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View Poll Results: Who is the best MLB Starting Pitcher of all time?
Walter Johnson 14 16.09%
Christy Mathewson 2 2.30%
Roger Clemens 2 2.30%
Randy Johnson 8 9.20%
Cy Young 7 8.05%
Tom Seaver 1 1.15%
Nolan Ryan 22 25.29%
Greg Maddux 23 26.44%
Sandy Koufax 8 9.20%
Warren Spahn 0 0%
Voters: 87. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-10-2012, 08:36 AM   #181
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Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
8x All Star
1x MVP - One of only 3 pitchers since 1950 to get the MVP
1968 ERA 1.12 including 28 complete games, 13 of which were shutouts
2 CYA's
9 straight gold gloves
1967 World series MVP - pitched 3 complete games, won all 3, allowing a total of 3 runs
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  • Old 05-10-2012, 09:37 AM   #182
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    how ryan is winning this poll is mind blowing to me..
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    Old 05-10-2012, 09:46 AM   #183
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lcsulla View Post
    Agreed but even more galling is seeing Ryan leading in the poll.
    yes - this is unacceptable.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 09:56 AM   #184
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    People are biased towards Ryan and I have no idea why - ignorance, the fact that he pitched in a lot of our lifetimes or homerism is my best guess. He was by any standard a great pitcher but the best of all time? Give me a break. He might be the most over-rated starter ever. Like I said though, he was still great but I wouldn't put him in a top ten list.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 09:57 AM   #185
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Agreed...
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    Old 05-10-2012, 09:59 AM   #186
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Steve Carlton had one of the best single seasons in the modern era, won 4 Cy Youngs, 2 World Series, a Gold Glove, was an all star 10 times, and had one of the best single seasons in the modern era. He absolutely deserves to be on this list.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 10:02 AM   #187
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBzilla View Post
    Steve Carlton had one of the best single seasons in the modern era, won 4 Cy Youngs, 2 World Series, a Gold Glove, was an all star 10 times, and had one of the best single seasons in the modern era. He absolutely deserves to be on this list.
    Agreed, quite possibly the best lefty starter ever. No idea why he is not on here. He is certainly more deserving than Ryan.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 10:20 AM   #188
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Whoops, didn't mean to say "best single seasons in the modern era" twice.

    But, it was that good.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 10:51 AM   #189
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Carlton won 27 games that one less than 60. Amazing
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    Old 05-10-2012, 11:17 AM   #190
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    I voted Maddux just so he would pull into the lead.
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    Old 05-10-2012, 06:36 PM   #191
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lcsulla View Post
    People are biased towards Ryan and I have no idea why - ignorance, the fact that he pitched in a lot of our lifetimes or homerism is my best guess. He was by any standard a great pitcher but the best of all time? Give me a break. He might be the most over-rated starter ever. Like I said though, he was still great but I wouldn't put him in a top ten list.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBzilla View Post
    Steve Carlton had one of the best single seasons in the modern era, won 4 Cy Youngs, 2 World Series, a Gold Glove, was an all star 10 times, and had one of the best single seasons in the modern era. He absolutely deserves to be on this list.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lcsulla View Post
    Agreed, quite possibly the best lefty starter ever. No idea why he is not on here. He is certainly more deserving than Ryan.

    Well first of all, as a guy who's made way too many polls myself and all the flack I've taken from ants over the years in this kind of area, I feel compelled to come to justink's defense a little bit here in pointing out you're always hampered by the limitations of Ants polls, having only 10 options in any given one. Invariably you irk a certain group of people in what option(s) you leave off because, again, in the end there can be only 10.


    But then going further from that point (& I swear I'd still be saying this and showing these links even if it wasn't myself who made this past polls to begin with I'd like to think I'd do it (so long as I remembered) whoever it was that originally made them) for a question like this, as broad as "the greatest starting pitcher ever", ultimately I think a general pot of 10 is just way too inferior. And it was part of that thinking that inspired me in the first place for when I made the polls for Best LH Starter of all time, and then Best RH Starter (that eventually became a whole series, one for each position on the field). but shit, even then I had guys pissed at me for leaving certain names off each list So for the hell of it, for your review...

    Best Lefthanded Starting Pitcher Of All Time
    http://antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=257781

    Best Righthanded Starting Pitcher Of All Time
    http://antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=257962


    but at least I managed to get in there most (if not every) additional name that's been argued about in this thread for not having made justink's poll.



