Guitar Theory

[Pipsqueak]

Well...a discussion in the "blues riff" thread kind of sparked some theory discussion. Several people seemed interested in going over some theory, so I thought I would just make a new thread of it. I'll post pieces over time. I'm going to treat this as a review for myself....because I am learning too. Keep in mind, a LOT of this information is stuff I've posted before, in other forums, and a lot of it is stuff other people have posted.
I feel it's always good to share the wealth.
We'll start VERY basic (because that's what people asked for) and work our way up. Please feel free to add your $.02, ask questions, and build on the thread. Like I said, I'm learning too!
here goes nuthin'!

Part I:

Once you have the fundamentals of chord construction under your belt, you shouldn't have any trouble from that point on gaining info from other sources.

Here we go....we start simply...master and move on....
We use 12 notes in western music.

# = sharp
b = flat

They're named A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#. G, G#. (by the way, the notes without sharps represent the white keys of a piano - the sharps represent the black keys)

Any note named with a sharp can also be named as a flat. For example A# is also called Bb. C# is also called Db , D# = Eb, F# = Gb, and G# = Ab

Obviously it seems like they could have come up with a simpler naming system - you'll see it all works out nicely, complete with patterns.

Onward.

We call the thin string on your guitar the 1st string and the thickest one the 6th string.

The open strings on a standard tuned guitar represent the notes (from 1st string to 6th string) E B G D A E

Also remember that "up the neck" means "up in pitch"...."down the neck" means "down in pitch"

The notes up the first string would be open = E
1st fret = F
2nd fret = F# (or Gb)
3rd fret = G
4th fret = G# (or Ab)
5th fret = A
6th fret = A# (or Bb)
7th fret = B
8th fret = C
9th fret = C# (Db)
10th fret = D
11th fret = D# (Eb)
12th fret = E again
13th fret = F again, etc....you could keep going

You should name the notes up the other strings making sure the open string matches the 12th fret as a self check. The common error is that people forget that B and C don't have a note between them. Neither do E and F. Again, don't worry, it all works out.

Simple Quiz....I'll put the answers in a different post. Remember...we start slowly and master things as we go along. Nothing you ever learn should be difficult.....nothing. Just one little step more involved than something you've already mastered.




Just name the following notes:

1. 1st string at 15th fret

2. 3rd string at 12th fret

3. 2nd string at 8th fret

4. 5th string at 10th fret

5. 4th string at 5th fret

6. 4th string at 4th fret

7. 6th string at 2nd fret

8. 3rd string at 11th fret

9. 3rd string at 5th fret

10. 4th string at 10th fret



you should work toward learning ALL of the notes on your fretboard.....it is really very easy, and I'll post some tips with the answers in the next post.

[evanhyde]

Nothing you ever learn should be difficult.....nothing. Just one little step more involved than something you've already mastered.




my math class is SO hard. oh well. keep the lessons coming :thumbsup

[Pipsqueak]

Answers to Part I:

Hopefully you got all G's for questions 1-5.

You should have F# (or Gb) for questions 6,7, and 8.

You should have C for questions 9 and 10.


Tips for memorizing notes on the fretboard:

1. download this free "Fretboard Warrior" program if you want a great source for learning your fretboard http://www.francoisbrisson.com/fretboardwarrior/

2. Memorize the E(6th) and A(5th) strings first.

3. At first, only concern yourself with the NATURAL notes.(no sharps or flats) To find a sharp go one fret higher. To find a flat go one fret lower.

4. Once you have the above done, take any spot on the 5th or 6th string and play the note that is 2 STRINGS AND 2 FRETS HIGHER. This will be the SAME note, only pitched an octave higher. By doing this, it will give you all the notes for all the strings EXCEPT the B (2nd) string. The best way to learn the notes on the B string is to memorize them. (I know a more involved way if you're interested.)

5. If you (for some reason) don't want to bother or concern yourself with guitar neck minutae, then I HIGHLY suggest that AT A MINIMUM you learn the notes for the E and A strings. If you don't, let's just say that you'll be sorry.....maybe not today or tomorrow....but someday you'll regret it.

[Pipsqueak]

(still keeping in basic....I'm trying to get most of the fundamentals down quickly tonight because I have the info readily available..)


Part II:

Chords are made from major scales, major scales are made from half and whole steps. So, let's make sure you understand half and whole steps.

To move from one note to an adjacent note (whether up or down in pitch) is called a half step.

For example, if you play the 1st string 5th fret and then the 1st string 6th fret (A then A#) you've moved up a half step. If you played the 1st string 5th fret and then the 1st string 4th fret (A then Ab), you've moved a half step down.

Now, if you move two half steps in one direction, we call it a whole step. So on the guitar, a half step just means move one fret and a whole step means move 2 frets.

For example, if you play 1st string 5th fret and then 1st string 7th fret (A then B) you've moved a whole step up. If you play 1st string 5th fret and then 1st string 3rd fret (A to G), you've moved a whole step down.

Remember - There's no note between B and C, and there's no note between E and F.

QUIZTIME

Just name the note that is:

1. a half step up from G

2. a half step up from B

3. a half step down from E

4. a half step down from F

5. a half step up from C#

6. a whole step up from D

7. a whole step down from F#

8. a whole step up from D#

9. a whole step down from C

10. a whole step above B


got that fretboard memorized yet???
like I said....I highly recommend the Fretboard Warrior.
Do it for 10 minutes a day until you get it down. It WORKS!

(answers to quiz in next post)

[Pipsqueak]

Answers to Part II:





1. G# (or Ab)
2. C
3. Eb (or D#)
4. E
5. D
6. E
7. E
8. F
9. Bb
10. C# or Db



ok, that put an end to my boredom for a while...
now I gotta hit the sack....MORE TOMORROW!

[RetardedMonkey]

I've gotten pretty good at Dave stuff, but beyond that I don't know too much. I want to start writing my own material so music theory would help immensily. Thanks for the lessons! Truly appreciated here. :)

[Pipsqueak]

ok.
Another useful little tool for memorizing the fretboard:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/f/p/fpm108/glw/pictures/lesson4_figure1.jpg

print it out, put it in your wallet and whip it out when you're waiting on a bus, train, drivers license renewal or whatever...
or tape it to the mirror in your bathroom or wherever else you might use it...
EDIT: forgot to say that if you're left-handed, I'm sorry!

sidebar--> There is a company that actually makes "stick-ons" to put on your fretboard that look similar to this. I don't recommend them because you don't really look at the top of your fretboard when you're playing. (I actually look at the side markers) I think it's better to just know the notes.

ONE MORE THING on the Fretboard Warrior program that I forgot to mention that is VERY important. This program has an added benefit. When taking the tests, it will sound-out/play the note that you're trying to guess. This is an awesome thing, because it allows your EARS to work with your brain and your eyes. Before long, you will be able to close your eyes and ONLY listen to the sound the program makes......and yes, you will be able to guess it correctly.
I was shocked that I could do it myself. At first, I could get really close....say, guessing an C instead of a C#. Eventually you will pick up on the subtle differences. After you memorize the fretboard notes, try to do it only by sound.
It's a pretty cool thing. Download it!


I will post more lessons later this evening!

[YknSTONE]

Pipsqueak, Thank man I Downloaded this program last night(only 1.8mb)....goodstuff at first I didnt have a clue what the hell I was doing but I caught on! figured it out.
Thanks!

[cj4258]

Another good trainer (and great website for that matter)...

MusicTheory.net: http://www.musictheory.net/
Guitar Trainer: http://www.musictheory.net/load.php?id=81

[ITakeTwoSteps]

THANK YOU.
I've recently been getting into theory, and even though most of this is stuff i have already learned, it is still very helpful. im sure your lessons will come in handy. once again, thank you so much. :thumbsup

[acmorgan]

Sticky This

[underdog1924]

Sticky This

I second this

[saxman1083]

If you find yourself having trouble remembering major scales there is an easy way to figure them out. They always are in the form...WWHWWWH W's being whole steps and H's being half steps.

C Major:
C--D--E--F--G--A--B--C
W W H W W W H

Just think of playing them in that step pattern.

[Pipsqueak]

If you find yourself having trouble remembering major scales there is an easy way to figure them out. They always are in the form...WWHWWWH W's being whole steps and H's being half steps.

C Major:
C--D--E--F--G--A--B--C
W W H W W W H

Just think of playing them in that step pattern.


Yes!.....and thus we start Part III: (will post it when I get home this evening)

[dmbzosojazz41]

pipsqueek your the man, i just started with my new jazz teacher last week and it being the first lesson he couldnt really give me anything to practice, and this is gonna be good to get away from those crappy pentatonic licks thanks a lot man

[Pipsqueak]

Part III:

Major Scales

Our whole musical system is pretty much derived from the major scale....so here we go. Ask if you've got questions.

We can build a major scale from any one of the 12 notes, so we end up having 12 different possible major scales. To make a major scale, there's a simple formula to follow:

Pick a starting note (we call it the root, or the tonic) and THEN make the following series of whole and half steps:

W W H W W W H

Take note of the fact that all 12 of the major scales will be constructed by the same formula so they're all going to have the same characteristic sound. They'll just sound lower or higher than one another depending on the starting note.


We'll start with the C Major Scale:

Find the note C on your guitar (say 5th string, 3rd fret)

Now make the steps WWHWWWH right up the 5th string.

As far as the frets go you should have:

Start on 3rd fret, whole step to 5th fret, whole step to 7th fret, half step to 8th fret, whole to 10th fret, whole to 12th fret, whole to 14th fret, and finally a half step to the 15th fret which hopefully puts us on the note C again.

The notes we got (confirm) are:

C D E F G A B C

Let's do it beginning on the note F (say, 6th string, first fret). Again, make the steps
WWHWWWH right up the string.

As far as the frets go:

Start on first fret, whole to 3rd fret, whole to 5th fret, half to 6th fret, whole to 8th fret, whole to 10th fret, whole to 12th fret, and finally a half step to the 13th fret.

The notes we got are:

F G A Bb C D E F

You'll see why we sometimes use flats as opposed to sharps soon enough.


Short quiz....

Try to make a G major scale and a D major scale on your own! (use sharps, not flats)

[Pipsqueak]

Answers:

If we start on the note G, we then
move a whole step to A then
W to B then
H to C then
W to D then
W to E then
W to F# then
H to G

G major scale = G A B C D E F# G


To make the D major scale start on the note D and then
W to E then
W to F# then
H to G then
W to A then
W to B then
W to C# then
H to D.

D major scale = D E F# G A B C# D

Anyone out there noticing any patterns concerning the sharps??????

[Pipsqueak]

Continuing.....

If you haven't done so, it's a good idea to write out all the notes for all the keys. REMEMBER....THESE ARE NOTES....NOT CHORDS! (can't stress that enough)

Also, if you didn't figure it out by now....there are 7 notes in each key, the 8th note brings us back to the octave.

Let's talk about Sharps and Flats for a minute...
Did anybody figure out the pattern?

Well, it turns out that they always fall in the SAME ORDER.

