Dave Matthew's Songwriting

[Banjo]

Can anyone tell me where Dave gets his songwriting from, not necessarily the lyrics, I know those come from all kinds of his experiences, but where does he get his chords or crazy progressions from? I'd love to pick his mind for a day and figure out where he comes up with all these original riffs/licks or melodies. I'm sure he obviously gets help by basing things off other people in the band's ideas but when he was solo, he was said to have sat in his room and come up with complex songs.
So that being said could anyone enlighten me on this matter? thanks

[Gaijin86]

Wikipedia, probably.

[bila]

he sat there in his room for fucking years, then headed over the pond to get even more ideas and made himself one of the most original acoustic players of the time. maybe some drugs were involved too

[andrewj063]

Originally Posted by bila

he sat there in his room for fucking years and made himself one of the most original acoustic players of the time. maybe some drugs were involved too

Is there any fact behind this statement? I've always wondered it.

[bluesbrother41]

Originally Posted by andrewj063

Is there any fact behind this statement? I've always wondered it.

he and tim did shrooms back in the early charlottesville days, from the So Damn Lucky documentary on the RCMH dvd.

also, check out this link for an interesting read about dave's guitar style.
http://www.dmbtabs.com/lessons.php?id=1

[gunnar1104]

If you understand music and chord structure his chords aren't too out there. And I'm guessing that he started on piano and took a major chord (1-3-5) off a pinao and and put the exact notes on a guitar. If you do that and form an octave over the third you will have a "Dave Chord". Also flat the third and you will have Dave's minor chord.

[Bartender#40]

Originally Posted by bila

he sat there in his room for fucking years, then headed over the pond to get even more ideas and made himself one of the most original acoustic players of the time. maybe some drugs were involved too

Tripping Billies

[jas230314]

Originally Posted by gunnar1104

If you understand music and chord structure his chords aren't too out there. And I'm guessing that he started on piano and took a major chord (1-3-5) off a pinao and and put the exact notes on a guitar. If you do that and form an octave over the third you will have a "Dave Chord". Also flat the third and you will have Dave's minor chord.

Best explanation I have ever heard for his odd technique. The fingering positions come from his original background as a pianist as a kid, and the rhythms surely come from his experiences in south africa.

[SpecialAgent007]

What Dave technically does isn't so outlandish. His chord harmonies aren't really anything that hasn't been done somehow before. His rhythm style is also not exactly revolutionary. His riffs are just riffs. I'm not saying this to be demeaning, it's just not all the most unique stuff. What makes it sound different with Dave is that he does a lot of electric guitar type playing on acoustic. Typically, say, Hendrix, would play stuff like Dave writes at times but it'd be on the electric and more ornamented and explosive; more lead and volume due to electric. Dave takes that kind of mentality of lead-rhythm playing and does it on acoustic usually. And a lot of the "Dave" chords are just common jazz chords.

Another thing he does is that he sometimes makes things more complicated almost for no reason. Many of his stretches aren't necessary in some ways and he could do songs like Crash with a capo and play in D as opposed to basing it off a minor7 chord and basically barring it for the capo effect instead. It's not really bad, just kinda odd. You can do a lot of things he does far easier with little noticeable difference. So basically what I'm saying with that is that at times I think he probably took fairly simple ideas in one key and then found a way to make it work in another key without using a capo. This creates an interesting timbre and different chord voice options at times.

So really, in many ways Dave's style is fairly familiar, but, it's just a little different; sometimes a little more odd. But hey, it works. The guys sold a hell of a lot of records so he did something right.

[gunnar1104]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

What Dave technically does isn't so outlandish. His chord harmonies aren't really anything that hasn't been done somehow before. His rhythm style is also not exactly revolutionary. His riffs are just riffs. I'm not saying this to be demeaning, it's just not all the most unique stuff. What makes it sound different with Dave is that he does a lot of electric guitar type playing on acoustic. Typically, say, Hendrix, would play stuff like Dave writes at times but it'd be on the electric and more ornamented and explosive; more lead and volume due to electric. Dave takes that kind of mentality of lead-rhythm playing and does it on acoustic usually. And a lot of the "Dave" chords are just common jazz chords.

Another thing he does is that he sometimes makes things more complicated almost for no reason. Many of his stretches aren't necessary in some ways and he could do songs like Crash with a capo and play in D as opposed to basing it off a minor7 chord and basically barring it for the capo effect instead. It's not really bad, just kinda odd. You can do a lot of things he does far easier with little noticeable difference. So basically what I'm saying with that is that at times I think he probably took fairly simple ideas in one key and then found a way to make it work in another key without using a capo. This creates an interesting timbre and different chord voice options at times.

So really, in many ways Dave's style is fairly familiar, but, it's just a little different; sometimes a little more odd. But hey, it works. The guys sold a hell of a lot of records so he did something right.

There are really only two chords that I've only seen in Dave's music. The one's in captain for example. However, some like the ones from the WWYS Jam and Crash are more common.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by gunnar1104

There are really only two chords that I've only seen in Dave's music. The one's in captain for example. However, some like the ones from the WWYS Jam and Crash are more common.

Crash and WWYS feature very common chords.

The chords in Captain are just mi9 chords more or less in a strange fingering. Probably more like a mi add9. Usually the 5th is dropped in the voicing of mi9 chords leaving 1 b3 7 and 9 whereas Dave's is 1 b3 5 9. It's like a minor version of a Cadd9 that everyone and their mother plays. Again, Dave just does it without the capo so it yields that big stretch. I believe I have seen chords similar if not identical to that in some classical guitar repertoire I've played. I think in a couple Bach pieces of all things, though they were originally composed for violin and later transposed to fit on guitar. I think. I'm trying to forget about classical guitar for awhile now that I'm done with it in school........

