Preseason NCAA Basketball Poll is released [Archive] - Page 10

bdb23

02-13-2005, 07:07 PM

i agree that you don't have to lose to win it all, but i think it makes it easier. being undefeated going into the tournament puts added pressure on a team. while everyone else is just trying to win six games in a row to cut down the nets, you are trying to achieve the impossible. i just think if you take away the pressure of running the table, it makes it easier for your team to sit back and play one game at a time, knowing that their goal isn't greater than the team they're playing. not saying they can't do it, but they'll have more pressure on their team than anyone else. just my 2 cents........
I really don't think that the players on this Illini team are concerned with the whole "undefeated" thing. They haven't let it bother them all season. Their composure is something I haven't seen in college basketball in a long time. Again, I'll take the hard-earned victories over a loss any day.

UNC41

02-13-2005, 10:29 PM

It was nice to see UNC get a win against a quality opponent on the road today. They also needed a tough win that wasn't a blowout by halftime. Glad to see they got both of those today at UConn.

clayj41

02-13-2005, 10:30 PM

It was nice to see UNC get a win against a quality opponent on the road today. They also needed a tough win that wasn't a blowout by halftime. Glad to see they got both of those today at UConn.

Yeah, I was worried at halftime.

UNC41

02-13-2005, 10:33 PM

Yeah, I was worried at halftime.

But now that they've won a game like this you won't be nearly as worried if they get in that situation again this year.

clayj41

02-13-2005, 10:35 PM

But now that they've won a game like this you won't be nearly as worried if they get in that situation again this year.

They did prove they can pull out the close ones.(something I thought they couldn't handle after the Duke game :BANG )

seekupig

02-13-2005, 10:35 PM

bdb23

02-13-2005, 10:39 PM

in recent years
Enough said about that post. Sure history may be a measure of the future, but my understanding of the brackets, history doesn't mean shit come tip off. Everyone gets a clean slate come 3/17.

clayj41

02-13-2005, 10:39 PM

just found this at ESPN.com, another reason Illinois should be a little worried.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------Another warning to Illinois: Being on top of the polls for an extended period of time guarantees nothing. Actually, in recent years, it guarantees a premature tournament exit. The Illini will be No. 1 Monday for the 11th week this season. The last three teams to be No. 1 for more than 10 weeks in a season not only failed to win the national title, they failed to make the Final Four. The list:

Arizona 2003 (28) was No. 1 for 13 weeks but lost in a regional final to Kansas. Duke 2002 (29) was No. 1 for 14 weeks but lost in a regional semifinal to Indiana. Cincinnati 2000 (30) was No. 1 for 12 weeks but lost in the second round to Tulsa.

I'm getting tired of hearing people rip on the Illini for not losing a game and being such a dominant team. Who cares if historically they are not favored. They can only worry about themselves and play each game to the best of their abilities. If they lose, they lose. If they don't win it all, it's not because they were ranked #1 for so long, it's because some team was actually better than them on that day.

ousooner

02-13-2005, 10:42 PM

just found this at ESPN.com, another reason Illinois should be a little worried.....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------Another warning to Illinois: Being on top of the polls for an extended period of time guarantees nothing. Actually, in recent years, it guarantees a premature tournament exit. The Illini will be No. 1 Monday for the 11th week this season. The last three teams to be No. 1 for more than 10 weeks in a season not only failed to win the national title, they failed to make the Final Four. The list:

Arizona 2003 (28) was No. 1 for 13 weeks but lost in a regional final to Kansas. Duke 2002 (29) was No. 1 for 14 weeks but lost in a regional semifinal to Indiana. Cincinnati 2000 (30) was No. 1 for 12 weeks but lost in the second round to Tulsa.

The Cincy team of 2000 doesn't count. Kenyon Martin broke his ankle prior to the tournament.

bdb23

02-13-2005, 10:44 PM

I'm getting tired of hearing people rip on the Illini for not losing a game and being such a dominant team. Who cares if historically they are not favored. They can only worry about themselves and play each game to the best of their abilities. If they lose, they lose. If they don't win it all, it's not because they were ranked #1 for so long, it's because some team was actually better than them on that day.
:thumbsup :thumbsup

seekupig

02-13-2005, 10:47 PM

Enough said about that post. Sure history may be a measure of the future, but my understanding of the brackets, history doesn't mean shit come tip off. Everyone gets a clean slate come 3/17.

Illinois 2005 = St. Joe's 2004

Great guard play, suspect front- line, average conference, early exit.;)

i'm just giving you a hard time, man. if they weren't the only undefeated team left and the only team ranked in front of my boys i'd be looking to take someone else down a notch. seems as if all of the other schools are doing that on their own, though.

ousooner

02-13-2005, 10:49 PM

In my opinion, it's not whether you go undefeated or lose a game before the tournament, it's whether or not a team peaks to soon. To win the tournament a team has to peak at just the right time and play it's best basketball of the season during a six game stretch regardless of how many losses they have or don't have. Seekup, see the 1988 Kansas Jayhawks
:twak .

seekupig

02-13-2005, 10:50 PM

The Cincy team of 2000 doesn't count. Kenyon Martin broke his ankle prior to the tournament.

then the KU/ Syracuse national title game doesn't count. Wayne Simien was out with an injury. WOO HOO, 2003 National Champs!

excuse the sarcasm, but not playing at full strength doesn't make a game not count.

clayj41

02-13-2005, 10:50 PM

Illinois 2005 = St. Joe's 2004

Great guard play, suspect front- line, average conference, early exit.;)

i'm just giving you a hard time, man. if they weren't the only undefeated team left and the only team ranked in front of my boys i'd be looking to take someone else down a notch. seems as if all of the other schools are doing that on their own, though.

I can't believe you just compared Illinois to last year's St. Joe's team.

bdb23

02-13-2005, 10:54 PM

i'm just giving you a hard time, man. if they weren't the only undefeated team left and the only team ranked in front of my boys i'd be looking to take someone else down a notch. seems as if all of the other schools are doing that on their own, though.
I understand. Being on top has its disadvantages, too. But so far it's been a sweet view from up here.

ousooner

02-13-2005, 10:54 PM

then the KU/ Syracuse national title game doesn't count. Wayne Simien was out with an injury. WOO HOO, 2003 National Champs!

excuse the sarcasm, but not playing at full strength doesn't make a game not count.

My point was that stat means nothing if the main reason they were #1 for 12 weeks is out with a severely broken ankle. Kenyon Martin was the most dominant player in the country that year and the #1 pick in the draft. If you remember, there was a lot of talk about the committee not even giving Cincy a #1 seed in the tournament because of his injury. That tells you how important he was to that team. I watched him come into Norman that season and single handedly whip our ass.

seekupig

02-13-2005, 10:55 PM

I can't believe you just compared Illinois to last year's St. Joe's team.

it was a joke, note the ;) at the end of my "comparison"

clayj41

02-13-2005, 10:57 PM

it was a joke, note the ;) at the end of my "comparison"

Sorry, didn't see the ;) .

seekupig

02-13-2005, 10:58 PM

But so far it's been a sweet view from up here.

trust me, i know. the only thing i remember from all of those season is how hard the fall is when you come up short to unrealistic expectations. i hope you don't have to deal with it (unless you meet KU in the Final Four :D )

unccrombie

02-13-2005, 11:34 PM

seekupig

02-13-2005, 11:48 PM

it seems to have with carolina :lol :(

we're talking about tournament games, not games against JV squads with losing records.........:D "LET'S GO BRONCOS, *clap...clap...clap-clap-clap*"

unccrombie

02-13-2005, 11:55 PM

we're talking about tournament games, not games against JV squads with losing records.........:D "LET'S GO BRONCOS, *clap...clap...clap-clap-clap*"
:lol i'll let that one slide.....for now

either way you spin it, if wayne played that game you KNOW things could have swung the other way. not saying it's a deffinite win, but that's just the hard road of sports. DONT GET HURT

EatSleepJeep

02-13-2005, 11:55 PM

wouldn't have been a tech, thats pushin it

Flagrant? maybe.
Intentional? absolutely.

But since that Zebra Squad was apparently watching a different game or working off a hangover/jet lag we'll never know. The bad calls went both ways, but that's no excuse for making bad calls to begin with.

