does not strongly indicate previously existing tunes will be on this album.

[pele69]

Does the documented statement indicating Carter's use of live tracks to influence the drums on this album strongly suggest that the songs on the album will be previously existing songs?

no it means carter is playing with the horns each time ...

[jas230314]

Ants members are a LOT more of the fanbase than you'd think.

Consider this:

In the tour central section of the site, people can enter in their seating location if they so choose. Very few of the people that visit this site actually visit the tour central, and even fewer register that information (let alone those who read the boards but haven't registered).

For popular concerts, like the Cville shows in 2010, the number of people who registered their seating location out of the capacity for the venue was like 9-10%. Typically, it's around 5-6%.

I'd say it's safe to assume that at a random show, 5% are diehards, and 15% are familiar with songs like Crazy Easy or #40. From what I see, about half of the people in the pavilion of a show will go crazy when a rarer song is played.

[CarterDMB27]

When I was at the AC Caravan I was with a group of people that attend DMB shows in the Philly area every year. Most of them had been to over 20 shows total.

None of them knew what Kill the King was.

I think many of us here assume more people know these tracks than they really do.

If the album is 100%-75% live songs that haven't been on an album I'd be happy. I hope for all new, but I wouldn't be upset if it wasn't. Songs like Crazy Easy, Good Good Time vary greatly live. If they get a tighter version I think it is only a good thing.

The only thing I hope for is that the song Hurricane Dave played at that private show gets worked out. Lillywhite has gotten great things out of the full band in slower songs and not over done it (Lover Lay Down, Cry Freedom, Crush, Let You Down). I feel like that song could be a great one even though we've only heard a tid bit of it.

[trippingbillie4]

I say evidence points to mostly old songs now. Very interesting.

[thestand]

Does the documented statement indicating Carter's use of live tracks to influence the drums on this album strongly suggest that the songs on the album will be previously existing songs?

This to me is the big question too :thumbsup

Nope, that's not what that usage of live meant. When you're talking about a studio situation "live recording" is anything that's not isolated recording. So when Carter's in a room by himself recording the drums, that's an isolated recording. If Carter's playing drums in the main room of the studio while the rest of the band plays along, that's live recording. It just means that they're basing most of Carter's tracking off of those initial live recordings playing along with the band in the studio. It gives it, as the term suggests, a more live setting. Because it picks up different little reverberations, and even bits of the other instruments, in the drum mics, that recording in isolation doesn't.

So yeah, when Rashawn mentioned live drums, that's what he meant.

[Norman Smiley]

Ants members are a LOT more of the fanbase than you'd think.

Consider this:

In the tour central section of the site, people can enter in their seating location if they so choose. Very few of the people that visit this site actually visit the tour central, and even fewer register that information (let alone those who read the boards but haven't registered).

For popular concerts, like the Cville shows in 2010, the number of people who registered their seating location out of the capacity for the venue was like 9-10%. Typically, it's around 5-6%.

I'd say it's safe to assume that at a random show, 5% are diehards, and 15% are familiar with songs like Crazy Easy or #40. From what I see, about half of the people in the pavilion of a show will go crazy when a rarer song is played.

There was a time I believed this. However, I clearly remember the mass exodus during dreaming tree at Gorge in 2006. I was floored that so many people chose this time to get a beer or piss.

Also, the most diehard crowd I have been at - red rocks 2005 - pretty much talked the entire #34.... Listen to a taper pull.

I don't think much of the crowd would know what Crazy Easy was of it was played at the tour opener.

[thestand]

But that withstanding, it seems to me that the burden of proof falls on suggesting ways in which that does not strongly indicate previously existing tunes will be on this album.

This is a bit silly, to me. It's akin to saying show me that the new album isn't 13 GWAR covers. This is something that happens every single album, and will happen in the next album. Big Whiskey very well could have been:

The Idea of You
Can't Stop
Kill the King
Break For It
A Dream So Real
Good Good Time
#27
Sugar Will
Break Free
Crazy Easy
Sister/Baby Blue
(random soundcheck songs that the band has probably forgotten about but fans haven't)

And guess what: that also was a predominant thought, that the album in fact would be that. And those thoughts continued until the band came out and said that it was new songs, and then people said "well, maybe once the tracklist comes out, one of the song names will be something we know, but they changed it a bit."

The thought always exists that the album will be mainly stuff we know. And Stand Up had one song we knew, with another studio song we knew on the bonus disc. BW had a song based on the skeleton of a song we knew, a song based on a jam of another song, and two songs on the bonus disc/Euro release that we knew.

If the burden of proof is on anyone, it's on the people that believe the modus operandi of the band is going to change this time.

I mean, to look at it another way, which pre-studio period did the band have more writing time: Big Whiskey, or this one? There were four years between SU and BW, but since nearly everything from the failed Batson work in 06/07 was scrapped, the bulk of the work was in 08, when all combined acts (DMB/DM/D+T/Fonz stuff) played 69 shows. For this album, the possibility of the writing stems right from after the release of BW, but the bulk of it probably occurred in 2011, where, if you combine the days D+T and DMB played, Dave was on stage 26 times.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest this album has gone any differently than the last two, other than people who admit they aren't all that knowledgeable about how an album is made thinking that two months is a short time period. I think DMB's inherent laziness in past sessions make it seem like albums take forever. But when we talk about the Batson sessions, you have to factor in all those days they were "in studio", but were actually just eating and watching tv and going "that's a song!" to Kia commercials. That's not how professionals make an album.

