The Lovely Ladies

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

I care that they were talented. They were great singers and didn't do anything to hurt the song they were playing on. Nor did they play on every song, or even at every show during the tours that they were featured on. They were on a tour leg here and there, and on a few select songs on those nights.

They made several songs worse. BOWA, #36, Granny and Angel are all better without them, and they're not remotely necessary on anything else.

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

Let me ask you this... were there any songs that were definitively better with Butch added to the mix? Or with Rashawn added to the mix?

Probably not, but I'm not sure why this is relevant.

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

You're just playing semantics now because of the way that I worded the question. The bottom line is that people enjoyed them while they were there. Whether they are "glad they are gone" or they think that they "don't need to be there anymore" doesn't take away from the fact that they liked them while they were there.

It's not semantics at all. Being glad something is gone implies dislike for that something.

And, again, I'd bet most voters never saw a show with them.

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

They made several songs worse. BOWA, #36, Granny and Angel are all better without them, and they're not remotely necessary on anything else.

I disagree. Well... I agree that they weren't "necessary", but that doesn't mean that they weren't good. Rashawn isn't "necessary". Butch wasn't "necessary". Even Tim isn't "necessary". But that doesn't mean that they aren't good.

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

Probably not, but I'm not sure why this is relevant.

It's about as relevant as you asking me what songs the Ladies made definitively better.

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

It's not semantics at all. Being glad something is gone implies dislike for that something.

And, again, I'd bet most voters never saw a show with them.

Again... the bottom line is that those people who are "glad they are gone" still liked them while they were there. So, since that question clearly says "I liked them while they were there", you can't say that those people disliked them Because clearly they didn't dislike them.

And, again, how can you assume that most voters never saw a show with them? Is it because you saw show with them and didn't like them, therefore you can't believe that the people who did like them actually saw them live?

[thehammer316]

The poll is fucked. You should only enter poll if you actually saw them.

[Dannyyankou]

Originally Posted by thehammer316

The poll is fucked. You should only enter poll if you actually saw them.

Seeing them on the Folsom Field DVD was enough for me to say they were terrible for the band.

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by thehammer316

The poll is fucked. You should only enter poll if you actually saw them.

Would a poll asking if Peter Grieser was good in dMb make sense? Because I guarantee nobody on these boards ever saw him live.

And how do you guys know that the people voting never saw the Ladies live? And even if they didn't, there are plenty of recording and releases with the Ladies on them. Granted it's not the same as seeing them live, but still... you can hear them and make a fair judgement of whether or not you like them.

Originally Posted by Dannyyankou

Seeing them on the Folsom Field DVD was enough for me to say they were terrible for the band.

Apparently your opinion doesn't matter here.

[Coker]

Straight up terrible on a lot of songs.

[thehammer316]

true, you can tell how bad they were via audio and/or visual. Live or recorded

[EDDMB]

I saw them live...I was at the 06.11.01 show..so what does that mean ? I thought they were awful.But if I wasn't there,does that mean I cant say they sucked from listening to the tape ? IMO,they are awful on the Folsom Field dvd,and I was not at that show...Also, I said "period" before because,IMO,I thought they sucked and were not necessary for DMB.I wasn't into the "oh,oh oooo..oh..oh ah..ah ow oooooooo"..it didn't end...

Could they sing ? Yes...they could..IMO,they over did it. As if trying to prove to the crowd,that they could indeed sing.

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

It's about as relevant as you asking me what songs the Ladies made definitively better.

No, it's not, because no one is discussing Butch or Rashawn, nor has anyone shared their opinion regarding their value to the band. If someone started a thread saying, "bring Butch back," I'd probably have the same question.

This thread opened with you sharing your opinion about the Lovely Ladies and then asking for ours, so asking what songs they made definitively better is absolutely relevant to the conversation.

What's confusing is that you have stated that they didn't make anything definitively better and made some songs worse, and yet you still have a seemingly positive opinion of them.

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

And, again, how can you assume that most voters never saw a show with them? Is it because you saw show with them and didn't like them, therefore you can't believe that the people who did like them actually saw them live?

Because most currently active users on Ants joined within the past 5 years and never saw a show before then.

[thehammer316]

I hope this poll is around for everyone on Monday AM. I feel like there are good laughs to be had in here.

PS poll should most definitely be public.

