The DMB Formula - Looking Forward - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 05-01-2023, 09:56 PM   #1
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The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

DISCLAIMER: This is a copy / paste from my comment in the new studio album thread. I hope either post gets a few reads for consideration...

I'm ready to put my life savings on betting that DMB is following the path of the Grateful Dead... it's in their DNA and they've been plugging away at it for a bit. I feel stupid for not recognizing it sooner. Coran is a huge GD fan and DMB's model was based on theirs. They inherited their sound system, they followed their recording policies, they are following the whole process of what made GD such a long-term success. Look at Record Store Day releases (RSD)... Amongst the mob turnout for Taylor Swift albums are Deadheads STILL grabbing the latest Grateful Dead / Jerry Garcia Band releases.

I believe it will be live albums moving forward, even for new music... the future of their discography will be live albums. We'll get some gems like live takes in a controlled environment (Dave & Carter's Haunted Hollow set for example / D&T Performance). Anything studio would be an occasional single or a cover song for a compilation / tribute album for another artist.

Perhaps a few old studio session tracks get released as companions to anniversary or vinyl releases & re-presses. The "New Studio" stuff will actually be old... and "New Songs" will be on live albums.

This is the formula... all of the parallels are there. I don't hate it if I KNOW this is the process.

The sheer momentum and success of the Big 3 (followed by TWLS / Everyday / Busted Stuff) was such a hell of a ride that I feel like I've had the blinders on in hopes to recapture that. Beautiful albums, but this is a live band... still willing and wanting to tour. In sitting and thinking about this, I fear a studio pulls these guys further apart than playing on a stage together. As badly as I'd love to hear more studio tracks like the Big 3... if this is the formula, I'm 100% on board and it will change the negative feelings I've had about the direction of DMB in regards to recent studio efforts.

If any of you feel this holds weight... I'd encourage you to adopt the mentality and keep this in mind going forward. I think I believe it and I know it will change my outlook for DMB positively... I also feel AM.org could use that positivity. It's pretty heavy with disappointment in here, and it's a bad look for us as fans and supporters of DMB. I'm partially guilty.

Thoughts???
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  • Old 05-02-2023, 03:01 AM   #2
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Interesting idea and comparison. I hope they have another album in them but agree that live releases is really the only way to truly appreciate their work.

    They will tour until Carter can’t handle it and wouldn’t be surprised to see them do a long run at the Sphere in Vegas or something similar to keep going and have less travel in a few years. Hell, Aerosmith is doing a tour and all of those guys are OLD and have a history of hitting the sauce/drugs so if they can get on the road, so can Carter who seems healthy and vibrant still.

    I also wonder if there is a post-DMB phase when Dave still records/tours with the Friends (new or older version) and continues to pump out music too.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 05:58 AM   #3
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    I like but don't love the idea

    I will always love great studio recordings. But I entirely agree that DMB is at its heart a live band.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 06:30 AM   #4
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by scollie41 View Post
    Interesting idea and comparison. I hope they have another album in them but agree that live releases is really the only way to truly appreciate their work.

    They will tour until Carter can’t handle it and wouldn’t be surprised to see them do a long run at the Sphere in Vegas or something similar to keep going and have less travel in a few years. Hell, Aerosmith is doing a tour and all of those guys are OLD and have a history of hitting the sauce/drugs so if they can get on the road, so can Carter who seems healthy and vibrant still.

    I also wonder if there is a post-DMB phase when Dave still records/tours with the Friends (new or older version) and continues to pump out music too.
    I strongly agree that Carter is the key to how long/how much DMB tours. He's a monster, but it's also physically brutal.

    At the minimum, I think there's a post-DMB D&T/D&F presence for a long while - or as long as Dave wants to do it. I also think you might see DMB shrink their tour in the coming years but still have a touring presence. They play a LOT of shows... I could see them trimming it down to fewer shows but still touring some. As far as I can tell, the touring is still pretty lucrative for them. So I'd imagine they'll keep it rolling for a while longer.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 06:59 AM   #5
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    DMB has been around longer, and played more shows than the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead also put out a lot more studio albums (in their prime) than DMB.