The ORDER OF SHARPS can be remembered by the following:
Funky Cows Get Drunk And Eat Breakfast Food

The ORDER OF FLATS can be remembered by the following:
BEAD G

So, for example:
the key of C has no sharps or flats.
the key of G has one sharp------------>F#
the key of D has two sharps----------->F# and C#
the key of A has three sharps---------->F#, C#, and G#
the key of E has four sharps----------->F#, C#, and G#, D#
and so on...(similar for flats)

So....some more info.
The following keys: C G D A and E are the 5 major guitar keys in music. This is easy to remember because they make the word - CAGED. Some of you may have heard about the CAGED system. (I've even posted it before on this forum.) We will go over that later.
So....
Does anyone see anything in common with the CAGED keys?

They all have sharps and no flats.

Quick quiz:
What key is missing from the CAGED system that also has sharps and no flats? :bounce

[Pipsqueak]

Answer to the question above:

the key of B

the key of B has 5 sharps-----> F#, C#, G#, D# and A#

am I losing anybody yet?

coming up, after I eat my dinner.....THE DREADED CIRCLE OF FIFTHS!

(it will be a cakewalk for you....IF you understand everything posted thus far)

stay tuned.....

[Pipsqueak]

The Circle of Fifths:

(can I not plant an image in here anymore?)
http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/f/p/fpm108/glw/pictures/circle.gif

from a xerox I have:
The circle of fifths is a handy tool for finding the sharps and flats in any given major scale. The ability to findthe sharps or flats in a given key quickly is a very important musical skill, so you will find it helpful to memorize the circle of fifths and to learn how to use it.

The left side of the circle lists keys containing flats. The right side lists keys containing sharps. At the top of the circle is the key of C Major which has no sharps or flats. At the bottom of the circle is the key of F# Major and Gb Major which contain 6 sharps or 6 flats respectively.

The numbers inside the circle tell you how many sharps or flats (depending on which side of the circle you are on) a given key contains. For example, on the right side of the circle, the key of G Major has 1 sharp, the key of D Major has 2 sharps, etc. On the left side, the key of F Major has 1 flat, the key of Bb Major has 2 flats, etc.

The circle of fifths will also tell you which notes are sharped or flatted in each key.

For sharp keys, start with the number 1 sharp (F#) and count the required number CLOCKWISE. Thus, the key of E Major has 4 sharps: F#, C#, G#, and D# (funky cows get drunk!)

For flat keys, start with the number 1 flat (Bb) and count the required number COUNTER-CLOCKWISE. The key of Ab, for example, has four flats: Bb, Eb, Ab, and Db (bead!)

now here is a lesson on the circle of fifths a friend of mine did:

The Cycle of Fifths (Circle of Fifths) - more than just a memory device - useful in progressions.....

Recall the C major scale had no sharps. It's notes were C D E F G A B C

What's the 5th note of the C major scale?

I get the note G....hopefully you do.

When we made the G major scale, how many sharps did we get?

G major scale = G A B C D E F# G.

Aha...We got one sharp (take note of where the F# occurs - next to last note of the scale)

Now, what's the 5th note of the G major scale? I get the note D.

How many sharps did we get when we made the D major scale last chapter?

D major scale = D E F# G A B C# D.

Aha...two sharps that time. Note that the D major scale retains the F# of the G major scale, and now we again have a sharp on the next to last note (C#)

Quiz:

What is the root note of the major scale containing three sharps?

Answer: A

Ok...

Well, the fifth note of the D major scale is in fact A. Make an A major scale. Get 3 sharps? You should have

A major scale = A B C# D E F# G# A.

Note we again retained the sharps from the previous scale (the F# and C# of the D major scale). Also, again, the new sharp (G#) came on the next to last note.

The pattern keeps going. Do you remember how odd it seemed when we first named the 12 notes of music back in Part 1? Didn't seem like a very simple way of naming the notes. It hopefully doesn't seem as disorganized now.

The fifth note now would be the note E.
I'll leave that up to you. You could keep going and make the E major scale, then the B major scale. You would continue to use sharps. Instead of doing that though, let's go the other way and follow the.....

Cycle of Fourths.

Go back to the C major scale....no sharps...just C D E F G A B C.

Patterns here if we go by fourths?????

The fourth note is F. When we make a major scale on F (we did it last section...use flats) we get

F major scale = F G A Bb C D E F

Note that we got one flat. Where did it occur? We got the new flat on the 4th note.

Make sure you get that for the F major scale. Recall that there is no note between B and C, nor is there a note between E and F.

Now if we go to the 4th note of the F major scale we have the note Bb. Let's make the Bb major scale. Remember, we still just follow the formula WWHWWWH - that doesn't change.

I get Bb C D Eb F G A Bb. Now, of course you see three flats written there but there are only two DIFFERENT flats, the Bb and the Eb. Notice that in relation to the prior scale, we retained the old flat and the new flat pops up on the 4th note.

The fourth note was Eb. Make the Eb major scale. I get Eb major scale =

Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb

Again, we retained the two old flats and our new flat popped up on the 4th note giving us a total of three DIFFERENT flats.


QUIZ:
You should just confirm you get the following notes for the major scales....if you don't get something ask...

Remember, the formula for making a major scale is...

You pick a root note and then make the following steps

W W H W W W H

Going by 5ths.....

C Major = C D E F G A B C

G Major = G A B C D E F# G

D Major = D E F# G A C# D

A Major = A B C# D E F# G# A

E Major = E F# G# A B C# D# E

B Major = B C# D# E F# G# A# B

F# Major = F# G# A# B C# D# E# F#
(clearly F# major looks awfully messy...it's just as messy if you think of it as Gb major. Note the E#...that's really just the note F...it's customary to not use the same letter name in a scale twice, so, since we already had an F#, we refer to the F as E#)

Remember, no matter how complicated a scale looks,,, ALL major scales have the same exact structure.... WWHWWWH...they all sound exactly alike.
play them on your guitar to help train your ear.

going by 4ths we get....

C Major = C D E F G A B C

F Major = F G A Bb C D E F

Bb Major = Bb C D Eb F G A Bb

Eb Major = Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb

Ab Major = Ab Bb C Db Eb F G Ab

Db Major = Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C Db

Gb Major (which is the same as F# Major)

Gb Major = Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F Gb
(note that Cb is just the note B - we avoid using the letter B twice in the scale)

Don't freak out about trying to memorize things.....just make sure you can MAKE the scales properly....

In general, the vast majority of guitar music "happens" in the keys of C,G,D,A, E and their relative minors (don't concern yourself with relative minors yet). There really isn't as much to remember as you might think.....remember...metal heads learn this stuff....doped up metal heads learn this stuff....it can't be that tough....just make sure you can make the scales on paper and up a single string on your guitar.


light bulbs going off yet? :multi

[Pipsqueak]

so.
I think I'll leave that until tomorrow.
I've got some great stuff to post for tomorrow evening....

whatever you do DON'T GET FRUSTRATED.

use your guitar as a tool when you're reading through this information.

make it FUN. (and practice with that Fretboard Warrior!) :thumbsup

[scoot_14]

Very cool thread, I sure many appreciate this. Awesome job on the lessons man.

[YknSTONE]

Wow...I felt like I was really in class that time!!! back to my "Fretwarrior"

[acmorgan]

i hope this never ends haha

[acmorgan]

i'm cleaning this up into a nice word file as we go, with separate pages for answers, so as this all finishes up one day and pipsqueak gets bored with us "music idiots" i'll send it over the internet to people who want it....

[Pipsqueak]

i'm cleaning this up into a nice word file as we go, with separate pages for answers, so as this all finishes up one day and pipsqueak gets bored with us "music idiots" i'll send it over the internet to people who want it....


I'm posting more tonight as we "speak".....
and if you don't want to waste your time.....I have some/most of it in word files :bounce

more coming in minutes...

[Pipsqueak]

okie dokie....
so we've got all of that Circle of Fifths stuff down?
got all the notes on the fretboard memorized?
yah? good.

I'm going to kick off page 2 with a miniature essay that a friend of mine typed out on "Guitar Do's and Dont's".....This friend is a guitar instructor.
Take what you want of it. It is pretty good and sound advice, just remember it is only one person's opinion. And please, let's not open it up to too much criticism online and in this open forum, since I didn't write it. I don't feel like I should answer to it. I can help you offline if you wish.

Here we go:

By the way, I'm not trying to pass myself off as God's Gift to Guitardom. I'm certainly not. I just hate to see people struggle senselessly with something that should be fun. I've seen first hand what does seem to work and what does not - both for myself and students who have come to me frustrated from other teachers.

Several people mentioned how they got their greatest learning by the "sink or swim" method while playing with others. Undoubtedly, playing with others, or recording yourself and trying to play a second part, or trying to play along in time with a teacher, or practicing ever so objectively with your metronome - anything like that where you are forced to be aware of the beat and not lose it - is where you'll develop most of your ability.

Back to the topic of lessons...

Now, certain advanced players might seek out specialized instruction, of course. Golf pros seek out lessons to improve particular areas of their game. However, they are very very good golfers before they seek specialized help. They've already completely mastered the fundamental basics of being a good player.

Most folks who are in that "Well, I know some chords and licks, I'm pretty good, I think, I'm not sure, my mom thinks I play Dust in the Wind and Stairway to Heaven well, but...I just don't know what I'm doin' man" phase of playing need a thorough drilling in fundamentals.

A short list of things to with a general instructor. Anything else you might be better off doing with friends, from books and videos, or possibly with a well known and very advanced player who excels in some particular area of playing.

Like I said, I'll follow up on these.

1. Basic Ear Training - So important. I didn't realize it existed.

2. Learn to read musical notation and rhythm notation. This is a no-brainer. I'm talking about a minimal amount of reading - not anything on the order of what a classical guitarist could do. I get 16 year old metal heads to do this and they enjoy it. There are good, basic, but modern music reading/CD packs available. If you thought I was correct about Mark Hanson's fingerpicking books, you'll probably think I'm correct about these. Much more to say about this.

3. Learn basic music theory (major scale, intervals, triads, chord formulas, and keys) in conjunction with learning to read music. It essentially happens for free that way (for both your brain and wallet). My students do this with a minimum of their jotting a note or two here and there. I speak musically to them in complete sentences and they learn how to respond in complete sentences and complete thoughts. Easy. Not tough.


Do not, Do Not, DO NOT, oh my goodness DO NOT try to learn the basics of chord theory and construction the following two ways.
A) Go to an instructor with music (say, a magazine like Guitar World Acoustic) whip out your favorite tune and say "How does he know to use these chords together?" Most instructors will in return whip out a sheet of paper and start scrawling in disorganized chicken scratch the entire content of two semesters of a college music theory class. You probably aren't going to get much in the way of learning that way. If by any chance you do, it's going to take 19 lessons to learn what you could have learned in 19 minutes if you had gone about things in a proper way in the first place.

