The Decline of Baseball in America

[YankeesDMB41]

Over the last 10 years, ratings for primetime games and the world series have been steadily going down, attendance as well. Many have argued that MLB has been surpased by the NBA as the #2 sport in America. Do you think America has lost its interest in baseball? If so why? I really have no real explanation for why this is happening. Maybe it's the lack of stars? Back in the day, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Jeter, Pedro, and A-Rod were household names. Your mom knew who these guys were. Kershaw, Trout, Mccuttchen, and Harvey are great players, but are they superstars? Is Kershaw a household name? IMO no. Is it the lack of offense? I want opinions, what does everyone think?

[uro55]

Two words. Attention span.

[rustysurf83]

Baseball takes too long. See: every fucking game with the Red Sox or Yankees.

[recentlyJTR41]

Lol 73 million people bought tix this year. 40 million went to minor league games I read earlier.

Last year was one of the highest rated seasons ever if I remember correctly

And second post. People are stupid. MLB needs to add "swag" and other elements to attract stupid viewers who will buy tix like the NFL. Hate it, but they need more flash. No steroids do hurt but that's tricky. CFB seems bigger than the NBA IMO but I could be wrong.

But, aren't teams making more money now than ever with these regional broadcasting rights? Billion dollar deals happening left and right, right?

[DMBZeppelin]

Lots of factors.

Most important is baseball is run by a bunch of old out of touch geezers. Replay is just making its way into the game and it's implementation has been nothing short of awful. Being slow to adapt has been such a hindrance to the sport. It's also the only pro sport where the playing field is different dimensions for each team, and each league has different rules.

Speed of the game with batters stepping out of the box and pitchers stepping off the mound. That really needs to stop to speed up games. A faster game would equal a more exciting product.

Salary floor and salary cap are in great need with the MLB. The NFL is great because any team from any market can win a championship. In the MLB sure the Rays and Twins can win a World Series but they are always at a huge disadvantage to a team like the Yankees that can spend mind boggling amounts more. Parity just doesn't exist in the MLB like it does in other sports.

The last big factor is it's hard to play baseball growing up. Not a lot of public fields. The best athletes as a result wind up in the NFL or NBA and not the MLB.

[YankeesDMB41]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

Lol 73 million people bought tix this year. 40 million went to minor league games I read earlier.

Last year was one of the highest rated seasons ever if I remember correctly

And second post. People are stupid. MLB needs to add "swag" and other elements to attract stupid viewers who will buy tix like the NFL. Hate it, but they need more flash. No steroids do hurt but that's tricky. CFB seems bigger than the NBA IMO but I could be wrong.

But, aren't teams making more money now than ever with these regional broadcasting rights? Billion dollar deals happening left and right, right?

Teams still have their fans, but on a national level, baseball is hurting

[DMBZeppelin]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

Teams still have their fans, but on a national level, baseball is hurting

Exactly. Teams like the Yankees, Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, ect. will do what they do, but baseball isn't in high demand across the board.

[uro55]

I'd also say there's an argument to be made that it's not totally, or as much, the decline of baseball, but the rise of other things.

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

Teams still have their fans, but on a national level, baseball is hurting

I see what you're saying, but baseball is not as far in the cellar as people like to think. It'll get better here soon enough with the new Comissioner.

Agree with everything Zep said. Speed of the game is the biggest factor. But I love the slow pace. But I'm also old fashioned and don't have the attention span of a 5 year old.

[YankeesDMB41]

2003 average primetime Fox rating: 3.5
2013 average primetime Fox rating: 2.3

It's a very steady decrease if you look at it yearly

[recentlyJTR41]

Originally Posted by uro55

I'd also say there's an argument to be made that it's not totally, or as much, the decline of baseball, but the rise of other things.

True. CFB is about to boom like no other with this Playoff. The ratings and betting will make it very lucrative.

Also soccer I read back during the World Cup that the US has the HIGHEST number of youth soccer players. 20 million. That's crazy. Next 10-15 it will be up with NFL, MLB, NBA

[rustysurf83]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

I see what you're saying, but baseball is not as far in the cellar as people like to think. It'll get better here soon enough with the new Comissioner.

Agree with everything Zep said. Speed of the game is the biggest factor. But I love the slow pace. But I'm also old fashioned and don't have the attention span of a 5 year old.

You are silly. MLB is less popular than the NFL, NBA, NASCAR, and shortly...the NHL. Its going to be relegated to fringe sport status in a few years...

[BAHHHTIWaC]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

2003 average primetime Fox rating: 3.5
2013 average primetime Fox rating: 2.3

It's a very steady decrease if you look at it yearly

As has been stated, broadcasts regionally the game has been just fine.

As for your numbers, it's Fox. If it's not my favorite team, I probably won't tune in to hear Joe Buck. (seriously, fuck Joe Buck)

The speed of the game definitely needs to quicken as well.