Oh, and nothing will stop the Illini this year, unless they get over-confident. Which doesn't seem to be an issue so far. They systematically deconstruct defenses as second nature, plus they just have a major synergy when playing, it's a great team. I stress team.

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 10:38 AM

intentional yes, but it was retaliation. at most it would have been a double foul, if anything

twosteppn36

02-14-2005, 10:42 AM

attention fans:

please do not rush the court 3 times tonight

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 11:05 AM

attention fans:

please do not rush the court 3 times tonight

They shouldn't. At least the student's shouldn't. They didn't when we beat Notre Dame, which was a more important game. Only a few locals did, and even some of them got thrown on their asses by the cops.

- Matt

twosteppn36

02-14-2005, 11:06 AM

it was a joke.

EatSleepJeep

02-14-2005, 11:11 AM

intentional yes, but it was retaliation. at most it would have been a double foul, if anything

Retaliation is the worst kind of foul.

Ask any hockey player.

It's all in the past now. UNC better look out for when they meet the mighty Golden Gophers in the tournament, I smell an upset:lol

seekupig

02-14-2005, 11:39 AM

Oh, and nothing will stop the Illini this year, unless they get over-confident. Which doesn't seem to be an issue so far. They systematically deconstruct defenses as second nature, plus they just have a major synergy when playing, it's a great team. I stress team.

that may be pushing it a little bit. yes, they are a great team, but to say that nothing will stop them is a bit much. they'll probably be the favorites going in, but i still believe that there are a handfull of teams (not many) that can beat them on a neutral court. i think they'd have the most trouble with a team that can run a good zone defense, and has a good high-low game on offense to expose the Illinois big men for what they are: average. reguardless of how it all plays out, i'm looking forward to this tournament more than i ever have.

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 11:50 AM

it was a joke.

Yeah, but I got to see this mean looking cop just completely assault this guy. I mean the cop practically punched the guy in the face.

- Matt

seekupig

02-14-2005, 12:36 PM

bustdstuff

02-14-2005, 12:49 PM

trust me, i know. the only thing i remember from all of those season is how hard the fall is when you come up short to unrealistic expectations. i hope you don't have to deal with it (unless you meet KU in the Final Four :D )

Hola all. I haven't been around my computer so here I am. First I almost want Illinois to win it all because man that fall from where they are to losing in the tourney makes you want to lock yourself in your room for the rest of the weekend and not pickup the phone. Second I love watching other teams go to OT, but when it's my team there's nothing that will give me a new ulcer quicker. Especially with guys already sitting on the bench because of fouls. What a week. Total high beating UNC to being swept by a freaking turtle!!!!!!! Oh welll I guess they're gonna have to go down in the conference tourney. :shrug

watchtower41

02-14-2005, 01:04 PM

since the AP won't be out for a few hours, figured i'd post the new RPI poll with S.O.S.'s. Seems the further the season goes, the more accurate this poll gets. It's not perfect yet (Illinois should be #1) but it's getting there......

1. Kansas (1)
2. Illinoios (54)
3. Wake Forest (12)
4. Oklahoma St. (9)
5. Duke (10)
6. Boston College (61)
7. UNC (30)
8. Arizona (22)
9. Washington (29)
10. Kentucky (72)
11. Syracuse (79)

I think the guy that runs the RPI already calculated the rest of the regualr season out and unless KU loses a game to a horrible team, I dont think its possible for the Illini to get that top spot because of their SOS. Granted, its not their fault that the Big X is a very average conference, but squeezed into their non-conferecne tilts with Wake's and Gonzaga's there are those games with Longwood, Northwestern St, and Florida A&M. I could be wrong, but I think I heard...maybe in the same report that no No.1 team has has such a low SOS.

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 01:09 PM

I think the guy that runs the RPI already calculated the rest of the regualr season out and unless KU loses a game to a horrible team, I dont think its possible for the Illini to get that top spot because of their SOS.

I know the guy who runs the daily RPI calculations for Joe Lunardi.

- Matt

seekupig

02-14-2005, 01:17 PM

I know the guy who runs the daily RPI calculations for Joe Lunardi.

- Matt

tell him to keep up the good work.:D

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 01:20 PM

get back to me on those tickets when you get a chance

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 01:24 PM

get back to me on those tickets when you get a chance

I forgot to ask my parents what their deal was over the weekend. Send me an IM. TobySU03. I'll be sure and ask when I get home from work.

- Matt

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 01:36 PM

alright, ill be home around 3:45

seekupig

02-14-2005, 01:58 PM

couple of good ESPN games tonite.........

Pittsburgh @ Syracuse
Kansas @ Texas Tech (this game scares me)

I hate when Kansas plays at 9:00 on Mondays, i'm forced to check the score on commercials until the second half thanks to :24

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 02:03 PM

couple of good ESPN games tonite.........

Just a note, I like the avatar and user title combo. It's very fitting.

- Matt

watchtower41

02-14-2005, 02:04 PM

I hate when Kansas plays at 9:00 on Mondays, i'm forced to check the score on commercials until the second half thanks to :24

Booo! Kiefer can wait.

seekupig

02-14-2005, 02:08 PM

Booo! Kiefer can wait.

i won't have my dvr box back until next week, so i have to watch it live. could be worse, the 24 could start at 10:00, then i'd really be in a bind.

seekupig

02-14-2005, 03:52 PM

New AP poll...............

1. Illinois

2. Kansas

3. Kentucky

4. UNC

5. Wake Forest

6. Boston College

7. Duke

8. Oklahoma St.

9. Syracuse

10. Arizona

UNC41

02-14-2005, 03:55 PM

New AP poll...............

1. Illinois

2. Kansas

3. Kentucky

4. UNC

5. Wake Forest

6. Boston College

7. Duke

8. Oklahoma St.

9. Syracuse

10. Arizona

Looks about right.

seekupig

02-14-2005, 03:57 PM

Looks about right.

i think 1-5 should be......

Illinois
Kansas
Wake Forest
UNC
Kentucky

other than that, it looks about right.

UNC41

02-14-2005, 04:03 PM

i think 1-5 should be......

Illinois
Kansas
Wake Forest
UNC
Kentucky

other than that, it looks about right.

I don't think Kentucky is better than UNC or Wake, but winning nine consecutive games, even though none of the wins were against an impressive opponent, does wonders in the eyes of pollsters.

Edit: I just looked at bracketology and really like that Lunardi put them at a 2 seed although they have less losses than UNC or Wake. I totally agree with that.

merlecakes

02-14-2005, 04:03 PM

Tell me someone has seen this!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5163978164&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I am a big Illini fan, but this is ridiculous. Hilarious, but ridiculous!

bustdstuff

02-14-2005, 04:05 PM

Tell me someone has seen this!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5163978164&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT

I am a big Illini fan, but this is ridiculous. Hilarious, but ridiculous!

I find the practice of buying food off ebay disturbinng. :ugh

seekupig

02-14-2005, 04:12 PM

I find the practice of buying food off ebay disturbinng. :ugh

damn steph, i thought you would have found his calling the "orange krush" better fans than your "cameron crazies" the disturbing part. i've got to admit, i always cheer harder and louder after a couple of McDonald's breakfast burritos hand delivered from the coach.......

bdb23

02-14-2005, 04:13 PM

i've got to admit, i always cheer harder and louder after a couple of McDonald's breakfast burritos hand delivered from the coach.......
:lol :lol

seekupig

02-14-2005, 04:13 PM

I don't think Kentucky is better than UNC or Wake, but winning nine consecutive games, even though none of the wins were against an impressive opponent, does wonders in the eyes of pollsters.

Edit: I just looked at bracketology and really like that Lunardi put them at a 2 seed although they have less losses than UNC or Wake. I totally agree with that.

they've only got 1 impressive win on their entire schedule, and that took a gift from Louisville to get. Kentucky is THE most overrated team in the nation.

UNC41

02-14-2005, 04:14 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

Here's the bracketology link.

UNC41

02-14-2005, 04:15 PM

they've only got 1 impressive win on their entire schedule, and that took a gift from Louisville to get. Kentucky is THE most overrated team in the nation.

:thumbsup

They seem to lack that critical one guy who can step up and be a cutthroat scorer in March.