B) Don't try to learn the basics of chord construction while learning to solo over the basic blues progression either. I see so many sad and confused people. The whole idea behind the blues is that dominant chords pop up where they're not "supposed to". Talk about confusion. Good grief.

Both of these ways are a little like the following: You've never played football. You walk out onto an NFL field. As the defensive linemen and linebackers are growling and digging in, the center gets ready to snap you the ball. You then turn to your coach (instructor) and say "Oh, hey, quick, how do you play this game?" You, my friend, are in for a serious whoopin'. It's not sensible.


4. Once you do understand the basics of chord theory you most definitely should look at popular tunes with an instructor to begin understanding harmony. For example - suppose you like such and such a tune. It's going to be filled with chord sequences and progression. Pick one sequence, say F to F/G (F triad with G in the bass) to C. Pick that sucker apart. Milk it for everything it's worth. What chord does F/G really represent? How else can you play it besides the way the tablature shows? If you understand chord construction you should find dozens of ways to play this out with partial chords - and understand them! Can we simply play some intervals? Detune your A string to G and we've got new things. Once you've got a whole new arsenal of ideas, how could 2 guitar parts combine to make it fuller? Intervals, intervals. Slide those intervals about. Last time I checked, there were twelve keys. Start playing this progression every way you can in other keys. But for crying out loud, know, and know well 'nuff to use, your basic theory first. Beware the chicken scratch monsters.

5. Soloing and improvising

Someone who scrawls out a scale and says play "what you feel" is not helping you. Those "learnt the blues from the Devil in a swamp one dark night" instructors might make for good friends, neighbors, jam session buddies - I've got a few of them. But the only way to learn something from them is give them a 12 pack and hang out with them for a few hours. Not once a week for a few minutes.

For soloing practice with an instructor you should work on

Tension and Release

Targeting Notes (chord tones)

Limiting Rhythm to help find chord tones

Limiting Rhythm to "free up" your rhythm

I would also suggest you pick apart Robben Ford's blues instructional stuff with an instructor. He is THE man for sophisticated blues played with feeling and exceptional phrasing.


6. Fingerstyle

For the mechanics of fingerpicking no doubt get Mark Hanson's books

You should definitely seek out someone who actively arranges tunes for solo guitar if you're interested. Books can give you suggestions - but to see a true artist in the creative process is quite a different thing

Some more do's and don'ts...

First, one important thing to remember...If you're taking lessons and enjoying them, please don't get overly swayed by my opinions and go off and dump your instructor because he can't read music or anything else along those lines. That's not my intention at all. I'm trying to offer advice for those who are just starting out and also for those who are kind of stuck and frustrated.
Being stuck at point A, wanting to get to point B, watching others happily and quickly get to point B, and not having a clue as to how to get yourself to point B can get a little maddening!

Anyways, back to more do's and don'ts


7. DO record the lessons on an audio tape and avoid having lesson time get gobbled up with a lot of writing. Do you like what you hear? From your instructor? From yourself?

8. Working on popular tunes - make sure you understand what I wrote in #4 above. Ask if you don't. Other sensible things to work on within tunes might be:

a) Separating the essential from the non-essential (helpful for simplifying if your in over your head)

b) clapping out rhythms found in the tune so you can slow parts down enough to practice them PRODUCTIVELY. Learning to read music will make your life so much easier. The other day I was watching a "kid" (probably 20 yrs.) in a shop "play" Dave Matthews' Crash Into Me (I'm not sure if that's the title, it's Crash something) It's simple enough, just some strumming on some odd but cool and related voicings. However, bass notes come in funny and unexpected places and that's what makes the song happen. After he went through the thing about 25 times badly I went over to a bin of used magazines where I knew there was a transcription. When I got back to the acoustic room he spotted me and said "Uh oh, I've seen you before. I know what's coming." I opened the magazine and asked him if he could read the rhythm (there's a repeating, sort of hypnotic pattern). He didn't bother answering, just took off his hat. I bonked him with the magazine. I clapped out the rhythm, he clapped along, we slowed it down, he played the tune with only the bass notes first while I clapped, then he did the whole thing properly. Took him all of 3 minutes to work it up to full speed. It's not just that he can play that part properly now. He's a better player - by a liitle bit. He's not the same person anymore. Little by little you change into a whole different guitarist if you practice properly. Guaranteed! Now if he wants to add some Pete Townshend type strums in the middle of the tune, he won't fall flat on his face. He'll do it, quite easily, without much thought, and like a cat he'll somehow end up upright and on his feet ready for the next measure. Learn to read music. A little effort in, a big reward out.

c) picking up and connecting parts(such as picking up the verse on the last measure and then connecting to the chorus) Your instructor can act as a drummer driving a band rehearsal. It's one thing to pick up some riffs and chords and THINK you can play a tune. It's quite another to be able to run everything together at full speed without losing the beat.

[Pipsqueak]

so....
I hope you enjoyed reading that.
Like I said, it's good advice.......good food for thought at minimum.

Plus, I like the Dave Matthews part of the story. (it's so true too!)

Anyway.
ready for more?

[Pipsqueak]

This is a section more on playing rather than any new theory info really...

If you have learned how to make a major scale (which we have definitely gone over) you should set out and find some practical fingerings (they're all over the place) on your guitar.

For example....for the C major scale....

C D E F G A B C ...you could play

3rd string - 5th fret, 7th fret
2nd string - 5th fret, 6th fret, 8th fret
1st string - 5th fret, 7th fret, 8th fret

Just keep in mind there are many other places to find these same notes.....and as an aside...folks who learn to read music learn the fretboard SO much more easily than those who don't....just an observation in general.....

Note there are no open strings in our scale...just like barre chords....such scale fingerings are movable....move the C major scale up two frets and you'd have the D major scale. (whole step!) Move the C major scale down 3 frets and you'd have the A major scale....ask if you don't get it......

Now, it is one thing to think you know something and it is another thing to know something well enough to use.

Don't start getting sucked off into a black hole here.....that would be memorizing fingering after fingering without really taking the time to absorb what notes you're playing. You're just going to fool yourself into thinking that you're getting somewhere when you're not (probably not). You'd be much better off knowing one scale in a musical sense rather than 43 scales as just dots on paper or physical locations on the fretboard.

In the next couple of posts I'll finally get to how we build the various chords out of major scales...

...what follows right here in this post is not in any way meant to be a complete explanation but rather just a hint as to why you might want to practice playing major scales a particular way....in writing this will probably seem hopelessly complicated....in person, through talking, conversing, and playing, it's very easily understood....

In a nutshell, chords are constructed from scales by picking a root note and then selecting and adding on every other note (you'll see why we call this "stacking thirds" later). Just read the following until you get past the excalmation points...

For example, given the C major scale,

C D E F G A B C

if we select C as a root note and start picking every other note, we would get E and G.

The notes C, E, and G make up a C major chord. Every C major chord you know how to play is just some combination of C's, E's, and G's.

If we took this process of picking every other note way out to the 7th note of the scale, which would be the note B, we'd get a C Maj7 chord. Every C Maj7 chord you know is just some combination of C's, E's, G,s, and B's.

Still using the C major scale....

if I took D as my root note and started adding every other note I'd get the notes

D F and A. These notes together make a Dmin chord. Every Dmin chord you know is just a collection of D's, F's, and A's.

If I took this picking every other note process out to the 7th note from D, that would be the note C, and we'd get

D F A and C. These notes together make a Dmin7 chord. Every Dmin7 chord you know how to play is just a collection of D's, F's, A's, and C's.

****Of course you need to understand the rules that tell you if you've got a major chord as opposed to a minor chord, a Maj7 as opposed to a dominant 7th, etc.....we'll get to that****

You should practice major scales with this "every other note" concept in your head....the root, 3rd, 5th and 7th, etc...notes are important...

Look at the C major scale again...

C D E F G A B C...we could very easily think of this as

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 or

Root 2 3 4 5 6 7 Root or

R 2 3 4 5 6 7 R...

if we added the next highest note D to the scale we would get

C D E F G A B C D...think of that as

R 2 3 4 5 6 7 R 9

Practice the C major scale (any major scale) the following ways.

- R 2 3 4 5 6 7 R

- R 7 6 5 4 3 2 R

- R 2 3 3 2 R

- 3 2 R

- R 2 3 4 5 5 4 3 2 R

- 5 4 3 2 R

- R 2 3 4 5 6 7 7 6 5 4 3 2 R

- 7 6 5 4 3 2 R

also do the following...they should help you "hear" the scale better...

R 2 3 4 5 6 7 R 9 R

3 4 5 6 7 R 9 R

5 6 7 R 9 R

7 R 9 R or 7 R 2 3 4 5 6 7 R 9 R

ask if you are confused.....

again, this is demonstrated in less than 2 minutes in person....it just looks complicated in writing....it's not...

[Pipsqueak]

ALRIGHTY!....
now we're cookin'...
this is where is starts to get fun and exciting...right!

So...at this point, we should be comfortable with figuring out major scales and in the last post we started "stacking thirds" or building triads.

Now, here are the "rules" that I alluded to in the previous post.
(These are the fundamental rules for building chords....TRIADS!!!)

a MAJOR triad is the Root, 3, and 5 notes of the key
a MINOR triad is the Root, b3, and 5 notes of the key (all we do to make it minor is flat the 3rd)
a DIMINISHED triad is the Root, b3, and b5 notes of the key (flat 3rd and 5th)
an AUGMENTED triad is the Root, 3, and #5 notes of the key (sharp the 5th)

now that's pretty easy, right?
some more straight-up info and how-to:

The Triads built on the steps of a major scale are called DIATONIC triads. These are all of the triads possible in a major key. Any other triad would be out of the key.

To construct diatonic triads, begin with writing out a major scale. Then build triads on each note of the scale using only the notes in that scale.

Taking the key of C:
C D E F G A B C

When we do that, we get the following triads:

C major, D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, and B diminished

This sequence (major, minor, minor, major, major, minor, diminished) is referred to as the DIATONIC TRIADS for a given major key, and, like the pattern of half steps and whole steps, holds true for ANY major key.

yee-haw!

DIATONIC TRIADS are commonly referred to by the scale degree of their roots. In Roman numerals this would be as follows:
I----ii----iii----IV----V----vi----vii(dim)

Numerals in upper case refer to major chords, numerals in lowercase refer to minor chords. The single oddity is the diminished chord built on the seventh degree of the scale. It is rarely used, and you may not encounter it. (probably not)

So.....any light bulbs going off yet?
So....just commit these rules to memory. I don't know how else to tell you to do it. That's just how it works.

And, now....you should be able to list ALL of the DIATONIC TRIADS for ALL of the major keys!

Quiz time!