[Lee3691]

I am one of those that once loved baseball, but now its a sport I don't follow nearly as closely. In fact when my team is eliminated from playoff consideration, I basically stop following the sport. It's not just that the games are longer, but it just takes so much time to follow baseball closely with all of the games. It's crazy that the sport that will have more people attending it, and the highest paid athletes is going to be a semi fringe sport. I know this sounds ridiculous, but what if the games were shortened to 6 innings? Quicker games and you wouldn't have as many of the pitching issues of the last 25 years.

[YankeesDMB41]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

I am one of those that once loved baseball, but now its a sport I don't follow nearly as closely. In fact when my team is eliminated from playoff consideration, I basically stop following the sport. It's not just that the games are longer, but it just takes so much time to follow baseball closely with all of the games. It's crazy that the sport that will have more people attending it, and the highest paid athletes is going to be a semi fringe sport. I know this sounds ridiculous, but what if the games were shortened to 6 innings? Quicker games and you wouldn't have as many of the pitching issues of the last 25 years.

this is 100 percent me...i remember watching the 02 world series and being on the edge of my seat. I now have not watched a playoff game not involving the Yankees in years

[DMBZeppelin]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

Agree with everything Zep said. Speed of the game is the biggest factor. But I love the slow pace. But I'm also old fashioned and don't have the attention span of a 5 year old.

I don't have an issue with it, but it's awful for casual fans. Whether we like it or not they are very necessary. It also doesn't draw in new fans. Baseball is fucked when the crowd who is currently 30-45 dies off. That generation is the last one that grew up loving baseball.

Originally Posted by uro55

I'd also say there's an argument to be made that it's not totally, or as much, the decline of baseball, but the rise of other things.

It can be both.

But it's the decline in overall interest that hurts it. People spend entire Sundays watching the NFL all day. How many people watch MLB games that their favorite team doesn't play in?

[recentlyJTR41]

Yeah, Fox ruins baseball. They ruin all sports broadcasts. Joe Buck is just the worst. I really wish NBC or ABC would pick up the playoffs.

[rustysurf83]

Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41

Yeah, Fox ruins baseball. They ruin all sports broadcasts. Joe Buck is just the worst. I really wish NBC or ABC would pick up the playoffs.

Except...people are willing to watch the NFL on Fox...

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin

Lots of factors.

Most important is baseball is run by a bunch of old out of touch geezers. Replay is just making its way into the game and it's implementation has been nothing short of awful. Being slow to adapt has been such a hindrance to the sport. It's also the only pro sport where the playing field is different dimensions for each team, and each league has different rules.

Speed of the game with batters stepping out of the box and pitchers stepping off the mound. That really needs to stop to speed up games. A faster game would equal a more exciting product.

Salary floor and salary cap are in great need with the MLB. The NFL is great because any team from any market can win a championship. In the MLB sure the Rays and Twins can win a World Series but they are always at a huge disadvantage to a team like the Yankees that can spend mind boggling amounts more. Parity just doesn't exist in the MLB like it does in other sports.

The last big factor is it's hard to play baseball growing up. Not a lot of public fields. The best athletes as a result wind up in the NFL or NBA and not the MLB.

Zepp I think you nailed it.

The fact that the NHL and NBA, for example, have SO MANY highlights on YouTube. This just happened a couple hours ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgLFBgMYtHs

And the NHL gets it RIGHT up. People upload that stuff from back in the day and the NHL and NBA aren't pulling it down due to copyright claims. Look up almost any classic NHL moment in the past 30 years and there will be a great clip on YouTube. It's easily accessible.

Examples:

http://youtu.be/tRoNqiiY6Lg?t=1m21s (as much as I hate the Wings)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7f7cpoJz_s

It took MLB until literally months ago to allow clips like Bonds's 756th to get up on YouTube without pulling it down. It's a league that's just out of touch with modern sports.

I think the salary cap is another major issue. Another is longevity of stars. By the time guys like Ryan Howard or Pujols become household names, they stop being great again. I completely disagree that they need "swag" or whatever someone said, I think they just need guys like Trout to be great year in and year out.

I don't know, I think it's just a game behind the times, there's no marketable stars, games take forever, and the amount of time it takes up in the year is absolutely absurd.

162 games? That's way way way too many. Baseball is basically year round. They don't give people 1) time to miss it, or 2) the ability to believe any one regular season game actually has that much impact. Football is easy because it's once (ok 3 times but, basically once) a week, people can get excited about a matchup, sit down on the weekend and then it's over until the next time. Hockey and basketball at least have breaks where it's fun because it's kind of like, "Oh nice! There's a game on tonight!" But baseball is literally every freaking day for, what, 6 or 7 months? Then the playoffs, then just a couple months later it's "holy shit pitchers and catchers report omg". It's TOO MUCH.

[Brohan_Santana]

Ratings are down on the "major networks" because the games are carried on secondary network channels


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Lee3691

I am one of those that once loved baseball, but now its a sport I don't follow nearly as closely. In fact when my team is eliminated from playoff consideration, I basically stop following the sport. It's not just that the games are longer, but it just takes so much time to follow baseball closely with all of the games. It's crazy that the sport that will have more people attending it, and the highest paid athletes is going to be a semi fringe sport. I know this sounds ridiculous, but what if the games were shortened to 6 innings? Quicker games and you wouldn't have as many of the pitching issues of the last 25 years.

