Should Negro League records be included with MLB records - Antsmarching.org Forums

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 02:55 PM

Vote away

theTabasco®Kid · 07-17-2003, 02:59 PM

Should we roll USFL reconds in with NFL records? (guys like Warren Moon and Jim Kelley would really benefit) But, no, we don't. It was simply a different league.

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theTabasco®Kid
It was simply a different league.

Simply a different league? They COULDN'T play in MLB because of the color of their skin. Verrrrrry simple.

Obsessor Of 41 · 07-17-2003, 03:05 PM

Different League, Different Stats, Different Players. They should not be included, and racism has nothing to do with it.

theTabasco®Kid · 07-17-2003, 03:08 PM

Okayyyyyyyyyyy... I was talking about the USFL.. Making a comparison. Breathe.

If you want to turn this into a "Was it wrong to segregate players into two leagues based on skin color?" thread, then call it that.

I'm saying that since they were two different leagues, then the records are different, and should be kept separate.

Obsessor Of 41 · 07-17-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by theTabasco®Kid
Okayyyyyyyyyyy... I was talking about the USFL.. Making a comparison. Breathe.

If you want to turn this into a "Was it wrong to segregate players into two leagues based on skin color?" thread, then call it that.

I'm saying that since they were two different leagues, then the records are different, and should be kept separate.

Exactly.

RuggerSelkie · 07-17-2003, 03:43 PM

What about Sadaharu Oh?

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by landsharkrugger
What about Sadaharu Oh?

I don't think he wasn't allowed to play in the MLB.

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Obsessor Of 41
Different League, Different Stats, Different Players. They should not be included, and racism has nothing to do with it.

I think racism has to play into it when you realize that the Negro leagues was created because of segregation.

RuggerSelkie · 07-17-2003, 03:52 PM

No. I just mentioned him for the sake of mentioning him.

Somehow, MLB is the biggest and best league ever. That's not all entirely true.

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by landsharkrugger
No. I just mentioned him for the sake of mentioning him.

Somehow, MLB is the biggest and best league ever. That's not all entirely true.

Well, they did name it the WORLD Series, so it must be, right?

Obsessor Of 41 · 07-17-2003, 03:55 PM

Not to mention, if I were a former Negro League player right now in my late 90's and I caught news of a movement trying to get my own stats included to the MLB's stat archive, I don't think I would like that. That makes it seem like it would be a privelige or honor to FINALLY be included. I would be proud of my accomplishments as a Negro League player rather then fight for my stats to be ALLOWED into the MLB archive. Also, who says they want their stats included? They might be proud of the Negro Leagues.

PS: Just a thought. I'm not a former Negro Leaguer.

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 04:05 PM

Negro league players have been trying to get them included since the league ended basically. Satchel Paige, one of the greatest pitchers ever, has been leading the charge. From what I understand, they are proud to have played in the league, but want the stats included because of the reasons for the league. I also don't think Bonds would be talking about it and fighting for it if it was a moot point to the Negro leaguers. Willie Mays and I believe his dad also started there. . .

gregory311 · 07-17-2003, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tenorion78
Satchel Paige, one of the greatest pitchers ever, has been leading the charge.

Todd, I hope you mean his stats.

Satchel Page has been dead for over 20 years.

J.

Tenorion78 · 07-17-2003, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by gregory311
Todd, I hope you mean his stats.

Satchel Page has been dead for over 20 years.

J.

Yeah, wow, I see how that read. I meant his stats are one of the preeminent reasons to include them.

Kramer · 07-17-2003, 05:21 PM

they shouldn't be part of MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL records, but as for anything to do with the hall of fame, most definately. Kenny was just saying that the actual stats are not from MLB and therefore regardless of why they couldn't play ML baseball, they are not ML stats. I think players like paige and gibson deserve all the same recognition as MLB player, but their stats shouldn't be mixed together.

saygoodbye12 · 07-17-2003, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tenorion78
Negro league players have been trying to get them included since the league ended basically. Satchel Paige, one of the greatest pitchers ever, has been leading the charge. From what I understand, they are proud to have played in the league, but want the stats included because of the reasons for the league.

I'm confused...how is he leading the charge if he is dead and has been for a LONG time?

What players that actually played in the league are fighting for the stats to be included?

Mathers420 · 07-17-2003, 06:20 PM

it was not MLB, regardless of why it wasn't

saygoodbye12 · 07-17-2003, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Obsessor Of 41
Different League, Different Stats, Different Players. They should not be included, and racism has nothing to do with it.

It's also a fact that the stats from that league are unreliable and inaccurate.

A lot of times they didn't even keep stats.

So how can they be included? The players of course should be recognized, as people have posted, but I don't see how you could include stats that were not kept the way they should be.

Check out a book called Invisible Men: Life in baseball's Negro Leagues by Donn Rogosin. He goes into great detail about it.

ODB4LYFE · 07-17-2003, 07:25 PM

the quality of play may very well have been inferior in the negro leagues...and that doesnt make me racist

recentlytrippin · 07-17-2003, 07:30 PM

You can't combine them. They are different leagues.

Examples:
NFL
CFL
Arena Football
NFL Europe
NCAA Football

Should we combine all of these records.

MLB
AAA
AA
A
Japan League
NCAA

TheMadViolin · 07-17-2003, 08:12 PM

I think it would cheapen the stats by allowing them to be included. Let people now look at the negro league in wonder at how talented some of those guys are..... but the second you mix it with MLB stats, people are just going to say "Well, they didn't have to face the pitchers, blah blah blah"

ODB4LYFE · 07-17-2003, 08:55 PM

i kicked ass in little league

should my stats be included?