    They both toured a lot, that’s about the only comparison worth drawing.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 07:54 AM   #6
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Not ideal for me.

    My favorite live DMB is seeing them live. Most of our listening for since we started listening in '94 has been the studio albums. Of course we've listened to tons of live recordings, but it's the albums that get the most play. Along these lines it's all about the vault for me. I want more recordings, would love more demos and the like. Ideally, however, they keep recording & releasing more/new music.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 08:26 AM   #7
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    At this point, we have more live albums than we want. They're live shows are not really getting any better. Of course there are highlights, but overall, it's just natural to diminish in quality as they age.

    Every time I see Phil Collins, I feel terrible for him. Not sure what other compounding health issues he had, but if there's every a chance that Carter ends up like that, I'd say give up touring and focus on studio stuff, or whoever wants to can retire and enjoy life and Dave will do whatever he's going to do.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 08:44 AM   #8
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by jcwalb2 View Post
    I strongly agree that Carter is the key to how long/how much DMB tours. He's a monster, but it's also physically brutal.

    At the minimum, I think there's a post-DMB D&T/D&F presence for a long while - or as long as Dave wants to do it. I also think you might see DMB shrink their tour in the coming years but still have a touring presence. They play a LOT of shows... I could see them trimming it down to fewer shows but still touring some. As far as I can tell, the touring is still pretty lucrative for them. So I'd imagine they'll keep it rolling for a while longer.
    They may do what Widespread has done eventually. Panic just does multi-night weekend stuff now. But Panic is as good now as they ever were with the exception of not having Mikey.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 08:46 AM   #9
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    I'd prefer this format but have not seen it in the band/mgmt's actions. Since AFTW at least, there's always been this two-sided talk from DM of "I'm not sure why we're putting together a traditional album" "Do people listen to music this way, anymore" We've got an album worth of old songs"...and then the band proceeds to take a couple years to put together a traditional album, with one or two lost dogs patched in there.

    I think unfortunately, that's the formula moving forward
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    Old 05-02-2023, 08:50 AM   #10
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by resumesomething View Post
    At this point, we have more live albums than we want. They're live shows are not really getting any better. Of course there are highlights, but overall, it's just natural to diminish in quality as they age.
    I also meant to say something like this...has there been a Live Show, post-2020 that's been released? The band seems like less of an evolving live act than ever...while not quite a nostalgia act...there's not really much growth to a song, once it hits the stage these days...

    Last tune I can think of that got a little bloom was Sweet in 2021. That's it
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    Old 05-02-2023, 08:57 AM   #11
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by prdstmnky36 View Post
    DMB has been around longer, and played more shows than the Grateful Dead. The Grateful Dead also put out a lot more studio albums (in their prime) than DMB.

    They both toured a lot, that’s about the only comparison worth drawing.
    Has it really been longer than the Grateful Dead? I guess because "The Dead", "The Other Ones", "Dead & Co.", etc, kept touring after Garcia died I didn't realize it's been that long. I mean... Garcia died almost 30 years ago, neh? Damn.

    Sorry, I'm just lamenting the passage of time here.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 09:08 AM   #12
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    This is a pretty solid theory. I wish it weren’t the case because I’d love the magic that DMB once brought to the studio. However, I’m thankful that they are the great touring act that they have always been.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 10:34 AM   #13
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by twostepr41 View Post
    They may do what Widespread has done eventually. Panic just does multi-night weekend stuff now. But Panic is as good now as they ever were with the exception of not having Mikey.
    100% what I have been thinking...for the past few years.

    But I also like to point out that Paul Motian, Elvin Jones, and several other stellar drummers have played well into and past their 70s. Carter can do the same, but it wouldn't hurt for them to lighten the mileage.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 10:38 AM   #14
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    I just still feel like these guys are capable of making an excellent studio album. Granted a lot of things need to align for that to actually happen. But I do think it's possible.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 02:55 PM   #15
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by NiCK Crush View Post
    I just still feel like these guys are capable of making an excellent studio album. Granted a lot of things need to align for that to actually happen. But I do think it's possible.
    Well...it's been more than twenty years.