My money is still on 2-4 known songs on the album, 8-10 unknown.

[DMBzilla]

I say evidence points to mostly old songs now. Very interesting.

Not sure where you're getting this from. From everything available at this point, there is nothing that suggests exactly what they recorded, new or old. Realistically, I'm thinking there will be something(s) on the album that we've heard, and a bunch of things we haven't.

That said, I could certainly see "old" as meaning old to the band, but new to us (i.e. unreleased material from the BWGK sessions).

I've posted something similar before, but I could totally get on board with something like...

Crazy Easy
New Song
New Song
Shotgun
New Song
Blackjack
New Song
New Song
Sweet Up & Down
New Song
Sugar Will
New Song

[Hahninator]

I was pretty shocked in Atlanta 2010 for the pretty loud chants for Cortez that continued between a few songs. I didn't know that many would be familiar with the song.


The only thing I hope for is that the song Hurricane Dave played at that private show gets worked out. Lillywhite has gotten great things out of the full band in slower songs and not over done it (Lover Lay Down, Cry Freedom, Crush, Let You Down). I feel like that song could be a great one even though we've only heard a tid bit of it.

Show date? Not familiar. Wanna link me up on the Almanac?

[kanedmb]

Not sure where you're getting this from. From everything available at this point, there is nothing that suggests exactly what they recorded, new or old. Realistically, I'm thinking there will be something(s) on the album that we've heard, and a bunch of things we haven't.

That said, I could certainly see "old" as meaning old to the band, but new to us (i.e. unreleased material from the BWGK sessions).

I've posted something similar before, but I could totally get on board with something like...

Crazy Easy
New Song
New Song
Shotgun
New Song
Blackjack
New Song
New Song
Sweet Up & Down
New Song
Sugar Will
New Song

I highly doubt that Crazy Easy will make it onto the album, or even a bonus disc. I feel like the 2004 songs, and that one in particular, aren't something Dave wants to work on. I think the band has a bunch of stuff leftover from the BW sessions they worked on, and lots of stuff Dave wrote during the past year or so, including Hurricane from '10.

History and interviews have showed us that Dave's willingness to "bring back" tunes really only stretches back a couple of years. He's never been excited about reaching way back to songs they haven't done anything with for a while.

[bannar7]

Not sure where you're getting this from. From everything available at this point, there is nothing that suggests exactly what they recorded, new or old. Realistically, I'm thinking there will be something(s) on the album that we've heard, and a bunch of things we haven't.

That said, I could certainly see "old" as meaning old to the band, but new to us (i.e. unreleased material from the BWGK sessions).

I've posted something similar before, but I could totally get on board with something like...

Crazy Easy
New Song
New Song
Shotgun
New Song
Blackjack
New Song
New Song
Sweet Up & Down
New Song
Sugar Will
New Song

This is what I would want to. If the album was 100% filled with songs that we have already heard dozens of times, I completely believe ants would be very disappointing. Whether they think that at the moment or not

[dance41nancies]

I have a hard time thinking that Steve was brought in for an album full of songs we've heard before. Why face up to the past issue you had with Steve if you are looking to simply release an "easy" album?

[rdp520]

I have a hard time thinking that Steve was brought in for an album full of songs we've heard before. Why face up to the past issue you had with Steve if you are looking to simply release an "easy" album?

MAYBE....and this of course is a big MAYBE, they plan on doing another album after this one with Lillywhite. Maybe rework some old tunes,maybe even some stuff from back in the day with Steve...possibly throw in a couple brand new songs. Kind of get a little used to working together again and the following album could be 100 percent all new stuff. But then again who knows...it's just hard to picture all new material being recorded so quickly.

[ToddJoyride]

This is a bit silly, to me. It's akin to saying show me that the new album isn't 13 GWAR covers. This is something that happens every single album, and will happen in the next album. Big Whiskey very well could have been:

The Idea of You
Can't Stop
Kill the King
Break For It
A Dream So Real
Good Good Time
#27
Sugar Will
Break Free
Crazy Easy
Sister/Baby Blue
(random soundcheck songs that the band has probably forgotten about but fans haven't)

And guess what: that also was a predominant thought, that the album in fact would be that. And those thoughts continued until the band came out and said that it was new songs, and then people said "well, maybe once the tracklist comes out, one of the song names will be something we know, but they changed it a bit."

The thought always exists that the album will be mainly stuff we know. And Stand Up had one song we knew, with another studio song we knew on the bonus disc. BW had a song based on the skeleton of a song we knew, a song based on a jam of another song, and two songs on the bonus disc/Euro release that we knew.

If the burden of proof is on anyone, it's on the people that believe the modus operandi of the band is going to change this time.

I mean, to look at it another way, which pre-studio period did the band have more writing time: Big Whiskey, or this one? There were four years between SU and BW, but since nearly everything from the failed Batson work in 06/07 was scrapped, the bulk of the work was in 08, when all combined acts (DMB/DM/D+T/Fonz stuff) played 69 shows. For this album, the possibility of the writing stems right from after the release of BW, but the bulk of it probably occurred in 2011, where, if you combine the days D+T and DMB played, Dave was on stage 26 times.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest this album has gone any differently than the last two, other than people who admit they aren't all that knowledgeable about how an album is made thinking that two months is a short time period. I think DMB's inherent laziness in past sessions make it seem like albums take forever. But when we talk about the Batson sessions, you have to factor in all those days they were "in studio", but were actually just eating and watching tv and going "that's a song!" to Kia commercials. That's not how professionals make an album.

