** Official Obama Thread ** - Page 897 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 02-12-2011, 01:04 PM   #26881
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Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmbfan1000 View Post
Maybe, but it also makes her a big fucking hypocrite.
If she was respectful of Presidents she didn't care for, then I'm fine with her saying that.

If not, then I agree with you.
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  • Old 02-12-2011, 07:08 PM   #26882
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbfan1000 View Post
    There is a perception that many Democrats don’t care for the country, the Obama worldwide apology tour did little to help this perception by the way.
    This, again, is one of those areas that I am referring to where I believe Republicans attempt to vilify democrats through drastic over simplification. This issue of "Love for country" truly infuriates me.

    Honestly, this makes me so hot I don't even know how to express it...but to think that Democrats take such an active role in government, such a role in protecting those less fortunate than them, take an active role in shaping policy for this country and at the same time don't love the country is absolute bullshit.

    Everything Democrats fight for, everything they stand for, everything I stand for, is about making this country the best it possibly could be. To say that Democrats don't love the country, is nothing more than a copout by the right to avoid debate and rationale argument over issues...while also setting up a fire wall for themselves to claim that anything they do or believe in is about love for country.

    This idea, this self fulfilling bullshit spread by the right that only one side loves this country and is willing to protect it needs to end. At some point, they need to wake up and realize that the reason we disagree with you is because we love our country, and we believe our views will lead to a better and stronger version of the country then yours.

    Obama wasn't apologizing for America, he was apologizing for specific policies that came across to the rest of the world as oppressive and filled with hate for cultures different than our own.

    Quite simply, no rationale discussion can occur in politics if one side thinks the otherside doesn't love this country....and this is exactly what those that try to play that card about love for country weant. They want to shut down debate. They don't want to have to defend their point of you....just wrap yourself in your flag, and say whatever bullshit you want and hide in that flag...all it takes is putting a flag on your car, and you love the country more then I do.

    Why the hell do you think we engage in politics? Why 60 million of us go out and vote? Why were some of us so enamored by the hope Obama offered? It was a hope for a vision of this country that we felt and feel makes the USA a better and stronger place.

    So, next time you are talking to someone and they say, well, Democrats don't love this country as much as I do...tell them, to think long and hard about that. Think long and hard about what Democrats spend so much time fighting for.

    It's one thing to argue that Democrats make the country less safe. That's fair...I think the Republicans make the country less safe. But to argue that we don't love this country as much as you is complete and total bullshit....and it does make me angry, and it should make you angry too...it should make us all angry when we hear people claim only a certain point of view means they love this country while others don't.

    I despise conservative policy. I think their foreign policy makes us less safe, I think their economic policies have proven to make the economy less stable and therefore less safe....but I have never and will never say that Republicans don't want the same thing I do...to have the best country for all of us. We just have very different ideals of how to go about it.

    Again, we talk about the difference between the parties, and it comes back to what I said before...Democrats like to argue specifics and details, while Republicans like to generalize and simplify things....and that is what this issue is all about. Democrats don't believe simply flying a flag on your house (or watching it torn to shreads hanging on an antenna) proves you love your country. We don't believe that symbolic gestures alone prove anything. We believe you prove your love for the country through actions and involvement....and you or Fox News, or Sarah Palin, or whomever honestly believes that Democrats don't love our country can't take that away from us.

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    Old 02-12-2011, 07:22 PM   #26883
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbfan1000 View Post
    . I am not a racist, never have been a racist, and I don’t believe that most Americans are racist. Sure, there are some in every crowd but by and large, no. I think this incident spoke more to Obama’s attitude towards the rest of us than it did the actual incident itself.
    Topline is I don't think that most Americans are racist...but I absolutely do think most Americans, including myself, are prejudice. Whether it comes across as being a little more nercous on a dark street at night when there is a black man walking your way, or simply ignoring the fact that where you are born and who you are born to more often then not tells you where you are going to end up...it's prejudice. And quite honestly, I think our understanding as a society that we have been prejudice and do have prejudice has allowed civil rights to come as far as it has.

    HOWEVER, I do believe there is one issue that if not driven by pure racisim, it's something close...is the whole Birther movement. There is something I believe inherently evil and incidious behind that movement where they choose to ignore established fact including a published birth record and two hawaiian newspapers posting birth announcements 3 days after Obama's birth 40 some odd years before he'd even been in politics. I think the birther issue is driven by, and has expanded and gained traction, purely based on the color of Obama's skin. Quite simply, if all the established facts remain the same and we are talking about a white president with a father who lived in Ireland...instead of a black whose father lived in Kenya, this is not an issue.

