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View Poll Results: Who is the best MLB Starting Pitcher of all time?
Walter Johnson 14 16.09%
Christy Mathewson 2 2.30%
Roger Clemens 2 2.30%
Randy Johnson 8 9.20%
Cy Young 7 8.05%
Tom Seaver 1 1.15%
Nolan Ryan 22 25.29%
Greg Maddux 23 26.44%
Sandy Koufax 8 9.20%
Warren Spahn 0 0%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-04-2012, 04:22 PM   #91
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Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

He pitched for 27 years
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  • Old 05-04-2012, 04:25 PM   #92
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Nolan Ryan was really good. Not greatest of all time good, but still really good. 2.97 career FIP is pretty amazing considering how long he pitched.
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    Old 05-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #93
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    How is Nolan Ryan winning this?
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    Old 05-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #94
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Pedro was the most dominant on his best day. This has to be Maddux though.
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    Old 05-04-2012, 05:35 PM   #95
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Greg Maddux. Most reliable pitcher of all time IMO. Great fielding pitcher, so smart, so smooth.
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    Old 05-04-2012, 07:01 PM   #96
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaxarado View Post
    How is Nolan Ryan winning this?
    The Liberty Valance effect.
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    Old 05-04-2012, 07:26 PM   #97
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Impossible question to answer because of eras (same with QB) but I will pick Greg Maddux for how he commanded a game and his ability to paint the corners like no other. He was a marksman and a damn dominant pitcher.

    EDIT: Not to mention the Gold Gloves.
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    Old 05-04-2012, 07:43 PM   #98
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickyh24 View Post
    Pedro was the most dominant on his best day. This has to be Maddux though.
    this

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ethaxton View Post
    Greg Maddux. Most reliable pitcher of all time IMO. Great fielding pitcher, so smart, so smooth.
    this
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roose13 View Post
    Impossible question to answer because of eras (same with QB) but I will pick Greg Maddux for how he commanded a game and his ability to paint the corners like no other. He was a marksman and a damn dominant pitcher.

    EDIT: Not to mention the Gold Gloves.
    and this
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    Old 05-04-2012, 08:04 PM   #99
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    I'm biased towards Maddux, but I still think it's him. For this era anyway.

    To be able to throw mid 80's in the steroid era and have 300 wins is almost impossible. Hell, to throw mid-80's in any era and win is impressive. I don't think people relize he rarely threw above 90. When he threw over 90, it was wild and a ball. He threw a mid-high 80's fastball with a 75 MPH change-up that would make any hitter look silly. His curve and slider were good, but my god, that 2 seam he would throw in and then come back outside with the change-up. My lord, take a seat or ground out to the shortstop. Never walked people, ever. His 40 some-odd inning streak of no walks was so much fun to watch. One of the smartest pitchers ever. Greg and Tony Gwynn are the two smartest baseball players ever.

    Best change-up ever?

    I could talk about Maddux all day. My favorite Brave ever. Getting to see him pitch live was such a treat.

    I can imitate his wind-up to a T. Been doing it since I was 7
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    Old 05-04-2012, 08:21 PM   #100
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    If Ryan had stopped at 20 years played (mind you not 20 full years, but 20 years from first appearance to last) he'd still have 270 or so wins , 4K plus strikeouts and 5 no hitters. So is he the best ever? Fuck no. But his numbers are not totally longetivity.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 05:23 AM   #101
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Went Walter Johnson. It is so tough to separate eras.

    Almost need a poll for different eras.

    I agree with many that Nolan Ryan doesn't belong on the list. He is outside the top 10, imo. Would rather have seen someone like Grover Cleveland Alexander, Lefty Grove, Whitey Ford or Bob Feller on the list than Ryan. Feller lost 3 prime years to the war and Ford lost a couple too.

    Almost went Maddux for what he did during the steroid era. Pedro was also unreal for the steroid era.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 08:11 AM   #102
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Just noticed: no Carlton? Arguably the greatest lefty of all time!
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    Old 05-05-2012, 09:27 AM   #103
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by salrx95 View Post
    Almost need a poll for different eras.

    or, say, for righties and lefties
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    Old 05-05-2012, 09:34 AM   #104
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Roose13 View Post
    Just noticed: no Carlton? Arguably the greatest lefty of all time!
    Good question. Looking at this list makes me wonder where eveyone else is.