MRGreySt.YNK

02-14-2005, 04:16 PM

I hope they put SU in the East Bracket.

bustdstuff

02-14-2005, 04:16 PM

damn steph, i thought you would have found his calling the "orange krush" better fans than your "cameron crazies" the disturbing part. i've got to admit, i always cheer harder and louder after a couple of McDonald's breakfast burritos hand delivered from the coach.......

Please. You think I would bother to give that comment one iota of my attention. No college arena would be what it is without the Crazies being their role models for so long, and no one can deny it. :p

P.S. I think I'd rather have a 2 seed if it means staying close to home.

seekupig

02-14-2005, 04:18 PM

I hope they put SU in the East Bracket.

can't happen.

MRGreySt.YNK

02-14-2005, 04:19 PM

can't happen.

Yeah I know. It was joke.

merlecakes

02-14-2005, 04:20 PM

:lol :lol

I thought you would enjoy that!

bdb23

02-14-2005, 04:23 PM

I thought you would enjoy that!
I like the fact that there are no bids. :twak to anyone who bids on this.

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 04:36 PM

so Duke moves up even after the MD loss :devil

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 04:42 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

Here's the bracketology link.
the syracuse bracket just got mad shitty

seekupig

02-14-2005, 04:47 PM

the syracuse bracket just got mad shitty

true, although a Wake/'Nova game in the second round would be pretty interesting.

merlecakes

02-14-2005, 04:55 PM

I like the fact that there are no bids. :twak to anyone who bids on this.

My roomate was down there on Saturday for the game. He went to Bonnie Jeans for a Calzone afterwards. I was jealous, but I got a new Roger Powell shirt out of it.

THE REVEREND!!!!!

bdb23

02-14-2005, 05:08 PM

My roomate was down there on Saturday for the game. He went to Bonnie Jeans for a Calzone afterwards. I was jealous, but I got a new Roger Powell shirt out of it.

THE REVEREND!!!!!
Shitty game for Powell on Saturday, though. He needs to be more consistent.

watchtower41

02-14-2005, 05:10 PM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/bracketology

Here's the bracketology link.

Illinois and GTech in the 2nd round??? Wow. Run the season undefeated, you get the Nat'l Championship runner-up before you can even get a smell of the Sweet 16 as a reward. It's a game I'd like to see....

seekupig

02-14-2005, 05:12 PM

Illinois and GTech in the 2nd round??? Wow. Run the season undefeated, you get the Nat'l Championship runner-up before you can even get a smell of the Sweet 16 as a reward. It's a game I'd like to see....

Tech will probably move up if Elder gets back into form soon and they can end the season on a high note. Would be a tough second round draw for Illinois if it stays the way it is though......

merlecakes

02-14-2005, 05:13 PM

Shitty game for Powell on Saturday, though. He needs to be more consistent.

Definately. He started out completely on fire and has cooled off in the past few weeks. He needs to get hot again during the Big Ten tourney and take that into the NCAA tourney.

bdb23

02-14-2005, 07:46 PM

Coaches Poll...

1 Illinois
2 Kansas
3 Kentucky
4 North Carolina
5 Wake Forest
6 Boston College
7 Oklahoma State
8 Duke
9 Syracuse
10 Michigan State
11 Arizona
12 Louisville
13 Washington
13 Utah
15 Pittsburgh
16 Gonzaga
17 Alabama
18 Connecticut
19 Pacific
20 Wisconsin
21 Cincinnati
22 Oklahoma
23 Charlotte
24 Florida
25 Texas Tech

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 07:57 PM

ND needs some love

watchtower41

02-14-2005, 09:04 PM

19 Pacific

would not want to play this team in the tourney.

ousooner

02-14-2005, 09:11 PM

gbs3769

02-14-2005, 10:54 PM

That blew.

- Matt

unccrombie

02-14-2005, 10:58 PM

truely dissapointing loss for SU

paris72

02-14-2005, 11:44 PM

Go Tech!

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:08 AM

no, they just blew it for now

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:10 AM

god damn keith langford

paris72

02-15-2005, 12:12 AM

KU will take it in OT by 4

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:14 AM

i'll take tech by 1

paris72

02-15-2005, 12:16 AM

I hope you're right

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:17 AM

ok, shhhhhh dont jinx, just watch

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:23 AM

ah here we go again....

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:26 AM

:lol ok i really need sleep, fuckin tech needs to learn to make some FT's and play defense

paris72

02-15-2005, 12:30 AM

Yeah, this is a great example of when free throws can fuck ya.

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:34 AM

tech was double penetrated by them. must feel painful

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:39 AM

ok, ridiculous now. zeno and dora should be kicked off the team for sucking at the line

RJ2kWJ

02-15-2005, 12:40 AM

He WETTED that SHOT!!!!!!

haildmb

02-15-2005, 12:42 AM

what a freakin shot!

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:42 AM

:lol :lol :lol :lol dora you crazy sob i thought i kicked you off the team. you can make a clutch 3 but not a free throw

paris72

02-15-2005, 12:46 AM

HOLY FUCKING SHIT

Good call on the score :thumbsup

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:46 AM

i'll take tech by 1
6-0 run to win in double ot? FUCKIN CRAZY

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 12:47 AM

im hittin the sack, cya, phew

paris72

02-15-2005, 12:48 AM

So Savanah State had a stellar year huh :lorraine :lol

seekupig

02-15-2005, 01:05 AM

that sucked ass. good night.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 09:08 AM

I guess nobody wants that #2 spot. I love watching Bill Self lose, but I hate watching Bobby Knight win. Under the circumstances last night, I'll let Bobby have that one. :D

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 09:11 AM

I guess nobody wants that #2 spot. I love watching Bill Self lose, but I hate watching Bobby Knight win. Under the circumstances last night, I'll let Bobby have that one. :D

Funny, I was having this discussion with my roomate last night. I also love watching Self lose, but I don't know why I am still so bitter towards him. He could never seal the deal. I think they have a way better chance with Weber, but I still like watching Self choke.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 10:37 AM

I also love watching Self lose, but I don't know why I am still so bitter towards him. He could never seal the deal. I think they have a way better chance with Weber, but I still like watching Self choke.

Bill Self at Illinois-

3 seasons
2 Big Ten Regular season titles
1 Big Ten Tournament title
1 Elite Eight (their first time making it that far since 1989)

if that is "never sealing the deal" then your boy Weber is set up for some very unrealistic expectations........

I understand wanting him to lose because he left, but keep in mind that this undefeated season is happening with players he recruited.

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 10:49 AM

Bill Self at Illinois-

3 seasons
2 Big Ten Regular season titles
1 Big Ten Tournament title
1 Elite Eight (their first time making it that far since 1989)

if that is "never sealing the deal" then your boy Weber is set up for some very unrealistic expectations........

I understand wanting him to lose because he left, but keep in mind that this undefeated season is happening with players he recruited.

That is the other side of the argument. But it can also be said that when Self took the team to the Elite Eight, it was not with the players he recruited. Williams is doing great things with a young NC team that he did not recruit. Getting the team there is one thing, taking that team to the next level is another. I think Weber has done a tremendous job stepping in and getting Self's players to buy into a system that they didn't have faith in. Hopefully that will help in his recruitment of future players.

That being said, obviously I am bitter towards Self because he left the program. I don't want Illinois to be this springboard for coaches to get to other jobs. But each year at Illinois, Self's team did worse than the year before.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 10:56 AM

Getting the team there is one thing, taking that team to the next level is another.

what do you really expect out of a coach in three years? here's a question....... if Illinois doesn't win it all this year, does that make Weber a coach that chokes and can't get to the next level?

UNC41

02-15-2005, 11:02 AM

Barring Kentucky losing to one of two teams they shouldn't the Wildcats will be number 2 next week. If anyone actually believes they are one of the two best teams in the nation I feel sorry for you.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 11:14 AM

Barring Kentucky losing to one of two teams they shouldn't the Wildcats will be number 2 next week. If anyone actually believes they are one of the two best teams in the nation I feel sorry for you.

they're the worst team in the top 5. wouldn't be suprised to see them lose at South Carolina tonite, though.

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 11:27 AM

what do you really expect out of a coach in three years? here's a question....... if Illinois doesn't win it all this year, does that make Weber a coach that chokes and can't get to the next level?