    I'm on board with the Dead model though honestly. That seems to be a more realistic outlook than wishing on a star for another Big 3/tLWS to drop.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 03:06 PM   #16
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ZackR View Post
    Well...it's been more than twenty years.

    I'm on board with the Dead model though honestly. That seems to be a more realistic outlook than wishing on a star for another Big 3/tLWS to drop.

    Good to hear from you and cool to see you on here still Zack! All my best my dude
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    Old 05-02-2023, 03:13 PM   #17
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    UTTAD and Crash were songs we already had they toured a few years with, I think they do already have the material already written we know about to come close to a Busted Stuff quality album.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 03:14 PM   #18
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    I'll believe it when I see it, otherwise I'll assume things will stay similar to how they've been
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    Old 05-02-2023, 07:36 PM   #19
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jamima2fl View Post
    Good to hear from you and cool to see you on here still Zack! All my best my dude
    Same to you! Always nice to see an old friend.
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    Old 05-02-2023, 09:38 PM   #20
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    i think they release studio albums at least for as long as the streak continues. if/when the streak breaks, they won't have that hanging over them for releasing an album moving forward.
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    Old 05-03-2023, 04:23 AM   #21
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by grilldanmo View Post
    100% what I have been thinking...for the past few years.

    But I also like to point out that Paul Motian, Elvin Jones, and several other stellar drummers have played well into and past their 70s. Carter can do the same, but it wouldn't hurt for them to lighten the mileage.
    Another option would be to return to the two set format, but make the first set a Dave and Tim (and maybe Buddy as well?) set, and then set two with the full band.
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    Old 05-03-2023, 05:24 AM   #22
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Jamima2fl View Post
    DISCLAIMER: This is a copy / paste from my comment in the new studio album thread. I hope either post gets a few reads for consideration...

    I'm ready to put my life savings on betting that DMB is following the path of the Grateful Dead... it's in their DNA and they've been plugging away at it for a bit. I feel stupid for not recognizing it sooner. Coran is a huge GD fan and DMB's model was based on theirs. They inherited their sound system, they followed their recording policies, they are following the whole process of what made GD such a long-term success. Look at Record Store Day releases (RSD)... Amongst the mob turnout for Taylor Swift albums are Deadheads STILL grabbing the latest Grateful Dead / Jerry Garcia Band releases.

    I believe it will be live albums moving forward, even for new music... the future of their discography will be live albums. We'll get some gems like live takes in a controlled environment (Dave & Carter's Haunted Hollow set for example / D&T Performance). Anything studio would be an occasional single or a cover song for a compilation / tribute album for another artist.

    Perhaps a few old studio session tracks get released as companions to anniversary or vinyl releases & re-presses. The "New Studio" stuff will actually be old... and "New Songs" will be on live albums.

    This is the formula... all of the parallels are there. I don't hate it if I KNOW this is the process.

    The sheer momentum and success of the Big 3 (followed by TWLS / Everyday / Busted Stuff) was such a hell of a ride that I feel like I've had the blinders on in hopes to recapture that. Beautiful albums, but this is a live band... still willing and wanting to tour. In sitting and thinking about this, I fear a studio pulls these guys further apart than playing on a stage together. As badly as I'd love to hear more studio tracks like the Big 3... if this is the formula, I'm 100% on board and it will change the negative feelings I've had about the direction of DMB in regards to recent studio efforts.

    If any of you feel this holds weight... I'd encourage you to adopt the mentality and keep this in mind going forward. I think I believe it and I know it will change my outlook for DMB positively... I also feel AM.org could use that positivity. It's pretty heavy with disappointment in here, and it's a bad look for us as fans and supporters of DMB. I'm partially guilty.

    Thoughts???
    Just some thoughts on this...