    Where is Grover Cleveland Alexander, Eddie Plank, Don Sutton, Phil Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Lefty Grove, and Tom Glavine?

    All 300 game winners. I like the list, but you could add some more to it, imo.

    I'm tempted to nominate John Smoltz, but he was an amazing closer as well as a starting pitcher. 200+ wins and 150 saves? Unreal. Had the post season record in wins with 15 before Andy Pettite broke it.
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    Last edited by recentlyJTR41; 05-05-2012 at 09:37 AM.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 09:36 AM   #105
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Good question. Looking at this list makes me wonder where eveyone else is.

    Where is Grover Cleveland Alexander, Eddie Plank, Don Sutton, Phil Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Lefty Grove, and Tom Glavine?

    All 300 game winners. I like the list, but you could add some more to it, imo.

    I'm tempted to nominate John Smoltz, but he was an amazing closer as well as a starting pitcher. 200+ wins and 150 saves? Unreal.
    i really dont think any of those guys will ever be considered in a debate on the best pitchers of all time..come on, be serious. yes they are 300 game winners and HOFers, but that doesnt mean they belong in the discussion.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 09:39 AM   #106
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    i really dont think any of those guys will ever be considered in a debate on the best pitchers of all time..come on, be serious. yes they are 300 game winners and HOFers, but that doesnt mean they belong in the discussion.
    Well, the way people are slamming Nolan Ryan it seems like anybody could be on the list.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 09:48 AM   #107
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    lol at all the Nolan Ryan hate in here
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    Old 05-05-2012, 10:50 AM   #108
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Good question. Looking at this list makes me wonder where eveyone else is.

    Where is Grover Cleveland Alexander, Eddie Plank, Don Sutton, Phil Neikro, Gaylord Perry, Lefty Grove, and Tom Glavine?

    All 300 game winners. I like the list, but you could add some more to it, imo.

    I'm tempted to nominate John Smoltz, but he was an amazing closer as well as a starting pitcher. 200+ wins and 150 saves? Unreal. Had the post season record in wins with 15 before Andy Pettite broke it.
    Being a 300 game winner shouldn't make you a lock to make the list. Feller, Gibson, Ford and even Pedro were all better than Sutton, Niekro, Perry. Longevity got those guys in. I think Sutton won like 20 games once and I would guess he rarely finished top 5 in the CY voting.

    I agree Carlton should have been an option, too.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 10:52 AM   #109
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    the nolan ryan hate in here is a joke. sorry i'm not voting for a guy who played from 1907-1927
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    Old 05-05-2012, 10:59 AM   #110
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grace2 View Post
    the nolan ryan hate in here is a joke. sorry i'm not voting for a guy who played from 1907-1927
    I don't know if it necessarily hate but not thinking a guy who had almost 300 losses and a slightly better than .500 winning percentage and has almost 1000 more walks than the next person is the best pitcher of all time.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 11:08 AM   #111
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by salrx95 View Post
    I don't know if it necessarily hate but not thinking a guy who had almost 300 losses and a slightly better than .500 winning percentage and has almost 1000 more walks than the next person is the best pitcher of all time.
    cy young had 316 losses, so the same thing can be said to some extent

    i agree that some of Ryan's stats are inflated and no-hitters are overrated, but you cant just look at the losses..

    1972: 16 losses, 2.28 era
    1973: 16 losses, 2.87 era
    1974: 16 losses, 2.89 era
    1976: 18 losses, 3.36 era
    1977: 16 losses, 2.77 era

    right there thats 82 losses with a combined era around 2.75..he has a few other years like that as well
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    Old 05-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #112
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    I'm laughing at you


    Nolan Ryan is the worst pitcher in the hall of fame. Too many walks. Too many losses. By voting Ryan, all you're saying is "I'm a kid and I don't understand baseball but I remember him striking out a bunch of guys before I was born."



    Walter Johnson is the correct answer
    Yep, literally exactly my thought process. I don't really know anything about pitching. Didn't realize my incredibly intoxicated post at 4:30am would start such a shitshow, though Ryan's winning anyway so I guess it was inevitable.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 11:19 AM   #113
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    cy young had 316 losses, so the same thing can be said to some extent

    i agree that some of Ryan's stats are inflated and no-hitters are overrated, but you cant just look at the losses..