I can't speak to what I think he could have done with the current team. He left. And as far as the Illini team this year, IMO anything less than a Final Four appearance would be choking this season.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 11:37 AM

I can't speak to what I think he could have done with the current team. He left. And as far as the Illini team this year, IMO anything less than a Final Four appearance would be choking this season.

If you go into the tournament undefeated, anything less than a National Title will be choking.

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 11:43 AM

If you go into the tournament undefeated, anything less than a National Title will be choking.

IMO.

gbs3769

02-15-2005, 11:45 AM

If you go into the tournament undefeated, anything less than a National Title will be choking.

Agreed.

- Matt

seekupig

02-15-2005, 11:47 AM

IMO.

that's cool, i'm just trying to clarify. you also said that you didn't like Bill Self because he "could never seal the deal." now that i know that your current coach isn't held to the same standards as your former coach it makes sense.;)

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 11:54 AM

that's cool, i'm just trying to clarify. you also said that you didn't like Bill Self because he "could never seal the deal." now that i know that your current coach isn't held to the same standards as your former coach it makes sense.;)

I would have been happy if Self went to the Final Four.

ousooner

02-15-2005, 12:00 PM

Bill Self is a great coach, but I have not cared for him since the way he handled the Tulsa situation a few years ago. They bent over backwards for him, raised a ton of money and gave him more then they could ever afford and then he bolted a year later. I don't fault him for leaving for bigger and better things but he should have just done it in the beginning without bending them over and then leaving them hanging like they did. That program has been in a tailspin since.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 12:02 PM

seekupig

02-15-2005, 12:05 PM

I would have been happy if Self went to the Final Four.

that's fair enough. he did take Illinois to their first Elite Eight in a decade though. he also is the reason your program is in the position it is now. feeling slighted because he left for another program is understandable, but forgetting all of the good things he did and remembering the shortcomings is not.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 12:53 PM

Webber has a whole different system than Self did. Yes, they are Self's players. But this is a completely different way of playing than what they were used to with Self. In that case, I think that the new Brown/Williams/Head/Powell/Augustine are Webber's players.

watchtower41

02-15-2005, 02:04 PM

Since when did Illinois fans have such high hopes and expectations for their basketball team?? Its like you expect Final Four and Championship every year all of sudden out of the blue becuase youre undeafeated now?? You'll have to win one first. The Illini havent been considered an "Elite" team in anyones eyes until this year......Lets be honest here U of I is no Duke, Kansas or Kentucky. Krueger recruited crap at Illinois....I suppose the reason that Frankie Williams and Brian Cook sucked are Self's fault....he's the one who brought in the talent that is there now. If Weber is so damn good, why does he keep losing star recruits to Self?? ***cough*** Julian Wright. Can't balme him to go play for the better coach.

Props to Texas Tech last night... I didnt like the way that game was playing out since the opening tip. I thought Tech had us in regualtion....especially with Giddens horrific decsions and shooting....Langford bails us out. I thought Tech had it wrapped up again in the first OT, Moody bails out with a tip-in. I thought to myself then, well Tech gave it a run and this is where the 'Hawks will prove to be just better....looked that way all way through the 2nd OT...and then the scud missle 3. In hindsight, obviously a risk well worth taking. Texas Tech is a real scrappy bunch...with 3 really good guards, they can make some noise on the dancefloor. Screw Bob Knight.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 02:18 PM

Since when did Illinois fans have such high hopes and expectations for their basketball team?? Its like you expect Final Four and Championship every year all of sudden out of the blue becuase youre undeafeated now?? You'll have to win one first. The Illini havent been considered an "Elite" team in anyones eyes until this year......Lets be honest here U of I is no Duke, Kansas or Kentucky. Krueger recruited crap at Illinois....I suppose the reason that Frankie Williams and Brian Cook sucked are Self's fault....he's the one who brought in the talent that is there now. If Weber is so damn good, why does he keep losing star recruits to Self?? ***cough*** Julian Wright. Can't balme him to go play for the better coach.
:freak I think you're making some HUGE leaps and assumptions there. Having gone there during the mid-90s, I can say that we never expected Final Four showings. As the talent pool started to show up in Champaign, like other schools, we have begun to think that maybe we have something here. Weber will be fine when people start to see what kind of system he has on a national level. It takes all coaches (Self included) time to get the word out on who they are and what they have to offer. Until then, enjoy your loss from last night.

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 02:36 PM

Until then, enjoy your loss from last night.
:haha :haha

clayj41

02-15-2005, 02:40 PM

:haha :haha

:lol :lol :lol

seekupig

02-15-2005, 02:40 PM

Until then, enjoy your loss from last night.

that wasn't nice.:lorraine

seekupig

02-15-2005, 02:47 PM

why is it that so many people seem to get more enjoyment out of seeing other teams losing than they do out of their own teams winning?

(not directed at any one person, just a generalization)

gbs3769

02-15-2005, 03:21 PM

why is it that so many people seem to get more enjoyment out of seeing other teams losing than they do out of their own teams winning?

(not directed at any one person, just a generalization)

Because a lot of times people are expecting these other teams to win and when they don't it's a pretty shocking thing. Either that, or their team isn't very good so they have to have something to cheer about.

But, I'll take a 'Cuse win over UConn any day over a Kansas loss to Texas Tech.

- Matt

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:24 PM

that wasn't nice.:lorraine
Not directed at you. :D

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:26 PM

why is it that so many people seem to get more enjoyment out of seeing other teams losing than they do out of their own teams winning?

(not directed at any one person, just a generalization)

I think that they get so bitter, for whatever reason, that they forget that it's just a game. The fanatical fan in my opion is so wrapped up in their team that they think everything should revolve around that team. You just don't see the loyalty in sports between institutions, coaches, and in the pros the players that used to be. But the fans still show the loyalties more feverish than ever.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:26 PM

Not directed at you. :D

i know, but if i aim a shotgun at someone near you and you get sprayed by a couple of pellets, it's still gonna hurt a little.:D

UNC41

02-15-2005, 03:27 PM

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/quiz?event_id=1179

Good luck. I got an 11.

twosteppn36

02-15-2005, 03:28 PM

why is it that so many people seem to get more enjoyment out of seeing other teams losing than they do out of their own teams winning?

(not directed at any one person, just a generalization)

i enjoy watching higher ranked teams like kansas get beat because most of the season they look unstoppable, but when they get beat, you see their flaws and get excited because you know they can lose

ousooner

02-15-2005, 03:29 PM

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:29 PM

i know, but if i aim a shotgun at someone near you and you get sprayed by a couple of pellets, it's still gonna hurt a little.:D
I hear ya.

BTW, if the Illini lose (big "if" :D), I dread having to return to this thread. :lol

twosteppn36

02-15-2005, 03:30 PM

I hear ya.

BTW, if the Illini lose (big "if" :D), I dread having to return to this thread. :lol

you're goin down! :lol

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:30 PM

i enjoy watching higher ranked teams like kansas get beat because most of the season they look unstoppable, but when they get beat, you see their flaws and get excited because you know they can lose

hell, you more than anyone should know that an unstoppable Kansas team can be beat by a team that gets hot for two weeks.........bastards.;)

twosteppn36

02-15-2005, 03:33 PM

hell, you more than anyone should know that an unstoppable Kansas team can be beat by a team that gets hot for two weeks.........bastards.;)

:lol :lol

that trophy does look good

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:34 PM

I hear ya.

BTW, if the Illini lose (big "if" http://antsmarching.org/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif), I dread having to return to this thread. http://antsmarching.org/forum/images/smilies/lol.gif

i won't say a word.......;)

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:35 PM

i enjoy watching higher ranked teams like kansas get beat because most of the season they look unstoppable, but when they get beat, you see their flaws and get excited because you know they can lose

what kills me is when the media has spent all year building a certain team or teams up on a pedastal then that team gets beat and the media deams them dogs/over rated. that team didn't solicit all the things that beat writer was saying in his/her column, but all of a sudden that writer does a 180 and criticizes a team for losing.http://users.wpi.edu/%7Erobsccr/banghead.gif media sucks!

twosteppn36

02-15-2005, 03:36 PM

what kills me is when the media has spent all year building a certain team or teams up on a pedastal then that team gets beat and the media deams them dogs/over rated. that team didn't solicit all the things that beat writer was saying in his/her column, but all of a sudden that writer does a 180 and criticizes a team for losing.http://users.wpi.edu/%7Erobsccr/banghead.gif media sucks!

you mean like the guy in seekupig's avatar? :lol :lol

someone please shoot him

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:37 PM

you mean like the guy in seekupig's avatar? :lol :lol

someone please shoot him

exactly

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:37 PM

i won't say a word.......;)
Okay. :rolleyes

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 03:38 PM

why is it that so many people seem to get more enjoyment out of seeing other teams losing than they do out of their own teams winning?