[Socks]

I think the main idea behind the Dave chords is to give them a stronger percussive edge. They're not as full as standard chord shapes, so it's more of a quick strike than a strummy sound.

[solsburyhill]

South motherfucking Africa is where it comes from

[gunnar1104]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

Crash and WWYS feature very common chords.

The chords in Captain are just mi9 chords more or less in a strange fingering. Probably more like a mi add9. Usually the 5th is dropped in the voicing of mi9 chords leaving 1 b3 7 and 9 whereas Dave's is 1 b3 5 9. It's like a minor version of a Cadd9 that everyone and their mother plays. Again, Dave just does it without the capo so it yields that big stretch. I believe I have seen chords similar if not identical to that in some classical guitar repertoire I've played. I think in a couple Bach pieces of all things, though they were originally composed for violin and later transposed to fit on guitar. I think. I'm trying to forget about classical guitar for awhile now that I'm done with it in school........

Having those notes being transcribed from another instrument and forming those chords helps my point. And obviously you're heavily trained in music so you have seen more chords and such. To an average guitarist (like most frat boys who cover Dave Matthews with their hats on backwards) are like, "OMGz wtf iz taht!?!".

Also, capos are for women.

[Socks]

Another signature Dave thing is a lot of fifths

Satellite, #34, Dressed in Black, he likes the fifths

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by Socks

I think the main idea behind the Dave chords is to give them a stronger percussive edge. They're not as full as standard chord shapes, so it's more of a quick strike than a strummy sound.

And deeper as well as they're played more often than not on the wound strings as opposed to the unwound strings.

[gunnar1104]

Originally Posted by solsburyhill

South motherfucking Africa is where it comes from

Nope, that's where is sense of rhythm comes from.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by Socks

Another signature Dave thing is a lot of fifths

Satellite, #34, Dressed in Black, he likes the fifths

Stacked fifths! Or add9 chords again. 1 5 9. Message in a bottle...........................................E very breath you take............The Police.......who doesn't love that shit? One of the greatest bands ever.

[jas230314]

Originally Posted by solsburyhill

South motherfucking Africa is where it comes from

This is the answer. The theory stuff is technically correct, but there is a reason dave uses certain stretches... it sounds different and slight things like that can change the sound enough to add a lot to the song.

[solsburyhill]

Originally Posted by gunnar1104

Nope, that's where is sense of rhythm comes from.

That's what I was implying came from Africa. Yea, the written notes for his guitar are fairly unique (at least not found in pop music a lot), but his rhythm is what separates him. His percussive, muting style is amazing.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by jas230314

This is the answer. The theory stuff is technically correct, but there is a reason dave uses certain stretches... it sounds different and slight things like that can change the sound enough to add a lot to the song.

Changes the timbre. That's what's interesting about Dave is that in so many cases, he's playing fairly simple, familiar stuff in a sense but it still manages to sound different because of those little twists he throws in.

[Socks]

Big Eyed Fish has a pretty cool maj7 shape that I don't think I've seen elsewhere

E:----
B:-3--
G:-x--
D:-4--
A:-2--
E:-3--

[gunnar1104]

Originally Posted by Socks

Big Eyed Fish has a pretty cool maj7 shape that I don't think I've seen elsewhere

E:----
B:-3--
G:-x--
D:-4--
A:-2--
E:-3--

Say Goodbye?

I know this from somewhere else, give me a minute...

[bubba40]

Originally Posted by gunnar1104

If you understand music and chord structure his chords aren't too out there. And I'm guessing that he started on piano and took a major chord (1-3-5) off a pinao and and put the exact notes on a guitar. If you do that and form an octave over the third you will have a "Dave Chord". Also flat the third and you will have Dave's minor chord.

That, African music, and the Beatles

[solsburyhill]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

Changes the timbre. That's what's interesting about Dave is that in so many cases, he's playing fairly simple, familiar stuff in a sense but it still manages to sound different because of those little twists he throws in.

Like Two Step. Completely different song without the "Dave chords"

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by Socks

Big Eyed Fish has a pretty cool maj7 shape that I don't think I've seen elsewhere

E:----
B:-3--
G:-x--
D:-4--
A:-2--
E:-3--

It's been around quite a bit actually though it tends to exist more as a passing chord. It's actually fairly common in folkier/songwriterish music to see that chord because it's basically a G chord but you pull that pinky off and put it up to get the 7 of the chord for a Gmaj7. It's kinda like an easy way to go from a major to a major7 without a major finger shift. If you were to play jazz chord equivalents it's more awkward. I hate them in fact. You hear it a lot when descending melodic lines are being played inside the chord. Something like...

320033, 32403X, 3X203X, 3X003 and then usually they hit a IV chord which is C in this key and it usually just goes back to a G major chord.

[Socks]

Originally Posted by bubba40

That, African music, and the Beatles

Also throw in some Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by solsburyhill

Like Two Step. Completely different song without the "Dave chords"

Yeah, it's almost like a chordal riff if that makes any sense.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by Socks

Also throw in some Paul Simon and Peter Gabriel

Definitely Hendrix too. Nice call on Simon and Gabriel. Sting/The Police are VERY big as well.

[gunnar1104]

Originally Posted by solsburyhill

Like Two Step. Completely different song without the "Dave chords"

You bring up a good point. If anyone here has tried to play a DMB song with the more traditional versions of the chords you know how messed up it sounds. Really excentuates the contrast between Dave's fingerings and commonly used ones.