    When so many facts are blatantly ignored at will, there is something dark behind that...food for thought.
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    Old 02-12-2011, 07:30 PM   #26884
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Democrats love America. That's why they reject the founding philosophy of limited government and want to turn us into a European welfare state. I kid. Kind of. :haha
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    Old 02-12-2011, 07:38 PM   #26885
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    #26882

    Good post.
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    Old 02-12-2011, 07:40 PM   #26886
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    But really I reject just about left wing/democratic but most of them don't hate America. Of course you have your loons that do, but for the most part I wouldn't say that. It's kind of like how all Republicans aren't rich white dudes who hate minorities and the gays.

    The stereotyping on both sides is kind of silly.
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    Old 02-12-2011, 07:43 PM   #26887
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    But really I reject just about left wing/democratic but most of them don't hate America. Of course you have your loons that do, but for the most part I wouldn't say that. It's kind of like how all Republicans aren't rich white dudes who hate minorities and the gays.

    The stereotyping on both sides is kind of silly.
    This....
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    Old 02-12-2011, 08:01 PM   #26888
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    Republicans aren't rich white dudes who hate minorities and the gays.
    .
    Correct, anyone who claims this stereotype about republicans is smoking something.

    Repulicans are EITHER rich white dudes OR they hate minorities and gays...rarely both. I kid. Kind of. :haha
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    Old 02-12-2011, 08:24 PM   #26889
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    On another note, I just met Jeff Coffin at a jazz festival at a local community college. Really nice guy, after the show he came out to sign CD's and take pictures, really approachable.
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    Old 02-12-2011, 10:15 PM   #26890
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbfan1000 View Post
    I just met Jeff Coffin...Really nice guy.
    Must be a Democrat.

    Seriously though, that's cool and good to hear.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 07:30 AM   #26891
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Bluecow2 View Post
    Topline is I don't think that most Americans are racist...but I absolutely do think most Americans, including myself, are prejudice. Whether it comes across as being a little more nercous on a dark street at night when there is a black man walking your way, or simply ignoring the fact that where you are born and who you are born to more often then not tells you where you are going to end up...it's prejudice. And quite honestly, I think our understanding as a society that we have been prejudice and do have prejudice has allowed civil rights to come as far as it has.

    HOWEVER, I do believe there is one issue that if not driven by pure racisim, it's something close...is the whole Birther movement. There is something I believe inherently evil and incidious behind that movement where they choose to ignore established fact including a published birth record and two hawaiian newspapers posting birth announcements 3 days after Obama's birth 40 some odd years before he'd even been in politics. I think the birther issue is driven by, and has expanded and gained traction, purely based on the color of Obama's skin. Quite simply, if all the established facts remain the same and we are talking about a white president with a father who lived in Ireland...instead of a black whose father lived in Kenya, this is not an issue.

    When so many facts are blatantly ignored at will, there is something dark behind that...food for thought.
    I agree with all of this. Most of what is blown up into full-out racism is more prejudice, preference, and the erosion of insularity in the modern world.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the core of the Birther movement is fueled by racism or something damn close to it. Its not racism from a "this guy is black" sense. Its more of a racism/bigotry hybrid -- "This person is not like us, so he cannot lead us." Which, in many ways, is worse.

    Not all Birthers are racist. Some are simply unintelligent. Others conspiracy freaks. Almost all are politically retarded (by that I mean they have no clue how government functions or politics work, not that they are stupid because of their views).

    The one common thread is hatred. And if there was a left-wing equivalent I'd shit down their necks just as quickly as I do Birthers. All Birthers are conservative, but I do not hold Birthers as representatives of the conservative movement or blame them for the sins of the crazy. I do, however, get supremely pissed and have no problem slapping the right when elected conservative officials refuse to discount, dismiss, and belittle the movement when asked directly.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 08:49 AM   #26892
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by bbianca1982 View Post
    I agree with all of this. Most of what is blown up into full-out racism is more prejudice, preference, and the erosion of insularity in the modern world.

    There is no doubt in my mind that the core of the Birther movement is fueled by racism or something damn close to it. Its not racism from a "this guy is black" sense. Its more of a racism/bigotry hybrid -- "This person is not like us, so he cannot lead us." Which, in many ways, is worse.

    Not all Birthers are racist. Some are simply unintelligent. Others conspiracy freaks. Almost all are politically retarded (by that I mean they have no clue how government functions or politics work, not that they are stupid because of their views).