My money is still on 2-4 known songs on the album, 8-10 unknown.

what songs are these/what did they develop from, im completely lost.

[ravens24]

yeah what songs are those?

and is there another video besides this one of HURRICANE?

http://youtu.be/qBHgncmOAHI

[TheStone91]

I highly doubt that Crazy Easy will make it onto the album, or even a bonus disc. I feel like the 2004 songs, and that one in particular, aren't something Dave wants to work on. I think the band has a bunch of stuff leftover from the BW sessions they worked on, and lots of stuff Dave wrote during the past year or so, including Hurricane from '10.

History and interviews have showed us that Dave's willingness to "bring back" tunes really only stretches back a couple of years. He's never been excited about reaching way back to songs they haven't done anything with for a while.

Agree 100% with everything you said above. :thumbsup

But I would be ecstatic if Crazy Easy is on the new album...love the song

[vklugf]

There was a time I believed this. However, I clearly remember the mass exodus during dreaming tree at Gorge in 2006. I was floored that so many people chose this time to get a beer or piss.

Also, the most diehard crowd I have been at - red rocks 2005 - pretty much talked the entire #34.... Listen to a taper pull.

I don't think much of the crowd would know what Crazy Easy was of it was played at the tour opener.

This.

Plus, they still sell more albums than tickets, so even if we represent 5-9% of the live audience, we are the 1% (hehe) of the studio album audience.

[Joruus]

what songs are these/what did they develop from, im completely lost.

Skeleton of a song (Sister) = Baby Blue
Song based on a jam (outro to Old Dirt Hill) = Why I Am

[btpeters]

Skeleton of a song (Sister) = Baby Blue
Song based on a jam (outro to Old Dirt Hill) = Why I Am

LITHOG lyrics were used during an intro to What You Are in 2008 as well.

But with LITHOG and WIA, you can't really know for certain if those were teases or not

[dmbredsox36]

But then again who knows...it's just hard to picture all new material being recorded so quickly.

I can't figure out what everyone's thinking the album is a rush job. They band had all of 2011 off. Do you think they really just sat around and did nothing that whole time? They're musicians, amazing musicians at that, and the fire would still be burning regardless if they were on the road or not. Maybe they shared ideas throughout the year and when it came down to sit down with Lillywhite, they were focused, organized and ready to work.

As someone just mentioned, I think there's a song or two we've heard before, and the rest be new material.

[dmbredsox36]

Nope, that's not what that usage of live meant. When you're talking about a studio situation "live recording" is anything that's not isolated recording. So when Carter's in a room by himself recording the drums, that's an isolated recording. If Carter's playing drums in the main room of the studio while the rest of the band plays along, that's live recording. It just means that they're basing most of Carter's tracking off of those initial live recordings playing along with the band in the studio. It gives it, as the term suggests, a more live setting. Because it picks up different little reverberations, and even bits of the other instruments, in the drum mics, that recording in isolation doesn't.

So yeah, when Rashawn mentioned live drums, that's what he meant.

Couldn't have explained it better myself. :thumbsup

[brendan948725]

I want like-- 8 old songs and 4 new ones. Enough well-recorded old ones to satiate our appetite for epic tour setlists, and a few new ones to satisfy our everlasting need for "MOAR!1!11!!!"

DEAR DMB-- IF YOU GUYS ARE READING THIS, PLEASE INCLUDE:

1. Crazy Easy
2. Shotgun
3. Sugar Will
4. Good Good Time
5. The Idea of You
6. Run For It
7. Break Free
8. Kill the King

[trippingbillie4]

Not sure where you're getting this from. From everything available at this point, there is nothing that suggests exactly what they recorded, new or old. Realistically, I'm thinking there will be something(s) on the album that we've heard, and a bunch of things we haven't.

That said, I could certainly see "old" as meaning old to the band, but new to us (i.e. unreleased material from the BWGK sessions).

I've posted something similar before, but I could totally get on board with something like...

Crazy Easy
New Song
New Song
Shotgun
New Song
Blackjack
New Song
New Song
Sweet Up & Down
New Song
Sugar Will
New Song

I like this track list. Hopefully you're right! Put Kill the King in there too. And that soundcheck song from 06.

[trippingbillie4]

Opening with that soundcheck song from 06 would be an epic way to start

[hockygoalie41]

1. where is everyone getting this idea of crazy easy from, it hasn't been played or teased in 8 years and the last time it was mentioned dave said it 'didn't land'

2. sugar will had two chances to be on an album and didn't make either, and we know it was recorded in the studio during BW, look at sweet up and down, live song, then studio track, then made a live comeback and never made an album, I love sugar will but don't see it making an album

3. the resurgence of some old songs is most likely from fans/stefan (no idea really) and made the caravans really special, but look at good good time, people threw a capo on stage and had signs, so dave teased it a few times then played a short half assed version. Listen to the 2004 version of good good time the finger picking is awesome and the song was 7-9 min long plus the capo on 3rd fret makes for an unique tone to the song, the one time it was played in 2010 it was strummed, no capo and only 4 min long.