    1 - The Grateful Dead didn't enjoy working in the studio, but they still did it. DMB does (per Stefan, Dave and Carter).
    2 - The Grateful Dead released studio albums all throughout their career, albeit towards the end they were spaced out a bit more.
    3 - The Grateful Dead's biggest studio album was released 20 years after their first studio album, and they capitalized on that momentum by releasing another studio album two years later.
    4 - The Grateful Dead had been working on a new studio album since 1992, it was just never finished. The rumored songs said to be recorded for the album were released on the live album "Ready Or Not".

    It was never the model of the Grateful Dead to abandon the studio and release live albums only. They didn't stop working in the studio until Jerry's death and Grateful Dead disbanded.
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    Old 05-03-2023, 09:44 PM   #23
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Beauford3641 View Post
    Another option would be to return to the two set format, but make the first set a Dave and Tim (and maybe Buddy as well?) set, and then set two with the full band.

    i think the altered format that we saw at the gorge in 2021 will be a likely option so everybody can get into the show earlier than having an entire D+T set plus a break, but still able to hold back carter if he needs a short night.

    they'd be able to do dave solo, then dave and tim, then dave, tim, and fonz on something like crush, then bring out the horns for something with the other 3, then add in buddy. playing full band minus drums works for a couple songs. before you know it, the show is half over then carter comes out for the last ~10 songs.
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    Old 05-03-2023, 11:44 PM   #24
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Interesting takes and rebuttals here. I am curious to see what becomes of the standard summer tour in the years to come. Bummed they are skipping Denver this year, even if Fiddler's is a subpar venue.

    I am still holding out hope for another full band studio effort. Everything Dave has said regarding WATM implies, in my opinion, that this album is more of a... mixtape, if you will. The absence of a full band effort on every song is proof enough of that to me. The track lengths... we all share the same opinion in that regard. I cannot see Dave, Carter or Stefan accepting this album as their final project capping off their legacy in the studio as musicians. Definitely not Stefan. I know times change as the years go by and the band morphs around the remaining OG's but from my experience these past few tours since Buddy came along, these dudes are having a blast up there on stage and as a group. They've got more music to play, and I will remain steadfast in my belief that they've got the itch to create something beautiful again as a full band. I am excited to give WATM my undivided attention upon release but with an album title echoing a mushroom trip, I don't think this is the end.

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    Old 05-04-2023, 04:39 AM   #25
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by spoot388 View Post
    i think the altered format that we saw at the gorge in 2021 will be a likely option so everybody can get into the show earlier than having an entire D+T set plus a break, but still able to hold back carter if he needs a short night.

    they'd be able to do dave solo, then dave and tim, then dave, tim, and fonz on something like crush, then bring out the horns for something with the other 3, then add in buddy. playing full band minus drums works for a couple songs. before you know it, the show is half over then carter comes out for the last ~10 songs.
    Excellent call. I can absolutely see that happening and also working very well.
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    Old 05-04-2023, 06:40 AM   #26
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Unpopular opinion probably: I have zero desire for any new music from this band. Steep decline in quality since BW.
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    Old 05-04-2023, 06:48 AM   #27
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RunawayTwoStep View Post
    Unpopular opinion probably: I have zero desire for any new music from this band. Steep decline in quality since BW.
    What is the main missing ingredient since BW? (Hint: Its Leroi).
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    Old 05-08-2023, 07:36 PM   #28
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    “I look forward to next time, when we’ll all be in that room together" - Dave in Relix article
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    Old 05-09-2023, 07:00 AM   #29
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RunawayTwoStep View Post
    Unpopular opinion probably: I have zero desire for any new music from this band. Steep decline in quality since BW.
    Unpopular opinion: Away From The World > Big Whiskey
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    Old 05-10-2023, 01:31 PM   #30
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    Re: The DMB Formula - Looking Forward

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ToySoldier#34 View Post
    “I look forward to next time, when we’ll all be in that room together" - Dave in Relix article
    Really enjoyed this article. Dave’s take on their songs “on the shelf” makes me think another one to a few will come to see the light in the studio. I’m also still stoked for this tour. The limited video I saw posted of Busted Stuff sounded clean and seeing Bismarck make a return is a sign of good things to come. Monsters is tasty and LFAV is incredibly pleasant, no matter what the naysayers be sayin’.
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