ESPN 30 for 30

[DrewD55]

Originally Posted by Styx Cover Band

Did ESPN actually get Bartman to speak during this (I don't have ESPN anymore so have not seen anything on this) As a Cubs fan I'm ashamed of what we (Cubs fans) did to Bartman. He didn't cost the Cubs anything and it made his life hell for a few years. Hell Alex Gonzalez booted a tailor made double play ball a few pitches later.

No, he wasn't interviewed.

[FunkyTeaParty]

I heard that they tried like hell to get a sit down with him they just couldn't make it happen.

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

I heard that they tried like hell to get a sit down with him they just couldn't make it happen.

i wonder how much $ they threw at him for a small interview

[Noles20]

They just showed a several minute clip on outside the lines. It looks very good. Can't wait to see it.

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

Turned on SportsCenter early this morning. Saw that the Bartman film Catching Hell is finally airing tonight @ 8 ET. I was watching that game when it happened. Wasn't really pulling for one team or the other and would have been happy for either, but at the time, I thought the guy should have gotten out of Alou's way. Except that the ball was out of the field of play, so a fan touching it wasn't interference. I'm sure this film will be well-done, but I have an issue with it right off the bat, which is that the situation is no different than the Denkinger call in the '85 WS between the Cardinals and Royals or Buckner's blown play in '86. All three things occurred in Game 6s. To blame a series loss in any one of them on a single play like that is looking at it in hindsight, which is taking the easy way out. The teams all had Game 7 to redeem themselves and didn't. Hell, the Cubs still only needed that last out in their Game 6, even after the Bartman play, and their pitching fell apart. That said, I'll still watch it.

There's a really good story on ESPN.com right now about Pat Looney, a Chicago firefighter who was sitting right in front of Bartman and pulled his hands back at the last minute, allowing Bartman to be the one to make contact with the ball. Even though he didn't touch it, he and his family were still targeted and threatened after the incident.

However, he makes a really good point that if anyone was to blame, it was SS Alex Gonzalez, who booted a double play ball that would have ended the inning. However, today, most baseball fans know the name Steve Bartman but have no idea that Gonzalez blew that play two batters later.

[DMBcubs3641]

This looks like a well-done piece. I won't be able to catch it tonight but I'll see it eventually. I still remember that exact moment like it was yesterday. Heartbreaking.

[41ravens]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

There's a really good story on ESPN.com right now about Pat Looney, a Chicago firefighter who was sitting right in front of Bartman and pulled his hands back at the last minute, allowing Bartman to be the one to make contact with the ball. Even though he didn't touch it, he and his family were still targeted and threatened after the incident.

However, he makes a really good point that if anyone was to blame, it was SS Alex Gonzalez, who booted a double play ball that would have ended the inning. However, today, most baseball fans know the name Steve Bartman but have no idea that Gonzalez blew that play two batters later.

this times eleventy billion. they just need to move on and leave the guy alone. this documentary is going to add nothing new to the story and this guy is never going to talk to anyone about it.

[TapNorris]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

Turned on SportsCenter early this morning. Saw that the Bartman film Catching Hell is finally airing tonight @ 8 ET. I was watching that game when it happened. Wasn't really pulling for one team or the other and would have been happy for either, but at the time, I thought the guy should have gotten out of Alou's way. Except that the ball was out of the field of play, so a fan touching it wasn't interference. I'm sure this film will be well-done, but I have an issue with it right off the bat, which is that the situation is no different than the Denkinger call in the '85 WS between the Cardinals and Royals or Buckner's blown play in '86. All three things occurred in Game 6s. To blame a series loss in any one of them on a single play like that is looking at it in hindsight, which is taking the easy way out. The teams all had Game 7 to redeem themselves and didn't. Hell, the Cubs still only needed that last out in their Game 6, even after the Bartman play, and their pitching fell apart. That said, I'll still watch it.

I still think that it was in the field of play, but just barely.

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by 41ravens

this times eleventy billion. they just need to move on and leave the guy alone. this documentary is going to add nothing new to the story and this guy is never going to talk to anyone about it.

He's basically been in hiding since a few days after the incident. It's horrible what he had, and has, to go through. From a fan standpoint I actually think what Buckner did was way worse since he was a player who should make that play, and Boston has seemingly forgiven him at this point (though I'm guessing winning a couple WS titles in the past decade helped with that a bit).

[Styx Cover Band]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

There's a really good story on ESPN.com right now about Pat Looney, a Chicago firefighter who was sitting right in front of Bartman and pulled his hands back at the last minute, allowing Bartman to be the one to make contact with the ball. Even though he didn't touch it, he and his family were still targeted and threatened after the incident.

However, he makes a really good point that if anyone was to blame, it was SS Alex Gonzalez, who booted a double play ball that would have ended the inning. However, today, most baseball fans know the name Steve Bartman but have no idea that Gonzalez blew that play two batters later.