4. blackjack intro is two chords, then some power chords in a progression, then dave doesn't touch his guitar for a majority of the song while scatting incoherently, I really hope it is not on the album

[MColin28]

1. where is everyone getting this idea of crazy easy from, it hasn't been played or teased in 8 years and the last time it was mentioned dave said it 'didn't land'

2. sugar will had two chances to be on an album and didn't make either, and we know it was recorded in the studio during BW, look at sweet up and down, live song, then studio track, then made a live comeback and never made an album, I love sugar will but don't see it making an album

3. the resurgence of some old songs is most likely from fans/stefan (no idea really) and made the caravans really special, but look at good good time, people threw a capo on stage and had signs, so dave teased it a few times then played a short half assed version. Listen to the 2004 version of good good time the finger picking is awesome and the song was 7-9 min long plus the capo on 3rd fret makes for an unique tone song, the one time it was played in 2010 it was strummed, no capo and only 4 min long.

4. blackjack intro is two chords, then some power chords in a progression, then dave doesn't touch his guitar for a majority of the song while scatting incoherently, I really hope it is not on the album

Crazy Easy was soundchecked in the past couple years and touched in rehearsal room. Steve knows the fanbase and our love for the 04 songs/old sound. I think he'd pitch the idea.

SW wouldn't have fitted well with the flow of BW. I also think Steve has better vision for layering and ideas for making SW a great studio track. Pig/DBTP had 3 chances at an album and didn't make it till BTCS, but it finally did. So can't count that option out.

I find it odd that all of a sudden on their "off year" they play the 04/06 songs that never made an album appearance and then all songs were somewhat nailed down and reworked. Not to mention, Dave said he'd love to visit a "Live not Live" album of live songs that hadn't made the studio. Who better to orchestrate this than Lillywhite (who essentially did the same with UTTaD/Crash using older "live" songs?)

Agree with Blackjack. Unless Steve waves a magical wand at it, it's garbage.

[kyledmb]

I'd like all new songs, with the exception of Blue Water.

[kyledmb]

1. where is everyone getting this idea of crazy easy from, it hasn't been played or teased in 8 years and the last time it was mentioned dave said it 'didn't land'

2. sugar will had two chances to be on an album and didn't make either, and we know it was recorded in the studio during BW, look at sweet up and down, live song, then studio track, then made a live comeback and never made an album, I love sugar will but don't see it making an album

3. the resurgence of some old songs is most likely from fans/stefan (no idea really) and made the caravans really special, but look at good good time, people threw a capo on stage and had signs, so dave teased it a few times then played a short half assed version. Listen to the 2004 version of good good time the finger picking is awesome and the song was 7-9 min long plus the capo on 3rd fret makes for an unique tone to the song, the one time it was played in 2010 it was strummed, no capo and only 4 min long.

4. blackjack intro is two chords, then some power chords in a progression, then dave doesn't touch his guitar for a majority of the song while scatting incoherently, I really hope it is not on the album

Agreed. And i have a hard time believing any of these songs would pass the lillywhite litmus test in the studio.

[jaymas9]

I guarantee this album will not be mostly or all b-sides. I think everyone is really trying to hard, and reading way too much into the amount of time recording took. It's a normal time frame to create/record an album. The length of time dmb took on BW was not a normal amount of time, the way stand up went was not a normal amount of time. Having a time frame here, focused and ready to work is going to lead to a better record.

[hockygoalie41]

Crazy Easy was soundchecked in the past couple years and touched in rehearsal room. Steve knows the fanbase and our love for the 04 songs/old sound. I think he'd pitch the idea.

SW wouldn't have fitted well with the flow of BW. I also think Steve has better vision for layering and ideas for making SW a great studio track. Pig/DBTP had 3 chances at an album and didn't make it till BTCS, but it finally did. So can't count that option out.

I find it odd that all of a sudden on their "off year" they play the 04/06 songs that never made an album appearance and then all songs were somewhat nailed down and reworked. Not to mention, Dave said he'd love to visit a "Live not Live" album of live songs that hadn't made the studio. Who better to orchestrate this than Lillywhite (who essentially did the same with UTTaD/Crash using older "live" songs?)

Agree with Blackjack. Unless Steve waves a magical wand at it, it's garbage.

I did not know that about crazy easy, thanks

true, I forgot about a lot of the stuff in the 90's that was probably tracked in the studio a few times before making one of the three albums, but would you agree that dmb post 90s has not done something like that, it's a different time for the band and making songs now, then again maybe lillywhite will be a factor here

uttad and crash were the band's first two albums so of course they were going to pull from a lot of the songs that made them popular in 92/93 that were only played live, '04 and '06 are a little while ago now and we all know that period 04-07 ish? was not the best for the band, I think perhaps bringing back some old live songs was to get something fresh with the new line up but songs that were not completely new to the band, that fits with dave's inherent laziness haha

[gmoore4th]

Nope, that's not what that usage of live meant. When you're talking about a studio situation "live recording" is anything that's not isolated recording. So when Carter's in a room by himself recording the drums, that's an isolated recording. If Carter's playing drums in the main room of the studio while the rest of the band plays along, that's live recording. It just means that they're basing most of Carter's tracking off of those initial live recordings playing along with the band in the studio. It gives it, as the term suggests, a more live setting. Because it picks up different little reverberations, and even bits of the other instruments, in the drum mics, that recording in isolation doesn't.

So yeah, when Rashawn mentioned live drums, that's what he meant.

Thanks for the clarification.

[dmbredsox36]

I guarantee this album will not be mostly or all b-sides. I think everyone is really trying to hard, and reading way too much into the amount of time recording took. It's a normal time frame to create/record an album. The length of time dmb took on BW was not a normal amount of time, the way stand up went was not a normal amount of time. Having a time frame here, focused and ready to work is going to lead to a better record.

Exactly! Thank god there's still some logical thinking people left...