[YankeesDMB41]

I enjoy JTR and Long Black Veil better with them on it....I said it

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by thehammer316

I hope this poll is around for everyone on Monday AM. I feel like there are good laughs to be had in here.

PS poll should most definitely be public.

It's just ridiculous. The Ladies were HATED by the end of 2001. Fans were thrilled when they weren't asked back on tour. No one who saw them for more than a couple shows could possibly be voting anything other than option 3, other than Mr. Everythingdmbdoesisawesomebecausedmbdidit himself.

[Dannyyankou]

I got what you want, I got what you want, I got what you neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed.

[Strangely Brown]

Maybe dmb just does not lend itself to needing backround vocals. Even boyd or RR seem unnecessary most of the time. All three wailing ladies and it really jacks things up.

[FeelingGood]

Originally Posted by Dannyyankou

Stay from the Gorge Caravan is the only version with backup singers I enjoyed.

That's funny, because Alecia Chakour butchered the lyrics.

[Strangely Brown]

Originally Posted by FeelingGood

That's funny, because Alecia Chakour butchered the lyrics.

Well, they are some of the most challenging

[Dannyyankou]

Originally Posted by FeelingGood

That's funny, because Alecia Chakour butchered the lyrics.

Yeah, that was pretty bad. I still prefer it without a guest, but it was probably the most energetic version I've heard.

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

It's just ridiculous. The Ladies were HATED by the end of 2001. Fans were thrilled when they weren't asked back on tour. No one who saw them for more than a couple shows could possibly be voting anything other than option 3, other than Mr. Everythingdmbdoesisawesomebecausedmbdidit himself.

That's obnoxious.

Dude I've tried over and over to have civil debates with you over differing OPINIONS, but apparently that's impossible to do with Mr. Imrightandeveryonewhodisagreeswithmeiswrongthereis noroomfordebatebecausemyopinionisallthatmatters.

People liked the Lovely Ladies. Get over it. It's not "ridiculous", nor is it true that "no one who saw them for more than a couple of shows could possibly be voting for option 3"... just because your opinion is different. Why are you so convinced that you are always right and everyone who disagrees with you is always wrong? You're an only child, aren't you?

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

No, it's not, because no one is discussing Butch or Rashawn, nor has anyone shared their opinion regarding their value to the band. If someone started a thread saying, "bring Butch back," I'd probably have the same question.

This thread opened with you sharing your opinion about the Lovely Ladies and then asking for ours, so asking what songs they made definitively better is absolutely relevant to the conversation.

What's confusing is that you have stated that they didn't make anything definitively better and made some songs worse, and yet you still have a seemingly positive opinion of them.



Because most currently active users on Ants joined within the past 5 years and never saw a show before then.

I will address this though, because I don't see what's so confusing. I said (a couple of times now) that they brought something different and unique to the music, and for the most part I liked it. There are a couple of songs that they were featured on that I believe they didn't fit well in. Is is confusing that even though there were a couple of songs that I didn't like them on, I have a general overall opinion that they were good for the time they were there?

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

That's obnoxious.

Dude I've tried over and over to have civil debates with you over differing OPINIONS, but apparently that's impossible to do with Mr. Imrightandeveryonewhodisagreeswithmeiswrongthereis noroomfordebatebecausemyopinionisallthatmatters.

People liked the Lovely Ladies. Get over it. It's not "ridiculous", nor is it true that "no one who saw them for more than a couple of shows could possibly be voting for option 3"... just because your opinion is different. Why are you so convinced that you are always right and everyone who disagrees with you is always wrong? You're an only child, aren't you?

It has nothing to do with my opinion. By the end of 2001 people were begging for the Ladies to disappear. When it happened the following year people were thrilled. Hardly anyone has even hinted that they miss them.

Again, you have openly stated in this thread that they didn't make any songs better and that they made some songs worse, and yet you still have a generally good opinion of them, which doesn't make much logical sense. I think it's entirely reasonable, based upon most of your posts, that you think they were good only because they had to do with DMB.

[Coker]

Completely ruin JTR for me.

[gocubsgo3822]

I wish they were still around.

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

It has nothing to do with my opinion. By the end of 2001 people were begging for the Ladies to disappear. When it happened the following year people were thrilled. Hardly anyone has even hinted that they miss them.

Again, you have openly stated in this thread that they didn't make any songs better and that they made some songs worse, and yet you still have a generally good opinion of them, which doesn't make much logical sense. I think it's entirely reasonable, based upon most of your posts, that you think they were good only because they had to do with DMB.