List all of the diatonic triads for all of the major keys: (don't do 7th chords...that's next)

C
G
D
A
E
B
Gb
Db
Ab
Eb
Bb
F

[puck6two4]

despite knowing my theory, i think this is agreat idea, and im sure a great help for many.....this is what i call contributing to the community!!! :thumbsup

[Pipsqueak]

ANSWERS: (respectively)

I----ii-----iii----IV--V----vi----vii--

C---Dm---Em---F---G---Am---Bdim

G---Am---Bm---C---D---Em---F#dim

D---Em---F#m--G---A---Bm---C#dim

A---Bm---C#m--D---E---F#m---G#dim

E---F#m--G#m--A---B--C#m---D#dim

B---C#m--D#m--E---F#--G#m---A#dim

Gb--Abm--Bbm--Cb--Db---Ebm---Fdim

Db--Ebm---Fm--Gb---Ab--Bbm---Ddim

etc....do I need to go on? hopefully you've got it.

[Pipsqueak]

ok....last thread for the evening....

DIATONIC 7th chords!

The rules: (some of you may have seen this in an earlier thread tonight)

first of all, an A7, D7, E7, or G7 etc. chord is the same thing as saying an A DOMINANT 7, or D DOMINANT 7, etc.
dominant is the key word.

I say this, because a D7 chord is different than a Dmaj7 chord
(D dominant 7 vs. D major 7)

make sense?

a major triad is made up of the Root, 3rd, and 5th notes of the key

well,
a MAJOR 7 chord is the Root, 3rd, 5th, and 7th notes of the key

a DOMINANT 7 chord is the Root, 3rd, 5th, and b7th notes of the key (flat 7th)

a MINOR 7 chord is the Root, b3rd, 5th, and b7th notes of the key (flat 3rd and 7th)

a HALF-DIMINISHED 7 chord is the Root, b3rd, b5th, and b7th (flat them all except the root of course)

these types of chords are DIATONIC to the key you are playing in.

The MAJOR 7 chords happen on the I and IV chords of each key
The DOMINANT 7 chord happens on the V chord of each key.
(the ii, iii, and vi are minor and the vii is diminished)

so, previously we had:

I----ii----iii----IV----V----vi----vii(dim)

for 7th chords we have:

maj7---min7---min7---maj7---dom7---min7---dim7

As I said in the other thread.....something you will see A LOT in western music is a V7 chord resolved back to a I chord.

the V--->I progression is HUGE.

Let's just say this....if you can wrap your head, arms, and body around the theory, meaning, etc. of the V chord....
YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.

hey, remember that circle of fifths thing.....?

yeah....that's what I thought.....making sense yet?

ok...'nuff for tonight.

[Pipsqueak]

so...at this point we are starting to move into some things that require some more thought, attention...etc.

I can't stress enough that you should have your guitar in front of you while reading this stuff.

If you just read it and memorize it....that again, only gets you so far.

APPLYING it is a different story.

If you're truly interested in learning theory, you probably don't need your hand held. ok...off I go.


NEXT TIME...........INTERVALS!!! woo hoo!

oh, and BTW....can we make this thread STICKY? It's going to evolve over time.

[saxman1083]

they dont call a V7 --> I cadence PERFECT for nothing! :)

[JCarey03]

This is good stuff pipsqueak..thanks for taking the time to type all these lessons. This thread should be stickied at the top of the Musicians discussion forum...but until then i'll make sure it stays topped myself

[Pipsqueak]

This is good stuff pipsqueak..thanks for taking the time to type all these lessons. This thread should be stickied at the top of the Musicians discussion forum...but until then i'll make sure it stays topped myself

no problem.
just sharing the wealth....stuff I've collected plus stuff that's just up there in the 'ole melon.

I tried to email Matt to see if he would sticky it, but got no response.

oh well.

thanks.

[YknSTONE]

Matt or Marcelo can definatley hook us up with a sticky im sure!!! :)g

[Pipsqueak]

alrighty....just an update.

I finished putting some stuff together for Intervals...

that should be hitting the boards tonight....I hope.

[Pipsqueak]

how-dee.
I've got something to post here on Barre Chords. It is all about technique and not about theory, but I thought I would share it with the people that are brave enought to venture into this thread. To all those that are scared.....too bad, so sad.

This is an article/essay that was brought to my attention on another forum. I thought it was HIGHLY appropriate for this forum, because we're all Dave fans.....and we all know about Dave and his freaky-ass barre chords.

Take from it what you want.....it is good advice, IMO.

Better BARRE CHORDS:

http://www.guitarprinciples.com/Get...ter/essay15.htm

In this essay, I am going to apply a number of the Principles of Correct Practice to a technical area that is of major concern to players. For beginners, it poses one of the most challenging difficulties, and an incomplete appreciation of it’s difficulties dogs many an advanced player ( sometimes without them being aware of it).

Bar chords are what I am referring to, those nasty, difficult guitar chords that we run into sooner or later as we try to play our favorite songs. I am going to address the physical, technical aspects of learning these chords in a way that will enable you to avoid the difficulties that attend the learning of them for most players.

I remember when I first learned them. It was the "tough" school, the school of hard knocks. The school of "here is where to put your fingers, I know it feels impossible, you’re not getting most of the notes out, but if you stay with it long enough, you’ll be able to do it." And that is true. And I did "get" them. After months of lessons where I was forced to keep up a rhythm while my teacher played the lead over a lot of great jazz tunes and standards I am happy to have learned, the pain in my thumb and hand and arm began to subside. I was getting stronger and that was good.

What I didn’t know was that even though I was learning to keep up with these chord changes, I had so much muscle tension in my arms and other parts of my body, that I was locking in tensions that didn’t have to be there, and would come back to haunt me a few years later as I attempted the classical repertoire, where you don’t really get away with things like that. As the years went by, and especially in teaching others, I realized that it doesn’t have to be that way for anybody! There is a way of going about it that doesn’t create or allow this situation. In fact, it makes learning things like bar chords an orderly, if still somewhat demanding process. And the result is a very comfortable feeling while doing them, and the proper basis for more advanced techniques, such as keeping a bar down while the other fingers do all sorts of things that demand great control.

Now before I go into some actual exercises, make sure you have read my other essays, especially "Discover Your Discomfort", "The Secret of Speed", and "Changing Chords". There you will find explanations of some vital concepts, such as The Floating Arm, and the Light Finger. These are names that represent the internal physical and mental feelings that good players have when doing things like Bar chords. You will also find specific exercises so that you can discover these sensations for yourself. If you have already read them, read them again! And do the exercises.


Discovering the Heavy Arm

After gaining an appreciation of the Floating Arm and Light Finger, you need to discover the Heavy Arm and Firm Finger. These are the names that describe the sensations that accompany the actual doing of Bar Chords, and they proceed from the Sensations of the Floating Arm and Light Finger, that is , the Floating Arm and Light Finger must come first.

Do this to discover the sensation of the Heavy Arm and Firm Finger:
Put down the guitar, and place your left hand on your lap.
Grab hold of the tips of your left hand fingers with your right hand.
Let go completely of all the muscles of the left arm and shoulder. It should be like dead weight, a piece of meat lying there.
Using your right hand and arm, lift up your dead weight, completely relaxed left arm and hand. Then let go, so that your left arm falls with all it’s weight back in to your lap. (Be careful you don’t slam your hand into something. Very bad for playing also.)
Obviously, if your left arm did not fall, you did not completely let go with all it’s muscles when holding it up with the right hand. Try again.

This is the heavy arm, the arm that is totally relaxed and not held up by it’s own power. It is the opposite of the Floating Arm. Good players are aware of these sensations, and constantly shifting between them as the left hand functions on the neck.

The Firm Finger

Now do this to discover the Firm Finger, which is used to direct the weight of the arm to the strings.
Hold your right hand out in front of you, palm facing up toward the ceiling.
Place the index finger of your left hand into the center of your palm. Use the light finger, the totally relaxed finger, and tap it lightly in to your palm..
Now allow the finger to become firm, so that you can begin to relax your arm muscles a bit, and the firm index finger helps support the arms position by acting as a kind of "hook" , that is, hooking your left arm onto your right palm.

This is how the Firm Finger functions with the Heavy Arm in playing. We will use these sensations in learning Bar Chords.

1-3-3-2-1-1 (6th string root)

Here is the most basic bar chord to know, one everyone needs to be able to play eventually. It is the lucky guitarist who learns the correct approach to this chord, one that will lead to easy mastery.

I am going to walk you through an approach to dealing with this chord that will be a very good way to first learn it, or re-orient your current approach.

Lets do this chord at the fifth fret, an easier place then the first fret. Do this:

Holing the guitar in a relaxed way, keep the right hand comfortably placed near the strings, very relaxed. Keep the left hand and arm down at your side.

Slowly raise the arm and hand without raising the shoulder in the least. Touch your light, relaxed middle finger to the 3rd string, 6th fret. Make sure you bend the finger at all the joints, especially the tip joint. Be aware of and relax your entire body as you do so, especially shoulders and arms.

Now touch the light relaxed 3rd finger to the 5th string, 7th fret. Place it right behind the fret. You will have to stretch it away from the 2nd finger to do so. If you are paying enough attention, you will notice a small degree (or maybe more) of tension coming in to your hands and arms as you make this small stretch. Relax that tension out (always do this during stretching motions).

Keeping the Floating Arm with Light Fingers touching the strings, bend your pinky and tuck it in behind the 3rd finger, touching the 4th string, right behind the 7th fret. Make sure the pinky bends at each joint, especially the tip joint (distal joint). Not doing this is a common fault, especially when first learning these chords. It is bad because without the right bend in the joint, your force is not focused correctly on to the string, and you will then be creating tension in your arm.

You now have fingers 2,3, and 4 down, all light, not even pushing the strings to the frets. Look at the space between the strings and the fingerboard to make sure this is so. Double check your relaxation.

Now allow the fingers to become Firm, as you allow the arm to become heavy. The weight of your arm will be coming through your Firm Fingers, to accomplish the job of getting the string to the fret. Because of this, very little effort is actually required from the thumb. Only a little squeezing action directed toward the pressure coming from the fingers. When you do it just right, it is a very relaxed and balanced feeling.

Now the big moment. Placing the 1st finger across in the Bar. There is one very important thing to take notice of here. Unlike the approach most people use in learning Bars, we are placing the Bar down last, not first. Placing it down first will tie your other fingers up with tension that you will then be fighting with.

If done correctly, you will now be able to lay the Light 1st finger down on to the strings. Flap it up and down a few times to insure it’s lightness and relaxation.

Check over your hand and the rest of your body for relaxation again, and then allow your first finger to become firm, and to bring the weight of your arm to the strings. Do this very slowly, adding a little squeeze with the thumb from behind.

I have used this approach with beginners, and have often had them doing a perfect Bar Chord the first time out, if it is done exactly right. True, it is a lot easier if someone is there to give correction on all the nuances of finger placement, but I hope I have been detailed enough, and that you will try this out with great attention, intelligence and persistence, and that between the two of us, something useful will occur.


Copyright 1999 by Jamey Andreas. All Rights Reserved.

Hope you enjoyed that....
I swear Intervals will go up this weekend.
:p

[Dancing Ants]

damn Pip. Just damn. Thank you so much. I am trying to learn how to solo right now...this is helping me! Thank you!

[Dancing Ants]

Pip...where'd you go?