(not directed at any one person, just a generalization)

I'd take an Illinois win over a Kansas loss any day. But it is always nice to see the # 2 lose when your team is #1. It creates some space to breathe.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:38 PM

I'd take an Illinois win over a Kansas loss any day. But it is always nice to see the # 2 lose when your team is #1. It creates some space to breathe.
:thumbsup

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:42 PM

would you rather go undefeated through the regular season with all the pressure going into the tourny or have 1 loss?

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 03:42 PM

No one bought the Bruce Weber breakfast burritos :D

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:43 PM

I'd take an Illinois win over a Kansas loss any day. But it is always nice to see the # 2 lose when your team is #1. It creates some space to breathe.

well, you're at the point now where you could lose a game and still retain the #1 ranking.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:44 PM

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/quiz?event_id=1179

Good luck. I got an 11.

12 for me. need to brush up on my mid-major stuff before i fill out my bracket.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:45 PM

would you rather go undefeated through the regular season with all the pressure going into the tourny or have 1 loss?
Undefeated. I said plenty of times that I'll take the "down by 8 in the second half on the road" wins before I take a loss. I think they've learned a lot from those close games.

gbs3769

02-15-2005, 03:46 PM

:lol :lol

that trophy does look good

It's nice to walk past it every game on my way to my seats and just smile.

would you rather go undefeated through the regular season with all the pressure going into the tourny or have 1 loss?

I prefer 30-5, thank you.

- Matt

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:46 PM

well, you're at the point now where you could lose a game and still retain the #1 ranking.
I don't think so. They'd have to drop to #2 at least on principle.

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:47 PM

Kansas won't drop in the rankings will they? They could win this weekend and redeam themselves in the eyes of the voters before the polls come out on Monday.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:47 PM

No one bought the Bruce Weber breakfast burritos :D

i went to taco bell before the KU game last night, but apparently it doesn't help unless it's bought at McDonalds, is stuffed with eggs and sausage, delivered by the coach, and has a "Krush" card to prove authenticty.........

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 03:48 PM

would you rather go undefeated through the regular season with all the pressure going into the tourny or have 1 loss?

If they were to have lost a game this season, I would have wanted it to be the Michigan State at State game or the Wisconsin game. Now that they have gotten past those two, I am pulling for the undefeated season.

UNC41

02-15-2005, 03:49 PM

I don't think so. They'd have to drop to #2 at least on principle.

You would think that, but I couldn't see them dropping.

UNC41

02-15-2005, 03:49 PM

Kansas won't drop in the rankings will they? They could win this weekend and redeam themselves in the eyes of the voters before the polls come out on Monday.

They should drop. Third or fourth would be my guess.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 03:50 PM

You would think that, but I couldn't see them dropping.
I hear you, but I think you have to drop even if you shouldn't.

merlecakes

02-15-2005, 03:53 PM

i went to taco bell before the KU game last night, but apparently it doesn't help unless it's bought at McDonalds, is stuffed with eggs and sausage, delivered by the coach, and has a "Krush" card to prove authenticty.........

:D :D

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:54 PM

If they were to have lost a game this season, I would have wanted it to be the Michigan State at State game or the Wisconsin game. Now that they have gotten past those two, I am pulling for the undefeated season.

Even I was kinda glad that you won at Wisconsin, I like seeing those consecutive home streaks go down.

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 03:55 PM

I hear you, but I think you have to drop even if you shouldn't.

But if you lose early in the week and then win on the weekend, most of the voters would have already forgot about the loss. What of a done for me lately....

seekupig

02-15-2005, 03:59 PM

Kansas won't drop in the rankings will they? They could win this weekend and redeam themselves in the eyes of the voters before the polls come out on Monday.

are you kidding? those a-holes are tripping over themselves to re-vote this weeks poll. they'll drop to at least #4 (unless UK loses tonight which wouldn't suprise me).

Nothing makes voters happier than having UNC as close to the top as possible. three loses? who cares. Santa Clara? that game doesn't count. why not? shut up, it just doesn't.

Kentucky is "quietly rolling along" as the ESPN folks like to put it. It's happening quietly because they haven't played a team ranked in the top 25 in over a month. sure, it's not their fault they play in a horrible conference, but their games against top non-conference opponents was nothing to brag about.

Lost @ UNC by 11
Won at home vs. Louisville by 2
Lost at home to Kansas by 6 (without Wayne Simien)

IF they beat Alabama later in the season, they could possible get a #1 seed and be ranked #2 in the nation after going .500 against the top 25. take a bow, 'Cats, you've earned it.:rolleyes

UNC41

02-15-2005, 04:02 PM

are you kidding? those a-holes are tripping over themselves to re-vote this weeks poll. they'll drop to at least #4 (unless UK loses tonight which wouldn't suprise me).

Nothing makes voters happier than having UNC as close to the top as possible. three loses? who cares. Santa Clara? that game doesn't count. why not? shut up, it just doesn't.

Kentucky is "quietly rolling along" as the ESPN folks like to put it. It's happening quietly because they haven't played a team ranked in the top 25 in over a month. sure, it's not their fault they play in a horrible conference, but their games against top non-conference opponents was nothing to brag about.

Lost @ UNC by 11
Won at home vs. Louisville by 2
Lost at home to Kansas by 6 (without Wayne Simien)

IF they beat Alabama later in the season, they could possible get a #1 seed and be ranked #2 in the nation after going .500 against the top 25. take a bow, 'Cats, you've earned it.:rolleyes

I sense NO bitterness towards UNC or Kentucky... :rolleyes

seekupig

02-15-2005, 04:03 PM

But if you lose early in the week and then win on the weekend, most of the voters would have already forgot about the loss. What of a done for me lately....

voters don't forget about losses that keep them up until midnight (east coast) and make them miss Sportscenter. besides, beating Iowa St. in Lawrence isn't exactly redemption.

jermtheworm

02-15-2005, 04:04 PM

WOW! Didn't mean to unleash that.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 04:07 PM

I sense NO bitterness towards UNC or Kentucky... :rolleyes

Kentucky i just think is over rated. period.

If you live here and you're not a UNC fan, you don't have to look far for reasons to despise them. not to mention that they are a three loss team that is constantly being judged on their talent, not what they've done on the court. not saying that they haven't played really well at points, but they get the benefit of the doubt most teams don't get.

Most Teams - Prove you're good.
UNC- Prove you're not.

UNC41

02-15-2005, 04:18 PM

Kentucky i just think is over rated. period.

If you live here and you're not a UNC fan, you don't have to look far for reasons to despise them. not to mention that they are a three loss team that is constantly being judged on their talent, not what they've done on the court. not saying that they haven't played really well at points, but they get the benefit of the doubt most teams don't get.

Most Teams - Prove you're good.
UNC- Prove you're not.

I'll admit that UNC does get judged on its talent a lot. But when it comes to the polls they are a top 4 team. Two tough losses on the road and one early one that looks very bad on their season. However, there is no doubt in my mind that UNC, Kansas, Illinois, and Wake (in no particular order) are the four best teams in the nation.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 04:25 PM

I'll admit that UNC does get judged on its talent a lot. But when it comes to the polls they are a top 4 team. Two tough losses on the road and one early one that looks very bad on their season. However, there is no doubt in my mind that UNC, Kansas, Illinois, and Wake (in no particular order) are the four best teams in the nation.

i don't think there's a whole lot of debate left as to who the top four teams are (although UK and Duke may disagree with that).

p.s. UNLESS THERE IS A DRASTIC CHANGE OF MIND OR AN INJURY, MARVIN WILLIAMS AND RASHAD McCANTS ARE GONE AFTER THIS YEAR!

bustdstuff

02-15-2005, 04:36 PM

i don't think there's a whole lot of debate left as to who the top four teams are (although UK and Duke may disagree with that).

