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-   -   AutoTune (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=240570)

DIDriveOut2SPAC 02-11-2009 12:33 AM

AutoTune
 
Do you think there is any chance Cavallo is employing tools such as AutoTune into the sessions or is he forcing Dave and the band to take all the takes they need to to sound like a real rock band. Can anyone explain his ethics and style in the studio? I have some of his works with bands, but at the moment most of them are archived on another HD.

Discuss techniques you think Cavallo is making in the studio. Concerns. Etc.

mattinbeloit 02-11-2009 12:38 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Well, you have to understand that AutoTune is not always a bad thing. There are too many cases out there (Britney Spears) where it is overused and sounds fake, but other times it can be used simply to fix one little phrase.

Let's say Dave is going through a vocal take and really nails it and thought it was the best take he did, but unfortunately he was a little flat in one spot and the part is too complex to punch in and punch out on. Rather then scrap a great take, AutoTune can be used to fix that one spot/ phrase.

So will Cavallo use AutoTune on the album? Ya, probably. The majority of music coming out these days has been at least touched by autotune. Is Cavallo going to saturate Dave's vocals with it? No.

Candice Smith 02-11-2009 12:42 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
i always wonder: how does someone learn how to produce an album, use all functions, tools and buttons ? do they go to school or just learn ? I also wonder if there are any relevant producers that can't play instruments.

TGaucho 02-11-2009 12:43 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
it does worry me a bit, actually. I still like Cavallo as a choice for producer, and i don't personally believe that he ever used it in his work with Green Day, but the Fleetwood Mac record that he did sounded way too clean, and The Black Parade is probably questionable (could go either way based on the times i listened to it).

In the end it's all up to the integrity of the band, specifically Dave (as the vocalist). I can't believe that Cavallo would apply that kind of filter/program to the tracks without consulting Dave first, so if there's any autotune then the onus would lie entirely on Dave for that decision.

Also, i'm sure that this would hardly be the first time that Dave and the boys would be confronted with that choice. I have no doubt that Baston (and probably other producers that they've worked with post-Lillywhite) have used it in the past, or are at least quite familiar with it, and i'm sure that it's been an option before now in that repect. If you can make one of the best drummers in the world sound like a fucking drum machine, then you are certainly knee deep in that kind of filtering/digital editing technology. So i guess one relevant question would be, was it used on Stand Up at all (in your opinion)?

DIDriveOut2SPAC 02-11-2009 12:46 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
I ask because also one of my favorite DIY artists is Ben Kweller and a couple of his Studio Album are recorded "Live" meaning no fancy mastering or production tools, just tracks from different takes. I think it sounds amazing.

TGaucho 02-11-2009 12:48 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Candice Smith (Post 8865234)
i always wonder: how does someone learn how to produce an album, use all functions, tools and buttons ? do they go to school or just learn ? I also wonder if there are any relevant producers that can't play instruments.

well each person takes their own path to that knowledge/those skills. This interview is interesting and gives pretty excellent insight into Cavallo's particular credentials and history:

http://www.crazedhits.com/interview-rob-cavallo/

TGaucho 02-11-2009 12:53 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DIDriveOut2SPAC (Post 8865263)
I ask because also one of my favorite DIY artists is Ben Kweller and a couple of his Studio Album are recorded "Live" meaning no fancy mastering or production tools, just tracks from different takes. I think it sounds amazing.

KT Tunstall did a record like that last year (Acoustic Extravaganza) that was extremely cool. They recorded it in one day at this old house in Scotland, most of them sitting in the same room (i think the drummer was upstairs or something), and there was no production layered on top of it. And, yeah, it sounded very warm and live. I wish more musicians did that kind of thing. David Gray's Lost Songs was similar in its authenticity.

tparker 02-11-2009 12:53 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattinbeloit (Post 8865205)
Well, you have to understand that AutoTune is not always a bad thing. There are too many cases out there (Britney Spears) where it is overused and sounds fake, but other times it can be used simply to fix one little phrase.

Let's say Dave is going through a vocal take and really nails it and thought it was the best take he did, but unfortunately he was a little flat in one spot and the part is too complex to punch in and punch out on. Rather then scrap a great take, AutoTune can be used to fix that one spot/ phrase.

So will Cavallo use AutoTune on the album? Ya, probably. The majority of music coming out these days has been at least touched by autotune. Is Cavallo going to saturate Dave's vocals with it? No.


The term autotune is typically used in reference to the auto program that is used to tune voices and it is also typically used to BE noticed in songs, at least in these times, it wasn't developed as that but thats how its used. You can tune voices/instruments without using actual autotune. For example if Dave did hit one note they would go in specifically and fix that not use autotune. Just thought i would throw that out there. So i highly extremely doubt they'll use autotune as in the electronic voice effect like T.I. is doing a lot now but like you said most likely will adjust the pitch of Dave's voice sometime on the cd.

TGaucho 02-11-2009 12:56 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...iid=digg_share

tparker 02-11-2009 12:59 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
^^^ good article. They can even do that stuff live now, take a listen to some pop bands live and you can hear it. I always hate when they try and hide it cause its so freaking obvious to me.