    (yes, this is what I do here at the end of a Thursday night to try and trick myself into convincing myself that I matter.. lol)
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    Old 05-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #192
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    I voted Maddux, as a Phillies fan that is saying something. When you consider that Maddux won on smarts, its really incredible. Not saying he wasn't a great athlete, but there are tons of guys that have the same "stuff" that Maddux had. He was just so effective and had so much movement on the ball that he was ridiculously tough to hit.

    However, if Pedro was on the list I may have voted for him. I saw, arguably, the best game he ever pitched. It was amazing.

    "Yankee Stadium 1-hitter
    Martínez again came close to the feat on September 10, 1999, when he beat the New York Yankees 3–1. He faced just 28 batters while striking out 17 and walking none (Martínez hit the game's first batter, Chuck Knoblauch, but he was then caught stealing). Only a solo home run by Chili Davis separated Martínez from a no-hitter. The Davis home run came in the second inning, eliminating any suspense, but this may have been Martínez's most dominant day on the mound. Sportswriter Thomas Boswell called it the best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium."
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    Last edited by harryhoudini; 05-10-2012 at 08:09 PM.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 05:02 AM   #193
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    As a Met fan it hurts to do this but I voted Maddux. Guy was just silly. There was not a more unimpressive presence on the mound and the guy just dealt. Not a lot of velocity but could just keep you tied up. Pedro is second on my list.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 07:20 AM   #194
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harryhoudini View Post
    I voted Maddux, as a Phillies fan that is saying something. When you consider that Maddux won on smarts, its really incredible. Not saying he wasn't a great athlete, but there are tons of guys that have the same "stuff" that Maddux had. He was just so effective and had so much movement on the ball that he was ridiculously tough to hit.

    However, if Pedro was on the list I may have voted for him. I saw, arguably, the best game he ever pitched. It was amazing.

    "Yankee Stadium 1-hitter
    Martínez again came close to the feat on September 10, 1999, when he beat the New York Yankees 3–1. He faced just 28 batters while striking out 17 and walking none (Martínez hit the game's first batter, Chuck Knoblauch, but he was then caught stealing). Only a solo home run by Chili Davis separated Martínez from a no-hitter. The Davis home run came in the second inning, eliminating any suspense, but this may have been Martínez's most dominant day on the mound. Sportswriter Thomas Boswell called it the best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium."
    First bold:

    Second: That's pretty much the definition of "stuff."
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    Old 05-11-2012, 07:56 AM   #195
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harryhoudini View Post
    Sportswriter Thomas Boswell called it the best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium."
    Really? I have to believe that at least 3 performances were better. Namely, Don Larsen, David Wells, and David Cone. Yes, it was certainly a good game and the K's are impressive but something about 27 up 27 down will always seem like a better performance to me.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 10:29 AM   #196
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    That pitch that Maddux would throw to lefties, where it looked pretty much like a fastball and was coming in too inside, but then at the last second it would dart back over the plate enough to be a called strike, first of all I guess that's the cutter... ? And was Maddux the first pitcher to have that be a major piece of his arsenal? I'm not sure I remember hearing it talked about too much before then, that was like HIS pitch.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 10:30 AM   #197
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junior94 View Post
    That pitch that Maddux would throw to lefties, where it looked pretty much like a fastball and was coming in too inside, but then at the last second it would dart back over the plate enough to be a called strike, first of all I guess that's the cutter... ? And was Maddux the first pitcher to have that be a major piece of his arsenal? I'm not sure I remember hearing it talked about too much before then, that was like HIS pitch.
    it's a 2 seam fastball. he was great at throwing it

    he used to have a huge strike zone though. some of the calls he got on the outside corner wouldnt even have a chance at being strikes today. not taking anything away from him though, the strike zone is just a bit different
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:07 AM   #198
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harryhoudini View Post
    I voted Maddux, as a Phillies fan that is saying something. When you consider that Maddux won on smarts, its really incredible. Not saying he wasn't a great athlete, but there are tons of guys that have the same "stuff" that Maddux had. He was just so effective and had so much movement on the ball that he was ridiculously tough to hit.

    However, if Pedro was on the list I may have voted for him. I saw, arguably, the best game he ever pitched. It was amazing.