Can you please link to this story I can't seem to find it on their site

Edit: Never mind I found it Link

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

He's basically been in hiding since a few days after the incident. It's horrible what he had, and has, to go through. From a fan standpoint I actually think what Buckner did was way worse since he was a player who should make that play, and Boston has seemingly forgiven him at this point (though I'm guessing winning a couple WS titles in the past decade helped with that a bit).

fans were way too rough on buckner as well. i agree that buckner's error is much worse than bartman's dumb move though.

in fairness to buckner, he shouldnt have even been in that game. 2 bad knees arthritis running through his body...he could barely bend over. doesn't give him a pass, but there's no way he should've been in that game

[dduncan6er]

Originally Posted by pathetic

fans were way too rough on buckner as well. i agree that buckner's error is much worse than bartman's dumb move though.

in fairness to buckner, he shouldnt have even been in that game. 2 bad knees arthritis running through his body...he could barely bend over. doesn't give him a pass, but there's no way he should've been in that game

There's also a decent chance the guy would have been safe at first anyway. I don't believe the pitcher was going over to cover and there's no way Buckner beats him to the base from where he would have fielded that ball.

[DMBcubs3641]

Originally Posted by TapNorris

I still think that it was in the field of play, but just barely.

I think it was the opposite, just barely out of play which is why intereference wasn't called and correctly so.

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by dduncan6er

There's also a decent chance the guy would have been safe at first anyway. I don't believe the pitcher was going over to cover and there's no way Buckner beats him to the base from where he would have fielded that ball.

very true, but the run doesn't score if buckner stops it atleast

[dduncan6er]

Originally Posted by pathetic

very true, but the run doesn't score if buckner stops it atleast

This is also true. They also blew a lead in game 7 of that series too.

[DrewD55]

Originally Posted by 41ravens

this times eleventy billion. they just need to move on and leave the guy alone. this documentary is going to add nothing new to the story and this guy is never going to talk to anyone about it.

I actually think it's going to add a lot. After reading up on it, it's not going to be a "what if?"-type of story, so much as it's about fans scapegoating the wrong target in the name of being fans, which is something that's really worth the time to discuss.

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by dduncan6er

This is also true. They also blew a lead in game 7 of that series too.

yezzzir. it's funny how many people think that game 6 ended the series.

i forget where i saw this, maybe an ESPN special, but in the bottom of the 9th inning before the inning started, "congratulations to the 1986 World Series Champions Boston Red Sox" was up on the scoreboard

[Absolute34]

Gonzalez should be the Buckner. What a terrible half inning. Cubs had a late lead in game 7 as well with their ace Kerry Wood on the mound. He could have spared that poor man (only 27 at the time I believe) and all would have been forgotten.

[DrewD55]

Originally Posted by pathetic

yezzzir. it's funny how many people think that game 6 ended the series.

i forget where i saw this, maybe an ESPN special, but in the bottom of the 9th inning before the inning started, "congratulations to the 1986 World Series Champions Boston Red Sox" was up on the scoreboard

Part 9 of Ken Burns' Baseball. Story was told by Bob Costas, who was supposed to cover the celebration. He said you never saw so much preparation taken down so fast, including his camera crew.

[Absolute34]

It is eerie how similar the cubs/sox debacles are.

[dduncan6er]

Originally Posted by Absolute34

It is eerie how similar the cubs/sox debacles are.

Difference is the Sox have won a world series in recent memory.

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

Part 9 of Ken Burns' Baseball. Story was told by Bob Costas, who was supposed to cover the celebration. He said you never saw so much preparation taken down so fast, including his camera crew.

you're right. i have these on vhs (lol i got them like 15 years ago for xmas)

[DrewD55]

Originally Posted by pathetic

you're right. i have these on vhs (lol i got them like 15 years ago for xmas)

Last I knew, the whole thing, including last year's "10th Inning", was streaming on Netflx.

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

Last I knew, the whole thing, including last year's "10th Inning", was streaming on Netflx.

nice!

what are your thoughts on the 10th inning? i watched it when it first came out. i thought it was decent...had to be done

[Absolute34]

Originally Posted by dduncan6er

Difference is the Sox have won a world series in recent memory.

Obviously, but it took a ring for Buckner to be forgiven, and I have a hunch that Cubs fans don't deep down in their hearts blame Bartman anymore.

[DrewD55]

Originally Posted by pathetic

nice!

what are your thoughts on the 10th inning? i watched it when it first came out. i thought it was decent...had to be done

I rewatched the whole thing earlier this summer when I found it on Netflix. Here's what I said when I wrote it up in the Movie thread last month:

http://antsmarching.org/forum/showpo...ostcount=57632

[pathetic]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

I rewatched the whole thing earlier this summer when I found it on Netflix. Here's what I said when I wrote it up in the Movie thread last month:

http://antsmarching.org/forum/showpo...ostcount=57632

agreed

i obviously dont mind the 03/04 sox coverage, i thought it was done well, but like you said it's overdone as a sports story. NESN (new england sport's network) put out a dvd called "faith rewarded" that was the best 2004 documentary on the sox imo. espn's was good, but not as good as nesns.

[Foreverford05]

Originally Posted by DrewD55

I actually think it's going to add a lot. After reading up on it, it's not going to be a "what if?"-type of story, so much as it's about fans scapegoating the wrong target in the name of being fans, which is something that's really worth the time to discuss.

I agree. I am very excited for this. Not being a cubs fan, or a baseball really for that matter, I think that this will shed some light on this monumental event and some people (like me) who didn't really understand what was going on at the time we understand a little more

[fluffhead_phish]

Really excited for this. Been waiting for a while

[41ravens]

Originally Posted by Absolute34

Obviously, but it took a ring for Buckner to be forgiven, and I have a hunch that Cubs fans don't deep down in their hearts blame Bartman anymore.

not the smart ones. i didn't even blame the dude right when it happened. as has been discussed to death, there was way more shit that happened in that game that lead to the collapse then this guy trying to catch a foul ball.