Granted if you're avatar is any indication, we strongly disagree on other items, but with this, I full agree with you. :lol

[vklugf]

I guarantee this album will not be mostly or all b-sides. I think everyone is really trying to hard, and reading way too much into the amount of time recording took. It's a normal time frame to create/record an album. The length of time dmb took on BW was not a normal amount of time, the way stand up went was not a normal amount of time. Having a time frame here, focused and ready to work is going to lead to a better record.

How can you guarantee this? Nobody know anything for sure.

[coolhotwaves]

I will bet that there's not more than 1 recognizable song on the album. I would say 11 new songs and 1 previously played song.

[DMBvol41]

If there are ANY old songs on this album, I hope it looks like this:

New Song
New Song
New Song
Sugar Will
New Song
New Song
New Song
New Song
New Song
New Song
Monkey Man
New Song

[coolhotwaves]

more like shotgun

[MColin28]

I did not know that about crazy easy, thanks

true, I forgot about a lot of the stuff in the 90's that was probably tracked in the studio a few times before making one of the three albums, but would you agree that dmb post 90s has not done something like that, it's a different time for the band and making songs now, then again maybe lillywhite will be a factor here

uttad and crash were the band's first two albums so of course they were going to pull from a lot of the songs that made them popular in 92/93 that were only played live, '04 and '06 are a little while ago now and we all know that period 04-07 ish? was not the best for the band, I think perhaps bringing back some old live songs was to get something fresh with the new line up but songs that were not completely new to the band, that fits with dave's inherent laziness haha

To start, this is a good/refreshing argument/debate. Fun coming across people who know how to respond respectfully and carry on a discussion instead of name calling and finger pointing.....so this is enjoyable :thumbsup

Yea no problem, Crazy Easy has been toyed with and as stated, Lillywhite knows the heart of this fanbase in regards to tunes that were overlooked that deserve treatment. I really think (as blunt as he is) that he'll suggest some stuff to be revisited (whether it be MacHead/CE/SW etc...) or something waaaaay back like Blue Water. He knows what we're looking for.

Yes, totally agree that post 90s it's a bit different (aside from LWS->Busted Stuff. I think you nailed it, Lillywhite is the X factor. Again, he knows the sound/feel we're looking for. I think he'll voice our opinions for us. He's heard us via Twitter/chats/boards!

Yes, UTTAD/Crash were made off of a lot of their previous live stuff. But a lot of material was left off the albums by Steve which is a bummer, but gives a chance to revisit (IBYU, Blue Water, Granny and so forth). In addition, Dave mentioned in an interview "we should make a Live,not Live album of all our stuff that never made the studio". So that being said, I see a chance of them doing so since Steve did so well in the past. The breakdown of the band was '07-ish. I see what you mean not wanting to re-hash old songs from a bad period....but I find it so odd they played a number of 04/06/new songs SO well and re-worked during the Caravans last year. This also leads me to believe a few will make the new album.

/opinion

Cheers

[KAK1154]

Nope, that's not what that usage of live meant. When you're talking about a studio situation "live recording" is anything that's not isolated recording. So when Carter's in a room by himself recording the drums, that's an isolated recording. If Carter's playing drums in the main room of the studio while the rest of the band plays along, that's live recording. It just means that they're basing most of Carter's tracking off of those initial live recordings playing along with the band in the studio. It gives it, as the term suggests, a more live setting. Because it picks up different little reverberations, and even bits of the other instruments, in the drum mics, that recording in isolation doesn't.

So yeah, when Rashawn mentioned live drums, that's what he meant.

Just to add to that, it also allows Carter to play off of what the other band members are doing, instead of just recording to a metronome, which helps with the live feel.

If the burden of proof is on anyone, it's on the people that believe the modus operandi of the band is going to change this time.

I mean, to look at it another way, which pre-studio period did the band have more writing time: Big Whiskey, or this one? There were four years between SU and BW, but since nearly everything from the failed Batson work in 06/07 was scrapped, the bulk of the work was in 08, when all combined acts (DMB/DM/D+T/Fonz stuff) played 69 shows. For this album, the possibility of the writing stems right from after the release of BW, but the bulk of it probably occurred in 2011, where, if you combine the days D+T and DMB played, Dave was on stage 26 times.

I don't think the burden of proof is on anyone, we're just spitting out theories here.

It's not about writing time, it's about writing time together. From everything we know, the band did not have much writing time together in the past 1.5 years like they did with BW (multiple studio sessions). I think that's the difference.

But with LITHOG and WIA, you can't really know for certain if those were teases or not

True. I think these bits of the songs had already been written in the previous studio sessions.

I can't figure out what everyone's thinking the album is a rush job. They band had all of 2011 off. Do you think they really just sat around and did nothing that whole time?

They weren't together for much time at all last year, we (pretty much) know that. And if they weren't together as a band, they weren't writing complete songs that would be ready to record immediately.

One more point: I think the constant mention/assumption that Crazy Easy will be on the album is mostly because many people want it to be, not necessarily because it is likely to be revisited.

[jaymas9]

I guarantee this album will not be mostly or all b-sides. I think everyone is really trying to hard, and reading way too much into the amount of time recording took. It's a normal time frame to create/record an album. The length of time dmb took on BW was not a normal amount of time, the way stand up went was not a normal amount of time. Having a time frame here, focused and ready to work is going to lead to a better record.Because I'm looking at the facts. Most people think it's b-sides because there's this notion they rushed, and took no time. But the reality is, if you know about the recording process, this was a very normal time frame, and similar to how Lillywhite structured things in the past. They aren't bringing him back for b-sides. Plenty of those songs could have ended up on Stand Up or BW and they didn't. The band has zero track record of taking material that is 6-8 years old and putting it on a studio record after bypassing two others.