Top^^

[Pipsqueak]

I'm still here....
Keeping my promise (it is still the weekend, right?)
MUCHO stuff on Intervals.
good luck, and maybe now is the time to start a "Guitar Theory Questions" thread...
(credit for this one comes from a friend...I'll type my thoughts in the next post)

INTERVALS....

When you play one note it rings out and then fades away eventually...it doesn't leave much of an impression.

When you play two notes though, they interact with one another...they create an effect....they create a sound that you can 'put your finger on', a sound you can identify and reproduce.

That sound you get from the pair of notes depends on how far apart they are - how distant they are from one another (in terms of whole and half steps)....this distance is called an "interval".

Note that often people will use the word "interval" to mean the actual pair of notes themselves. That's fine, just don't get mixed up. Gather the meaning from context.

If the notes are played together (such as in a chord) sometimes they're called a "harmonic interval". If the notes are played one after the other (as in a melody), they're referred to as a "melodic interval".

Again, the word "interval" sometimes means the distance between 2 notes, and sometimes it just means the actual pair of notes themselves (for example to 'play an interval' on your guitar would mean to simply hit a pair of notes, either together or one after the other....that's all.)

When you play a pair of notes the effect might be a pleasant and harmonious sound (consonance). Or, you might get an unpleasant sound (dissonance) - a sound your ears just don't want to accept...a sound that is just dying to resolve into a more pleasant sound....

play C with E (or E with C)....that's pleasant enough....consonant

But play C with Gb....oooooh.....ugly dissonance....ugly, ugly.......throw some hooves and horns on this interval and you'd swear it was my mother-in-law.

oh c'mon, it's just a joke......

What we need to do is classify all the possible intervals (there's not that many really), get used to their sounds, and get so you can locate them quickly on your fretboard.....

intervals.....

..our chords are made from intervals

...the characteristic sound that a given chord yields is determined by its constituent intervals

...the sound and flow of melodies are determined by intervals

...and...as a very practical point (not that learning how to build chords is somehow impractical)...

....we often, in practice, actually play intervals (or intervals along with a bass note) on the guitar - especially in the blues, whether electric or acoustic...and most certainly in fingerstyle music....ok, ANY form of guitar music....any time you hear pairs of notes sliding about....doesn't matter if it's Hendrix' "Voodoo" cranked to 11, Jim Croce's Time in a Bottle, Zeppelin's Since I've Been Loving You, Van Morrisons Brown Eyed Girl, the Beatles' Blackbird, a fingerstyle arrangement of something like Silent Night, or Chet Atkins' Waiting for Susie B .....constantly hear intervals in guitar music.....

The notion of intervals is going to be tied to major scales here....make sure you know how to make a major scale...go back to earlier posts if you don't...ask if you've got questions.....

....I'll try to keep this informal...we'll sort of do this out by example...it works the same exact way with each major scale...

Consider the C major scale...

C D E F G A B C

We would say that...

C to D forms an interval of a major 2nd

C to E blah blah blah major 3rd

C - F blah blah blah perfect 4th

C - G perfect 5th

C - A major 6th

C - B major 7th

C with itself is called a unison

C with the next highest C (the first C along with the last C of that C major scale) forms an interval known as an octave....

Now, a couple of things...people use, misuse, and abuse the language in all sorts of ways (I do, too...remember I'm self-taught...If someone catches me saying something that's not quite accurate, please correct me....)

People might say things like...

C to D is a major 2nd
C and D are a major2nd apart
C with D is a major 2nd
D is the major 2nd of C
etc....

also, just like with chords, the word "major" is often dropped...for example we usually say "G chord" instead of " G major chord"... same thing with intervals...we would say "D is the 2nd of C".... of course this should give you a hint that there are such things as minor intervals....

...also the word "perfect" is often dropped...
..."F is the 4th of C" and "G is the 5th of C"would be a common way of describing those intervals.....

It is very important to understand that intervals are measured in terms of the number of whole and half steps that separate the two given notes...tying intervals to major scales gives us a way of organizing this stuff in a useful way....but it's the distance between the two notes that creates the sound...don't lose that idea....

...by the way, a half step is often called a "semitone" or "semitone step", whereas whole steps are often called just "steps", or "tones" or "tone steps" or "whole-tones" or "whole-tone steps"...again, different people say different things...so much so that I'm not even sure if any particular language here is more 'correct' than any other...just gain the meaning from context..

Confirm the following from what you know about building major scales (Root, then WWHWWWH)....

a major 2nd represents a whole step (we could most simply say "one step")

a major 3rd represents 2 whole steps (or 2 tones, or just simply 2 steps)

a perfect 4th represents 2 1/2 steps (2 1/2 tones)

a perfect 5th represents 3 1/2 steps

a major 6th represents 4 1/2 steps

a major 7th represents 5 1/2 steps

an octave represents 6 steps...again, that means 6 whole-steps

I'll get back to this....

What about the other notes that aren't in the C major scale?

Again, remember that the C major scale is

C D E F G A B C

C and Db would form an interval called a minor 2nd (remember C to D was a major 2nd) - note that a major 2nd represents a distance of a whole step and a minor 2nd just represents a distance of a half step

C and Eb = a minor 3rd (C and E were a major 3rd)...play C with E, then play C with Eb...hear the difference.....a major 3rd is two whole steps... whereas a minor 3rd is just one and a half steps.....

C and Gb would be called a diminished 5th (or lowered 5th, or flatted 5th, or flat 5 - Do Not say a minor 5th)......get your guitar in tune and play C with G....it's called a "perfect" 5th because you really shouldn't hear any dissonance at all (use a perfectly tuned piano to even better hear the perfect 5th)....The diminished 5th is extremely dissonant...

C to A was a major 6th... C to Ab will be called a minor 6th

(note that Ab is the same note as G#.....Since C and G make a 5th, there will be times when we want to say C and G# form an interval of a "raised 5th", or "augmented 5th" or "sharp 5th" or "sharp 5", etc...

C to B was called a major 7th...C to Bb is called a minor 7th (or lowered 7th, or flat 7, or flattened 7th - Do Not use the term diminished 7th here, that will mean something else.)

I think we've covered all the notes.....

Now, we could do this for any major scale, regardless of the root......remember that all major scales are built the same exact way...everything always works out the same no matter which major scale we are using.....

Consider the G major scale...

G A B C D E F# G

G to A = major 2nd and
G to Ab = minor 2nd

G to B = major 3rd and
G to Bb = minor 3rd

G to C = perfect 4th (or just say 4th)

G to D = perfect 5th (or just say 5th)
G to Db = diminished 5th

G to E = major 6th
G to Eb = minor 6th

G to F# = major 7th
G to F = minor 7th or flattened 7th

G up to next G = octave


Before a quiz,,,, some more info....

we don't stop at the octave....we can keep going...

Consider the C major scale again, but don't stop at the ocave this time.....

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C

The first D formed an interval of a major 2nd with C. The next highest note D in the scale would be called the "9th" of C (count it out)

Likewise, the first E is the major 3rd of C, the next E would be called the 10th

we can keep going ... 11ths, 12ths, 13ths, 14ths...you'll see , however, in due time, that we won't use the words "10ths, 12ths, and 14ths" in the naming of chords....in fact we never say "12ths" or "14ths" at all really ...it doesn't happen....we will though use the words "9ths, 11ths, and 13ths".....you will see things like a C9 chord, a G11 chord , an A13 chord, or a G7#5b9 chord.....but you will never see something like a B12 chord...only on your vitamins...

...we'll first learn how to make basic triads (three-note chords) and then worry about adding in 7ths, 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths,

...let me just say though that we do very often play intervals of a 10th on the guitar (think Blackbird)...we'll get there...

just be aware of the fact that when you see those "funny" jazzy chords with 5's, 9's, 11's, and 13's in their names, what might look to you like awfully complicated names just results from counting through the notes of the major scale....counting is easy....

still need a quiz on the basic intervals....

A couple of quizzes, then we'll turn to playing intervals (you should be able to play through major scales with 3rds, 6ths, and 10ths as easily as you play a C chord), and finally get on to how you construct chords from a major scale.....


I'll use the guitar friendly keys here...

Remember...

C major = C D E F G A B C

G major = G A B C D E F# G

D major = D E F# G A B C# D

A major = A B C# D E F# G# A

E major = E F# G# A B C# D# E

...also remember that a major 3rd represents two whole steps and a minor 3rd just represents 1 1/2 steps...


Interval Quiz 1


What is the:

1. major 3rd of E?

2. minor 3rd of E?

3. major 3rd of D?

4. minor 3rd of D?

5. 3rd of A?

6. minor 3rd of A?

7. 3rd of G?

8. lowered 3rd (minor 3rd) of G?

9. major 3rd of C?

10. minor 3rd of C?

Note that it is 2 steps (2 whole steps) from C to E. It is 1 1/2 steps from C to Eb.

How many steps is it from:

11. D to F#?

12. D to F?

13. E to G?

14. E to G#?

15. A to C?

16. A to C#?

17. G to B?

18. G to Bb?


Major and minor 3rds are very important....

....you'll see we build chords out of thirds

....and again.....

we play 3rds, 6ths, and 10ths in guitar music a lot....

...10ths are essentially just 3rds spread out

...and you'll see that 6ths are just 3rds 'flipped' or 'inverted' (example: C to E is a major 3rd , but E to C is a minor 6th...likewise... E to G is a minor 3rd, but G to E is a major 6th).

Consider the C major scale ....

C D E F G A B C

C to D is a major 2nd and D to C is a minor 7th

C to E is a major 3rd and E to C is a minor 6th

C to F is a perfect 4th and F to C is a perfect 5th

C to G is a perfect 5th and G to C is a perfect 4th

C to A is a major 6th and A to C is a minor 3rd

C to B is a major 7th and B to C is a minor 2nd

Note how the numbers always add up to 9, notice the inverting of 'major' and 'minor', notice how a perfect interval remains perfect when inverted.....

we need a couple more quizzes on intervals...
Another interval quiz...

Interval Quiz 2


What is the:

1. fifth (perfect fifth) of A?

2. fifth of D?

3. fifth of E?

4. maj 7th of D?

5. min7th (lowered 7th, flat 7th) of D?

6. maj 7th of A?

7. min 7th of A?

8. maj 7th of E?

9. lowered 7th of E?

10. 9th of C?

11. 10th of C?

12. 9th of G?

13. 10th of G?

14. 9th of D?

15. 10th of D?

16. 9th of A?

17. 10th of A?

18. 9th of E?

19. 10th of E?

PLAYING INTERVALS

We often play 3rd's, 6ths, and 10ths on the guitar....you've got to get this stuff down cold....

We're going to learn how to 'play through a scale' with intervals...we'll do 3rds first..

Consider the C major scale again...I'm going to write out 10 notes of it here instead of just stopping at the octave...you'll see why....

C D E F G A B C D E

If you were to play this (just from C to C) on the 2nd string (remember, always count from the thinnest string when numbering the strings....) you would play the following frets...