    1972: 16 losses, 2.28 era
    1973: 16 losses, 2.87 era
    1974: 16 losses, 2.89 era
    1976: 18 losses, 3.36 era
    1977: 16 losses, 2.77 era

    right there thats 82 losses with a combined era around 2.75..he has a few other years like that as well
    Oh definitely. He belongs on the list/poll. I certainly don't hate him and only knocked him the way I did to show why I couldn't possibly have him one or even top 5. Definitely top 10.

    He has more losses to like alot of guys of years past due to how many starts he and others of past eras had. 16 losses are almost like 12-13 nowadays.

    I wouldn't have Cy Young in my top 10, though.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 11:27 AM   #114
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but don't be hypocritical about it. If you're gonna criticize Ryan by saying the only reason certain stats (K's, etc.) are so good is because he played for so long, then you can't turn around and use stats like walks, losses, etc. that would also be increased by a longer career against him.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 11:32 AM   #115
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jake View Post
    I'm laughing at you


    Nolan Ryan is the worst pitcher in the hall of fame. Too many walks. Too many losses. By voting Ryan, all you're saying is "I'm a kid and I don't understand baseball but I remember him striking out a bunch of guys before I was born."



    Walter Johnson is the correct answer
    not that I disagree with you, but using losses as a reason for him being the worst pitcher in the hall gives me reason to laugh at you.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 12:00 PM   #116
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by justink View Post
    i grew up in Alvin, TX.

    my recently deceased grandfather umpired Nolan's games from Little League at Schroeder Field through high school as an Alvin Yellow Jacket. When he looked like this: http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zo...0b6aa9076c.jpg

    my mother coached his daughter Wendy in gymnastics.

    to say the least, the Ryan family are long time family friends. I've met Nolan on several occasions at his bank (The Express Bank, Alvin TX).

    single season strikeout record.
    300 win club
    7 no hitters
    all time strikeout record that may never be matched...

    although he never won a cy young award, his basic stats scream "greatest of all time."

    i've got a lot of autographs from him, but my favorite is a personalized signed ball saying "happy birthday" to me from 1991. i'll try to upload a pic this weekend.

    my grandpa said that umpiring behind the plate for Nolan's high school games was simply amazing. simple because nearly every batter was a K, and amazing because he was hitting a mid to high 90's fastball as a 16 year old high school student.

    i didn't have a clue who Nolan Ryan really was until the 1986 season when the Astros (arguably the greatest Astros team ever) was eliminated just short of the World Series by the NYMets.

    i remember running around the Ryan's pool at family parties, too young to really understand the company i was in...

    if we're going off career numbers, i strongly believe that Nolan Ryan is the greatest MLB pitcher of all time. and it will be a LONG time before anyone ever touches his numbers.
    http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgbilzDkVB1qf8yek.gif
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    Old 05-05-2012, 12:01 PM   #117
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by salrx95 View Post
    I don't know if it necessarily hate but not thinking a guy who had almost 300 losses and a slightly better than .500 winning percentage and has almost 1000 more walks than the next person is the best pitcher of all time.
    Wins and losses for a pitcher is the most overrated stat in all of sports. People put so much emphasis on it and it's honestly half your pitching, half the team's offense. It's all about ERA and 3.19 over 27 seasons is pretty incredible.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 12:13 PM   #118
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grace2 View Post
    Wins and losses for a pitcher is the most overrated stat in all of sports. People put so much emphasis on it and it's honestly half your pitching, half the team's offense. It's all about ERA and 3.19 over 27 seasons is pretty incredible.
    It's very good but far behind contemporaries like Seaver and Palmer and behind those just before him like Ford and Gibson.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 12:33 PM   #119
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Ryan is for sure not the best ever, but when you look at some of his stats, don't forget that he played on almost entirely shit teams.
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    Old 05-05-2012, 12:36 PM   #120
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grace2 View Post
    Wins and losses for a pitcher is the most overrated stat in all of sports. People put so much emphasis on it and it's honestly half your pitching, half the team's offense. It's all about ERA and 3.19 over 27 seasons is pretty incredible.

    It is, and you're right, W/L is probably the single worst stat to try and compare pitchers, but ultimately a guy with that many walks, I don't know how he'd genuinely be in the discussion for the single greatest starter of all time.
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