TheMadViolin · 07-17-2003, 09:20 PM

I sit a little league record by getting hit by a pitch 5 times in two games.... or 5 times in 6 at bats. 2 in the first game, 3 in the next.
It is my shining accomplishment of pain of which I received the ever so fond nickname of Magnet Man

View Poll Results: Well, should they?
No, I'm a racist, it was an inferior league	3	9.38%
No, I'm not a racist, its not the MLB	19	59.38%
Yep	9	28.13%
Maybe, I like Hootie	1	3.13%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

07-17-2003, 02:59 PM	#2
theTabasco®Kid Stupid Refs Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 4,701 Shows Seen: 6 DMB Hub Stubs: 8 My Tour Central Stats	Should we roll USFL reconds in with NFL records? (guys like Warren Moon and Jim Kelley would really benefit) But, no, we don't. It was simply a different league. __________________ ~Kenny [SIZE=1]"Ever have a craving for cocktail weiners? If so, me too. If not, me neither." - a friend who shall remain nameless[/SIZE]

07-17-2003, 03:08 PM	#5
theTabasco®Kid Stupid Refs Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Colorado Springs Posts: 4,701 Shows Seen: 6 DMB Hub Stubs: 8 My Tour Central Stats	Okayyyyyyyyyyy... I was talking about the USFL.. Making a comparison. Breathe. If you want to turn this into a "Was it wrong to segregate players into two leagues based on skin color?" thread, then call it that. I'm saying that since they were two different leagues, then the records are different, and should be kept separate. __________________ ~Kenny [SIZE=1]"Ever have a craving for cocktail weiners? If so, me too. If not, me neither." - a friend who shall remain nameless[/SIZE]

07-17-2003, 03:55 PM	#12
Obsessor Of 41 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri. Posts: 5,379 Shows Seen: 5 DMB Hub Stubs: 4 My Tour Central Stats	Not to mention, if I were a former Negro League player right now in my late 90's and I caught news of a movement trying to get my own stats included to the MLB's stat archive, I don't think I would like that. That makes it seem like it would be a privelige or honor to FINALLY be included. I would be proud of my accomplishments as a Negro League player rather then fight for my stats to be ALLOWED into the MLB archive. Also, who says they want their stats included? They might be proud of the Negro Leagues. PS: Just a thought. I'm not a former Negro Leaguer. Last edited by Obsessor Of 41; 07-17-2003 at 03:56 PM.

07-17-2003, 07:25 PM	#20
ODB4LYFE 5-2 (0-0) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,210 Shows Seen: 0 DMB Hub Stubs: 2 My Tour Central Stats	the quality of play may very well have been inferior in the negro leagues...and that doesnt make me racist __________________ Preview Guster's New Album The Airport- A Guster Discussion Board Gregb486: ur a fucking ass hole, if no one tells you something how are you supposed to know?

07-17-2003, 03:05 PM	#4
Obsessor Of 41 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: St. Louis, Missouri. Posts: 5,379 Shows Seen: 5 DMB Hub Stubs: 4 My Tour Central Stats	Different League, Different Stats, Different Players. They should not be included, and racism has nothing to do with it.

07-17-2003, 03:43 PM	#7
RuggerSelkie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,190 Shows Seen: 0 DMB Hub Stubs: 2 My Tour Central Stats	What about Sadaharu Oh?

07-17-2003, 03:52 PM	#10
RuggerSelkie Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 15,190 Shows Seen: 0 DMB Hub Stubs: 2 My Tour Central Stats	No. I just mentioned him for the sake of mentioning him. Somehow, MLB is the biggest and best league ever. That's not all entirely true.

07-17-2003, 05:21 PM	#16
Kramer What the deuce?! Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Lake Tittykaka Posts: 1,391 Shows Seen: 0 DMB Hub Stubs: 2 My Tour Central Stats	they shouldn't be part of MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL records, but as for anything to do with the hall of fame, most definately. Kenny was just saying that the actual stats are not from MLB and therefore regardless of why they couldn't play ML baseball, they are not ML stats. I think players like paige and gibson deserve all the same recognition as MLB player, but their stats shouldn't be mixed together.

07-17-2003, 07:30 PM	#21
recentlytrippin Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 8,044 Shows Seen: 41 DMB Hub Stubs: 17 My Tour Central Stats	You can't combine them. They are different leagues. Examples: NFL CFL Arena Football NFL Europe NCAA Football Should we combine all of these records. MLB AAA AA A Japan League NCAA

07-17-2003, 08:12 PM	#22
TheMadViolin I'm lost Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2,921 Shows Seen: 2 DMB Hub Stubs: 4 My Tour Central Stats	I think it would cheapen the stats by allowing them to be included. Let people now look at the negro league in wonder at how talented some of those guys are..... but the second you mix it with MLB stats, people are just going to say "Well, they didn't have to face the pitchers, blah blah blah" __________________ Evan [SIZE="2"]hisclothingwasaflame[/SIZE]

07-17-2003, 08:55 PM	#23
ODB4LYFE 5-2 (0-0) Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 2,210 Shows Seen: 0 DMB Hub Stubs: 2 My Tour Central Stats	i kicked ass in little league should my stats be included? __________________ Preview Guster's New Album The Airport- A Guster Discussion Board Gregb486: ur a fucking ass hole, if no one tells you something how are you supposed to know?

07-17-2003, 09:20 PM	#24
TheMadViolin I'm lost Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 2,921 Shows Seen: 2 DMB Hub Stubs: 4 My Tour Central Stats	I sit a little league record by getting hit by a pitch 5 times in two games.... or 5 times in 6 at bats. 2 in the first game, 3 in the next. It is my shining accomplishment of pain of which I received the ever so fond nickname of Magnet Man __________________ Evan [SIZE="2"]hisclothingwasaflame[/SIZE]

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