I would argue it, but it looks like a two seed will get my team closer to home for the first round. (rather than if there were two ACC teams going for a one seed)

seekupig

02-15-2005, 04:42 PM

I would argue it, but it looks like a two seed will get my team closer to home for the first round. (rather than if there were two ACC teams going for a one seed)

As far as Duke goes, I think they're starting five is as good as most. they're short bench was exposed big time in the Maryland game and that will be a problem playing every other day in the tourney, i think.

#2 seed does keep you closer to home, but it may match you up with KU in the regional final in Austin.:)

bustdstuff

02-15-2005, 04:49 PM

As far as Duke goes, I think they're starting five is as good as most. they're short bench was exposed big time in the Maryland game and that will be a problem playing every other day in the tourney, i think.

#2 seed does keep you closer to home, but it may match you up with KU in the regional final in Austin.:)

Foul trouble is going to be an issue for the remainder of the season, but at least I get Love back here soon. He'll be a great addition just before the ACC tourney. And, after what happened at Maryland I'm sure that the coaches are going to be spending time on the fouls issue, especially with the number of stupid offensive fouls that they're taking. I can take getting in to foul trouble on the defensive end of the floor, but taking fouls at the other end is not acceptable.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 04:57 PM

but at least I get Love back here soon. He'll be a great addition just before the ACC tourney.

you mean this guy?

Warning - If you do not wish to witness "The Shaming Of Reggie Love" do not open link...............

http://jodysgarage.com/dook.htm

bdb23

02-15-2005, 05:01 PM

you mean this guy?

Warning - If you do not wish to witness "The Shaming Of Reggie Love" do not open link...............

http://jodysgarage.com/dook.htm
:lol :lol

UNC41

02-15-2005, 05:09 PM

i don't think there's a whole lot of debate left as to who the top four teams are (although UK and Duke may disagree with that).

p.s. UNLESS THERE IS A DRASTIC CHANGE OF MIND OR AN INJURY, MARVIN WILLIAMS AND RASHAD McCANTS ARE GONE AFTER THIS YEAR!

I'm guessing that's the news you referred to in the PM yesterday. That actually suprises me a lot because those have been the same two that have been the most adament in saying or hinting publically that they would stay.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 05:15 PM

That actually suprises me a lot because those have been the same two that have been the most adament in saying or hinting publically that they would stay.

doing they're best not to create a distraction. McCants is more of a team player, but he's still not a Roy player. Williams would have been a lottery pick last year, his stock can do nothing but drop at this point.....

May is 100% staying though, if that helps at all.
Felton is coming back unless they win it all and his stock goes through the roof which is highly unlikely at this point (his stock going up that is)

UNC41

02-15-2005, 05:21 PM

doing they're best not to create a distraction. McCants is more of a team player, but he's still not a Roy player. Williams would have been a lottery pick last year, his stock can do nothing but drop at this point.....

May is 100% staying though, if that helps at all.
Felton is coming back unless they win it all and his stock goes through the roof which is highly unlikely at this point (his stock going up that is)

It's always been hard for me to imagine Marvin staying because he's a top 5 pick if he leaves, but the articles that I've read gave me hope. Draftcity.com has him going #2 right now and for the longest time nbadraft.net had him going #1, but they put him in the 2006 draft as of yesterday. All I know is that while unlikely, I hope he stays.

From what I get from those two sites I referenced above Felton would be a top 10 pick. I'd really love another year out of him though. McCants hasn't been to his potential recently, so I'm wondering where his stock is at right now. I've always figured May would stay.

From a realistic perspective I'd be happy to keep two out of those four.

bustdstuff

02-15-2005, 05:26 PM

you mean this guy?

Warning - If you do not wish to witness "The Shaming Of Reggie Love" do not open link...............

http://jodysgarage.com/dook.htm

Yeah yeah yeah. We've all seen the pictures. However you can't deny that the kid can play ball.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 05:30 PM

It's always been hard for me to imagine Marvin staying because he's a top 5 pick if he leaves, but the articles that I've read gave me hope. Draftcity.com has him going #2 right now and for the longest time nbadraft.net had him going #1, but they put him in the 2006 draft as of yesterday. All I know is that while unlikely, I hope he stays.

From what I get from those two sites I referenced above Felton would be a top 10 pick. I'd really love another year out of him though. McCants hasn't been to his potential recently, so I'm wondering where his stock is at right now. I've always figured May would stay.

From a realistic perspective I'd be happy to keep two out of those four.

McCants can be a head case at times. But, in his defense, his game is more suited for the NBA than it is for a Roy Williams coached team.

May and Felton will be back, so there's your two out of four. and Marvin or Rashad may change their mind.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 05:32 PM

the kid can play ball.
Looks like he was playing with balls. :lol

seekupig

02-15-2005, 05:45 PM

Yeah yeah yeah. We've all seen the pictures. However you can't deny that the kid can play ball.

yeah, he can play. but everytime he's on the court i'm not going to be able to help but think, "damn, that guy had someone else's nuts on his forehead."

bustdstuff

02-15-2005, 05:55 PM

yeah, he can play. but everytime he's on the court i'm not going to be able to help but think, "damn, that guy had someone else's nuts on his forehead."

And you've never passed out at a party onlt to not remember what happened when you woke up?

seekupig

02-15-2005, 06:12 PM

And you've never passed out at a party onlt to not remember what happened when you woke up?
Oh, plenty of times, but i'm a big fan of rule #4............. I don't go to random parties by myself where i know i'm not liked and expect good things to happen when i pass out.

1. Don't get drunk two weeks before the ACC tournament.

2. Definitely, don't go to Chapel Hill and get drunk in a
fraternity house.

3. If you do get drunk in a UNC fraternity house two weeks
before the ACC tournament, do not pass out in the basement of the
fraternity house.

4. If you fail to follow steps 1 through 3, make sure
you bring someone to look out for you.

5. MOST IMPORTANT: If you fail to follow all four of these
steps, try to wake up when you feel nuts in your face.

watchtower41

02-15-2005, 06:27 PM

:freak I think you're making some HUGE leaps and assumptions there. Having gone there during the mid-90s, I can say that we never expected Final Four showings. As the talent pool started to show up in Champaign, like other schools, we have begun to think that maybe we have something here. Weber will be fine when people start to see what kind of system he has on a national level. It takes all coaches (Self included) time to get the word out on who they are and what they have to offer. Until then, enjoy your loss from last night.

Ok, I wasnt really responding to your post either, I agree with most everything you said in your post.... I was responding to an earlier post that expected Self to take the Illini to a Final Four in prior years...and also saying it would be considered a choke and a huge disappointment if you didnt win it all this year. I dont care if the Illini won every game by 50, to EXPECT Nat'l Titles and Final Fours is INSANE, especially for Illini fans. Living in Illini Nation, everyone is thinking this way this year....like its impossible for them to lose, they may not, but chances are...its gonna happen. Think oif last year when the Illini bowed out to Duke...everyone around here was like WOW, how could such a horrible thing happen?? Duke happened. I'll put it this way.... you think Duke or Kansas would be an underdog going into the Tourney undefeated??? I dont hate the Illini at all, matter of fact, Ive always thought of them as the best tema this year.... do I think they'll win it all? Not a chance.

Thanks, I'll enjoy our loss just fine last night, much better now than in March.
Good Luck scalping those St. Louis tickets

seekupig

02-15-2005, 06:30 PM

Good Luck scalping those St. Louis tickets

:lol

bdb23

02-15-2005, 06:31 PM

Ok, I wasnt really responding to your post either, I agree with most everything you said in your post.... I was responding to an earlier post that expected Self to take the Illini to a Final Four in prior years...and also saying it would be considered a choke and a huge disappointment if you didnt win it all this year. I dont care if the Illini won every game by 50, to EXPECT Nat'l Titles and Final Fours is INSANE, especially for Illini fans. Living in Illini Nation, everyone is thinking this way this year....like its impossible for them to lose, they may not, but chances are...its gonna happen. Think oif last year when the Illini bowed out to Duke...everyone around here was like WOW, how could such a horrible thing happen?? Duke happened. I'll put it this way.... you think Duke or Kansas would be an underdog going into the Tourney undefeated??? I dont hate the Illini at all, matter of fact, Ive always thought of them as the best tema this year.... do I think they'll win it all? Not a chance.