Nope. I think they were good because they sounded good. It's really not that difficult to understand. You openly stated that there are no songs that Butch or Rashawn make better. So, based on your logic, should it make logical sense that you have a generally bad opinion of both of them?

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

Nope. I think they were good because they sounded good. It's really not that difficult to understand. You openly stated that there are no songs that Butch or Rashawn make better. So, based on your logic, should it make logical sense that you have a generally bad opinion of both of them?

You're ignoring the fact that you admitted they made some songs worse. There are three options here - they improved a song, the song remained the same, or they made the song worse. When your two opinions are options 2 and 3, I don't see how you can logically have a positive opinion of them.

And yes, I do generally feel that way about Butch and Rashawn. I had zero qualms about Butch leaving, and would have zero qualms about Rashawn leaving (even if his playing has improved over the past couple years).

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

You're ignoring the fact that you admitted they made some songs worse. There are three options here - they improved a song, the song remained the same, or they made the song worse. When your two opinions are options 2 and 3, I don't see how you can logically have a positive opinion of them.

And yes, I do generally feel that way about Butch and Rashawn. I had zero qualms about Butch leaving, and would have zero qualms about Rashawn leaving (even if his playing has improved over the past couple years).

I'm not ignoring that. I admit, there are two songs that The Ladies sounded out of place on for me. So what? There are 10 songs I liked them on. Just because I didn't like them on two songs doesn't mean that I think they are bad. It just means I didn't like them on those two songs.

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

I'm not ignoring that. I admit, there are two songs that The Ladies sounded out of place on for me. So what? There are 10 songs I liked them on. Just because I didn't like them on two songs doesn't mean that I think they are bad. It just means I didn't like them on those two songs.

So, mostly indifferent plus somewhat bad equals good for you?

[OneSweetMonkey]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

So, mostly indifferent plus somewhat bad equals good for you?

Dude, I'm not saying it all again. You either don't read well or don't comprehend well.

Actually, I will say it again... just one more time... They didn't make the songs better. They made them different. And the difference in most of the songs they were on sounded good (THAT equals good for me... are you with me so far??). There were two songs that I didn't like them on (big deal). I REALLY don't understand what is so difficult for you to understand. What I do understand is that you are so incredibly closed minded to other peoples opinions that you simply cannot comprehend when those opinions differ from your own. It's ridiculous to you that people enjoy things that you don't. It's nearly impossible for there to be any logic behind an opinion that isn't the same as your own, and that makes it very difficult to have conversations with you that don't turn frustrating. You REALLY just need to learn to respect other peoples opinions, and try to find logic in the idea that not everyone agrees with your every thought. So yeah...

[coolhotwaves]

Only like them on Stay and Angel. Much like Butch, I'm glad I'll never hear them with the band again. Although I'd take them and Butch back if we could have Roi back and lose Jeff and Rashawn.

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

Actually, I will say it again... just one more time... They didn't make the songs better. They made them different. And the difference in most of the songs they were on sounded good (THAT equals good for me... are you with me so far??). There were two songs that I didn't like them on (big deal). I REALLY don't understand what is so difficult for you to understand.

Okay, so mostly different but of equal quality, plus some bad, equals good. Got it.

And if you really think people liked them, I suggest you read this, which includes opinions by most likely more people who actually saw DMB with them than are responding to your poll:

http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/ar...p/t-61103.html

Originally Posted by OneSweetMonkey

What I do understand is that you are so incredibly closed minded to other peoples opinions that you simply cannot comprehend when those opinions differ from your own. It's ridiculous to you that people enjoy things that you don't. It's nearly impossible for there to be any logic behind an opinion that isn't the same as your own, and that makes it very difficult to have conversations with you that don't turn frustrating. You REALLY just need to learn to respect other peoples opinions, and try to find logic in the idea that not everyone agrees with your every thought. So yeah...

I would respect your opinion much more if you weren't inclined to blindly accept nearly every aspect of DMB as good.

And you are very wrong to think the fanbase was anything but overjoyed when they were dismissed.

[DMBzilla]

Also, here's a poll from 2009 - http://antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=266022

Here's one from 2002, where the top answer was "I'm glad those song ruining bitches are gone."

http://antsmarching.org/forum/showth...=Lovely+ladies

[currupt3d**]

Did not enjoy them on a single song.