[jaymas9]

How can you guarantee this? Nobody know anything for sure.Should have quoted this....I'm silly. Maybe I shouldn't make any guarantees...

[Julia Roberts]

There is so much incorrect about that post^^

In the past Lillywhite worked with old material, including some very old material.

I'm not sure where the whole "B-sides" bullshit came from. #27, Joyride, Cornbread (sorta) were B-sides and will not be recorded. You can probably include Eh Hee too. Putting #40, Sugar Will, Shotgun etc on an album would not be a collection of B-sides. It would be new material from the studio.

We don't know why some old songs weren't on SU or BW, but we do know Dave was in the studio working on Sugar Will AFTER BW was released. Could be that those songs didn't fit on those albums. Let's face it, Hello Again feels out of place on SU. It probably should have gone on BW.

The band does have a history of putting old material on albums, especially with Lillywhite around.

[brobb]

Because I'm looking at the facts. Most people think it's b-sides because there's this notion they rushed, and took no time. But the reality is, if you know about the recording process, this was a very normal time frame, and similar to how Lillywhite structured things in the past. They aren't bringing him back for b-sides. Plenty of those songs could have ended up on Stand Up or BW and they didn't. The band has zero track record of taking material that is 6-8 years old and putting it on a studio record after bypassing two others.

Halloween?

[jaymas9]

There is so much incorrect about that post^^

In the past Lillywhite worked with old material, including some very old material.

I'm not sure where the whole "B-sides" bullshit came from. #27, Joyride, Cornbread (sorta) were B-sides and will not be recorded. You can probably include Eh Hee too. Putting #40, Sugar Will, Shotgun etc on an album would not be a collection of B-sides. It would be new material from the studio.

We don't know why some old songs weren't on SU or BW, but we do know Dave was in the studio working on Sugar Will AFTER BW was released. Could be that those songs didn't fit on those albums. Let's face it, Hello Again feels out of place on SU. It probably should have gone on BW.

The band does have a history of putting old material on albums, especially with Lillywhite around.For the first two albums Lillywhite worked with the catalog they established live...as a new band. That's to be expected. BTCS...beside Halloween, it was new songs. Don't give me leave me praying or Don't burn the pig. The finished versions are completely different songs. They were ideas that turned into songs. Name me once instance that a song near complete (like Crazy Easy, Sugar Will, Shotgun) has appeared on a dmb record 6 to 8 years after it debuted. I'm pretty sure it's never happened. That's not to say Sugar Will or Shotgun couldn't appear ( I wouldn't mind it) but to think we'll have an album consisting of mostly old material is pretty ridiculous.

[jaymas9]

Halloween?So once....that's a track record all of a sudden? And Halloween debuted in 92, and BTCS was recorded in 97, released in 98...so if we wanna get real technical that's 5 years.

[vklugf]

Because I'm looking at the facts. Most people think it's b-sides because there's this notion they rushed, and took no time. But the reality is, if you know about the recording process, this was a very normal time frame, and similar to how Lillywhite structured things in the past. They aren't bringing him back for b-sides. Plenty of those songs could have ended up on Stand Up or BW and they didn't. The band has zero track record of taking material that is 6-8 years old and putting it on a studio record after bypassing two others.

These are not facts. This is a normal time frame, yes, but it doesn't mean that you can guarantee that they didn't enter the studio to record songs they already played live. There's no way to guarantee that, it's just your educated guess.

You don't know if they are bringing him back for b-sides. Again, it's your opinion, not a fact.

And saying that "The band has zero track record of taking material that is 6-8 years old and putting it on a studio record after bypassing two others" is not true. #36 took 7 years to become Everyday. Two Step took 4 years of live playing to finally be recorded in studio. Tripping Billies took 5. Pig 3. That to name a few. I know it's not exactly skipping 2 albums, but it's easier to skip 2 albums when you have a giant list of releases, so it's not a fair comparison with anything they've done on the past with Lillywhite.

DMB has no history of recording with Lillywhite since 2000. So we have no idea if they will do things the same way they did 12 years ago, or if they will keep doing things the way they've been doing post-LW, or if it will be a totally new approach. It may be a full album of new songs, it may be a full album of live-not-live songs. Who knows?

I believe this will be a half-and-half type of album. But I have no clue, it's just a guess. We will have to wait and see. Very interesting times to be a fan, for sure! :)

[jaymas9]

There is so much incorrect about that post^^

In the past Lillywhite worked with old material, including some very old material.

I'm not sure where the whole "B-sides" bullshit came from. #27, Joyride, Cornbread (sorta) were B-sides and will not be recorded. You can probably include Eh Hee too. Putting #40, Sugar Will, Shotgun etc on an album would not be a collection of B-sides. It would be new material from the studio.

We don't know why some old songs weren't on SU or BW, but we do know Dave was in the studio working on Sugar Will AFTER BW was released. Could be that those songs didn't fit on those albums. Let's face it, Hello Again feels out of place on SU. It probably should have gone on BW.