1 3 5 6 8 10 12 13 - again that's the C major scale from C to C...now we will 'harmonize'it with 3rds....

BEWARE...a huge point of confusion can arise here....I'm going to use language that seems to connect with most folks...it's actually a bit of an abuse of language....ASK if you've got questions!

There's no confusion doing this out on the guitar in person I might add.....


...and remember....a major 3rd represents a distance of two whole steps....a minor 3rd represents a distance of just 1 1/2 steps...


WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of C is E (just count 1 2 3 starting on C)...it HAPPENS to be a MAJOR 3rd

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of D is F (just count 1 2 3 through the C major scale starting on D) - it HAPPENS to be a MINOR 3rd - STOP RIGHT HERE and make sure you understand that...I'll say it again....within the C major scale we find the note D and its MINOR 3rd, the note F........keep in mind that D to F# would be a major 3rd because D and F# are separated by two whole steps...you could also reason out that D and F# represent the root and 3rd note of the D major scale to convince yourself that D and F# make the interval of a major 3rd....

...but we don't find the note F# in a C major scale...WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE we have D and its MINOR 3rd, the note F....

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of E is G (again, within the C major scale, count 1 2 3 starting on E) - it HAPPENS to be a MINOR 3rd - does that make sense? You know that G# represents the major 3rd of E, but we don't have a G# in a C major scale.....we have E and its minor 3rd, the note G, instead.

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of F is A - it HAPPENS to be a MAJOR 3rd

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of G is B - it HAPPENS to be a MAJOR 3rd

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of A is C - it HAPPENS to be a MINOR 3rd

WITHIN THE C MAJOR SCALE, the 3rd of B is D - it HAPPENS to be a MINOR 3rd

Now we're up to the octave (C again), and things just start repeating....the 3rd of this C is E also.....a major 3rd

To 'harmonize' the C major scale in 3rds just means to play each note of the scale along with it's 3rd from the scale (whether it's major or minor) - we play the scale as a sequence of pairs of notes

C with E (C and it's 3rd)
D with F
E with G
F with A
G with B
A with C
B with D
and finally C with E again......

....so on the 2nd and first string you would play the following frets ( of course you could find these notes on any pair of strings) ...get the order of the strings correct!

1 and open (1st fret on 2nd string, open on first...that's the notes C and E...

3 and 1 that's D on the 2nd string and F on the first string...

5 and 3 that's E and G

6 and 5

8 and 7

10 and 8

12 and 10

and finally 13 and 12

I'll get back to this....everything is so easily done in a minute in person...looks like a mess in print...there are no complicated ideas here......

As another example, let's harmonize the G major scale in 3rds...

If you play the G major scale, you play the notes

G A B C D E F# G...now just write it out to 10 notes...

G A B C D E F# G A B...

playing this scale harmonized in 3rds we would play the following pairs of notes...

G WITH B THEN
A WITH C THEN
B WITH D THEN
C WITH E THEN
D WITH F# THEN
E WITH G THEN
F# WITH A THEN
finally G WITH B again (an octave up from the first G with B).....

you could find these pairs of notes on any 2 strings...let's do it out on the 3rd and 2nd strings I'll list the fret numbers for the 3rd and 2nd strings....get the order of strings correct...

open on 3rd , open on 2nd (that's G and B)

2 and 1 (remember, these are fret numbers on the 3rd and 2nd strings)

4 and 3

5 and 5

7 and 7

9 and 8

11 and 10

12 and 12


Let's go back to the C major scale and again harmonize it with 3rds, but on some other pairs of strings this time (we did it on strings 2 and 1 above)...

Let's do it with the C major scale up the 5th string and the harmony (the 3rds) on the 4th string

Again, I'll give fret postions, this time for the 5th and 4th strings.

3 and 2...that's the notes C and E
5 and 3...that's the notes D and F
7 and 5 E and G
8 and 7 F and A
10 and 9 G and B
12 and 10 A and C
14 and 12 B and D
15 and 14 C and E again

For Interval Quiz 3, harmonize the C major Scale in 3rds up the 4th and 3rd strings...

I think we'll move on to harmonizing with 10ths and then 6ths.....then a big quiz in lots of different keys.....

on to intervals of a 6th and 10th...

Intervals of a 6th can be thought of as the result of flipping - or inverting - intervals of a third.....

heres thirds up the first two strings in the key of C...then we'll flip them to make sixths...

C major = C D E F G A B C or just write

C major = C D E F G A B....simplifies our counting through the scale..

C and E xxxx10 ...actually let's flip this interval of a third first so you can see what is happening here...take the 3rd of C, which is the note E found on the open first string here....and drop that E by an octave...that would give us this:

xx2x1x note that E is now our low note (we're now going to think of this as E with C as opposed to C with E)

also note that we don't have a third anymore...the interval has become 'wider'...

we had C(1) D(2) E(3) a third...and now we've got E with C which is

E(1) F(2) G(3) A(4) B(5) C(6) a 6th...

Does that make sense?

To count from C to E in the C major scale, we only count up to 3 (and we say C and E form an interval of a3rd)

But to count from E up to C in the C major scale, we have to count up to 6 (and we say E to C is a 6th)


the only thing left to do is decide if E up to C represents a major 6th or a minor 6th...

to do that, we refer back to the E major scale which is

E major = E F# G# A B C# D# E you really need to develop the ability to QUICKLY produce any given major scale (in your head, on paper, and most importantly on the fretboard)...go back to the theory posts about the major scale...

anways, the 6th note of the E major scale is C#

E to C# forms a major 6th and
E to C will be called a minor 6th...

play E with C# xx2x2x and compare to
E with C xx2x1x you should hear the minor (sad, dark) quality...

General rule.....when you flip a major interval....it becomes a minor interval...and note the number 9 as being key...

C to E is a major 3rd
and
E to C is a minor 6th

the tough part... 3+6=9

I'll finish...

I should add that when you flip a minor interval it becomes major..

onward...


we'll do thirds and then flip them to 6ths...

we did C and E flipping to E and C above

D and F xxxx31 (minor 3rd) inverts to

F and D xx3x3x (major 6th)

E and G xxxx53 (minor 3rd) inverts to

G and E xx5x5x (major 6th)

stop right there for a second

people often refer to playing with 6ths as "sliding 6ths"

note that a G chord is the notes G B D (and that a G7 is the notes G B D F)

note that a C chord is the notes C E G

strum a G chord for a couple beats and

play

xx5x5x...(part of a G chord)...then slide down to

xx3x3x...(still part of a G chord)...then slide down to

xx2x1x (part of a C chord) and then plop onto the C bass to 'finish' the C chord......

you're just using intervals to 'spread out' the chords....you hear this stuff constantly in guitar music...listen to Jim Croce's Time in a Bottle.....better yet get the TAB and try to figure out what's going on musically in the tune...the way the two guitars complement each other never gets old....



F and A xxxx65 inverts to

A and F xx7x6x

G and B xxxx87 inverts to

B and G xx9x8x

finish for a quiz

as far as 'remembering all of this'...how does anyone in any discipline acquire all their facts, knowledge, and associated stuff?....a little bit (a VERY little bit...a tiny bite...a nibble....at a time over a long period of time....

once something is in your long term memory, you don't have to try to remember it anymore...just need to periodically utilize it....

important to note the following (I think)

I've noticed that a lot of folks when trying to learn and remember their way about the fretboard (and I almost don't wan't to use the word 'remember'...it doesn't go deep enough) will practice and practice and practice (at least they think they are practicing) like crazy until the cows come home ....the cows arrive....and they're all wearing sandwich signs that say "hey doofus, yeah you, that's right, the one with the opposable thumbs instead of hooves, Mister Oh So Smart Advanced Mammal...you've been sitting there for an hour and you've yet to give your brain something to remember."

What I'm getting at is this...

Let's say you're just getting started with trying to play intervals....you'd like to get so you can play like the background electric guitar (doesn't have to be an electric) of Van Morrison's Brown Eyed Girl ... the guitarist just goes on an on the whole song playing little fills by sliding 6ths and playing out of triad shapes mostly...all over the neck...on and on and on...to do that type of stuff well you have got to flat out know your stuff (well).. (duh)

so anyways, you're at the beginning of your Intervallic Experience...starting in the key of C major (no sharps or flats) where it's a bit easier to think...trying to learn how to play 6ths up the neck on the 4th and 2nd strings cause some guy on the internet said you should...

you're trying to learn some intervals...you get a little spooked looking up the fretboard too far...so you wisely say to yourself...ok, I'll concentrate on 'these' (that's good)...

'these' being

E and C xx2x1x

F and D xx3x3x and

G and E xx5x5x

and then the trouble starts...

intentions are good.....but...oh my my...serious silliness is about to happen

...picture someone trying to learn how to be an auto mechanic....knows nothing about the workings of an engine - nothing at all...the person has a friend or more advanced mechanic take an engine completely apart and scatter the various (and numerous!) parts about the lawn...heck, throw all the tools about the lawn, too......

...then you watch the guy stumble and bumble around the lawn randomly picking up a part here and there...occasionally clangs and bangs two of the parts together rather unpurposefully (sp? no, wait...word?) with a stumped look on his face....starts mumbling in a David Letterman imitating a hick from the sticks voice..."Gee whiz, sure are a lotta parts here."

Now....Q? what the heck is going on here...and the answer of course is nothing....

nothing whatsoever....

certainly no progress towards being a mechanic....

...how can we change the situation...

Ever made a snowman?...you start with a little snowball and start rolling it around...it grows bigger and bigger....we want something like that when we're trying to learn the fretboard....actually we'd like something like this:

snowball at the top of hill....it starts to roll down....with every turn of the ball it itself grows larger but it also webs out and gives rise to another ball or two....they all start multiplying and growing.....voof........etc...coming down the mountain....ain't no stopping it.....someone tell all those yuppies in their SUV's up here for a ski weekend to watch out....just kidding.....gives the locals some sort of employment I guess...

anyways....let's say you want to 'know' the following intervals well enough to use (to get them engrained (sp?)...to really have them be a part of your playing...to have them effortlessly and instantly recalled...)

just writing them out again (intervals of a 6th in the key of C up the 4th and 2nd string...

E and C xx2x1x

F and D xx3x3x

G and E xx5x5x

A and F xx7x6x

B and G xx9x8x

C and A xx 10 x 10 x

D and B xx 12 x 12 x

and back to

E and C xx 14 x 13 x

Let's suppose you don't know (don't have it available for INSTANT recall) the name of a single note on your guitar...that's fine..

Get out that trusty metronome....

set it around 50 or 60 beats per minute...

play xx2x1x (the E and the C.... simultaneously...fingerstyle) and let it ring for 4 beats...

play xx3x3x (the F and the D the same way)

back and forth between those intervals....4 beats on each...over and over...4 beats and switch, 4 beats and switch...do it for 2 or 3 minutes....surely if really want to play the guitar well you've got 2 or 3 minutes..don't ask why...don't be stubborn...just do it.... no risk....get that head bobbing....Mick Jagger early 80's chicken dance sort of thing....do it with feeling....



first...10ths in the key of C up the 4th and 1st string...

then we'll get back to how people learn... I was thinking 'a child's first experience with a sandbox' type of thing....

check your note names (and fret numbers) and try to see why we might call these 10ths instead of thirds...ask

E and G xx2xx3 that's a 10th

E F G A B C D E F G

E and G xx20xx would be a third

E F G


the rest of the 10ths in the key of C....(could do this on other pairs of strings...)