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

this is 100 percent me...i remember watching the 02 world series and being on the edge of my seat. I now have not watched a playoff game not involving the Yankees in years

I'm right there with you guys. I haven't followed MLB really at all in the past 4-5 years. I might be able to name 20 guys in the majors anymore, and I'd have to really, really try to even get to that number.

I went to one of Paul Konerko's last home games, because Paulie was a hero of mine growing up, but not because I really wanted to go to a Sox game. I used to go to 10 or so games per year, and in the last couple years (like 3-4 years), even with FREE scout seats right behind the dugout to literally whatever game I wanted, I have only been to two games, including this last one that was just for Paulie.

[YankeesDMB41]

Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana

Ratings are down on the "major networks" because the games are carried on secondary network channels


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

then explain why the world series ratings are down over the last 10 years?

[recentlyJTR41]

I said "swag" as in to attract young viewers. I'm completely against it though.

I think Trout should be the face of the MLB but I dont think you can guarantee greatness year after year because that's just baseball. It's so much harder to do that in baseball than the NBA or NFL. Pujols was once the best hitter on earth now he's not even the best on his team. You can't say the same for Peyton Manning ya know.

I do think the season shoul be cut by about 20 games or so but you'll never convince MLB to do this because that's losing millions of dollars. I don't think baseball can ever have urgency because that's not how the sport works. You can play two baseball games in a day if you have to. You can't play two football games in a week. Even Sunday to Thursday is pushing it. But I will say this, when it does have urgency like the playoffs or WC games, it is more tense than an NFL game imo.

[JRS1386]

Baseball has become boring and pretty predictable. There also rarely seems to be a team that the nation gets behind for one reason or another if that makes any sense having trouble wording what I mean

[UNC41]

Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin

But it's the decline in overall interest that hurts it. People spend entire Sundays watching the NFL all day. How many people watch MLB games that their favorite team doesn't play in?

You can follow the NFL in essentially 16 Sundays. MLB requires a continual six month commitment for the regular season. That is a ton to ask for a sports league that has gotten tougher to watch on TV over the past decade.

[YankeesDMB41]

Yankees in 01 and Red Sox in 04 are the last two teams that had national support IMO

[junior94]

Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin

Lots of factors.

Most important is baseball is run by a bunch of old out of touch geezers. Replay is just making its way into the game and it's implementation has been nothing short of awful. Being slow to adapt has been such a hindrance to the sport. It's also the only pro sport where the playing field is different dimensions for each team, and each league has different rules.

Speed of the game with batters stepping out of the box and pitchers stepping off the mound. That really needs to stop to speed up games. A faster game would equal a more exciting product.

Salary floor and salary cap are in great need with the MLB. The NFL is great because any team from any market can win a championship. In the MLB sure the Rays and Twins can win a World Series but they are always at a huge disadvantage to a team like the Yankees that can spend mind boggling amounts more. Parity just doesn't exist in the MLB like it does in other sports.

The last big factor is it's hard to play baseball growing up. Not a lot of public fields. The best athletes as a result wind up in the NFL or NBA and not the MLB.

While I don't deny that there most definitely are ways in which individual games can cut out certain details to speed things up, much like the inverse of the concept of games going longer because of instant replay, I'm not really sure it would wind up making THAT much of a difference. I mean, those who complained against replay from the very start that it would make already long games that much longer, but really we're talking about maybe like 10 minutes, generally speaking, not much when you're already in the area of two and a half hours.

Now, would it be nice if existing friggin rules were finally enforced and players were made to stay in the box longer and pitchers throw quicker? (not to mention as I've mentioned before elsewhere, managers shouldn't need to physically go to the mound every pitching change) Sure, but all in all, I doubt it would really cut much more than that same 10-15 minute range off the games as a whole.

[JRS1386]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

Yankees in 01 and Red Sox in 04 are the last two teams that had national support IMO

Agreed I think if the Cubs ever put anything together they could get it too.

[SqueeBaBooSquee]

Originally Posted by YankeesDMB41

Over the last 10 years, ratings for primetime games and the world series have been steadily going down, attendance as well. Many have argued that MLB has been surpased by the NBA as the #2 sport in America. Do you think America has lost its interest in baseball? If so why? I really have no real explanation for why this is happening. Maybe it's the lack of stars? Back in the day, Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Jeter, Pedro, and A-Rod were household names. Your mom knew who these guys were. Kershaw, Trout, Mccuttchen, and Harvey are great players, but are they superstars? Is Kershaw a household name? IMO no. Is it the lack of offense? I want opinions, what does everyone think?

Hmmm.... so essentially ratings and attendance have been dropping since the crackdown on roids?

[JRS1386]

Would love salary caps and floors to happen