The band does have a history of putting old material on albums, especially with Lillywhite around.Except it doesn't...Lillywhite wanted to produce them after hearing their catalog live...that's what he fell in love with, of course that's what he worked with the first two records. When all that was covered...we got new songs...all the time. And none of it has ever happened in the 6 to 8 year time frame like I said. Not to mention...none of those songs are as good as the songs he worked with in the beginning as well. That definitely plays a factor.

[pickdog]

We go through this everytime a new album is about to come out. They will be all new songs. If they dont record them right away, they never will.

[jaymas9]

These are not facts. This is a normal time frame, yes, but it doesn't mean that you can guarantee that they didn't enter the studio to record songs they already played live. There's no way to guarantee that, it's just your educated guess.

You don't know if they are bringing him back for b-sides. Again, it's your opinion, not a fact.

And saying that "The band has zero track record of taking material that is 6-8 years old and putting it on a studio record after bypassing two others" is not true. #36 took 7 years to become Everyday. Two Step took 4 years of live playing to finally be recorded in studio. Tripping Billies took 5. Pig 3. That to name a few. I know it's not exactly skipping 2 albums, but it's easier to skip 2 albums when you have a giant list of releases, so it's not a fair comparison with anything they've done on the past with Lillywhite.

DMB has no history of recording with Lillywhite since 2000. So we have no idea if they will do things the same way they did 12 years ago, or if they will keep doing things the way they've been doing post-LW, or if it will be a totally new approach. It may be a full album of new songs, it may be a full album of live-not-live songs. Who knows?

I believe this will be a half-and-half type of album. But I have no clue, it's just a guess. We will have to wait and see. Very interesting times to be a fan, for sure! :)I don't care what you call it, my opinion then is...I guarantee this will not be mostly old material, or half and half. They did not agree to use Steve Lillywhite again to record a bunch of nearly finished material. So unless the ideas to those nearly finished songs are turned into something different, I just don't see how this is happening.

[jaymas9]

We go through this everytime a new album is about to come out. They will be all new songs. If they dont record them right away, they never will.Yea, I don't see how people don't see this. It's not just a track record with Lillywhite, it's the band's recent track record as well. Why people think they would just throw their MO away all of a sudden is a mystery to me. Plus honestly...who wants average to above average old material when they were in the studio with Lillywhite? I sure as hell don't.

[scout929]

To heck with old material, I'm sure we'll be getting mostly new stuff, they're not geriatric!:cool

[Julia Roberts]

Except it doesn't...Lillywhite wanted to produce them after hearing their catalog live...that's what he fell in love with, of course that's what he worked with the first two records. When all that was covered...we got new songs...all the time. And none of it has ever happened in the 6 to 8 year time frame like I said. Not to mention...none of those songs are as good as the songs he worked with in the beginning as well. That definitely plays a factor.

What are you talking about? All 4 times that Lilywhite worked with the band he delved into their unreleased material. Now, for the first time ever, he has 10+ years of material to comb through. You're nuts if you think he will ignore that.

And yes, sometimes he did go back 6 years for songs.

[jaymas9]

What are you talking about? All 4 times that Lilywhite worked with the band he delved into their unreleased material. Now, for the first time ever, he has 10+ years of material to comb through. You're nuts if you think he will ignore that.

And yes, sometimes he did go back 6 years for songs.Seriously? Beside the first two albums (which don't even count, because they were a new band, he became their producer after hearing their catalog, produces those songs and because no producer produces a band for their first album without a catalog already...you have to go in with stuff the first time you do it) when did he dedicate an entire album to their unreleased material? He used one complete song between tLWS and BTCS (Halloween), that's it. He took two ideas in dont burn the pig and leave me praying, and helped turn them into completely different songs. So liberally speaking he did it for 3 songs on one of two albums...and I'm supposed to believe we have evidence to support we'll get an album of almost finished material we've heard before?

Tell me you see how this makes no sense. Not to mention, the last time he worked with the band...it was all new material, he has never (outside of the first two albums), just recorded and tweaked near finished/finished songs...it has never happened. And that is still not mentioning the fact that....the band themselves has not done this the last two albums they have made, and in fact ignored their already finished songs for all new material...there's no reason to think that would change either, and that behavior is more recent.

Essentially, there is so much more evidence to support the fact this will be mostly new material versus mostly old.

[Julia Roberts]

The first albums absolutely count. After 12 years of layoff it's almost like their a new band to Lillywhite again.

Anyway:
Help Myself 92 (became a actual B-side for BTCS)
Halloween 92
Bartender 92
Grace Is Gone 92
Rapunzel 94
Pig 95
Raven 95
Don't Drink the Water 96
Captain 96

[TMoore4075]

Bartender, Grace is Gone 92?

[Julia Roberts]

http://antsmarching.org/tour/songtourfull.php

You could argue it with Jake. Maybe Jake's wrong.
And I could be wrong but I thought Kind Intentions became Bartender. But now that I listen to KI again I don't hear Bartender.

[TMoore4075]

Yeah I don't hear it. Grace is Gone I'm almost 100% sure was during the Summer So Far sessions. Bartender was what some were calling #58 or Reconcile our Differences being played D&T as an intro to DDTW in early 99.

[brobb]

Seriously? Beside the first two albums (which don't even count, because they were a new band, he became their producer after hearing their catalog, produces those songs and because no producer produces a band for their first album without a catalog already...you have to go in with stuff the first time you do it) when did he dedicate an entire album to their unreleased material? He used one complete song between tLWS and BTCS (Halloween), that's it. He took two ideas in dont burn the pig and leave me praying, and helped turn them into completely different songs. So liberally speaking he did it for 3 songs on one of two albums...and I'm supposed to believe we have evidence to support we'll get an album of almost finished material we've heard before?