Thanks, I'll enjoy our loss just fine last night, much better now than in March.
Good Luck scalping those St. Louis tickets
;) To each their own.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 06:33 PM

As I said before, it's really easy in here to throw around who isn't going to make it to STL. 4 out of 65 give you all pretty good odds with those predictions.

seekupig

02-15-2005, 06:38 PM

As I said before, it's really easy in here to throw around who isn't going to make it to STL. 4 out of 65 give you all pretty good odds with those predictions.

So is it safe to assume that after months of slinging shit at each other like monkeys in a zoo that we're gonna have an ants tournament bracket? not sure if you all did one on here last year, but you can set them up for free on yahoo once the brackets come out. give everyone a chance to show how smart they are. maybe have every person that enters send the overall winner a show or something. just throwin' ideas around, it's gettin' close.

bdb23

02-15-2005, 06:40 PM

So is it safe to assume that after months of slinging shit at each other like monkeys in a zoo that we're gonna have an ants tournament bracket? not sure if you all did one on here last year, but you can set them up for free on yahoo once the brackets come out. give everyone a chance to show how smart they are. maybe have every person that enters send the overall winner a show or something. just throwin' ideas around, it's gettin' close.
:thumbsup :thumbsup

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 06:57 PM

so how many shows will ya'll be ownin me? :lol

seekupig

02-15-2005, 08:15 PM

could ESPN have found worse basketball games to show tonite if they'd tried? I feel as if i'm being punished for something.........

bustdstuff

02-15-2005, 08:25 PM

UNC41

02-15-2005, 08:29 PM

could ESPN have found worse basketball games to show tonite if they'd tried? I feel as if i'm being punished for something.........

Try and cheer up. You get to watch the third best team in the nation play South Carolina.... :BANG

seekupig

02-15-2005, 08:31 PM

Try and cheer up. You get to watch the third best team in the nation play South Carolina.... :BANG

with that KU loss they're actually just waiting to be 2nd. yet the two teams that will be directly behind them in the polls are the same two teams responsible for both of their losses. i guess that makes sense.:freak

seekupig

02-15-2005, 08:34 PM

That would start the heavy duty shit slinging, something I fully support.

:thumbsup :thumbsup

UNC41

02-15-2005, 08:37 PM

with that KU loss they're actually just waiting to be 2nd. yet the two teams that will be directly behind them in the polls are the same two teams responsible for both of their losses. i guess that makes sense.:freak

Exactly. Which is why I wouldn't complain if Wake was ranked ahead of UNC. All biases aside and here's how I'd probably vote next week if no one else loses.

1. Illinois
2. Wake
3. Kansas
4. UNC
5. Kentucky

seekupig

02-15-2005, 08:40 PM

Exactly. Which is why I wouldn't complain if Wake was ranked ahead of UNC. All biases aside and here's how I'd probably vote next week if no one else loses.

1. Illinois
2. Wake
3. Kansas
4. UNC
5. Kentucky

i'd vote

1. Illinois
2. UNC
3. Kansas
4. Wake Forest
5. Duke

UNC41

02-15-2005, 08:43 PM

i'd vote

1. Illinois
2. UNC
3. Kansas
4. Wake Forest
5. Duke

Well I much prefer how you'd vote. :D

seekupig

02-15-2005, 08:53 PM

Well I much prefer how you'd vote. :D

reasoning......

1. Illinois (no explanation needed)
2. UNC - i'm falling into the ESPN trap here, but when they're on they can't be beat. their problem is when they're not on, can they overcome.
3. Kansas - all around good team, four seniors, still #1 in RPI and SOS after loss last night
4. Wake - they've got good wins, but none on the road. great guards, they'll be a tough out in the tourney if Williams stays out of foul trouble.
5. Duke - lots of questions still, but they've won some big games with no bench. yeah, they got swept by Maryland. every program has that one team that gives you trouble. UNC has Duke, Kansas has Mizzou, Duke has Maryland, that's just the way it is sometimes. They will be another tough out if they can keep foul trouble to a minimum.

Third Floor

02-15-2005, 10:17 PM

reasoning......

2. UNC - i'm falling into the ESPN trap here, but when they're on they can't be beat. their problem is when they're not on, can they overcome.
4. Wake - they've got good wins, but none on the road. great guards, they'll be a tough out in the tourney if Williams stays out of foul trouble.

so beating arizona, new mexico, temple, and cincinatti away from the joel are what?

Davenumber40

02-15-2005, 10:24 PM

Anyone else notice UK has several games ESPN is covering coming up? Now since it's my team people will see how the hype thing works. I think you have to at least say UK is a top 5 team. 19-2 with a loss at UNC and a loss to KU.

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 11:22 PM

so beating arizona, new mexico, temple, and cincinatti away from the joel are what?
shaky vs miami tonight. besides that, losing to a struggling GT team on the road. i'll let the illi loss slide in hindsight, but nothing was bigger at the time. big test vs duke. if wake pulls that out then there's no need to complain

UK down 8 so far ;)

Mickey Carson

02-15-2005, 11:25 PM

man this Kentucky - SC game is great

unccrombie

02-15-2005, 11:28 PM

don't jinx it drew

Mickey Carson

02-15-2005, 11:46 PM

don't jinx it drew
I hope not.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:01 AM

make it 13, knock on wood

Mickey Carson

02-16-2005, 12:19 AM

and they're storming the court...

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:24 AM

I hope the SEC rapes them. The penalities for it went way up this year. I don't mind the loss as long as they learn something for it. They certainly need to refocus.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:24 AM

and the cats show their true colors

Third Floor

02-16-2005, 12:24 AM

shaky vs miami tonight. besides that, losing to a struggling GT team on the road. i'll let the illi loss slide in hindsight, but nothing was bigger at the time. big test vs duke. if wake pulls that out then there's no need to complain

UK down 8 so far ;)
but UNC biggest road win is UConn. and i believe thats the only ranked team theyve beat on the road and thats including maui.
wakes beat multiple ranked teams away from home. to justify wake being shaky on the road, we've tested ourselves on the road more than almost any other school. not to mention wake is #3 in rpi and #10 is SOS, compared to UNC 7 and 30 respectively. wake should be above UNC.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:26 AM

:rolleyes

True SC isn't any Santa Clara. :)
I'll be the first to say we aren't the 2nd best team in the country, but we are in the top 5.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:31 AM

but UNC biggest road win is UConn. and i believe thats the only ranked team theyve beat on the road and thats including maui.
wakes beat multiple ranked teams away from home. to justify wake being shaky on the road, we've tested ourselves on the road more than almost any other school. not to mention wake is #3 in rpi and #10 is SOS, compared to UNC 7 and 30 respectively. wake should be above UNC.
i'm not saying that they shouldn't be. overall wake's a more consistant team. frankly, wake and unc will be #1 seeds anyways barring any further upsets so the polls dont really matter.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:32 AM

True after UK's loss tonight

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:33 AM

I'll be the first to say we aren't the 2nd best team in the country, but we are in the top 5.

wrong.

Illinois - 1-0 vs. top 5
Kansas - 1-0 vs. top 5
Kentucky - 0-2 vs. top 5
UNC - 1-1 vs. top 5
Wake - 1-1 vs. top 5
Duke - 1-1 vs. top 5

which of these teams is not like the others, which of these teams is not the same?

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:33 AM

also, losing at duke is nothing to be ashamed of, except for the fashion it was done in. wake will have a hell of a time themselves. unc has a tough one @ md. but that loss at wake was a bit dissapointing

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:35 AM

ah, our little research gopher, nice

twosteppn36

02-16-2005, 12:37 AM

wrong.

Illinois - 1-0 vs. top 5
Kansas - 1-0 vs. top 5
Kentucky - 0-2 vs. top 5
UNC - 1-1 vs. top 5
Wake - 1-1 vs. top 5
Duke - 1-1 vs. top 5

which of these teams is not like the others, which of these teams is not the same?

illinois?