    "Yankee Stadium 1-hitter
    Martínez again came close to the feat on September 10, 1999, when he beat the New York Yankees 3–1. He faced just 28 batters while striking out 17 and walking none (Martínez hit the game's first batter, Chuck Knoblauch, but he was then caught stealing). Only a solo home run by Chili Davis separated Martínez from a no-hitter. The Davis home run came in the second inning, eliminating any suspense, but this may have been Martínez's most dominant day on the mound. Sportswriter Thomas Boswell called it the best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium."
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    First bold:

    Second: That's pretty much the definition of "stuff."
    gotta agree with YNK, and thats a rarity..."stuff" doesn't mean the pitches you have, "stuff" is how you use those pitches. Maddux better stuff than 99.999% of pitchers ever
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:30 AM   #199
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    if you say nolan ryan, im guessing you like nickelback and/or OAR.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:35 AM   #200
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crashintome202 View Post
    if you say nolan ryan, im guessing you like nickelback and/or OAR.
    Easy, for all we know they have a medical condition effecting their higher cognitive functions.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #201
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by junior94 View Post
    That pitch that Maddux would throw to lefties, where it looked pretty much like a fastball and was coming in too inside, but then at the last second it would dart back over the plate enough to be a called strike, first of all I guess that's the cutter... ? And was Maddux the first pitcher to have that be a major piece of his arsenal? I'm not sure I remember hearing it talked about too much before then, that was like HIS pitch.
    He would throw a 2 seamer then a change-up. His cutter was pretty good, but his change-up was his out pitch. Probably the best change-up ever imo.

    God, I miss watching him pitch. The day he left Atlanta was so depressing. But, I got to see him pitch several times and saw the Braves retire his number. Such an awesome experience.

    I hate growing up and seeing my favorite players retire....
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:39 AM   #202
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by harryhoudini View Post
    I voted Maddux, as a Phillies fan that is saying something. When you consider that Maddux won on smarts, its really incredible. Not saying he wasn't a great athlete, but there are tons of guys that have the same "stuff" that Maddux had. He was just so effective and had so much movement on the ball that he was ridiculously tough to hit.

    However, if Pedro was on the list I may have voted for him. I saw, arguably, the best game he ever pitched. It was amazing.

    "Yankee Stadium 1-hitter
    Martínez again came close to the feat on September 10, 1999, when he beat the New York Yankees 3–1. He faced just 28 batters while striking out 17 and walking none (Martínez hit the game's first batter, Chuck Knoblauch, but he was then caught stealing). Only a solo home run by Chili Davis separated Martínez from a no-hitter. The Davis home run came in the second inning, eliminating any suspense, but this may have been Martínez's most dominant day on the mound. Sportswriter Thomas Boswell called it the best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium."
    Best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium and he gave up a home run? Was Don Larson's perfect game not at Yankee Stadium?
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:41 AM   #203
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Best game ever pitched at Yankee Stadium and he gave up a home run? Was Don Larson's perfect game not at Yankee Stadium?
    I noted that.

    Not only Larsen but Wells an Cone as well.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 11:44 AM   #204
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Lcsulla View Post
    I noted that.

    Not only Larsen but Wells an Cone as well.
    And Kevin Costner
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    Old 05-11-2012, 12:06 PM   #205
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crashintome202 View Post
    if you say nolan ryan, im guessing you like nickelback and/or OAR.
    http://www.stumbleupon.com/su/AtCGdc...v=SfmFt2aRjM0/
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    Old 05-11-2012, 12:55 PM   #206
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    I played juco baseball at Alvin for a year (where Nolan was from). Man does he tell a boring speech. We had him at this gala type event to raise money. Seemed like a sweet guy, but I could not tell you one thing that man talked about.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 01:24 PM   #207
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    First bold:

    Second: That's pretty much the definition of "stuff."

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by smokew11 View Post
    gotta agree with YNK, and thats a rarity..."stuff" doesn't mean the pitches you have, "stuff" is how you use those pitches. Maddux better stuff than 99.999% of pitchers ever
    I meant he didn't have a blistering fastball or a ridiculous hook. He just was a very smart pitcher and knew how to throw that two seamer. I realize he threw that pitch as well as anyone, i was just saying he was born with a golden arm, he worked on his stuff to get there.

    As for the greatest game ever, I don't agree with that statement given the legendary games that have been pitched at Yankee Stadium, however, there weren't many better games pitched. Was just giving an example of Pedros stuff.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 01:25 PM   #208
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by crashintome202 View Post
    if you say nolan ryan, im guessing you like nickelback and/or OAR.
    Omg that's so funny
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    Old 05-11-2012, 01:37 PM   #209
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
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    Omg that's so funny
    I can never tell if posts like this are sarcastic.
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    Old 05-11-2012, 01:38 PM   #210
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    Re: Poll: Best MLB Starting Pitcher (All Time)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheldonlevene View Post
    I can never tell if posts like this are sarcastic.
    It was
    uro55 is offline   Reply With Quote
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