Tell me you see how this makes no sense. Not to mention, the last time he worked with the band...it was all new material, he has never (outside of the first two albums), just recorded and tweaked near finished/finished songs...it has never happened. And that is still not mentioning the fact that....the band themselves has not done this the last two albums they have made, and in fact ignored their already finished songs for all new material...there's no reason to think that would change either, and that behavior is more recent.

Essentially, there is so much more evidence to support the fact this will be mostly new material versus mostly old.

Personally, I hope the album is mostly new material, but I can hardly say there isn't a chance that they worked on a lot of the old/new material that has yet to make it on an official studio album. Right now, the band's unrecorded catalogue is about as big or bigger than what Lillywhite came across when he first started working with the band. We have no idea how he feels about these songs. Maybe he loves them, maybe he doesn't. But the difference here is that by the time they got to the LWS, most of the songs they hadn't recorded were obsolete. This time around there are a ton of songs the band likes to play that aren't on an album, which is a little unusual for how many there are.

So, as much as I'd like all new material, it just seems a little ridiculous to say there's NO WAY that the band could be aiming to release a ton of material they've been sitting on, especially with the guidance of Steve Lillywhite.

[TMoore4075]

Personally, I hope the album is mostly new material, but I can hardly say there isn't a chance that they worked on a lot of the old/new material that has yet to make it on an official studio album. Right now, the band's unrecorded catalogue is about as big or bigger than what Lillywhite came across when he first started working with the band. We have no idea how he feels about these songs. Maybe he loves them, maybe he doesn't. But the difference here is that by the time they got to the LWS, most of the songs they hadn't recorded were obsolete. This time around there are a ton of songs the band likes to play that aren't on an album, which is a little unusual for how many there are.

So, as much as I'd like all new material, it just seems a little ridiculous to say there's NO WAY that the band could be aiming to release a ton of material they've been sitting on, especially with the guidance of Steve Lillywhite.
I think it'll be a lot of new mixed with a few that were reworked that's just an idea. Anyone here who thinks they know they don't. But I am of the mind that I can't see them bringing back Steve to just help rework songs that they wrote with someone else. It would seem wasted to me.

[ERoths711]

I would. Track 12. :lol

But I get your point.

I was at Citi Field Night 2. They began playing this song that sounded like it had so much promise. It was stellar. I went home that night to find out that it was new and called "Black Jack."

A week later it resurfaced with the rest of the song, and I was thoroughly disappointed.

It would be far better with real lyrics and even better if they stuck with the intro and elaborated on that.

[TMoore4075]

I was at Citi Field Night 2. They began playing this song that sounded like it had so much promise. It was stellar. I went home that night to find out that it was new and called "Black Jack."

A week later it resurfaced with the rest of the song, and I was thoroughly disappointed.

It would be far better with real lyrics and even better if they stuck with the intro and elaborated on that.

I can agree with this. IMO, the song got worse as it evolved. The earlier versions I thought had promise.

[jaymas9]

http://antsmarching.org/tour/songtourfull.php

You could argue it with Jake. Maybe Jake's wrong.
And I could be wrong but I thought Kind Intentions became Bartender. But now that I listen to KI again I don't hear Bartender.This is completely different than taking near finished songs and making an entire album with them which is what a lot of people think are happening. Small ideas/parts that got into other songs or became a bit of a song...is not the same...at all. Taking the 04 songs, 06 songs, Break For It, Blackjack...and making an album out of them....is not the same thing.

[jaymas9]

Personally, I hope the album is mostly new material, but I can hardly say there isn't a chance that they worked on a lot of the old/new material that has yet to make it on an official studio album. Right now, the band's unrecorded catalogue is about as big or bigger than what Lillywhite came across when he first started working with the band. We have no idea how he feels about these songs. Maybe he loves them, maybe he doesn't. But the difference here is that by the time they got to the LWS, most of the songs they hadn't recorded were obsolete. This time around there are a ton of songs the band likes to play that aren't on an album, which is a little unusual for how many there are.

So, as much as I'd like all new material, it just seems a little ridiculous to say there's NO WAY that the band could be aiming to release a ton of material they've been sitting on, especially with the guidance of Steve Lillywhite.I want new material, I know that...I'm just saying...the band itself has not done this...for awhile, why would they change that MO now? They didn't record old music on the last two records, why would I believe they will start now, especially in getting back together with Lillywhite? That's really all I'm trying to say. It's more of a jump to think that yea, they'll record a bunch of finished/almost finished crap even though they haven't done that in a studio in forever, and oh by the way, they brought back the producer they made their best work with to do just that. I think that outcome, is way more of a leap, than all/mostly new songs.

[ERoths711]

I can agree with this. IMO, the song got worse as it evolved. The earlier versions I thought had promise.

I'll go further and say that Citi was the only good version because it only included the intro. The other parts are lame and contrived. Too similar to Corn Bread in structure. Should have stuck with the beginning. It can be fun live, just like corn bread can, but it's not a good song.

[ERoths711]

I think that we all can agree that we at least want Shotgun on the album, and probably also Idea of You and Sugar Will.

Songs I wouldn't mind making the cut as well:

Crazy Easy
Break For It
Break Free

The rest I want to be new.

[Julia Roberts]

But I am of the mind that I can't see them bringing back Steve to just help rework songs that they wrote with someone else. It would seem wasted to me.

I agree. And I can't see any way that happens.