Why can't sets be more unpredictable?

[TheStone91]

Been thinking about this for a while and figured I'd make a thread about it...

So, is there a reason I'm missing as to why sets can't be more varied (I'm talking more about song placement in sets, not actual song selection...that's a whole other issue)?

One of the best things about going to a live show for me is not knowing what song is going to be played next. I feel like each show on a tour should have a unique opener, closer, and encore for as many songs as this band has in its catalog. I wish I had no idea what the opener was going to be each show. It seems like each tour has its go-to openers/closers/encores. For example, songs like Squirm, Don't Drink the Water, Big Eyed Fish are usually openers. Ants, Two Step, Watchtower either close the main set or encore...etc. etc. So, usually you have a good idea what's gonna come next or how a show will end.

Imagine how much more exciting a tour would be if we didn't have a clear guess as to what was going to be played each night in the power slots as well as in the middle of a set (i.e. Crush being played in the 4-8 slot almost every time). The band would get to test out different ways of constructing a creative set from night to night, making it interesting for them as well.

Why not open with Warehouse one show and have it close the encore the next night? What's there to lose?

I know other people feel frustrated at times with this issue, so what do ya'll think? Is it too late to expect Dave to get crazy with his set writing?

[YankeesDMB41]

One man writes the sets...they are as unpredictable as he wants them to be. This lineup of DMB has played LITERALLY 99% of the catalog, so every song could be on the table if said set writer wanted them to be /thread

[lockman21]

Here's the thing...Dave has never been real good at writing setlists. He just used to have a lot less shitty songs to pick from.

[highlanders]

If Fonz wrote the set list for one show and Dave couldn't say no... we'd get probably:

1. monkey man
2. grey street 3rd verse
3. let you down
4. last stop
5. dreaming tree

[lockman21]

There are a lot of things that perplex me and frustrate me with this band. One is the setlist writing.

There are a billion examples that I could come up with over the past couple years. If you start beating yourself up over these "why don't they do this..." questions, you'll go insane.

Like...why didn't they use the acoustic set to get really creative? Close the acoustic set with LIOG (minus the reprise) then open up the electric with the LIOG reprise? Or close the acoustic set with Nancies and open the electric with Warehouse? Why have they never played something like Hello Again (first 3/4ths up to the Carter drum solo) > drum solo > Halloween > end of Hello Again?

There are questions that will drive anyone insane. It's best to just be at peace with the bad taste in their own music this band has.

[dontdrink36]

Because David J Matthews writes the sets. He gets comfortable with certain songs in certain spots and that's what we get. Your desire for each show to have a totally unique opener/closer/encore is way too much to ask for or expect. Th st said, the catalog is vast and could easily be more random if he wanted it to be.

[Crews194]

Because the band is lazy?

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Crews194

Because the band is lazy?

DMB = DuMB

[TheStone91]

Originally Posted by dontdrink36

Because David J Matthews writes the sets. He gets comfortable with certain songs in certain spots and that's what we get. Your desire for each show to have a totally unique opener/closer/encore is way too much to ask for or expect. Th st said, the catalog is vast and could easily be more random if he wanted it to be.

To the bolded - I kind of worded it wrong in my OP. I know it's unrealistic for each show to have a unique opener/closer/encore, just meant in a general sense for the band to switch it up more.

But yeah, how hard is it to not write Two Step, for example, as the last song of the set for once? It's getting old (p.s. Yes, don't worry, I love two Step just as much as anyone else). Dave literally just needs to write in something else. Do you guys think management has any say with how Dave writes the sets in recent years?

I keep thinking of Alpine 2013 N2 when they ended with Time Bomb >> Two Step...just so underwhelming/disappointing. Dreamgirl E1 was actually cool for me because I didn't see it coming at all (those are the best moments at shows for me). And yeah, I know, Dreamgirl is a pretty blah song for the most part.

Do you guys think management has any say with how Dave writes the sets in recent years?

[TheStone91]

Originally Posted by lockman21

There are a lot of things that perplex me and frustrate me with this band. One is the setlist writing.

There are a billion examples that I could come up with over the past couple years. If you start beating yourself up over these "why don't they do this..." questions, you'll go insane.