:lol

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:39 AM

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:40 AM

but UNC biggest road win is UConn. and i believe thats the only ranked team theyve beat on the road and thats including maui.
wakes beat multiple ranked teams away from home. to justify wake being shaky on the road, we've tested ourselves on the road more than almost any other school. not to mention wake is #3 in rpi and #10 is SOS, compared to UNC 7 and 30 respectively. wake should be above UNC.

i don't admit this much, but you've changed my mind. Wake should be ahead of UNC. I just wish they didn't have this stupid one game crap with the expanded schedule in the ACC. I'd love to see Wake at UNC. if Wake wins at Duke this weekend, i'll be a believer. you make good points, my revised top five is as follows......

Illinois
Kansas
Wake
UNC
Duke

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:42 AM

Does it really matter? The 1 seeds will be Illinois, KU, Wake, and UNC.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:43 AM

Duke's lost 3 of their last 6. I think Kentucky is #5 right now.
what's your point. look who they played.

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:44 AM

i don't admit this much, but you've changed my mind. Wake should be ahead of UNC. I just wish they didn't have this stupid one game crap with the expanded schedule in the ACC. I'd love to see Wake at UNC. if Wake wins at Duke this weekend, i'll be a believer. you make good points, my revised top five is as follows......

Illinois
Kansas
Wake
UNC
Duke

Wake has definitely had a hellacious schedule this year, and I too wish they had to play in chapel hill.

I still say Wake wins the national championship :)

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:44 AM

Does it really matter? The 1 seeds will be Illinois, KU, Wake, and UNC.
as long as unc beats md and duke. if they lose to duke i say duke gets #1 even with a loss to WF.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:44 AM

2 loses to Maryland?

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:44 AM

Duke's lost 3 of their last 6. I think Kentucky is #5 right now.

I think you're wrong.

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:45 AM

2 loses to Maryland?

2 losses to maryland is better than any losses to south carolina

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:45 AM

2 loses to Maryland?
you got a problem with MD? they've won the last 3 games vs duke, including the acc tournament

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:45 AM

Duke's lost 3 of their last 6. I think Kentucky is #5 right now.

they've also only lost 3 of their last 18. let's not play with the numbers to help your cause. The 3 games that Duke lost are to much better teams than the one the 'Cats lost to tonite. How can you say they are a number 5 when both chances they've had to play against teams in that tier they've come up short? They got UNC on the road, and lost. They got a Simien-less Kansas at home, and lost. stacking wins in an average at best conference while other teams catch the occasional loss in tough nite to nite competition doesn't make you better than you actually are, it just makes you believe that.

Third Floor

02-16-2005, 12:47 AM

does anyone know what the tie breaker is in the acc? if you think wake loses to duke at duke, and then duke loses to UNC at UNC, theyll all be tied i believe. so what is the tie breaker?

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:47 AM

*sidenote* I'd just like to say this is far and away the most successful thread I've ever created. Thanks guys, I loves college basketball! :)

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:48 AM

does anyone know what the tie breaker is in the acc? if you think wake loses to duke at duke, and then duke loses to UNC at UNC, theyll all be tied i believe. so what is the tie breaker?

honestly I have no idea... record against #4 maybe?

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:48 AM

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:49 AM

does anyone know what the tie breaker is in the acc? if you think wake loses to duke at duke, and then duke loses to UNC at UNC, theyll all be tied i believe. so what is the tie breaker?
there isn't one. shared title, until the conference tournament. if anything you can give it to wake since they have unc in the head to head

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:50 AM

does anyone know what the tie breaker is in the acc? if you think wake loses to duke at duke, and then duke loses to UNC at UNC, theyll all be tied i believe. so what is the tie breaker?

Wake wins, i believe. they'll take the teams combined records against each other, and with Wake winning the only game against UNC that will give them the edge since all of the other series will be split. as far as second goes, i have no fucking idea.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:51 AM

If we're going by one bad loss what about UNC losing to Santa Clara? I'd say one loss at South Carolina is better than 2 to Maryland. It's one thing for a good team to slip up, but I don't think you can slip up twice in almost 2 weeks to the same team.
Anyway this is all moot. UK will get a 2 at best now.
you good sir, need a class in college basketball. carolina is hyped, ergo the clara loss has been discarded whether you like it or not. kentcuky hasn't proven anything all season

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:51 AM

there isn't one. shared title, until the conference tournament. if anything you can give it to wake since they have unc in the head to head

for seeding purposes there has to be a first, second, and third, etc.... that's what makes it a little tricky.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:53 AM

for seeding purposes there has to be a first, second, and third, etc.... that's what makes it a little tricky.
thats why i said if anything give it to wake, or base it on the tournament

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:54 AM

If we're going by one bad loss what about UNC losing to Santa Clara? I'd say one loss at South Carolina is better than 2 to Maryland. It's one thing for a good team to slip up, but I don't think you can slip up twice in almost 2 weeks to the same team.
Anyway this is all moot. UK will get a 2 at best now.

If Kentucky had lost to santa clara the first game of the season, I'd be with you. But alas, UNC lost to santa clara 3 months ago, while the USC loss was tonight.

And I'd hardly say two losses to a recent national/ACC tournament champion, who is, by the way, a fairly bitter rival, constitute a "slip-up," particularly the loss at Maryland.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:54 AM

they've also only lost 3 of their last 18. let's not play with the numbers to help your cause. The 3 games that Duke lost are to much better teams than the one the 'Cats lost to tonite. How can you say they are a number 5 when both chances they've had to play against teams in that tier they've come up short? They got UNC on the road, and lost. They got a Simien-less Kansas at home, and lost. stacking wins in an average at best conference while other teams catch the occasional loss in tough nite to nite competition doesn't make you better than you actually are, it just makes you believe that.

I think you put more weight on the end of the season both for polls and the tournement. As far as the lost tonight, I think it's an occasional loss on a tough night. The SEC isn't the ACC but it's still the 5th best in the country. I consider Illinios, UNC, Wake and KU to be a tier above UK and I think UK and Duke are on the same level: can be great or can be not so great depending on which team shows up.

Nothing against Maryland, but the way they're playing this year a top 5 team shouldn't lose to them twice.

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:54 AM

thats why i said if anything give it to wake, or base it on the tournament

He means seeding in the ACC tourny

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:55 AM

thats why i said if anything give it to wake, or base it on the tournament

i meant seeding in the ACC tournament. 2nd or 3rd could make a big difference this year.......

haildmb

02-16-2005, 12:56 AM

I think you put more weight on the end of the season both for polls and the tournement. As far as the lost tonight, I think it's an occasional loss on a tough night. The SEC isn't the ACC but it's still the 5th best in the country. I consider Illinios, UNC, Wake and KU to be a tier above UK and I think UK and Duke are on the same level: can be great or can be not so great depending on which team shows up.

Nothing against Maryland, but the way they're playing this year a top 5 team shouldn't lose to them twice.

5th best conference in the country, out of 6 power conferences... not a good argument buddy.

dmb1spe

02-16-2005, 12:56 AM

As a lifelong Kentucky fan I can tell you that UK was overranked. There is no way Kentucky was the third best team this season. Going into this year I figured UK would be a 3rd seed... 4th seed at worst. They're still in line for that.

But as a fan I'm glad Uk got the loss... maybe wake them up a little and prove they actually have to play good basketball to win games. Either way, great game for Carolina.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:58 AM

you good sir, need a class in college basketball. carolina is hyped, ergo the clara loss has been discarded whether you like it or not. kentcuky hasn't proven anything all season

I agree the loss shouldn't count for much because every team has their crap night. I think tonight was UK's. Honestly I don't care as long as we get a two seed. Top team going into the tournement for the past two seasons hasn't done shit for us.

unccrombie

02-16-2005, 12:58 AM

i meant seeding in the ACC tournament. 2nd or 3rd could make a big difference this year.......
ah, well how about instead of hurting our heads over it: unc beats duke and wake wins @ duke. simple, eh?

seekupig

02-16-2005, 12:59 AM

I think you put more weight on the end of the season both for polls and the tournement.

that's true if you're playing tough competition at the end of the season. Kentucky isn't. Kentucky shouldn't get rewarded because Duke, UNC, Wake, Kansas, etc.. are playing ranked teams every week.

Davenumber40

02-16-2005, 12:59 AM