◊◊ The PGA Tour & Tiger Talk ◊◊

[BruceW]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

Not surprising. Golf is pretty awful in general right now.

Edit: nvm I kept reading and found your reasonings I get it

[BruceW]

As a pro golfer, albeit not yet on the PGA Tour, everyone is right in their own arguments in here. Ratings and general public interest are down b/c there isn't the Tiger, LeBron, Brady/Rodgers/Cowboys, Federer/Nadal out there right now. However, the PGA Tour and all other professional tours are much stronger, deeper, and more talented than they have ever been by a long shot. It's unbelievable. That doesn't exonerate golf from suffering and losing interest from the general public, sponsors, and manufacturers/retailers. It's growing in some aspects, but failing in others and that can't be denied. It's cyclical, and something or someone will come along to reel some of the casual drifters back in.

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by BruceW

As a pro golfer, albeit not yet on the PGA Tour, everyone is right in their own arguments in here. Ratings and general public interest are down b/c there isn't the Tiger, LeBron, Brady/Rodgers/Cowboys, Federer/Nadal out there right now. However, the PGA Tour and all other professional tours are much stronger, deeper, and more talented than they have ever been by a long shot. It's unbelievable. That doesn't exonerate golf from suffering and losing interest from the general public, sponsors, and manufacturers/retailers. It's growing in some aspects, but failing in others and that can't be denied. It's cyclical, and something or someone will come along to reel some of the casual drifters back in.

Is it possible that golf just experienced an unusual growth in popularity with Tiger? I don't know the ratings before him, but were they similar to they are today? Hard to compare Jack and Arnold with today when it comes to ratings but you know what I mean.


Maybe the Tiger era was just the cap of viewers that golf will ever have? Golf is just not as popular as a sport than football, baseball, basketball, etc for a number of reasons. The sport/fans just have to accept it (I know that's not how advertisers work but whatever). I honestly believe each sport has a cap on how many views they'll ever have for their biggest game(s).

The media/dumb fans want to compare every single major America sporting event to the Super Bowl and that's just silly. 5-8 million people for a major today sounds about right without a huge name like Tiger or even Phil.

I do agree that it is cyclical tbh

[lockman21]

The problem isn't just TV viewers, it's that the sport is struggling in a lot of other areas. Nike is getting out of golf, Adidas is trying to sell TaylorMade, courses are closing across the country at alarming rates, etc.

[Climb2safety]

I always get confused as to why sports fans care about overall viewership of their sport?

I like watching it, why do I care if it's popularity is trending either way? Unless it's in danger of going away which good is not.

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by lockman21

The problem isn't just TV viewers, it's that the sport is struggling in a lot of other areas. Nike is getting out of golf, Adidas is trying to sell TaylorMade, courses are closing across the country at alarming rates, etc.

i dont doubt that courses are closing, but are they closing at alarming rates?

[ToySoldier#34]

I haven't been able to get a tee time the last two weekends at any of 4 different courses, kind of alarming

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

I haven't been able to get a tee time the last two weekends at any of 4 different courses, kind of alarming

Sounds like your area needs more courses.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

Sounds like your area needs more courses.

It's actually surprising how few options there are for really good public courses in the area, close enough to a ton of them in southern Maine and NH though

[rickyh24]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

It's actually surprising how few options there are for really good public courses in the area, close enough to a ton of them in southern Maine and NH though

There's just so many in my area. Where i grew up in Maine I had a few I would go to within 15 miles or so. Where I live now there are just countless courses within 30 minutes driving time.

[recentlyJTR41]

Haven't heard of any courses closing around me. Then again I live in Georgia and it's a pretty popular sport.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by rickyh24

There's just so many in my area. Where i grew up in Maine I had a few I would go to within 15 miles or so. Where I live now there are just countless courses within 30 minutes driving time.

Where in Maine was that?

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

Haven't heard of any courses closing around me. Then again I live in Georgia and it's a pretty popular sport.

a course near me just shut down a few weeks ago, luxury condos are going up in its place. i'm north of boston

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by mr. testaverde

a course near me just shut down a few weeks ago, luxury condos are going up in its place. i'm north of boston

Is this a referendum on the state of golf or our housing market?

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by mr. testaverde

i dont doubt that courses are closing, but are they closing at alarming rates?

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

I haven't been able to get a tee time the last two weekends at any of 4 different courses, kind of alarming

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...es-are-burning

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by mr. testaverde

a course near me just shut down a few weeks ago, luxury condos are going up in its place. i'm north of boston

Scratch that, I do know of one closing, but a hospital is being built in its place. It's actually a country club that was bought and all those houses will lose their value significantly. Ouch. Kind of a shitty situation.


But hey, Top Golf's are popping up like crazy across America!

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by lockman21

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/featu...es-are-burning

good read. found this worthy of quoting:

To some extent, all those course closures are simply a market correction: The golf industry went through a building boom in the 1990s and early 2000s, driven by developers who used golf courses as amenities to help sell homes. But the closures also reflect changing preferences for leisure activities. Participation in the sport is down 20 percent since 2003, according to data from the National Golf Foundation, and homebuilders have moved on to new types of recreational amenities, including manmade lakes and agricultural communities.

i did some more reading up on this and found this article on ESPN from 2015
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/...ne-says-report

found this noteworthy:

The trend in new golf developments in Europe appears to be toward short, compact courses -- comprising six, nine or 12 holes -- that are public and family-friendly.

golf is just like baseball, too long and boring, so we must change it to accommodate the people who don't like it much anyways!!