Like...why didn't they use the acoustic set to get really creative? Close the acoustic set with LIOG (minus the reprise) then open up the electric with the LIOG reprise? Or close the acoustic set with Nancies and open the electric with Warehouse? Why have they never played something like Hello Again (first 3/4ths up to the Carter drum solo) > drum solo > Halloween > end of Hello Again?

There are questions that will drive anyone insane. It's best to just be at peace with the bad taste in their own music this band has.

True. How sad does that sound? Haha

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by TheStone91

Do you guys think management has any say with how Dave writes the sets in recent years?

I certainly hope not. If anything this band has way too many management/corporate types that have hugely effected their path. tLWS was scrapped for that reason, really.

Originally Posted by TheStone91

True. How sad does that sound? Haha

The sad part is how EASY it would be to make a memorably unique setlist. That's what frustrates me the most. Let's look at your Alpine 2013 for example:

Dave Matthews Band
July 5, 2013
Alpine Valley Music Theatre, Elkhorn, WI

Dancing Nancies »
Warehouse
Best of What's Around
So Right
Rhyme and Reason
Granny
Save Me
Captain
Kill the Preacher [partial] »
Don't Drink the Water
Snow Outside »
Fool to Think
Sweet Up and Down
What Would You Say
The Space Between
You Might Die Trying
Everyday
Ants Marching »
Halloween
-----------------------------------
Pantala Naga Pampa »
Rapunzel
Drive In, Drive Out

I made 4 additions/subtractions and moved a couple songs. Not even really that ridiculous of changes.

Tell me that's not one of the best looking shows post-2000.

[TheStone91]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I certainly hope not. If anything this band has way too many management/corporate types that have hugely effected their path. tLWS was scrapped for that reason, really.



The sad part is how EASY it would be to make a memorably unique setlist. That's what frustrates me the most. Let's look at your Alpine 2013 for example:


I made 4 additions/subtractions and moved a couple songs. Not even really that ridiculous of changes.

Tell me that's not one of the best looking shows post-2000.

Yeah, small tweaks like that would make A LOT of shows more appealing from recent tours.

It's almost hard to write sets as bad/boring/unoriginal/standard as Dave does some(most) times...

[davem#36]

The age old question....

[excitingjae]

Just looking at number of different songs played* per summer tour:

2014 - 107
2013 - 110
2012 - 99
2011 - 82
2010 - 96
2009 - 78
2008 - 78
2007 - 71
2006 - 72
2005 - 61
2004 - 56
2003 - 68
2002 - 56
2001 - 61
2000 - 56
1999 - 50
1998 - 44
1997 - 33

I thought that this year would have had more than 2013 considering there was no opener plus the addition of the acoustic set. I don't have the total numbers of songs that DMB has in their catalogue and I don't want to do that math. But as anyone would have guessed the more albums they put out the more different songs they play. Could they add in a "bust-out" every now and then? They sure could.

And I agree that DMB could change up their openers/closers and encores though. You just look at the previous night's setlist and you can choose 4 or 5 closing songs your likely to hear the next night. This is where DMB could take a cue from a band like Phish and change up some of those to give each night a more unique feel. (although Phish is guilty of having expected closers/encores but they do vary it up) But I wonder if since DMB has used those "heavy hitters" as closers/encores for so long they feel like they need to keep them there because they know they work and they know the fans like them.

*source DMB Almanac

[lockman21]

Ah, the classic most overrated stat on Ants. The number of different songs played.

[btpeters]

21 of those 107 songs from 2014 were played a whopping 1-3 times.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I made 4 additions/subtractions and moved a couple songs. Not even really that ridiculous of changes.

Tell me that's not one of the best looking shows post-2000.

that set is great but completely unrealistic because there isn't a single BWGK song

[Utopia]

It's not about the amount of songs being played in a tour. It's with what consistency those rarely played songs are played, as well as how often the overplayed songs are played. Mix that with predictable setlist placement, and you have a problem. That has been the problem with this band.

[TheStone91]

Originally Posted by Utopia

It's not about the amount of songs being played in a tour. It's with what consistency those rarely played songs are played, as well as how often the overplayed songs are played. Mix that with predictable setlist placement, and you have a problem. That has been the problem with this band.