F and A xx3xx5

note that

F and A like this xx32xx would be a 3rd

G and B xx5xx7

A and C xx7xx8

B and D xx 9 xx 10

C and E xx 10 xx 12

D and F xx 12 xx 13 or

Dand F xx0xx1


start with just those intervals ..

E with C xx2x1x

F with D xx3x3x

to 'experience' them....just play 4 beats on each over and over and over and over back and forth......make sure you consistently finger them, use a particular fingering for E with C, use a paricular fingering for F with D....don't rush this.......

give it a few minutes...

keep the same rhythm

I'd start saying "e" when playing the first interval, start saying "f" when playing the 2nd interval...

remember, you're just playing whole notes (4 beats) at this point....let's move to half-notes (2 beats)

hold the first interval, but don't play them as a pair...play E and let it ring 2 beats, pluck the C (and let E keep ringing) for beats 3 and 4, then do the same up on the F and the D

I'd say out loud "E with C" say the E when you play it...say the C when you play it...throw in the 'with' a half-beat before the C....everything with rhythm....

I found students would very quickly stop saying things like "here", "there", and would stop doing things like pointing around the fretboard......they'd start speaking musically, they'd refer to the note names,

they'd stop saying things like "this", and would start saying something more specific such as "this interval" or "this 6th"

one thing at a time...give your brain a fair chance and it will do fine..

now maybe go back to those intervals as whole notes, but practice switching them a half beat early....very very very different feel....

too much on the beat is too much like Bert....

loosen up....be a little more like Grover and Cookie Monster.....

now what do we know (what have we learned), what can we do, and where can we go....

gimmme cookie.....
you work on the what's...ask if you can't come up with anything.....

let's keep working at these intervals....

melody, harmony, and rhythm.....melody, harmony, and rhythm...there isn't anything else....even if you're working on something technique-oriented, you're just tyring to better bring out the melody, harmony, and rhythm of the music...anyways...

we get good at doing something simple...make it effortless - such as playing those intervals as described above (I'm using a swing as opposed to a straight rhythm)....

....make things one simple step more complicated (trivially easy to do if you master things as you move along)

go back to playing 4 beats on each interval....swing rhythm...and switching a half-beat early (that means you're counting

1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &

and you're making you're switches on the & of 4.

make it one step more complicated by just doing something simple like a percussive muted slap on the strings on the count of 4 (still make the switch on the & of 4....slowly, slowly, slowly....use the metronome....remember...loose like Grover.....elbows all over the place and throw that head back.......by the way - one of the what's that should be happening is that at the very least you should start knowing where E and F are on the 4th string of you're guitar....don't think "so what"...there are only 12 notes to keep track of... those 2 notes represents a good-sized chunk...trust me....

do the slap thing for a minute or two.....then just go back to no slap for a minute or so,

now go back to doing the switches on the beat.....are you learning the notes on the 2nd string too, yet? Are you learning them without really trying?

we're only a couple minutes into this...ok? Not a massive investment of time....

now we've got a choice....are we going to start expanding our rhythmic horizons next....or are we perhaps going to start moving up the fretboard (new melody and harmony awaits up there)....

I don't think it matters...in a lesson we'd bop back and forth....that brings up an important point...we'll get to it...bopping about is fine as long as you are mastering and then making connections to what is already understood....

Stay with rhythm for a moment....

play so you are playing on beats 1 and 4 and making the switches on the beat of 1...you're still just 4 beats on each...I guess this is why people start using musical notation instead of written language....anyways...

now change up the rhythm to something one step more complicated...

4 beats on each still, but play on beats 1 and 4 and make the switches on the & of 4....


anyways, we've snuck in the feel of whole notes, half notes, quarter notes, and 8th notes at this point....and you should without a doubt see E and C and F with D 'lighting up' on the fretboard....

let's just change ONE thing...we'll be 100% sure we ONLY use some of the rhythms we've used above and we'll start to incorporate sliding up to

xx5x5x a beat or half beat before sliding down to

our old lovable furry blue friend Grover...I mean our old friend F with D

xx3x3x

we shouldn't have any problems with the rhythm....we've already mastered that..

we shouldn't have any problems with learing the names of the notes in the new interval

xx5x5x

(it really should be trivial)

SO LONG AS WE HAVE TRULY COMMITTED THE NAMES OF THE NOTES IN THE OTHER INTERVALS TO MEMORY.....now if you haven't....you're head's gonna start getting overloaded...so don't do it...who gives a duck's duff if it takes another day to learn the first two intervals...who the heck cares....plowing along when you're not ready to won't work, so don't do it....make this easy...go back, stay with the same notes, and funk up the rhythm (more with 8ths and introduce triplets) if you aren't getting the note names learned....that's fine....that's wonderful....give a Grover yell...arms out....don't worry about the aging mid-section....Grover needs to do some crunches....

you should only be a few minutes into this process...the typing takes forever...but honestly, focused and specific practice should really not take tons of time (unless you're doing tons of relevant stuff, of course)


where were we...

getting back to this learning, knowing, memorizing, engraining, whatever...

metronome ticking slowly...again...around 60?

you're just 4 beats on E with C, then 4 beats on F with D, over and over, oao, oao, oao, oao..........changing up the rhythm (just a bit) here and there.....

hopefully, if your patient, and you're not overwhelming yourself you're flat out learning

- 1 a few of the note names...well enough that you don't have to try to remember them anymore...do you have to try to remember your wife's name if you see her standing with 11 other women? Would it severely limit your ability to interact with her if you were saying things like....ummm Victoria, wait, no, you're umm...ummma...let me see, wait, really, I know this,... you're Leeann,...wait no, that's not it,,,,wait, just give me a second...wait wait wait........ummmm Alexandra?

Slap.

Ouch.

Of course...people do that on the fretboard....wait....that's C with E, no that's E with C, that's F and B? No? F with D? D with F? A 6th? Really?...major 6th...no...wait, minor 6th?...something like that....

give your brain one thing to remember...it will easily absorb it - no doubt...it will want to connect it to something it already knows - no doubt....it will get hungry for more - no doubt

play just those intervals over and over...once your brain knows where the E and F are on the 4th string....it WANTS to know where the G is on the 4th string...it's not overload.....you learned your ABC's a long time ago....your brain doesn't want E and F in isolation....it wants to connect them with G....but not if it's struggling to remember where the heck E and F are...

- take the time to let your head absorb a couple note names...

- take the time to let your head absorb the fingerings

- take the time to let your head absorb the rhythm

- take your time to let your head absorb the sound of something non-C-major chordish (F with D) resolving to something very C-major chordish (E with C)

- take your time to let your head absorb the name of the type of interval you are playing...

etc....

in a couple minutes your brain should have learned a bunch of new things and you're ready to move on....

This is for Interval Quiz 1...there will be a couple more....

1. G#
2. G
3. F#
4. F
5. C#
6. C
7. B
8. Bb
9. E
10. Eb
11. 2
12. 1 1/2
13. 1 1/2
14. 2
15. 1 1/2
16. 2
17. 2
18. 1 1/2

Interval Quiz 2 Answers...make sure you're looking at the answer key you think you are!......

1. E
2. A
3. B
4. C#
5. C
6. G#
7. G
8. D#
9. D
10. D
11. E
12. A
13. B
14. E
15. F#
16. B
17. C#
18. F#
19. G#

This is the answer key for Interval Quiz 3. You were asked to harmonize the C major scale up the 4th and 3rd strings.....

Remember ....

C major scale =

C D E F G A B C D E etc....

On strings 4 and 3 you should play the following frets:

10 and 9 that's C and E

12 and 10 that's D and F

2 and open that's E and G....and yes we could have done 14 and 12 and kept going up....we'll end up getting out of the practical range, though

3 and 2 that's F and A

5 and 4 that's G and B

7 and 5 that's A and C

9 and 7 that's B and D

and we're back to

10 and 9 that's C and E again....

important stuff.... :bounce

[Dancing Ants]

Hey, Pip, catch me on AOL IM sometime...I am kinda lost on the whole Triads thing...CoopDogg86 is my screenname.

[mavonw]

pisqueak,
this is an awesome post first of all....
i have played guitar as an all out hobby/passion for almost a year now. I first picked up a guitar 7 years ago for lessons i took at my highschool as a freshmen..i then took finger picking/classical lessons as a freshmen in college. These are the only two lessons I have ever taken..I have learned about every dave song in the past 6-7 months and have been writing my own music and have over 30 songs now. All of these songs were written in the past 5 months. My songs aren't to overly advanced but not to easy..either way, they are becoming more advanced song by song. Is this common with people who don't know anything about music theory...and personally i only know the name of a few chords ..c g d e a f ..anyways just looking for some insight you seem to know quite a bit..thanks
Mark

[Pipsqueak]

More thoughts on intervals....

First of all, if you don't have all the other stuff down cold don't dive into intervals yet. 'nuff said. It's not worth it, and you'll just clog up your brain.

thoughts:
Intervals are really important to learn and understand. And let's face it, if you can learn the previous info. intervals are a piece of cake.

Intervals also help lay a foundation for soloing, intros, outros, etc..etc..

Using Thirds is a big one.....
Let's see...I can think of Brown Eyed Girl, and Ring of Fire right off the top of my head that use thirds.
The intro to BEG is thirds. The (trumpet) fills in Ring of Fire are thirds. (yes, you can do those on the guitar.....just have to know the key!)

Can you solo using thirds? Absolutely.
Example: (easy to do at home on your computer)
Record yourself playing Dylan's Knocking on Heaven's Door. (If you don't know that song, it's easy......G--D--Am then G--D--C......easy enough, right?) (btw...the Am is really an Am7....but Am is fine just to lay down a simple riff)
So play that through a few times and record it.
Then replay it over (loop it if you want) and use thirds to solo over the top of it.

I feel some revelations coming for some of you......
This is BASIC BASIC BASIC soloing.....and guess what, you will find A LOT of artists that have made it big with songs that just have simple little solos in them. Simplicity is AN O.K. THING.

now, I'm not going to tell you WHERE you start on the fretboard YET to do the solo.
I intentionally left out some info from the last post, but wanted to see if anyone could find the pattern for thirds.
What is the order for major and minor thirds?
How do I know where to start on the fretboard?
What are the SHAPES for major and minor thirds?

(And when I say I "left out some info."....The info. is really there, it's just up to you, right now, to use what you've already learned to figure it out. In a way it's a test. If you can't figure it out, you should probably go over the basics again. Get it in your long-term memory. You don't want it to go away. And there is no sense in me putting OBVIOUS info right in front of your face sometimes. It helps to think about it. Just don't get frustrated....this isn't an overnight thing.)

more to come later....