Actually i listen to a lot of electronica/pop bands and love it when they use it as an effect, however its getting really really too popular these days.

TGaucho 02-11-2009 01:02 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tparker (Post 8865324)
^^^ good article. They can even do that stuff live now, take a listen to some pop bands live and you can hear it. I always hate when they try and hide it cause its so freaking obvious to me.

Actually i listen to a lot of electronica/pop bands and love it when they use it as an effect, however its getting really really too popular these days.

i know what you mean, i've heard it used live as well. Too, i agree that it can be a cool effect, but yeah. It's become an effect run amok. :(

GraceIsGone40 02-11-2009 02:10 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
MHMF has a lot of it. I think just about every wail on DDTW was autotuned, and most of the falsettos on #41 - there's no way Dave hit every one of those notes. I don't think it sounds bad, it's noticeable, but not bad. It adds a bit of an echo effect though.

mattinbeloit 02-11-2009 02:23 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tparker (Post 8865301)
The term autotune is typically used in reference to the auto program that is used to tune voices and it is also typically used to BE noticed in songs, at least in these times, it wasn't developed as that but thats how its used. You can tune voices/instruments without using actual autotune. For example if Dave did hit one note they would go in specifically and fix that not use autotune. Just thought i would throw that out there. So i highly extremely doubt they'll use autotune as in the electronic voice effect like T.I. is doing a lot now but like you said most likely will adjust the pitch of Dave's voice sometime on the cd.

Well ya, people like TI and Kanye over use it as an effect. But I have used autotune to fix certain small mess ups. A lot of times singers get ready to hold a long note and when they start out they are a little flat but work up to pitch. I'll throw it on just to bring it up to pitch, more times I've used it when people start out sharp and work down to pitch. It's not always a big deal when people work up to pitch, but when they start sharp and go down, not kosher.

But many times autotune is great when used in a very slight manner. If you've recorded before you understand the concept of bussing, but for everyone else I'll explain a little bit. Take for instance a recording where you have background vocals holding a note to support the main singer. In the mix, those tracks are generally mixed lower and sometimes are hardly there. If you have 5 people singing that background part, you can "buss" all five vocal parts into 1 mono or a stereo track and edit them as a whole. When I've mixed background singers, many times I've thrown auto tune on them because it glues everything together and helps them punch through a busy mix. Again, they are background vocals so it's not a very loud part but it makes them sound better in a supporting way.

Having said that, I really do hate autotune when used on main vocals to the point where it sounds fake (And is not being used for artistic purposes) and too perfect. I like little imperfections in vocals because it's realer to me. Also, if I have the option to use autotune to fix a little part vs. having the artist try the take again, I will always try to make them do the take again. So like I said before, autotune will probably be used on the record, but I doubt it will be saturating Daves vocals...

zajDmB1 02-11-2009 02:29 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tparker (Post 8865301)
The term autotune is typically used in reference to the auto program that is used to tune voices and it is also typically used to BE noticed in songs, at least in these times, it wasn't developed as that but thats how its used. You can tune voices/instruments without using actual autotune. For example if Dave did hit one note they would go in specifically and fix that not use autotune. Just thought i would throw that out there. So i highly extremely doubt they'll use autotune as in the electronic voice effect like T.I. is doing a lot now but like you said most likely will adjust the pitch of Dave's voice sometime on the cd.

There is a lot of instances where autotune is used to hide the fact that many people can't sing as perfect as you need to sound on a record, and much of this stays hidden from wide knowledge. T-Pain, Kanye, etc, use extreme settings with autotune to purposely hear it, but it used for much more than that. I'm sure someone like Dave has the self-respect to want to be able to hit the notes himself, and we all know he has the ability to, so I'm sure DMB uses punch-ins/alternate takes more than anything.

TGaucho 02-11-2009 02:46 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattinbeloit (Post 8865491)
Well ya, people like TI and Kanye over use it as an effect. But I have used autotune to fix certain small mess ups. A lot of times singers get ready to hold a long note and when they start out they are a little flat but work up to pitch. I'll throw it on just to bring it up to pitch, more times I've used it when people start out sharp and work down to pitch. It's not always a big deal when people work up to pitch, but when they start sharp and go down, not kosher.

But many times autotune is great when used in a very slight manner. If you've recorded before you understand the concept of bussing, but for everyone else I'll explain a little bit. Take for instance a recording where you have background vocals holding a note to support the main singer. In the mix, those tracks are generally mixed lower and sometimes are hardly there. If you have 5 people singing that background part, you can "buss" all five vocal parts into 1 mono or a stereo track and edit them as a whole. When I've mixed background singers, many times I've thrown auto tune on them because it glues everything together and helps them punch through a busy mix. Again, they are background vocals so it's not a very loud part but it makes them sound better in a supporting way.