    The one common thread is hatred. And if there was a left-wing equivalent I'd shit down their necks just as quickly as I do Birthers. All Birthers are conservative, but I do not hold Birthers as representatives of the conservative movement or blame them for the sins of the crazy. I do, however, get supremely pissed and have no problem slapping the right when elected conservative officials refuse to discount, dismiss, and belittle the movement when asked directly.
    9/11 was an inside job says hello.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 08:54 AM   #26893
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    You gotta give Bill Maher some credit. He doesn't sugar coat anything. He says exactly what he means, and I do admire that about him.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...elieve_it.html

    But you gotta wonder... for all those lefty's bashing the right for not believing Obama is a Christian, here's one of your own saying it, so let's see you jump down Maher's throat about it.


    I won't be surprised to hear crickets...
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    Old 02-13-2011, 09:02 AM   #26894
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    I think most people are more open to debating whether he is Christian or not rather than whether he is American.

    Quite frankly I don't care if he's Christian. I hope he's atheist.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 09:20 AM   #26895
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    You gotta give Bill Maher some credit. He doesn't sugar coat anything. He says exactly what he means, and I do admire that about him.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...elieve_it.html

    But you gotta wonder... for all those lefty's bashing the right for not believing Obama is a Christian, here's one of your own saying it, so let's see you jump down Maher's throat about it.


    I won't be surprised to hear crickets...
    There is a huge difference between arguing he is agnostic and arguing he is a Muslim. And if you knew anything about Bill Maher, you'd realize how much he bashes organized religion week in and week out (trust me, he does, I watch him every week). Therefore, you can't take what he says completely seriously. His whole basis for his argument is that Obama's mother was secular. Well then, Obama spent a lot of time in a church just to be putting on a facade.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 09:28 AM   #26896
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaxarado View Post
    There is a huge difference between arguing he is agnostic and arguing he is a Muslim. And if you knew anything about Bill Maher, you'd realize how much he bashes organized religion week in and week out (trust me, he does, I watch him every week). Therefore, you can't take what he says completely seriously. His whole basis for his argument is that Obama's mother was secular. Well then, Obama spent a lot of time in a church just to be putting on a facade.
    Either way he's saying something he isn't to win votes. And that something is a particular something that a lot of people in this country hold in high esteem.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 09:31 AM   #26897
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cruscott35 View Post
    Either way he's saying something he isn't to win votes. And that something is a particular something that a lot of people in this country hold in high esteem.
    This according to Bill Maher, one of the most anti-religion people involved in political discussion. :BANG

    If his name was Bill Williams he wouldn't have to answer all this dumb shit. Its been pathetic and its getting worse. The people in this country are so fucking dumb sometimes.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 10:42 AM   #26898
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    You gotta give Bill Maher some credit. He doesn't sugar coat anything. He says exactly what he means, and I do admire that about him.

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/vid...elieve_it.html

    But you gotta wonder... for all those lefty's bashing the right for not believing Obama is a Christian, here's one of your own saying it, so let's see you jump down Maher's throat about it.


    I won't be surprised to hear crickets...
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cruscott35 View Post
    Either way he's saying something he isn't to win votes. And that something is a particular something that a lot of people in this country hold in high esteem.
    I think he's sort of like how I was from 0-18. I was raised in a church going family, but never talked about God outside of it really. There was a strong religious tradition, but it was not a very strong belief system. I think that's where he is, religious by tradition, maybe somewhat skeptical or agnostic, but still Christian sort of and still believes in God. So is he lying? Not really, just maybe doing enough to avoid most controversy about it.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 10:56 AM   #26899
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    I think Obama is a Christian. Just believes in a really, really left wing version of it.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 12:06 PM   #26900
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaxarado View Post
    This according to Bill Maher, one of the most anti-religion people involved in political discussion. :BANG

    If his name was Bill Williams he wouldn't have to answer all this dumb shit. Its been pathetic and its getting worse. The people in this country are so fucking dumb sometimes.
    And according to the other side too..

    http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/...gi?article=384
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    Old 02-13-2011, 12:16 PM   #26901
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cruscott35 View Post
    And according to the other side too..

    http://www.anncoulter.com/cgi-local/...gi?article=384
    I've read that article before.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 12:41 PM   #26902
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by dmbfan1000 View Post
    On another note, I just met Jeff Coffin at a jazz festival at a local community college. Really nice guy, after the show he came out to sign CD's and take pictures, really approachable.
    That's awesome. I met him at the Gorge two years ago. Very nice guy.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 12:44 PM   #26903
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cruscott35 View Post
    9/11 was an inside job says hello.
    Those people are in no way liberals. They're idiots. Completely apolitical.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 01:00 PM   #26904
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by AJF_41 View Post
    That's awesome. I met him at the Gorge two years ago. Very nice guy.
    I guess I shouldn't be so surprised about it but I can't get over how nice of a guy he really was. The first picture we took was blurry so when I noticed it I went back over and asked about getting another and he saidd sure we hang out here all night and take pitures if you want, and he was serious about it. He was moving till everyone got their fill.