[Pipsqueak]

pisqueak,
[SNIP] anyways just looking for some insight you seem to know quite a bit..thanks
Mark


I will try to PM you later.

[Dancing Ants]

^^top^^

[Heathcliff]

Just wanted to add my thanks. This was very well done and very helpful

[lightsdown41]

Definately a good idea. I think a lot of guitarists should know plenty more about the purely musical elements of playing. I myself have what I learned in 4 years of band class, and then what I could teach myself in 3 years of guitar playing, but I know I can learn much from this. Thanks a lot.

[JCarey03]

>Top<

[Pipsqueak]

Alrighty...
so the next thing we will dive into is the CAGED system.

Let me just preface this by saying the CAGED system is GOLDEN. Let me also say that you must have a VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY good, solid understanding of EVERYTHING that has been posted in this thread up to this point.
The CAGED system is a "honey hole" for soloing and improvisation. Yes, it will take some time to learn. Knowing the initial methods is not too bad, but once you dive into it, it is an endless system that you will work on for years to come.
Once you have learned your way around the CAGED sysytem, completely understand it, and can move around your fretboard flawlessly.....it is PRICELESS. You will be able to rip-out some great jams.

so....after all that....I will be posting the details soon!

[giddy]

:thumbsup to a lot of the guys learning this stuff..once you learn modes you'll find soloing becomes immensely easier. big props to pipsqueak and go cubs

[Root]

Great thread, thanks for posting, I wish i wasn't so dumb.

[Dancing Ants]

^Top

[JCarey03]

Why is this thread still not stickied to the top??
..Again good job with this thread pip..the moderators seem to not appreciate it but everyone else here does.

[Pipsqueak]

Why is this thread still not stickied to the top??
..Again good job with this thread pip..the moderators seem to not appreciate it but everyone else here does.

Thanks for all the nice comments.

I tried to get it stickied fellas....I even sent Matt an email and asked him if he would.

No luck here. If somebody else would like to ask, go ahead.

I think this and the "Guitar Theory Questions" thread should by sticky. At least this one at a minimum.

[YknSTONE]

PM....Marcelo or Rob or Jake they'll do something!

[myonlybliss]

great stuff

[Dancing Ants]

^^Top^^

[JCarey03]

//<>//

[Soberbeah]

pipsqueak, this is some great stuff. thanks for taking the time to post all this stuff. i've only been playin for about a year now and all this stuff is helping me out so much. just thanks again, appreciate it. this thread should be stickyed, just awesome stuff.

[Soberbeah]

i was wondering if anyone has all the lessons in like organized in like a word file. cause if anyone does can they get it to me somehow, it'd be so much easier to view and use.

[Pipsqueak]

i was wondering if anyone has all the lessons in like organized in like a word file. cause if anyone does can they get it to me somehow, it'd be so much easier to view and use.


unfortunately I don't have ALL the info in word files.....I only have some of it.

much of the information comes from all different places, including my noggin'

the easiest thing might just be to copy and paste from the forum into word files (somebody here was starting to do that)


Oh, and I swear I'll post the CAGED system one of these days.....just been busy. (sorry)

[Soberbeah]

don't worry about it. i was just being lazy and see if someone else did it already haha. i'll just do it myself, and again thanks for all the stuff u posted.

[JTR3512]

Get back up to the top

[JCarey03]

up^^

[mrottondo]

good stuff, shall get a sticky :)

[YknSTONE]

Wicked, Thanks Marcelo!

[Pipsqueak]

awesome!...
thanks
now it will remind me to put some more information in here!

[BrOpus]

thought i'd add an awesome site...

http://www.looknohands.com

[Visslaren]

MusicTheory.net: http://www.musictheory.net/

THANK YOU!!!! I've been searching for a site like this for a year!

[Dan5290]

Why the hell is this stuff so confusing for me? :( I got completely lost at the first post regarding keys and the major scales and what not (I still can't figure out why you use flats sometimes and sharps other times :confused: ). And everything beyond that post just gets even more confusing. AAh this is so f-ing frustrating.:( :violent

EDIT: With that said, I do really appreciate the time you've been putting in to give us these lessons. After all, I do know more now than I did before I opened this thread. So, thank you.

[RushianSyrinx]

Why the hell is this stuff so confusing for me? :( I got completely lost at the first post regarding keys and the major scales and what not (I still can't figure out why you use flats sometimes and sharps other times :confused: ). And everything beyond that post just gets even more confusing. AAh this is so f-ing frustrating.:( :violent

EDIT: With that said, I do really appreciate the time you've been putting in to give us these lessons. After all, I do know more now than I did before I opened this thread. So, thank you.

Just take what you do know and go over that, and go a lil further and then backtrack everything you learned and go a lil further - you have to keep reinforcing everything. Theory is complicated, no doubt. I've been blessed as one of the few who learn something and it'll click a few hours/day or two later.

If you need help, feel free to IM me, IAMPOLISHMAN
and ill give you some poor man theory tips as best i can

[unccrombie]

good news all, i compiled everything pip said (minus the quizzes) into a word file, it's in excess of 35 pages at verdana size 10 font. i'll post it for download either tonight or tomarrow

[unccrombie]

final page count: 37
- each topic has it's own page start

words: 12,868

you guys can edit it if you want, i've at least got the ball moving

download: http://www.itypical.com/john/guitartheory.doc

*right click, save target as. you need microsoft word 97 or higher

[Sender]

Can you please talk more about the CAGED system a little more. My friend ahd a book and was telling me about this and how it was totally the best thing in the entire world.

PLEASE divulge your secert.

Oh, and when are we gettng to tritone subsitution? ;)

[unccrombie]

there hasn't been much activity here in 7 months...hopefully more will come :)

[Pipsqueak]

there hasn't been much activity here in 7 months...hopefully more will come :)


I'm still around.....unfortunately, very busy.

my sob story:

I've been studying for my professional license exam (ARE - Architect Registration Exam) since March of this year. There are 9 parts, and I have taken 5......so 4 more to go!

If you can't tell, the exam has taken up a LOT of my spare time, to the point to where I had to quit taking guitar lessons for a while. :( (the license exam is also very expensive)

So anyway......I'll be done by January of '05, and then I'm hitting the guitar again.
It's really kind of sad, because I haven't picked up my guitar in about 3 weeks. :o

Well, that on top of a full-time job, a wife, and trying to have a summer (what's left of it).....just takes all my time.

but I promise, I will add some more stuff.....including my information on the CAGED system. That's where I left off in this thread, and also in my own practice routines.
It is an AWESOME system.....and I will divulge some information before too long.

I do want to keep this thread going....it's a good refresher and resource for everyone, including myself! :thumbsup

[unccrombie]

^ no problemo, i dont know if you noticed or not but i compiled all you tootaledge (funny spelling there) into a word document. i hope that helps some people out. take all the time you need, there are 35 pages worth of material to get down until you return

[crazy_easy41]

The C-A-G-E-D system is pretty simple if you think of it correctly

ok well there are five major chord shapes and they spell the word caged. if you play an E chord and wanna play an F chord your first finger acts as a capo... as you probably know they are bar chords.. well you do the same thing with all the other shapes they are just using those different shapes.. and if you wanna play an E chord the next step higher the next letter is.... D so the shape will go from

E---0--
B---0-
G---1--
D---2--
A---2--
E---0--

to...

E----4------
B----5------
G----4------
D----2------- <-- the D Shape
A-----------
E---(0)------

and if you wanted it higher it starts over from the last letter to the first... making the d shape where you played the octave i think i'm not sure if thats exactly true.. Then replace it with the C shape (the first letter)

E-----4--
B-----5--
G-----4--
D-----6--
A-----7--
E-----0--
then if you wanted it higher C-A-G-E-D

E---7--
B---9--
G---9--
D---9---
A---7---
E---0---

Hope that helps you a little

[TwoStepFF]

how do you play an - F#?
playing hotel california and I went to guitar chord site and couldnt find this, thanks!

[Rob]

Move up one fret from a regular F.

e-2
B-2
G-3
D-4
A-4
E-2

[TwoStepFF]

Move up one fret from a regular F.

e-2
B-2
G-3
D-4
A-4
E-2
thanks

[il bacio dolce]

Can anybody break this down for me? I don't understand the whole order of flats/order of sharps thing. Also, what is an octave?

Continuing.....

If you haven't done so, it's a good idea to write out all the notes for all the keys. REMEMBER....THESE ARE NOTES....NOT CHORDS! (can't stress that enough)

Also, if you didn't figure it out by now....there are 7 notes in each key, the 8th note brings us back to the octave.

Let's talk about Sharps and Flats for a minute...
Did anybody figure out the pattern?

Well, it turns out that they always fall in the SAME ORDER.

The ORDER OF SHARPS can be remembered by the following:
Funky Cows Get Drunk And Eat Breakfast Food

The ORDER OF FLATS can be remembered by the following:
BEAD G

So, for example:
the key of C has no sharps or flats.
the key of G has one sharp------------>F#
the key of D has two sharps----------->F# and C#
the key of A has three sharps---------->F#, C#, and G#
the key of E has four sharps----------->F#, C#, and G#, D#
and so on...(similar for flats)

So....some more info.
The following keys: C G D A and E are the 5 major guitar keys in music. This is easy to remember because they make the word - CAGED. Some of you may have heard about the CAGED system. (I've even posted it before on this forum.) We will go over that later.
So....
Does anyone see anything in common with the CAGED keys?

They all have sharps and no flats.

Quick quiz:
What key is missing from the CAGED system that also has sharps and no flats? :bounce

[il bacio dolce]

Nevermind guys. What confused me was how he took them out of order for the memory hints. :)

[il bacio dolce]

So now here is something else that doesn't make sense to me:


"The following keys: C G D A and E are the 5 major guitar keys in music. This is easy to remember because they make the word - CAGED. Some of you may have heard about the CAGED system. (I've even posted it before on this forum.) We will go over that later.
So....
Does anyone see anything in common with the CAGED keys?

They all have sharps and no flats."



I don't find any sharps or flats in C major, and then in others I find flats.. even though this says CAGED all have sharps and no flats! What am I doing wrong?
If you start on a C, to make the major scale you move up 2 whole, one half, 3 whole and 1 half, right? So in the C major scale, you get CDEFGABC, right? Next if I take an A major scale I get ABC#DEF#G#A. Right? So it has sharps. Fine. A major using flats is then ABDflatDEGflatAflatA. Why are there flats if CAGED have sharps and no flats?

[JG2121]

C major and A minor are the only keys with no sharps/flats. your doing it right. The above post must mean something else - maybe that none of the major guitar chords are a sharp/flat scale - like a# or g#. Those keys are more difficult to play in standard tuning because you can't use open chords.

[jprzybys]

I don't find any sharps or flats in C major, and then in others I find flats.. even though this says CAGED all have sharps and no flats! What am I doing wrong?
If you start on a C, to make the major scale you move