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by mr. testaverde

good read. found this worthy of quoting:




i did some more reading up on this and found this article on ESPN from 2015
http://www.espn.com/golf/story/_/id/...ne-says-report

found this noteworthy:


golf is just like baseball, too long and boring, so we must change it to accommodate the people who don't like it much anyways!!

Or people could just play 6 holes and quit

I know of one in Atlanta I've heard of, but I don't know how popular they are elsewhere but par 3 executive courses seem to be the best for people that don't want to play a whole 18 that has some par 5's and what not.

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by mr. testaverde

golf is just like baseball, too long and boring, so we must change it to accommodate the people who don't like it much anyways!!

I mean, Top Golf filled that void. I wonder how much that translates to people actually getting interested in the real game, though.

You guys remember this stupid initiative? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s9HKnVjd48

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

Or people could just play 6 holes and quit

I know of one in Atlanta I've heard of, but I don't know how popular they are elsewhere but par 3 executive courses seem to be the best for people that don't want to play a whole 18 that has some par 5's and what not.

in their defense, if someone just wants to play 6 holes at a 9/18 hole course, they're paying for 9 or 18 holes. from a purely financial point of view, i can see why that would turn people away

Originally Posted by lockman21

I mean, Top Golf filled that void. I wonder how much that translates to people actually getting interested in the real game, though.

You guys remember this stupid initiative? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s9HKnVjd48

oh man what a dumb idea that was

[Route_2]

So, sounds like the Tiger boom led to an oversupply in courses and sports/golf marketing (apparel, equipment, etc.) in the 2000s and now that Tiger is gone the market is correcting back to 'normal' levels. I don't really see a huge problem.

Lots of courses still in my area and hard to get tee times on the weekends unless you plan ahead. Maybe it's just a localized problem in some regions.

Between Jack and Tiger there was no single golf superstar and the sport survived. The golf media (and fans) just got through a ~15 year period where one golfer 'moved the needle' and they are desperately searching for another name to fit that paradigm. Rory was supposed to be it, but he has fizzled the last few seasons. They just need to adjust back to the pre-Tiger paradigm until the next chosen one comes along.

[ToySoldier#34]

Originally Posted by lockman21

You guys remember this stupid initiative? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s9HKnVjd48

So dumb, I do believe in "tee it forward" though

[BruceW]

Originally Posted by lockman21

The problem isn't just TV viewers, it's that the sport is struggling in a lot of other areas. Nike is getting out of golf, Adidas is trying to sell TaylorMade, courses are closing across the country at alarming rates, etc.

While what you’re saying is not untrue, I’d say your reasoning behind it is slightly misguided. Nike is not “getting out of golf”. They are becoming more focused on what they are best at: apparel. They have more players on their “staff” than ever, and now they save millions by not having to do R&D or anything else associated with the equipment side. Smart move honestly because they weren’t doing well with that part anyways.

The adidas/TM thing is interesting and a lot of it falls on mistakes made by TM at the corporate decision making level.

Golf courses are not closing at “alarming rates”. I’m not sure where you got that from, but that’s just not true. Are some closing? Yea. Are new ones opening? Yea. I guess it all depends on your area and what you’re subjected to that forms someone’s opinion on that one.

[kydmb99]

On an unrelated side note, I finally broke down and bought a new Taylor Made M2 driver after having a Nike one for the last 7-8 years. Holy hell what an improvement

[ToySoldier#34]

Just curious for people who play here, what is your favorite and least favorite golf shot that you have on a consistent basis?

Favorite: Hitting a GIR from 180 or further out
Least Favorite: Steep downhill lie to an uphill target while carrying over water

[kydmb99]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

Just curious for people who play here, what is your favorite and least favorite golf shot that you have on a consistent basis?

Favorite: Hitting a GIR from 180 or further out
Least Favorite: Steep downhill lie to an uphill target while carrying over water

Favorite: Hitting a par 5 in 2
Least favorite: 200 + yard par 3s

[ToySoldier#34]

Colin Montgomerie - absolute asshole, I have seen him drop F bombs at young golf fans who did absolutely nothing wrong two out of the last three days, yell at some woman I am assuming is his wife, complete temper tantrum over how hot is is, good lord

[snow1868]

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/rickie...osu-engineers/

This is why I Iove Rickie.

[TwoStep2888]

Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34

Colin Montgomerie - absolute asshole, I have seen him drop F bombs at young golf fans who did absolutely nothing wrong two out of the last three days, yell at some woman I am assuming is his wife, complete temper tantrum over how hot is is, good lord

never liked Colin

Originally Posted by snow1868

https://pistolsfiringblog.com/rickie...osu-engineers/

This is why I Iove Rickie.

I do like Rickie

[mr. testaverde]

for the first time in his career, Tiger is not ranked in the World Golf Rankings Top 1,000; coming in at 1,005. this is no surprise

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2017/07/1...golf-top-1000/