Exactly. Perfect summary of what this band has been doing wrong with its live shows.

[mja271]

Originally Posted by lockman21

Here's the thing...Dave has never been real good at writing setlists. He just used to have a lot less shitty songs to pick from.

This about sums it up. Dave has had little periods where his set writing actually gets creative for a short amount of time (Early 2003/2010 for example) but even in the glory days, a lot of the sets were pretty similar. They just had almost no bad songs in the catalog to choose from. Redundancy is a lot more forgivable when almost every song at every show is great.

[cooke726]

I loved 2013 and thought for the most part that the sets were great pretty consistently...This year was soo disappointing because the acoustic set got NO variety, and was very predictable in placement...and also the closing runs of the main sets were predictable as were the encores.

in 2013 Halloween got played alot and was pretty predictable...but Id rather predict and get Halloween then Why I Am or Shake Me

[LetYouDown22]

Sometimes cucumber tastes better pickle

[moccasin]

Dave is not a risk taker and would rather stay in his comfort zone.
The sets may be somewhat predictable, but at least they're not the same set every night
like a lot of bands tend to do.

[cooke726]

Originally Posted by moccasin

Dave is not a risk taker and would rather stay in his comfort zone.
The sets may be somewhat predictable, but at least they're not the same set every night
like a lot of bands tend to do.

Most bands do that...even large acts

The only mainstream bands who change it up nightly on a regular basis are Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen, and DMB...

[excitingjae]

Originally Posted by cooke726

Most bands do that...even large acts

The only mainstream bands who change it up nightly on a regular basis are Pearl Jam, Bruce Springsteen, Phish, and DMB...

fixed that for you

[cooke726]

Originally Posted by excitingjae

fixed that for you

Phish has a large following but is in no way mainstream...far from it

[tommy mandone]

Originally Posted by excitingjae

Just looking at number of different songs played* per summer tour:

2014 - 107
2013 - 110
2012 - 99
2011 - 82
2010 - 96
2009 - 78
2008 - 78
2007 - 71
2006 - 72
2005 - 61
2004 - 56
2003 - 68
2002 - 56
2001 - 61
2000 - 56
1999 - 50
1998 - 44
1997 - 33

I thought that this year would have had more than 2013 considering there was no opener plus the addition of the acoustic set. I don't have the total numbers of songs that DMB has in their catalogue and I don't want to do that math. But as anyone would have guessed the more albums they put out the more different songs they play. Could they add in a "bust-out" every now and then? They sure could.



*source DMB Almanac

Thats pretty incredible that they played 82 different songs in 2011 considering that there were roughly 13sh shows. I went back through those sets the other night and the variety and rarity were impressive, if they could keep that going for a full summer tour, that would be an entertaining summer or tour in general.

[#41Tom]

Originally Posted by cooke726

Phish has a large phollowing but is in no way mainstream...phar phrom it

Phixed that phor you

[DMBzilla]

I don't think it's that outlandish to think DMB could have a unique opener almost every night. They easily have 40 songs that could work in that slot. The only thing standing in the way is Dave.

Originally Posted by cooke726

Phish has a large following but is in no way mainstream...far from it

They're almost as big as it gets touring wise though. In a class with DMB, PJ, Springsteen, etc. For the purposes of this discussion they're definitely relevant.

[DMBzilla]

Just to illustrate, each of these songs could work in some capacity as an opener, and all were played last summer:

27
41
Ants
Bartender
Beach Ball
Belly Belly Nice
Best of What's Around
Big Eyed Fish
Crush
Dancing Nancies
Don't Drink the Water
Dreaming Tree
Drive In Drive Out
Drunken Soldier
Everyday
Funny the Way It Is
Good Good Time
Grace is Gone
Granny
Grey Street
Lie in Our Graves
Minarets
One Sweet World
Pig
Proudest Monkey
Rapunzel
Raven
Recently
Rhyme & Reason
Rooftop
Say Goodbye
Seek Up
Seven
Shake Me
So Damn Lucky
So Much to Say
So Right
Song That Jane Likes
Squirm
Stay or Leave
The Stone
Too Much
Tripping Billies
Two Step
Typical Situation
Warehouse
What Would You Say
When the World Ends
Why I Am
You Might Die Trying
You Never Know