Having said that, I really do hate autotune when used on main vocals to the point where it sounds fake (And is not being used for artistic purposes) and too perfect. I like little imperfections in vocals because it's realer to me. Also, if I have the option to use autotune to fix a little part vs. having the artist try the take again, I will always try to make them do the take again. So like I said before, autotune will probably be used on the record, but I doubt it will be saturating Daves vocals...

that's all very interesting. Thanks for sharing your experiences : )

Ghosts on TV 02-11-2009 03:06 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Bon Iver overly uses it on the song "Woods" to great effect.

bigeyedfish190 02-11-2009 08:58 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghosts on TV (Post 8865524)
Bon Iver overly uses it on the song "Woods" to great effect.

I know I'm in the minority, but I think that a natural sounding a capella take would have been better.

I don't think autotune is evil or anything. I don't really mind if they use it on a studio record either. If it gets the sound they are going for on the record, then cool, go for it. However, I really hate the idea of using autotune on a live cd, for dave, boyd, or anyone else. It's a live cd. Let the mistakes be charming.

bibby1044 02-11-2009 09:07 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
^ I agree.

MikeTheStone 02-11-2009 10:13 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
I think the grittiness of Daves voice adds to the song...Music is human...keep it imperfect.

DIDriveOut2SPAC 02-11-2009 10:13 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeTheStone (Post 8866119)
I think the grittiness of Daves voice adds to the song...Music is human...keep it imperfect.

:thumbsup

DIDriveOut2SPAC 02-11-2009 02:34 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Interesting Article

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009...utie-auto-tune

antseyedgraves 01-23-2011 10:05 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattinbeloit (Post 8865205)
Well, you have to understand that AutoTune is not always a bad thing. There are too many cases out there (Britney Spears) where it is overused and sounds fake, but other times it can be used simply to fix one little phrase.

Let's say Dave is going through a vocal take and really nails it and thought it was the best take he did, but unfortunately he was a little flat in one spot and the part is too complex to punch in and punch out on. Rather then scrap a great take, AutoTune can be used to fix that one spot/ phrase.

So will Cavallo use AutoTune on the album? Ya, probably. The majority of music coming out these days has been at least touched by auto-tune. Is Cavallo going to saturate Dave's vocals with it? No.

This is what I don't agree with. Auto-tune is the line crosser to me. Singers have had the benefits of singing separate to the group at an entirely different time and also to drop in and out every few words or lines. If you can't get a take right after trying it 10-20 times, come back to it later or if you don't have time, rewrite the line cause it's obviously too much for you to handle. Fixing it with a computer makes you a hack. If it's the producer doing it without the singer's input, then they need to go to the singer and tell them what they should do and not throw it through a pitch correction program.

This crap is ruining the integrity of music. There's no way to reach the heights of amazing-ness like we've heard of great vocalists in the past by using computers. It is the undoing of talent and substitution of stupidity. The art of singing is how you get to the note and how you hit it; auto-tune, melodyne etc., takes this beautiful work out of the equation. If you agree with the use of auto-tune for pitch correction no matter how little or big, you are apart of the reason why I have lost faith in music past year 2000 or so. If you're okay with a singer being auto-tuned, then maybe you should just listen to a robot singing instead. :mad

manderso 01-23-2011 10:53 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by antseyedgraves (Post 12223596)
This is what I don't agree with. Auto-tune is the line crosser to me. Singers have had the benefits of singing separate to the group at an entirely different time and also to drop in and out every few words or lines. If you can't get a take right after trying it 10-20 times, come back to it later or if you don't have time, rewrite the line cause it's obviously too much for you to handle. Fixing it with a computer makes you a hack. If it's the producer doing it without the singer's input, then they need to go to the singer and tell them what they should do and not throw it through a pitch correction program.

This crap is ruining the integrity of music. There's no way to reach the heights of amazing-ness like we've heard of great vocalists in the past by using computers. It is the undoing of talent and substitution of stupidity. The art of singing is how you get to the note and how you hit it; auto-tune, melodyne etc., takes this beautiful work out of the equation. If you agree with the use of auto-tune for pitch correction no matter how little or big, you are apart of the reason why I have lost faith in music past year 2000 or so. If you're okay with a singer being auto-tuned, then maybe you should just listen to a robot singing instead. :mad

Well Dave has been auto tuned, so I guess Dave is a hack.

MGH4007 01-24-2011 03:39 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattinbeloit (Post 8865205)

Let's say Dave is going through a vocal take and really nails it and thought it was the best take he did, but unfortunately he was a little flat in one spot and the part is too complex to punch in and punch out on. Rather then scrap a great take, AutoTune can be used to fix that one spot/ phrase.

Which raises the question. What it really a good take if he was flat, sharp, or off rhythm a bit?

MGH4007 01-24-2011 04:34 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MGH4007 (Post 12225961)
Which raises the question. What it really a good take if he was flat, sharp, or off rhythm a bit?

I can't type today. Was it***

hflsmg17317 02-15-2011 11:19 AM

Re: AutoTune
 
All i know is that autotuning ruined the radio city album. I found the fan recording to spare my self. Listen to bartender on the dmb website from that album. Whoever is responsible for that ruined that album. It was sloppy and took away from it.

So i think d&T and dmb sounds worse with it.

Luv4Roi 07-13-2011 06:38 PM

Re: AutoTune
 
Probably Melodyne not AutoTune. Melodyne corrects vocals, but in a very natural way so as not to get that robotic effect.


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