    Also, I asked him about the dates and he said they would be out on the 15th. I didnt ask about locations, I didnt want to make it too ackward, but I did ask if he would be about an hour north of here (alpine) in July and he said he would be somewhere around here in july or so.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 01:09 PM   #26905
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaxarado View Post
    There is a huge difference between arguing he is agnostic and arguing he is a Muslim. And if you knew anything about Bill Maher, you'd realize how much he bashes organized religion week in and week out (trust me, he does, I watch him every week). Therefore, you can't take what he says completely seriously. His whole basis for his argument is that Obama's mother was secular. Well then, Obama spent a lot of time in a church just to be putting on a facade.
    I know the guy, and I don't like his rhetoric. He's to liberalism what Beck is to conservatism. But at least they're both honest and say what they mean and think without hiding behind political correctness. I don't see what difference it makes whether it's someone saying he's muslim or agnostic. Both sides in this case are calling him a liar.

    For the record, I'm going to believe Obama is Christian. But if Maher's right the only thing that would make me mad is that Obama isn't honest about it. The notion that it's ok because it's politics, As that other guy said, is stupid.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 01:13 PM   #26906
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty View Post
    I think most people are more open to debating whether he is Christian or not rather than whether he is American.

    Quite frankly I don't care if he's Christian. I hope he's atheist.
    I couldn't care less either. As long as he's honest about what he is. I'm assuming he is, but I wouldn't be shocked if it came out he wasn't and said he was for votes either. The guy is a politician which means he knows how to lie.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 01:51 PM   #26907
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by RobbtheRevelatr View Post
    I know the guy, and I don't like his rhetoric. He's to liberalism what Beck is to conservatism. But at least they're both honest and say what they mean and think without hiding behind political correctness. I don't see what difference it makes whether it's someone saying he's muslim or agnostic. Both sides in this case are calling him a liar.

    For the record, I'm going to believe Obama is Christian. But if Maher's right the only thing that would make me mad is that Obama isn't honest about it. The notion that it's ok because it's politics, As that other guy said, is stupid.
    A few things:

    1) Beck is not honest. He is a phony. Its all an act. And it all started when he went to Fox News.

    2) There is a huge difference between arguing that hes Agnostic and Muslim. If you don't think that there is open discrimination towards Muslims in this country, I don't know what to tell you because you are sadly mistaken. Its okay to hate Muslims in this country. (And P.S. Saying hes a Muslim goes along with the "hes not American and trying to destroy the U.S. in the name of Allah" thinking).

    3) The President has said he is a Christian. He has attended church for years (remember the whole preacher controversy? Yet the same people were claiming hes a Muslim....:confused). As I have stated, if his name was Bill Williams people wouldn't question his word. They'd take him for it. See post 2 for why they don't.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 02:15 PM   #26908
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Birthers are dumb people. But people believe all kinds of dumb things when it comes to politics. I imagine if you polled the American people on a variety of things you'd get a whole slew of horrifyingly dumb results. When you have a society that knows more about reality television than they do even basic facts about America's founding, you have severe education issues.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 02:17 PM   #26909
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB View Post
    Birthers are dumb people. But people believe all kinds of dumb things when it comes to politics. I imagine if you polled the American people on a variety of things you'd get a whole slew of horrifyingly dumb results. When you have a society that knows more about reality television than they do even basic facts about America's founding, you have severe education issues.
    I agree with this ten fold. And its pretty sad.
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    Old 02-13-2011, 02:31 PM   #26910
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    Re: ** Official Premier Barack Hussein Obama, Nobel Peace Prize Winner (2009), Thread

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vaxarado View Post
    A few things:

    1) Beck is not honest. He is a phony. Its all an act. And it all started when he went to Fox News.

    2) There is a huge difference between arguing that hes Agnostic and Muslim. If you don't think that there is open discrimination towards Muslims in this country, I don't know what to tell you because you are sadly mistaken. Its okay to hate Muslims in this country. (And P.S. Saying hes a Muslim goes along with the "hes not American and trying to destroy the U.S. in the name of Allah" thinking).

    3) The President has said he is a Christian. He has attended church for years (remember the whole preacher controversy? Yet the same people were claiming hes a Muslim....:confused). As I have stated, if his name was Bill Williams people wouldn't question his word. They'd take him for it. See post 2 for why they don't.
    See the Ann Coulter article. That 'church' isn't christian.
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